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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 1075593 times)

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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #2350 on: January 30, 2015, 04:55:44 PM »

If there were angry mobs near Obama there would probably 1000 security members setting up layers of perimeters.  I don't know how on earth Boethius can think 12 members could adequately protect....it is a ridiculous but interesting assertion.  His security vanishing had to be very troubling in and of itself...where did they go and why did they leave me NOW?  He had legit concerns at that point. 
Fathertime!   
Ukraine is not the U.S.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2351 on: January 30, 2015, 04:56:54 PM »
FT, I am free to have an opinion, as are you.  There is nothing which indicates your opinion is any more accurate than is mine.


Yes an OPINION is fine, but on reply #2342 you said it was FACT.  So if you are downgrading it back down to opinion, that I can accept, although I still think it is flawed.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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« Reply #2352 on: January 30, 2015, 05:15:42 PM »
I will agree that the method of Yanukovych's removal was a coup.  However, even those in his own party voted for his impeachment, so I don't think you can sway it was illegal.
$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.  As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly. 


lol  So those that think the US had it's hands in the pie are haters now BO?  Sounds like a JayH comment. 

Offline AC

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« Reply #2353 on: January 30, 2015, 05:27:15 PM »
$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.  As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly.  If the US wanted a change on government in Ukraine, they would have done it at the Rada level, not at the presidential level.  There is proof of meetings between Yankovych and Putin about stopping the Euromaidan protests.  Why would Putin care???Which occurred when a new government was being formed.  It does not prove your allegation and frankly, Ukraine is not that important to the U.S.So you know the whole truth?  Because from where I sit, what you post is grossly inaccurate.  I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories.If you believe half of what RT posts, you are already lost.

The part I bolded is the double-standard.  Russia feels they have a right to have a stooge in Ukraine who answers to them, but they claim that the USA should not have any influence over Ukraine.  What is key about that is the fact that it's Ukraine who wants our help.  They being a sovereign nation can ask for help and a relationship with whom they choose.

In regards to the 5 Billion in aid to Ukraine over two decades, how much did we also give to Russia over the same period of time?  Would be very interesting to know that.  Again, do as I say, not as I do.

Offline The Natural

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« Reply #2354 on: January 30, 2015, 05:37:00 PM »
$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.

Ah, here you reveal Your naivitee (sorry, don't know how to formulate properly). Thos fine institutions you mentioned are exactly what Washington use to subvert and foment internal revolutions in a country where it's paymasters covet the Resources. That is precisely why Putin made these organizations register as Foreign entities a few years back. The west hypocritically of course yelled foul play. Only that this exact thing was done in the US decades earlier. But as we all know, different standards for different People, and no standards for the INDISPENSIBLE ones...(you know, the empire).

As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly.    It does not prove your allegation and frankly, Ukraine is not that important to the U.S

Say again? US haters? I don't hate the USA. I have met several Americans, and although they are a bit full of themselves at times, I genuinely like most of them and believe some qualities of the US culture could be adopted here in Europe, like being polite in person (obviously not online, hehe), saying "Yes, Sir" in shops and giving great service to customers, being supportive of someone trying to build something, agreeing it's okay to have some self-confidence... and so on.

But you Bo, make the same mistake (aren't you a Canadian now?) as many Americans make when someone criticize their policy, they equate their COUNTRY to their government!!!!!
I subscribe to a YouTube-channel where an American woman living in Norway makes these videos about life here compared to what she was used to from California. If she makes some Critical remarks I don't og ballistic because it's my country. That's stupid. If anything, I think she's too careful. Before making an insignificant criticism, she kinda apologize beforehand. No need as far as I'm concerned and if you think I'm hard on US politicians, you should hear what I have to say about the tiny lap-dogs in Oslo.


.So you know the whole truth?  Because from where I sit, what you post is grossly inaccurate.  I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories.If you believe half of what RT posts, you are already lost.

No dear Bo, I don't know the Whole truth. Not even part of the Whole truth. But I do believe I know a lie when I see it. Especially about the Ukrainian situation in which I have read and watched countless of hours.

You don't believe in conspiracy theories Bo, really? As far as I understand you, you believe that the Russian government has conspired to invade the Donbass area of Ukraine and then lie about it to "the international" society.

Years back I believed in conspiracies like the government put plate-Reading cameras on police cars and had a Technology where they could search through brick walls With a camera. Stupid me. I forgot the government is all goood. Normal man is bad.

I will try to redeem myself Bo. It make take some time though, that brainwash soap is difficult to rinse off.....

Offline BillyB

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« Reply #2355 on: January 30, 2015, 05:38:55 PM »
Trillions?  Where did you pull that number from?



Most people don't need an explanation but for those who do, I will explain. Yanu stole billions from the Ukrainian people. If an American Prez did the same thing, the Prez would have to steal trillions for Americans to feel the same pain in the pocketbook as Ukrainians have felt.


Our cops are militarized these days.  Look at Ferguson, they did their best to shut it down quickly.  I'm not so sure we would get away with as much as you think.



Our cops worse than their mafia cops? America must be a horrible place. ::)


In regards to the 5 Billion in aid to Ukraine over two decades, how much did we also give to Russia over the same period of time?  Would be very interesting to know that.  Again, do as I say, not as I do.



We paid Russia much more in hopes they'd behave and grow to be a productive partner in trade just as Germany and Japan has. Even during the crisis in Ukraine our government has bought overpriced Russian military hardware probably to get money into someone's hands to motivate them.


Russia plays the same games around the world. They got NGO's in Europe to get the public to pressure their governments to lift sanctions and they are currently courting Greece's new pro Russian government by offering Greece money to help with their economy.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline AC

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« Reply #2356 on: January 30, 2015, 05:40:52 PM »
Ah, here you reveal Your naivitee (sorry, don't know how to formulate properly). Thos fine institutions you mentioned are exactly what Washington use to subvert and foment internal revolutions in a country where it's paymasters covet the Resources. That is precisely why Putin made these organizations register as Foreign entities a few years back. The west hypocritically of course yelled foul play. Only that this exact thing was done in the US decades earlier. But as we all know, different standards for different People, and no standards for the INDISPENSIBLE ones...(you know, the empire).


The amount you state was 5 Billion over two decades.  I can pretty much assure you that Russian NGO's etc. got a similar amount over a similar time period.  So why are you not protesting that?  You know why?  Because some Russian Oligarchs and cronies of Putin stole a lot of that money.  Down a rabbit hole.  And corruption and theft in Ukraine is just as bad.  Your narrative that some money which was most probably stolen by thieves is absurd and lacks any rational basis for claiming that the USA unduly influenced Ukraine. 

Offline Изумруд

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« Reply #2357 on: January 30, 2015, 05:43:31 PM »
It's not difficult to understand why the west is trying sooooo hard to shut down Russia Today. Real folks have a tendency to eventually gravitate towards truths when they Discover the daily dose of propaganda doesn't add up.

In regards to RT: that has to be one of the most wilfully uneducated posts I've seen on this forum; here is your truthful RT on phosphorous munitions in Slovyansk and the evidence of International Human Rights Watch:



Quote
the Kremlin-controlled and pro-Kremlin media presented inaccurate evidence to
ground accusations that Ukrainian forces used white phosphorus munitions. The incident
reflected not only the Kremlin’s determination to discredit the Ukrainian government at all
costs, but also recognition that many countries consider use of white phosphorus weapon
worthy of condemnation. On June 11, 2014, LifeNews (a private pro-Kremlin Russian news
outlet) reported that pro-Russian insurgents claimed a village near the then-separatist
stronghold of Slovyansk had been attacked with white phosphorus weapons.18 The LifeNews
story included footage of a descending luminous substance. On June 12, Russia’s Permanent
Representative to the United Nations expressed outrage at the alleged use of white
phosphorus, which he described as a “prohibited” and “forbidden” weapon.19 Ukraine denied
using the weapon, and Human Rights Watch arms experts later concluded that the footage in
this particular attack did not depict white phosphorus or any other type of incendiary
weapon.

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/Incendiary%20Weapons_Recent%20Use%20and%20Growing%20Opposition_Nov2014_final.pdf

Offline AC

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« Reply #2358 on: January 30, 2015, 05:49:11 PM »
No dear Bo, I don't know the Whole truth. Not even part of the Whole truth. But I do believe I know a lie when I see it. Especially about the Ukrainian situation in which I have read and watched countless of hours.


You've gone on and on about alleged Nazi's in Kiev and in W. Ukraine so it's painfully obvious that you watch only RT and other such which is approved by your wife.

I challenge you to go and spend at least two weeks in Kiev and any other major Ukrainian city and look and see for yourself as well as meeting the real people who are suffering from Russia's illegal invasion.  Once you get out from under the Orwellian like propaganda and meet some real people you will see how dreadfully wrong you've been.  And make sure and take your wife with you so she can observe reality versus the lies and fantasy of RT.

Offline The Natural

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« Reply #2359 on: January 30, 2015, 05:51:44 PM »

We paid Russia much more in hopes they'd behave and grow to be a productive partner in trade just as Germany and Japan has.

Hahaha, is it possible? Do you hear yourself as you type, or see the written result?
The US government has seen Russia as their enemy since befoe WW2. Where the fuck to you get the nerve to say the US pay ANYTHING just to enable another country to get up and ahead and be peaceful? Germany? Japan? Along wit hte UK, they are the biggest lap-dogs of the US. Don't feel proud, because it's not for you, it's for the plutocracy........

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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« Reply #2360 on: January 30, 2015, 05:52:09 PM »

Most people don't need an explanation but for those who do, I will explain. Yanu stole billions from the Ukrainian people. If an American Prez did the same thing, the Prez would have to steal trillions for Americans to feel the same pain in the pocketbook as Ukrainians have felt.



haha  No, when it comes to your logic, I think it's best you just go and try to explain yourself.  We just print more money, Billy, and the pain goes away.  ;) 


Quote
Our cops worse than their mafia cops? America must be a horrible place. ::)


This guy doesn't seem to happy to be confronted by "police".







Just another day looking for speeders.







These are a rioters and looters.







These are freedom fighters.







These are mafia cops.




« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 05:56:37 PM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline AC

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« Reply #2361 on: January 30, 2015, 05:59:28 PM »
Hahaha, is it possible? Do you hear yourself as you type, or see the written result?
The US government has seen Russia as their enemy since befoe WW2. Where the fuck to you get the nerve to say the US pay ANYTHING just to enable another country to get up and ahead and be peaceful? Germany? Japan? Along wit hte UK, they are the biggest lap-dogs of the US. Don't feel proud, because it's not for you, it's for the plutocracy........

Oh yes, the lap dog theory.  Nobody wants to be lap dogs, now do they?  What you are really saying is that Russians don't want to be law abiding members of the World community and respect their neighbors, and the sovereign boundaries of their neighbors country.  No the Russian people would much rather be lap dogs to a criminal thug like Putin, then be responsible citizens of the World.

Offline The Natural

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« Reply #2362 on: January 30, 2015, 06:06:47 PM »
You've gone on and on about alleged Nazi's in Kiev and in W. Ukraine so it's painfully obvious that you watch only RT and other such which is approved by your wife.

I challenge you to go and spend at least two weeks in Kiev and any other major Ukrainian city and look and see for yourself as well as meeting the real people who are suffering from Russia's illegal invasion.  Once you get out from under the Orwellian like propaganda and meet some real people you will see how dreadfully wrong you've been.  And make sure and take your wife with you so she can observe reality versus the lies and fantasy of RT.

I watch only RT? I'm sorry to say this, but you sound like an idiot to me. Actually, I watch very little RT because the TV upstairs is occupied by the little one. However, I read the national newspapers every day, as well as national TV, and it's all covering EVERY DAY statements from Ukrainian officials how many 1000's Russians invaded today. By now it should be millions of Russian soldiers there in Donbass, but somewhat those American satelittes don't work, so we unfortunately can't see any of the massive troop movements.

Then you finish by giving me advice, ha. Let me give you a piece of advice. Oh, it must be so macho for you tough Americans to sit a continent away and talk about war. But what if you were sent to the Donbass area to fight, alongside Your nazi buddies? And then if you were captured by the ones fighting for their own self-existance? What do you think they would do to Your fat American ass then? Kiss it?


Offline BillyB

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« Reply #2363 on: January 30, 2015, 06:14:19 PM »
Where the fuck to you get the nerve to say the US pay ANYTHING just to enable another country to get up and ahead and be peaceful?




America paid billions to help reduce Russia's WMD(Weapons of mass destruction)  over 20+ years to make the world a safer place. We even took some off their hands to be destroyed in America. Putin rejected to continue to receive money and stay in that plan past 2012. He must've figured that he's going to need lots of WMD to accomplish his goals. I'm not going to spend too much time educating you on other areas we financially help Russia but Google is your friend.


"The Department of Defense Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) Program, also known as the Nunn-Lugar Program, was created for the purpose of securing and dismantling weapons of mass destruction and their associated infrastructure in the former states of the Soviet Union. Founded by Senators Sam Nunn (D-GA) and Richard Lugar (R-IN) through the passage of the Soviet Threat Reduction Act in November 1991, the program aimed to address the large nuclear arsenals inherited by former Soviet states Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan after the Soviet Union’s collapse."


Clickity Here

« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 06:33:10 PM by BillyB »
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline AC

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« Reply #2364 on: January 30, 2015, 06:19:39 PM »
I watch only RT? I'm sorry to say this, but you sound like an idiot to me. Actually, I watch very little RT because the TV upstairs is occupied by the little one. However, I read the national newspapers every day, as well as national TV, and it's all covering EVERY DAY statements from Ukrainian officials how many 1000's Russians invaded today. By now it should be millions of Russian soldiers there in Donbass, but somewhat those American satelittes don't work, so we unfortunately can't see any of the massive troop movements.

Then you finish by giving me advice, ha. Let me give you a piece of advice. Oh, it must be so macho for you tough Americans to sit a continent away and talk about war. But what if you were sent to the Donbass area to fight, alongside Your nazi buddies? And then if you were captured by the ones fighting for their own self-existance? What do you think they would do to Your fat American ass then? Kiss it?

More idiotic droning about alleged Nazi's in Ukraine.  The only ones are the Russian Nazi's and skinheads gone to war in Ukraine against "ukrops" their derogatory term for Ukrainians.  In fact it's well documented how Russia has a very real problem with racist skinheads and others who drag their country down. 

On the other hand Poroshenko is Jewish, and Jews are welcome and safe in Ukraine.  The largest Jewish center in the World is in Dnepropetrovsk.  Have you ever been there?  Oh that's right, you just like to spew lies from your recliner.

Other then that you clearly have a comprehension problem.  I did not tell you to go and fight in Donbas, I told you to go and visit in Kiev or any other real Ukrainian city.  You won't do it, because you are too comfortable spewing nonsense here then to go and see how wrong you are.

Offline JayH

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« Reply #2365 on: January 30, 2015, 06:31:47 PM »
Still falling and likely to keep going-

1.00 USD   =   69.5850 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 69.5850 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0143709 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-31 01:25 UTC

An interesting-- but desperate move --
Russian central bank makes surprise interest rate cut
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's central bank unexpectedly cut its main interest rate on Friday as fears of recession mount in the country following the fall in global oil prices and Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-central-bank-makes-surprise-104347116.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #2366 on: January 30, 2015, 06:50:14 PM »
Still falling and likely to keep going-

1.00 USD   =   69.5850 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 69.5850 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0143709 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-31 01:25 UTC

An interesting-- but desperate move --
Russian central bank makes surprise interest rate cut
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's central bank unexpectedly cut its main interest rate on Friday as fears of recession mount in the country following the fall in global oil prices and Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-central-bank-makes-surprise-104347116.html


You 'forgot' to mention the oil price...but let me help you with that one!  It was up 7.5% today to $47.85. 


Your welcome!  :D


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline The Natural

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« Reply #2367 on: January 30, 2015, 07:09:51 PM »

America paid billions to help reduce Russia's WMD(Weapons of mass destruction)  over 20+ years to make the world a safer place.

You (and millions more) misunderstood. It was to Ensure the rulers in Washington were to be the ONLY rulers of the world. Easy to misunderstand, I know....


We even took some off their hands to be destroyed in America. Putin rejected to continue to receive money and stay in that plan past 2012. He must've figured that he's going to need lots of WMD to accomplish his goals. I'm not going to spend too much time educating you on other areas we financially help Russia but Google is your friend.

Hehe, I'm glad you value my time so much. I guess from Your vantage point you're in the thick of it, deep inside The Empire, whereas I'm just a digital print of one of the smallest lap-dogs of the EMPIRE. 

Listen Billy, and you're far from the worst, but the lies Americans and other westerners print online, is going to bite us real bad in the future....

Clickity Here
[/quote]

Offline jone

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« Reply #2368 on: January 30, 2015, 07:15:27 PM »
More idiotic droning about alleged Nazi's in Ukraine.  The only ones are the Russian Nazi's and skinheads gone to war in Ukraine against "ukrops" their derogatory term for Ukrainians.  In fact it's well documented how Russia has a very real problem with racist skinheads and others who drag their country down. 

On the other hand Poroshenko is Jewish, and Jews are welcome and safe in Ukraine.  The largest Jewish center in the World is in Dnepropetrovsk.  Have you ever been there?  Oh that's right, you just like to spew lies from your recliner.

Other then that you clearly have a comprehension problem.  I did not tell you to go and fight in Donbas, I told you to go and visit in Kiev or any other real Ukrainian city.  You won't do it, because you are too comfortable spewing nonsense here then to go and see how wrong you are.

Funny thing.

I always thought the Jewish center of the world was Israel.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

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« Reply #2369 on: January 30, 2015, 07:24:30 PM »
You (and millions more) misunderstood. It was to Ensure the rulers in Washington were to be the ONLY rulers of the world. Easy to misunderstand, I know....





And we got away with it. That's why you are so pissed.


Heh, heh, heh
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

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« Reply #2370 on: January 30, 2015, 08:38:42 PM »
Funny thing.

I always thought the Jewish center of the world was Israel.

That may be so, however I don't mean literally.  That said I appreciate your comment.

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« Reply #2371 on: January 31, 2015, 06:48:55 AM »
It would be interesting to see how all of this is affecting the ability for an average Russian to get a visa to the US (or any other country). For Ukrainians it might be easier. I have two thoughts on this though as the US may make it more difficult for Ukrainians as well to get a visa because they might think they are a greater risk to stay now and become like a refugee.


OTOH they may make it easier just to say screw you Russia(ns). My in-laws recently applied for visas in Ukraine. They were asked if they were Russian or Ukrainian at the interview. They both received 10 year multi-entry visas to the US. So my limited subset of empirical evidence points to "easier for Ukrainians" now.
Take time to learn the language. Even a little can go a long ways...

Get off your butt and go! Don't make excuses why you can't do it, find a way to make it work! Always go with a backup plan too!!!

Offline mendeleyev

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« Reply #2372 on: January 31, 2015, 07:03:20 AM »
Taz, I was just thinking about that. The Moscow Times had a recent article on Russia's consideration of new requirements for visas. Those are proposed to include very detailed questions about one's relatives and contacts inside Russia, and where one will travel, and why. If passed, and they likely will, this will represent a large roll back on the ease of visas put together during the Medvedev administration and then cleared soon after Mr. Putin returned to office.
The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline Изумруд

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #2373 on: January 31, 2015, 09:44:59 AM »
Some photos of Pavel Gubarev, former leader of the DPR.  So just who are the real Nazis?

Offline Boethius

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #2374 on: January 31, 2015, 11:18:35 AM »
Ah, here you reveal Your naivitee (sorry, don't know how to formulate properly). Thos fine institutions you mentioned are exactly what Washington use to subvert and foment internal revolutions in a country where it's paymasters covet the Resources. That is precisely why Putin made these organizations register as Foreign entities a few years back. The west hypocritically of course yelled foul play. Only that this exact thing was done in the US decades earlier. But as we all know, different standards for different People, and no standards for the INDISPENSIBLE ones...(you know, the empire).


No, those institutions in Ukraine are "homegrown", with the expertise of advisors.  The Razumkov organization - http://www.razumkov.org.ua/eng/index.php is one such example.  The Mohyla Academy, now the preeminent academic institution in the country, is another.  Yup, part of "empire building".


Putin banned some NGO's, including the LDS Church.  We can't have people come to God in the way they desire, after all, nor have the Church do such nefarious things such as furnish a classroom in the boonies.

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But you Bo, make the same mistake (aren't you a Canadian now?) as many Americans make when someone criticize their policy, they equate their COUNTRY to their government!!!!!


Yes, I am Canadian.  Thanks for remembering. :)   But many here do equate the country and government.

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No dear Bo, I don't know the Whole truth. Not even part of the Whole truth. But I do believe I know a lie when I see it. Especially about the Ukrainian situation in which I have read and watched countless of hours.


You have already come to the Ukrainian situation with your mind made up.  I did not support the removal of Yanukovych, I didn't believe he had stolen hundreds of millions, but now I know this is true. 

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You don't believe in conspiracy theories Bo, really? As far as I understand you, you believe that the Russian government has conspired to invade the Donbass area of Ukraine and then lie about it to "the international" society.


They did foment invasion, and have been lying about it.  No conspiracy theory there.


After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

 

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