Parables to describe FSU countries

[Muzh]

The answers are up there.  If you don't like them or you are too blind to read them and comprehend them, that's on you.  We can agree to disagree.

Can anybody else point me to his answer how fluoridation is a poison?


Did he edited it out of the original response because I really can find anything stating how fluoride is a poison.

[Boethius]

No, he just stated it and referred to Europe. 

[AC]

Can anybody else point me to his answer how fluoridation is a poison?


Did he edit it out of the original response because I really can't find anything stating how fluoride is a poison.

There, I fixed your typos for you.  Wasn't that Gentlemanly of me?   

[Anotherkiwi]

Wow!  This thread seems to have gained a life of its own since I last looked at it yesterday.

I've found those that like to argue grammar and spelling do so because they don't actually have anything of substance to add.

Nice fancy reply, but you still didn't actually answer the question!

I've never been to NZ but I've been to Australia.

No problem - it means that the best is still to come!

You all don't speak English over there. 

In respect of Australia, I would sometimes agree - but it's only us that are allowed to say so!

Since you want to criticize my English, I've taken the liberty of highlighting a few issues of your own.

You're nothing like the former British Empire, because you were originally PART OF the British Empire!  Although it fought a successful War of Independence from the British, the USA never followed up its new-found freedom by exploring or colonising the earth in the same way as the great European powers of that time.  Apart from its reluctant participation in the two World Wars, all it has done is invade various places (e.g. The Philippines, Vietnam, Grenada), stay for a while, and then disappear back home.

Don't get me wrong - the USA is a great country, and has achieved an incredible amount, but a nation of explorers it is not.  So many of your people seem content to stay at home forever, marvelling at their own country's wonders (which is fair enough), but never considering that there may be things in the rest of the world which are just as (or even more) marvellous.

Even your wonderful space programme (not necessarily the manned part), with all the benefits it has brought the world, seems to have far more detractors than supporters.

What issues might those be?  That Americans spell their words differently from the rest of the English-speaking world?  I have news for you, bud - we already know that!

[Bee Farmer]

Can anybody else point me to his answer how fluoridation is a poison?

Prior to WWII, sodium fluoride was considered a toxic waste.  In WWII, it was discovered that ingesting sodium fluoride causes docility and pacified people in concentration camps.  It alters the brain and takes away their resistance to being dominated.

It is purported that the US sent fluoride to our concentration camps by the trainload.

Once it was also discovered that there were dental benefits for children under 12 years of age, fluoride has been added to municipal water ever since.  Mind control for the masses, and you get rid of toxic waste via the human kidneys.

[AC]

Prior to WWII, sodium fluoride was considered a toxic waste.  In WWII, it was discovered that ingesting sodium fluoride causes docility and pacified people in concentration camps.  It alters the brain and takes away their resistance to being dominated.

Yep.  But the government mouthpiece says that it's perfectly safe.   

Perhaps feminists have secretly been giving it to AM for decades...


 

[Muzh]

There, I fixed your typos for you.  Wasn't that Gentlemanly of me?   

You give more importance to a typo than to your credibility hanging on a thread?

[Muzh]

Prior to WWII, sodium fluoride was considered a toxic waste.  In WWII, it was discovered that ingesting sodium fluoride causes docility and pacified people in concentration camps.  It alters the brain and takes away their resistance to being dominated.

It is purported that the US sent fluoride to our concentration camps by the trainload.

Once it was also discovered that there were dental benefits for children under 12 years of age, fluoride has been added to municipal water ever since.  Mind control for the masses, and you get rid of toxic waste via the human kidneys.

Bravo! You sort of answered for Antrubi.


Now, I'm assuming that based on this fact you are convinced fluoridating the water is toxic. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong.


Now I would like to ask you what do you think of the following as being toxic.


Zinc, copper, manganese, chromium, molybdenum and selenium. Are they toxic? Would you ingest any or all of them?


Zinc - GIT disorders.
Manganese - CNS disorder
Chromium - VI+ classified as Known carcinogen by the NTP, and as Group 1 by IARC
Molybdenum - UT infection above 5E-3 mg/kg/day consumption
Selenium - gets you bald and toothless 


Would you ingest any of these on a daily basis?

[AC]

You give more importance to a typo than to your credibility hanging on a thread?

That's your opinion.  This isn't a court of law, and other than a few whack-jobs who think it is, we are free to express our opinions and no need to write a dissertation to prove them.

As I stated I prefer to be careful and if possible drink water which is not fluoridated.  I prefer to trust my own judgement and trust the fact that for thousands of years people drank water without fluoridation.

Now if you, being a former government mouthpiece thinks it is safe and wants to ingest it and allow your family to ingest it, have at it, your choice.

Furthermore, as I already stated, if you don't like my answer or my opinions, that's fine.  Your opinion about "credibility" or anything else means didley squat to me.

Some 50 years ago Medical Doctors were claiming that cigarette smoking was perfectly safe and they even made TV commercials to that effect.  We all know what happened to that theory.

[Muzh]

That's your opinion.  This isn't a court of law, and other than a few whack-jobs who think it is, we are free to express our opinions and no need to write a dissertation to prove them.

As I stated I prefer to be careful and if possible drink water which is not fluoridated.  I prefer to trust my own judgement and trust the fact that for thousands of years people drank water without fluoridation.

Now if you, being a former government mouthpiece thinks it is safe and wants to ingest it and allow your family to ingest it, have at it, your choice.

Furthermore, as I already stated, if you don't like my answer or my opinions, that's fine.  Your opinion about "credibility" or anything else means didley squat to me.

Some 50 years ago Medical Doctors were claiming that cigarette smoking was perfectly safe and they even made TV commercials to that effect.  We all know what happened to that theory.

So first you STATED that fluoride is a form of poison and now you CLAIM that was your opinion.


Understood.


You got caught with your pants down.

[Anotherkiwi]

As I stated I prefer to be careful and if possible drink water which is not fluoridated.  I prefer to trust my own judgement and trust the fact that for thousands of years people drank water without fluoridation.

I can see your logic, BUT there's a big hole in that theory - those people to whom you refer did not live nearly as long as people do today, and their dental hygiene was crap (to put it politely).  Since fluoride was introduced into water supplies here (and there are still some councils that don't include it), the incidence of dental caries (tooth decay) has plummeted, with a consequence of huge savings in healthcare costs.  It does, of course, get negated by the amount of sugary drinks that people consume, but you can't have everything.

Now if you, being a former government mouthpiece thinks it is safe and wants to ingest it and allow your family to ingest it, have at it, your choice.

I'm with Muzh on this one.  You're more likely to be poisoned by a glass of strong beer than the minute amount of fluoride in the water.

Furthermore, as I already stated, if you don't like my answer or my opinions, that's fine.  Your opinion about "credibility" or anything else means didley squat to me.

You keep your opinions - that's your right, and nobody will disagree with that.  We'll just disagree with the opinion itself. 

Some 50 years ago Medical Doctors were claiming that cigarette smoking was perfectly safe and they even made TV commercials to that effect.  We all know what happened to that theory.

Agreed, but do you not believe that the same amount of research has gone into the benefits (and drawbacks) of fluoridation?

[Bee Farmer]

Now, I'm assuming that based on this fact you are convinced fluoridating the water is toxic. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, when it is fluoridated with sodium fluoride.

Zinc, copper, manganese, chromium, molybdenum and selenium. Are they toxic? Would you ingest any or all of them?

It depends.  What form is being ingested, and in what quantity?  You have listed elements.  Characteristics and traits of compounds involving those elements are totally different from the element itself.

The Nazis used cyanide gas to kill millions of Jews in WWII.  Apple seeds and almonds also have cyanide in them.  Are almonds toxic?

Di-hydrogen monoxide kills thousands of people a year in the US.  Would you ingest it?

Agreed, but do you not believe that the same amount of research has gone into the benefits (and drawbacks) of fluoridation?

No.

[Anotherkiwi]

The Nazis used cyanide gas to kill millions of Jews in WWII.  Apple seeds and almonds also have cyanide in them.  Are almonds toxic?

Yes - to me, and many others.

[SANDRO43]

Di-hydrogen monoxide kills thousands of people a year in the US. Would you ingest it? No.

Yes, and I've done so for many decades, since its formula is H₂O and is commonly called water.

[calmissile]

Good one Sandro   

Also see.....

http://www.snopes.com/science/dhmo.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax

I see Bee Farmer has put his tin hat back on.  As I recall he was going to go to Ukraine and show them how to raise honey bees.  Wonder how much influence he had on Ukraine bee farming?  Re-reading his posts from a year or so ago was entertaining.   

[AC]

I can see your logic, BUT there's a big hole in that theory - those people to whom you refer did not live nearly as long as people do today, and their dental hygiene was crap (to put it politely).  Since fluoride was introduced into water supplies here (and there are still some councils that don't include it), the incidence of dental caries (tooth decay) has plummeted, with a consequence of huge savings in healthcare costs.  It does, of course, get negated by the amount of sugary drinks that people consume, but you can't have everything.

There were many other things related to short life-spans of previous generations.  Trying to infer or claim that fluoride alone resulted in so much improvement is a stretch.

[Muzh]

Yes, when it is fluoridated with sodium fluoride.

It depends.  What form is being ingested, and in what quantity?  You have listed elements.  Characteristics and traits of compounds involving those elements are totally different from the element itself.

The Nazis used cyanide gas to kill millions of Jews in WWII.  Apple seeds and almonds also have cyanide in them.  Are almonds toxic?

Di-hydrogen monoxide kills thousands of people a year in the US.  Would you ingest it?

No.

Boy, you are quite a contradiction. 

[Muzh]

Yes, and I've done so for many decades, since its formula is H₂O and is commonly called water.

LMAO


If you want facts, go to the scientists. If you want hysteria then go to the demagogues.

[mendeleyev]

The MJ office is located in an area where many Muslims have chosen to live in Moscow. I daily see signs that advertise Halal products--mostly meat, that has been butchered and processed in a specific way.

When preparing Shashlik, I have enough respect for those markets that I am not going to walk inside and demand that they prepare pork for my picnic. I respect their religious rights to refrain from offering that. Besides, they are not the only meat markets in town--I have other choices. In the same vein, neither would I demand that they cater a special event that requires them to provide alcohol. I do not think any less of them for those views, but I just have enough intelligence, and enough respect for their right to practice their faith, to not try to impose my views of pork or alcohol on their religion.

I think that in America the general public has lost any remaining shred of common sense. It would be just plain stupid of me to walk into a bakery and threaten that they if they refuse to bake a cake for a Westboro Baptist event, then I'll sue for discrimination. It is dumb to say that "well, they shouldn't be allowed to be in business" just because my request goes against the religious views of another. That is not discrimination, it is a situation that calls for mutual respect.

A gay photographer might not feel comfortable photographing a conference at certain conservative and/or religious functions. It would be just as disrespectful to demand that he do so in violation of his/her views. Get a clue--there are lots of photographers from which to choose. It seems that the only diversity allowed in some societies is the diversity that is acceptable to certain groups.

Diversity works both ways. Mutual respect is a two-way street.

[Muzh]

The MJ office is located in an area where many Muslims have chosen to live in Moscow. I daily see signs that advertise Halal products--mostly meat, that has been butchered and processed in a specific way.

When preparing Shashlik, I have enough respect for those markets that I am not going to walk inside and demand that they prepare pork for my picnic. I respect their religious rights to refrain from offering that. Besides, they are not the only meat markets in town--I have other choices. In the same vein, neither would I demand that they cater a special event that requires them to provide alcohol. I do not think any less of them for those views, but I just have enough intelligence, and enough respect for their right to practice their faith, to not try to impose my views of pork or alcohol on their religion.

I think that in America the general public has lost any remaining shred of common sense. It would be just plain stupid of me to walk into a bakery and threaten that they if they refuse to bake a cake for a Westboro Baptist event, then I'll sue for discrimination. It is dumb to say that "well, they shouldn't be allowed to be in business" just because my request goes against the religious views of another. That is not discrimination, it is a situation that calls for mutual respect.

A gay photographer might not feel comfortable photographing a conference at certain conservative and/or religious functions. It would be just as disrespectful to demand that he do so in violation of his/her views. Get a clue--there are lots of photographers from which to choose. It seems that the only diversity allowed in some societies is the diversity that is acceptable to certain groups.

Diversity works both ways. Mutual respect is a two-way street.

Mendy, I agree that respect is is a two-way street.


You, in the examples above, know their religious customs and do adhere to them, therefore, showing your respect.


However, a bakery in the US will, 99.9% of the time, will take your money for what you order. That's the American religion. If baker is offended because a guy asks for a birthday cake for his boyfriend and refuses to do so, I'm almost positive that 99.9% of the time the guy will take his business where his money is accepted. Again, the American religion.


Only the exception to the rules are the ones you hear in the news. And in business, these exceptions don't last long in business.

[Larry1]

The MJ office is located in an area where many Muslims have chosen to live in Moscow. I daily see signs that advertise Halal products--mostly meat, that has been butchered and processed in a specific way.

When preparing Shashlik, I have enough respect for those markets that I am not going to walk inside and demand that they prepare pork for my picnic. I respect their religious rights to refrain from offering that. Besides, they are not the only meat markets in town--I have other choices. In the same vein, neither would I demand that they cater a special event that requires them to provide alcohol. I do not think any less of them for those views, but I just have enough intelligence, and enough respect for their right to practice their faith, to not try to impose my views of pork or alcohol on their religion.

I think that in America the general public has lost any remaining shred of common sense. It would be just plain stupid of me to walk into a bakery and threaten that they if they refuse to bake a cake for a Westboro Baptist event, then I'll sue for discrimination. It is dumb to say that "well, they shouldn't be allowed to be in business" just because my request goes against the religious views of another. That is not discrimination, it is a situation that calls for mutual respect.

I agree.  It is absurd that an agency of the government can levy large fines and/or attorneys fees on people who, because of their religious convictions, do not want to sell a wedding cake for a same sex wedding or take photographs of that wedding.  This has already happened. The photographer was in New Mexico and the bakery was in Oregon.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The MJ office is located in an area where many Muslims have chosen to live in Moscow. I daily see signs that advertise Halal products--mostly meat, that has been butchered and processed in a specific way.

When preparing Shashlik, I have enough respect for those markets that I am not going to walk inside and demand that they prepare pork for my picnic. I respect their religious rights to refrain from offering that. Besides, they are not the only meat markets in town--I have other choices. In the same vein, neither would I demand that they cater a special event that requires them to provide alcohol. I do not think any less of them for those views, but I just have enough intelligence, and enough respect for their right to practice their faith, to not try to impose my views of pork or alcohol on their religion.

I think that in America the general public has lost any remaining shred of common sense. It would be just plain stupid of me to walk into a bakery and threaten that they if they refuse to bake a cake for a Westboro Baptist event, then I'll sue for discrimination. It is dumb to say that "well, they shouldn't be allowed to be in business" just because my request goes against the religious views of another. That is not discrimination, it is a situation that calls for mutual respect.

A gay photographer might not feel comfortable photographing a conference at certain conservative and/or religious functions. It would be just as disrespectful to demand that he do so in violation of his/her views. Get a clue--there are lots of photographers from which to choose. It seems that the only diversity allowed in some societies is the diversity that is acceptable to certain groups.

Diversity works both ways. Mutual respect is a two-way street.

I disagree.  First of all, I never have any idea of what religion a business owner has when I go into their establishments.   It is of no concern for me.  I am only interested in the service they are performing.  If a gay wedding wants a cake they don't go around to bakeries asking if they are Christians to make sure it's ok to spend money there.


If they cannot perform the service, for everyone, they shouldn't be in business.  It's ok if they don't want to be in business because they don't want to serve particular groups.  They just don't need to be in business.   


To say they will perform a service for some people, but not others is discrimination.  I don't know how you can say otherwise. 


You examples of muslims serving pork and alcohol do not make sense to me.  I doubt that would be a service they offer to begin with.  Now, if they did offer that service, but only to fellow muslims, then that would be discrimination.

[Boethius]

I agree.  It is absurd that an agency of the government can levy large fines and/or attorneys fees on people who, because of their religious convictions, do not want to sell a wedding cake for a same sex wedding or take photographs of that wedding.  This has already happened. The photographer was in New Mexico and the bakery was in Oregon.

I don't think the situations are analogous.  The Christians refusing service should ask themselves, WWJD?

[Larry1]

I don't think the situations are analogous.  The Christians refusing service should ask themselves, WWJD?

Someone can try to argue them out of their religious beliefs, but I think it's wrong for the state to be able to compel them to provide photographic service or make a wedding cake for a wedding they believe violates their religious convictions.

Mendy's analogy to the Westboro Baptist Church above is spot on. I think it would be absurd to compel a business owner to perform a service for the Westboro Baptist Church if he objects to its actions (as I do).

[Boethius]

But where does it end?  If I am an anti Semite, do I get to deny service to Jews?


I'm not certain non discrimination laws are the answer.  Education is.