Should men seek advice from RWD?

[BC]

You have a leg to stand on with respect to the money angle, but quite a stretch to bring in the vacation time.  In your ideal, only men with extra ordinary vacation time should get involved.

Also, I respect your experience and comments on many topics, however I think you would do us all a favor if in each of your posts (you could put it in your byline) that you are not speaking from the general framework of men who are traveling to a different county in this venture.  You did it from an 'in-country' viewpoint. 

That alone makes a lot (most?) of your comments quite irrelevant for the average guy.

Aha.. so just because I am in EU means it's 'in country'?

The only 'easy' part is that I did not have to search to find a woman to date.  The rest is quite the same.

Yes, on the whole, those whittling away at two weeks a year vacation time can forget it.  Even EU workers with 21 or so workday vacation time may find themselves stressed.. time flies when you're having fun.

In one year, I spent over two months on the ground in FSU prior to marriage and a boatload of unproductive (in business sense) 'off work' time once my family arrived.  Had I not been self employed I would have been flat out fired.

Yes, I agree.. quite irrelevant for the average guy who wants to buzz on over, find a girl that will wash his feet, get her back forthwith and into a paying job to pay off the credit card bill, not to mention keep her busy enough so she doesn't call work 10 times a day because she is bored.

You and others may not like what I have to say and that's really great if it provokes a little thought and turns heads towards the writing on the walls in here.

[KenC]

Ken, that is a well thought out response and provides a lot of food for thought.  However, I have to wonder how accurate is really is.  I do think most of the men making a trip are not sightseeing and most of the women who are meeting men from abroad are not looking for a friend and to learn about other cultures.

Of course you are correct here, but my point is that not to emphasise meeting just one woman.  The man should be prepared for activities other than meeting a singular woman.

I have had lots of times that I developed a lot of rapport and strong feelings based solely on emails.  (well maybe a few beautiful photos as well).   I think as Bored mentions you do go in the hopes that the fantasy's you have created in your mind and she has inspired with her emails and phone calls will turn out to be reality.  Most often they don't.  Spending an extended period of time with someone you have no real connection to is really difficult and uncomfortable.    In a perfect world you would find what you were looking for with that person you built up the chemistry with and Bored is right.   A WOVO would be the way to go but the world is not perfect and neither are the people in it.  Most WOVO's are a bust.  Some guys get lucky and the first one turns out to be perfect but that is the exception.

I actually learned this lesson prior to going to Russia.  I spent the longest weekend of my life in Nashville, TN.  No language or cultural barrier necessary, just a phone/Internet fantasy gone awry.

Yep, you are right.

1. I wouldn't go jetting halfway around the world to date someone I had not met, much less many I had not met..  Much more comfy at home.

And yet you later say:

By all means guys, go have some adventurous dates but you'll be much better off not seeking marriage.

These two statements appear contradictory to me, BC.

2. I never dated with the intent of marriage..  Why ruin a good thing.

And yet you are indeed married.
    So you must have been open to the idea of marriage.  Not a bad attitude IMO.  I do agree that many (most?) men and women in this venture put far too much emphasis on getting married than they should.

3. Life has provided for me quite well in many ways, so I never felt the need to 'force the issue' when it comes to relationships.  I just trust whatever life has in store for me.  I simply let them happen and without any pressure.  Dry spells were relatively short and often at times in my life when I needed solace and introspect.  I have found that seeking what "I want" only causes trouble.

Forcing agendas is usually not the best course of action.

I did go visit my wife after we dated a couple of times, MOVO if you will..  Had things gone south I wouldn't have had any problem finding other things to do, and believe me seeking a marriage partner would have been the very last on my list.

I see very little difference between you meeting your wife where ever you did meet her and a man casually meeting some women in their home country.

I guess I view marriage as an unforeseen result, rather than a goal.  If you find yourself paddling upstream with a woman, relax and change direction.

I 100% agree with this statement.  I just happen to be of the opinion that you could meet the right woman anywhere, including her home country.

Vaughn,
Sorry for misunderstanding your post,  My bad.
KenC

[Jooky]

The man, in many cases, will be making one trip during one year.  So he will be in a particular FSU town once during a given year

.

What's truly ridiculous is a man who can make only one trip per year meeting many women over the course of a week or two and deciding to marry one.

I agree that being exclusive with someone you haven't met is also ridiculous. The whole 'process' most men follow in this pursuit is ridiculous and unrealistic. It doesn't seem to me that Bored and others are arguing for exclusivity or meeting only one woman. They're arguing against deception, that's all.

[BC]

Quote from: BC on Today at 15:23:41

Yep, you are right.

1. I wouldn't go jetting halfway around the world to date someone I had not met, much less many I had not met..  Much more comfy at home.

And yet you later say:

By all means guys, go have some adventurous dates but you'll be much better off not seeking marriage.

These two statements appear contradictory to me, BC.

Yeah, to the second I should have added 'If you must..' at the beginning, but even then it sounds a bit redundant when someone already caught the 'itch'.  

[KenC]

Bored1,
I am not in the least trying to imply you disrespected my opinion in any way.  I understand now that you were just responding to GQ's scenario, which as I said up thread was slanted toward making the men look like insincere deceptive creatures IMO.  The end result is that you and I both agree under the casual circumstances as I proposed.  I did not mean to make my post sound like a "cross examination" either but I misunderstood your response.
KenC

[GQBlues]

Ken-

Methinks you misunderstood my point based on your response.

When I first went to meet Lena, she and I had become friends via our phone calls, but just friends, nothing romantic at all.  She understood well that I was going to meet other RW on my trip and had not a problem with it.  The other women I scheduled to meet were all well aware that I was not coming to spend my time exclusively with them either.  I met the others, had a few dinners with some and even took another to a New Years party, which we all know is a big deal.

The description you laid out about your maiden trip is what I would hardly describe as WOVO. You came knowing, as did the women, that you will be there to afford all and each one of you an opportunity to personalize your virtual acquaintance and decide if compatibility even exist.

This is not a discussion of merit between WOVO / WMVM.

My comment specifically targeted the act of deception. When a woman ask a man if she is the only one he writes to and is planning on visiting, and he either replied a) Yes, or b) deflects the question and leave it unanswered ('don't ask, don't tell' advice) in hopes he never had to tell her the truth - then to me that is a lie or a deception if they in fact contacted and took along names and numbers of women to see and date 'just in case'.

C'mon, you see this advice gets handed out all the time and taken by men. Why are we skirting around this specific issue?

But you know full well that by telling the women, that a large majority of them will drop the guy instantly.  Kind of like telling a kid that it is dangerous to cross the Interstate on foot, but that it is the quickest way home if he does it.  A sure slaughter.

The first thing I wanted to say is....so what? To somehow believe being open and honest to women, any woman, you don't know will somehow cause spontaneous combustion, or as you say, slaugthered; tells me that you would easily opt to deceive a woman than take that chance.

The women set up this ridiculous situation by their insistence on the WOVO approach so the man can spend the money and scarce vacation time in order to be rejected by the woman as he steps off the plane.  Thus, it is a no-win situation for any man who tries to do the honorable thing as you propose.

So deception is raison d'être?

If you feel so strongly about that conviction you expressed above, then I am very curious to know why on earth would you be investing your precious time and money to court and marry one of these women?

[KenC]

Ken-

Methinks you misunderstood my point based on your response.

The description you laid out about your maiden trip is what I would hardly describe as WOVO. You came knowing, as did the women, that you will be there to afford all and each one of you an opportunity to personalize your virtual acquaintance and decide if compatibility even exist.

This is not a discussion of merit between WOVO / WMVM.

My comment specifically targeted the act of deception. When a woman ask a man if she is the only one he writes to and is planning on visiting, and he either replied a) Yes, or b) deflects the question and leave it unanswered ('don't ask, don't tell' advice) in hopes he never had to tell her the truth - then to me that is a lie or a deception if they in fact contacted and took along names and numbers of women to see and date 'just in case'.

C'mon, you see this advice gets handed out all the time and taken by men. Why are we skirting around this specific issue?

GQ,
When did you ever witness me "skirting" any issue? :noidea: Never have I ever been accused of being shy!

I fail to understand why a "don't ask, don't tell" position is a deception or a lie of any sort.  Whatever the man's other plans may be, it is simply none of the lady's business in the beginning.  Not to be harsh, or ungentlemanly in any way, a deflection may be the kindest course of action to be honest.  I would never expect a woman to give me full disclosure of her dating itinerary in the beginning either.  As a new man in her life, I simply do not have the right to ask.  If and when she and I become involved to a point where these things should be divulged, then they will be.

Now if the woman is very forward and insist upon a direct answer to the question "Are you visiting any other women?" I would answer with the truth.  I would explain that as she and I were curious enough to meet in person, I had become Internet or phone friends with another lady too.  While I was in Ukraine/Russia, I wanted to say hello and share a coffee with her too.  Or I could say that I was going to hang out with Jack Bragg in the next town for a few days.

If the man has made no assurances that he is exclusively visiting the one woman, I see no harm in not sharing his complete detailed itinerary.  Should the question be put forth (improperly in my mind) prior to the trip, I would go into a detailed explanation that both you and she are not yet in an exclusive relationship and she should feel free to date others too.

I also see no harm in a man having a batch of addys in his back pocket, in case plan "B" is necessary.  That is just common sense man.  Of course it shows some doubt in his mind that things may not go perfectly with his number one girl, but only a fool would not give some thought to the possibility of everything not being perfect.  Everyone (men & women) should have some very big doubts when meeting for the first time.  And I would go even further than just the "first time" too!  Ask Dave if he regrets not having a back up plan on his second trip to visit his lady.  What is the old saying?  Plan for the best but be prepared for the worst!
KenC

[Gator]

"Don't ask, don't tell" does not apply as it means the RW should not ask.  Most RW ask.

The appropriate policy IMO should be "don't volunteer and be forthright if when she asks." 

Accept the fact that she may decline to meet you.  That's the risk you take.  I find it despicable to bullshiit a woman that you are coming just to see her when you have plans for other RW. 

[Gator]

My Observations Explaining RW’s Distaste for A Man Meeting Other Women

RW Dating Style

RW are more serious about what I call dating.   In my younger days, it was common to be dating different women at the same time.  The few RW I knew well did not date RM that way.  If they became interested in a RM after the first date, they would not consider dating another man. 

Many RW have dated less than we expect.  My wife hooked up at age 18 with the man who became her husband.  Prior to him, she had a few dates with one RM without sex.

Meeting a Western Man

Even though a RW considers us as a stranger from a strange land, she hopes we are special, worthy of her attention and love.  Without exception she is willing to spend all of her available time with the stranger if he comes to her city.  If the meeting proves he is indeed special, how can they have a relationship if he will now meet other RW?  If he is not special, that is his fault, not hers.  In her mind he was stupid for not recognizing the incompatibility.

Destiny

Many RW believe in destiny.  The Gods of Destiny would never hatch a series of eventful coincidences that include meeting other women.

Heightened Expectations

Deciding to consider marriage to a foreigner, listing herself on the Internet as “available,” corresponding with many foreigners who never make the trip, finally having a man decide to travel to her city, knowing that important decisions must be made in a compressed amount of time ….all add up to heightened expectations, perhaps unrealistic.  Suffice it to say circumspection flies out the window. 

[KenC]

"Don't ask, don't tell" does not apply as it means the RW should not ask.  Most RW ask.

The appropriate policy IMO should be "don't volunteer and be forthright if when she asks." 

Accept the fact that she may decline to meet you.  That's the risk you take.  I find it despicable to bullshiit a woman that you are coming just to see her when you have plans for other RW. 

Gator,
You're probably correct.  However, not one RW asked me about meeting others when I went on my trip, oh so many years ago.  All assumed I was meeting others.  It really was no big deal.  Again, as long as the man is honest and is not misleading the woman into thinking he is only coming to see her, no harm no foul.  It is funny too, in thinking about this conversation, I remembered I was actually dating an American woman at the time of my first trip to Russia.  She understood that we were not in an exclusive relationship at the time too.  I just told her I was going to be out of town for a week.  Never told her I was going to Russia.  Some how she came up with the assumption I was going to Las Vegas for the week and I never corrected her.  Would that make her plan "C"?

I really didn't rate who was "A", "B" or "C" at the time.  I was a single and available man without any commitments to any single woman.  I believe I had a healthy attitude about it then as I do now.  "You want to get together and enjoy a dinner, drink, concert or whatever with me?  Yes? Great!  No? OK too."  I would date and spend time with a woman while it was enjoyable for me.  Once it stopped being enjoyable, I moved on.  No commitment before it's time.  As for marriage, I am open to the idea eventually, but it is not a priority.  Of course I wasn't wife hunting when I met Lena either.
KenC
Congrats on your Bucs win

[JR]

"thank you for your compliment!  I only chat with 12 inches or more. Do you have a webcam?"

 

Of course I have a webcam...

[I/O]

only men with extra ordinary vacation time should get involved.

Absolutely. I was working my own show when I started this crazy caper and could please myself regarding time. Now I have 5 weeks / year paid leave, about 10 weeks banked and I wouldn't even remotely consider this caper under present circumstances. Put simply, for whatever reasons, RW ain't for everyone.

Short resources will kill it.
Financial resources.
Time resources.
Information resources.

For those who haven't spent much if any time in Russia particularly over the last few years, I would tender this. The landscape has changed massively over the last two or three years and beyond most imagination over the last 10. 'Tis a very different world there now.

KenC: IIRC you met women through a shop front agency? That’s a very different ball game. The reasonable assumption for anyone (man or woman) listing with a shop front is others will meet others.  In direct communications the assumption is much less so.

Gator: You are touching on something I’ve observed over a number of years. Far too many WM are trying to implant (almost dictate) their “dating” philosophy on RW and from my observations they will be pushing sch!t up hill for a long time because……………

Again, from my observations past and present (including within the last 6 months on the ground in 4 different Russian locations) for the most part if a RW decides / agrees to “go out” (date if you like) a guy, RM or WM, she sees him as the (not A but the) present marriage prospect until proven otherwise. Further, often the family or part thereof have already been consulted. Innocent until proven guilty springs to mind. It is just a very different picture from the likes of USA, Aus or other similar. “Dating” as we know it just isn’t so much the norm. 

Anyway, it's funny how this has drifted to a VO vs VM thread very quickly which at the end of the day is up to each and every. However if guys think they can dictate the terms across the pond, there is news for them and it ain’t good. Anyone got a view on age gaps? 

[RussianWind]

Many RW have dated less than we expect.  My wife hooked up at age 18 with the man who became her husband.  Prior to him, she had a few dates with one RM without sex.

Yes, we always say this. "You are only the second, honey...  ' 
(... and only because the first was an ex-husband. Who was in between is absolutely doesn't matter  )

[KenC]

Yes, we always say this. "You are only the second, honey...  ' 
(... and only because the first was an ex-husband. Who was in between is absolutely doesn't matter  )

[GQBlues]

Now if the woman is very forward and insist upon a direct answer to the question "Are you visiting any other women?" I would answer with the truth.  I would explain that as she and I were curious enough to meet in person, I had become Internet or phone friends with another lady too.  While I was in Ukraine/Russia, I wanted to say hello and share a coffee with her too.

Wonderful! Do you mind elaborating why you would?

I also see no harm in a man having a batch of addys in his back pocket..... That is just common sense man.

Sure. As many as you can jam into your Blueberry. For men who isn't sure about their fate going to see only one woman - be straight and say you're not. That gives her an option as to whether or not to entertain seeing you. If she feels it isn't for her to be involved with you because of it, fine. Look for someone else who'll understand and agree to it. If she does, then that's even better.

When you date at home, the point when both of you discuss not seeing anyone else is the point you both agree to be 'exclusive'. You've gone beyond casually dating. Booty calls and casual intimacy come to a screeching halt.

Where I believe it isn't cool in my book is when a man deliberately deceives a woman (because he has in fact contacted other women and had gotten their contact info - just in case) in fear she may exercise her option not to see him if she felt this isn't something she would rather not be involved in.

Considering your conviction expressed above, surely I don't need to further explain that point to you, yes?

[KenC]

Wonderful! Do you mind elaborating why you would?

Don't quite understand the question here.

Sure. As many as you can jam into your Blueberry. For men who isn't sure about their fate going to see only one woman - be straight and say you're not. That gives her an option as to whether or not to entertain seeing you. If she feels it isn't for her to be involved with you because of it, fine. Look for someone else who'll understand and agree to it. If she does, then that's even better.

When you date at home, the point when both of you discuss not seeing anyone else is the point you both agree to be 'exclsuive'. You've gone beyond casually dating.

Where I believe it isn't cool in my book is when a man deliberately deceives a woman (because he has in fact contacted other women and had gotten their contact info - just in case) in fear she may exercise her option not to see him if she felt this isn't something she would rather not be involved in.

Considering your conviction expressed above, surely I don't need to further explain that point to you, yes?

Look, people are not committed until they are.  And even if and when one side of a relationship becomes committed, doesn't necessarily mean the other is too.  I am the most faithful man in the world after marriage, but before I swallow the hook, I am what I am.  I do not or ever plan to be a guy that is in to a constant assessment of a relationship step by step.  Don't like it?  Don't stay in it then.
KenC

[GQBlues]

Don't quite understand the question here.

If you'll tell her straight-up you're seeing other women if asked - what fuels that conviction?

Look, people are not committed until they are.  And even if and when one side of a relationship becomes committed, doesn't necessarily mean the other is too.

Great! Now were getting closer. All the more reason tell it like it is, isn't it?

[Mars]

You and others may not like what I have to say and that's really great if it provokes a little thought and turns heads towards the writing on the walls in here.

Has nothing to do with whether what you say is liked or not. 
Rather, much of what you say is simply irrelevant to the average poster here who is facing an entirely different situation.

Your comments about married life with a FSUW are very relevant. 
Your comments about getting to the married stage are not; because you faced a much different environment.

My view on this extends to several other posters here such as Misha and others whom I don't quite remember right now.  You, Misha and these others simply faced an entirely different environment than the vast majority of the posters here.

The comments from your group show an almost complete lack of reality (with respect to helpfulness to the other men) similar to those espoused by Marie Antoinette.

[KenC]

If you'll tell her straight-up you're seeing other women if asked - what fuels that conviction?

Great! Now were getting closer. All the more reason tell it like it is, isn't it?

GQ,
Sorry dude, but you still seem to be talking in riddles on the first part.  Maybe this will answer your question though.

In the beginning stages of any relationship, I believe there are lines of privacy.  I will tell a woman all that I am comfortable in sharing based upon my perception of how close we are.  My life is not an open book to all comers, sorry.  I have no problem in saying "Sorry, dear, I am not comfortable in sharing that with you yet."  I will move forward at my own chosen speed.  Damn the cultural difference if that is in play as Gator says above.  I will respect hers but also insist she respect mine too.  If my ways are not acceptable, then she should move on.  As Lee Iaccoca used to say, "If you can find a better deal, then buy it!"  In this case "go for it!"  Too many guys here are willing to sell their own self respect and jump through any hoop put before them by a RW IMO.  I know that sounds terribly inflexible, but I am willing to compromise if I think compromise is in order, but then again, I ain't Silly Putty like some men here. (Willing to transform myself into any shape the woman prefers)  Some may call it arrogance, but I think it is confidence in ones own self worth.
KenC

[Misha]

You, Misha and these others simply faced an entirely different environment than the vast majority of the posters here.

What exactly was this different environment? The main difference: I spoke Russian and I was able to spend a few months in Russia. Otherwise, it was pretty standard: met a variety of women, one fell in love with me and I fell in love with her. Once we knew we were compatible, we married.

[GQBlues]

Sorry dude, but you still seem to be talking in riddles on the first part.  Maybe this will answer your question though.

LOL. Dude, no, I wasn't talking in riddles - but now you are. Let me remind you again what you said in the event I made reference to it and it gets lost in translation ( Try not to read between the lines with my questions below).

First you said:
 
"Now if the woman is very forward and insist upon a direct answer to the question "Are you visiting any other women?" I would answer with the truth. I would explain that as she and I were curious enough to meet in person, I had become Internet or phone friends with another lady too. While I was in Ukraine/Russia, I wanted to say hello and share a coffee with her too. Or I could say that I was going to hang out with Jack Bragg in the next town for a few days."

Now you're saying:

In the beginning stages of any relationship, I believe there are lines of privacy. I will tell a woman all that I am comfortable in sharing based upon my perception of how close we are. My life is not an open book to all comers, sorry. I have no problem in saying "Sorry, dear, I am not comfortable in sharing that with you yet." I will move forward at my own chosen speed. Damn the cultural difference if that is in play as Gator says above. I will respect hers but also insist she respect mine too. If my ways are not acceptable, then she should move on. yada, yada, yada..."

I will try again and since you added a new (in my opinion a reversal from the first) statement, additional questions came to life.

1. Which is really your conviction? Statement #1 or Statement #2?

2. If your true conviction is Statement #1, the question was: Why would you tell her you are seeing other women. Because it's the right thing to do?
 
3. If your true conviction is Statement #2, then are you saying you will deceive a woman by either lying to her, or avoid answering a direct question that you are seeing other women and hide behind the ' it's your life and it is not an open book' - so you won't have to tell her?

I'm hopeful this is a bit clearer now.

Footnote: I haven't yet met a woman from anywhere who expects a complete bio from a man - day one of dating. Asking a man during the early stages of a relationship if they are seeing other women is not akin to making your life an open book. LOL. Way too much drama there, Ken. Asking a man (or a man asking a woman) if they are dating other people is a normal process of dating. That is not an invasion of privacy, chrissakes - MOST specially in this day and age.

[KenC]

GQ,
I would prefer to not be asked or to tell if I am seeing any one else or not . I do not think it is a proper question in the beginning regardless if you think it is normal for christsake or not.  I would think it a very invasive question from any woman before we met and even after just a few dates.  I might even consider it a red flag for a controlling or insecure issues.

If the lady in question persited in asking, I would not lie to her but I also might just blow her off too.  BTW, avoiding the answer or refusing to answer is not a deception of any kind.  It is information I choose not to share at that point of the relationship.  I would add that I think it is rude to ask the question.  I have never asked it nor have I been asked it before.  It falls into the area of if you have to ask, you really do not want to know the answer.
KenC

[KenC]

3. If your true conviction is Statement #2, then are you saying you will deceive a woman by either lying to her, or avoid answering a direct question that you are seeing other women and hide behind the ' it's your life and it is not an open book' - so you won't have to tell her?

You know, GQ, this is a really pissy thing to say.  I NEVER said I would lie to a woman and I do not consider it hiding behind a damn thing, if I choose not to share this information with a new woman in my life.  You may think it is necessary to kiss a woman's ass and jump through every hoop she might put in front of you, but I don't.
KenC

[GQBlues]

Kiss a woman in the booty? You now sound like Mars. Is that how you look at men who chooses to be on the level with women they chose to associate with on a personal level? LOL. More power to the two of you, then.

Silly me to believe getting to know one another is a vital part of dating. LOL. If you ain't gonna know her, whattcha datin' her for?

Heck, if I'm casually dating anyone at home, I sure as hell would like to know who and how many she's dating - Don't you? I certainly wouldn't blame her for asking me, too and certainly won't think it's some silly act of invasion of my privacy like you do. I'm not even factoring STDs in this equation yet....but even that by itself you better believe it's everyone's business and responsibility to know, man. I'll certainly be very leery of a woman who doesn't ask nor care to....

I asked you questions to better understand where you're coming but you keep sidestepping the issue. Then you give me 2 conflicting answers (IMV), so I asked for an elaboration...

[KenC]

Kiss a woman in the booty? You now sound like Mars. Is that how you look at men who chooses to be on the level with women they chose to associate with on a personal level? LOL. More power to the two of you, then.

ON THE LEVEL?  WTF is not on the level about choosing NOT to share every intimate detail of your life before you meet a woman?  Get real dude.  I guess I am not so desperate to submit to an anal exam prior to getting involved with a woman like you seem to suggest is the only way to be "on the level."  Your attitude that there is something devious about not sharing every detail prior to having a relationship is total BS.

Silly me to believe getting to know one another is a vital part of dating. LOL. If you ain't gonna know her, whattcha datin' her for?

  All in due time dude.  A relationship is a journey not a destination.  You share more and more things as their relationship progresses.  A new acquaintance does not need to know every detail of your life in the beginning or in this case even before the real relationship begins.

Heck, if I'm casually dating anyone at home, I sure as hell would like to know who and how many she's dating - Don't you?

No, it isn't any of my or her business in the beginning stages of a relationship.  The only thing that is important is to know you enjoy each others company.  Period.  Where the relationship leads you will determine what and how much you each want to voluntarily divulge.

I certainly wouldn't blame her for asking me, too and certainly won't think it's some silly act of invasion of my privacy like you do. I'm not even factoring STDs in this equation yet....but even that by itself you better believe it's everyone's business and responsibility to know, man. I'll certainly be very leery of a woman who doesn't ask nor care to....

Oh, so you required a sexual history and a current STD test before you met your wife?  I must of missed that part of your trip report.

I asked you questions to better understand where you're coming but you keep sidestepping the issue. Then you give me 2 conflicting answers (IMV), so I asked for an elaboration...

More BS from you!  I see no conflict in the two different scenarios at all.  I would never volunteer the information that I would be meeting other women.  I do not see this as a devious practice in any way.  It is simply not relevant to the first meeting. I  am not so desperate for any woman to offer up the details in order to meet her.  If a woman rudely persists to demand such information, I would not lie to her, but I would seriously consider not meeting her as this action would tend to be a warning sign for her insecurity or controlling nature.  To think that the man OWES a detailed explanation of his personal life in order to meet a woman is ridiculous and a sure sign of one desperate man.
KenC