The Propaganda War

[Faux Pas]

The new propaganda machine is forums and blogs. Political campaigns, governments, pay people to blog and post their views on highly fueled issues 24/7 on the web. Look no further than the current US administration and the Healthcare debate for the last 5 years. The anti gun debate after Sandy Hook. It is the new age of spreading the lies to convince people it is the truth. It is only going to get worse. A propaganda minister's dream.

Look at RUA and this forum. At RUA you have an administrator who hates Ukraine and the US. If you do the research on his name you can piece the puzzle together. He creates forum traffic by making deals and or topics. His pockets are being lined in some way by what he post and publishes.

Usually when something does not make sense its not the truth.

This is the new age of integrity. For $10.00 you throw it out the window when it comes to the internet.

This and other blogs amount to nothing more than spit in the ocean. I do agree with you however that there are many folks and organizations that attempt to create opinion for a cash price via the internet and they are successful. Some such as George Soros do it to change policy and I will remain convinced that without the internet, Obama would never have been elected. They are not alone, every cause and political persuasion do the same thing. Hillary Clinton was caught last week with 80% (?) of her twitter followers were paid phantoms. It's the world we live in. Disimformation.

[Muzh]

This and other blogs amount to nothing more than spit in the ocean. I do agree with you however that there are many folks and organizations that attempt to create opinion for a cash price via the internet and they are successful. Some such as George Soros do it to change policy and I will remain convinced that without the internet, Obama would never have been elected. They are not alone, every cause and political persuasion do the same thing. Hillary Clinton was caught last week with 80% (?) of her twitter followers were paid phantoms. It's the world we live in. Disimformation.

Is that italic (Soros) or slant (Koch Bros.)? Any difference? 

[Faux Pas]

Is that italic (Soros) or slant (Koch Bros.)? Any difference? 

No difference there leftwinger man  Didn't my following statement clarify that?

[BillyB]

there are interests and there are interests..
.

That's the truth and your interests was to show I'm naïve by linking an article that says America bought old Soviet era Ak-47 magazines for Syrian rebels. If you really believe America is supplying pro Russian Ukrainians with Russian made gear, state that as your opinion instead of calling people naïve. NEW magazines are being used by the protestors, not OLD Soviet era magazines that America bought for the Syrian rebels.

what the common man see's is only a small if any part of the whole scheme, whether from RU or USA 

I've been saying that since the problem started and people should accept it instead of being pissed off at America or Russia. This stuff is nothing new. People should not be alarmed Russia and America are involved in Ukrainian affairs even if they are using methods that seem wrong and unethical to some people. They should not be alarmed America encouraged regime change in Ukraine and should not be alarmed Russia wants to influence Ukraine or is willing to do a hostile takeover. It's all a matter of survival and if America or Russia doesn't protect it's interests, their world gets smaller. America was slow to learn after WW2 when the Soviets spread Communism. In the end, America has done a better job at foreign affairs than our advisories but it doesn't mean we can stop and assume all nations of the world will hold hands and remain friendly with each other.

[pokerintherear]

Can you give an example of making deals?

This is the internet. You don't need proof. I give my educated opinion.

[alex330]

I've been saying that since the problem started and people should accept it instead of being pissed off at America or Russia. This stuff is nothing new. People should not be alarmed Russia and America are involved in Ukrainian affairs even if they are using methods that seem wrong and unethical to some people. They should not be alarmed America encouraged regime change in Ukraine and should not be alarmed Russia wants to influence Ukraine or is willing to do a hostile takeover. It's all a matter of survival and if America or Russia doesn't protect it's interests, their world gets smaller.

That's pretty much how the cards fall as I see it. It just so happens my wife is Ukrainian and I am on the opposite team on this one. Sucks Putin seems to be playing his hand so much better than those we have in power. I read a quick opinion on why Russia should invade and if half of what the author says is true it makes sense for Putin to roll on in or use everything in his power to implement a pro Russian government. I will let the experts here pick it apart for inconsistencies.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14808#.U01moFc7bic

[die_cast]

that was 8 years ago. Russia was the first place where I experienced that the world wide web could only be accessed through a local intranet. I did see it improve over the years but lately appears to have regressed.

Thanks for comparing us to China, that explain pretty good how some (many?) Americans see situation in Russia... 
Judging current situation with internet by your experience 8 years ago ... a little bit unwise, hm. Let's do it simple, what I can not find and see here, using my internet now? Can you tell me, if you have such information, of course?

When he enters office there was Arab Spring like uprisings in Moscow and Petersburg and now, he's the second coming of Christ to many of the RW posting here.

It was not like Arab Spring, probably that's how you could see it from the West through the prism of Western media (similar to many Russians who were watching Russian TV which were pretending that there are no any protests at all) and through the prism of your friends in Russia if they support our opposition, those days anyone who were following "Echo of Moscow", for example, could feel the same, I personaly was very proud of those protests, but at the same time I completely realize that majority of Russians didn't support them, mostly because people just don't care.
As for "the second coming of Christ", you are very wrong about it. That fact we are not shouting "Putin is evil" in every corner doesn't mean we see him as a god. Don't run to extremes, please. There are people in Russia who see him as a god, I have no doubt, but I see none of them on RWD.
Many guys here are entrapped themselves with thought "Putin is aggressor and dictator", it makes them blind and not able to see any positive outcomes. Open your mind a little and try to see whole picture, make an attempt to understand other POV, POV of Russian people who live in Russia and who would not tell you what you want to hear, because they want you to think good about them. Forget for a minute that you are American and put yourself in Russian shoes. It's almost impossible, most guys here are too busy trying "to wake up Russians" and don't bother themselves with any doubts, but if you are a smart person, you can try, at least. I don't ask you to change your mind and accept ours (mine), I only want you to understand and stop calling us names just because we don't support your opinion.



Picture says: This is a thuth (правда), and this is a truth (правда). But that is an absolute truth (истина). Any truth is only one side of absolute truth.

[Muzh]

That's pretty much how the cards fall as I see it. It just so happens my wife is Ukrainian and I am on the opposite team on this one. Sucks Putin seems to be playing his hand so much better than those we have in power. I read a quick opinion on why Russia should invade and if half of what the author says is true it makes sense for Putin to roll on in or use everything in his power to implement a pro Russian government. I will let the experts here pick it apart for inconsistencies.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14808#.U01moFc7bic

Heh. seems to me he is peddling his business.
 
Using his logic, Israel should invade NYC because there is a huge jewish diaspora who supports Israel's expansionism and bellicosity in the middle east.
 
Why don't we have Mexico invade California and Texas?
 
And maybe Canada can take Maine?
 
Heh, while we are at it let's have Portugal invade Brasil. Boy, would Portugal strike it rich here!?!?!
 
Can you think of any other stupid scenario?
 
Why don't we bring back Attila, Gengis, Adolf and Nap? Those guys definitely were born on the wrong era. Today they would be idolized.
 
What world order. We already forgot why we HAD a world order. Maybe we should have another REAL war.
 
Whadda ya say Alex? Up for it? Got any kids that can have their heads blown off?

[Ranetka]

Are you this clueless?  Russia invaded and annexed Crimea!!!!!

Annexed - yes. Invaded - no. 

Whichever way you call it majority of Crimean seem to be happy about it. So what is YOUR complaint? You can still stay in your wife's Crimean apartment, just need a visa, that's all.

[die_cast]

I am on the opposite team on this one.

That's a main issue, everyone is choosing a team and see "another team" as an enemy, no matter what... Nobody listen another side, as usual, because is busy with talking.

[Muzh]

That's a main issue, everyone is choosing a team and see "another team" as an enemy, no matter what... Nobody listen another side, as usual, because is busy with talking.

Somehow you think that Ukraine is on the same side of Russia? Or is it maybe that Ukraine don't exist and are just misguided?

[Ranetka]

Actually, what they call 'поребрик' are curbstones - stones or blocks used to form curbs/бордюры
where I live and in most places across Russia (except St. Petersburg, I guess)  the word 'поребрик' is not used to mean a curb. Muscovites often say in jest - calling a curb 'поребрик'  is sure to reveal your 'tourist from St. Petersburg' status.

Have you looked at the picture you yourself posted? :-)

[Hammer2722]

Annexed - yes. Invaded - no. 

Whichever way you call it majority of Crimean seem to be happy about it. So what is YOUR complaint? You can still stay in your wife's Crimean apartment, just need a visa, that's all.

No, invaded is the correct word. Yes 97 % of all Crimea is happy right ? Keep believing that one, LOL.
 YOU ARE CLUELESS.....

[pokerintherear]

Annexed - yes. Invaded - no. 

How does your moral compass square this? I find it interesting.

[die_cast]

Somehow you think that Ukraine is on the same side of Russia? Or is it maybe that Ukraine don't exist and are just misguided?

TBH, I don't understand your first question. We have here two teams - Ukrainian and Russian. How they can be on the same side?
Now, Ukraine is almost doesn't exist as a state, it's very weak and poor, I have no idea how they are going to improve situation.

[die_cast]

YOU ARE CLUELESS.....

What an unassailable argument... 

[Ranetka]

Somehow you think that Ukraine is on the same side of Russia? Or is it maybe that Ukraine don't exist and are just misguided?

The thing is there is no such thing as the whole united Ukraine. Your family friends may be of one opinion, miners in Donetsk - another. You picked up one side because it goes along with what you were told all your life and because your wife is of the same opinion. And now everything you read or see you'll be only picking up arguments to support this point of view.

Saying RW's on the forum have no access to information apart from Russian channels is an insult. I am bilingual plus I can understand Ukrainian so surely I can access wider range of information than an average forum member.

And in the end I found esteemed members disapproval hilarious. You ask an average MOB-er one year ago why he went to Ukraine for a wife instead of Russia and the reasons are
1. no need for visa
2. women are less spoiled (suspect something to do with ....eh....ever so slightly like 4 times less GDP per capita...)

And now look at ya, all protecting democracy and condemn evil Russia lol......Couple more weeks and even ML will sign for Ukrainian anti terrorist squad. Women power rules lol

[pokerintherear]

Now, Ukraine is almost doesn't exist as a state, it's very weak and poor, I have no idea how they are going to improve situation.

You have summed up the Russian mentality on the situation.

[Muzh]

TBH, I don't understand your first question. We have here two teams - Ukrainian and Russian. How they can be on the same side?
Now, Ukraine is almost doesn't exist as a state, it's very weak and poor, I have no idea how they are going to improve situation.

Okay, so I guess I misunderstood your statement.
 
Also, Ukraine is TRYING to exist. However, it seems Putin has other plans.

[Ranetka]

No, invaded is the correct word. Yes 97 % of all Crimea is happy right ? Keep believing that one, LOL.
 YOU ARE CLUELESS.....

And you know better how exactly?

[Ranetka]

You have summed up the Russian mentality on the situation.

Remind me current Ukraine credit rating please? Also any reasonable assessment of how strong current Ukrainian government is?

[die_cast]

You have summed up the Russian mentality on the situation.

You are willing to think whatever you want, of course, but there are some European experts (none of them are Russian so I'm not sure they have same mentality) who are saying the same.

[pokerintherear]

Remind me current Ukraine credit rating please? Also any reasonable assessment of how strong current Ukrainian government is?

Like many countries. Not good. Its still not justification to invade and annex. I assume you would agree with the US annexing Cuba?

[Ranetka]

 YOU ARE CLUELESS.....

It's always a pleasure to listen to a well-informed and well argued even opposite point of view.

Good job you have such good understanding of world politics.

[die_cast]

Also, Ukraine is TRYING to exist. However, it seems Putin has other plans.

Yes, they are trying... please, leave Putin alone for a minute, he is not that omnipotent, and think about that what Ukraine have to deal with now, economics mostly, not politics. They have no money and have a lot of debt, population is inactive, they want somebody to come and rescue them (EU)... but there is no magic, you know.