Don't go to Odessa!

[brownbeard99]

"Don't go to Odessa" were the strong words of advice given to me so long ago. I wonder where my life would be now if I had followed this advice... as I look out over the city center this morning in this beautiful Ukrainian city. Odessa is now my home. I love it here, but I will repeat the words of wisdom of those who have gone before me with one slight addition... "Don't do to Odessa if you are looking for love."  In the same way, I wouldn't tell someone not to go to Las Vegas... unless they had plans to go to the Bunny Ranch to find a nice girl to marry.

If anyone wants to know what the current state of affairs is here, I can help... Odessa is not really like any other city in Ukraine.  This is a tourist city... funded largely by foreigners... much of which is geared toward the sex and "love" industry.  There are multiple planes coming from Turkey every day... filled with sex tourists looking for an easy lay... And there are plenty of women here who are willing to accommodate those wishes.  I have learned a lot living in Odessa.  I have made friends with people who own night clubs, brothels, online prostitution rings as well as people who work for dating agencies as translators and also the "talent". 

Most of the girls that are willing to meet you here will be somewhere on the prostitution spectrum.  If you want to date a hot young girl who will make you feel good about yourself, you can find her in Odessa.  If you want a prostitute, but only have 500 UAH in your pocket, that's not a problem.

Odessa is a lively, fun tourist place, but it's a really dark place when you look behind the curtains. Locals are proud of scamming tourists and share their stories like badges of honor. If you meet a girl here who speaks English well, you should be immediately suspicious.  In general, the "good girls" here won't speak much English and won't even talk to you if you are a tourist.  If she will talk to you, she better hear a damn good reason why you are in Odessa. Men come here for sex or with unrealistic expectations of love.  One of my favorite things is to walk by the cafes in the city center. You will see the same thing over and over... An American man in his 50's or 60's having dinner with two girls in their early 20's.

These men meet girls on marriage sites, or even regular dating sites... He asks a girl out, but she needs to bring her friend to translate @ $20/hour.  Since the girls split the money, many girls will say they need a translator, even if they speak English. I have a male friend who was a translator for an agency for many years.  He said he never once translated for a date where the girl was legitimately interested in the foreign guy. They go for dinner, drinks, coffee, dancing, karaoke... anything to keep the date going longer.  Of course, she choses where they go... places with a "special" English menu with triple prices for everything.  The restaurant splits the extra profit with the girl and the money is on her card before she even gets home.

Quarantine has hit Odessa hard.  There is almost no legitimate work for girls.  They do what they have to do to put food on the table.  Many girls you meet are married. Many are prostitutes and their husbands make them work to help support the family.  It's a sad state of affairs.

That bring said... If you still want to come to Odessa, spend some real time here... Learn Russian, get to know the people and understand them. Make friends... men and women. Ride the minibus, trollybus, tramway, trains. Live away from the tourist areas. Spend time with a Ukrainian family. Learn to cook Ukrainian food. Go shopping in the bazaar.

There are many good things here besides sex and "Love".  The culture is very interesting here.  The people often seem cold on the outside, but warm on the inside and they all have a story... often of hardship.  This place has grown on me, as have the people.... But if you think you can come here for three weeks... or even three months and find love... save your money and go to Las Vegas... because your chances of meeting a "good girl" are probably better there.

[Trenchcoat]

That's a great contribution BB and great to see you back on the board after time away

I see you are one of those braving the virus epidemic out there then. I'm guessing there aren't many foreigners out there doing so, so those industry girls and the rest must be pretty hard pressed economically. I think Japs & RWD are the only ones also out there at this time that are obvious to me, Maxx of course in Georgia but for other reasons.

Your story correlates a lot with those found in the book, 'Odessa Dreams'. I went to Odessa a few years ago stopping off there a few days to look around on the way to see a girl in Nikoleav. It sure does have an interesting feel to the place and the city centre is a nice place to be. At the time I noticed a fair number of Americans around, some were women etc who were there just to visit it as a tourist destination without any interest in the dating game, they were in the bazaars and around the market stalls etc, not loads but a few. I noticed other American guys too, obvious sex tourists, youngish men  a group of a few guys I saw wearing fashion branded singlet too & shorts kind of tacky looking and they probably stood out a mile as obvious sex tourists. Some other American guys I saw around the Airport on the way back at the bars. The old airport terminal was in use at that time which had a quirkyness to it.

Your story though is definitely a good reminder to not look to Odessa for a real relationship, or at least be highly aware of what you're dealing with. No doubt a few guys meet decent girls, likely older women but know what to look out for and to avoid. Like you say better places in Ukraine to meet women.

[brownbeard99]

Thanks for the welcome back!  Your assessment of Odessa seems spot on with my experience.  I know some people who have been here many times and choose not to accept reality.  I know a Canadian who has been coming here for 11 years and has lived here for the past 3.  He still meets girls through agencies and thinks it's normal for a 65 year old man (not wealthy) to meet a woman in her 30's who will fall in love with him for his charming personality.  I met another 40 something American on the plane last summer who has been coming to Ukraine on AFA tours for 8 years... he still doesn't have a clue about what's really going on.

I am not saying all the girls here are bad.  In the past, I have met some girls who only speak Russian... translation earbuds come in handy.  In the end, I met a girl on a local dating site.  She is from Nikolaev and lives in Odessa far from the dating scene.  She works for a Turkish agricultural equipment company, so through her job, she knows 5 languages, including English.  She is nothing like the Ukrainian model beauties you see on the Internet.  She is just a normal girl who could be from anywhere.  I was lucky to find her... especially in a city like Odessa.

[ML]

The city name is spelled Odesa.

[mhr7]

The city name is spelled Odesa.

Only 6% of the city speaks Ukrainian, 78% speaks Russian. I think Odessa is more apt regardless of geography.

[ML]

Only 6% of the city speaks Ukrainian, 78% speaks Russian. I think Odessa is more apt regardless of geography.

Are you saying that the official governments of countries are not allowed to determine the spelling of areas of their country, cities, etc. and their English translations ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ukraine

[2tallbill]

Are you saying that the official governments of countries are not allowed to determine the spelling of areas of their country, cities, etc. and their English translations ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ukraine

Japan is called Nihon and less common is Nippon. Marco Polo f#cked it up by asking
Chinese how to say it (all Asians look the same to Marco) and we have been calling
them that ever since.

We don't call Mexico Meh-hee-ko

The Dewd lives in Odessa and made it his home.

[mhr7]

Are you saying that the official governments of countries are not allowed to determine the spelling of areas of their country, cities, etc. and their English translations ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ukraine

Countries can do as they please but Odessa, like Kiev and The Ukraine, are still very much accepted as the proper spelling and terms. Don't expect them to change anytime soon, if ever.

[Trenchcoat]

Thanks for the welcome back!  Your assessment of Odessa seems spot on with my experience.  I know some people who have been here many times and choose not to accept reality.  I know a Canadian who has been coming here for 11 years and has lived here for the past 3.  He still meets girls through agencies and thinks it's normal for a 65 year old man (not wealthy) to meet a woman in her 30's who will fall in love with him for his charming personality.  I met another 40 something American on the plane last summer who has been coming to Ukraine on AFA tours for 8 years... he still doesn't have a clue about what's really going on.

I am not saying all the girls here are bad.  In the past, I have met some girls who only speak Russian... translation earbuds come in handy.  In the end, I met a girl on a local dating site.  She is from Nikolaev and lives in Odessa far from the dating scene.  She works for a Turkish agricultural equipment company, so through her job, she knows 5 languages, including English.  She is nothing like the Ukrainian model beauties you see on the Internet.  She is just a normal girl who could be from anywhere.  I was lucky to find her... especially in a city like Odessa.

It's great to have someone with first hand knowledge out there at this time BB when it's pretty closed off because of the virus. I see the official virus figures are on their way down so hopefully that will all change. I wouldn't mind getting out there in the next month or so, not likely to Odessa though of course.

I think you touched on an important point BB with your description of that girl. Many guys think that Ukrainian women are all Models they don't understand that they are just the women put in front of them. Fair enough if that is what the guy wants to go for but getting one for real and not being taken for a ride by one is a lot harder ask. If WM took a few minutes to look around when out there in the Airports, supermarkets, shops, etc they would see many ordinary looking Ukrainian women (or Belarusian, Russian). Girls dresses as cleaners, shop attendants, hotel maids, etc, etc. Getting an everyday girl like that is more likely to end in success. Some guys don't mind a girls looks so much but end up getting hooked by the pretty girls put in front of them because the dating industry out there assumes that is what all WM want, some WM don't realise just how close to a model the girl they are seeing is and just see her as another girl.

So I personally think there is a lot that could be done with bringing WM closer to ordinary everyday FSW. I personally think that would push the success rate way up. If you say to a young Ukrainian girl with average everyday looks who works cleaning toilets in the local shopping centre or Airport, 'hey this WM is interested in you and you can go have a good life with him in the UK and not have to clean toilets anymore' then I think many would jump at the chance provided the guy wasn't a real state or anything.

Some of those type of girls apparently turn up at AFA events but apparently tend to be outshone by the pretty girls & scammers, etc. It's funny I was thinking about AFA today that I think many of those older dudes, overweight guys and guys that just don't seem to get it well either they don't truely get it or they know its a scam hand on heart they just see it as a way to get their dream of spending time with a load of real pretty girls in an imaginary world that for a short while appears to come true for them. If they are like that I don't blame them as it's probably nice for them to experience what they never had and a few hundred dollars to them is probably nothing. If they really are deluded though then that is unfortunate particularly if they've been doing it for years and still never caught on.

[Boethius]

Countries can do as they please but Odessa, like Kiev and The Ukraine, are still very much accepted as the proper spelling and terms. Don't expect them to change anytime soon, if ever.

Nope.  The Ukrainian government has requested, officially, the spelling "Kyiv" and no article in front of Ukraine.  It's akin to saying "Peking" for Beijing.


brownbeard, while things worked out for you, by your own admission, Odesa is still a city of scammers (it was known this way as early as the 19th century).  I believe, based on the stories you posted of senior citizens assuming nubile young women will be sexually attracted to men the age of their grandfathers, and another thinking and Anastasia Date tour is a great place to find a potential partner, the advice given to you seems to be correct, even if things worked out for you personally. 

So what happened to your children?  I assume they didn't move with you?

[Boethius]

So I personally think there is a lot that could be done with bringing WM closer to ordinary everyday FSW. I personally think that would push the success rate way up. If you say to a young Ukrainian girl with average everyday looks who works cleaning toilets in the local shopping centre or Airport, 'hey this WM is interested in you and you can go have a good life with him in the UK and not have to clean toilets anymore' then I think many would jump at the chance provided the guy wasn't a real state or anything.

That's a big jump to make, and you are like a broken record on this issue.


Any woman interested in meeting a foreigner has the opportunity to sign up for a dating site.  Not all Ukrainian women wish to move abroad, and many that do, would do so only with a Ukrainian born husband.  Your focus should be on women who are actually looking for a foreign born man.  Your speculation is just lost energy.

[John Gaunt]

That's a big jump to make, and you are like a broken record on this issue.


Any woman interested in meeting a foreigner has the opportunity to sign up for a dating site.  Not all Ukrainian women wish to move abroad, and many that do, would do so only with a Ukrainian born husband.  Your focus should be on women who are actually looking for a foreign born man.  Your speculation is just lost energy.

That wouldn’t work with TC.
His targets are those economically deprived women whom he thinks he can entice with his ‘better life in the UK’.
Of course, unbeknownst to those women, their quality of life would most definitely be better where they are.
Reading what TC writes, it does make me wonder, just who is the scammer here?

[mhr7]

Nope.  The Ukrainian government has requested, officially, the spelling "Kyiv" and no article in front of Ukraine.  It's akin to saying "Peking" for Beijing.

I'm aware of all of this. Kiev and The Ukraine are still commonly used in the West, regardless.

[Boethius]

Just because they are used does not make it correct, or accurate.

[ML]

I'm aware of all of this. Kiev and The Ukraine are still commonly used in the West, regardless.

By those who wish to show their disrespect and contempt for Ukraine.

[mhr7]

By those who wish to show their disrespect and contempt for Ukraine.

I don't think they're showing either, they just don't keep up with current events.

[John Gaunt]

I don't think they're showing either, they just don't keep up with current events.

I’d agree with this. People get habituated to saying things in a certain way.
I find myself writing ‘Kiev’ at times.

[Trenchcoat]

Quarantine has hit Odessa hard.  There is almost no legitimate work for girls.  They do what they have to do to put food on the table.  Many girls you meet are married. Many are prostitutes and their husbands make them work to help support the family.  It's a sad state of affairs.

On Fdate at the moment, notice quite a number of girls in their thirties coming up as Divorced in Ukraine. Wondering if it's all hitting marriages hard as no doubt a lot of economic hardship around as a result of the lockdowns I would imagine?

[GQBlues]

Thanks for the welcome back! Your assessment of Odessa seems spot on with my experience.  I know some people who have been here many times and choose not to accept reality.  I know a Canadian who has been coming here for 11 years and has lived here for the past 3.  He still meets girls through agencies and thinks it's normal for a 65 year old man (not wealthy) to meet a woman in her 30's who will fall in love with him for his charming personality.  I met another 40 something American on the plane last summer who has been coming to Ukraine on AFA tours for 8 years... he still doesn't have a clue about what's really going on.

I am not saying all the girls here are bad.  In the past, I have met some girls who only speak Russian... translation earbuds come in handy.  In the end, I met a girl on a local dating site.  She is from Nikolaev and lives in Odessa far from the dating scene.  She works for a Turkish agricultural equipment company, so through her job, she knows 5 languages, including English.  She is nothing like the Ukrainian model beauties you see on the Internet.  She is just a normal girl who could be from anywhere.  I was lucky to find her... especially in a city like Odessa.

Hi BB-

Nice to see your return complete with in-country report. Whether or not this still doesn’t knock some senses in a lot of folks of the perils in this endeavor, maybe just as well for many of them.

Ironically however, you were once the target of the peanut gallery, but you not only marched to your own drumbeat, but actually had gone beyond what you hoped and what can be expected.

Would love your personal experience as to the advice that bearded dudes like you will be feigned upon by the felines of Ukraine. Did you shaved off your beard, or did you find out that was unfounded. Curious.

Good luck going forward, man.

[2tallbill]

some WM don't realise

Trench,

It's you who don't realize what it takes to get a woman. You have to win her heart.
All the silly ideas bouncing around in your head are wrong.

You have to win her heart. You have to talk to her every day on Skype and in person.
Otherwise you will still be posting here on the forum in a decade no closer to learning
Russian, no closer to being ripped and no closer to having a sweet young thing in your
bedroom. You are getting further and further away every day entertaining these ideas
of yours.

Never, ever, ever pursue a girl who is desperate. Desperate girls tend to act desperately. 
The moment that they are no longer desperate they will not need you or want you. The
very thing that you fear the most will happen. You know what it is, so I don't need to lay
it out here.

Win the girls heart. Don't think that you can wave your wallet.

A member named Leslied once said. Don't be surprised if you find gold diggers if you use
money as bait.

[2tallbill]

"Don't go to Odessa"

Brownbeard,

I want to invite you to start a trip report and post some of your experiences there.
(or here) Ignore the peanut gallery and pass on some of your thoughts and the
various Odessa life hacks that you learned along the way. I think that it would
be very interesting.

Udachi!

Bill

[2tallbill]

"Don't go to Odessa"

I've tried to dispense that advice for years. There is just too much of a MOB
industry that has been perfecting and fine tuning their wallet thinning abilities
for the average newbie to navigate successfully. I think Nikolaev is probably
equally treacherous.

NOTICE TO NEWBIES: Avoid the perils of the MOB industry and eliminate
Odessa and Nikolaev or anywhere near the Ukraine/Russia border dispute
from your search criteria. There are many good girls from those areas but
you are unlikely to find them.

Udachi!

Bill

[Trenchcoat]

Trench,

It's you who don't realize what it takes to get a woman. You have to win her heart.
All the silly ideas bouncing around in your head are wrong.

Ok, usual place for this one then:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24334.275

[tfcrew]

I'm aware of all of this. Kiev and The Ukraine are still commonly used in the West, regardless.

Одесса...Киев---This is the Russian Women Discussion board. Who cares how it is spelled in English?
The Ukrainian translations are awful anyway.
 I am from The Texas...soon I will visit The New York and then go to The Canada--- now does that sound right? 

[tfcrew]

BTW...My wife of 20 years is from Odessa and I liked it there. The bearded thread starter is entitled to his opinion.