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Author Topic: EU Issues  (Read 77962 times)

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Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #200 on: July 25, 2018, 06:10:30 AM »
Well here's a good article on the Labour rebel MP's voting with the government to get its Brexit legislation through Parliament:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44952098?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story

As we see if they voted against the government, the government would not have got its Brexit legislation through. There assistance is how I stated that the Gov would get their Brexit legislation through even if Remain elements within the Tory party voted against their own government's Brexit legislation.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #201 on: July 25, 2018, 09:02:04 PM »
STILL proving to be as daft about 'Brexit' as dating?

1/ Did you miss how much longer 'EU rules' will apply when 'we' officially 'leave'.....?  Great news...

2/ Once again you take no account of the result if/ when the DUP dump Mrs May....if she tries to change procedures at the Irish border .... game over))
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 09:13:41 PM by msmob »

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #202 on: July 25, 2018, 11:59:11 PM »
STILL proving to be as daft about 'Brexit' as dating?

1/ Did you miss how much longer 'EU rules' will apply when 'we' officially 'leave'.....?  Great news...

2/ Once again you take no account of the result if/ when the DUP dump Mrs May....if she tries to change procedures at the Irish border .... game over))

Well I won't mind about the odd bit of runover of this or that, it will be a lot less to put up with from the EU than at present. Main thing is their influence will be reduced to a far more manageable and less annoying level.

End of the day it will be Theresa who dumps the DUP by calling a General Election if it gets to that point. She knows where they stand and what she has to do in the given event. The DUP for their part don't want a hard border or a customs union so they must know there is only so much room for movement between the two.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #203 on: July 26, 2018, 02:23:50 AM »
Always, you prove you don't have a clue by what you write.


Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #204 on: July 26, 2018, 02:54:14 AM »
Always, you prove you don't have a clue by what you write.

Whose been proven wrong on this so far :D
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #205 on: July 26, 2018, 05:59:01 AM »
Whose been proven wrong on this so far :D

YOU.. but all those resignations and the govt in a terminal nose dive and YOU don't get it ...

Offline msmob

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« Reply #206 on: July 26, 2018, 11:42:18 PM »
Well, Mrs May's "I've taken control" didn't last long..

Her 'compromise' to keep a frictionless Irish / N.I. border was rejected by the Brextremists AND the EU

Don't worry, Trenchie ..I know it always takes you a while to get things ...

Once more, N.Ireland will not agree to being treated differently than the rest of the UK and there has to be a friction-less border ..

With 1 DUP MP suspended until November and Mrs May knowing she must keep the DUP onside - your numbers are soon not going to add up ...



Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #207 on: July 27, 2018, 08:25:15 AM »
Well, Mrs May's "I've taken control" didn't last long..

Her 'compromise' to keep a frictionless Irish / N.I. border was rejected by the Brextremists AND the EU

Don't worry, Trenchie ..I know it always takes you a while to get things ...

Once more, N.Ireland will not agree to being treated differently than the rest of the UK and there has to be a friction-less border ..

With 1 DUP MP suspended until November and Mrs May knowing she must keep the DUP onside - your numbers are soon not going to add up ...

Still not enough Mobers, the 3-4 or so Labour MP's that vote with the Government will still take them over the threshold. Meanwhile, the Hoe is facing a deselection attempt by Labour Remoaners:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44979281 

Still won't matter as she'll keep her seat until there is a General Election and no doubt she is looking to retire soon anyway.

I don't know where you get your information on the Irish border situation, no doubt from traitorous pro-Remain sources ;D

That's all a lot of back and forth discussion that will continue for the next few months most likely, definitely throughout August at the very least. If its all looking south by the end of August and no progress seems possible then yes Theresa will likely call a General Election to press the ejector seat button on the DUP. She's highly unlikely to allow the DUP to vote her out in a no confidence vote as it will make her look weak, she'll call a General Election before that happens, unless of course it looks politically expedient/better in a given situation for her to let the DUP to do so, so she can say she had no other choice.

I can't see Remoaners winning this battle though Mobe, a lot of the main legislation needed has been passed already so we are already a long way down the road and Remoaners always seem to lack the numbers and support in the country for their agenda :)
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #208 on: July 27, 2018, 09:37:54 PM »
Still not enough Mobers, the 3-4 or so Labour MP's that vote with the Government will still take them over the threshold. Meanwhile, the Hoe is facing a deselection attempt by Labour Remoaners:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44979281 

Still won't matter as she'll keep her seat until there is a General Election and no doubt she is looking to retire soon anyway.

As bad with arithmetics as you are with social engaging....   Nothing in your article suggests I am wrong ...

Think... the govt won one vote by only SIX votes .... If the DUP move over ....

Penny dropping, yet ?

'We' may be leaving - but it won't be for long ..

Tick, Tock

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #209 on: July 28, 2018, 02:25:57 AM »
As bad with arithmetics as you are with social engaging....   Nothing in your article suggests I am wrong ...

Think... the govt won one vote by only SIX votes .... If the DUP move over ....

Penny dropping, yet ?

'We' may be leaving - but it won't be for long ..

Tick, Tock

This would rely on the government's EU negotiations failing. If the did Mah would have no choice other than the tariff version of hard Brexit. So likely a General Election. Who do you think would win that General Election?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #210 on: July 28, 2018, 03:26:14 AM »
This would rely on the government's EU negotiations failing. If the did Mah would have no choice other than the tariff version of hard Brexit. So likely a General Election. Who do you think would win that General Election?

You go from daftness to STUPIDITY

1/  First of all your arithmetic  as to the make up of the current Parliament was found wanting and

2/ I would NOT give the Tories another chance unless they expel the Euro-sceptic 'bastards' so disliked by John Major

3/ My hope is that a new Centrist Party will form and kick Labour and the Tories collective asses into obscurity


and we can ask the EU to take us back

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #211 on: July 28, 2018, 04:39:48 AM »
You go from daftness to STUPIDITY

1/  First of all your arithmetic  as to the make up of the current Parliament was found wanting and

2/ I would NOT give the Tories another chance unless they expel the Euro-sceptic 'bastards' so disliked by John Major

3/ My hope is that a new Centrist Party will form and kick Labour and the Tories collective asses into obscurity


and we can ask the EU to take us back

1). Theresa has so far won the votes in Parliament needed to get legislation through, despite what you said.

2). Those Euroskeptics are now more numerous in the Tory party than under John Major. Without them Theresa would far far short of a majority in Parliament either undwe the current government or a new one. Plus by any knock back of the Brexiteers will result in a resurgence of UKIP a problem in that they take votes and seats away from the Tories and also for Labour as well.

3). Yes you mean the new Centrist Party that Vince Cable & Tim Farron were so eager to form they missed the crucial Commons vote and looked even more discredited as a result, lol. They could and attract a fair number of MP's from both Tories and Labour but I doubt they would ever have enough from either party before or after a General Election - Many Remoaners will still stick to party loyalty particularly if they are looking long term if it looks like the whole Brexit thing mah be wrapped up and matters move on - they are not going want being adrift in an increasingly irrelevant EU huggers party where they risk losing their safe seats :)
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #212 on: July 28, 2018, 05:09:01 AM »
1). Theresa has so far won the votes in Parliament needed to get legislation through, despite what you said.


I 'missed' the EU negotiator agreeing...

2). Those Euroskeptics are now more numerous in the Tory party than under John Major. Without them Theresa would far far short of a majority in Parliament either undwe the current government or a new one. Plus by any knock back of the Brexiteers will result in a resurgence of UKIP a problem in that they take votes and seats away from the Tories and also for Labour as well.

TM hasn't GOT a majority .... Hence her need to rely on a party that could ultimately bring he down

3). Yes you mean the new Centrist Party that Vince Cable & Tim Farron were so eager to form t

Did I mention the LibDems ...?

Do keep up Trenchie, your Brextremists are going to get you asses kicked

Offline BC

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« Reply #213 on: July 28, 2018, 05:19:22 AM »
Trench,

you speak as if UK is the only one faced with decisions.  You are leaving out half of the equation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-parliament-veto-deal-theresa-may-irish-border-a8466406.html

So far not up to EU par.

I highly suspect, faced with dwindling timeline and lack of progress that either:

UK proposes an extension which will be granted
or/and(if nothing is accomplished during an extension)
UK, out of breath decide that it's not worth the pain to go through with Brexit and remains.

I give very low chances for a 'hard' Brexit and even if so, things will go so far south so quickly with unforeseen consequences that UK takes the EU offer of returning to the Union and starts working to repair the damage done.

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #214 on: July 28, 2018, 06:00:42 AM »
Trench,

you speak as if UK is the only one faced with decisions.  You are leaving out half of the equation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-parliament-veto-deal-theresa-may-irish-border-a8466406.html

So far not up to EU par.

I highly suspect, faced with dwindling timeline and lack of progress that either:

UK proposes an extension which will be granted
or/and(if nothing is accomplished during an extension)
UK, out of breath decide that it's not worth the pain to go through with Brexit and remains.

I give very low chances for a 'hard' Brexit and even if so, things will go so far south so quickly with unforeseen consequences that UK takes the EU offer of returning to the Union and starts working to repair the damage done.

That would be a bad move BC, there is no way the UK will be returning to the EU it would most likely kick start a Civil War in the UK. The EU is ardently hated by a large segment of the population in the UK. That the problem idiots trying to subvert the democratic process in Remain Labour didn't understand. They can't go behind voters backs and get the thing sewn up with the Lords or the EU to their desire. This would insense Leave voters like no other, they are no being clever but extremely reckless every time they do this or push for votes in Parliament to vote against Brexit legislation. Fortunately a small number of Labour MP's with wisdom of their age and reponsibility as mentioned previously,  Kate Heoy, Frank Field, etc vote with the Government to avoid the turmoil that voting against the government would cause. They do not wish to tear the country apart and realose there is more a stake than trying to defeat the government in a short termist agenda.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #215 on: July 28, 2018, 07:16:21 AM »
That would be a bad move BC, there is no way the UK will be returning to the EU

Unfortunately, our Trench is not aware that folks are waking up to the reality of 'our' govt' making a mess of 'Brexit' ...

Judging by the polls, anyway

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #216 on: July 28, 2018, 11:09:02 AM »
Unfortunately, our Trench is not aware that folks are waking up to the reality of 'our' govt' making a mess of 'Brexit' ...

Judging by the polls, anyway

I think you delude yourself Mobe with polls by the pro-Remain lobby.

Yes, perhaps all Remain MP's in Parliament can form a new Centrist Party, they can call it the Remoan Party, lol. Think you'll find it still won't add up to the numbers needed, they will 'remain' the same.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #217 on: July 28, 2018, 11:41:22 AM »
Ha! ..'Deluded' ..

You are burying your head in the sand

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
 Tories 5 percent down on Labour under JC ? ...That's not  problem for you ?

 Then there's the feeling re 'Brexit '
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 09:07:07 PM by msmob »

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #218 on: July 28, 2018, 03:21:18 PM »
HA1 ..'Deluded' ..

You are burying your head in the sand

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
 Tories 5 percent down on Labour under JC ? ...That's not  problem for you ?

 Then there's the feeling re 'Brexit '

They also state that the Lib Dens are down one and UKIP are up one. Last week figures on the table on the right show Labour and the Tories are tied. In essence these polls are bollocks. Probably the same polka that predicted Remain would win the referendum and Hillary Clinton would be in the White House, lol.

Labour need 'a lot' bigger lead across all the polls and maintain it in order to stand a chance of taking power. Such leads as these polls shoe here have been seen yo quickly evaporate in a General Election campaign, they mean nothing.

Last time Labour did well because:

a). Theresa May lost her core elderly vote by following the advice of two inexperienced advisors.

b). The Lib Dems focused solely on Remain and in so doing so made no concerted attempt to regain the student vote they had previously lost if that was even a possibility. Corbyn saw an easy gain and went for the student vote.

Next time those mistakes are unlikely to be repeated so Labour is likely to lose ground rather than gain it.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #219 on: July 28, 2018, 09:11:41 PM »
More guff

UKIP will be up votes from disillusioned 'Brextremists' - who - unlike you - see 'us' leaving in a  much diluted format

21st July:

Remain 54%, Leave 46% - Sunday Times poll .

In Northern Ireland it’s now +70% Remain with only the DUP pro-Leave - on a false prospectus which claims to be in  favour of soft Brexit in Belfast while voting hard Brexit at Westminster

There are a LOT off asses going to get kicked  and you are now in a minority - as folks - finally - wake up to the looming disaster


Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #220 on: August 02, 2018, 12:59:45 AM »
Well it looks like the government are preparing for either Brexit Deal or a Brexit No Deal scenario.

I'm not that bothered either way so long as we leave and do not get pushed into a Customs Union. I'm not sure though if Theresa can carry the day in a No Deal senario as things stand. Since it will mean tariffs she will likely need to call a General Election to jettison the DUP. Unless of course the DUP see it as a situation not if her making and accept a hard border over the risk of not exiting the EU.

Myself I am really just interested in being able to travel in Europe without much ordeal and the European Health Insurance card for convenience. This can be negotiated separately along with other issues after a No Deal Brexit if it comes to that and of course is in Europe's interest to come to an agreement on that. So just a question of sitting tight now and seeing what happens.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #221 on: August 02, 2018, 01:23:19 AM »
Trench, it is HILARIOUS when you demonstrate your 'knowledge' of N.Ireland politics ..


As things stand, IF there was a Gen Election - probably being brought about BY the DUP - who WILL NOT support a no deal / hard border 'solution'  I believe you'll find the Tories could only govern with .....the DUP ;)

Ironically, CYPRUS has now popped up and said it will not support any deal from the EU side - if there's an attempt to force an Irish border )))


Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #222 on: August 02, 2018, 04:51:10 AM »
Trench, it is HILARIOUS when you demonstrate your 'knowledge' of N.Ireland politics ..


As things stand, IF there was a Gen Election - probably being brought about BY the DUP - who WILL NOT support a no deal / hard border 'solution'  I believe you'll find the Tories could only govern with .....the DUP ;)

Ironically, CYPRUS has now popped up and said it will not support any deal from the EU side - if there's an attempt to force an Irish border )))

I don't see what Cyprus has to do with any of this, they are hardly a big player in the EU.

If there is a hard Irish border it will likely be in a no Deal scenario anyway. The UK will unlikely be willing to pay the EU the 40bn it wants if it will not do a decent trade deal.

I believe an election could be winnable by the Tories and they get enough MP's over the DUP to gain a majority they have done it before. If not then Theresa may have to resign and someone like Boris have a crack at winning amother GE.

Labour are not looking in great shape at the moment with all this anti-semitism clap trap and their party is plot on the EU also, particularly Labour voters.

So unless a way forward is found this situation is likely to end up back at the ballot box one way or another.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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« Reply #223 on: August 02, 2018, 05:26:47 AM »
I don't see what Cyprus has to do with any of this, they are hardly a big player in the EU.

1/ ..and then he goes and proves he knows nought about the EU, too ? :))

Hint : all 27 remaining nations must agree any plan

2/ While the CTA and GFA exist ... NO UK govt can undo them with 'Brexit' stupidity ....  you need to wake up



Offline BdHvA

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« Reply #224 on: August 02, 2018, 07:00:26 AM »
I would rather refrain from commenting on your posts Trenchcoat. But Trench, just curious how often do you think in a day?

If you read your posts on this thread alone it seems like you flop around like a small fish out of water.

A hint (for free) a small or big country that is part of the EU can torpedo/nix any Brexit 'deal.'

Yes I have my opinions regarding the European Union and they do not dovetail with Moby's but Trenchcoat you seem to be in LaLa land regarding this matter. While I am loath to comment on another countries policies, Brexit affects me personally in a negative way. Nonetheless I believe in both the goals and aspirations of the UK nation.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 07:29:16 AM by BdHvA »
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

 

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