The Propaganda War

[jone]

There were only three who signed the agreement, guaranteeing territorial integrity.  Russia, Great Britain and the US.  One of the three admits sending soldiers into a portion of Ukraine and carving off a part of it (Krim) while the other two have clearly not lived up to their promises. 

The fourth, Ukraine, was a signatory who fulfilled their obligation, which was giving up the nukes.  Then, made the mistake of picking up a bar of soap in the shower.

[mendeleyev]

Exactly, which is why I personally would not protest if Ukraine were to have her nuclear program restarted.

[AkMike]

There were only three who signed the agreement, guaranteeing territorial integrity.  Russia, Great Britain and the US.  One of the three admits sending soldiers into a portion of Ukraine and carving off a part of it (Krim) while the other two have clearly not lived up to their promises. 

The fourth, Ukraine, was a signatory who fulfilled their obligation, which was giving up the nukes.  Then, made the mistake of picking up a bar of soap in the shower.

 France and China also signed a some what weaker version of assurances to Ukraine, Belarus and K-stan.  Belarus may be in for the same treatment as Ukraine has in the foreseeable future.

[jone]

Agreed Mike. 

But the original agreement had the four parties signing it.  Russia's belligerence and the US and GB's weak response is the new norm.   If the US had any backbone, they would have responded and honored their commitment.

[southernX]

Exactly, which is why I personally would not protest if Ukraine were to have her nuclear program restarted.

agree mendy

personaly i think in the future a nuclear detterent may be the best  option for ukraine and others including us in australia

given the increase in aggression around the world this may not be as dangerous as it at first sounds

SX

[fathertime]

agree mendy

personaly i think in the future a nuclear detterent may be the best  option for ukraine and others including us in australia

given the increase in aggression around the world this may not be as dangerous as it at first sounds

SX

Unfortunately I am starting to agree...look at all the countries the US has recently attacked, and is attacking,using drones on, or supplying air power and support to rebels....if these countries had nukes they wouldn't be touched.  A big problem would be how to keep the weapons secure,and out of the hands of those that would use them for terror.


Fathertime!   

[mendeleyev]

From a nuke safety perspective, Ukraine is safer than even Russia. Ukraine lacks the large populations of restless (and sometimes for good reason) Islamic regions, and Nazi-nationalist groups. Both those are in far greater numbers in Russia.

On an organized crime and corruption threat, Ukraine is slowly gaining distance from Russia on this as well. In Ukraine you still have both, but there is now a growing will of the people to stop corruption, whereas in Russia it is not only ingrained, but it is official economic doctrine.

[Larissa2]

Every dog is valiant at his own door.

Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.

[krimster2]

В чужо́м глазу́ сори́нку заме́тно, а в своём -- бревна́ не вида́ть

[krimster2]

Лучше молчать и думать дураком, чем говорить и удалить все сомнения

[AkMike]

Лучше молчать и думать дураком, чем говорить и удалить все сомнения

 Very fitting..

[cc3]

Every dog is valiant at his own door.

Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.

Which is why Ukraine is putting up such a valiant fight against Putin's invading muscovite eur-asiatic hordes. If Putin does not leave Ukraine soon many, many more Cargo 200 trucks will be stealthily transporting deceased Russian corpses back to the motherland for secret disposal by the dictatorship.

[mendeleyev]

I am stealing this from my friend Pete over at Moscow FM, Moscow's only English language radio station:

How to be Russian today:
1. Wear European and American clothes.
2. Wear American and European jewelry.
3. Drive American and European cars.
4. Use American smartphones and computers.
5. Watch American and European films and television shows.
6. Travel to Europe and America.
7. Eat European and American food.
8. Buy property in Europe or America.
9. Post on social networks how much you hate America and Europe.

[John of Hesperia]

I am stealing this from my friend Pete over at Moscow RM, Moscow's only English language radio station:

How to be Russian today:
1. Wear European and American clothes.
2. Wear American and European jewelry.
3. Drive American and European cars.
4. Use American smartphones and computers.
5. Watch American and European films and television shows.
6. Travel to Europe and America.
7. Eat European and American food.
8. Buy property in Europe or America.
9. Post on social networks how much you hate America and Europe.

Sounds like typical Progressive/Liberal Americans, but especially #9.

[Larissa2]

 Why the Russia will not climbs to the US? Why is the US all time climbs in Russia?So strange.Very interesting.

[Boethius]

Sounds like typical Progressive/Liberal Americans, but especially #9.

Why do I get the feeling John is one of those guys sitting on his porch, yelling at kids to get off his darn lawn?

The interesting and/or innovative clothing, jewelry, computers, films, and television shows are created almost exclusively by "progressives".

[Boethius]

Why the Russia will not climbs to the US? Why is the US all time climbs in Russia?So strange.Very interesting.

How is the US "climbing" to Russia?  I'm trying to think how you translated this to understand what you are trying to say.

[mendeleyev]

Why the Russia will not climbs to the US? Why is the US all time climbs in Russia?So strange.Very interesting.

I think you need to open your eyes, Larisa. First, it was Vladimir Putin who invited the USA to have a NATO base inside Russia for the USA to use for Afghanistan. I didn't see many Russians complaining about the money for rent the USA paid to the Kremlin. Back then, Putin was willing to rent Russia to NATO for money. Now, he claims that NATO is too close. Strange, very strange.

Are you aware of Russia in American's backyard, her near abroad? Central and South America have always been considered close to, but not ruled by, the USA. Now you have Russia in BRICS which starts with B, for Brazil. You also have Russian military participating in drills with Argentina and Venezuela, and Russia is building a nuclear submarine base in Venezuela, backyard of the USA.

I find it strange, very strange, that you do not know about this!

 

[fathertime]

Are you aware of Russia in American's backyard, her near abroad? Central and South America have always been considered close to, but not ruled by, the USA. Now you have Russia in BRICS which starts with B, for Brazil. You also have Russian military participating in drills with Argentina and Venezuela, and Russia is building a nuclear submarine base in Venezuela, backyard of the USA.

At this point, I don't think many of the South American countries consider themselves the backyard of the USA.  There is a lot of fouled sentiment in many of the regions due to some of the exploitative things we have done in the past.  That being said, clearly the US does exercise some indirect control over the regions, and Russia being present at all, is probably seen as a thorn in our side. 


Fathertime! 

[mendeleyev]

One of our rare points of agreement..... 

[Muzh]

I didn't say American politics is as corrupt as in Ukraine.  But you look at the money needed to run in federal elections, how much is needed for the presidency, look at the candidates, look at the influence various players have (Wall Street bankers, for one), look at how many members of Congress don't leave office wealthier than when they entered, then tell me with a straight face the US political system is not corrupt.

Heh, there are TWO people who are planning on spending about $900,000,000 to get a GOP president elected. Now, what is the difference from Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs?

[Muzh]

Sounds like typical Progressive/Liberal Americans, but especially #9.

My, my, my. You sound just like Larissa. Nothing like a little dissent to scream I hate America. Right?


And here are all these open-minded Americans LECTURING Larissa about how to be tolerant and allow the dissenters to express their POV.


Yeah, right.

[Muzh]

How is the US "climbing" to Russia?  I'm trying to think how you translated this to understand what you are trying to say.

Maybe she meant "mounting?" That would make sense. 

[krimster2]

Larissa,

1945 part of Czechoslovakia was taken by the Soviet Union
1945 part of Poland was taken by the Soviet Union
1944 part of Finland was taken by the Soviet Union
1945 part of Japan was taken by the Soviet Union
1945 part of Germany was taken by the Soviet Union
1940 Latvia was taken by the Soviet Union
1940 Lithuania was taken by the Soviet Union
1940 Estonia was taken by the Soviet Union
1940 Moldova  was taken by the Soviet Union
1920 Mongolia was taken  by the Soviet Union
2008 part of Georgia was taken by Russia
2014 part of Ukraine was taken by Russia

Can you point to me the area around Russia and show me a single square centimeter taken by that horrible all-conquering enemy of yours “America”???  No, you can’t, and of course almost every single one of the countries listed above is now a member of a military alliance with the United States.  Who do you think THESE countries are afraid of, and why do you think they joined such an alliance? 

Is Russia upset because it fears America will try to “conquer its territory”, or is Russia upset because these alliances interfere with Russia’s future territorial expansion ambitions? 

[Boethius]

Every dog is valiant at his own door.

Tell her this, as she stands at her father's grave.  Her sin?  To be born in Ukraine, next door to Putinmania.