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Author Topic: Just signed up on freeukrainianwomen.com - BOMBARDED with messages r they legit?  (Read 39013 times)

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Offline oso

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Offline oso

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Cool, thanks OSO. You can tell the Mom I live in Utah, don't smoke, don't drink, 4 year university degree, have an above-average paying job (but not wealthy). I'll try to figure out how PM you a pic lol. But if they are under 24 then they may be too young for me!

Good advice - is there a link you can point me to so I can find out how to search blacklists and check out these girls? Thanks for your help!

I am not bashing you here. I am giving you some good personal tips to help in catching the "right fish"
and when you catch the right fish she will rock your world. The words amazing and incredible won't come close to describing her :)

What ever you do don't boast....tell them you have higher education. Tell them you have a steady job and a home. Don't tell them you are a CEO of a fortune 500 company. an IQ of 185, live in a million dollar home with a Ferrari for every day of the week. Even if that is who you are. Kinda keep things a mystery for a while. Don't EVER lie or peddle BS. These women have have a sixth sense and are human lie detectors. Wear your heart on your sleeve.

Offline wrf101

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Great thanks for all the advice. I am a sponge right now.

Offline msmobyone

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Moby,

I disagree on several levels. 

I've written extensively on this and don't recommend having ladies in
waiting.
That's why on a visit many trip I say to write one letter or at
the most two. On a visit one trip, you've eliminated every other girl to
visit one (that's where the name comes from) I don't recommend going
to your second option because you want a first place girl not a second place
girl and only a desperate girl would want to be sloppy seconds.

Regardless of your efforts before meeting in person it frequently doesn't
work out. Due diligence is the effort you make after meeting in person
and during subsequent trips to ensure you don't marry a girl that you
don't know. It's not the efforts you make with your penpal before you
get on a plane, that's called sifting and screening.

Telling Americans, Australians and Canadians that if there isn't mutual
chemistry after meeting a girl that they must now become strictly tourists
is not sound advice. It's too far, too expensive and too difficult to do.

However,there is nothing wrong with getting on Mamba and inviting a
number of ladies to tea to see if you might have chemistry. That's how I
met Angel Eyes.

Hi Beel,

thanks for explaining

I also base my opinion on experience - you'll remember my - then - RU wife turned down guys who were clearly on VM trips - regarding them as 'not serious'.

Kransnoyarsk, Siberia was a ten hour flying time - with a not inconsiderable layover and not cheap  ;D

Sochi is only 5 hours flying time- via Istanbul or 6.4 via Moscow, but both involved nearly 24 hours travel, door to door - including hanging around airports - so I can appreciate the time / expense factor, but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.

I read your close call with AE and the previous date persistently contacting you and just don't didn't need that sort of stress  ;D

With modern facilities for comms there is much we can establish before meeting for real

To each his own



Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Online 2tallbill

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Hi Beel,

thanks for explaining


Sure, I wanted to explain to you and also the lurkers/newbies as well.


I also base my opinion on experience - you'll remember my - then - RU wife turned down guys who were clearly on VM trips - regarding them as 'not serious'.

Kransnoyarsk, Siberia was a ten hour flying time - with a not inconsiderable layover and not cheap  ;D

Sochi is only 5 hours flying time- via Istanbul or 6.4 via Moscow, but both involved nearly 24 hours travel, door to door - including hanging around airports - so I can appreciate the time / expense factor, but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.

In my opinion a visit many trip is to meet several girls for tea to see if you have
chemistry before wasting any more of your or their time. The goal being to find
the girl that you come back soon for a visit one trip. Also I recommend never
dating a girl a second time unless she is an excellent candidate for Mrs_________
your name here.

Once you find your ___________ Mrs your name here then you spend your
time exclusively with her.


I also base my opinion on experience - you'll remember my - then - RU wife turned down guys who were clearly on VM trips - regarding them as 'not serious'.

Kransnoyarsk, Siberia was a ten hour flying time - with a not inconsiderable layover and not cheap  ;D

Sochi is only 5 hours flying time- via Istanbul or 6.4 via Moscow, but both involved nearly 24 hours travel, door to door - including hanging around airports - so I can appreciate the time / expense factor, but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.

While we could debate the benefits of VM or VO my recommendation is that
guys who visit only one have a back up plan, with the backup plan of going
on Mamba or a dating site and meeting additional girls if the original plan
falls apart.


but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.

I read your close call with AE and the previous date persistently contacting you and just don't didn't need that sort of stress  ;D

Believe me, anyone who spends months getting to know a girl on Skype
and letters and phone calls will be very stressed if the whole thing goes
down the tubes on day two.

The close call with Angel Eyes was that I originally went to Russia to meet
Green Eyed Girl (GEG) wovo. Things didn't work out and we broke up.
Then GEG had second thoughts and called me telling me she wanted to F#&K me.

Being a flaming heterosexual male I was tempted, but in the end pursued Angel
Eyes exclusively. The moral to my story is that I had a backup plan if things
didn't work out. I would ask out various girls who I never contacted before and
ask them to meet for tea and in the end met my wife. 

If I had moped around going to various museums and being a tourist I wouldn't
have met the girl of my dreams.

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Muzh

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Hey guys thanks for your wealth of insights!

I don't send flirts it's a waste. I marked a bunch of favorites so I'd know who to come back to and write later.

One question I have is I hear there are a lot less 'serious' girls in Kiev. I've been to Kiev twice and each time I met a girl there, but one traveled from Krivoy Rog to meet me, and the other traveled from Poltava! I met a lot of nice girls in Kiev but they seemed to be either a lot more picky or not serious, or wanting me to buy them things at the local store. Actually two girls in Kiev seemed to genuinely be interested in me, but also wanted expensive dinners and presents, so I'm not sure if they were genuine or just wanted a nice time. I probably only spent $200 in gifts on my trip, but if I went again, I don't think I'd buy any girl a gift until she was my girlfriend. Also, this was 9 years ago, so I'm wondering how the dating/marriage landscape has changed in Kiev.


Cheers!


Let me ask you a simple question. When you go out on a date with an American woman, do you ask her to take a bus to a Burger King for a dinner date?


Now, a more serious question. What do you expect from these ladies in Ukraine? Do you think they are looking for someone to rescue them?


Really, it would help if you explain what are your expectations.  ;)
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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I will talk to the mother for you...Your age could be a factor.




Say it ain't so!!


All the young Ukrainian girls between 20 and 25 would do anything to marry an American who is 45 to 55. It is all over their agencies. They would even settle for an 80 yo man.  ;)
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline wrf101

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Hi Muzh,

Here is a long answer to your questions, I hope you don't mind if I reminisce a bit. Or a lot haha.

Interesting questions. When I visited Kiev (twice) I actually didn't mind taking the girls out to expensive dinners. I like expensive dinners myself :) Having them take me to a store and talking me into buying them a dress, however, was a bit off-putting. BUT I thought to myself "you know, these girls don't have a lot of money, so what if I buy them a dress? They need the $30 much more than I". Then later I learned about scams where girls do this with men, then come back the next day, return the dress and keep the cash. I have no idea if this is what the ladies did. But when I learned this, and heard about scams, it made me wonder, although I didn't care at the time. I really don't care about losing $30, but I just want to make sure the girl really likes me and is not just using me. And if I buy her a dress, I sure as hell don't want her returning it for cash.

There was one girl I met (Luda) who at the end of every other date (out of 6 or 7 while I was there) stopped by a store and wanted me to buy her boots, or a hat, etc. I suppose I bought her $150 or so in clothes over a week's time. Also on her profile it said she spoke ok English (level 3 out of 5) but then when I met her she had brought a translator along and I paid $15 an hour, and it turned out she knew almost no English, maybe level 1. The funny thing was even though she knew I was seeing other girls to find the right girl (this was a VM trip) she grabbed my camera from me once and got genuinely jealous when she saw pictures of me with other girls. But at the end of the trip she asked for money for English lessons that a local professor teaches so I gave her $300 (I figured she was my girlfriend and this point and that things would really go somewhere, so she'd need to learn English to come to America right?) Luda and I went out every night (she was my main interest). She was very kind and did nice things for me, bought me a couple small presents of her own, cooked for me once. She seemed to like holding hands and hugging but was shy to kiss, maybe because the translator was there. After the trip was over we talked on the phone a few times and she always seemed to be very excited to hear from me. But then the crash of 2008 happened and I was hard up for a couple years, so I never got to see her again. I bet on the trip I bought her $200 in gifts and of course gave her $300 CASH for the lessons.

To this day I don't know if she really liked me but was just high maintenance, or whether she was a very very good professional dater/scammer. I'm guessing she really liked me but also had learned that she could get American men to buy nice things for her. I also noticed that in the week I was there she wore the same shoes the whole time, only wore two different pants, and wore the same shirt more than once. As in, wore one shirt Monday, another shirt Tuesday, the Monday shirt on Wednesday, and the Tuesday shirt on Thursday. So I felt for her as I figured she didn't have a lot of clothes! Also she was drop-dead gorgeous. Kind of like a nice girl next door who could be a pro model but wasn't.

I met two other girls in Kiev that I really liked. On a prior trip (a 'visit one' trip after a few months of correspondence) I stayed with a girl for a week and things were very intimate physically. She was very frugal and never asked me to spend money on her, and she took care of me, cooked for me a couple times, bought me a couple small gifts, and even made arrangements for a train ticket when we visited her home town of Krivoy Rog and she also helped book an inexpensive but decent flat for me ($80 a night not bad for Kiev). But of course I still treated her well and took her to nice dinners and an opera. She was somewhat clingy but in retrospect she was a really nice lady and she told me eventually (after my trip) that she loved me. I could have married her. She was a kind sweet soul.

On my 2nd trip (VM trip) there was another girl who visited Kiev from Poltava. I had sent her $100 so she could travel to Kiev and see me while I was there. I know I know, I was too trusting! But she was the real deal and actually showed up. She spoke English well and her voice was a little weird, but my was she lovely. By lovely I mean damn she was a super hot blonde. It was pretty apparent that I could have slept with her. There was a situation where that could have happened, but I didn't because I was more into high-maintenance Luda. In retrospect, I think I should have gone for this girl instead but oh well. She was also very jealous of the fact that I was seeing other girls, and it was clear she wanted me all to herself.

There were other girls I met of course but these were the 3 I cared about.

What I learned from this is 1) Ukrainian women are gorgeous and can be very sweet and feminine, 2) they get jealous pretty easily, even if it is the first time they meet you and it's understood that I'm on a trip trying to meet several women so as to narrow things down to one. 3) Ukrainian women take very good care of a man they like, much better than I've EVER had an American woman take care of me. 4) Some Ukrainian women just want true love and a happy family, and don't care about materialistic things so long as there is enough money for stability, while others have no problem using a man to buy them all sorts of nice things.

After my 2nd trip I read a lot more about scams and it made me wonder whether my high-maintenance girl Luda was scamming me or just was high-maintenance. What do you guys think?

Anyhow, based on the behavior of the other two women, who never asked me to buy them fancy things, (I still took them to nice dinners, and paid for everything for them while I was there) I preferred the other women because I was sure they liked me for me and not for my wallet.

So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this? Is this girl definitely a pro scammer, or is there a chance she really likes me but also really needs some boots because she's dirt poor and winter is coming, and she knows it's no big deal for me to buy them? How to respond?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 03:05:29 PM by wrf101 »

Online 2tallbill

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Just signed up on freeukrainianwomen.com - what to do
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2015, 04:52:36 PM »
So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this? Is this girl definitely a pro scammer, or is there a chance she really likes me but also really needs some boots because she's dirt poor and winter is coming, and she knows it's no big deal for me to buy them? How to respond?

wrf101

It sounds like you found a batch of pro daters. No good girl will ask you
to buy her anything more than a taxi ride home after a date and usually
they will take the bus. If a Western girl asked you to buy her a pair of
boots you would tell her to get off the crack pipe. It's the same thing
with Eastern girls.

If a girl asks for a present after a date dump her on the spot.

Luckily you are here at the forum and there is a plethora of information
here.

start here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

and then read the free ebook here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=48

As you do your research you will have questions. Write them down and
keep going. Once you get a few questions lined up you can use the
search function or start a thread with your questions. When you ask
questions you will get a bunch of advice. Some of the advice will be
very good and other advice won't be as good.

Whatever you do don't get offended. Nobody knows you here so they shouldn't be able to offend you. Your job is to sort through the advice
and take the good stuff and ignore the rest.

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline BillyB

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I just wanted to clarify some info I read in this thread...
EM does use the profiles from other agencies....How do I know? I have two friends here that have small dating/marriage agencies.



Whoa!!! What are you doing? You want to get crucified with me? Do you want to be told 3 people disagree with you, you're having a bad week posting, and you got the wit of a kid that flunked first grade?


I don't know what it is with Elena's Models, but when someone comes out and says something isn't right about them, some people on forums go on attack hurling insults. I've seen this over the many years I've been on the forum and it never fails. I've had guys PM'ing me about things that weren't right and didn't want to get beat up like the other guys who shared their experiences in the open. Why do people vigorously defend Elena's Models as if it was their own child? Is it because they used the site and if anybody had an idea they may have traded love letters with Ivan, the employee of the month, it would shame them? I guess they feel it's better to shut up those that question Elena's Models instead of questioning Elena's Models themselves.


Oso, thanks for sharing your experience but I wish you exercised patience and watch how this would play out. Jone hasn't posted in a while and he's probably doing some research and he's not liking the answers. Most likely in the end he'll thank you for saving him money but I don't want his apology. I wanted his money. If he was a gentleman and said "BillyB, I disagree with your opinion on Elena's Models business model but why do you think the way you do?", I would then give him everything, without a wager, that I'm going to give tomorrow and get people educated on how big agencies work. I say tomorrow because I'd like to give Jone another day to continue the bet he asked of me.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Muzh

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Hi Muzh,

Here is a long answer to your questions, I hope you don't mind if I reminisce a bit. Or a lot haha.


(Snipped for brevity.)




WOW!! That was a lot of explaining. I do appreciate it.  ;)



What I learned from this is 1) Ukrainian women are gorgeous and can be very sweet and feminine, 2) they get jealous pretty easily, even if it is the first time they meet you and it's understood that I'm on a trip trying to meet several women so as to narrow things down to one. 3) Ukrainian women take very good care of a man they like, much better than I've EVER had an American woman take care of me. 4) Some Ukrainian women just want true love and a happy family, and don't care about materialistic things so long as there is enough money for stability, while others have no problem using a man to buy them all sorts of nice things.

After my 2nd trip I read a lot more about scams and it made me wonder whether my high-maintenance girl Luda was scamming me or just was high-maintenance. What do you guys think?

Anyhow, based on the behavior of the other two women, who never asked me to buy them fancy things, (I still took them to nice dinners, and paid for everything for them while I was there) I preferred the other women because I was sure they liked me for me and not for my wallet.




First, you are generalizing and that goes against your own interests. Most women want true love and find a soul mate. Americans included. Ukrainian women have this exotic aura that gets your pump flowing downstream to certain vital organs. BUT, they are basically the same as any other woman.


Also, if you think they will stay "docile and feminine and sexy" give them a few years here. They'll be just like any other American woman you have dated. I'm sorry, I had to laugh at them not being materialistic. It's okay, you are just learning.

So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this? Is this girl definitely a pro scammer, or is there a chance she really likes me but also really needs some boots because she's dirt poor and winter is coming, and she knows it's no big deal for me to buy them? How to respond?


Thousand answers for you but I'll limit it to a few.


What to do meeting a girl in Ukraine for the first time? Exactly the same you would do when meeting a babe at the local watering hole for the first time. It's simple. Trust me, they are of flesh and bones.


Now, do you go buying clothes or shoes to the babe you just met at the local watering hole? No, of course. You can tell her many things but okay is not one of them, right? That should answer your question about the girl's motive.


That she is dirt poor? This is basically the main mistake many guys do when meeting a babe from the former Soyuz. Is she poor? That is none of your own damn business. Repeat after me, That is HER problem, not MINE. Do that 60 times and it becomes a habit. ;)


Many guys mistakenly believe they are there to rescue the fair maiden from impending danger, so they are there wide-eyed, bushy-tailed with their wallets wide open hoping that the babe will show some "gratitude." Boy, I know there are places like that in the US and usually they have a bouncer at the door.


It's winter and she is almost naked when you meet her. NO, she is NOT dirt poor. She is getting your blood flowing downstream to vital organs. DUH!!!


And if she is poor, That is HER problem, not MINE.

I suggest you work on your pick up approach and deal with these ladies in a very normal manner for you. After all, they want to meet the Amerikanetz.


BTW, my wife and I celebrated our 15th anniversary this year. Still holding hands (so she cannot hit me.)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 09:07:48 AM by Muzh »
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline BillyB

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I've never used an agency to communicate with women but I have communicated with thousands of women and understand how FSU women write their own profiles and know they very rarely initiate first contact. Elena's models has too many women initiating contact with men. Many of their profiles were not written by the women or the women took advice from an agency on how to write their profile. Also too many photoshopped photos there. Most FSU women would not photoshop their photos for an online profile. I'm not going to supply a ton of information about Elena's Models using feeder agencies but here's a small sample below.


In the link below, a member said an FSU woman he's communicating with on Elena's Models is claiming she has orders to respond to 100% of the men writing her. Our beloved Lily says she never had to do that and other members point one can see the percentage of how much a woman replies and most do not reply 100% of the time. Who's right and who's wrong? Nobody is wrong and everybody is right. Individuals answer to nobody and feeder agencies of integrity won't have their ladies write 100% of the time. But not all feeder agencies are the same and some understand the more their ladies perform, the more money they make. Elena's Models can't control everybody.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9778.0


In the link below at post #87, a member said the first letter he received from his wife was fluent and encouraging but later his wife later revealed it was written by her local Elena's Models feeder agency. It is possible a man can be trading letters with slicky dicky Boris, the employee of the month at Elena's Models.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9778.75


Elena posted a photo at the bottom of the page in the link below of herself in a group photo with ladies from a local feeder agency she had a meeting with. This is her website.


http://www.womenrussia.com/who.htm


In the link below she explains the role of big Western agencies and local FSU agencies. She said local FSU agencies sends, rents, or sells women's profiles to Western agencies. This makes sense to me. Local FSU agencies have better access to the ladies and the bigger Western agencies are better to market the ladies. They need each other. Agencies outside of the FSU are so much bigger than agencies in the FSU and it seems unrealistic but truth is, the big agencies are just a bunch of small agencies united.


http://www.womenrussia.com/agencies.htm


If you still don't believe Elena's Models use feeder agencies from member's own words and Elena's mouth herself, you can do what I did. I wrote them I'm opening new agencies in various Ukrainian cities and I understand it's difficult to build a business without exposure and would like to team up with them. They replied they are not looking for more agencies to work with but to contact them later. Do you think they want me to contact them later because they like the attention or in the future may be in need of more feeder agencies?


One reason I have not petitioned for the removal of Elena's Models from the forum's recommended list is because I do believe Elena has set good rules for feeder agencies to follow and if a feeder agency violates those rules, it's not because Elena told them too. Elena's Models is nowhere near as bad as other big Western agencies so there is a difference on how they operate and part of the praise or blame goes to headquarters of every agency.


Because there are many feeder agencies working with Elena's Models with every one of them having different management styles, some men will have a bad or good experiences with Elena's Models. Just be aware there are all kinds of people(scammers) and businesses that want to separate you from your money. Things may seem innocent enough on dating sites in America and FSU when you can sign up for free but there is bait and that bait may lure you into a membership and if you sign up for a lower tier membership, you may be thrown more bait to lure you into a bigger membership. There is even bait to get men motivated to use the site for more than one month.


Now that you've been educated by the guy who flunked first grade, you are better prepared to enter into the world of FSU dating and women. I hope next week will be better for me when it comes to posting....and I can make some money off the naïve. Women aren't the only ones that can do that.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline BillyB

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So I'm actively chatting on freeukrainianwomen.com with about 6 girls now. I really can't handle any more. These are all girls that either contacted me first or sent me a letter/flirt after I "favorited" them (about 3/4 I didn't even favorite).

 I wrote a response saying I need more than letters to be induced to visit a lady. We'll see if she responds or disappears.



They are baiting you. You have to write a number of letters to get closer to the ladies. You don't know who you're writing to until you get on the phone and Skype with them often.



BUT I did notice on EM I got a LOT of indicators of interest, and then I'd write the girls and half wouldn't even respond. So that leads me to believe that maybe some of these IOIs or flirts or whatever they were  were fake.



Letters and expressions of interest are fake. They are baiting you to write back and the women doesn't even know they wrote you and if they did find out someone wrote on their behalf, they aren't interested in sending you a second letter.


So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this?



Say "NO" or walk away. Get tough and don't put up with nonsense. Can you do this? You are getting ran over by agencies and you are getting ran over by the women. You need to make changes on how you find these women and make changes on how you deal with insincere women. When they take you shopping or you give them money for English lessons, don't think of it how much they like you but how much they hate you. If they had the hots for you, they wouldn't insult you by bleeding your wallet dry. When you give into girls like that, they don't think you're a hero, they think you're stupid. They are experienced in helping fools separate from their money. When it's all said and done, you're not going to have any money left for the good girls.


About letter writing....There are signs posted all over the poles here with companies looking for people to write letters...It's a job



There was a story told earlier in this thread that if one uses a juicy worm on a hook, he'll catch more than if he just used a bare hook. That is true but when dealing with agencies, a guy needs to understand he is the fish and the agency is the fisherman with the bait. With a clear understanding what he's up against when doing business with an agency, a guy can properly move forward and won't know if he's dealing with a woman until he gets past the letter/chat form of communication.


If any guy ever gets beat up from other posters for questioning Elena's models, provide a link to this thread. I set those in denial straight.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmobyone

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In my opinion a visit many trip is to meet several girls for tea to see if you have
chemistry before wasting any more of your or their time.

Rightly or wrongly, I 'filtered' who I wanted to meet using SKYPE or similar... Eventually, we'D end up casually chatting and you'll get to know each other when relaxed and see each other in a home environment.  We didn't always have this facility, before and it is SO useful.

When I met SC, I knew what to expect and we decided it was pointless for me to book an apartment...  and YET she nearly lost control of the car when I put my hand on her leg - as she drove me from the airport  ;D

If I had moped around going to various museums and being a tourist I wouldn't
have met the girl of my dreams.



IF..it hadn't worked out, I would have tried to set up a date - I just wouldn't contact anyone before hand as a plan B.. AE knew your situation and accepted it - you were honest and it impressed

I agree many guys have met their wives using visit 'many' ..I tried visiting Kyiv and had lined up two ladies and they both told me they would never have agreed to meet me, if I had lined up more than one date ....

Keeping them apart was too stressful.I cannot fib to save my life and simply did not feel comfortable.

In MY opinion - if you are going a long way - it is better to get to know someone beforehand and really want to meet, rather than a series of dates - after a brief chat or two on line. The chances are the lady may not show  - doubt your seriousness.A first date rarely reveals all the things you want to know

I am unique as is every person reading this and there is no 'right way'


 
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline Sous02

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I needed to know if I was being scammed in my early days so I set up a second profile and contacted the ladies I was writing to. Soon weeded out the fakes and was well worth the effort.

Offline wrf101

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Thanks guys for advice on how to handle the pro-daters. Really there were only two women who did that, one I spent $30 on, but the other one got a good $500 out me. That was 9 years ago. It won't happen again believe me. Live and learn!

FYI by way of update... Right now I'm chatting with 4 women on Skype, one on Facebook, and one on Viber. So far I've had 2 actual video Skype chats and one phone call on viber all with different ladies. Not bad for the first 5-6 days or so. The video chats the girls look like their pics more or less. All in all very attractive girls. I am STILL getting well over a dozen 'winks' a day. 3/4 of them are unattractive and 1/4 are good. I have more than I know what to do with. The search engine for this site is not very good so really it's a lot of work just sifting through the ladies I want to contact, but I end up just 'favoriting' them and get enough write-backs from girls I've favorited, or contacts out of the blue, that I've only written actual first-contact letters to half a dozen ladies. When ladies contact me, most of them just send a flirt or write a letter with a smiley face and say 'hi' and that's it. Only two girls have stopped writing me, and I stopped writing maybe another 6. It would be ideal if I can narrow things down to just one girl for a visit, here's to hoping.

One thing I take exception to: BillyB says FSU women rarely contact men. I think it's more true to say "FSU women rarely contact men with average online game". I've had friends on U.S. dating sites say the same thing about American women: men have to initiate the contact almost always. For a long time, that's how I used to have to do it on U.S. sites too. But, for the past few years I have almost NEVER had to write women on U.S. sites. They all send me a flirt or write the first letter. Sure 80-90% are unattractive, but when I get 5 or so flirts a day, that's comes out to 3.5 attractive women sending flirts a week (and another 3-5 who are datable but only kind of attractive.) Only if I see a particularly attractive girl would I write her (and maybe 30-35% of the time they'd write back, but these are the girls getting 10-25 messages every day).

What I'm finding here is I'm getting exactly the same type of response on this new website, only the girls are on average much cuter (duh). I mean 1 out of 10 American women are foxes, on here it's almost 50% it seems. And I'm getting so many flirts a day because on these sites girls aren't just writing local guys, they're searching worldwide, and my profile is still pretty new.

Try doing a "recon profile" sometime. Take an attractive girl's pics and post them on a dating site. Your profile will probably get taken down in less than a week (or even a day or two) but in that week, you'll get 100 letters from guys. Read what they're saying. 98% of the guys have extremely lame online game. They say "hi" "hey" "what's up". A few will write something dirty. Some will say "oh you have such a beautiful smile, beautiful this, that, etc." It's all the same! And most men's profiles aren't all that interesting. They say what they want in a woman, what they do for fun, they talk about their job blah blah blah.

When it comes to writing a good profile, the trick is to post several of interesting photos, then write a few funny lines, some interesting and thoughtful lines, throw in a mysterious cryptic line, and then write something a little intimate and personal. Admit one thing you're struggling with but phrase it in optimistic terms (don't admit to a criminal record or porn problem or anything idiotic like that). This works absolute wonders. If you come off as too perfect, women will see you as fake and a player. If you show a little vulnerability and emotional intimacy, women see you as someone they can emotionally connect with. By showing a little vulnerability you are demonstrating the courage to be open and real with a women. They love it. It's a little secret almost no man's profile has. It's pure gold. And remember that women love to 'help' and 'fix' men.

I don't claim to be great at dating in person... I'm decent but not great. But online game, I've gotten pretty good at. I've asked hundreds of women to review my profiles and suggest improvements. If a woman reads a unique, funny, and interesting profile, do you REALLY think she WON'T hit the 'flirt' button when it's right there, and her curiosity and attraction are aroused? Of course she will. You've impressed her, she wants to know more, and it takes one mouse-click. And even the super-hot girls browse profiles to see what's out there. They're curious. And it's not hard to beat the competition when 98% of them all say the same thing.

I've done enough phone calls, facebook chats, video calls at this point to say at the very least, this site has a lot of real women on it. Maybe some are fakes I dunno, but most seem legit. I'm sure there are many sites out there that don't take measures to filter out the scammers; this one seems pretty good so far. I'll let you know as things progress.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 04:39:32 AM by wrf101 »

Offline msmobyone

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I needed to know if I was being scammed in my early days so I set up a second profile and contacted the ladies I was writing to. Soon weeded out the fakes and was well worth the effort.

'scammed' ..I do hope you don't mean if she dared' talk to another guy - before you even met ..
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline msmobyone

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Thanks guys for advice on how to handle the pro-daters. Really there were only two women who did that, one I

FYI by way of update... Right now I'm chatting with 4 women on Skype, one on Facebook, and one on Viber. So far I've had 2 actual video Skype chats and one phone call on viber all with different ladies. Not bad for the first 5-6 days or so.

I'd say that was pretty par for the course ..certainly don't agree that FSU women won't contact you - my Russian Wife did.

Being direct - I think most normal guys could build up a virtual 'harem' - but what cuts the mustard is if you get on the plane and you find a keeper.




But, for the past few years I have almost NEVER had to write women on U.S. sites. They all send me a flirt or write the first letter. Sure 80-90% are unattractive, but when I get 5 or so flirts a day, that's comes out to 3.5 attractive women sending flirts a week (and another 3-5 who are datable but only kind of attractive.) Only if I see a particularly attractive girl would I write her (and maybe 30-35% of the time they'd write back, but these are the girls getting 10-25 messages every day).

What I'm finding here is I'm getting exactly the same type of response on this new website, only the girls are on average much cuter (duh). I mean 1 out of 10 American women are foxes, on here it's almost 50% it seems. And I'm getting so many flirts a day because on these sites girls aren't just writing local guys, they're searching worldwide, and my profile is still pretty new.

Yup, I;m getting the feeling you may be judging 'success' by the 'flirts' you get ... I made a very specific profile about what I was looking for and made it clear that 'flirts' were a 'turn off' as if someone felt like contacting me, I'd appreciate at least a few introductory words ... My profiles were 'hard' but smart women realised I was serious.

Try doing a "recon profile" sometime. Take an attractive girl's pics and post them on a dating site. Your profile will probably get taken down in less than a week (or even a day or two) but in that week, you'll get 100 letters from guys. Read what they're saying. 98% of the guys have extremely lame online game. They say "hi" "hey" "what's up". A few will write something dirty. Some will say "oh you have such a beautiful smile, beautiful this, that, etc." It's all the same! And most men's profiles aren't all that interesting. They say what they want in a woman, what they do for fun, they talk about their job blah blah blah.

I cannot think of anything more daft to advise.  You are wasting some other guys' time and using someone else's images.

(don't admit to a criminal record or porn problem or anything idiotic like that).



OMG - Please tell me no-one is taking this poster's 'advice', seriously .... What exactly is your aim - to get as many virtual friends or to find a life-partner ... I have a feeling your potential victims have a right to know if you have a criminal record / porn problem - or 'anything idiotic' ....


I don't claim to be great at dating in person... I'm decent but not great. But online game, I've gotten pretty good at. I've asked hundreds of women to review my profiles and suggest improvements. If a woman reads a unique, funny, and interesting profile, do you REALLY think she WON'T hit the 'flirt' button when it's right there, and her curiosity and attraction are aroused? Of course she will. You've impressed her, she wants to know more, and it takes one mouse-click. And even the super-hot girls browse profiles to see what's out there. They're curious. And it's not hard to beat the competition when 98% of them all say the same thing.

I've done enough phone calls, facebook chats, video calls at this point to say at the very least, this site has a lot of real women on it. Maybe some are fakes I dunno, but most seem legit. I'm sure there are many sites out there that don't take measures to filter out the scammers; this one seems pretty good so far. I'll let you know as things progress.

Let us know when you get back from meeting the girls .... that is what counts

Really, that IS good advice


Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline Lily

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Thanks guys! Yeah I think I'm mostly wise to the scams, but these girls can get pretty creative so you never know what they might try and pull next. If a girl gives me her skype address or VK or Facebook, that or phone #, that goes a long ways towards setting my mind at ease.

I gotta tell you, IMHO the average lady 30-40 years old in the U.S. is a 5 or 6. Is it just me or does the 'average' FSUW seem more like a 7.5 or 8? I know some pics are photo-shopped but when I was in Kiev it was like holy shit every 40 feet on the sidewalk I'd pass a model-quality lady.

I'm not all about the looks, but it's rare for me to feel attracted to a woman who is 20 lbs. or more overweight. I still look for intelligence, humor, kindness, very much so. My inner suspicion is this is how most if not all men are wired, to want a physically attractive lady, even if they don't admit it. Not a supermodel, just moderately fit and feminine. What do you guys think?

Years ago, I joined this site with a question regarding this 5-6-7-8 beauty scale for women  :) From my perspective, I'd say that it is true that an average Russian woman's appearance would be more attractive than that of an average American woman. Different genes, food, education counts. No diversity, no promotion of weak or mediocrity, a winner-takes-all mentality.

A beauty bar in Russia is therefore higher. If you live among many women of similar race and looks, you probably will start comparing them to each other, and inevitably you will find out that this one is pretty, and that one is prettier, and the other one is even more so, etc, etc.

Women are born and bred with this in mind. We do therefore take pride in our appearance, we dress, behave and carry ourselves to impess.  :-*
Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline wrf101

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Mobyone, are you just being a troll here? Seriously?!?

I am only reporting my experience, that's all. I never said flirts = success. That is purely your assumption. My goal, if you read my original post, was to find out whether the girls sending flirts were legit girls and not scammers. I am now reporting that many of the flirts are converting to live conversations, meaning at least a good chunk of initial flirts seem to be legit, interested ladies. This is all relevant to the purpose of this thread.

I am not building up a "harem" as you put it, or preying on 'victims'. The reference to a porn problem or criminal record was a hypothetical example, nothing more. The point of me saying that was to illustrate the point that one shouldn't reveal too much too soon on a public profile regarding certain weaknesses one may have (and I realize that certain violent/exploitive criminals should be avoided by the ladies at all costs, but you know in my home state, a traffic ticket is a crime, so 'criminal' is a very broad term). It's GOOD advice. I never said that if someone had problems along those lines, that they shouldn't eventually disclose that. I'm not looking for mere "virtual" relationships. Did I ever say anything to indicate I was? I've visited Kiev twice in the past and found one girl who told me she loved me and was willing to marry me. I don't claim to know everything but also I'm not a total newb to this.

Why do you think writing several women at once, to find the RIGHT ONE to visit and hopefully marry, constitutes assembling a harem? I find your terminology disrespectful. You realize a harem is a captive group or prostitutes and/or sex slaves right? When you were writing your spouse-to-be and other ladies online, did you look at them as your harem? Why are you using terminology like that here? You are seriously trolling me because I'm honestly reporting my online experience? Do you really have a problem with me sharing my beliefs on how to write a good profile, that may help other guys on this site get results? Isn't our point here to share and help each other get better in this area?

Yes I set up a recon profile once a few years ago, for maybe 5 days. If you don't like that, fine whatever. But I guarantee you've done much worse things in your life, so get off your high horse you condescending hypocrite.

Fortunately almost everyone else on this site has been great, so thanks guys (and gals).
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 06:44:34 AM by wrf101 »

Offline wrf101

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Lily, that's exactly what makes you ladies so special :)

Offline wrf101

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Sorry guys, here's something I don't understand: why would people pose as ladies and write several fake letters, when the site I'm on charges a flat monthly rate and is not pay-per-letter? I can totally understand if this were pay-per-letter, but if I already paid my $35 and I now can write unlimited letters, how does this work to their benefit? I don't see how being written multiple fake letters by multiple fake ladies for over a month, where specific questions are being answered and vice versa (not just form letters), merely to induce him to continue another month for another measly $30, can be profitable given the time and effort writing said responses requires.

I'm not saying the posters here are wrong, not at all. I just don't understannd why 'ghost writers' would do this on site that is not pay-per-letter.

Offline BillyB

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One thing I take exception to: BillyB says FSU women rarely contact men. I think it's more true to say "FSU women rarely contact men with average online game".



After all that was said in this thread, if you still believe all that online attention you are getting is all you, then we can't help you. You need to help yourself. Earlier you said you were going to try Mamba.ru and get back to us. Have you signed up? Bride.ru advertises heavily at Mamba and gets the ladies that will consider overseas relationships. It's a monthly fee there but try it out and tell me how popular you are. With the exception of Nigerian scammers on Mamba, you will be dealing with real women in control of their own profile at those sites, not agency ghost writers.


I probably don't have online game and I don't care about making the world's best profile but after writing enough ladies who tolerate my looks, I'll get phone numbers and get dates. Smart women aren't impressed with online game and men certainly have to have more than that to get to first base with them.


Sorry guys, here's something I don't understand: why would people pose as ladies and write several fake letters, when the site I'm on charges a flat monthly rate and is not pay-per-letter? I can totally understand if this were pay-per-letter, but if I already paid my $35 and I now can write unlimited letters, how does this work to their benefit? I don't see how being written multiple fake letters by multiple fake ladies for over a month, where specific questions are being answered and vice versa (not just form letters), merely to induce him to continue another month for another measly $30, can be profitable given the time and effort writing said responses requires.

I'm not saying the posters here are wrong, not at all. I just don't understannd why 'ghost writers' would do this on site that is not pay-per-letter.


Since Elena's Models doesn't do pay per letter, she keeps her site cleaner than the other big agencies but charging a flat fee monthly doesn't stop all questionable activities.


After one month, a guy will pretty much get bored with an agency if he's getting no action and not sign up for another month. There is motivation to get you to sign up another month and then some. If I were a feeder agency that supplied Elena's Models 100 profiles and none of my ladies are writing men, do you think Elena's Models will sign another contract with me or cut ties? Feeder agencies have motivation to perform. Now if I was a feeder agency and 10 out of 100 ladies of mine are actively writing letters sometimes and my competition on the other side of the country has 100 out of 100 ladies writing men 100% of the time, where are the men more likely to go? They will visit the women that's giving them the most attention and the agency for those women will benefit from the men having to hire translators, guides, apartment rentals with the agency getting a cut and many agencies will charge a fee for every date you go on with their ladies.


Now you understand why ghost writers are so important? Do you believe what Oso said earlier that there are advertisements out there for people to be ghost writers? It's a job for some and until you deal with dating sites that are not under the influence, everything you said about you having great online game is unbelievable. Don't lie to yourself. Get to reality and then report back your experiences.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Online 2tallbill

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Since Elena's Models doesn't do pay per letter, she keeps her site cleaner than the other big agencies but charging a flat fee monthly doesn't stop all questionable activities.

Note: my comments are about the site two years ago. They've changed their interface
to a clunky Microsoft system, screwed up the search feature, and a few other things
that made their site worse than before.

Back when I used EM there were significantly more men then women more than a 2 to 1
ratio. Most of the women who wrote to me from EM first didn't interest me. So I wrote to
the girls that I was interested in. I advised girls to join EM (if they were thin) and I advised
men to use other sites including Mamba. NOTE: I didn't tell men to avoid EM, but I stopped
recommending it ahead of other places.

A man only needs one woman, but who knows where you will find her. I highly recommend
avoiding the pay by the letter or pay to chat sites.
 

Udachi!

Bill
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 01:07:35 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline wrf101

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Hi all,

I will say when I was on EM I'd get expressions of interest but most of them never converted to letters after I wrote the girls. The site I'm on now seems to more or less have a 1:1 ratio rather than the 2:1 so perhaps that's what's making a difference. Also I don't do form letters at all. Form letters are both good and bad. I could write a lot more ladies a lot more quickly, but I know my response rate would go way down. It's not a bad way to go, just a different approach.

I can absolutely see flirts being sent out by the system to lure guys in. There was a U.S. website I was using where on occasion a woman would send me a flirt, and I'd respond by writing her and saying 'thanks for the flirt' and she wrote back saying 'you're welcome but I never sent one' lol.

It's only been a week that I've been on this site. It could be a lot of ladies will start to flake. That wouldn't surprise me. We'll see what happens.

I think what I really need help with is getting the right girl when I visit her. Believe you me I'll need some help with that ;)

I'll be sure to check out mamba.... when I have time! Thanks guys even if I don't agree with all posts this is a good discussion to have.

 

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