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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 1075662 times)

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Offline JayH

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #525 on: November 21, 2014, 02:51:36 AM »
В России доллар опустился ниже 46 рублей
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html


ECONOMICS / FINANCE
In Russia, the dollar fell below 46 rubles 21.11.2014 | 10:40

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.
ru.wikipedia.org
Ruble began to go up on Thursday / ru.wikipedia.org
The dollar exchange rate against the ruble on the Moscow Stock Exchange as of 10:10 MSK on Friday fell 20 cents compared to the previous day's close and reached 45.95 rubles., reports Tass.

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.

Thus the cost of currency basket consisting of 0.45 euros and 0.55 dollars, decreased by 21 kopecks to 51.22 rubles.

MICEX Index (MICEX) at the opening of trading on the Moscow Stock Exchange on Friday rose 0.1% to reach 1,531.48 points.

Ruble began to go up on Thursday, supported attempts oil prices adjusted upwards, the lack of negative side of geopolitics, and tax payments and fears of intervention by the CBR.
Read more on the UNIAN: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

 ;D

Russia's international reserves for the week decreased by $ 800 million
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011885-mejdunarodnyie-rezervyi-rossii-za-nedelyu-sokratilis-esche-na-800-mln.html
http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011885-mejdunarodnyie-rezervyi-rossii-za-nedelyu-sokratilis-esche-na-800-mln.html

Capital outflows from Russia reached maximum values ​​- this month took $ 28 billion
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011970-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-dostig-maksimalnyih-znacheniy-za-mesyats-ushlo-28-mlrd.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011970-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-dostig-maksimalnyih-znacheniy-za-mesyats-ushlo-28-mlrd.html
Net capital outflow from Russia in 2014 could reach $ 130 billion
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1010309-chistyiy-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-v-2014-godu-mojet-dostich-130-mlrd.html
http://economics.unian.net/finance/1010309-chistyiy-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-v-2014-godu-mojet-dostich-130-mlrd.html
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 02:56:02 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #526 on: November 21, 2014, 11:12:11 AM »
It sucks to be them..  :cluebat:

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #527 on: November 21, 2014, 12:01:00 PM »
The Brits are flexing some military muscle now...

British army in Nato Black Eagle exercise

..." The British army is taking part in its largest armoured deployment to Eastern Europe in six years, in a show of support, the Ministry of Defence says.

More than 1,000 military personnel and 100 armoured vehicles have joined Nato's Black Eagle exercise in Poland.

The MoD said it showed the British army's ability to deploy "at short notice anywhere in the world" in support of its allies.

The exercise comes amid tensions with Russia over its actions in Ukraine.

The British army's "lead armoured battle group" of 1,350 troops and 100 armoured vehicles from the 3rd UK Division are taking part - making it the UK's largest commitment to the region since 2008."...

..."It's been almost a decade since British tanks were last seen rolling across the plains of Eastern Europe.

In northern Poland they have been back in force in a scene reminiscent of the Cold War era.

This is the furthest east in Europe British tanks have been.

And it's a direct response to the actions of a near neighbour - Russia's intervention in Crimea and eastern Ukraine."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30142764

Brass
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Offline AC

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« Reply #528 on: November 21, 2014, 12:10:08 PM »
The Brits are flexing some military muscle now...

British army in Nato Black Eagle exercise

..." The British army is taking part in its largest armoured deployment to Eastern Europe in six years, in a show of support, the Ministry of Defence says.

More than 1,000 military personnel and 100 armoured vehicles have joined Nato's Black Eagle exercise in Poland.

The MoD said it showed the British army's ability to deploy "at short notice anywhere in the world" in support of its allies.

The exercise comes amid tensions with Russia over its actions in Ukraine.

The British army's "lead armoured battle group" of 1,350 troops and 100 armoured vehicles from the 3rd UK Division are taking part - making it the UK's largest commitment to the region since 2008."...

..."It's been almost a decade since British tanks were last seen rolling across the plains of Eastern Europe.

In northern Poland they have been back in force in a scene reminiscent of the Cold War era.

This is the furthest east in Europe British tanks have been.

And it's a direct response to the actions of a near neighbour - Russia's intervention in Crimea and eastern Ukraine."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30142764

Brass

Nice to see the UK finally flexing their muscles again in the area.  Let's hope that if Putler tries to get his land-bridge that they actually fulfill their obligations of the Budapest Memorandum and send those tanks into Ukraine.

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #529 on: November 21, 2014, 12:18:11 PM »
Nice to see the UK finally flexing their muscles again in the area.  Let's hope that if Putler tries to get his land-bridge that they ( and the other signers ) actually fulfill their obligations of the Budapest Memorandum and send those tanks into Ukraine.


FITY!  :D

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #530 on: November 21, 2014, 12:27:19 PM »
Yep, I agree with both sentiments.

Brass
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

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« Reply #531 on: November 21, 2014, 12:47:13 PM »

FITY!  :D

Mike,
I'm going to assume you meant FTFY (fixed that for you) and while I wholeheartedly agree, without a strong POTUS I am very happy to see the UK over there right now, ready to be injected into Ukraine if need be.  As well I'm very happy to see Canada involved with providing Ukraine needed ambulance trucks and other supplies. 

I see a parallel back to WWII when Hitler invaded Poland and it was the British back then that stood up to him and slowly got the rest of the World to support those efforts.

I wonder if the timing of Biden being over there has anything to do with Ukraine now making steps to become part of NATO?  Either way that's a good move, but hats off to the British for having real tanks and elite troops nearby.  I hope the message is not lost on Putin.

Offline calmissile

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« Reply #532 on: November 21, 2014, 01:27:46 PM »
Hopefully the US will supply Ukraine with military hardware after the new Congress meets in January.  Based on Obama's latest stunt with immigration I'm not sure how Congress will be able to pull it off, but here's hoping and dreaming.
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #533 on: November 21, 2014, 01:31:32 PM »
We're all on the same page guys!  :clapping:

Offline Gator

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« Reply #534 on: November 21, 2014, 02:34:14 PM »
We're all on the same page guys!  :clapping:

Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #535 on: November 21, 2014, 02:45:58 PM »
I seriously doubt that there would be very much transition time to adapt to other styles of weapons. The US wouldn't just toss them off the plane and leave. There would be training if it's already not underway now. Don't forget that UA has already helped with NATO projects.

ISIL ebola makes the headlines, but there's been 5K deaths from ebola. Over 4K deaths from this invasion so far. ISIL? They've shown some PR heavy beheadings and mass hysteria, but fewer deaths than the other headline problems.
 Russia has a serious potential to spread over Europe as well as worldwide if their threat of nukes ever comes about.

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #536 on: November 21, 2014, 03:25:17 PM »
How about if US/ EU/NATO buys Russian equipment directly from the "Separatists", perhaps for half what it cost Russia, forcing Russia to replace it?  :clapping:

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« Reply #537 on: November 21, 2014, 04:24:29 PM »
Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.

Shooting a LAW (light anti-tank weapon) is incredibly easy.  I don't know about the current anti-tank weapons, but I think you are not giving enough credit to the intelligence of the Ukrainians.

As to the rest of your post it makes me think of Neville Chamberlain and his attempt to appease the Nazi's.  Winston Churchill took over after that and the rest is history.  You are being really naïve if you think that Putin is going to stop without military action by the West to stop him.  Again I'm glad that the British are there; and the sooner the war turns hot the sooner the little guy can be stopped.  He's going to find a way to provoke the West either way -- that's what he wants.  You're simply delusional if you think that Europe alone is going to be able to negotiate with this guy.

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« Reply #538 on: November 21, 2014, 04:28:56 PM »
I seriously doubt that there would be very much transition time to adapt to other styles of weapons. The US wouldn't just toss them off the plane and leave. There would be training if it's already not underway now. Don't forget that UA has already helped with NATO projects.

Ukrainian soldiers fought with the British and Americans and the rest of the coalition partners already in Iraq.  To say that they cannot fight or cannot learn how to fire a Javelin anti-tank weapon is absurd.  Ukrainian civilians with only rocks and sticks beat back Russian thugs armed with guns in Odessa.  It's their country and they are more than capable of getting the job done with the proper weapons.


excerpt
"The Javelin system is deployed and ready to fire in less than 30 seconds and the reload time is less than 20 seconds."

Unlike conventional wire guided, fibre-optic cable guided, or laser beam riding missiles, Javelin is autonomously guided to the target after launch, leaving the gunner free to reposition or reload immediately after launch.

A soft launch ejects the missile from the launch tube to give a low-recoil shoulder launch. The soft launch enables firing from inside buildings or covered positions. Once the missile is clear, the larger propellant in the second stage is ignited and the missile is propelled towards the target. The weapon has two attack modes, direct or top attack.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/



Ukrainian's who served in Iraq:

"An independent contingent, consisting of 1,650 troops from the 5th Mechanized Brigade, was deployed to Kut (South Central Iraq) in late 2003. In May 2005, the brigade was replaced with the 81st Tactical Group, numbering around 900 troops.[94] A training team of around 40 troops remained in Diwaniyah until December 9, 2008.[95] The deployment was then reduced continuously until the remaining 44 troops were pulled out on December 22, 2005.[96] This fulfilled a long-planned withdrawal pledged by newly elected President Viktor Yushchenko. Ukraine suffered 18 fatalities: twelve in attacks, three in accidents, two in suicides and one as a result of a heart attack, while 33 were wounded or injured.[97] Early in 2004, three Ukrainian engineers were taken hostage in Iraq but were freed shortly after."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 04:40:48 PM by AC »

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« Reply #539 on: November 21, 2014, 04:54:46 PM »

Offline JayH

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« Reply #540 on: November 21, 2014, 05:59:48 PM »
Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.

1/  Because Putin says it does not make it a fact!!( except in the minds of a few delusional forums fools).Putin's big bluff to keep the west from helping Ukraine is that he will escalate-- and I do not doubt he will do that regardless--but delaying help from the west is assisting Putin's ambitions.Putin pointing the finger at the USA is a diversionary strategy deliberately designed to turn attention from the Ukrainian peoples desire for a future free of of the past inadequacies of an association dominated by Russia.
Gator-- your comments allow Putin to continue setting the agenda in his own way ( G-aimed at the general conclusions reached by a few  & not just you !)
2/  Better equipment will assist the Ukrainian forces greatly-- right now they are in grave danger of being overrun because they are effectively out gunned ( take note that they are suffering heavier losses now as the Russians have been pouring in men and equipment that is superior to previously) As others have said-- Ukrainians will adapt quick enough-- but--if it means training them with western instructors-I am 100% for it.
Putin knows his troops are potentially vulnerable-- the west needs to call that bluff.It cannot be a 5% call--it needs to 100% effort without prior announcements  eg  pour equipment in plus whatever else is needed and keep saying a few instructors have been sent!!
3/ It is a worlds mess--Putin is a threat to world stability--not just Europe .
Your call is 200 years out of date-- no country is an island when it comes to world affairs. We are all citizens of the world and cannot ignore the mindless murder of innocent people.
Your attitude would turn a blind eye to the holocaust-- as the world did again in the breakup of Yugoslavia where ethnic extermination revisited Europe. Taking that chance again and ignoring Putin now will prove a huge mistake for the world.
Confronting him now-- when you have willing forces on the ground-- desperately in need of help-- makes a lot more sense than allowing Putin's nazis free reign.


In other posts--I posted links to a former Putin advisors comments-- they need to be read  as they dispel any notion that any of Putins invasions this year were ad-hoc spur of the moment ideas . It is basically a 7/8 year old plan -probably created when the potential of the democratic process was shown with the Orange revolution  to be a danger to the kleptocrats in Ukraine & Russia.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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« Reply #541 on: November 21, 2014, 08:51:56 PM »

USA Ukraine passed three protivominometnyh Radar


It is planned to transfer the Ukrainian military 20 such radars.
The US military was brought to Ukraine first three light protivominometnye radar system, which will go on the arms of the Ukrainian army . This was announced on Friday, November 21, Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren, passes Ukrinform .
TOPIC

Yesterday, 15:50
"Radar systems see approximation mortar fire and quickly calculate the position of the enemy" - explained Warren.
According to him, the Ukrainian military themselves determine where and when they will use these systems.
The press service of the Pentagon said it is the first batch of radar systems, which likely will include 20 units and they will be delivered in the next few weeks.
American military experts will begin training Ukrainian colleagues in mid-December.
Radar systems - part of comprehensive care in the amount of US $ 118 million, provides for the provision of equipment and training of the Ukrainian military.
"We are working closely with the Ukrainians in the process of interagency cooperation,"
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #542 on: November 22, 2014, 01:54:24 AM »

Merkel runs out of patience with Putin

The Globe and Mail
JOANNA SLATER


    
 At a Hilton hotel last week in Brisbane, Australia, they talked for six hours, at first without any aides or other officials present.

But whatever transpired at the late-night meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the outcome wasn’t heartening. In a speech in Australia two days later, the normally measured Ms. Merkel was blunt.

The crisis in Ukraine was not just a regional matter, but something that affects “all of us,” she said. Russia’s actions represented an unacceptable return to a Cold War paradigm of dividing the world into spheres of influence, she added, with worrisome consequences for countries such as Moldova, Georgia and the countries of the western Balkans. Moreover, Europe, the United States and others must remain united in inflicting economic pain on Russia, she said, for what could be a very long time.

She remarked pointedly that Germany had observed several notable anniversaries this year, including the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. “All of a sudden we see ourselves confronted with a conflict that seems to be an attack against the very heart of our values,” Ms. Merkel said. “We have to prove that we’ve learned something from the past.”

German Chancellor Angela Merkel was shaken when Russian President Vladimir Putin coldly admitted to her that he had sent troops into Crimea.© Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters German Chancellor Angela Merkel was shaken when Russian President Vladimir Putin coldly admitted to her that he had sent troops into Crimea.   
Ms. Merkel’s straight talk is a sign that she has lost patience with Mr. Putin, with whom she has spoken more than 30 times since the crisis began. She has been a chief proponent of continuing dialogue with the Russian leader, but in her latest remarks, she indicated that Western countries also need to start preparing for the long haul. “This is not something that is going to end no matter what the settlement of the issue in Ukraine,” said Joerg Forbrig, an expert on eastern Europe at the German Marshall Fund of the United States. “Russia is basically driving a systemic confrontation here. She senses that.”

Mr. Putin, 62, and Ms. Merkel, 60, were both shaped by their experiences of the Cold War, with radically different results. A theoretical physicist and the daughter of a pastor in East Germany, Ms. Merkel emerged as a conservative politician with an abiding commitment to the right to self-determination.

Mr. Putin “recognizes Merkel as the only really strong person in this crisis, not Obama,” said Stefan Meister, a Russia expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin. “He believes Obama is a very weak politician.”

Ms. Merkel is also not easily provoked. “The alpha-male thing is something Putin always wins,” Mr. Forbrig said. “Merkel doesn’t go there. He’s driven nuts by the calmness that she has. It doesn’t give a surface for friction.”

The two leaders have no need for interpreters. Ms. Merkel speaks Russian after growing up in East Germany; Mr. Putin speaks German after serving as a KGB agent in Dresden. Their relationship is not close, experts say, but professional. There have been a few notable tensions along the way: Back in 2007, during a meeting at his country home, Mr. Putin reportedly let his black Labrador loose, knowing Ms. Merkel harbours a fear of large dogs.

Yet Mr. Putin appears to have miscalculated Ms. Merkel – and Germany. While the country has strong economic ties to Russia, to the tune of €77-billion ($107-billion) in annual trade, its government has been a leading voice in favour of sanctions. German business lobbies have complained vociferously about the impact of the trade restrictions, but Ms. Merkel has stated that the costs of the government’s policy to corporations are outweighed by the costs of doing nothing. The German public is backing her up. Ms. Merkel’s approval ratings, after nearly a decade as Chancellor, touched an all-time high in September. A poll conducted in November found that 77 per cent of Germans felt that Russia couldn’t be trusted as a partner.

Gernot Erler, a member of Germany’s parliament, the Bundestag, who acts as its liaison to Russia, said that a recent trip to Moscow showed signs of a continually deteriorating dialogue. The fact that Germans are “not willing to accept the annexation of Crimea as a reunification comparable to that in Germany leaves our Russian interlocutors puzzled,” he said. Mr. Erler added that for the first time ever, members of the Russian parliament, the State Duma, are systematically refusing to have any contact with their German colleagues.

“The Germans have for many years had the illusion they could act as a bridge” between Russia and the West, asserted Mr. Forbrig of the German Marshall Fund. “That illusion was shattered this year. Whatever the Foreign Ministry or government tried in the way of mediation ultimately failed.”

Ms. Merkel’s task now, he said, is to rally other European countries to support a further round of sanctions should Mr. Putin take further aggressive moves in Ukraine, as now seems highly likely. She can also prepare for other contingencies: how Europe would react to a shut-off of natural gas supplies from Russia, for instance, or how it will counter Russian pressure on countries such as Moldova, who want closer ties with the EU.

Ms. Merkel, for her part, believes the road will be a long and difficult one. “Those that put the right of the stronger before the strength of the law” must not be allowed to prevail, she said earlier this week in Australia. And just because the crisis cannot be solved with military force does not mean there is no solution, she added.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/merkel-runs-out-of-patience-with-putin/ar-BBf7KgJ?ocid=BDT5DHP

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« Reply #543 on: November 22, 2014, 10:00:21 AM »
Mr. Putin, 62, and Ms. Merkel, 60, were both shaped by their experiences of the Cold War, with radically different results. A theoretical physicist and the daughter of a pastor in East Germany, Ms. Merkel emerged as a conservative politician with an abiding commitment to the right to self-determination.

Mr. Putin “recognizes Merkel as the only really strong person in this crisis, not Obama,” said Stefan Meister, a Russia expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin. “He believes Obama is a very weak politician.”

Ms. Merkel is also not easily provoked. “The alpha-male thing is something Putin always wins,” Mr. Forbrig said. “Merkel doesn’t go there. He’s driven nuts by the calmness that she has. It doesn’t give a surface for friction.”

A very wise lady.  I've often admired her.  She doesn't make excuses, she doesn't play the usual gender games that American female politicians play when they can't get their way.  Like most Germans her education is stellar and she is prepared and just goes about her business.

Offline Photo Guy

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #544 on: November 22, 2014, 10:37:43 AM »
A question for Russians:
Why do Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine and other neighboring countries want to belong to NATO?

Answer: They are AFRAID of Russia.
They are NOT afraid of France, Germany, the USA, Poland, ...the 'West'.

I too admire Merkel. She's the opposite of Putin.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 10:41:05 AM by Photo Guy »

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #545 on: November 22, 2014, 10:50:03 AM »
A question for Russians:
Why do Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine and other neighboring countries want to belong to NATO?

Answer: They are AFRAID of Russia.
They are NOT afraid of France, Germany, the USA, Poland, ...the 'West'.

I too admire Merkel. She's the opposite of Putin.

Self determination I believe is the strongest human desire that there is.  Just as each individual person wishes to self-determine their lives and their futures, nations especially wish to determine the life and the future of their nation.  While the EU fromework is not perfect it is certainly preferred to what Russia offers.

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« Reply #546 on: November 22, 2014, 02:58:02 PM »
Good article about how Putler may be running out of chips in his game of poker with the West.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-wounded-economy-is-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis-2014-11?IR=T

Offline JayH

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #547 on: November 22, 2014, 04:42:35 PM »
Good article about how Putler may be running out of chips in his game of poker with the West.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-wounded-economy-is-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis-2014-11?IR=T

Article touches on numerous key issues-- the main one being Putin's stupidity and ongoing gamble(bluff) that the west cant do without Russia.
At some point the scales will tilt permanently against Putin-- where the current western losses and potential losses as a result of Russian connected investment  will be outweighed by the possiblity of in effect picking up the losses when the collapse of the Russian economy sees the same assets and more available at a much lower price to acquire.
As it stands now--  cash reserves are in the dangerous level-- and in fact are insufficient to meet obligations in the next year. Something has to give--and thanks to the Kremlin putting it's head in the sand it will be dramatic.
Particularly of interest is if Ukraine can hold on militarily in the short term -- and force Russia into a protracted battle.The irony is that part of Putin's war on Ukraine strategy was to break Ukraine economically-- and it may in fact do exactly that to Russia itself.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline LAman

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« Reply #548 on: November 22, 2014, 06:00:58 PM »
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'. Gator made some valid points looking more into long term what effects certain decisions now will eventually become( likely). My thoughts is a can of worms would open up with US being directly involved in the War.......with Ukraine and 'separatists' becoming an after thought.

Spend a few days with the Red Cross dealing with the civilians injured/dying in eastern Ukraine and wonder will it end...or just escalate!! Sad, so sad.... :-[

I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

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« Reply #549 on: November 22, 2014, 06:47:08 PM »
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'. Gator made some valid points looking more into long term what effects certain decisions now will eventually become( likely). My thoughts is a can of worms would open up with US being directly involved in the War.......with Ukraine and 'separatists' becoming an after thought.

Spend a few days with the Red Cross dealing with the civilians injured/dying in eastern Ukraine and wonder will it end...or just escalate!! Sad, so sad.... :-[

I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.

The use of the word "separatists " justs disgusts me-it shows your ignorance-they are Russians fcs--how hard is it to work that out? Russians who have invaded another country  and are responsible for the murder of citizens of numerous other nations as well as Ukraine.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 07:04:30 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

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