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Author Topic: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?  (Read 18173 times)

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Offline whynotme

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Dark Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2016, 10:13:01 PM »
This tells me you do not understand what the Soviet system was.  Nothing wrong with that, you could not, as a Westerner who didn't live in a dictatorship.

There was no such thing as a percentage of informants.  To inform on others was something viewed as honourable and normal. 


Очередной бред.  ::)
 
It never viewed as honorable among normal people. Nobody will give a hand to stukach (informant). Well, each man creates his own encirclement. I can trust my friends and know that definitely no informers among them, but I may say that about Americans because faced that at my work at college. They will smile to you and never say any negative but will complain to your boss  :D. Well, they avoid confrontation even in small things when it's possible just to explain face to face. From Russian point of view they are informants. In fact, it is the difference in mentality.

Offline alex330

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Dark Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2016, 05:01:59 AM »
They will smile to you and never say any negative but will complain to your boss  :D . Well, they avoid confrontation even in small things when it's possible just to explain face to face. From Russian point of view they are informants. In fact, it is the difference in mentality.


The fake smile or attempt to hide behind one is a very American thing. My wife and other foreigners mention it as well.


Being blunt can vary depending on the location within the US and the person.  On the East Coast, let's say NYC or Miami people have no problem telling you what they think to your face. Midwest or West Coast probably a bit more PC. But generally we are not as direct as Eastern Europeans.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2016, 12:23:35 PM »
Quote
But generally we are not as direct as Eastern Europeans.


Not all Eastern Europeans are direct.  Further, this is a result of Soviet proletarian culture.  None of the Ukrainians I know who were raised in Ukraine were like this.  Most grew up in a pre Soviet Ukrainian culture, or were young teens when the Soviets invaded.  A number of people I knew grew up in Stalinist Russia, but still had the manners and mores of their parents.  They all had what we would consider "old world" manners.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline tfcrew

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2016, 05:41:01 PM »

     

 ....Hillary as the next best thing to a pure socialist.

I could call Hilly a few things but "best" and "pure" wouldn't be any of them.
~There is no one more blind than those who refuse to see and none more deaf as those who will not listen~
~Think about the intelligence of the average person and then realize that half of the people are even more stupid than that~

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2016, 06:19:46 PM »
     
I could call Hilly a few things but "best" and "pure" wouldn't be any of them.

Nor would "socialist."

Offline Gator

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2016, 12:24:32 PM »
Over the past week I have discussed the subject with two 50-something RW who visited my wife.

Their opinion is a police state mentality probably existed in the 1950s but has steadily declined since then.   In the 1970s when these RW were old enough to be aware of the general sentiment, they saw nothing.  Over time, the police became only interested in receiving bribes.  If they received a tip from an informant, they would have to investigate it, which would reduce time available for collecting bribes. 

They talked about the general sentiment of RW who immigrated to America, and they felt these women would be the last women to inform on others.   Making scandalous comments, yes.  Informing, no. 

Offline Boethius

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2016, 12:53:02 PM »
They just weren't targets, Gator.  They came from "good proletarian" families.

My cousin, a target in the 1970's, would tell you that their assessment was inaccurate.  He was from a village, his mother was a peasant, but he was hunted like an animal.  He was quite brilliant, but all avenues of education, but for night school, were closed to him.

Almost all of my husband's experiences with Soviet authorities, and those of his family, were in the 1970's and 1980's.  He still will not say certain things, because he says those who informed on him, who tormented him, and the former KGB are all "alive and well". 

I was friends with the son of a famous dissident after I'd returned home.  His stories, from the late 1970's to the mid 1980's until he was allowed to emigrate, were hair raising.

Things were pretty grim in the early 1980's, as well.

As someone who lived there in the 1980's, I would say that the police state mentality still existed.  Was it as bad as in the 1930's or 1940's?  No. 

Informants usually informed to party officials or the KGB, not police officers on the street.  The police had informants among criminals, but less than 1% of that information was truthful. 

LOL.  Yes, everyone who emigrated and who is now interacting with Americans would never have been an informant.  It is so ludicrous I actually did LOL.  The fact is that you cannot know.  What will tell you, partly, is their education.  The more educated, the more likely they informed on classmates.

Every foreigner, and especially Westerners, studying in the USSR were under a microscope.  I can't tell you the number of informants I was surrounded by.   I remember travelling home one winter.  I was seated with another Canadian on the plane, who was peppering me with questions about my experiences.  Every question he asked raised the reaction in me of "Why is he asking this?"  It is amazing how soon, living in a totalitarian state,  your mind beings to work this way.  It would take a few weeks to get out of that mentality.


ETA - The first two things my husband loved about the West:


1.  The politeness of drivers, who stopped for pedestrians; and
2.  The openness of Westerners - "What' in their minds is on their tongues." 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 10:44:06 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Gator

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2016, 04:03:03 PM »
They just weren't targets, Gator.  They came from "good proletarian" families.

Although not targets, it seems you claim they were a typical informer.  You mentioned that  "...the wives of some [ed. RWD] members here....were very much a part of that system."

Contrary to your claim,  each of the Soviet era women I discussed this with says they knew of no informing when they were young adults in the 1980s.  There aren't that many RWD wives older than 50, so I am at a loss about who all these RWD wives were that informed on people like your cousin and your husband. 

My wife has shared with me some deep secrets that make "informing" look mild, so I am ruling her out.  The other two may be untruthful, yet my wife vouches for them, having known them for years here. 

I am not denying that you encountered informants.  I question the frequency that it happened in the 1980s.  Jeffrey (Hiii98) had an alien encounter, so anything is possible.    And an AW girlfriend and I saw a UFO in Jamaica (a large, slow, zig zagging shooting star).  :D

Offline Boethius

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2016, 06:45:07 PM »
No, I used informants as an example.  It is more about a mentality, statements that support that mentality because it is politically useful, even when hurtful to others, and how those views can turn on a dime.


Anyone born before 1983 was still part of the Soviet system at some point.  Even those born after continue to have some of these mentalities.  I've seen it, and it surprised me.  I thought it would be long gone by now.



After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline calmissile

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2016, 08:00:26 PM »
 I am not interested in getting in the midst of this argument.  I wish Larissa was more fluent and could write what she knows first hand as well as what her mother has conveyed to her.

When I asked her at what approximate year the public quit turning each other into the KGB for political favors.  She answered that she thought it was about 1947.

My former neighbor is probably in her 80's and told me stories about exactly what Boe is talking about.  I think I made a post about it several years ago.  She said that people were afraid to say anthing to each other because they would turn each other into the KGB or whatever it was called at the time.  She also indicated that they were afraid to go to church because it was also infiltrated with spies to report any citizen not towing the party line.

With my wife being 43, it is clear that she never experienced any of this first hand so I have a hard time believing that there are many RWD wives that are old enough to have witnessed what is being described.  Larissa did indicate that her mother lived through it and she was born in 1938.

I suppose Larissa could post in Russian, but then I would not be able proof read it.    ;D
Doug (Calmissile)

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2016, 08:32:30 PM »
Privet Tovasische!

kanyeshna!  It is a well known scientific fact* that you can take the Russian out of Russia, but you cannot take Russia out of the Russian!

what is the definition of “Soviet Mentality” moy druzya?

1. Lack of initiative and avoidance of taking any individual responsibility for anything
2. Obedience to or passive acceptance of everything that government imposes on them
3. “vatnick” mentality

The vatnik is utterly unconcerned with the fact that thousands of Russian children in the country’s dilapidated orphanage system are subject to physical and sexual abuse. His concern is that those children might be adopted by citizens of countries which allow same-sex marriage. He doesn’t care if children as young as 9 and 10 smoke in the park, drink alcoholic beverages, or watch their father and mother drunkenly fight at 1 AM, but he’s terribly concerned about the dangers of “gay propaganda.”

The vatnik is happy to tell you about his deep regard for the Russian Orthodox faith and its traditions in spite of never going to church. He believes Putin is defending Russia’s Christian traditions from the degenerate West, even as he sees young women emerging from discotheque on the arms of shady businessmen, twenty to thirty years their senior and with wives and children at home. He considers Russia a bastion of morality in spite of the fact that men stand outside metro exits handing out catalogs of prostitutes.

He can never shut up about how Russia’s grandfathers fought and singlehandedly won the Second World War, yet he harbors a soft spot for Nazi Germany and fascism out of his unflagging admiration for strong, authoritarian leaders. To the vatnik, the only bad side of Nazi Germany and fascism in general is that they attacked the Soviet Union, beyond that the vatnik has no qualms about racism, anti-Semitism, or authoritarianism.

He cannot possibly imagine a powerful, prosperous Russia based on strict rule of law, democratic institutions, and a wise policy of using state resources to benefit the people at large and spur on private innovation. For the vatnik, Russia can only be great by either dominating other countries, or by instilling fear in them. This is why the vatnik is almost orgasmic at the thought of Americans or Europeans living in fear of nuclear war with Russia.

The vatnik would rather live in filth and muck and believe that Americans are worried about what Russia might do than to live in prosperity and freedom while enjoying friendly and mutually-beneficial  relations with Russia. No, that is surrender. That is bending over for Uncle Sam in the prison cell. Better to bend over for Putin instead.  This is how the vatnik sees the world, and the sad irony is that what he sees as stoic defiance is in fact the most submissive act of all.

This is the Soviet mentality in 2016! 

Hello Fancy Bear!



 

* as documented by Prof/Dr. Filip Filippovich Preobrazhensky

Offline Boethius

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2016, 09:22:07 PM »
I am not interested in getting in the midst of this argument.  I wish Larissa was more fluent and could write what she knows first hand as well as what her mother has conveyed to her.

When I asked her at what approximate year the public quit turning each other into the KGB for political favors.  She answered that she thought it was about 1947.

My former neighbor is probably in her 80's and told me stories about exactly what Boe is talking about.  I think I made a post about it several years ago.  She said that people were afraid to say anthing to each other because they would turn each other into the KGB or whatever it was called at the time.  She also indicated that they were afraid to go to church because it was also infiltrated with spies to report any citizen not towing the party line.

With my wife being 43, it is clear that she never experienced any of this first hand so I have a hard time believing that there are many RWD wives that are old enough to have witnessed what is being described.  Larissa did indicate that her mother lived through it and she was born in 1938.

I suppose Larissa could post in Russian, but then I would not be able proof read it.    ;D

I had posted a long post with personal experiences, and was timed out.  So, I suppose it was not meant to be. 

There were, in fact, informants in the 1970's and 1980's, because my husband was surrounded by them.  Many of them went on to become KGB officers, and still work in official government capacities today.

Show trials in Ukraine were held in 1974, after Shelest was removed.  All those arrested had informants within their groups.  Dissidents were put on trial up to the 1980's, and in each of their cases, the basis of most evidence against them for "anti Soviet propaganda" was the word of informants.  Same with the Helsinki Group.  Arrests for the Russian members started earlier, with the last one sentenced in April 1982.  Members of the Ukrainian Helsinki Group were jailed even after that.  Now, I have focused on dissidents because you can look them up.  But this was not something that did not exist previously.  The difference between the 1970's and beyond and Stalin's time, when most everyone, out of fear, reported to the NKVD, was that later, that pervasive fear no longer existed.

My friend, whose father was a famous dissident, and his mother were surrounded by informants until the late 1980's, when they were finally allowed to leave the USSR.  His stories were mind boggling, things most people would have trouble believing unless they understood the Soviet system.

Years ago, probably about 2004, or so, I read an article in lenta.ru written by a former KGB officer.  He was  assigned to Leningrad State University, and monitored students.  His job was to cultivate informants, and keep tabs on what the students were doing/saying.  He said that he became disillusioned with his job when "the informants began informing on informants".  The article was about how academia operated in the FSU, from his perspective as a minder, and that he knew the end was near because of this.  That was the sentence that always stuck with me.



ETA re churches - My husband was never a komsomol or party member, so he had no fear of attending church.  He went regularly (4 or 5 times a week), and always went for holidays.  If you asked him, he would tell you that the kind little smiling babas  you saw in the church were all retired party members, usually teachers/professors, there to keep an eye on who was coming in and going out.  They were moved from church to church, and all would report on activities within the church.  One time, one did not like something he did, but because he had no fear of issues with his job/party membership, he told her he wasn't in her house, he wasn't there to visit her, so she had no right to tell him how to behave.


Up until about 1980, if you attended the midnight Easter Service at St. Vladimir's in Kyiv, you would be questioned on whether or not you were a komsomol member.  Because party members were to eschew religion.  In each of those years, buses were arranged, and everyone in the church was forced on the bus and driven 20 km out of the city, and told "God" would help them get back.  Remember, at that time, there were no buses in the night.  My husband said it didn't bother him, although you couldn't see anything, as you were out in the middle of nowhere.  But he said for the elderly, it was tough, plus, it was still chilly in the evening.  He started going to an earlier service after 1981, so he doesn't know if that still occurred, but it was the standard from the 1970's to 1981.


Priests were not informants.  However, when Stalin reopened the churches and released priests from gulags in 1941, the Politburo decided on a new policy vis a vis the church.  They decided to treat it as Henry VIII treated the Church of England - the Central Committee would approve the appointment of all priests.  Priests did not know they were approved by the Central Committee, although the church hierarchy did, as they presented the lists.  But they never knew why someone was accepted or rejected.


Anyone working in a church, in any capacity, had to be approved by the KGB.   


The reason the Greek Catholic Church was banned in Western Ukraine was because the Soviets could not control it the same way they controlled the Orthodox Church - priests and the hierarchy were appointed in Rome, and Rome refused to bend to Moscow's demands.





« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 10:05:50 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline whynotme

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2016, 09:48:15 PM »
Although not targets, it seems you claim they were a typical informer.  You mentioned that  "...the wives of some [ed. RWD] members here....were very much a part of that system."

Contrary to your claim,  each of the Soviet era women I discussed this with says they knew of no informing when they were young adults in the 1980s.  There aren't that many RWD wives older than 50, so I am at a loss about who all these RWD wives were that informed on people like your cousin and your husband. 

My wife has shared with me some deep secrets that make "informing" look mild, so I am ruling her out.  The other two may be untruthful, yet my wife vouches for them, having known them for years here. 

I am not denying that you encountered informants.  I question the frequency that it happened in the 1980s.  Jeffrey (Hiii98) had an alien encounter, so anything is possible.    And an AW girlfriend and I saw a UFO in Jamaica (a large, slow, zig zagging shooting star).  :D

I can find many similarities between some posts in this thread and things I heard from one woman who lived upstairs me at Kamchatka. Once she asked not to let KGB officers to install their spying equipment in my apartments. Then she brought ten cats, and said they helped her to communicate with aliens. She locked herself in her apartments, and after couple weeks we decided to call police to rescue poor hungry animals.  :D Later the woman was watched really. In mental clinic.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2016, 10:18:17 PM »
LOL.  So says the komsomol member.  But I never posted that everyone was an informant.

I do know that the apartment I was living in was monitored. 

At one point, I had to go to Moscow to get my papers for marriage.  My not yet then husband was called in to KGB headquarters for questioning.  We had not put two and two together before - whenever we left the apartment together, if we flagged a car, it was no more than 10 seconds, which is unusual, and the drivers always refused payment, but we assumed it was from being watched, rather than listened to.  It was only after his questioning, the content of which he has never told me about, that he knew the apartment was bugged.  The only thing he ever told me from that questioning was that they told him "the guy who has played an idiot to us for 10 years is not one".

We never figured out how they managed to bug the apartment until I met the dissident's son.  He told me exactly how.  These days, it would be far more sophisticated and easier.  However, nothing we ever said was particularly interesting to them. 

The only bad news is, that once we married, we apparently were no longer as interesting to them, at least, not in the same way.  We went back to having to wait in the cold to flag down a car or cab.  When it was very cold, we used to hearken back to those easier days.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 10:45:13 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2016, 10:54:47 PM »
Just to get back to informants - of course those that did, in fact, inform on neighbours/coworkers/classmates are not going to admit it.  The archives are sealed, and they would not admit what they did.

When the former DDR released their archives, the level of informing was shocking to people. There were stories of wives reporting on husbands and vice versa.  It was so shocking, in fact, that they eventually resealed some of the archives.  I remember watching a film in which a man who had been informed on went to confront the person who informed on him.  As he confronted him, a crowd gathered.  They berated the man, telling him it was "normal" in that period, he should have no issues with it, etc.  That was the general attitude, and it was no different in the USSR.

Here is a link to how pervasive informants were in the DDR.  These are from official records, so whynotme cannot claim they are from my fevered imagination/psychotic break with reality.  It was as bad, or worse, in the USSR.  In the USSR, those records have been sealed, and will not be released until anyone alive is dead.  Or perhaps, never.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/east-german-domestic-surveillance-went-far-beyond-the-stasi-a-1042883.html
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline ML

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2016, 09:22:52 AM »
The vatnik is utterly unconcerned with the fact that thousands of Russian children in the country’s dilapidated orphanage system are subject to physical and sexual abuse. His concern is that those children might be adopted by citizens of countries which allow same-sex marriage. He doesn’t care if children as young as 9 and 10 smoke in the park, drink alcoholic beverages, or watch their father and mother drunkenly fight at 1 AM, but he’s terribly concerned about the dangers of “gay propaganda.”

The vatnik is happy to tell you about his deep regard for the Russian Orthodox faith and its traditions in spite of never going to church. He believes Putin is defending Russia’s Christian traditions from the degenerate West, even as he sees young women emerging from discotheque on the arms of shady businessmen, twenty to thirty years their senior and with wives and children at home. He considers Russia a bastion of morality in spite of the fact that men stand outside metro exits handing out catalogs of prostitutes.

He can never shut up about how Russia’s grandfathers fought and singlehandedly won the Second World War, yet he harbors a soft spot for Nazi Germany and fascism out of his unflagging admiration for strong, authoritarian leaders. To the vatnik, the only bad side of Nazi Germany and fascism in general is that they attacked the Soviet Union, beyond that the vatnik has no qualms about racism, anti-Semitism, or authoritarianism.

He cannot possibly imagine a powerful, prosperous Russia based on strict rule of law, democratic institutions, and a wise policy of using state resources to benefit the people at large and spur on private innovation. For the vatnik, Russia can only be great by either dominating other countries, or by instilling fear in them. This is why the vatnik is almost orgasmic at the thought of Americans or Europeans living in fear of nuclear war with Russia.

The vatnik would rather live in filth and muck and believe that Americans are worried about what Russia might do than to live in prosperity and freedom while enjoying friendly and mutually-beneficial  relations with Russia. No, that is surrender. That is bending over for Uncle Sam in the prison cell. Better to bend over for Putin instead.  This is how the vatnik sees the world, and the sad irony is that what he sees as stoic defiance is in fact the most submissive act of all.

This is the Soviet mentality in 2016! 
* as documented by Prof/Dr. Filip Filippovich Preobrazhensky

Wow, quite a litany Krimster.  Thanks for the listing.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2016, 10:04:35 AM »
and unfortunately, all of my wife's family fit the vatnick profile.  The people who don't fit this profile, unfortunately have no real option but to leave Russia.  In a few hours my wife an I will have a house full of them as guests (Russian emigree), may the vodka flow freely!

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2016, 08:34:41 AM »

what is the definition of “Soviet Mentality” moy druzya?

1. Lack of initiative and avoidance of taking any individual responsibility for anything
2. Obedience to or passive acceptance of everything that government imposes on them
3. “vatnick” mentality


Thanks Krimster!  It is interesting to compare the three criteria with two Soviet-era RW I know, my 51-yo wife and her 54-yo sister. 

All three criteria apply to the sister.  None apply to my wife although one might give her partial credit considering her tendency to accept Russian news, albeit with some skepticism.  On a positive note, she always expressed empathy for Ukrainian citizens during the ongoing conflict.
 
The sister never took initiative in life.  When young, She  turned down an important management position with a construction business and kept her less demanding, less risky job.  She did okay, retiring as warden of a large women's prison (murderers, drug dealers, etc.), a job that sadly suits her stoic, rigid, pessimistic personality IMO.  Today she will still ask for money from her pensioner parents, whom my wife helps.  She is not a fan of America, believing my wife made a mistake.

In contrast, my wife seized every opportunity to experience life.  She wanted to leave home at age 14 when the national ballet school selected her.  Disappointed when her parents said "nyet," at 18 she pursued professional sports rather than university studies.  She next started a long career in runway modeling that took her to Europe in Soviet days. 

My wife has always worked hard, saying her sister is lazy (even lazier than me  :D).  You mentioned accepting responsibility - wifey never places responsibility on anyone else (other than me   :D).   

Both women had the same parents, were raised in the same flat (same bedroom), went to the same schools, etc.   I suppose the difference is genetics,  as the genetic pool is large. 

Now the question  - did the sister inform on people?  My wife doubts it.   

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2016, 08:54:39 AM »
and unfortunately, all of my wife's family fit the vatnick profile.  The people who don't fit this profile, unfortunately have no real option but to leave Russia.

That says something.  The Russian immigrants I meet  are mostly driven to achieve some sort of success.  They have a strong work ethic.  They study. 

One told me she had the "courage" to come to America, having only $100 in her pocket as a tourist 19 years ago. 


Quote
In a few hours my wife an I will have a house full of them as guests (Russian emigree), may the vodka flow freely!

How interesting.  Although alcohol is a depressant, or you saying it acts to medicate the symptoms of vatnik neurological condition, a form of depression.    Or maybe it medicates only you, raising your immunity to vatnik statements.   :D

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2016, 10:06:08 AM »
Just to get back to informants - of course those that did, in fact, inform on neighbours/coworkers/classmates are not going to admit it.  The archives are sealed, and they would not admit what they did.

When the former DDR released their archives, the level of informing was shocking to people. There were stories of wives reporting on husbands and vice versa.  ....Here is a link to how pervasive informants were in the DDR.  These are from official records, so whynotme cannot claim they are from my fevered imagination/psychotic break with reality.  It was as bad, or worse, in the USSR.  In the USSR, those records have been sealed, and will not be released until anyone alive is dead.  Or perhaps, never.


The records could be sealed to protect some people.  However, the records could be sealed for another reason, namely it was not true. 

Think about this, the Soviet internal security police wanted the people to fear they were being watched by everyone, even their own family.  Such an environment would act to deter any form of rebellion. 

Thus, the communist police publicized cases of rebellious activity,  even wrongfully convicting people.  The communists used propaganda to support this strategy, falsifying examples reported in the news.  One such example is Pavlik Morozov, a young boy glorified for years and years by the communists for informing on his father.  The father was later executed, and the boy killed by his own family.  The story has now been debunked as Stalinism propaganda. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov

http://www.britannica.com/biography/Pavlik-Morozov


The records if released would likely show more fabricated cases such as Pavlik Morozov.     

As the Soviets liberalized away from Stalinism, this practice  declined, yet some old habits are hard to die. When visiting my Dutch embassy friends in Moscow in 1986, they remarked how several times they returned to their expensive flat only to find lights on, table decorations moved, toilet not flushed, etc.   The goal seem to be, "we want you to know we are watching."  If the Soviet police actually suspected my friends of something, they would have made their surveillance programs undetectable.

My position is in such an environment, one is likely to believe there is more informing, more internal security police, more of everything than what actually occurred.   And as whynotme explained, much of what is called "informing" is of no significance. 

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Dark Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2016, 10:17:17 AM »

It never viewed as honorable among normal people.

That is my sentiment.  For sure informing happened, but to the degree to deprecate RWD wives?   

Boethius, you posted elsewhere,  "I have never posted that women who married members of the forum are all informers."   That's correct.  You used the term "some"  (see quotes in first post of this thread).

I would be interested to know your opinion about what percentage of RWD wives born before 1983 would fall in the basket of "some." 





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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Dark Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2016, 10:42:56 AM »
Очередной бред.  ::)
 
It never viewed as honorable among normal people. Nobody will give a hand to stukach (informant).

It's not just Russia either, it's human nature. There were Frenchmen and women who
collaborated with the Germans. They were looked upon with Disgust. There have always
been informers/collaborators and normal people have always looked upon them with
revulsion.



I can trust my friends and know that definitely no informers among them, but I may say that about Americans because faced that at my work at college. They will smile to you and never say any negative but will complain to your boss  :D. Well, they avoid confrontation even in small things when it's possible just to explain face to face. From Russian point of view they are informants. In fact, it is the difference in mentality.

Those type of people tend to collect at Colleges. They aspire to have jobs where it's
nearly impossible to get fired, then complain about everything and everyone especially
their lack of pay and how hard they work.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2016, 10:50:09 AM »
Nor would "socialist."

The lefty's are lefty's, just because others are further lefties doesn't make Hillary
normal or a centrist. She would love to be as lefty as your brand of lefties but knows
she would lose the election in a landslide, so instead she pretends to be somewhat
centrist when she isn't.

She would love to be in power in a Soviet type system where nobody could point
out her hypocrisy, lies, corruption or failures without going to jail. She would thrive
in a system like that. She has been an absolute failure in anything she tried to do in
the USA government. She failed so many times few here can point at one thing she
did that was a success.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2016, 10:57:27 AM »
The records could be sealed to protect some people.  However, the records could be sealed for another reason, namely it was not true. 

Nope. 

Yeltsin was going to unseal the records.  Yakovlev persuaded him not to do so, stating it would lead to civil war.  This was reported in Russian papers at the time, and in the memoirs of someone in Yeltsin's circle.

Yakovlev had control of the fate of Soviet archives, and what information was released.  I remember the reports on sealing archives, because my husband said that allowing Yakovlev to determine that fate of Soviet archives was like putting Goebbels in charge of Nazi archives. 

Read the Der Spiegel link I provided.  It was as bad, if not worse, in the USSR.  The DDR system was based on the Soviet system.

The Poles also resealed their archives on infomrants, after they'd been open for two months.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 01:08:48 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: Do FSUW Harbor a Soviet Mentality?
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2016, 06:12:03 PM »
The lefty's are lefty's, just because others are further lefties doesn't make Hillary normal or a centrist. She would love to be as lefty as your brand of lefties but knows she would lose the election in a landslide, so instead she pretends to be somewhat centrist when she isn't.

And just because you think Hillary is not "a centrist" doesn't make it so.  Hillary isn't even close to being a socialist by any accepted definition of the term.  Even our Prime Minister is more of a socialist than Hillary, and he's basically a moderately right-wing conservative.

 

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