Just signed up on freeukrainianwomen.com - BOMBARDED with messages r they legit?

[2tallbill]

You knew I would jump on this, Beel

If you are going on a Visit one, and you have done due diligence -the only back up plan you should have in mind is places to visit..if you screw up and where to start contacting new ladies - it is quite wrong to have a lady(ies) 'in waiting'... They aren't daft ..

Moby,

I disagree on several levels. 

I've written extensively on this and don't recommend having ladies in
waiting. That's why on a visit many trip I say to write one letter or at
the most two. On a visit one trip, you've eliminated every other girl to
visit one (that's where the name comes from) I don't recommend going
to your second option because you want a first place girl not a second place
girl and only a desperate girl would want to be sloppy seconds.

Regardless of your efforts before meeting in person it frequently doesn't
work out. Due diligence is the effort you make after meeting in person
and during subsequent trips to ensure you don't marry a girl that you
don't know. It's not the efforts you make with your penpal before you
get on a plane, that's called sifting and screening.

Telling Americans, Australians and Canadians that if there isn't mutual
chemistry after meeting a girl that they must now become strictly tourists
is not sound advice. It's too far, too expensive and too difficult to do.

However,there is nothing wrong with getting on Mamba and inviting a
number of ladies to tea to see if you might have chemistry. That's how I
met Angel Eyes.

[2tallbill]

Bill, stop bringing up your old girlfriend.  Besides, I have it on good authority that she had one tooth.

You should have seen her eat corn on the cob. Even the busiest beaver would have
been jealous 

[2tallbill]

Get more experience. Go to Mamba.ru.

Read the entire post before you respond to it.
Jone is in a relationship with a FSUW hottie.

Why would you tell him to go get more experience?

[ML]

My profile says that I am in a relationship.  But I would not be surprised if these women were using ML's scattershot approach. 

Jone, I don't think scatttershot is a valid description of anything I have described about the way to go about a WMVM trip.

Also, I don't think it is very nice to keep a profile somewhere that women can see and respond to, even when you think it is inactive.  Get rid of those profiles completely.

Same goes for women.  Very nasty to keep up profiles where legitimate persons contact you in good faith.

[ML]

Our Norwegian friend Northkape gives top marks to this website.  I value his judgement very highly because he has spent a lot of time on this journey and uses a very precise way of going about it.

Here is what he previously said:

- - - - - - -

"Much better is freeukrainianwomen.com   They are weeding out most fake profiles before listing them
and if someone slips through, they are usually removed within a day or two.
It is in my opinion the best dating site for finding a Ukraine woman on the Internet today.
A lot of serious women, and you can set up a very good profile with lots of photos.
And they have online translation with back-translating, using google translate, + many more features..
No other site has given me more results, per hour spent on correspondence."

- - - - - - - -

If I were doing a search today, I would head to this site  first.

[jone]

Jone, I don't think scatttershot is a valid description of anything I have described about the way to go about a WMVM trip.

Also, I don't think it is very nice to keep a profile somewhere that women can see and respond to, even when you think it is inactive.  Get rid of those profiles completely.

Same goes for women.  Very nasty to keep up profiles where legitimate persons contact you in good faith.

ML,

I did not mean to diminish your teachings on meeting women.  Actually I am kind of in awe of what you did, when you did it.  It bears review and copying.

As to keeping my profile up, I attempted to remove it.  But then I thought about it and changed it to how it now reads.  I said I was in a relationship.   If greedy little eyes go on Elena's, she will be satisfied to know that my profile says exactly what she wants it to say.

[ML]

ML,

I did not mean to diminish your teachings on meeting women.  Actually I am kind of in awe of what you did, when you did it.  It bears review and copying.

OK, being in awe . . . that's much better.

[ML]

As to keeping my profile up, I attempted to remove it.  But then I thought about it and changed it to how it now reads.  I said I was in a relationship.   If greedy little eyes go on Elena's, she will be satisfied to know that my profile says exactly what she wants it to say.

But on the other hand . . . why keep it up at all?

Let's suppose your current relationship does sour.
Then you could put up a completely new profile and be the ideal candidate . . . one that is NEW.

[BillyB]

I'm telling you that Elena's doesn't write letters for their members.  You are trying to tell me that they do.

I didn't say the agency is writing letters but they can throw it out for the ladies. Some agencies actually get permission from ladies to throw out their introductory letters to tons of men but don't be fooled and get a big ego.


We've had small agency owners come here saying they've become feeder agencies to larger agencies and supply them with their best profiles. Sometimes these larger agencies tell their feeder agencies their ladies aren't active enough and they are considering severing business ties. This stuff has been told on the forum from people in the business. That puts pressure on feeding agencies to perform even if the ladies aren't performing. Elena's Models is big and they can't control all their feeders but they can plant a seed in their heads. How do their feeders get paid? If none of their ladies write letters, do they get paid at all? Maybe Elena can tell us how she pays those who supply profiles to her site? If I supply a hundred profiles to her site and none of the ladies perform, will she still pay me? I doubt it.

I'm telling what I experienced and you're telling me I'm wrong.

We can beat our drums all day but there is a better way for you to understand how FSU women act on dating sites and possible make some money. Remember the time you and a few guys thought I wasn't married and I offered, for money, to take anybody to city hall and have them tell you my marriage is on the books? Money solves lots of problems. Let's bet $1000. You go to Mamba, a free site that doesn't make money off men, and create the best profile you can to attract girls. List yourself in any city of the world and you can even use photos of another man if that helps you better to win. That place is more active than Elena's models and if you can get 40 women to initiate contact with you in 3 days, you win $1000. If not, I win. Make the profile and supply the user name and password so anybody here can check the messages in the profile.


Jone, FSU women rarely contact men first. FSU women rarely waste their time to search for men on a site. They barely have enough time to read and respond to the men already writing them.

Read the entire post before you respond to it.
Jone is in a relationship with a FSUW hottie.

Why would you tell him to go get more experience?

A guy could be married to a hottie he met on AnastasiaDate. That doesn't mean he's experienced. He may have been fooled many times by the agency before he got results. Because a guy's in a relationship doesn't mean he has a grasp of what he was dealing with prior.







 

[wrf101]

One issue I see with Mamba is girls will only be searching locally, whereas with freeukrainianwomen.com and similar (legit) sites, women are searching for men all over the world, and vice versa. So, the pool of women looking at a profile is ipso facto going to be much smaller. But maybe list your profile in a large city like St. Petersburg and you'll still get some hits? I dunno maybe I'll try

[jone]

Billy,

Quite honestly it is you who doesn't even pass the first grade. 

Elena's does not have feeder agencies.  You claim to know their business model and, obviously, you don't.

You keep on talking about your wealth of experience and all you do is look silly.

Duh.

[BillyB]

freeukrainianwomen.com and similar (legit) sites,

Freeukrainianwomen isn't exactly free and a man is limited in what he can do. I've signed up for free on American sites called Horny Cougars and Penitentiary Playmates. Just kidding. Even with a basic profile, women write me letters. Most didn't interest me but when one did, I couldn't communicate with her so I had to sign up. That's when I learned how these American sites hook men. I got played.  I admit it but I learn quickly. Those sites aren't pay to play like AnastasiaDate but to get men to pay for more than a month, they have to keep them interested. Most people will leave a site after a month if they aren't getting results. Look how many dating sites come and go? I know quite a few marriage agencies that have folded up. Many refused to play men.


 Anybody can talk a good talk in a profile but truth is we aren't compatible with over 95% of the women out there no matter what you and they say in their profiles. I post a few photos of myself and generic description when creating a profile. If a woman likes my photo and I hers, we begin to learn about each other and forget about what is said in the profile.

One issue I see with Mamba is girls will only be searching locally,

True but FSU women are FSU women and on the average, they don't make first contact. It's even rare for the ugly ones to make first contact. So if a guy put his profile in a large city, he will not have a lot of first contact from women if any.


BTW, Freeukrainianwomen doesn't agree with you and says Eastern European women are shy to make first contact and recommends the men to do it first. They are right about that.

it is you who doesn't even pass the first grade. 

It's hard to beat a first grader, isn't it? Since Jone won't put his money where his mouth is, will somebody else step up for him? I'll bet any guy to put up a profile on Mamba and prove that it's possible to get 40 FSU women to contact him in 3 days. It's hard for a guy to cheat on this experiment so it's easy money for me.

[wrf101]

So I'm actively chatting on freeukrainianwomen.com with about 6 girls now. I really can't handle any more. These are all girls that either contacted me first or sent me a letter/flirt after I "favorited" them (about 3/4 I didn't even favorite). They are responding to specific questions and laughing at my dumb jokes via chat, so no cut and paste responses from them. I friended one on FB and added 3 to Skype, although I've yet to do a video chat (it's only been a couple days), but so far most of the girls seem legit. One girl says she only writes letters through the site which makes me think she may be a scammer. I wrote a response saying I need more than letters to be induced to visit a lady. We'll see if she responds or disappears.

One thing I'll say about Elena's models. Last year I tried that site out for a couple months. I did get 2 Russian girls to come to Utah and visit me. Really they were already planning on coming anyway. The girl contacted me and said it was her dream to visit the Grand Canyon and all the parks in Utah where I live. Also she said she wanted an American husband. She bought her own ticket to Utah and brought a RW friend with her, so she wouldn't be scared that I or some other American would rape her. LOL! But I understand where she's coming from, totally. The girls were both nice and we had a fun 2 weeks together. Too bad she was a selfish and self-centered (albeit very cute) girl so not for me. Nice girl otherwise though.

BUT I did notice on EM I got a LOT of indicators of interest, and then I'd write the girls and half wouldn't even respond. So that leads me to believe that maybe some of these IOIs or flirts or whatever they were  were fake. But I don't know for sure. I just know that so far on this new site, if a girl sends me a flirt, and then I write her, she's pretty much always written back. And I might add this new site costs quite a bit less than Elena's models.

[wrf101]

BillyB, I think you're trying to prove that the girls on sites like EM and freeukrainianwomen.com are fakes if they contact men first, because most 'run of the mill' women on a site like mamba would (in your experience) not contact a guy first, is that right? Problem is, the mindset of a woman willing to relocate and just a normal FSUW girl on mamba are not one and the same. So I just can't see your experiment proving anything. But I might join mamba anyway just to see what it's like, and I'll happily share my experiences if/when I do.

What I think will prove something is if I am able to video chat with some of these girls who contacted me first. The girls I've exchanged letters with didn't seem like scammers because they weren't sending me form letters. But they could just be good scammers. Stay tuned we'll see what happens!

Maybe I'm biased because I had a Russian girl contact me on EM last year and then come out and visit. That could have been a fluke but maybe I'm biased because of it.

[jone]

Freeukrainianwomen isn't exactly free and a man is limited in what he can do. I've signed up for free on American sites called Horny Cougars and Penitentiary Playmates. Just kidding. Even with a basic profile, women write me letters. Most didn't interest me but when one did, I couldn't communicate with her so I had to sign up. That's when I learned how these American sites hook men. I got played.  I admit it but I learn quickly. Those sites aren't pay to play like AnastasiaDate but to get men to pay for more than a month, they have to keep them interested. Most people will leave a site after a month if they aren't getting results. Look how many dating sites come and go? I know quite a few marriage agencies that have folded up. Many refused to play men.


 Anybody can talk a good talk in a profile but truth is we aren't compatible with over 95% of the women out there no matter what you and they say in their profiles. I post a few photos of myself and generic description when creating a profile. If a woman likes my photo and I hers, we begin to learn about each other and forget about what is said in the profile.



True but FSU women are FSU women and on the average, they don't make first contact. It's even rare for the ugly ones to make first contact. So if a guy put his profile in a large city, he will not have a lot of first contact from women if any.


BTW, Freeukrainianwomen doesn't agree with you and says Eastern European women are shy to make first contact and recommends the men to do it first. They are right about that.



It's hard to beat a first grader, isn't it? Since Jone won't put his money where his mouth is, will somebody else step up for him? I'll bet any guy to put up a profile on Mamba and prove that it's possible to get 40 FSU women to contact him in 3 days. It's hard for a guy to cheat on this experiment so it's easy money for me.

Who gives a flying f about Mamba?

You have been proved wrong by three members of the forum.  I have never made ANY assertions about Mamba.  It is you who are making them about Elena's and don't know what you're talking about.

Now you are trying to dodge the bullet when you made that long post about the feeder organizations that were submitting to Elena's ..... WHEN THERE AREN'T ANY!  You made that assertion.  Now back it up with a wager.  You wager that Elena's gets its ladies from agencies.  I wager that Elena's doesn't get their ladies from agencies.  You stated above that they did.  Put your money where your mouth is.

My original interaction with the op was to let him know that if he puts up a good profile, he will hear from women.  As I did. 

You have tried to bend my response three times, telling me what I experienced wasn't true.  And you have intentionally misquoted me to make your points. 

Get a grip!

As an aside, I ignored Mamba because I considered it specialized for the local community, where, I'm sure women do not wish to look too forward to the men they wish to meet.  I would not be surprised if women do not make the first move on this particular website.   People like Bill have had success using Mamba.  I congratulate him and any others.  It was not for me.

*********************************

I asked my fiancee tonight about Mamba.  She told me that women who use Mamba are looking for love in their own cities.  Not internationally.

We look forward to seeing you back in the first grade again next year, Billy.

[BillyB]

Now you are trying to dodge the bullet when you made that long post about the feeder organizations that were submitting to Elena's ..... WHEN THERE AREN'T ANY!  You made that assertion.  Now back it up with a wager.  You wager that Elena's gets its ladies from agencies.  I wager that Elena's doesn't get their ladies from agencies.  You stated above that they did.  Put your money where your mouth is.

Turboguy is a senior member here and is calm and stable. He owns a business and has his own money so he doesn't need ours. He doesn't hate me and I don't think he hates you. He also found his wife on there so he's not hating on Elena's. He's trustworthy enough for both of us to wire a $1000 and he can distribute it to the winner.


To be clear, I say Elena's models use feeder agencies so don't make the mistake I said they exclusively use feeder agencies. Any woman can sign up on their site by themselves. You say they don't use feeder agencies at all. I'm not the only one that needs to provide proof. You need to explain how an agency out of Australia gets profiles from women all over the FSU and who their affiliates, partners, and subsidiaries are that you're not allowed to sue according to their disclaimer. I will also explain who those partners are.

[TagUrIt898]

What happened to just helping the original poster with his question?  Guys let's set our egos down for a minute and get back to helping the newer guys find a good quality FSUW.


WRF, I'm glad to hear you're having some success already with contacting the ladies. Yes the one that said she'd only communicate thru the site sounds like a scammer. A girl that's genuine  and truly interested will always want to move the conversation off site and to Skype. Don't fall for the I can't Skype BS either. Almost all FSUW have access to some sort of video camera either by their phones on computer.  There is also the WhatsApp and Viber. Sounds like you're on pace my friend. Be sure about what you want and more importantly that you're both on the same page of life with goals and aspirations.

Tag

[BillyB]

What happened to just helping the original poster with his question?  Guys let's set our egos down for a minute and get back to helping the newer guys find a good quality FSUW.

We've remained on topic. The OP said in his first post he's overwhelmed by 20 flirts and another 7-8 letters in 5 hours from a recommended site. This stuff isn't real no matter how good a profile is and when I said this stuff happens on Elena's Models some long time posters are probably unhappy believing most of that attention they've received isn't real. Even if Jone doesn't want to put $1000 in my pocket, I will later present my evidence for free for those who are new in this endeavor and need a better understanding of how agencies work so they can get away from fantasy and deal in reality. I'm not saying Elena's models is unethical and they are 100 times better than AnastasiaDate but they do deal with other smaller agencies that may or may not alter their lady's behavior.

[wrf101]

Thanks guys! Yeah I think I'm mostly wise to the scams, but these girls can get pretty creative so you never know what they might try and pull next. If a girl gives me her skype address or VK or Facebook, that or phone #, that goes a long ways towards setting my mind at ease.

I gotta tell you, IMHO the average lady 30-40 years old in the U.S. is a 5 or 6. Is it just me or does the 'average' FSUW seem more like a 7.5 or 8? I know some pics are photo-shopped but when I was in Kiev it was like holy shit every 40 feet on the sidewalk I'd pass a model-quality lady.

I'm not all about the looks, but it's rare for me to feel attracted to a woman who is 20 lbs. or more overweight. I still look for intelligence, humor, kindness, very much so. My inner suspicion is this is how most if not all men are wired, to want a physically attractive lady, even if they don't admit it. Not a supermodel, just moderately fit and feminine. What do you guys think?

[wrf101]

So I just heard from the suspected "scammer" girl. She says she's ok with video chat, but she's shy at first because her English is bad. Not saying she's not a scammer, but she also wrote me a detailed letter answering all my questions too, so who knows she might be legit, we'll see. I'm smart enough to know never to send a lady money, no matter how good her pics look.

[wrf101]

IMHO from what I've seen so far, having experience with both sites, I had a ton of flakes on EM although I did meet some nice ladies. A much larger percentage of the women on freeukrainianwomen.com seem legit as I've had conversations with a dozen where it was actual interaction and they didn't set off my scam alert (except for one). Also fuw.com deleted one suspicious profile in my favorites list. So I suspect they are better at weeding out fake/scammer profiles than EM. There is a 'complain' button at the top right of every message I read, so I'm guessing many suspicious women get complained on and weeded out.

[oso]

I just wanted to clarify some info I read in this thread...
EM does use the profiles from other agencies....How do I know? I have two friends here that have small dating/marriage agencies. They use EM's platform. For a small agency to build a platform is not cost effective.
About letter writing....There are signs posted all over the poles here with companies looking for people to write letters...It's a job
Also I know a woman here that writes letters for her daughters. She wants a better future for them and is genuine about helping her daughters find a better life with a foreign man...She gets plenty promises but no man ever comes to meet them. I must say the daughters are smoking hot...go figure. Also I know many women here that are professional and want to meet a "good man" but they are in there 40's and 50's which kinda puts them out of the "market"

[wrf101]

OSO can you message me how to contact these two ladies? I just might actually visit them I plan on a trip in 6-8 weeks. Where do they live?

Also, you said: "There are signs posted all over the poles here with companies looking for people to write letters...It's a job"

Sorry I don't know how to do the quote within a window.

Do you mean people are hired to write letters for fake profiles? Or help ladies who can't speak English write letters? I find it hard to believe they'd advertise on this site for scam letter writing?

[oso]

I will talk to the mother for you...Your age could be a factor.

About the letter writing, Also understanding that Russian language doesn't always translate to English well. But agencies look for letter writers...Fake profiles? I would guess that "letter writers" aren't writing about themselves. Igor could be writing if you know what I mean.

Also do your homework...wash them through the "blacklist" and check there ISP. Finding someone to write you is a piece of cake. Making sure the person who is writing is who they say they are....It is part of the process. When you learn how to check out a lady it will be simple. One thing I found out googling them, change your browser to .ru or .ua. You will be amazed!! and then write there name in native alphabet WOW!
Also most of the people here that are younger than 30-35 all speak English, unless they live under a rock.
Another thing when writing them, get very blunt early in your letter. Americans speak "around the bush" ask very simple direct questions. They use English different than we do. Try asking "what is your target" in relationship and future. My guess is you will get a very real answer that is most likely to be honest
.
I live in Kyiv. The studies here show that the demographics are the young people moving to Odessa, and the older ones wanting to leave Ukraine. I am not saying that you can not meet great women in Kyiv...I have no problems in meeting young women here...They are everywhere. I am a western man in his 50's and it makes me a big target. I tell people if you want to meet one of these ladies, come here for a vacation. And treat it like a vacation....make sure that on your list of your destinations is the metro in Kyiv...and ride all day for less than .50. Friday night or anytime Saturday are the best...

[wrf101]

Cool, thanks OSO. You can tell the Mom I live in Utah, don't smoke, don't drink, 4 year university degree, have an above-average paying job (but not wealthy). I'll try to figure out how PM you a pic lol. But if they are under 24 then they may be too young for me!

Good advice - is there a link you can point me to so I can find out how to search blacklists and check out these girls? Thanks for your help!