Big City Women vs. Village Girls

[KenC]

You should not generalize all women. More often the less needy  woman uses the men like a mule and in-love-donkey and so she is the less needy woman and allways won.
Good luck boys and be careful Olga

Sorry Olga,
But the more desperate the woman, the more desperate her actions may be.  That is only logical.  The less desperate the woman, the less likely she will be to take desperate actions.  That too is only logical.

What you are saying here, if I understand corrctly, is that a less needy woman is more likely to use an AM as a mule than a more needy woman?  That doesn't make any sense to me, sorry.
KenC

[jinx13]

 I think I get the point Olga was trying to make, the less needy woman has more power over the love struck fool, and can use him to get what she wants, even if she doesn't need much in the way of basic living, she wouldn't mind some diamond jewelry or a trip to Paris..

 

[Turboguy]

It seems to me to be logical that the more needy woman would be more likely to do things out of despiration and greed, HOWEVER, when I think about some of the situations that I have seen it could convince me the opposite is true.

For example I know one of our members was scammed by a very unethical woman.   The info he has indicates that her monthly income is right around $ 20.000.00 US and she has three luxury apartments in a major FSU city.

When I think back to the few gals who I met who really were in the needy class they were as honest as the day is long.  When I think back to the gals who blatenly were after money, they were usually leading pretty comfortable lives. 

Perhaps the motivator is greed and not poverty.

Things like this are just speculation and guesses.  There are no ways to prove much of anything.

[LEGAL]

Thankyou Jinx Olga that is exactly what Olga meant!

                    LEGAL

[LEGAL]

Men and woman alike do many different things for many differeant reasons, not just out of desperation. Some have there own personal agenda! etc etc this  topic can turn into a highly charged  philosophical nightmare for newbies . we should all try to remember what we are trying to accomplish here.  For the sake of newbies  (the Moscow woman have more on the ball statement) I disagree with from my own three years of personal experience of having dated and spent a great deal of time  in Moscow,Saint Petersburg,Tula and Kemerovo.
There are intelegant,sophisticated,beautiful and loving woman in all of these city's, the quest for the man searching for this lies within his own good judgment to find his true sole mate


                  Sincerely
                  LEGAL

[I/O]

Internet forum sites such as this can perhaps be best defined thus...."When you are up to your arse in aligaters, it is sometimes difficult to remain focused on the original objective, which was to drain the swamp".

I've given my shot at the definition of class up thread so no need to go there again. One of the very important advices to be pushed in this thread is that she MUST fit your lifestyle in whatever form that is, or if you choose to live in her country, at least initially you will need to do likewise.

It is easy for any person to adapt to stepping up in "Living Standards", it is not so easy to step down.  However, it is not easy for a person to "Step Up" a level in "Class" (Which I think are personal, not material qualities) but it is very easy for many people to "Step Down" in class, we see this every day of the week in our own cities, for that matter probably in our own offices.  No need to go east (In my case north) to see that.

Class and sophistication have nothing whatsoever to do with snobishness...!!!  To draw a conclusion that there is a fine line between the two is bullsh!t of the highest form.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  The snobs of this world have no class whatsoever all be it if a few of them may be in the high end financial bracket. Usually the snobs, (not always, but often) are the ones who wish to be in the higher end financial bracket and are trying desparately to make it without much idea of how to get there.  Not so often (Of course they exist) will you find a person who is actually in the higher end financially, or actually making a good job of getting there, who is a snob.  Old adage applies...."Empty barrells make the loudest noise"...!!!

I/O

[LEGAL]

Sorry Olga,
But the more desperate the woman, the more desperate her actions may be.  That is only logical.  The less desperate the woman, the less likely she will be to take desperate actions.  That too is only logical.

What you are saying here, if I understand corrctly, is that a less needy woman is more likely to use an AM as a mule than a more needy woman?  That doesn't make any sense to me, sorry.
KenC

Every educated person will understand the meaning of this Shakespeare's sonnet.

HOW sweet and lovely dost thou make the shame
Which, like a canker in the fragrant rose,
Doth spot the beauty of thy budding name!
O! in what sweets dost thou thy sins enclose.
That tongue that tells the story of thy days,
Making lascivious comments on thy sport,
Cannot dispraise, but in a kind of praise;
Naming thy name, blesses an ill report.
O! what a mansion have those vices got
Which for their habitation chose out thee,
Where beauty’s veil doth cover every blot
And all things turns to fair that eyes can see!
    Take heed, dear heart, of this large privilege;
    The hardest knife ill-us’d doth lose his edge.

Oh, Man! It is so easy to hide the cruel soul and sins under the luxury and splendour.

"Thou blind fool, Love, what dost thou to mine eyes,
That they behold, and see not what they see?
They know what beauty is, see where it lies,
Yet what the best is take the worst to be".

Logic of man and logic of woman are different. Therefor woman and man always will  be in love trying to understand each other. And it is always will be  difficult for man to understand woman because logic of woman is the eternal issue of Philosophy .

Sincerely
Olga

[Turboguy]

Well I/O, since I was the one who made the statement that there is a fine line between class and sophistication and snobbishness that you disagree with I will make a comment.

Before I do, I try to though out ideas and thoughts that I hope may make some people think, or that give me reason to think.   There are a lot of people here who believe what they believe, right or wrong come hell or high water.   I am not one of them.

In putting more thought into what I said and what you said, my feelings are now that you are right.  Class and snobbishness are unrelated.  I do think the snobs tend to not know the difference though.

 I will have to look back on your definition of Class and see if I have any comments about that.  There have been enough posts that I have forgotten what you said.   I think your point about finding someone that fits you is right on the money.

KenC,  I think it is more an issue of greed than need.  Yes, a woman with a bad life is more looking for an escape route but also may feel she needs to hang onto success when she finds it.  A woman with greed will never be satisfied no matter how much hay her mule has.

[viking]

Snob

a person regarded as arrogant and annoying

1.   One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors.
2.   One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.


Qualities that seem to substantiate social or intellectual pretensions

someone who places too high a value on social status, treating those higher up the social ladder obsequiously, and those lower down the social ladder with condescension and contempt.

Sophisiticated

a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone

the quality or character of being intellectually sophisticated through cultivation or experience or disillusionment

marked by wide-ranging knowledge and appreciation of many parts of the world arising from urban life and wide travel; "the sophisticated manners of a true cosmopolite"; "urbane and pliant...he was at ease even in the drawing rooms of Paris"
having or appealing to those having worldly knowledge and refinement and savoir faire; "sophisticated young socialites"; "a sophisticated audience"; "a sophisticated lifestyle"; "a sophisticated book"

1.   To cause to become less natural, especially to make less naive and more worldly.
2.   To make impure; adulterate.
3.   To make more complex or inclusive; refine.

[IAmZon]

Excellent definitions KenC and Viking.

Four months ago, I was drunk from Russian bride sites.  I can remember actually scheduling a weekend trip around when Natalia invited me to CHAT (can you believe what a puss I was? Are you listening Infoman?)  I have become greatly rehabilitated thanks to RWD. {And the fact that I have just had a string of 3, count em gentlemen, T H R E E ,  hot ... HOT crazy young and sexy ladies that came in and out of my life.  They were perfect for me during this time!  I could have bounced a hand boiled egg off their asses with out cracking the egg one time. There is a God. Thanks.  I needed it}

I have particularly enjoyed the recent comments of I/O and LEGAL. 

Sophistication and class  There is a ripe topic. Yes, for me they are the real and enduring "turn on" ... everything else are just tits and ass. Which tends to loose their collective appeal between the 48th and 72nd hour.

I am working with the presumption that level of education is a prime indicator.  What would you guys say?

Interestingly, I have reached a Socratic style ignorance in regards to my next step.  Once I was CRAZY to begin cooresponding with profiles of ladies.  Now, I need writting Viagra ( I just picture a big fat Yuri telling me "You have a handsome form" and that he (she) "would love to learn me better").  My first two weeks at RWD, I must have posted 10 new threads.

Now, I am thinking of writting Nyet. Just taking out a map of Russian and throwing a dart with my eyes closed.  If the dart is closest to Moscow, St. Peteresburg, or Kiev, I'll go there in Spring ... just by myself and AMEX  I will learn at lease 100 Russian words and certainly mispronounce them all.

I/O, I see you referenced Romania?  What were your impressions of this FSU country? 

[Infoman]

Yes, I'm listening, Rivardco.   

I am talking to or have talked to probably the same smoking hot women.  I wonder if that Natalia is one of the Natalia's I have talked to - one Natalia in particular, from Moscow, is so hot it's not funny.

Guess what?  I sent a long letter to Patrick and RLM today - and outside of a number of "I'm leaving here" letters to still send, that part of things is officially over.

Infoman

[viking]

Now, I am thinking of writting Nyet. Just taking out a map of Russian and throwing a dart with my eyes closed.  If the dart is closest to Moscow, St. Peteresburg, or Kiev, I'll go there in Spring ... just by myself and AMEX  I will learn at lease 100 Russian words and certainly mispronounce them all.




Many, alas toooo many years ago, I took a month off and went to Europe. I landed in Paris, picked up a car and just went for it. No hotel arrangements, no reservations of any kind at all, no knowledge of foreign languages. Basically nothing. (long before all this RW stuff became popular). I had a blast. I met more women,more people who befriended me than you can imagine. Case in point. The first day, after finding a very cool $6 a night hotel on Rue St Germain, I headed for the nearest eating place, a small Italian resturant. Turns out the owner came from the same town as my mother so I could not pay for food the whole time I was in Paris and I tried. He then instructs his very beautiful fiancee and her equally beautiful girl friend to 'take care of me' as long as I was in town. And they did. We went everywhere and every place and some places a tourist would never find. And the nights were fantastic.

The point I am making here is that sometimes just getting on a plane and flying someplace and just go about enjoying yourself may be the best thing. Yes, I know, many of you will have quite a bit to say about this but if you know the phone numbers of a few agencies where you are going, letting them know ahead of time you are coming and then 'here I am' and go with the flow. Then why not? No one available today? Cool, head for a museum and soak in some culture. Go to the park and strike up some conversations. Go and try and buy something where 'you need help', go have fun. We all know that we can plan things down to some pretty small details and then they never work out. So...if there are no plans, how can anything go wrong? 

[TexasBoar]

You know, that's not such a bad idea, especially for a first time trip.  I remember reading someone's SPB trip report here (I think it was here) that commented on how many beautiful young women spend afternoons touring the Hermitage . . . 

~Boar

[I/O]

I/O, I see you referenced Romania?  What were your impressions of this FSU country? 

rivardco Romania in my view is geographically, culturally and demographically, a real dividing line or link depending on how you look at it, between the East and West of Europe.

The country is a vast diversity of older apartement style living, rural villages, modern town houses and gypsy nomadicism side by side almost wherever one goes.  Economically the country varies greatly from city to city and province to province.  I acknowledge that my exposure has been confined to Bucharest and North East to the Moldovian border, thus I can only speak for those locations.

Bucharest is a city of +2 million people of a wonderful diversity, with every modern facility one might wish for along with history and the rough end of town also.  I have travelled widely and feel comfortable in Urban and rural environments alike, I have never felt physically uncomfortable in any urban situation, but I would say that in Bucharest I found myself being a little more careful than I might in most other cites. 

Bacau by comparison is out in the East and is a smaller city 220k in population, but economically, obviously one of the stronger parts of the country, although many other cities in the East are not.  Bacau is quite modern in the centre with wider streets and much more openess than many European cities.  Very clean, good hotels, several good bars, clubs, cafe's and so forth.  All in all, I think Bacau could acommodate an urban or rural visitor with equal comfort and ease.

The rural scenerey is excellent with super mountain ranges and a host of tourist type places.  My city here is medium sized, but is quite near one of the wealthiest agricultural areas in my country and the quality of the land is obviously first class.  I noticed similar throughout Eastern Romania and of course that appealed to me.  Romaina is largely an agricultural country, but it does have some large manufacturing sectors also.  The central north is now a haven for Italian textile manufacturers, the east has aircraft manufacturing and also motor vehicles. 

My impressions of most Romanian people including the women is that they are quite street sharp and it would be at your own peril that you treated them as a "Pushover".   The ladies vary from location to location, but I saw "Silk purses and Sows ears" in all locations.   Many people speak deciferable English and the language is not difficult to pick up on, particularly if you know anything of any Latin based language.  The one thing which makes it very much simpler for me in Romania is the Latin alphabet.  Although not being able to read fluently, it is possible to figure things like maps and road signs will relative ease. 

Romania is totally different from Russia and Ukraine and if from my description, anyone is thinking that it may be a country to start and ease themselves into Eastern Culture, I would say emphatically NO...!!!  It doesn't work like that. One thing to bare in mind if one is travelling there is that my impressions (Don't take it as gospel) are that generally speaking the Romanians have no time for Russia or Russians and I suspect the feeling is mutual.  Don't tread on toes...!!! Oiy..!!

The posts above  mentioned just travelling "Ad Hoc" and I actually support this idea for a first time visitor.  Yes you will have some struggles with language and such, but you will come out a lot more street smart.  Not a bad thing if you plan to look seriously for a partner there.  Find a location that appeals to you and fish there, because although the primary long term objective may be to find the right partner, don't forget that wherever you find her, you will visit many many times before you die.

I/O who actually doesn't care where you go or how you do it as long as you do it smart..!!! Oiy..!!

[KenC]

HEY YOU GUYS! (TB, Rivardco and Infoman),
How about a blend of ideas?  Find an agency or a group of agencies in the same city and line up the gals to meet and then leave the backside of your trip open for freelancing?  For example if you hook up with LTP in Tver for the first 3 days and do the power date thing and then train your butts up to Moscow for the last4 or 5 days to go babe watching?  Of course if you hit it off with a chickie in Tver, you still have the backside of your trip to manipulate to fit your needs.  I only use Tver, LTP and Moscow because I know the logistics.

Turbo,
I loved your line:
Perhaps the motivator is greed and not poverty.  However, using a man as a mule to gain access to America seems to be an agenda move to upgrade overall life opportunities and not a greedy move.  Although I do know of one girl that was an interpreter for LTP that used a guy for an 89 day vacation in America with no intentions of staying.

Olga,
I think our confusion comes from my use of the term "mule."  My definition of a "mule" is a man that is unwittingly used by a foreign woman to gain access to America and eventually a green card.  To relocate your life and possibly your child's life is a pretty drastic move for a woman looking for a few trinkets.  I would think that to play a card such as that, she would have to be rather needy.  Not that you are not also right in saying that a man's logic differs greatly from a man's too!  
KenC

[Infoman]

Ken...

LTP - is that Lifetime Partners?

Hmmm...don't know If I could work with a place that highlight's a "dream bride" contest with photos - from AUGUST 2004!     Not exactly up-to-date.  Well, anyhow, my newly-revised plans are already taking shape, and I am starting to feel better about things.

Infoman

[LEGAL]

Olga,
I think our confusion comes from my use of the term "mule."  My definition of a "mule" is a man that is unwittingly used by a foreign woman to gain access to America and eventually a green card.  To relocate your life and possibly your child's life is a pretty drastic move for a woman looking for a few trinkets.  I would think that to play a card such as that, she would have to be rather needy.  Not that you are not also right in saying that a man's logic differs greatly from a man's too!  
KenC

KenC,
I think our confusion comes not from "mule" but from our disagreement of opinion (The needier the woman, the more easily she will be convinced to emigrate and the more likely she will only be using the foreign man as a mule. In some cases, it is just the color of the man's passport that is important. The opposite is also true. The less needy the woman, the more discriminating her choices will be...) Do you notice how our logic of man and woman are different A mule is a mule in Africa too    A smart pretty less needy "angel" uses mule to get green card. And after 5 years (or if a mule more Lucky after 10 years) she gets a divorce and money and for her baby too and after she will be looking for another mule.  

Maybe we should write a book "How to use mule"
Sincerely
Olga    

[I/O]

I think there is both "Needy Mule Jockeys" and "Greedy Mule Jockeys", I won't comment as to whether or not the sum of the two are in the majority or the minority. 

What I do think is important, in my opinion, the "Greedy Mule Jockey" is the more dangerous of the two.  The Needy are usually not too difficult to spot, even fairly early, but Ms Greedy can be a well camouflaged animal.

I would never say that good partners do not exist amoung the "Needy" group, but it does warrent caution.  I would say that good partners never exist amoungst the "Greedy" group....!!


I/O

[LEGAL]

I/O Very good even though either way it is a very sad and painful experience for all who would be involved...  Olga and I agree with you whole heartedly

Because of this, Olga said in one of her previous post "good luck and be careful" to newbies and all who begin to get experience looking for FSU brides

                               Sincerely
                               Olga & LEGAL

[Jumper]

I'm sorry
 but have any of you people been to an actual FSU village? have you left the cities other than to visit your "significant others" dacha?
 Have any of you spent any time in a village with  girl who was  born raised and still living in an FSU villiage?

This thread seems to have missed a HUGE point.
or else its miss titled??

perhaps BIG cities verses provincial cities is more apt?

There is really only ONE major humongous GAPPING glaring cultural difference between *western* and the FSU..
and that is the vast difference in low/middle/upper class populations spreads between the *cities*
 and the rural/country or *village*
this effects everything in education, lifestyle etc.
you will find NO middle class living in a FSU *village*
noone well educated..its just incredibly unlikely.

go to a large city (even provincial ) in the FSU..
it will be fundanmentally the same as a small to large western city in its oppurtunities/ modern conveniences /lifestyle.

now go to a village of 2000 in the FSU.
then visit my small town USA. (2200)

there is no comparison whatsoever.

my little village has of all things elect /water / seweage system/ garbage disposal.. road maintence/snow removal/ city maintence of the downtown district, a zilion churcxhe sand just as many bars /3 or 4 major car dealerships , grocery stores ,bowkling alley, lots of resturants, ,, half a dozen fast food chains,,
  and lots of local business. hardware stores, dress shops, carpe tplaces, appliances, a couple motels, the list is endless..   
and
VERY  typical of rural USA (west)

and many middle or even upper middle class.. a few subdivisions of what many would consider *wealthy* even..
and really noone truly destitute or poor.

now please go and actually stay in a FSU village of the same population,
get back to me and tell me any of you are dating a girl from an actual village.
(not that they arnt good people, its just none of you are dating them )

a village there is like stepping back in time , 100 years.
maybe more. i'm seriuos.
it has few if any normal conveniences, and lucky to have elect and water.

In that culture people from a true village are certainly looked down upon, do not kid yourself.
They are thought of as less, much less,
and as very uneducated farmers, no more.

the population migrates to the cities , wether provincial or capitols,, the bigger the better.
That is the culture.it is FUNDAMENTAL within that culture.

That is a bit different than here.

they do not move away from the city center ,
to commute from the suburbs..
the city center is where to be! 


if you are really debating  wether to date a gitrl from a village or a city,,.
its insane.

while you might find a truly nice girl (person) in the villages..
logistically how would it even  happen?
you are not going to be finding her on some website..
or likely going to find her walking down the village street as you stroll about in thier lovely parks.. 
where would you be staying? there are no flats to rent or motels..

the odds of you finding a very VERY desparate individual would increase substantially as most villagers are very very poor.
and to be honest any attractive girl with any wits about her has already found a way to be in the city.
 
I really think you guys are debating provincial cities vs a big city.

and those lifestyle and social differences  are not so significant or great as the differences between village and city..


you absolutely cannot equate a
typical debate of
USA city girl vs Farmers daughter

to some abstract comparison of a 
FSU city girl vs village girl

the cultural gaps are much much different and FAR greater..   



bottom line:
MOST RW that cares for her husband can live and function in what would be normal for her in  a small town or  US city.

you will find VERY VERY few if any  RW that would agree to relocate from her big FSU city, or provincial FSU city, to a FSU village..
the thought would just be ridiculas to most..
visit the dacha yes,

marry a man from an FSU village and move there to permantantly live with him there. noway.

 
   



   

[I/O]

AJ In fact I suspect you are quite right regarding the title of this thread and have given your view of "Village Life" which I have little or no arguement with. (Generally speaking)  However I notice you use "FSU".  I am not trying to be a smart arse here, but rather a legitimate question, that is how much of the FSU are you including in your description? 

My reason for this question, is that certainly your description is accurate for some countries within the FSU but it does not apply to all countries by a very long shot.  Clarification....Oiy..!!

I/O

[Jumper]

good point I/O-

FSU covers too much ground geofrraphically/culturaly.. lol


i was only refering to *FSU village* in the more general terms of countries guys would be most likely (or possibly) be looking into?

Russia proper/ kazakastan /uzbekestan/
Ukraine  etc..



not many are going to places like czech rep , etc..

[I/O]

good point I/O- FSU covers too much ground geofrraphically/culturaly.. lol

i was only refering to *FSU village* in the more general terms of countries guys would be most likely (or possibly) be looking into?

Russia proper/ kazakastan /uzbekestan/
Ukraine  etc..
not many are going to places like czech rep , etc..

Hmm  Well "Russia Proper" is actually a very small part of the "Russian Federation".  Nevertheless, I see where you are coming from. 

Rename your reply heading to what ever you think it should be.   (Metro/Regional)..?

not many are going to places like czech rep , etc..

Bullsh!t    You been to Prague/Kishinev/Bucharest/Budapest/Sofia etc etc etc recently?  Maybe not North Americans.  There is an awful lot of boys from Western Europe freaquent the FSU also, I would hazzard a guess, far more from there than from North America and Austalasia combined and it is worth remembering that these guys from Europe are pretty sharp boys and a lot closer culturally than non European visitors. 

Competition is hotting up over there now.


I/O

[IAmZon]

Competition is good and true.

Anything else would breed compromise.  And what happens when the environment does not necessitate compromise?

I/O, regarding Romanians ... I have witnessed that there is a callousness, a "street smart" as you say.  Does you r experience reveal any positives characteristics?  I like the fact that the language is based on Latin.  I like the fact that the country is being granted EU status.  These are big positives.

[I/O]

Competition is good and true.

Anything else would breed compromise.  And what happens when the environment does not necessitate compromise?

I/O, regarding Romanians ... I have witnessed that there is a callousness, a "street smart" as you say.  Does you r experience reveal any positives characteristics?  I like the fact that the language is based on Latin.  I like the fact that the country is being granted EU status.  These are big positives.

"Callousness" is going far further than I would and in fact I think that is being a bit tough, but if you ask the Moldovans, they will probably go further. No love lost between the two it seems.

Yes of course, lots of positives.  Easy to travel around, transport fair to acceptable.  Roads not bad. (Generally speaking) People were open and friendly enough as far as I was concerned, but I havn't found much of a problem in that respect anywhere.  (Enigmatic Aussie accent can have it's uses) many many attractive and eloquent ladies.  Certainly one could do worse than search in Romania.  Bucharest is a fairly easy place to meet people as there is lots of bars and cafe's and such around the centre and plenty of foreigners there, so chat company is easy enough to find.  The park in central with all it's summer bars and cafe's is fertile hunting ground.

I/O