The Propaganda War

[Muzh]

Oh, BTW. Some of the empty humanitarian aid trucks from Russia were seen raiding a Ukrainian army depot and taking the shit back to Russia. The local news were interviewing some workers at the depot and gave eyewitness accounts.

[jone]

Reporting from the front, this may be closer than you think. My outlaws have a cousin who lives in Omsk. He would repeat the propaganda he saw on Russian TV and would tell my outlaws they were over reacting and all the stuff my outlaws told him they experienced, he said they must be lying because they don't see anything like that in Russian TV.


Well, one of his neighbors in Omsk is creating a big stink. (He may be asking for a death sentence for all I know.) The neighbors have a son in the military and they went to visit him at his base. When they got there, their son was nowhere to be found. They went to the base commander and demanded to know where was their son. "Oh well, he went missing or something like that." The father, who was also military got on the commander's face at ripped him a new one telling him that if his son "went missing or something like that" he is breaking the law and that is punishable with jail time so what the fcuk is he doing about it. They left the base and no news from the son. That was a month ago. Now they are questioning all the bullshit news media they see on TV and are expecting the worse as they feel their son was killed in Ukraine and they may never see his body.


As I was told, this guy is beyond himself and may do some stoopid shit that we will never hear on Russian TV.


Needless to say, the zombies are NOT telling my outlaws they are making up stories of shit happening in Ukraine anymore. This time, they are listening. Including the father of the young soldier.

There is a historical precedent to this:

When the Tzar sent all of the Russian soldiers to battle in the First World War, they came back from the front and told all of their stories about fighting a battle that Russia did not have an interest in.  I can't remember what happened after that ........     

[GQBlues]

Another perspective on the purpose of the recent Russian 'humanitarian aid' convoy by TIME Online...

[Gator]

I still believe Obama is the truth. 

Obama is many things but truthful is not on the list.  In fact, he may be the most deceitful President since Nixon, yet Nixon was a pro who accomplished much. 

I detest the man, yet I give him good marks for what he has done so far in Ukraine.  You do not want to hear my grades for his policies in Iraq, Egypt, Libya, etc.  With regard to foreign policy, the man is an amateur. 

[fathertime]

Another perspective on the purpose of the recent Russian 'humanitarian aid' convoy by TIME Online...

Thanks for providing that link.  I agree with much of what was stated regarding Russia is just doing the types of things we (the USA) are doing in Syria.  To take it one step further, today I read that we (the USA) are going to begin a drone surveillance campaign in Syria, without asking the Syrian leadership.  Well if that is the precedent, then Russia may well decide to do something similar in Ukraine.  Although Syria can't do much of anything against our military the rest of  the world can see the precedent and do the same in areas they have interests in.  We can't think our actions are going to continue to go without a response. 


[size=78%]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/25/obama-authorizes-use-surveillance-drones-over-syria/[/size]

Edit:  Drones not for bombing yet.
Fathertime!     

[GQBlues]

Strange world we all live in, isn't it? According to US officials, drones will enter Syrian airspace without Syria's approval or authorization (LOL). As far as Syria is concerned, I quote...

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem warned against any such strikes without Damascus's consent. Mr. al-Moallem, speaking at a news conference in Damascus, said Syria is ready to cooperate against extremist forces but any action against militant groups "should be coordinated with the Syrian government."

Methinks this is all false banter and Syria had likely already gave approval and have to just say something otherwise for public consumption. Just as Iran is already engaged in Iraq alongside the Kurds and the US....Nevertheless, the hypocrisy by our government regarding the Time Online article is spot on.

Talk about unlikely bedfellows...stranger still that a lot of the ISIS fighters are from the UK.

Brings to mind the mockery Bush jr. received with the infamous *the enemy of my enemy is my friend*. I'm happy Obama is eating crow with so many things he criticized Bush for before.

But Bush have one more problem. Rory McIlroy just nominated him for an Ice Bucket Challenge. 

[Muzh]

Here's a comentary from one of Murduch's boys. If you can't see it, PM me and I'll be happy to send you the oped piece.

[Muzh]

There is a historical precedent to this:

When the Tzar sent all of the Russian soldiers to battle in the First World War, they came back from the front and told all of their stories about fighting a battle that Russia did not have an interest in.  I can't remember what happened after that ........     

Here's another one. Of course, Lavarov categorically denied the existence of this woman.

[Muzh]

Interrogator: So this is from your division?
 Milchakov: Yes.
 Interrogator: Introduce yourself, please.
 Milchakov: I'm from the Russian Federation, my name is Ivan Vasilyevich Milchakov, born 7 June, 1995.
 Interrogator: Where did you serve?
 Milchakov: I don't understand.
 Interrogator: You're serving, correct?
 Milchakov: I serve in the city of Kostroma, Russian Federation, at army base 71211, 331th Parachute Paratroopers Regime, 98th Airborne Division
 Interrogator: Rank?
 Milchakov: Rank [inaudible]
 Interrogator: Do you know that you are now illegally on the territory of Ukraine?
 Milchakov: I guessed. But I realized it when they already began to bomb us.
 Interrogator: Ah-hah. How did you end up on Ukrainian territory?
 Milchakov: We went in convoys. Not on the roads but through the fields. I didn't even see where we crossed the border.
 Interrogator: Understood. But you did know were going to Ukraine?
 Milchakov: We knew.
 Interrogator: And...your purpose?
 Milchakov: They didn't tell us anything. They just said we were going on a march for 70 kilometers, on a 3-day trip.
 Interrogator. Ah-hah. Can you take that? It's your dog-tag?
 Milchakov: Yes, it's my dog-tag.
 Interrogator: Read it.
 Milchakov: Armed Forces of Russia SU 108012
 Interrogator: Can I have that? "VS [Armed Forces] of Russia. SU-108012"
 Tell me...your personal opinion...Why did they send you here?
 Milchakov: My personal opinion? My personal opinion, if it were up to me, I wouldn't have stuck my nose in...I think Ukraine is also independent. If there are some kind of problems, then let them resolve them internally....themselves. But for outsiders shouldn't stick their nose in.
 Interrogator: On your page on VKontakte...There's this phrase..."I'm being sent to Rostov once again. To the war. To wipe out Maidan. I'm leaving Monday." So here it is. Is there such a phrase? Is that yours?
 Milchakov: Yes, it's mine.
 Interrogator: Can you provide some commentary?
 Milchakov: Provide commentary? At that moment, they didn't tell us anything concrete. There were just rumors. But everyone understood...what would happen. We're going to Rostov. Since there will be training in Rostov.
 Interrogator: So then what does "wiping out Maidan" have to do with that.
 Milchakov: Well, sort of...it's embarrassing even to say...I just wanted to show off in front of my friends, I guess. That's why I wrote that.
 
 At that moment, we didn't know, we were told, on the television, there were rumors going around... in our country, in Russia, "Bandera," it will do anything, but the militia, that's good. But coming here, and winding up in captivity, it was explained to us, and they opened our eyes to the truth, what is really going on. We didn't even know why we were going here.  We went here, and that's it. We just lost our way. They shot us with mortar shells. Then from the Russian side, they shot with Grads as well.
 Interrogator: Your own people?
 Milchakov: [Nods head several times.]
 
 They brainwash us Russians, I'll tell you that. In fact, everything is different. Not the way they say on television. But we simple guys, they tell us what to do, we do it. We're coming here like cannon fodder. We don't know why, or for what reason. That's it.
 Interrogator: Thank you.
 Milchakov: So I send love to everyone. To Mama, Papa, brother, sister, Grandma, Grandpa. My beloved Grandfather Oleg, it's so hard for him now, and when he finds out, it will be even harder for him.
 
 To the commanders, I would call on you not to hide from soldiers, what's going on and where we're going...and they said...we're like blind cats, going along.

[sleepycat]

He might as well ask the Ukrainians for political asylum now, since if he is sent back to Russia he will probably be 'disappeared' and never to be seen again.

[Boethius]

Muzh, our resident Russian apologists may rightly point out he could very well be a paid "actor", complete with fake Russian (as opposed to Ukrainian) accent.


This villager was probably paid as well -


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/26/uk-ukraine-crisis-novoazovsk-idUKKBN0GQ19Y20140826

[Muzh]

Wait for it, wait for it....

[Muzh]

And the Russians still insist Ukraine is NOT a country.


Tell it to these people.







Heh, heh, heh

[Muzh]

Oy, more propaganda.

[Muzh]

Very interesting piece from Forbes.

[GQBlues]

Muzh, our resident Russian apologists may rightly point out he could very well be a paid "actor", complete with fake Russian (as opposed to Ukrainian) accent....

 

*Apologist* defined: "a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial".

Months after discussions, some still just doesn't get it.

As I can only speak for myself, and what I have been saying all along, I don't give a rat's arse what Russia or Putin does, nor have I ever taken a stand to defend whatever it was they're doing. My beef in this entire stupidity is the illegal overthrow of a legitimate government (coerced, manipulated, supported, orchestrated) by my own government for our own geopolitical advantage like we did in Yugoslavia.

Now as far as the recent posts relating to the captured Russian soldiers, IMHO, it's not any different than the 400 Ukrainian soldiers and tank brigade that tripped over to the Russian territory (which were treated fairly and fed and released back to Ukraine), without even having to put any of them on camera like Ukraine is doing here. Even with the Russian soldier's commentary, nowhere will one find where it said these soldiers were on an *invading* mission to Ukraine. Unless you guys can point that out to me, of course. So, you can all sleep well tonight. There isn't any invasion here as I doubt had there been one, they'd likely send troops far more prepared than this kid on, egads, YouTube...LMAO!

One very interesting thing however, it seems rather absurd to me that a *superpower* nation would have soldiers who can be 'lost' close to a 'hot zone'. But looking at all the soldiers involved in this conflict, one doesn't really make the other look any better. It is as bizarre as seeing that Ukrainian tank brigade walloping on over to Russia.

[Boethius]

Other soldiers allegedly captured in Ukraine are from Pskov.  That unit is an elite airborne division.  Practically impossible for it to have "mistakenly" crossed the border.

[GQBlues]

Yes. The kid definitely looks *elite*.

Keep trying...

[Boethius]

That soldier is not from the Pskov unit. 

[Muzh]

*Apologist* defined: "a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial".

Months after discussions, some still just doesn't get it.

As I can only speak for myself, and what I have been saying all along, I don't give a rat's arse what Russia or Putin does, nor have I ever taken a stand to defend whatever it was they're doing. My beef in this entire stupidity is the illegal overthrow of a legitimate government (coerced, manipulated, supported, orchestrated) by my own government for our own geopolitical advantage like we did in Yugoslavia.

Now as far as the recent posts relating to the captured Russian soldiers, IMHO, it's not any different than the 400 Ukrainian soldiers and tank brigade that tripped over to the Russian territory (which were treated fairly and fed and released back to Ukraine), without even having to put any of them on camera like Ukraine is doing here. Even with the Russian soldier's commentary, nowhere will one find where it said these soldiers were on an *invading* mission to Ukraine. Unless you guys can point that out to me, of course. So, you can all sleep well tonight. There isn't any invasion here as I doubt had there been one, they'd likely send troops far more prepared than this kid on, egads, YouTube...LMAO!

One very interesting thing however, it seems rather absurd to me that a *superpower* nation would have soldiers who can be 'lost' close to a 'hot zone'. But looking at all the soldiers involved in this conflict, one doesn't really make the other look any better. It is as bizarre as seeing that Ukrainian tank brigade walloping on over to Russia.

LMAO


Cool your heels man. For a second there you sounded like you were apologizing for the Russian Army's "oops."


BTW, any links to the "humanitarian" treatment the Ruskies gave the Ukrainian soldiers. 

[Gator]

Very interesting piece from Forbes.

Excellent read.   And brief too. 

[GQBlues]

LMAO


Cool your heels man. For a second there you sounded like you were apologizing for the Russian Army's "oops."...

Oh kewl! As long as it just 'sounds like' 

But apparently I was mistaken when I said the Russians didn't put the 438 Ukrainian soldiers on camera when they stumbled over to Russia without provisions and supplies...and much as I 'hate' to post anything from RT, here it is.

...BTW, any links to the "humanitarian" treatment the Ruskies gave the Ukrainian soldiers.  ...

Reuters/NPR reported it back in April when *Ukrainian paratroopers* ( ) defected and went to the rebels' camp....

>>..."All the soldiers and the officers are here. We are all boys who won't shoot our own people," said the soldier, whose uniform did not have any identifying markings on it."They haven't fed us for three days on our base. They're feeding us here. Who do you think we are going to fight for?," he said...<<

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/16/us-ukraine-crisis-slaviansk-apcs-idUSBREA3F0K420140416


...and this one can't be 'today' as the tank brigade that seek shelter in Russia, IIRC, happened in late July or early August..
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/04/373992/438-ukrainian-troops-escape-to-russia/


On a good note, at least the Gaza/Israel finally found a good resolution to quell their gripe and stop bombing one another. Israel agreed to finally 'ease' and open the Gaza border and Hamas vowed to lay down their arms.

Sheeesh!

[Gator]

Months after discussions, some still just doesn't get it.

As I can only speak for myself, and what I have been saying all along, I don't give a rat's arse what Russia or Putin does, nor have I ever taken a stand to defend whatever it was they're doing. My beef in this entire stupidity is the illegal overthrow of a legitimate government (coerced, manipulated, supported, orchestrated) by my own government for our own geopolitical advantage....

I have not seen any factual reports supporting your claim.  This is all about Europe, not America.  Even if Ukraine survives this mess and develops a viable economy,  America's trade with Ukraine will be small.  We do not need their grain, sunflower seed oil, or steel.  One of the articles cited by Muzh remarks how America has outsourced the Ukrainian issue to Germany.  I assert whatever we did had little effect to what was already underway.

....like we did in Yugoslavia.

Again, your accusations do not hold water.  Whatever America did came after the fact of Yugoslavia disintegrating because of internal factors. 
And what America did in the 1990s was in lockstep with European powers.   I recall that George Bush supported Yugoslavian unity. 

The history of the Balkans is one of the more complex subjects in Academia, with much occurring before America was more than a few colonies.  And while America was a young, isolationist nation, even more happened (can you say WW I which begat WW II).  It is amazing how Tito held the disparate regions together to form a unified Yugoslavia in the aftermath of WW II and kept them together for 50 years. 

If you have a particular thesis you wish to elaborate, please do.  I will have it verified or denied by one of my best friends, a PhD Swede married to a Serb and residing in Belgrade.  His hobby is Balkan history, plus his wife was head of the Communist  party at her university.   So you will receive a bicameral response. 

One very interesting thing however, it seems rather absurd to me that a *superpower* nation would have soldiers who can be 'lost' close to a 'hot zone'.

     I know first hand that it happened in the US Army. 

[GQBlues]

I have not seen any factual reports supporting your claim.  This is all about Europe, not America....

I sent a bit of this 'factual report upthread with my discussion with Boethius. Maybe a page past this current one.

...Even if Ukraine survives this mess and develops a viable economy,  America's trade with Ukraine will be small.  We do not need their grain, sunflower seed oil, or steel.  One of the articles cited by Muzh remarks how America has outsourced the Ukrainian issue to Germany.  I assert whatever we did had little effect to what was already underway...

America's core interest in this has nothing to do with *economics*. That's EU's business.

...Again, your accusations do not hold water.  Whatever America did came after the fact of Yugoslavia disintegrating because of internal factors...

LOL. You should go ahead and consult  your PhD *friend* ASAP and do ask him how Germany and the US was involved in the Balkans of the '90s.
 

...And what America did in the 1990s was in lockstep with European powers.   I recall that George Bush supported Yugoslavian unity....

Did you mean when we couldn't get a UN resolution, we instead made it a NATO business because of European's inaction and apprehension to get involved in that conflict? LMAO!

WTF does NATO have anything to do with Yugoslavia anyway to begin with? You might also want to ask your Swede friend about that.     

...The history of the Balkans is one of the more complex subjects in Academia, with much occurring before America was more than a few colonies.  And while America was a young, isolationist nation, even more happened (can you say WW I which begat WW II).  It is amazing how Tito held the disparate regions together to form a unified Yugoslavia in the aftermath of WW II and kept them together for 50 years....

Sorry, way before my time. Your generation I suppose, no? 

If you have a particular thesis you wish to elaborate, please do.

Not thesis. Just the facts, baby...

   I know first hand that it happened in the US Army....

...and I won't be surprised it was your company, right?  We were talking about 'elite' soldiers.

[GQBlues]

Bit: BBC previously aired an Alan Little's, a BBC correspondent, documentary titled: *Moral Combat. NATO at War*

Bit 1: "I believed in the ultimate power, the goodness of the power of the allies and led by the United States. Spring has come early!" Madeline Albright.

Bit 2: "There were a couple of times when I felt I just can't do this any more. We're just not doing this right and I owe it to my people to stand up and say we're just not doing this right!" Gen. Michael Short