anono- back in ukraine 2

[anono]

funny thing happened the other day. met a guy i ran into at the internet club i use. he told me a story about this other guy he knows, met up with a working girl for the better part of the day. later, this same guy has a friend who tells him he has two ladies with him from an agency, would you like to join us? the other guy joins them and who is there? the working girl he had spent the day with....

this is a guy who has been here a year. his experiences mirror mine. the guys who come here for 2-3 weeks and think they 'know" these woman are in la-la land. the learning curve is much different when you are basically living here, day in and day out. you see a LOT more than the guys here for only a few weeks, if that long.

i think the best way to meet women here is by chance, not the agencies. with the exception of a few, i think most agency women are either professional daters, women looking for what they can get out of most men. these same women may sing a different tune if they meet a man they really like, but as albert posted in his TR (who cares what section it is in, i mean, does it really matter?) about the guys who went to a social, the women call at 10-11 wanting to go to the disco for free drinks. you cannot talk at a disco. the music is always too loud. it is for drinking and partying, the women generally among themselves. you are there simply to pay for it. i blame both the men and the women, but i'm not sure if it was the egg or the chicken first.

we american men are so willing to spend $$ and the women know it. they act like they could "give it up" and never do, no matter what you spend.

i have seen this, heard about it, witnessed it.

makes me realize all the more how good i seem to have it with "j".

this guy also told me about a woman i had met, he had met and a frined had met, all within a week's time. this particular lady and her friend who generally tag along refuse to eat at anything less than a premier restaurant. after a second or third date, this lady sent a sms message to this guy "if you want me to spend the night with you, you must buy me a laptop computer". i asked her about this when i met up with her and her friend. i had my friend in tow with me and when we met, it was funny because we all knew one another. anyway, when i told this lady i knew of this SMS. she tells me, the man only wanted sex, my mother told me to send this SMS. she said he would never contact me again.  i said, ok, but what if he would have agreed? i do not want to talk about this any longer, was the reply.

i am going to copy and post his email to me..it says it better than i can:

 


The Saga continues in the Great Casino of Love... swimming with sharks, seeking treasure.*
 
So I had met Natasha due to my buddies mix up in sms'ing and inviting the wrong Natasha to a restuarant by mistake <he never planned on seeing her again> (she had demanded a laptop to spend the night, 3rd date situation) <he has the sms to prove this>.  Natasha had a friend she wanted me to meet... so we met... and that meeting was the night before last... and I outlined part of this story and conversation in my first email "Love Lotto 101 - Moments In the Life" email...
 
    Then I meet another American buddy on the same wife hunting mission, another well seasoned and experienced pro... (me, anono)
We met by chance at the calling center... we have a walk and a chat strolling down Kraschetyk... he says "Hey, I have a girl I am meeting at the Metro, she's bringing a friend... want to hang out?".  I said "sure".
 
    Low and behold up walk and appear Natasha and Alona from last night, and Natasha from the night before (She was with my buddy *** that night, and last night with Alona and I, and now... !?!?!? I knew something was up last night when she was asking for translation of an SMS on her $500 Nokia mobile phone of an english written SMS addressing her as "My Kitty" and asking what the word "award" meant....).
 
    In any case, it was a laughable, bizzarre situation... you see, both my American buddies are on my "distribution" or heads up and oddities mailing list.... So they had READ and KNEW of this (My American buddy with me last night) JUST BEFORE we UNKNOWINGLY (unknowing to him as to the "character" of these girls, and unknowing to me that we were or I was by coincidence meeting them AGAIN - 3rd night in a row).
 
    How FUNNY!.... But the Love Lotto 101 keeps getting more hilarious, bizzarre, and plain twisted...
 
     My date already planned (she had just returned from a week in Crimea with a LOVELY tan, radiant smile, ocean reflecting in her eyes, and a very sexy new hair style) arrives, and she joins us (she's a great girl, university student, ALL PERFECT highest MARKS - I met her on a tram or BUS TRAIN in Kiev).  She is the one STANDING next to me in the photos....
 
     I had explained to Natasha and Alona that I had SERIOUS business to attend to with my interpreter.  My Terp (interpreter) was assigned by a wealthy Canadian (idiot) lawyer to go and check out his 25% investment and ownership of some SUPER high tech, but VIRTUALLY empty nightclub here in Kiev (we all got FREE admission - sweet to take photos, head count, and give a full report from customer service, to the kind of people in the joint, etc.  Me, my American buddy, and Natasha, Alona, and MY DATE, all went to this club together (we had my other Super Fluent Eng. Terp visit with us at Chouteau, where the photos were taken, upstairs in the more private part of the place - she's not in the photo, but is a level 5 fluent in English and a pro working for European Connections now and the U.N. (next year)!!!.
 
     I for one, was flattered and in bliss as we were in the company of two pro interpreters, and 3 girls in tow... not a bad scene doods.... of course, we had some moments like this last week as well.... (see the mafia license plate pics in previous mails... Pisage - the Street of Dreams)  <My other buddy has a TON o PICS, videos, and stories that defy the mundane mind and imagination ... cool thing is... it was reality... I couldn't have written a more bizzarre and comical script... >
 
     O.K.  SO,,,  Alona asked my interpreter what was up with her investigative assignment as we were there doing our thing.  When informed of our employ by some wealthy lawman in Canada... she immediately expired in exasperation "OH YULIA!!! WHERE IS HE!!!  WHERE IS HE!!! I WANT TO MEET HIM!!!"  She exclaimed she needed a man with money (can you say MEGA MONEY) for her future children, so that they would live a hard life like her (and the other Ukrainian kids???).   When Yulia explained that this Idiot was already married with 2 kids... She despaired, sighed, and cried "WHY OH WHY are all theY TAKEN!!!".
 
      I suggested she get a job as a bank teller  
 
           As for my night... I left my interpreter as she finished photographing the near empty but fabously super high tech cutting edge tech nightclub for a local McDonalds with my Tram Bus Girl Date...  She's a simple Ukrainian girl, super smart, fluent english speaking, and geniune soul...  We stood in the McDrive Thru, and ordered a burger and some tea (freaky aye?), and sat under the night sky on the Micky D patio, drinking tea, eating a burger, on freshly rained patio furniture... a table of 3 other Ukrainian girls, all in miniskirts sat near us... (Natasha and Alone absolutely refused to eat at anything less then Premium Restuarants... even refused the Ole' Standby The Ukrainian Home Kitchen!!! <BITCHES!!!>).
 
        And my date and I talked... about the simple joys and passions in life, her observations, and mine, and pondered the future together...
 
      Meantime my interpreter finished recording and noting what disaster and serious marketing nightmare her bossman's club was in (actually, the mob sold this sucker swampland in Florida, errr,,, Ukraine).
 
       Then we all dissappeared into the land of dreams... and the night turned into day...
 
as the moon winked at me over Kiev...
 
so here it is folks.....  his decription is accurate..swimming with sharks..

[jb]

Anono,

Your friend's email is very revealing.  It speaks volumes about the type of young woman the average AM will be in contact with as he stumbles blindly along in a foreign world at the mercy of these MOB agencies, especially when he ventures off the beaten path.

We have a name for women like these, they're  called "Trailer Park Queens". They can be found on any given Friday night socalizing with the other POWs (Puntas On Welfare) in the local night spots, hoping desperately for some rich man to stumble into their life.  They are young, many are quite pretty, all have poor educations, most work in low jobs, all will have made at least one huge mistake in the men they take up with, (drinkers, abusers, etc.), many may have a small child at home with g'ma, they are all fixated on the physical/material world, while all would pretend outrage at the idea, most WILL sleep with you if there were a little gift involved, and none of them have more than two working brain cells in their heads.  If there were marriage agencies operating here for rich, middle aged, Middle Eastern Arabs looking for young pretty wives, every one of these women would be signed up, willing to marry and relocate in a heartbeat.

If you see any of these tendencies in your FSU cuties, you may be fishing in the wrong pond.

A couple of years ago our fellow member, Donna Pedro, warned about this type of girl, she called them "landfill girls".  I recall she was blasted for using such plain words to describe bad choices.  But there in that email, you have another prime example of what's wrong with the picture of middle aged AM visiting the FSU with visions of recapturing  his lost or misspent youth by coming home with a trophy wife.

It's really a sad commentary on the objectives of a lot of men.

[jb]

Just one further thought...

I remember a few comments on the "other" board from Randy2 from years ago.  Randy is a divorce lawyer from up Oregon way, and has made his living in that trade for many years.  This isn't a direct quote, but the gist is correct:  He said: (or words to this effect) When you get married, that's going to be the best day of your marriage, everything goes downhill from that moment.  The lesson to be learned from that statement seems to me, that whatever traits you see in a woman, both good and bad, will be what you have to live with until either you die a happy and fulfilled old man, or the whole thing unravels in a nasty divorce.  If you preceive any of the following; greedy, self centered, unaffectionate, rude, demanding, materialistic, unhappy with the way her life has gone, or any combination of the above, run for your life.

Do not, repeat, NOT, let a pretty face and hard body influence your decision to marry, she will not change for the better, she will only get worse, and as her ability in English improves, the worst will be amplified exponentially.  Always remember, no matter how pretty she is, there's a man somewhere, who's tired of putting up with her sh*t.

[anono]

i remeber ranfy and his advice is solid. i think this is wgere julia excels. she is none of the bad traits above. she is,as my friend who runs astologicial charts, an "impassioned angel". i take everything i read with a grainof salt, but if i posrted my chart, you would be able to see the similarities. some of it decribes me to a "t".

i am going back to kharkov on the express train on wednesday and will stay in kharkov until at least sunday. i am going to get my terp and sit down with julia and ask her some important questions and see if she understands the advebture she is about to embark on should i ask her to come to the usa. i am also going to ask her f she would want to live in ukraine, as it is an option i am considering for various reasons.

if i was able to ride my MC, maybe skydive and had my car here, i could maybe live here..not sure but it sometimes occurs to me.

julia is an angel compared to most of these women i have seen and met...

[jb]

Please, Robert,

Base your decisions on something more solid than voo-doo, astrology, and magic,,, these won't serve the purpose.  In your heart of hearts you know that stuff is bunk, don't build a defense around BS.  Hard, cold logic is what you need right now.  You are 49, she is 23 or 24, you might as well come from different planets.  Make damned sure she doesn't have some bad habits that will drive you to drink later, and make sure you really love the woman for who she is, not what you hope she will become.  Which, IMHO, would be a huge mistake.

I'm not saying she isn't a great gal, I'm just saying you need to latch onto a grounding rod and pray for no electrical storms, otherwise you gonna get fried.

To those who thought I was too hard on the newbie, you've just seen what I can say to a friend.  Back off, get smart, get wise, and don't let a new set of tits screw up your mental process.

[wxman]

That's an eye opener! It amazes me that any man would fall for that and actually would buy a woman a laptop, give money, etc; just for sex. But I'm sure she got it from some guy. Of course these same guys would probably for the same story from women in their own country. A fool is a fool, no matter where they are from.

I'm glad your friend didn't fall for that crap.

I'm sure this woman asking for a computer has many viruses in her laptop, and we ain't talking computers.  

[jb]

wxman,

Grasshopper, you are becoming wise beyond words.....

[Turboguy]

We have a name for women like these, they're called "Trailer Park Queens". They can be found on any given Friday night socalizing with the other POWs (Puntas On Welfare) in the local night spots, hoping desperately for some rich man to stumble into their life. They are young, many are quite pretty, all have poor educations, most work in low jobs, all will have made at least one huge mistake in the men they take up with, (drinkers, abusers, etc.), many may have a small child at home with g'ma, they are all fixated on the physical/material world, while all would pretend outrage at the idea, most WILL sleep with you if there were a little gift involved, and none of them have more than two working brain cells in their heads. If there were marriage agencies operating here for rich, middle aged, Middle Eastern Arabs looking for young pretty wives, every one of these women would be signed up, willing to marry and relocate in a heartbeat.

Darn JB, do you have a hidden camera looking over my shoulder when I am with my gal.  Now that you have given me all the anwers I know to have the right kind of life I have to trade the palace in on a 60 footer in our local trailer park.    Humm, where would I be without all this good info.  Really apprecaite it. 

 

[jb]

If the shoe fits....

[jb]

All these guys who take my comments so personally, and need to get sooooo offended,,, need to re-examine their own situations.  I didn't create it, I just pointed it out.  You want to marry a girl who fits the profile??? Go ahead, just don't come back later and say you weren't warned.

I feel sorry for the "one week wonders", for they know not what they do.

[Turboguy]

If the shoe fits....

Yep, 10 1/2 D,   Yep, Yep,   Young, pretty, one bad romance with a Russian guy, Yep, Yep,  complained about her world today  (no water)  YEP, Low job, worse than that she has no job now.  Yep, Fixated with the finer things in life. (asked me if I had hot water most of the time)   Yep, two working brain cells, one over on the left medula that keeps her breathing, one over on the subdurmal cortex that keeps her drinking champagne.    Yep, a gift and she will hop in the sack.  Yep, only takes a kiss and a bottle of champagne.   Worst part too this is the one everyone said I was crazy for doing a K-1 with because we had not made love, now all it takes is a half bottle of champagne.  Humm    Do I get a nice new Skyline mobile home or go for a used one.  I would hate to spoil her but the shoe really feels good on my foot. 

 

[jb]

Ya know, TurboGuy...

You are way too sensitive..

Perhaps some of this hit a tad too close to home.  Do you see yourself as a contestant in this? Seeking a young trophy bride whom you know so little about, in a land beyond the pale?

Whatever are your faults, they will catch up to you in the long run.  This is a bed you made, not me.  I hope you paid close attention to TigerPaws on pre-nups and hiding assets because you are not getting married for all the right reasons.  If you try to screw her over, I hope she succeeds in taking you to the cleaners, you will surely have deserved it.

[Vaughn]

anono:

i am going to get my terp and sit down with julia and ask her some important questions and see if she understands the advebture she is about to embark on should i ask her to come to the usa.

Robert, are you going to discuss kids? I recall you wrote in Part One that she wanted to wait a couple of years. I'm pushing 55 with three teenage daughters. What're your feelings on parenthood at this stage in your life?

[Vaughn]

Darn JB, do you have a hidden camera looking over my shoulder when I am with my gal.  Now that you have given me all the anwers

\

Turbo, you really worry me, I don't even know where to begin. Call this a cheap shot if you must, but why on earth are you gonna marry a young girl like this? Where do you see yourselves 10 years from now?

[Turboguy]

Ya know, TurboGuy...

You are way too sensitive..


Yes, if you say so.  I was just joking around.  It didn't bother me at all.  I thought your comment was a bit funny.

Vaughn,

Who of any of us can say where they will be in 10 years.   Probabably divorced again and paying child support till I am 90.  Good thing I didn't want to quit work anyway.  Hopefully I will have had a few good years first.

 

 

[BC]

anono,

Funny.. we had to have a terp for our wedding in RU even though we could understand each other perfectly.

English terp was not available so we settled on an Italian one.. figure that one out.. :?

I can say without doubt though that we would not have needed a terp at all if it were the other way around.

Take it slowly.. you may not like it but time will ultimately work for you.

After meeting we spent two months with absolutely no contact before getting back together again.  Surely no long term guarantee but enough to let the adrenalin/hormone rush wear off and really think realistically about the implications of our relationship.

Just wishing you the best.

[Turboguy]

Ya know, TurboGuy...

You are way too sensitive..

Perhaps some of this hit a tad too close to home. Do you see yourself as a contestant in this? Seeking a young trophy bride whom you know so little about, in a land beyond the pale?

Whatever are your faults, they will catch up to you in the long run. This is a bed you made, not me. I hope you paid close attention to TigerPaws on pre-nups and hiding assets because you are not getting married for all the right reasons. If you try to screw her over, I hope she succeeds in taking you to the cleaners, you will surely have deserved it.

Well Son of Clyde said that we needed some real controversy to get some things going on the forum.  I am doing my best here.   It is funny though if we did manage to make this into a controversial post, once again it is in Anono's TR.  It would be a shame to see Anono's efforts at informing us and educating us end up deleted again. 

Anyway, why would I see myself as a contestant in this.  I am just out looking for a little piece of happiness like everyone else and trying to help here if ever I can.   Perhaps it is a bed I made but I am not complaining about it.  I am happy as a lark.   OK, if I am not getting married for all the right reasons, what are the right reasons and how do they differ from my reasons.  

I am not hiding my assets from her or anyone.  I am doing a pre-nup as much because she asked for one as anything.  Origionally I was not going to do one.   After listening to Tiger Paws and for some other reasons I think it is good all the way around but I am not looking to screw her over. 

[jb]

"Click"


TurborGuy just went on the "ignore" list.

[Turboguy]

That is the greatest honor I have had in days.

[Photo Guy]

jb,
Why do you feel Turbo is possibly going to screw her over?
What are all the wrong reasons that you are implying he's marrying her for?  ...The newbies here want to know.

Also, -how sophisticated does a woman have to be for there to be a happy marriage? Why is urban sophistication so high on your list? What about qualities like charm, humor, honesty and consideration, to name a few? Sweeping generalizations about groups of people just are not good for anything -very impractical. For example you can talk about trailer trash and the motivations of those people, but the generalizations might only be 40 or even 60% true. So what if the guy is dating a woman who doesn't fit into the generalization?

The 'profile' is based on a stereotype. Stereotypes are based on realities, but a large percentage of people do not fit neatly into the stereotype. You need to allow room for those women. Again, it's not a black and white world, there are many shades of gray.

[Turboguy]

"Click"


TurborGuy just went on the "ignore" list.

This honor that JB instilled upon me reminds me of the words of the  football legend, the imortal Vince Lombardi, the greatest football coach of all time (well perhaps with the exception of Bill Cower)  That quote was "If you can't beat them, ignore them"  That was before he stared winning and came out with the "Winning isn't everything,..... " one

For everyone sitting over on the other side of the pond so I don't confuse you I am talking about real football here not that goofy kind where you kick that silly ball around. 

Well I DID say I would try to make the controversial post that Son of Clyde wanted. 

[KenC]

i remeber ranfy and his advice is solid. i think this is wgere julia excels. she is none of the bad traits above. she is,as my friend who runs astologicial charts, an "impassioned angel". i take everything i read with a grainof salt, but if i posrted my chart, you would be able to see the similarities. some of it decribes me to a "t".

i am going back to kharkov on the express train on wednesday and will stay in kharkov until at least sunday. i am going to get my terp and sit down with julia and ask her some important questions and see if she understands the advebture she is about to embark on should i ask her to come to the usa. i am also going to ask her f she would want to live in ukraine, as it is an option i am considering for various reasons.

if i was able to ride my MC, maybe skydive and had my car here, i could maybe live here..not sure but it sometimes occurs to me.

julia is an angel compared to most of these women i have seen and met...

Anno,

I think getting the facts straight with Julia is a good idea.  Make sure you don't sugar coat it either.  Let her know that she will have no friends, relatives or comforting language and culture, only YOU.  Tell her to imagine waking up in the morning without those things.  Explain to her that her life will be completely different from everything she knows now.  Some of it will be good and some of it will be bad.  If she is close to her Mom, explain how she will only be able to see her once a year, even though she can talk to her daily.  She will miss many things while being here in America: Her Babushka's birthday, New Years holiday with her family and when her best friend will need her shoulder to cry on, all Julia will be able to do is to console her over the phone.

I don't expect any of this to matter now though because the two of you are blinded by love or infatuation.  If the infatuation doesn't progress into love, it is a very hard row to hoe, my friend.  But if what you have found is true love, the task will be a little lighter and you will have the peace of mind that you did warn her.  Best of luck.

KenC

[anono]

i am borrowing a laptop and connection at a friends flat so not much time..

about astrology or anything else..  i take everything i read wih a huge amount of skepticism (something also reflected in my horoscope ;-) which includes the bible and anything else not scientifically validated with tons of evidence. it did not mention astrology or anything like this for the past 2 years in my threads..i did so here more as just an interesting POV. i have a freind here into all things alternative and i am open minded enough to listen to or read about just about anything. i think it is dangerous to dismiss somethings out of hand because there just might be valuable information if not something to ponder.

i like to take a lot of different ideas and form my own opinions based on my own experiences. coincidentally or not, my horoscopes, and i am not talking predictions in the daily paper, are extremely accurate. some people think belief in the bible is based on less than that which is based in voodoo..

i may take 1 or 2 percent of what i read or as much as 90 percent, but i maintain an objective and skeptical mind about everything.

including "j" and any woman i would meet no matter where i am in the world.  i do this with everyone and everything..i take them only as far as my intelligence and gut feelings allow..  so mentioning astrology should not shake anyone up. i am just open minded enough to read, well, just about anything and everything..  (don't play triva pursuit with me....)

more later when i can sit down at a internet cafe and have some time..

[anono]

kenC, you must be online as i am now..your post just appeared as i was typing up my post..

you are absolutely right, i will read your post again before i have this talk with "j"...  good advice, thank you

[jb]

Astrology,

Adherence to the notion that one is fated to succeed or fail,  movements, emotions, and future are dictated by forces beyond his control.  A belief system that grew out of old Greek mythology.

One may stand on the railroad tracks, deeming it "fate" has said one must be mashed by the train, or one may say "Screw it," and step to the side and let fate pass. It is one's right, and responsibility to take charge of one's life events.

Still, one always has the right to be squashed by one's "trains." If you refuse to drink, you are allowed to die of thirst. It's your right to believe as you wish.