Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: viking on September 29, 2008, 08:52:01 AM
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Is it normal for a RW to encourage her son to participate in sex? The situation here is an AM who married a RW and brought both her and her 17yo son over. For some reason she is buying her son condoms (not a bad thing) but encourages him to have consensual sex with his girl friend, in their home, and here is the kicker, while she and her husband are in the house. I know when I was growing up and wanted to engage in sex, it was in the back seat of my car or a motel, basically as far away from my parents as possible. And there was no way my parents would have had any of this. Any married guys here with this type of situation? Is this more a cultural thing or more of an individual level.
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In the above situation, the only thing that might to a certain extent be defined as cultural, would be the mother's tendency to think that her son as a young man will have sex, that this is a male nature to have sex anyway, anyhow and at whatever cost. As a RW, the mother may believe that nothing, no type of risks and no any considerations could stop her son to have sex.
Russian mentality rather assumes that male behaviour comprises being sexual active. Some think that sexual abstinence may even harm a man, especially a young one. Parents of a daughter may chose just to prohibit the girl to have sex, and that's it. Parents of a son would hardly do it.
IMHO she may be prompted not to encourage her son to have sex, but to have it in the least risky situation and in a safe environment, bearing in mind that he would otherwise do it in more risky, even dangerous situations and with eventual bad consequences. Instead she chose to let the man have it under supervision :)
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Even if what you say is true in terms of Russian mentality of male behaviour, that still leaves open the second half of the question of 'doing it' in the home with parents present. I would have a problem watching TV with the bed clanking upstairs and the noise coming through the walls.
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While the assumption that teenage boys in the FSU will be having sex is certainly there, I don't think there is the encouragement to do so that I see in this case. I don't know of any respectable teen boys there who would consider having sex in their parents home with their knowledge. Maybe on the side when the parents are away, but it is more of a "Don't ask don't tell" policy similar to what you would expect in the US and certainly not when the parents are present.
Lily, what exactly do you mean by sex under "supervision"? Unless mom is there to personally put the condom on, it's still a risky venture.
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Sounds like an extremely controlling mother. :) Not a rarity among RW.
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BF
Are you saying that most RW mothers are a bit (?) controlling when it comes to children? Makes me ponder upon my own situation/relationship with a woman who has a son of similiar age.
Scott
I understand that most boys in their teenage years will be in the experimentation or later stages when it comes to sex, but..... a mother buying condoms? :o She cannot just tell her son to go and puchase them himself?
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BF
Are you saying that most RW mothers are a bit (?) controlling when it comes to children? Makes me ponder upon my own situation/relationship with a woman who has a son of similiar age.
I didn't say "most RW", did I?
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Scott
I understand that most boys in their teenage years will be in the experimentation or later stages when it comes to sex, but..... a mother buying condoms? :o She cannot just tell her son to go and puchase them himself?
While shopping with my son I just bought a pack, then later tossed them to him and told him to be careful. Helps overcome any initial embarrassment about purchasing them. If a father is not around then shouldn't be any reason the mother shouldn't be able do the same.
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This is rather funny. The first time ever I was exposed to the idea of kids having sex in their parents' home was from some US movie in the late 1970s or thereabouts. Sounded very innovative at that time ;D.
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I didn't say "most RW", did I?
No, you did not. You said not a rarity, which I interpreted to mean somewhat common.
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Even if what you say is true in terms of Russian mentality of male behaviour, that still leaves open the second half of the question of 'doing it' in the home with parents present. I would have a problem watching TV with the bed clanking upstairs and the noise coming through the walls.
Viking, and you would be correct in assuming that these young adults are NOT doing it at there parents home with parents being present. This is one of the reasons why on average the Ukraine woman of 22 is going to have far fewer sexual partners than her American counterpart of 22 (which I see I need to explain to Kievstar).
Most of our American girls of 18, 19, 20 are dieing to "flee the coup", to get away from mom and dad, to get their own independence. Often times these young women of 19, 20 will get with one of their girlfriends and go in together and rent their first apartment. Many of these young women enjoy their new found freedom to the fullest, which includes overnight stays by their boyfriends, and over a period of a few years, many boyfriends.
The same young lady in Ukraine (or Russia) often does not leave home until she marries. These 18, 19, 20, 21 year old young women are NOT bringing new boyfriends to mom and dad's flat every other month and the are DAMN sure not having sex in mom and dad's flat with the parents present.
In my opinion, and this is based on my own experience, and from that of my oldest son, my youngest son and daughter, other American families I know, our young American adults are having a lot more sex and with many more sexual partners than the average Ukraine/Russian young adult.
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Lily, what exactly do you mean by sex under "supervision"? Unless mom is there to personally put the condom on, it's still a risky venture.
By 'supervision' for this situation I meant some control from parents, at least their presence around the house. Agree that this is still a risky venture, but it seems that the woman in example just wanted to bring the risk to a minimum, in her own opinion.
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By 'supervision' for this situation I meant some control from parents, at least their presence around the house. Agree that this is still a risky venture, but it seems that the woman in example just wanted to bring the risk to a minimum, in her own opinion.
I'm sorry but I just don't see what risks this would minimize. What exactly are the parents controlling?
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While shopping with my son I just bought a pack, then later tossed them to him and told him to be careful. Helps overcome any initial embarrassment about purchasing them. If a father is not around then shouldn't be any reason the mother shouldn't be able do the same.
BC,
I had that same moment with my son. It was a little early for him, but my rational was "better too rearly than too late." As I proudly relayed the story to my GF at the time, she busted me. "So Ken, if you are such a progressive Dad, why have you not had the same experience with your daughter?" She is a year and a half older too. So again proving that I was progressive I bought some for my daughter. When I had my talk with her and handed her the condoms, my daughter got the best of me. She told me, "Dad, these are not the GOOD ones!" :hairraising: :zappedhim:
Sheesh!
KenC
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I'm sorry but I just don't see what risks this would minimize. What exactly are the parents controlling?
Most controlling parents don't take the trouble to rationalize what exactly they're controlling. The fact of control is what matters.
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Old joke comes to mind... :D
Парень с девушкой занимаются любовью у него дома. Неожиданно возвращаются родители. Парень думает: "Ну все, засекли, говорил же - давай в следующий раз!" Девушка: "Ага, теперь он будет обязан на мне жениться!" Отец: "Да-а, сынок подрастает, нужно парню мотоцикл купить". Мать: "Боже мой, как она лежит - ведь мальчику неудобно!"
Guy and girl are having sex in his house. Suddenly his parents come home and see them doing it. Guy is thinking: "Busted! And I've told her, lets do it some other time!" Girl's thinking: "Good! Now he has to marry me!" Father's thinking: "Oh-oh, my boy is all grown up already... I got to buy him a motorcycle." Mother's thinking: "She should change her position - looks like it's very uncomfortable for my boy!"
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The same young lady in Ukraine (or Russia) often does not leave home until she marries.
How about going to college to another city and living in a dorm? Or "doing it" at home while parents at work. If there is a will there is a way. ;)
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Jack, in my posts I did not just include girls under 22 years old. I said women in general. So who are these young Russian men having sex with, just one girl servicing the entire country? Come on. Also, a lot more places to have sex than a parents apartment.
Every agency owner always has to talk about how much better Ukraine / Russia women are - I know it is business. So it makes sense why you will do this.
Young Russian men are having sex and there not having it with older women. Unless there virgins too.
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Question for the Russian ladies here: If it is typical for a Russian mother to encourage their son's to have sex, is their attitude toward their daughters different? How so?
KenC
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In my family both my brother and I were encouraged to think about possible consequences of having sex and how the consequences would affect our lives.
Neither had I known anyone encouraged to have sex by his/her parents nor had I heard about such an occurrence until today. Hence, I may say that a mother controlling her child by means of the method described by Viking is an exceptional phenomena.
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Most controlling parents don't take the trouble to rationalize what exactly they're controlling. The fact of control is what matters.
Blues Fairy is quite right here. I admit I have been thinking long about what the parents may in fact control in the situation when their son is having sex :) :)
But eventually I try to be rationale and try to walk in the mother's shoes, from what I have heard from other mothers. Probably she may want to control who is sexual partner of her son (the girl that she knows), the environment where her son has sex (comfortable apartment), the general situation before and after sex. In other words, they want to control as many things in the life of their kid as they can.
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Question for the Russian ladies here: If it is typical for a Russian mother to encourage their son's to have sex, is their attitude toward their daughters different? How so?
KenC
I would not say that they encourage the youngs to have sex. If there is about young men, the parents may think of sex as of something that will happen, that's it.
However I have to say that the attitude towards daughters is different, at least from what I have seen in Russian families. Other people may have different experiences. Girls are treated more strictly in regard of having sex. On their turn, mothers can be also more or less controlling, but the general tendency is that the daugthers are under more strict control than sons.
The reason of the difference may be because females should bear direct consequences of sex, that is becaming pregnant. Unlike men, women are immediately liable to mother nature for having sex, and are therefore directly charged for sex, and may be charged for a lifetime. Mothers therefore teach their daughters to be very prudent about a decision to have sex.
Another reason may be a belief that sex for men is a basic need that has to be satisfyed. Lack of sex may negatively impact a male. Some people think, for females there is no need for sex, especially if it is a young girl. Hence, sex for is a need for men but not for women. Surprisingly, some also believe that lack of sex may negatively affect health of a mature woman, but this is another cup of tea.
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I would not say that they encourage the youngs to have sex. If there is about young men, the parents may think of sex as of something that will happen, that's it.
However I have to say that the attitude towards daughters is different, at least from what I have seen in Russian families. Other people may have different experiences. Girls are treated more strictly in regard of having sex. On their turn, mothers can be also more or less controlling, but the general tendency is that the daugthers are under more strict control than sons.
The reason of the difference may be because females should bear direct consequences of sex, that is becaming pregnant. Unlike men, women are immediately liable to mother nature for having sex, and are therefore directly charged for sex, and may be charged for a lifetime. Mothers therefore teach their daughters to be very prudent about a decision to have sex.
Another reason may be a belief that sex for men is a basic need that has to be satisfyed. Lack of sex may negatively impact a male. Some people think, for females there is no need for sex, especially if it is a young girl. Hence, sex for is a need for men but not for women. Surprisingly, some also believe that lack of sex may negatively affect health of a mature woman, but this is another cup of tea.
I remember when my teenage son brought girls home.. They went to his room and I left them in peace.. OTOH when the same happened with our daughter (a bit younger) I was pacing and knocking 4 sure..
Yeah there is a double standard, don't know if that's good or bad but many of your thoughts seem to fit right in line.
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My daughters can have sex after they are 30, the man can find the key to the chasitity belt which will be hidden in an obscure country and they have been completely checked out by the FBI, the CIA and Homeland Security. In my dreams. Yes, I do think there is a double standard precisely because of what Lilly said. The girls bear the brunt of any mistakes. All a good parent can do is teach them, advise them, and then hope for the best.
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If it is typical for a Russian mother to encourage their son's to have sex, is their attitude toward their daughters different? How so?
I wouldn't say it's typical to encourage sex among kids, be they sons or daughters. The consensus seems to be, "education should be your #1 concern". :D A mother's degree of resistance depends on her attitude to the kid. Some overprotective moms/dads will try to suppress ANY manifestation of their child's sexuality. Some moms will be overprotective of their sons (mamma's boys, where any girl is considered a threat). Fathers, on the other hand, will tend to safeguard their daughters, while encouraging their son's macho behavior.
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One data point:
My Moscow wife had a problem with my younger son and his loud lovers. She thinks it is too much for her 11-yo daughter and 12-yo son, whose bedrooms are nearby. He and I had a talk. There is no noise now while we are awake.
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Is it normal for a RW to encourage her son to participate in sex?
No. I would say it is an exceptional and wise mother who managed to overcome age-old stereotypes against sex and realized that it is not so bad as the clergy try to depict thus not a problem at all. I guess you would not mind your kids having dinner in your home or playing computer games so what’s wrong with sex?
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I guess you would not mind your kids having dinner in your home or playing computer games so what’s wrong with sex?
ahhhh,.....what? Am I reading this correctly? Excuse me igor, I am having a hard time understanding how these thoughts of yours can even remotely be related.
As I inderstand this topic was relating to teenage kid's.
How is your kid's having dinner or playing computer games at home be seen in the same light as a responsible parent allowing the kid's to also having sex in your home? In some states in America, depending on the age of the teenager, a parent could go to jail for allowing such to happen.
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I guess you would not mind your kids having dinner in your home or playing computer games so what’s wrong with sex?
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Good grief... is this the mind of a typical Ukrainian male?
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ahhhh,.....what? Am I reading this correctly? Excuse me igor, I am having a hard time understanding how these thoughts of yours can even remotely be related.
As I inderstand this topic was relating to teenage kid's.
How is your kid's having dinner or playing computer games at home be seen in the same light as a responsible parent allowing the kid's to also having sex in your home? In some states in America, depending on the age of the teenager, a parent could go to jail for allowing such to happen.
Yeah that's some states in America.. - no laws broken here.
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Last I checked, you can't get AIDS or become pregnant from eating dinner or playing video games, but with the advances in technology, maybe I'm wrong.
Nine year olds do both of these, so are you suggesting that sex for them should be just as acceptable and casual?
One of the roles of parents is to provide guidance as to what is appropriate and at what age it is appropriate, as well as what behaviors are acceptable in their home. Parents are not required to accommodate the wants of their kids if it in any way makes them uncomfortable. I guess some feel no discomfort hearing the bangs and moans of their son or daughter in the next room, but for me personally I don't care if it's a child, my parents or a friend, I just don't need to hear it. Maybe that makes me a puritan, but so be it.
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Scott,
Much of parenting is presented by example.. Think the kids don't hear our 'bangs and moans'?
Yes, 9 is a bit young, but when talking about 15 upwards...
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Scott,
Much of parenting is presented by example.. Think the kids don't hear our 'bangs and moans'?
Yes, 9 is a bit young, but when talking about 15 upwards...
Sorry BC, but try having sex with a 15 year old and see what happens...
9 is a "bit" young? Now you are worrying me.
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Sorry BC, but try having sex with a 15 year old and see what happens...
9 is a "bit" young? Now you are worrying me.
Scott,
When I was growing up, the first 'real' sexual experiences were somewhere in the late teens to early 20's.. Since then it the tendency (exacerbated by the availability of information/stimulation online) is a definite downward trend...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe
Here in much of Europe the age of consent is somewhere between 14 and 16 whereas in the US between 16 and 18.
Strangely enough, in this mostly Catholic country of Italy with one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates and lowest divorce rates, the age of consent was raised a while back.. from 12 to 14.
Yes 9 is a bit young.. so don't be worried.
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Some people start experimenting at an earlier age than others. Some have full blown sexual experiences earlier than others, regardless of the country. Look at our deep south versus the northeast as an example. But having a parent flip the kid a condom and go have sex while preparing dinner is not what I would want to happen in my home. I am not hung up on sex, am not a puritan, but not so liberal as to condone this type of behaviour. Whats next? Having mom and dad do it in front of the kids so they can have first hand knowledge of how it is done? "Hey son, I am going to screw mom now, want to watch, learn some tricks so you don't look like a dummy"? Where is the sense of deceny? I would rather pay him to go to a respectable whorehouse. I wish there was an icon for puking.
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Some people start experimenting at an earlier age than others. Some have full blown sexual experiences earlier than others, regardless of the country. Look at our deep south versus the northeast as an example. But having a parent flip the kid a condom and go have sex while preparing dinner is not what I would want to happen in my home. I am not hung up on sex, am not a puritan, but not so liberal as to condone this type of behaviour. Whats next? Having mom and dad do it in front of the kids so they can have first hand knowledge of how it is done? "Hey son, I am going to screw mom now, want to watch, learn some tricks so you don't look like a dummy"? Where is the sense of deceny? I would rather pay him to go to a respectable whorehouse. I wish there was an icon for puking.
Decency? have him do something illegal (in the US) rather than smooching in his BR?
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Scott,
When I was growing up, the first 'real' sexual experiences were somewhere in the late teens to early 20's.. Since then it the tendency (exacerbated by the availability of information/stimulation online) is a definite downward trend...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe
Here in much of Europe the age of consent is somewhere between 14 and 16 whereas in the US between 16 and 18.
Strangely enough, in this mostly Catholic country of Italy with one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates and lowest divorce rates, the age of consent was raised a while back.. from 12 to 14.
Yes 9 is a bit young.. so don't be worried.
And what would you consider the "age of consent" for your daughter? For your son?
I always told my daughters that they couldn't date until they were at least 25. They should stay at home with their father where they belonged. Of course they didn't listen. :noidea:
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BC
Smooching I can handle. He/she can smooch ( kiss) with their partner in front of me anytime. We are talking about fornication in the parents house, while the parents are home, with the encouragement of the RW. It's not just the moans and groans, it is the basic concept of teenage sex without discretion. And of course I was talking about the houses of ill repute in Amsterdam. ;D
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No. I would say it is an exceptional and wise mother who managed to overcome age-old stereotypes against sex and realized that it is not so bad as the clergy try to depict thus not a problem at all. I guess you would not mind your kids having dinner in your home or playing computer games so what’s wrong with sex?
Bizarre, totally bizarre
Viking,
:puke:
KenC
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BC
Smooching I can handle. He/she can smooch ( kiss) with their partner in front of me anytime. We are talking about fornication in the parents house, while the parents are home, with the encouragement of the RW. It's not just the moans and groans, it is the basic concept of teenage sex without discretion. And of course I was talking about the houses of ill repute in Amsterdam. ;D
So discrete teenage sex is ok? And sending your son to a brothel is ok if it's legalized? Or?
I'm just trying to get a handle on the thing that's offensive to some people here.
I mean, teenage sex will happen whether it's with parental consent or not. Maybe some of you are so old now that you don't remember the incredible sexual urges you had in your teens but I do; seriously, it will happen or they will try everything to get it to happen.
So what do you do? Do you ignore it, say nothing and hope it doesn't happen in or out of the house? Do you forbid it? Only allow it out of the house?
Or do you try to be a mature, sensible adult and try to educate your kids to be as responsible as they are able given their raging hormones and throw them (girls and boys) a pack of condoms every now and then? Encouraging them to have sex in their early teens is a bit much I'll admit and it doesn't fit with my idea of being responsible but allowing them to have their private space where they are trusted to do the right thing is something else entirely. Will they eventually have sex there? Most probably, but better there than in a dark alley when they are drunk one night; although both aren't mutually exclusive, I know which I'd have preferred if given the choice as a teenager.
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I understand that lots of us here are pretty... well... mature, let say :D so the memories are fading... but!.. you still gotta remember some of the juicy teenager escapades... or were you born old right way? :D
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I understand that lots of us here are pretty... well... mature, let say :D so the memories are fading... but!.. you still gotta remember some of the juicy teenager escapades... or were you born old right way? :D
I think I remember all of mine and I also remember being incredibly uninformed and it's a wonder nothing went, um, awry... :D
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I think I remember all of mine and I also remember being incredibly uninformed and it's a wonder nothing went, um, awry... :D
I'm sure I had some kind of guardian angel looking after me with all the stupid stuff I pulled off back then... :o
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Ken
grazzy as (southern CA spanish)
Viking
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Yeah that's some states in America..
The more I learn about the US the less I wish to live there. :wallbash:
Last I checked, you can't get AIDS or become pregnant from eating dinner or playing video games, but with the advances in technology, maybe I'm wrong.
Last time I checked, you cannot accidentaly get killed with a knife or fork when having sex. Technically, you can be suffocated with a condom though but I haven’t heard of such cases. Does it mean that knives and forks should only be legal to be used by adults and kids must be fed with a spoon until they are 18? Does it mean that eating is more dangerous than sex?
Not to mention driving or riding. Kids can harm themselves falling of bikes. Should bikes be illegal until 18 too? Etc, etc.
As for AIDS, you know I don’t believe in this media hype. :rolleyes2:
So discrete teenage sex is ok? And sending your son to a brothel is ok if it's legalized? Or?
Which reminds me of an old joke. Woman says to husband: time to tell our son about, well, birds and bees. He scratches his head and heads for his 15 y.o. son’s room. Son, do you remember the brothel we went to yesterday? Yeah, 'twas good. Theirs something I have to tell ya, mother says it's time for you to know it has something with birds and bees, okay? Not sure what she means but anyway… ;D
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Old joke comes to mind... :D
Guy and girl are having sex in his house. Suddenly his parents come home and see them doing it. Guy is thinking: "Busted! And I've told her, lets do it some other time!" Girl's thinking: "Good! Now he has to marry me!" Father's thinking: "Oh-oh, my boy is all grown up already... I got to buy him a motorcycle." Mother's thinking: "She should change her position - looks like it's very uncomfortable for my boy!"
:D :D
I don't know if this joke is knew or old:
Mother: Dear, I think it is time... you should have a man-to-man talk with our son about sex.
Father: and what should I tell him?
Mother: you can start for example with birds and bees ...
Father: Son, do you remember three days ago we visited two who-es?
Son; Yes, Dad.
Father: So... the birds and bees do the same things that we did at that time.
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As for AIDS, you know I don’t believe in this media hype. :rolleyes2:
..and THAT attitude might explain a lot about FSU figures for HIV/ Aids which are always understated.. :( ... and I guess Elton John just performs concerts in Kiev to boost his sales, rather than awareness ?! ;)
..anyone notice that Russia requires an HIV test for long-term stays / residency !
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..and THAT attitude might explain a lot about FSU figures for HIV/ Aids which are always understated..
Agree with you Mark.
During one flight from Moscow I met a US Govt scientist working on AIDS and TB. He said AIDS is growing and the growth has derived largely from heterosexual activities. As in Africa, he plotted high incidence along transportation routes (i. e., truck drivers and prostitutes).
While Stirlitz may not drive a truck nor use the services of prostitutes, the interconnection is possible if one is not careful. In addition, FSU women do not necessarily demand that the man use a condom.
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Agree with you Mark.
*That's* is not good for my "image" ;) .. but seriously, I don't want to seem like I'm singling out Igor.. I see this attitude in some FSU guys and gals - as if *it* can't "get" them....
In addition, FSU women do not necessarily demand that the man use a condom.
Which is WHY I'd recommend "packing" ....
It has always stuck in my mind.. an HIV/Aids awareness campaign from 1986/7 in the UK...
"when you are having sex with someone -it might even be your first time- but you are sleeping with everyone they or their partners slept with..." :o
I tried to remember that when the "Little head" was trying to "take control" ! ;)
On a VERY serious note: I had to have a comprehensive test done ( including an HIV/Aids test ) when going for a life insurance policy in Cyprus..
I was told I'd get the results back in 24 Hours... After 3 days I'd heard NOTHING...
So I called, the receptionist recognised me and her voice changed from "happy" to "nervous" .. she asked me to hold for the Doctor... ( a lady)
The Lady Doctor came on the phone and asked me to come in and discuss my results... it was CLEAR there was "problem" :o
I drove to the clinic in a VERY nervous state... "CHRIST", I thought - had one act of passion landed me in the "cr*p" .. Would anyone want to go near me again.. I was single at the time...
I arrived at the Clinic and I could see the look in the eyes of the Receptionist - the pity - UNMISTAKABLE ... SH*T.. WHAT had I done/ not done .. hadn't I been "careful"? ..
I had to wait for 15 minutes and saw the Doctor show out a couple who had clearly just been given great news.. Then the Doctor saw I was waiting... she looked at the receptionist and ordered strong Cypriot coffee for us - I saw THAT look again .. pity.. dread.... CR*P , CR*P and double crap....
I sat down and said, " Let's not wait for the Coffee, it's not good news, huh ?"
Doctor: " I'm sorry Mr Mark, no , I've doubled checked - I'm so sorry - I have terrible news...." and she looks into my eyes, with such pity... " we cannot find any sperm - not even a DEAD one ...."
LONG Silence..
Me: and that's the BAD news?!" ....
Doctor: Well, yes she says .. you told me you've had *the operation*... and I'm afraid it didn't work :(
Me: starting to BEAM from ear to ear .. that's *all* the BAD news ?!!
Doctor: (looking VERY perplexed).... Yes, I'm afraid your operation wasn't a success
Me: Sorry, Madam, but you've had me SH*TTING myself.... What do *you* call *the operation*?
Doctor: (looking very confused) to enhance sperm production.. so many men take steroids here...
Me: Madam, SCREW the coffee( just as the receptionist walks carrying a tray) - and is shocked to see my smiling face.. in MY Country * the operation* is to STOP sperm production and I had the vasectomy five years ago :))) ... I thought I had some terrible disease...:D
I left the clinic floating on air, and ( remembering the initial shock that something must be wrong, and how I would cope ) I promised myself from that day forward to be "careful" ...
Isn't monogamy GREAT ?!
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Agree with you Mark.
During one flight from Moscow I met a US Govt scientist working on AIDS and TB. He said AIDS is growing and the growth has derived largely from heterosexual activities.
You need to be careful about how the statistics are interpreted and grouped. For example, for years they were claiming that only 1/3 of AIDS cases were homosexuals, implying that 2/3rds of cases were heterosexual. The intent was to scare everyone into thinking it wasn't just a "gay" problem and therefore gain more support for research money. But if you looked at how they broke down the groups, they separated those who were strictly homosexual from those who were bisexual or both homosexual and IV drug abusers. Throw in those who were IV drug abusers and the actual percentage of heterosexual cases not related to IV drug use was very small.
As far as everything I have read about the increase in AIDS in Russia (not speaking for Africa where the situation is quite different), it is attributed to IV drug users more than anything, as well as increased detection thanks to the government and charity funded programs in whose best interests it is to find the highest number of cases possible.
I'm certainly not saying that it isn't a significant problem that needs to be addressed, just that sometimes the perceptions can be misleading due to either intentional or unintentional reasons.
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In the above situation, the only thing that might to a certain extent be defined as cultural, would be the mother's tendency to think that her son as a young man will have sex, that this is a male nature to have sex anyway, anyhow and at whatever cost. As a RW, the mother may believe that nothing, no type of risks and no any considerations could stop her son to have sex.
Russian mentality rather assumes that male behaviour comprises being sexual active. Some think that sexual abstinence may even harm a man, especially a young one. Parents of a daughter may chose just to prohibit the girl to have sex, and that's it. Parents of a son would hardly do it.
IMHO she may be prompted not to encourage her son to have sex, but to have it in the least risky situation and in a safe environment, bearing in mind that he would otherwise do it in more risky, even dangerous situations and with eventual bad consequences. Instead she chose to let the man have it under supervision :)
I almost agree with you, Lily. I don't think that this case has anything to do with cultural peculiarities. I don't think that RW are any different from other European women. What this case shows is the Oedipus complex at play. Incest is more widespread than most people would like to think. If it wasn't for incest we wouldn't be here! You can be 'innovative' with incest too. Think of the possibilities! And you don't even need condoms as it's all in the family! :rolleyes2:
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During one flight from Moscow I met a US Govt scientist working on AIDS and TB. He said AIDS is growing and the growth has derived largely from heterosexual activities.
Yeah, whatever scientists say… Do you really want me to look up examples of stupid forecasts made by scientists that have never come true? I guess you can remember on your own… We are supposed to have been below the sea level for a few years already to name just one.
I can never understand this fascination with scientists and physicians and trusting every word they utter.
Have some common sense and don’t trust whatever they want you to believe.
FSU women do not necessarily demand that the man use a condom.
How many FSU women have you, er, hacked? (With an ax or condom ;)). I am interested in the exact percentage figures :D
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None of your business, Mr. Chlamydia.
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As far as everything I have read about the increase in AIDS in Russia (not speaking for Africa where the situation is quite different), it is attributed to IV drug users more than anything, as well as increased detection thanks to the government and charity funded programs in whose best interests it is to find the highest number of cases possible.
Yes, I agree that the bulk of the newly reported HIV/AIDS cases in Russia are attributable to IV drug users. However, IV drug users do have sex with non IV drug users and this is helping to spread the disease into the general population. In recent years, the proportion of those who got the disease via heterosexual sex is as a consequence increasing.
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Yes, I agree that the bulk of the newly reported HIV/AIDS cases in Russia are attributable to IV drug users. However, IV drug users do have sex with non IV drug users and this is helping to spread the disease into the general population. In recent years, the proportion of those who got the disease via heterosexual sex is as a consequence increasing.
I agree. Though the proportion is still very small, it is increasing. So guys, if you see track marks, put on a condom!
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None of your business, Mr. Chlamydia.
I am deeply impressed with your irrefutable and solid arguments. I think you can be trusted absolutely. What else do you know about FSU women and their sex habits, AIDS statistics, etc? I finally found the ultimate source of information I can believe and I am looking forward to each word you utter, Mr. God :) Then, if anyone wonders, I will just say: hey, GATOR said that. No more questions will follow.
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So guys, if you see track marks, put on a condom!
Given all the other STDs out there, I do believe the guys should put on a condom track marks or not. :rolleyes2:
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Given all the other STDs out there, I do believe the guys should put on a condom track marks or not. :rolleyes2:
and each partner should do complete testing before removing it....
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Yeah, whatever scientists say… Do you really want me to look up examples of stupid forecasts made by scientists that have never come true? I guess you can remember on your own… We are supposed to have been below the sea level for a few years already to name just one.
I can never understand this fascination with scientists and physicians and trusting every word they utter.
Have some common sense and don’t trust whatever they want you to believe.
How many FSU women have you, er, hacked? (With an ax or condom ;)). I am interested in the exact percentage figures :D
>>I can never understand this fascination with scientists and physicians and trusting every word they utter.
Have some common sense and don’t trust whatever they want you to believe.<<
Hmmm ... I did not see Gator fawning over the words of any "scientists and physicians." He merely recounted information he was told from someone he considered a credible source. Nothing at all wrong with that.
I further do not believe that any thinking person trusts "every word they utter."
As the same time, "scientists and physicians" are, on balance, trained to be more analytical than most other disciplines - and it is rational to expect someone who is studying a phenomenon to have more insight than the 'normal' populace. It does not make them correct all the time - but it does make them worth listening to - IMHO, of course.
>>How many FSU women have you, er, hacked? (With an ax or condom ;)). I am interested in the exact percentage figures<<
Igor, how did you move from an appeal to others to ignore "scientists and physicians" in favor of individual "common sense" - to asking a member for the number of women they have been intimate with?!? I am not seeing the connection, and the question itself is so highly personal that it reeks of intentional inflammation.
- Dan
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He merely recounted information he was told from someone he considered a credible source. Nothing at all wrong with that.
In Russian it is called OBS :) = Odna Babushka Skazala :D Ask your wife what it means… Another name is Babskoye Radio (Women’s Radio Network).
Igor, how did you move from an appeal to others to ignore "scientists and physicians" in favor of individual "common sense" - to asking a member for the number of women they have been intimate with?!? I am not seeing the connection, and the question itself is so highly personal that it reeks of intentional inflammation.
You’re not? Well, if someone states that “FSU women do not necessarily demand that the man use a condom”, I assume that they have had sex with so many women they can come up with realiable statistics. That is why I wonder how many exactly (and I believe that you should actually have sex with a woman to learn if she demands a condom, otherwise it’s OBS), to estimate the sampling according to the theory of probability.
Somehow I think that the error of estamation will be a little bit too high taking into account the total number of FSU women and their variety of sex habits. This is exactly what you mention — being analytical (and that is why I may sound a bit skeptical).
Otherwise, see above (OBS)…
As for intentional inflammation, please note calling names, that is ‘Mr. Chlamydia’ (I have no idea what it means though as I did not imply I had been having sex without a condom with a lot of FSU women).
Yet I am aware that in this board some members are ‘more equal than others’ and some things may or may not be overlooked depending on who the author is.
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In Russian it is called OBS :) = Odna Babushka Skazala :D Ask your wife what it means… Another name is Babskoye Radio (Women’s Radio Network).
No need to try to drag my wife into this Igor. It is a boorish and vile tactic.
Yet I am aware that in this board some members are ‘more equal than others’ and some things may or may not be overlooked depending on who the author is.
Look - it is no secret that I sincerely appreciate those RWD members who; (a) have a history of positively contributing to others, and (b) are concerned about RWD and our Vision. That does not mean they receive preferential treatment. It *does* mean that I have a natural reaction to seeing posts such as yours that are crude and base, and I am likely to reply.
Gator is a highly-respected contributor to RWD for many years. He is a gentle man who seeks no conflict with anyone. Because he is very intelligent and speaks of those things he believes can help others, he occasionally runs across someone, like you in this instance, who take silly offense. In those instances where someone disagrees with Gator and approaches him professionally and courteously, he invariably responds with humility and maintaining mutual dignity.
In YOUR case, however, your immediate post was to enter a mud-wrestling contest - using some of the most filthy innuendo imaginable.
Whereas I see, and know, Gator's motives for participating at RWD are to learn a little bit and share his wealth of experiences - what are YOUR motives Igor?
- Dan
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The more I learn about the US the less I wish to live there. :wallbash:
Good choice Stirlitz. We already have enough clowns here.
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My terse comment was not intended to be brusque. I will provide an explanation if you feel so entitled.
My comment had two parts:
- First, just because you are open about this subject does not mean everyone else should be or wants to be open. I personally have never felt comfortable with any sort of kiss and tell.
- Second, even though homosexuals and drug users account for the vast majority of HIV/AIDS cases, it can still be contracted by heterosexuals. Besides, there is much more to worry about than HIV. Chlamydia is the most common STD, is readily transmitted, and can have severe consequences for females. If a non-monogamous man cares about how he may affect the health of non-exclusive female partners, we would use protection.
http://www.cdc.gov/STD/chlamydia/STDFact-Chlamydia.htm
Igor, part of my response was prompted by your general questioning of all scientists, a position that I find ignorant, to be frank. However, that is your choice. While scientists can be fallible, I give them the benefit of the doubt when I have no reliable contrary evidence.
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What else do you know about FSU women and their sex habits, AIDS statistics, etc? I finally found the ultimate source of information
For more statistics on HIV/AIDS in Russia, I recommend the site http://www.hivrussia.ru. They have compiled the statistics as to HIV/AIDS transmission. The PDF can be downloaded here: http://hivrussia.ru/files/bul_30/07.pdf.
I will highlight some statistics. In the year 2000, 4.2% of registered HIV/AIDS cases were attributed to heterosexual sex and IV drug use 95.6%. In 2006, 32.3% of registered HIV/AIDS cases in that year were linked to heterosexual sex and 65.3% to IV drug use. The total number of registered cases of HIV/AIDS attributable to heterosexual sex went up from 1,729 in 2000 to 5,565 in 2006. Keep in mind that these are only the registered cases. They people who are infected and have not been diagnosed and consequently registered will be much higher.
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No need to try to drag my wife into this Igor. It is a boorish and vile tactic.
Come on… you can ask anyone else who speaks Russian and knows the culture and can explain it to you. I just thought it would be natural that one’s Russian wife was the best choice but it is up to you if you. Take it easy.
Look - it is no secret that I sincerely appreciate those RWD members who…
See :) I knew that. Blah-blah…
Whereas I see, and know, Gator's motives for participating at RWD are to learn a little bit and share his wealth of experiences - what are YOUR motives Igor?
What? You ask me? I am a COMMERCIAL MEMBER! You yourself labeled me as such. So you ought to know that they are MAKING MONEY!!! I am not sure though in which way, but I have to submit to you :)
Seriously, don’t look for motives in every move. Some people just like to talk and that’s that. (Well YOU have to know that from this board).
Edited to add: Although I seldom post, I sometimes just can’t help when I see another piece of rubbish like ‘average salary in Ukraine is $300’ or ‘most women don’t demand a condom’, etc. :wallbash:
I guess I can stop posting for the time being though. It makes no sense. 38 posts in 2008 is about enough.
Good choice Stirlitz. We already have enough clowns here.
Yeah, right, I can actually see one of them shooting birds on the left :)
And walking into my ignore list at the same time.
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Come on… you can ask anyone else who speaks Russian and knows the culture and can explain it to you. I just thought it would be natural that one’s Russian wife was the best choice but it is up to you if you. Take it easy.
See :) I knew that. Blah-blah…
What? You ask me? I am a COMMERCIAL MEMBER! You yourself labeled me as such. So you ought to know that they are MAKING MONEY!!! I am not sure though in which way, but I have to submit to you :)
Seriously, don’t look for motives in every move. Some people just like to talk and that’s that. (Well YOU have to know that from this board).
Edited to add: Although I seldom post, I sometimes just can’t help when I see another piece of rubbish like ‘average salary in Ukraine is $300’ or ‘most women don’t demand a condom’, etc. :wallbash:
Yeah, right, I can actually see one of them shooting birds on the left :)
And walking into my ignore list at the same time.
>>Come on… you can ask anyone else who speaks Russian and knows the culture and can explain it to you. I just thought it would be natural that one’s Russian wife was the best choice but it is up to you if you.<<
So let's play things back.
You post something you think I may not be able to understand, and tell me to; "Ask your wife what it means."
You could have, if you were sincerely interested in a meaningful exchange of information and ideas, simply told me what it was you thought I needed to understand. We might have then been able to conduct a professional and courteous exchange - but you didn't.
In the very best scenario, you were being disingenuous and condescending.
Re: Commercial Member. Yes, I tagged your profile, and numerous others, with an indication that you are here as a Commercial Member. It was, and remains, a simple fact. There is no disparagement intended - just wanted everyone to know when there are Commercial Members here, and they can draw their own conclusions as to motivations.
Re: "Rubbish". Igor, one of the great services a member like you can add to RWD is to correct the myths or the news reports from your rather unique perspective. You are 'on-the-ground' in Ukraine and you are a Ukrainian citizen. I think we largely appreciate those occasions when you help us to have another perspective - and one that is not so influenced by western media and culture.
- Dan
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Igor, you just now wrote:
I sometimes just can’t help when I see another piece of rubbish like ‘average salary in Ukraine is $300’ or ‘most women don’t demand a condom’, etc. :wallbash:
In comparison, my specific words which you call rubbish were:
FSU women do not necessarily demand that the man use a condom.
Maybe you are a quick reader and my exact words did not reach your eyes. Maybe you are quick to assume more than there.
Seriously, don’t look for motives in every move. Some people just like to talk and that’s that.
Splendid! Please do. You almost always have something interesting to say. However, please do not put words in my mouth.
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I guess I can stop posting for the time being though. It makes no sense. 38 posts in 2008 is about enough.
Actually igor, about 37 posts too many.
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Jack, you are supposed to put a smiley after that. Otherwise Igor might think you are serious. :ROFL:
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Jack, you are supposed to put a smiley after that. Otherwise Igor might think you are serious.
ooopps, yea, maybe your right turbo.
I guess I can stop posting for the time being though. It makes no sense. 38 posts in 2008 is about enough.
Actually igor, about 37 posts too many. :ROFL:
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BF
Are you saying that most RW mothers are a bit (?) controlling when it comes to children? Makes me ponder upon my own situation/relationship with a woman who has a son of similiar age.
Scott
I understand that most boys in their teenage years will be in the experimentation or later stages when it comes to sex, but..... a mother buying condoms? :o She cannot just tell her son to go and puchase them himself?
Young men are not skilled at thinking when they have a naked girl with them.
Girls are better, but only marginally so. Having an condom handy when needed
is far better than not having one.
In my opinion, the mother is not in such a hurry to become a grandmother.
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In many countries, if the male child is not having sex with females by age X, then some parents and most relatives start wondering about his sexual orientation.
I don't think there is the same concern about female children.
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In many countries, if the male child is not having sex with females by age X, then some parents and most relatives start wondering about his sexual orientation.
I don't think there is the same concern about female children.
That used to be the case when it was easy(ier) to get sex and the women wanted to do it with guys in the West with a similar sense of eagerness as the guys. That was decades ago now and Western Women are way more uptight now and difficult about it. Many Western Women are choosey enough about dating never mind sex and will only date a guy who they think is suitable enough. Here Western Women now value their vagina as golden rather than an enjoyable sex toy to get used for thrills. Western Women really do have an all too serious po faced view on sex and relationships these days. You can still get a few Western Women that are giers out there but they are usually knocking around with the 'bad boys' and won't look at anyone else. Most Western Women are brought up with University in mind, in a Feminist mindset and lack any joyousness whatsoever. Many Western Women aren't serious about dating, if you get a single WW along to speed dating event with lots of other single guys she would almost certainly walk out single again at the end of that speed dating night event.
A lot of Western Women have grown up being socialised to be obsessed about careers not getting a life. It takes a lot to turn such a career girl around in terms of mindset. So up against all of that it's not so surprising that a lot of Western Men just can't get it. Some Western Men may not even want it these days, they grow up sexless with the Xbox. They get into their twenties and thirties, some meet women that are just mental, some don't meet women at all. Many many just come to decide that they don't want the burden and responsibility of having children and would rather just enjoy free time with their mates and available entertainment and chill out and relax with a big of booze, Netflix, etc, video games, etc.
Some possibly may just use girls from sites such as Fans Only and Escort sites for sex although apparently often the women on Fans Only are low quality women wanting to make bank. A couple of my relatives fell into the category you state ML, one I think we ended up finding out was actually gay after many years of speculation. The other was using Escort services and lacked the social skills and possibly the looks to get a girl easily. Both were derided by relatives and questions asked of other relatives why they hadn't got a woman behind their backs of course. God knows what they might say about me, I don't really care a lot, you don't as you get older. I have always been interested and shown interest in women but getting one in this day and age ain't easy, not in the West. Many women have a high and mighty image of themselves in the West viewing many guys as not suitable even though they ain't almost that. Others are fatties or mega fatties who think some thin dude should thank the lucky stars they are interested in him and fail to pick up on the look of disinterest and/or revulsion on his face. I think in general now there is a kind of Xbox culture among guys who just like to get with the entertainment in their spare time and let that all pass them by.