More Bad News for Russia

[AkMike]

I'm well aware of all those nuances. I'm ignoring them and restating the obvious just for you.

[msmobyone]

I'm well aware of all those nuances. I'm ignoring them and restating the obvious just for you.

If that was true - I wouldn't need to repeat myself - when you post 'daft' about

1/ using stealth fighters to 'mock attack' Russian ships

2/ the non transgression by either party of recognised waters....

[BC]

#1. If you've got it flaunt it.

#2. The US as well as other NATO countries patrol the Black Sea as well as the Baltic and all other waters of the world.  They aren't in Russian waters.

As to #1 yes, and both sides will do it and test the limits. 

As to #2 aside from the Black Sea restrictions Moby mentioned the US is increasingly using 'Freedom of Navigation' to assert presence in disputed waters.  I expect reactions from the countries involved will also over time increase.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/26/china-tops-us-list-of-countries-targeted-in-freedom-of-navigation-exercises

The US military carried out freedom of navigation operations against 13 countries in 2015, including several against China for what it views as excessive claims to maritime and airspace jurisdiction, the Pentagon has said.

Such tit for tat military actions have been going on for ages, largely unnoticed by the public.

Overall it reminds me too much of the Cold War days.. indeed getting a bit chilly lately.

Anyone notice that when economies tank, the first reactions is to build up armed forces?  Makes a bit of sense.. fuel is cheap, plenty of cheap labor with little else to do, the economy gets a little 'kick' and everyone gets to flex their muscles..  Sending navies and air forces across the planet ain't cheap, but with fuel prices so low it's a bargain nowadays so folks will take advantage.  Maybe that's why oil prices are perking up a bit? hehe

[JayH]

As to #1 yes, and both sides will do it and test the limits. 

As to #2 aside from the Black Sea restrictions Moby mentioned the US is increasingly using 'Freedom of Navigation' to assert presence in disputed waters.  I expect reactions from the countries involved will also over time increase.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/26/china-tops-us-list-of-countries-targeted-in-freedom-of-navigation-exercises

Such tit for tat military actions have been going on for ages, largely unnoticed by the public.

Overall it reminds me too much of the Cold War days.. indeed getting a bit chilly lately.

Anyone notice that when economies tank, the first reactions is to build up armed forces?  Makes a bit of sense.. fuel is cheap, plenty of cheap labor with little else to do, the economy gets a little 'kick' and everyone gets to flex their muscles..  Sending navies and air forces across the planet ain't cheap, but with fuel prices so low it's a bargain nowadays so folks will take advantage.  Maybe that's why oil prices are perking up a bit? hehe

 A bit chilly lately?   You just noticed ?!!

Using wars as a diversion-- duh-- did anyone notice? Well yes--I wrote about it about 2 years ago  !!  Also provided many links of various very qualified writers  on exactly that topic!!   Of course-- like a few others-- you don't read links-no wonder you are about 2 years behind what is going on!

[msmobyone]

I don't get the impression that BC is not 'aware' of the worsening situation..... In fact - I'd say his viewpoint was must cognisant and balanced.

[JayH]

At last more help is coming for Ukraine.What it really needs is for US to stop talking-- and start doing. Multiple every Russian piece of aggression by 2  and call Putin's childish bluffing.Obama has made the attempt to pacify-- and been treated with contempt- now it is time to use the big sticks available.


US prepares to take a resonant bill on Ukraine, which could destroy Russia economically forever

http://www.dialog.ua/news/84771_1461964387

http://www.yahoo.com/news/us-congress-passes-russia-sanctions-arms-ukraine-054621335.html?ref=gs

http://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2828

[JayH]

Poverty Russian villages is particularly evident in comparison with beautiful villages, which are in Ukrainian Transcarpathia.

"Special show for you to look like a healthy person of the village. Photos are taken from the window of the train, somewhere between Mukachevo and Uzhgorod. Once again - between modest Mukachevo and Uzhgorod, not on the highway connecting the capital of the empire pretentious, Moscow and St. Petersburg ", - says the blogger.



Russian and Ukrainian Village Village: the difference in living standards is shocking. picture story

http://obozrevatel.com/society/89503-rossijskie-derevni-i-ukrainskie-sela-raznitsa-urovnya-zhizni-shokiruet--fotoreportazh.htm

[JayH]

Despite all the bluster and bluffing of Russia( let alone the invented lies) the western countries are easing nothing--in fact-the talk is of increasing sanctions on Russia.

"Settling the crisis in the east of Ukraine is the primary goal for France. Together with Germany, we will continue to mediate the crisis between Ukraine and Russia in order to achieve progress in the implementation of the Minsk Agreements," the Ambassador of France said at the meeting of the UN Security Council.

"Our goal is to take back control of Ukraine, across the internationally recognized border, as well as to restore Ukrainian authority in Crimea. In this regard, our position, which is consistent with international law, will not change," Delattre added.
France demands that Ukrainian authority be restored in Crimea

http://uawire.org/news/france-demands-that-ukrainian-authority-be-restored-in-crimea

[BC]

Jay,

Regarding your last three posts, which could have been easily condensed into one if you wouldn't insist on SHOUTING

First, allowing more arms to flow into UA will only escalate tensions in the region and not lead to a real solution.
I wouldn't expect UA to be able to pay for arms and doubt much if any credit will be given.   You can bet that RU will double down if US starts to arm UA.

Second, what's the point in the village post.  A drive through rural NC or West Virginia looks a lot worse than pictures in the article.  Yes all countries has eyesores..  Why aren't we beating up India?

Third, I highly doubt Obama will sign off on the bill.  Lets see what happens as further discourse may be for naught.

Overall the situation in UA is brought about by her weaknesses, mainly corruption that destroyed the country's finances and inability to properly govern without outside 'assistance'.. much of which in the past was borne by RU.  The West with words of bluster will not be able to fill the gap and without credit guarantees are not going to pour in money and assets which will mostly go to RU anyway in one form or another to repay billions of UA sovereign debt. 

This whole situation with Donetsk and Crimea is a direct result the inability of UA to straighten up her act and live up to it's deals with either the East or West.

Interesting though is that China seems to be playing a greater role in UA..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/07/24/hey-putin-have-you-seen-how-much-china-is-investing-in-ukraine/

Ukraine has become the largest corn exporter to China, surpassing the United States. This was surprising, as America has historically possessed a near-monopoly on corn exports to China. Ukraine’s increased role in providing food for China also extends beyond corn. Since the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea, Ukraine has increased its agricultural trade with China by 56 percent.

China knows the rules better in such games and seems to have a knack of basically trading their support for other countries natural resources, in the end becoming de-facto owners of anything worth owning.  Their investments in Africa are astounding but signs are there that in a friendly way they simply scrape off the icing for themselves leaving the population as destitute as it was before.

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/chinas-investments-in-africa-whats-the-real-story/



Both well worth reading / watching.

Although China's economic 'boom' is tampered for the moment so is the rest of the world.  They will pick up again when other economies improve and the show goes on.

Russia, who seem to be more allied with China of course don't object as it lifts some of the UA financial burden without affecting their political power in the region.

[JayH]

It is called a headline--designed to prevent the sort of muddling post you just made.
What a confused way of thinking you have shown-no wonder you are so clueless.


This whole situation with Donetsk and Crimea is a direct result the inability of UA to straighten up her act and live up to it's deals with either the East or West.

Are you really that thick? No answer required-it is plain for all to see.
Like I said--there are 2 years of links here on forum to read to inform yourself.That is my "advice" to you 

[BC]

Are you really that thick? No answer required-it is plain for all to see.
Like I said--there are 2 years of links here on forum to read to inform yourself.That is my "advice" to you 

Jay,
Like you, I also am allowed to express my opinions here. 'muddling' or not is up to the readers here and not you alone.

As to your 'advice'.. thanks but no thanks.

[JayH]

Like others who excuse Putin & Russia you constantly want to overlook the reality--ie Russia is itself to blame for the ills faced by Russia.
You seem to think a few of us on the forum have made the problem!!
Facts are--many others are pointing out MORE BAD NEWS FOR RUSSIA!

Russia waiting for a disaster

Russia is in a deep hole, and if within the next year if Russia does not  get the sanctions withdrawn, the country will face a global catastrophe. The opinion expressed know by Lily Shevtsrva , well-known Russian political scientist . According to her, 60 percent of Russians are assured a year ago that the sanctions do not feel, now the number of such people has decreased significantly, while 40 percent live below the poverty line. Fewer people support Putin - even among the political elite, said Shevtsova. According to her, Putin has spoiled relations with the West, which is of great interest for the Russian elite. If sanctions  continue it will lead to a catastrophe in the economy, as well as to the absolute impoverishment of the Russian people. Putin's rating of 85 percent -.  is not true, and even he  does not  believe . The president and Kremlin certainly has other data about the mood of the Russians

Источник: http://replyua.net/news/putin/28653-shevcova-rossiyu-zhdet-katastrofa.html

[JayH]

And still more bad news-
73 percent of respondents said that if they had the opportunity to live in any country of the world, would have left Russia. And only 23 percent were patriots
73 percent of Russians do not want to live in their own country

http://elise.com.ua/?p=190272#hcq=XuINQJp

[AkMike]

The US Congress is starting to tighten up and add sanctions for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The new legislation that was introduced yesterday and sponsored by both Dems. and Reps. shows support for Ukraine.

A new bill in the U.S. Congress would prevent the White House from lifting a raft of sanctions against Russia until Ukraine restores control over Crimea, which Moscow forcibly annexed in 2014, or settles the peninsula's status to Kyiv's satisfaction "We need to build on our sanctions regime against troublemakers in the Kremlin, while working to preserve transatlantic unity," Engel, the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a statement.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1335160-us-bill-links-russia-sanctions-relief-to-crimeas-return-to-ukraine-rfe-rl.html

[Muzh]

This just in:


Jay insists on educating the whole world that Ukraine is Utopia


www.cananyonebemoredense.com

[AkMike]

Hardly, This thread show that Russia has some serious problems.

 Hence the name, " More Bad News for Russia".

[BC]

The US Congress is starting to tighten up and add sanctions for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The new legislation that was introduced yesterday and sponsored by both Dems. and Reps. shows support for Ukraine.

A new bill in the U.S. Congress would prevent the White House from lifting a raft of sanctions against Russia until Ukraine restores control over Crimea, which Moscow forcibly annexed in 2014, or settles the peninsula's status to Kyiv's satisfaction "We need to build on our sanctions regime against troublemakers in the Kremlin, while working to preserve transatlantic unity," Engel, the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a statement.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1335160-us-bill-links-russia-sanctions-relief-to-crimeas-return-to-ukraine-rfe-rl.html

Short memory Jay?  Repeating yourself on the same page lol
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg429494#msg429494

The rest of us also know how to google..

[BC]

In any case, I highly doubt Congress will become the new dictators of what will or will not happen in UA regardless of how many bills they can push through.

[BC]

Russia, Putin Held in Low Regard around the World

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/08/05/russia-putin-held-in-low-regard-around-the-world/

What the article doesn't mention is that Russia is highly regarded in Vietnam, China and India.. representing a population that is probably greater than the rest of the countries polled together.

Over 2.5 billion... certainly a force to be reckoned with.

In the past these countries did not have much in the way of technology so weren't really considered more than 'cannon fodder' armies, but nowadays probably have more technology, raw resources and skilled workers than many many other countries.  Add Russia's energy and you have a perfectly staged power that simply cannot be beaten.

IMHO the Western World will have do better than threaten and bluster.   The UN is neutralized by veto power of China and Russia who are more closely tied than not.  Russia has also been much more active lately in India's energy sector.

Really, what do all the chest thumpers here think the US or EU for that matter can do against RU.. Start WWIII?

Get realistic folks.. UA will remain RU's back yard.  Better to start finding new, peaceful ways of getting along with these countries.

[JayH]

Short memory Jay?  Repeating yourself on the same page lol
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg429494#msg429494

The rest of us also know how to google..

Errrrr-- No-

You are quoting AkMike post  and aiming at me? perhaps if you look at the time or relevant posts-- and give up the trolling attempts. You can see how ridiculous Muzh looks-- and now you.

[BC]

And still more bad news-
73 percent of respondents said that if they had the opportunity to live in any country of the world, would have left Russia. And only 23 percent were patriots
73 percent of Russians do not want to live in their own country

http://elise.com.ua/?p=190272#hcq=XuINQJp

6 charts showing how Russians see their country and the world

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/12/6-charts-showing-how-russians-see-their-country-and-the-world/

Top 3

Nearly three-quarters in Russia (73%) say that their economy is in bad shape.

Well heck... with the global economic slump and low oil prices, when one figures in RU's oil sector which is an overwhelming part of the economy, overall it's in line with sentiments across the planet.

Despite the negative economic mood in Russia, President Putin still receives overwhelming support from the public.

Kinda amazing isn't it?

Russians do not like the U.S. and other Western powers.

Sanctions and escalation at work..

Is funny how that 73% gets thrown around quite a bit..

13 Percent of Russians Want to Move Abroad – Poll

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/13-percent-of-russians-want-to-move-abroad--poll/530320.html

Are you sure you read your source correctly?  Maybe a native RU speaker could chip in and give a synopsis of what http://elise.com.ua/?p=190272#hcq=XuINQJp really says..

[BC]

Errrrr-- No-

You are quoting AkMike post  and aiming at me? perhaps if you look at the time or relevant posts-- and give up the trolling attempts. You can see how ridiculous Muzh looks-- and now you.

Yeah, was my mistake but ok at least AK has been contributing a bit more in his last posts.  I do sorta get you guys confused with the big fonts and same storylines.

Trolling attempts? nahhhh  just responding in kind.

[JayH]

Really, what do all the chest thumpers here think the US or EU for that matter can do against RU.. Start WWIII?

Get realistic folks.. UA will remain RU's back yard.  Better to start finding new, peaceful ways of getting along with these countries.

Now that sumarises your pathetic  attitude  and ignorance .

What countries do you attempt to include-it is Russia lashing out and behaving in a disgusting manner-- RUSSIA
Are you really such a simpleton that you think anyone  else is to blame-perhaps that answer is yes.
To answer part of your question-what can EU or US do against Russia--confront them now--before they get any crazier

While it has been said numerous times here previously--let me say some of it again-- as apparently  you do not read-let alone comprehend.

Help Ukraine maintain it's sovereign territory .  Ukraine is not Russia's "backyard"--it is another country and Russia has no business invading.

Thread title says what the thread is about-- and despite your attempts ( & others to silence some of us) the bad news is Russia's doing--self inflicted  .

[BC]

Now that sumarises your pathetic  attitude  and ignorance .

What countries do you attempt to include-it is Russia lashing out and behaving in a disgusting manner-- RUSSIA
Are you really such a simpleton that you think anyone  else is to blame-perhaps that answer is yes.
To answer part of your question-what can EU or US do against Russia--confront them now--before they get any crazier

While it has been said numerous times here previously--let me say some of it again-- as apparently  you do not read-let alone comprehend.

Help Ukraine maintain it's sovereign territory .  Ukraine is not Russia's "backyard"--it is another country and Russia has no business invading.

Thread title says what the thread is about-- and despite your attempts ( & others to silence some of us) the bad news is Russia's doing--self inflicted  .

Maybe check out a bit of history..

America's Coup Machine: Destroying Democracy Since 1953
http://www.alternet.org/world/americas-coup-machine-destroying-democracy-1953

Tit for tat..  In many ways that's how things work.

Until someone else steps in to UA it will remain RU's de-facto back yard. Believe me if there was an easy way for the west to confront RU it would have been done by now.  Look at Georgia, RU's other 'back yard'... Now that was 2008 and everyone raised hell about that didn't they?  Whats the status quo today?  Was/is there a resolve to take back RU areas of Georgia?

http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/?fa=60945

Who’s Afraid of NATO Enlargement?

Georgia has done everything possible to meet the criteria for joining NATO. Apart from reforming its armed forces to a very high standard, the country has been actively engaged in several NATO missions. Yet for all that, NATO as a whole is opposed to admitting this country, which is strategically located between the Black Sea, Russia, Turkey, Armenia, and Azerbaijan.

The reason is that several NATO countries are not convinced that Georgia would add to NATO’s security, despite its strategic location. Bluntly, countries such as Germany and France but also Poland fear that Georgia might at one stage invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which obliges the allies to come to the defense of another ally under threat.

In other words, are actions of Russia really so unprecedented?  Considering history what do you find undue with RU's efforts to maintain control over their remaining strategic assets?  Surely you don't expect them or the US for that matter to simply watch from the grandstand as the west Nibbles away at their borders.

Yeah, call it pathetic and ignorant.. I'll define it as being realistic and understanding that there are two sides of every coin.

[BC]

Finland risks 'serious crisis' with Russia if it joins NATO: study

http://www.yahoo.com/news/finland-risks-serious-crisis-russia-joins-nato-study-185914855.html

Helsinki (AFP) - If Finland joined NATO it would provoke a "serious crisis" with neighbouring Russia, an expert report commissioned by the government warned on Friday.

Inversely to UA and Georgia badly wanting NATO membership, Finland will have to assess whether or not membership would be really worth it.  I don't see a 'win win' situation here at all for them and highly doubt Sweden does either.

Take RU's side of the coin..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO#/media/File:Map_of_NATO_chronological.gif

How could RU not consider NATO expansion a form of aggression.. after all who does NATO consider as potential 'enemies' requiring such expansion?  Did this expansion, especially since 1990 come about as a reaction to any aggressive moves by RU?  On the whole it looks more like defensive reaction rather than true aggression.

It's really quite logical and makes sense..  Just look at a map and consider how South Ossetia,  Abkhazia, Crimea, Donetsk are all very strategic locations from RU POV.

NATO expanded when RU was economically and politically 'down and out' now they are telling the world they are back in the game.