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Author Topic: The Russian/Syrian connection thread  (Read 253480 times)

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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #525 on: November 24, 2015, 12:16:47 PM »
The President is “wrong” on ISIS Strategy
President Obama’s former Defense Intelligence Agency director speaks
Bianna Golodryga  Yahoo News



On Obama’s approach to how he deals with and characterizes ISIS: “I think the president lacks confidence, to be very honest with you.” He continued: “He has to stop frankly the nonsense and this line of thinking that he’s on and come to grips with the reality and face this problem that we’re facing.”

Flynn also urged Obama to change his current strategy against ISIS. He told Golodryga: “This president has to make decisions now instead of arguing with Republicans and the media. He’s going to make decisions now to at least build a strong foundation for whoever is the next president, because the next president of the United States is going to have a huge international security to deal with, and a lot of it is caused by the complacency of the current administration.”

There is a lot more read all about it here
http://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/isis-after-paris-and-obamas-response-155216002.html
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #526 on: November 24, 2015, 12:29:43 PM »
Pentagon backs Turkey’s version of events, blames ‘incursion’ of Russian jet
By Rowan Scarborough - The Washington Times


read all about it here
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/24/pentagon-backs-turkeys-version-accuses-russian-fig/
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #527 on: November 24, 2015, 12:31:53 PM »
NATO calls 'extraordinary meeting' after Turkey downs Russian jet
(AFP)

read about it here
http://news.yahoo.com/nato-calls-extraordinary-meeting-turkey-downs-russian-jet-115205832.html
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #528 on: November 24, 2015, 12:45:33 PM »
Obama pokes Putin, says jet shoot-down part of ‘ongoing problem’ with Russians
By Dave Boyer - The Washington Times

President Obama said the shoot-down “points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations” in Syria, including attacks against moderate Syrian opposition groups near the Turkish border.

If Russia were going after the Islamic State instead, Mr. Obama said, such mistakes “are less likely to occur.” He said it’s important for Turkish and Russian officials to communicate and to “discourage any kind of escalation.”

read all about it here
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/24/obama-pokes-putin-says-jet-shoot-down-points-ongoi/
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #530 on: November 24, 2015, 12:49:31 PM »
Putin: Russia will not tolerate such crimes as attack against its Sukhoi-24 plane
Russian Politics & Diplomacy TASS

According to the president, the attack against Su-24 plane in Syria goes beyond normal struggle against terrorism, and it is "a stab in Russia’s back" delivered by "terrorism accomplices"

There is more read all about it here
http://tass.ru/en/politics/838825


Putin rages as Turkey shoots down Russian plane
AFP By Fulya Ozerkan with Stuart Williams in Istanbul

Read all about it here
http://news.yahoo.com/downing-russia-jet-stab-back-putin-130913449.html
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #531 on: November 24, 2015, 12:52:10 PM »
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg419066;topicseen#msg419066


I didn't get the scoop it appears,

I think this is probably the best place for the discussion, since there will be ongoing
news about it, but if the mods want to move the stuff here over there I have no issue
with it.

Thanks for the heads up

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Turkmen forces in Syria shot dead pilots of downed Russian jet
« Reply #532 on: November 24, 2015, 02:11:55 PM »
Turkmen forces in Syria shot dead pilots of downed Russian jet: deputy commander
Reuters

YAMADI, Syria (Reuters) - Turkmen forces in Syria shot dead the two pilots of a Russian jet downed by Turkish warplanes near the border with Turkey on Tuesday as they descended with parachutes, a deputy commander of a Turkmen brigade told reporters.

"Both of the pilots were retrieved dead. Our comrades opened fire into the air and they died in the air," Alpaslan Celik, a deputy commander in a Syrian Turkmen brigade said near the Syrian village of Yamadi as he held what he said was a piece of a pilot's parachute.

(Reporting by Mehmet Emin Caliskan; Writing by Humeyra Pamuk and Daren Butler; Editing by Nick Tattersall)

read all about it here
http://news.yahoo.com/turkmen-forces-syria-shot-dead-pilots-downed-russian-143818517.html
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #533 on: November 24, 2015, 02:15:51 PM »
Syrian rebels chant 'Allahu Akbar' over body of dead Russian pilot after Turkey shoots down jet for violating its air-space... then chopper searching for co-pilot is blown up by anti-Assad troops

Turkish army has shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 war plane near its Syrian border, officials have confirmed

Russian jet had violated Turkish air space and ignored ten warnings in five minutes, Ankara military officials said

Vladimir Putin called Turkey's decision to shoot down the plane 'a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists'

Russia claims the jet, which crashed in Syria's Turkomen Mountains, had been in Syrian airspace when it was hit

One pilot dead, the other reportedly captured by Turkmen - ethnic Turks subjected to

Russian airstrikes this week

Dead pilot has been identified as Sergei Rumyantsev, a major at Shagol air force base near

Chelyabinsk in Russia

Video later emerged claiming to show separate rebel group blowing up Russian helicopter sent to rescue other pilot


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3331558/Turkey-shoots-fighter-jet-Syrian-border-Local-media-footage-flaming-plane-crashing-trees.html#ixzz3sRiQNFFY
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #535 on: November 24, 2015, 02:21:56 PM »
Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast doesn't have Obama-like
Rules of Engagement.

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast
Ordered to destroy any target posing danger



read all about it here
http://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 02:24:24 PM by 2tallbill »
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #536 on: November 24, 2015, 02:54:54 PM »
Yes, quite the important breaking news event. I'm surprised they didn't
have the place swarming with news crews.


Heh, this is what happened in my neighborhood when a vet fired a gun into the air.








No biggie. He is just one guy.


How about this one guy.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/11/24/chicago-police-officer-charged-with-murder-for-shooting-black-teenager/?wpisrc=al_alert-national


Oh, that's right. He does not represent America.


Maybe these guys.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/24/five-people-shot-near-minneapolis-protest-cops-searching-for-3-white-male-suspects/?wpisrc=al_alert-national


I really don't understand what's the big deal.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #537 on: November 24, 2015, 03:10:03 PM »
Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast doesn't have Obama-like
Rules of Engagement.

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast
Ordered to destroy any target posing danger



read all about it here
http://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/

If this ship the Russians are deploying is the Mokva which was originally off the Syrian coast to assist the French effort? ... That would be a mistake (for the Russians).

This class of warship, although it looks impressive, is basically obsolete. It works fine as a gun/missile platform (barge) and for showing the flag but it really has no modern air/surface defensive capability.

If they open fire on the Turks in any capacity the Turks'll sink her. That's a given.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/slavaclassguidedmiss/

Brass





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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #538 on: November 24, 2015, 03:25:33 PM »
Here's a good, old-fashion American response to ISIS.


http://news.vice.com/article/gun-toting-protesters-held-a-rally-against-islamization-outside-a-texas-mosque?utm_source=vicenewsemail


Yep, almost look like Iran.

Good.  Hopefully we see more of this.

Of course, if it had been some group protesting a Christian church then nobody would have cared and the liberals/media would be backing the protestors.

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #539 on: November 24, 2015, 04:15:59 PM »
I posted this in another thread early this morning.

"If the Russian jet were 30 miles inside Turkey border, why did it crash inside Syria, albeit close to the border?  Fighter jets are not good gliders.  The Russian jet may have been inside the Turkey border yet was making its way back to Syria.   If so, why attack it?

Conflicting news (imagine that happening, especially when Russia is involved).  Russia says the jet was brought down by ground fire.  Turkey says two of its F-16s hit it with missiles.  The Russian version would allow this to be swept under the rug.  Now this must be reconciled.

Kremlin says this is a "very serious incident."  I label that as an understatement because Russia usually responds.

This incident was likely because:

1.  Turkey wants Assad to be overthrown and is supporting some of the opposition forces.

2.  Russia is supporting Assad and is bombing repeatedly these opposition forces.

3.  Unlike the NATO jets, Russian jets did not have permission to enter Turkish airspace.

4.  Russian military aircraft have a history of ignoring NATO airspace and in fact has made multiple incursions into Turkish airspace only to be warned,  This time Turkey did more than warn.

Much more to come.  It would be good if the politicians good negotiate  some temporary agreement for a ceasefire  between Assad and the NATO-backed opposition groups.  This would enable coalition forces AND Russia to focus instead on ISIS.

As someone said today, this is how World War I got started.  One difference, Russia has no allies."

__________________________________________________________________________ _______
__________________________________________________________________________ ______

New since then:

The US military stated the Russian fighter jet did not cross far or for long into Turkish air space.    It begs the question of why Turkey did not escort the Russian fighter to the Syrian border.  Also, the US military said the action took place "at the border," raising again my morning question of why did the Russian jet crashed inside Syria if 30 miles inside Turkey. 

News confirmed that Turkey is supporting this particular rebel group in the area of this action, and that the Russians  have bombed them.   The rebels fired barrages  at the parachuting pilots while in the air (atrocious act).     The rebels also shot down a Russian helicopter attempting to rescue the pilots.   

Turkey's actions seem unjustified and  unnecessarily risky.  A former NATO supreme commander  made it clear that this was Turkey, not NATO, as if he were distancing himself from Turkey. 

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #540 on: November 24, 2015, 04:19:00 PM »

Heh, this is what happened in my neighborhood when a vet fired a gun into the air.

No biggie. He is just one guy.

How about this one guy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/11/24/chicago-police-officer-charged-with-murder-for-shooting-black-teenager/?wpisrc=al_alert-national

Oh, that's right. He does not represent America.

Maybe these guys.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/24/five-people-shot-near-minneapolis-protest-cops-searching-for-3-white-male-suspects/?wpisrc=al_alert-national

I really don't understand what's the big deal.

I don't understand what the big deal with those news articles is either.  What's your point?

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #541 on: November 24, 2015, 04:37:37 PM »
I posted this in another thread early this morning.

"If the Russian jet were 30 miles inside Turkey border, why did it crash inside Syria, albeit close to the border?  Fighter jets are not good gliders.  The Russian jet may have been inside the Turkey border yet was making its way back to Syria.   If so, why attack it?

Conflicting news (imagine that happening, especially when Russia is involved).  Russia says the jet was brought down by ground fire.  Turkey says two of its F-16s hit it with missiles.  The Russian version would allow this to be swept under the rug.  Now this must be reconciled.

Kremlin says this is a "very serious incident."  I label that as an understatement because Russia usually responds.

This incident was likely because:

1.  Turkey wants Assad to be overthrown and is supporting some of the opposition forces.

2.  Russia is supporting Assad and is bombing repeatedly these opposition forces.

3.  Unlike the NATO jets, Russian jets did not have permission to enter Turkish airspace.

4.  Russian military aircraft have a history of ignoring NATO airspace and in fact has made multiple incursions into Turkish airspace only to be warned,  This time Turkey did more than warn.

Much more to come.  It would be good if the politicians good negotiate  some temporary agreement for a ceasefire  between Assad and the NATO-backed opposition groups.  This would enable coalition forces AND Russia to focus instead on ISIS.

As someone said today, this is how World War I got started.  One difference, Russia has no allies."

__________________________________________________________________________ _______
__________________________________________________________________________ ______

New since then:

The US military stated the Russian fighter jet did not cross far or for long into Turkish air space.    It begs the question of why Turkey did not escort the Russian fighter to the Syrian border.  Also, the US military said the action took place "at the border," raising again my morning question of why did the Russian jet crashed inside Syria if 30 miles inside Turkey. 

News confirmed that Turkey is supporting this particular rebel group in the area of this action, and that the Russians  have bombed them.   The rebels fired barrages  at the parachuting pilots while in the air (atrocious act).     The rebels also shot down a Russian helicopter attempting to rescue the pilots.   

Turkey's actions seem unjustified and  unnecessarily risky.  A former NATO supreme commander  made it clear that this was Turkey, not NATO, as if he were distancing himself from Turkey.

http://www.rt.com/news/323343-turkey-un-syria-russian-plane/

Claims the Russian pilots were warned several times.

I'm sure Russia will take the stance that the jet was brought down by ground fire.  That leaves Putin somewhat of an out.

Remember, this SU-24 is the plane that Russia vaunted could disable (electronically) an Arleigh Burke class destroyer or whatever.  The Russkies will have to go into full spin mode to explain how their badass SU-24 could be brought down by export, Turkish F-16s of all things.

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #542 on: November 24, 2015, 04:42:38 PM »
Turkey's actions seem unjustified and  unnecessarily risky.  A former NATO supreme commander  made it clear that this was Turkey, not NATO, as if he were distancing himself from Turkey.

Turkey's actions is very extreme for violating the airspace. Especially if it is true that the Russian jet was brought down buy Turkish jets. I suspect something else is at play that nobody is talking about.

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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #543 on: November 24, 2015, 05:30:52 PM »

If this ship the Russians are deploying is the Mokva which was originally off the Syrian coast to assist the French effort? ... That would be a mistake (for the Russians).

This class of warship, although it looks impressive, is basically obsolete. It works fine as a gun/missile platform (barge) and for showing the flag but it really has no modern air/surface defensive capability.

If they open fire on the Turks in any capacity the Turks'll sink her. That's a given.


Brass

I am sure the Turks would, they have a very long history with Russia.
If they wanted to scare someone they could have a boomer surface near
it, but that might be too much.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 05:32:48 PM by 2tallbill »
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #544 on: November 24, 2015, 06:08:13 PM »
Turkey's actions is very extreme for violating the airspace. Especially if it is true that the Russian jet was brought down buy Turkish jets. I suspect something else is at play that nobody is talking about.

Not really, if what Turkey said is true.  They warned the pilots multiple times to turn away, the Russians didn't, Turkey shoots them down and says "we warned you"!  Nothing extreme about that.

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #545 on: November 24, 2015, 06:11:50 PM »
Hi Tim,

Good to see you posting.

After the incident, Turkey immediately called a meeting of NATO members.  Obviously, they wanted to outline their side of the story so that everyone could sing from the same hymn book.  That hasn't happened. 

I think NATO is hanging Turkey out to dry - but only a little bit.  In other words, we have your back if you get invaded, but don't provoke the Russians again!
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #546 on: November 24, 2015, 06:14:54 PM »

This incident was likely because:

1.  Turkey wants Assad to be overthrown and is supporting some of the opposition forces.



True, and Turkey is supporting ISIS because ISIS sells them extremely cheap oil and fights Kurds and Assad's forces which aren't friendly to Turkey.


2.  Russia is supporting Assad and is bombing repeatedly these opposition forces.



Turkey doesn't like Russia killing their friends(rebels) and business associates(ISIS).


3.  Unlike the NATO jets, Russian jets did not have permission to enter Turkish airspace.

4.  Russian military aircraft have a history of ignoring NATO airspace and in fact has made multiple incursions into Turkish airspace only to be warned,  This time Turkey did more than warn.



Ever since Russia entered the war, Turkey gave them warnings and locked radar on those jets. Russia knew it could happen yet they continued to test Turkey as a way to show NATO they can do what they want. Putin was wrong and has been humiliated by this incident.


Remember, this SU-24 is the plane that Russia vaunted could disable (electronically) an Arleigh Burke class destroyer or whatever.  The Russkies will have to go into full spin mode to explain how their badass SU-24 could be brought down by export, Turkish F-16s of all things.


The SU-24 design is 50 years old. Even if the downed plane was made this year, it's performance will be lacking. It's not bad ass and it's not even a fighter jet. Its a bomber jet similar to our retired F-111 Aardvark that bombed Libya in the 80's. An F-16 is an old design too but not as old as a SU-24 and is a fighter jet. It's superior to the SU-24.


After the incident, Turkey immediately called a meeting of NATO members.  Obviously, they wanted to outline their side of the story so that everyone could sing from the same hymn book.  That hasn't happened. 

I think NATO is hanging Turkey out to dry - but only a little bit.  In other words, we have your back if you get invaded, but don't provoke the Russians again!


Turkey funds ISIS buy buying their oil and with those funds, ISIS buys weapons. NATO isn't happy with Turkey at the moment.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #547 on: November 24, 2015, 06:37:35 PM »
Not really, if what Turkey said is true.  They warned the pilots multiple times to turn away, the Russians didn't, Turkey shoots them down and says "we warned you"!  Nothing extreme about that.

Airspace is violated all the time all over the globe. Scrambling jets to meet them, warning them is not extreme. Shooting it down was very extreme in anybody's airspace even in a war zone when you are not in direct conflict. The act was indeed extreme. There's no sugar coating it

Offline Anathema

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #548 on: November 24, 2015, 07:08:28 PM »
The SU-24 design is 50 years old. Even if the downed plane was made this year, it's performance will be lacking. It's not bad ass and it's not even a fighter jet. Its a bomber jet similar to our retired F-111 Aardvark that bombed Libya in the 80's. An F-16 is an old design too but not as old as a SU-24 and is a fighter jet. It's superior to the SU-24.

Oh I'm well aware.  Russia, however, apparently is not.  What I posted above was claimed by Russia a few months ago.  The rest of the world laughed and this incident just added to that.

Airspace is violated all the time all over the globe. Scrambling jets to meet them, warning them is not extreme. Shooting it down was very extreme in anybody's airspace even in a war zone when you are not in direct conflict. The act was indeed extreme. There's no sugar coating it

Warning them they would be shot down and then doing it is just follow through.  Keeping your word isn't extreme.  This wasn't a typical "show of force" type of game.  Plus, as others have said, Turkey and Russia have a history.  Might not have been the smartest move by Turkey but I bet Russian pilots will keep an eye on where they're flying in the future!

Shooting down the aircraft wasn't anything extreme but gunning down the pilots under canopy will probably lead to backlash.  I'm surprised that part hasn't been the focus yet.

Offline jone

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #549 on: November 24, 2015, 07:33:00 PM »
I didn't know who was responsible for the death of the pilots.  Was it the jets or was it ground fire?
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

 

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