America's Declining Prestige?!?

[Ronnie]

Ronnie, since you were a stockbroker once and have some understanding of numbers and the pulse, then this should make sense to you:

 It takes only two European countries to surpass America in debt. The top countries that are in debt are all developed nations that I wouldn't mind living in. Guess who has the controlling share of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund? America does because we have the most money to loan. Go figure? Sure we owe somebody but a lot of somebodies owe us too. Most countries would love to have our debt along with our economy and to be in our shoes in having spare change to loan out. Don't believe politicians, media or radio talk show hosts who use debt as a reason for alarm to vote a certain way.

wxman, those charts are useless because they add up all America's debt for decades and compare it to a one year's GDP. That's not a fair way to compare. If you add up every year of debt and compared it to every year of GDP added up, you will find that total GDP added up the last hundred years skyrockets past the total debt accumulated the last hundred years.

The scare some people are putting out is America's debt accumulated for decades is catching up to the latest year's worth of GDP.

http://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

The Canadian dollar and the US dollar once match each other 30 years ago. Nothing to panic about. Everyone's money move up and down. Down has it's benefits as exports increase and so does tourism. American's don't feel the pain but we will end up buying less imports due to the dollar being down. Ask companies outside the USA such as Airbus on how the low dollar has been hurting them more than Boeing.

Todays American's are living better with more than their father's and grandfather's. If an American finds himself working at McDonald's and can't make a living, that's a good thing because he'll think about getting an education to the benefit of himself and this nation.

Unemployment has been at it's lowest rate in a long time. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates compared to most developed nations. Although some Union members complained about immigrants stealing their jobs in the last town hall meeting I was at, the labor Union was recently advertising for more people to join the Union and the Congressman at the meeting said Washington State farmers were losing millions of pounds of crops due to the lack of workers and they want the government to create more work visas. Why? Because the average spoiled and lazy American rather sit on unemployment than take a back breaking farm job. There's no way to work everybody because some people just don't want to work.

Ronnie, based on one of your posts, I don't know if you're extreme to the right or extreme to the left. You speak of a government conspiracy to bring the people of this nation down with harmful policies for personal agenda discussed during their secret society meetings. If this country goes down, they won't have any power as they go down too. I don't see the gloom and doom you do.

Billy,
I'm not a left or right kind of person.  I guess if you must label me label me "populist."  though I prefer to call myself independent.

Let me reply to some of your comments:

First, you provided a link to CIA's chart on "external debt"  That is not the same as national debt or public debt.  It's simply the cumulative total of the face value of debt instruments held by nonresidents and included private instruments as well as government. 

Again, it's important to determine why we borrow..what are we doing with the money.  As a household, if you borrow to finance a home, or start a business that's a whole lot differenct from buying groceries and tv sets with credit cards.  Time was, America borrowed for investment purposes.  Now we borrow to pay out entitlements or pay interest on the existing debt.

You're statement about living better.  I suppose if you count the high-tech gadgets we have accumulated, you might have something. But in the 1950s one person's middle-class income was enough to buy a home, a car and put a whole brood of kids through school.  That doesn't happen today. Middle class wives/mothers must work just to be able to buy a home and they must borrow to put their one child through college.  Baby boomers wonder if Social Security will be there for them when they retire..  That fact is, it won't be without drastic cuts in pay outs or increased taxes.

Currently, according to the Bureau of labor statistics, the average wage has risen 3.3% over all employers..  If you work for the government you say an increase of 4.1% while private employees saw just 3.0% increase.  I say "increase" but that's not true on an inflation-adjusted basis.  With inflation at 4.0% (as it is but rising) it means that the average American worker saw his real wages decrease in the past twelve months and that trend has been evident for some time.

As to exchange rates, Billy, it's not like the weather that "moves up and down" as you say.  A country that continues to have a trade deficit (importing more than it exports) will find their currency being sold more than being bought..a driving down of value and buying power.  You are right about that being good for Boeing and other manufacturers, but other than aircraft and some ag products, American no longer produces much that can be exported.  Even Boeing is outsourcing more and more of it's mfg operations.

    Falling dollar also leads to higher interest rates.  A foreign investor who might want to buy our debt must be concerned that when he gets paid back the value of his investment won't have lessened.  He therefore requires higher interest rate to cover his increased currency risk.  The US economy has fared well the past 30 years, as rates have fallen we've been able to refinance maturing paper with lower rate paper.  I.e. a 30-year bond issued in 1978 at 12% can be retired at a rate of 4 or 5%.  That allows the government to service (pay interest on) more than twice the amount of debt as before with no increase in interest outflow.  When rates reverse and go up and the government must replace retiring debt at higher rates reduces our borrowing power.  That's why the falling dollar is absolutely an undesireable thing right now.

Billy, I don't agree that Americans are spoiled or lazy.  We work more hours than any other developed country and with shorter vacation and fewer holidays.  Americans are discouraged at the job prospects and the low pay provides little incentive for them to apply for most jobs that are open.  If you paid an American the equivalent 4 gallons of gas (as when I was a boy) for every hour he worked picking fruit, many Americans of all ethnic groups (including whites) there would be line a mile long at every farmer's door.

The problem is the growers don't want to pay $14 when they can import cheap labor willing to work at half that rate.  We hear that such farm wages would dramatically increase the cost of produce in the store.  They know better.  They know that the farm labor cost of ag products is 6% or the retail cost.  IOW, a doubling in farm labor cost from the current $9/hour to a liveable wage of $18/hour would translate into an increase of 6 cents on the dollar at the retail market. Consider that the average household spends an average of just one dollar a day on fresh fruits and vegetables and you can see that the claims of a $5 tomato are outright fraud.

One final word about the government's unemployment figure.  Just one in 5 unemployed Americans collects unemployment benefits and according the BLS there are 18 million more Americans working part time who would rather work more hours.

[Ronnie]

The seniors that are not doing well are the ones who did not plan for the future and expected that the government would take care of them with social security. Social Security was never met to be a retirement program, but a safety net. I grew up in a lower middle class family with 5 children. My parents who are in their late 70s, knew social security would not provide their needs. They saved their money, invested wisely and now are living comfortably.  My father never made more than $30,000 a year in his life (and that was his last year working 12 years ago), while my mother was a stay at home mom.  House is payed for, no car payments and pulling in over $5000 a month from their investments. The money they don't spend each month is re invested and making more money. So when I hear that there are seniors that complain that they can't make it I just shake my head. I know in most cases it was by choice.

wxman,
Your experience with your parents is seldom replicated.  While I agree that seniors are the largest investment group (they were more than half my clientele) I also knew many who had nothing.  Their choice you say?  Sure, you can say they made bad choices.  Some I know sunk their entire savings into a child's business that was ill managed went under. 

Another I knew co-signed on a fleet of delivery vehicles for his son's business.  You guessed it, the business went bankrupt and so did the seniors.  The biggest threat to most parents' finances is their love for their own self-centered children.  It seems to me that most occupants of mobile home parks are seniors.  Not quite your parents are they? - God bless them, they've been fortunate as well as wise. 

[BC]

Here's an interesting site

http://www.truthin2008.org/

[I/O]

I/O,
Australia is a long way from the USA and Europe. 

So what?

My part of the US (California) and many others are under seige.  Just recently a video was aired on Youtube.com where a spokesman from the Mexican consulate in San Diego, announced defiantly and confidently to a gathered group of citizen protesters, that "this was, and will be Mexico!"

And you are evidencing some of your argument by pointing to some crackpot who gained his air time on "Youtube". Give me a break, Jeff Foxworthy isn't out of a job yet. Comedy might not be your best career choice whilst he is still working.

When my wife arrived in California, she asked, "Is this America?" "It seems like Beijing or Bombay."  I told her that it didn't used be like this 15 years ago.

Yeah, we had all the sad sacks preaching this when the Japs were buying up hell west and crooked on the Gold Coast. Spot the Aussie was the local joke, but guess what, in a 20 year cycle they are still there but in very much less significant proportions and ultimately their investment was a good thing. So much for the doomsayers of the time.

Now we have the Indians, Pakis and so forth, yet another cycle which will take it's turn.

We have now moved to a part of California that is more as she expected.

Why does that not surprise me. Run Forrest Run, eventually you'll work out, like he did, that you are running for nothing and no purpose. Seriously Ronnie, I'll happily leave you to your conundrum because it has precisely zero to do with Russian women, but I do think you need help.

I/O

[BillyB]

First, you provided a link to CIA's chart on "external debt"  That is not the same as national debt or public debt.  It's simply the cumulative total of the face value of debt instruments held by nonresidents and included private instruments as well as government. 

Again, it's important to determine why we borrow..what are we doing with the money.  As a household, if you borrow to finance a home, or start a business that's a whole lot differenct from buying groceries and tv sets with credit cards.  Time was, America borrowed for investment purposes.  Now we borrow to pay out entitlements or pay interest on the existing debt.

Public debt? It's nowhere near as scary looking as External debt.

http://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html

I'm sure Donald Trump has more debt than anybody here but he also has more assets. Some or all of his debt could be considered borrowed money for an investment.  Unless you're smoking dope and drinking your money away, most people have assets although they may have some debt on their credit cards.

Real debt to me is living in a country with a lack of food, lack of money, lack of medicine and an abundunce of disease.

Ronnie, I don't know where you're getting your information from but it sounds as if your source is bias. Don't believe everything you hear and read. Take your time and do you own comparisons of what is happening here with what is happening elsewhere and you will see something good overall is happening that makes the USA run better than most countries.

[IAmZon]

Billy worte "Sure we owe somebody but a lot of somebodies owe us too. Most countries would love to have our debt along with our economy and to be in our shoes in having spare change to loan out. Don't believe politicians, media or radio talk show hosts who use debt as a reason for alarm to vote a certain way."

And you never here what the US's assets are: military, NASA; education system; medical system; transportation system; natioanal parks; etc..  Sure they could be tweaked this way and that way.  Still, the US is a very rich nation. And dispute our lack of Regan like symbols, we have a lot to be admired

[Ronnie]

Ronnie, I don't know where you're getting your information from but it sounds as if your source is bias. Don't believe everything you hear and read. Take your time and do you own comparisons of what is happening here with what is happening elsewhere and you will see something good overall is happening that makes the USA run better than most countries.

Thank you, BC
Here you go Billy (and others)...run with this.  These are serious accounting professionals...not some biased demogogue.

www.truthin2008.org

I/O nothing you wrote was responsive to anything I wrote..

A spokesman for the Mexican Consulate who steps outside to confront protester is now a comedian?  How does that make sense?

Again, Australia is not Calfornia.  BTW look at the title of this thread.  Maybe there are others more appropriate for you. G'Day

[I/O]

A spokesman for the Mexican Consulate who steps outside to confront protester is now a comedian?  How does that make sense?

Nope, you're the one attempting to be a comedian by using youtube as the main reference for your argument. That was the point. Maybe you could read again?

Again, Australia is not Calfornia.

And again, I would say, so what? And I would say, perhaps use the spellchecker a time or two. Further, I wonder if you have spent a fraction of the time in Australia that I have in California?

BTW look at the title of this thread.  Maybe there are others more appropriate for you.

I suggest you take a little of your own advice before becoming too uppity as I notice the title of this thread is "America's Declining Prestige" and I have noticed exactly nothing you have written which is relevant to that title. Rather, you have jumped on yet another thread to spout your Neo Christo/Political line, which again I remind you has precisely nothing to do with Russian Women whatsoever.

G'Day

The term G'day is usually used to say hello, not a thinly veiled attempt to say goodbyephucyou.

I/O

[Ronnie]

I/O,

I owe you apology for getting you worked up.  I really don't know why all the hostility has been elicited by my views.  I never tried to flame you as you have been doing to me of late..why, because you don't happen to agree with me?  I'm trying to be a comedian because I refer to a Youtube video?  I'm sorry, I don't get that.  I think I'm not the first to refer to youtube on this forum or provide a link.  Maybe I was wrong in not actually providing the link.. 

I also apologize to you for missing one of the "i"s in California.  I have several typing idiosyncracies, one of them is leaving out the "r" in "your" and typing "and" when I want to type "an".  There are others too, I admit.  You're not the first to suggest I use the spell checker.  I'm too lazy, I guess.

My third apology is for suggesting to you that a thread entitled "America's Declining Prestige" may not be one that should contain RW references.  I assumed that such a threat would be under the "Anything Goes" section of RWD which I see now it's not, it's under "Trip reports" section.  Nevertheless, the subject matter appears to me to ask a question as to if and why America is experiencing declining prestige.  I felt my comments were germane to the question.  You apparently disagree. Okay.

I also apologize for appearing to be a "neo Christo/political" something or other.  I don't belong to any groups, if that is one, (I couldn't find such a decription by googling), but I am an adherent to the general precepts of the Christian faith so maybe my views coinside somewhat with those that you describe.

My most heartfelt apology goes out for my ignorance of Australian social custom.  I somehow misunderstood that  "g'day"  was used in your country only as a salutation and not as a valediction.  I'm embarassed and do apologize, especially since you took my expression to be somehow vulgar - I never use vulgarity in my speech or writing and I tend to recoil at the sound of it - even in movies.

Now, I mean no offense to anyone when I say a final time in this thread that America's decline in prestige is not the fault of the American populace, but of her leaders, many of whom are acting in the interest of a globalist agenda which runs directly counter to the interests of Americans and others in the world.  The relationship to RW is obvious as they, as most others on this forum are being, or will be, impacted adversely by these developments as they try to build a new life in an America on the decline.

I refer anyone to the thread in the Anything Goes section where I earlier today posted a link to a 45 minuter British documentary whic discusses the anti-democratic and corrupt aspects of the EU and the negative impact it's having on Britons in particular.  It's important for Americans, Canadians, Aussies and everyone to watch because the EU is the model for how one world government will look.

[BC]

Ronnie,

Your link in NHB gives me:

Not Found
Error 404

You might want to repost.

I refer anyone to the thread in the Anything Goes section where I earlier today posted a link to a 45 minuter British documentary whic discusses the anti-democratic and corrupt aspects of the EU and the negative impact it's having on Britons in particular.  It's important for Americans, Canadians, Aussies and everyone to watch because the EU is the model for how one world government will look.

Other than the link, as a long term US expat living in EU there are some good and bad things I have experienced regarding developments here.

The good, no borders.  I remember well the 'hassle' and am glad to see it go.

The good, immigration is fairly easy and cheap.

The bad, the effects (but not intent) of the Euro.. prices have gone up dramatically.  1 old German Mark has the value today of approx 50 EUR cents.  I could buy a coke back then at a gas station for 1 Mark.. today I pay over 1 EUR.. maybe more than 2.  Same for many other 'necessities'.

The good, banking has become much easier and cheaper.  I live in Italy but do my banking in Germany.

The bad, yeah 9 USD per gallon is tough to swallow but efficiency of EU cars helps somewhat..

As far as politics goes, the local level is where the real action is - for good or bad.  An EU constitution?  Who really needs it.. after all it hasn't been relevant in the past so why is it necessary now...

As far as UK goes, I can imagine as an EU 'outsider' things can get a bit difficult.

[Ronnie]

Thank BC, I reposted it there..

I'll post it here too,

[I/O]

Now, I mean no offense to anyone when I say a final time in this thread that America's decline in prestige is not the fault of the American populace, but of her leaders,

Ronnie, if you had left it at that, we would be in total agreement. I say that, if indeed America is suffering a decline in prestige. Perhaps so, I am not totally convinced. As long as I can remember, some nutter somewhere has been burning an American flag for some nonsensical reason.

Ronnie, look, when you are at the top of the tree, someone, somewhere is always trying to cut it from under you. America ain't perfect, far from it, I have spent some considerable time there on several different occasions over the years and I don't wear rose coloured glasses, but generally speaking, when it comes to lifestyle, climate, infrastructure, economy, logistical capacity etc, America has long been, whether they like to admit it or not, the envy of many if not most.

It's important for Americans, Canadians, Aussies and everyone to watch because the EU is the model for how one world government will look.

When you make statements like this, they are mere speculation with no concrete supporting evidence, albeit if you may be convinced in your own mind the world government thing is on the agenda, right now, there is only vague circumstantial evidence that it possibly at some future time may be on the agenda of some political leaders. That is a very long way from today's reality.

I/O

[Ronnie]

When you make statements like this, they are mere speculation with no concrete supporting evidence, albeit if you may be convinced in your own mind the world government thing is on the agenda, right now, there is only vague circumstantial evidence that it possibly at some future time may be on the agenda of some political leaders. That is a very long way from today's reality.

I/O

I/O,
I'm not now nor have I ever been a flag burner.  I'm a proud veteran and supported my country and it's leaders, right or wrong.  I stood in line 4 hours to vote in 2004 to return the incumbent to office.  I then, like you now, viewed conspiracy theorists as nuts or deranged or commie socialist bent on ruining our country. 

Then came 2007 and I noticed a very respected CNN broadcaster, Lou Dobbs, no intellectual lightweight with a great understanding of complex issues (a Harvard Masters in Econonics), saying something about the Bush Administration on the issue of immigration and trade.

I watched and the more I watched the more I began to see something's not right with this picture.  Why would American president denigrate Americans who wanted the immigration laws enforced.  Why would he be so unconcerned about our growing budget deficit and trade deficit?  He was a Republican after all, wasn't he?

Nothing was making sense.  Then I started to hear about his meetings with the three heads of the US, Mexico and Canada and the purpose of these meeting was preported to be the implementation of something called a Security and Prosperity Partnership.  The information was not a rumour....it's no the Whitehouse website.  So I took a few hours and read the document.  At about that time too, I became interested in the McCain-Kennedy Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill and I read that too, even though it was not available to read until a few hours before a scheduled cloture vote in the Senate.
   I research alleged statements made by certain members of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral commission.  These are not groups that exist in the minds of nuts, these are real and longstanding organizations.  I encourage you to simple research them.
     The notion of "mere speculation" as you put it, was long gone..these were real people with real statements about their vision for a better world.  If you told the average Brit thirty years ago that the Eurpean Economic Community (EEC) as it was called then, would one day become a Super State trumping all the existing governments, they would have, and did, scoff..  Now, nobody is scoffing.  The EU has virtually become the United States of Europe all without a referendum by the voters.  The states that did insist on a referendum, France and Holland, voted "No" on the EU constitution.  Now the unelected commission is disregarding the referendum and implement the same constitution as a treaty with will require no vote of the people.
   So I/O  when you see what has taken place in Europe and the UN and you see the same power people pushing a Union of the North American States, you can no longer say it's just "speculation" 
   I suggest you do like I did, research the key words on google or youtube or anywhere you like.  You could start  these keywords, SPP, North American Union.  European Union, and UKIP, the fastest growing new political party in the UK.  Check youtube.com for clips of Nigel Forage.  He's brilliant, a powerful speaker and spot on with his remarks.
 

[I/O]

Ronnie, you may continue to vent your bent, but for all practical intents and purposes the EU has made no more  difference to my lifestyle than did the EEC which presented certain trade barriers which DID, I admit, effect to some extent, my lifestyle. That said, the reality is, we DO NOT have one world government at this time and if you think an economy as powerful and large as America is going to give up it's absolute sovereignty without a squeal as perhaps many smaller European countries who had little choice because of their real position, I suspect you might be a little off base.

Believe me Ronnie, I have read quite a deal on the subject. I don't profess to know much, but what I have seen is this, the EU has largely been formulated to challenge/match the trading practices of the USA and North America in general, which to be fair, have not always been exemplary, however what has eventuated is that the drivers behind the EU did not see the curve ball coming and that curve ball is right on their door step in the form of India and China. Who is the biggest consumer of China's exports in the world? The good ol' US of A. In other words, who props up China? Largely USA. Now the EU is almost desperate to get Russia on board to regain some momentum.

If there is any relevance to Russian Women in this discussion, it would be, ask the average Russian how they feel about their country submitting to a conglomerate or perhaps a foreign government. The answer you are likely to get is look what we did during the "Great Patriotic War". We fought tooth and nail to almost the last drop of male blood to keep our sovereignty. I don't think Russians will change their thinking anytime soon. Apart from all else, it is good for the Nationally acquired, cash producing assets of Russia to remain fiercely independent, albeit if that is ultimately at the expense of the average Russian.

Powerful speakers and presentations don't sway me too much. What does sway me more often is real on the ground change. What I do see happening in the not too distant future is a further polarising of trading blocks developing, IE: 1) Europe which may include Russia, 2) North America which may or may not include Canada and Mexico, and 3) Asia which is likely not to include Australia too much as our economy is simply not big enough to be of significant gain to the bigger Asian economies. IMO, the dark horse in all of that is Asia as it does include China and India, both of which are massive exporters with a price competitiveness to undermine the salary levels of working people almost anywhere else with the exception of a few.

If I were in your boots right now and I was looking for something to worry about, I would be more worried about where India will go in the longer term. IMHO that's your sleeping giant.

I/O

[55North]

I was most certainly going to keep out of this discussion as I didn't believe it was really saying anything coherent or important.  But then you had to go and mention UKIP, the United Kingdom Independent Party.  I'll try to fair about them.
 
For viewers information, UKIP are a very small ENGLISH political party whose mostly perceived as disillusioned Conservatives.  

Their most famous moment came as 2 egocentric roguish members slogged it out to become leader of this band of Little Englanders (now perceived to mean white, male, anti-'foreigner', small-minded, ignorant, unsophisticated, probably 'racist').
 
Politically, they are most famous for being anti-EU, and would have the UK withdraw from the EU, and go into a special alliance with the USA.  The have yet to win a seat in the British parliament.  Ironically, due to the more progressive constitution of the EU (proportional representation), they have 8 seats in the EU Parliament which they politically despise.  They rail against EU expenses fiddling, cost to British taxpayer, etc. Which leads to their 2nd most famous event, being caught with their hand in the till of the EU's cash register, ie. fiddling expenses.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1434608.ece

UKIP is led by Nigel Farange, who was 'something in the city', and has a reputation for being a 'wide-boy"
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_boy

These people are a complete and utter joke, and are totally ignored by the bulk of Britons.
 
BTW, there are references by exasperated members to the BNP.  THe BNP are slightly to the left of the Klu Klux Klan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

That completes today's English lesson. 

[Ronnie]

I/O and 55,
     Thanks guys for the push back.  As I said, this is stuff that's only now coming on my radar screen.  I/O when you say America will never give up her sovereignty, I hope you meant the people..we ARE the sovereigns as opposed to Britain which sees the crown as the sovereign..at least officially.

    The problem is that once you find yourself among the world's elite, i.e. you get invited to a Bilderberg conference, you tend to become an internationalist.  You begin to look at the interests of your own country as secondary to the interests of the world as a whole.  GW Bush's speech to the Joint Session on the eve of the gulf war, where he expounded on the promise of a new world order he was not talking about the US when he said "we"  That was quite clear. 



Once someone tells you you know what's best for the people even if they don't then you loose your bearings and allegiance.  You can become delusional...drunk, if you will of your own hubris.
So no, the American people won't stand for it, but that's been known all along by the global power elite.  That's exactly why, I worry they will try to put Americans in a weakened position.  Who are "they?"
JFK called them a "monolithic and ruthless conspiracy"

Listen to his 1961 address to the press...

[I/O]

(now perceived to mean white, male, anti-'foreigner', small-minded, ignorant, unsophisticated, probably 'racist').

55: Quite unfair of you to publish my credentials in such bald form. You could have said, "Anti Most Foreigners, partially racist".

I/O

[BillyB]

GW Bush's speech to the Joint Session on the eve of the gulf war, where he expounded on the promise of a new world order he was not talking about the US when he said "we"  That was quite clear. 

Most if not everyone of the President's speeches is written by a speech writer. You interpret his word "we" to include other nations in a grand plan but most nations consider Bush a go at alone kind of guy(unilateral) based on his actions in Iraq. Many would have voted against us at the UN if it came to that when deciding what to do in Iraq. If Bush is trying to get everyone on board for a One World Government, he's doing a poor job because it's clear not everyone wants to ride his train.

[Jazzyclassy]

I was most certainly going to keep out of this discussion as I didn't believe it was really saying anything coherent or important.  But then you had to go and mention UKIP, the United Kingdom Independent Party.  I'll try to fair about them.
 
For viewers information, UKIP are a very small ENGLISH political party whose mostly perceived as disillusioned Conservatives.  

Their most famous moment came as 2 egocentric roguish members slogged it out to become leader of this band of Little Englanders (now perceived to mean white, male, anti-'foreigner', small-minded, ignorant, unsophisticated, probably 'racist').
 
Politically, they are most famous for being anti-EU, and would have the UK withdraw from the EU, and go into a special alliance with the USA.  The have yet to win a seat in the British parliament.  Ironically, due to the more progressive constitution of the EU (proportional representation), they have 8 seats in the EU Parliament which they politically despise.  They rail against EU expenses fiddling, cost to British taxpayer, etc. Which leads to their 2nd most famous event, being caught with their hand in the till of the EU's cash register, ie. fiddling expenses.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1434608.ece

UKIP is led by Nigel Farange, who was 'something in the city', and has a reputation for being a 'wide-boy"
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_boy

These people are a complete and utter joke, and are totally ignored by the bulk of Britons.
 
BTW, there are references by exasperated members to the BNP.  THe BNP are slightly to the left of the Klu Klux Klan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

That completes today's English lesson. 

Thank you Doctor  )

It was really informative , very interesting information

[55North]

You're welcome JC.

[Gator]

UKIP is led by Nigel Farange, who was 'something in the city', and has a reputation for being a 'wide-boy"

55, is Farange his original name or a statement?  I know that the word means "foreigner" in Thai, and I have some recollection of the same in North Africa and Iran.

[Ronnie]

Billy and Gator,
I will apologize for both 55 and myself as we both "misspoke" (no, we didn't land in Tuzla Bosnia and run for the cars under sniper fire - that would be a lie wouldn't it?).  Actually we mis-typed.

In 55's case he typed Nigel Farange when he should have typed Nigel Farage.  I typed GW Bush, when I should have typed GHW Bush.

Did anyone listen to JFK's speech?

BTW I/O, the guy who produced that presentation is a Aussie who appears to know more about our system of government and the NWO than most yanks.  You guys are smart down under there..is it because standing upside down allows more blood to the brain cells? 

Anyway that Aussie has produced a second 3-part presentation entitled FIAT currency, Tyranny and Presidents.  It's extraordinarily well done...  take a look

http://www.youtube.com/user/ConcernedCitizen9

[WmGO]

The $9.5 Trillion national debt is a ticking time bomb.
Presently, the interest payment alone is the 3rd largest
item on the annual federal spending budget (about $500
Billion paid in interest EACH year right now - and that is REAL
TAX MONEY from the taxpayers). Interest payments will surpass the military/defense budget within a few years....and unlike 50 years
ago when 90% of the (small) debt was owed to Americans, now the
debt is owed 90% to foreign governments and investment houses.

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To the original topic, IMO, American prestige declining in the eyes
of the rest of the world is a FACT of history, whether justified or not.
Obviously, Iraq is 90% + the reason therefore.....

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For Ronnie: it's all about the Ten Toes dude.............

[Ronnie]

Farage strikes me as a hero!  Here he is dressing down Angela Merkel:



And here he is discussing the criminaly background of the unelected and all powerful European commission

[Ronnie]

And here's Nigel  dressing down Tony Blair surrounded by all his buddies!  Gotta give him credit for having cajones grandes.