2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)

[BillyB]

The 24 pages is not the fact sheet for recipients/caregivers. It is the one for providers.

http://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

It clearly states:

So of course those that receive the vaccine should receive the information for whatever vaccine they receive.  The fact sheets are 6 pages.

Moderna http://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download

Pfizer http://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

Janssen http://www.fda.gov/media/146305/download


These folks are not profiting from the vaccine, nor do they mention specific products.  Maybe go through the process yourself and see what kind of information is given to you or not instead of dismissing truth outright, based on no knowledge.  After you have received the information from those holding syringes, you can always say you don't want it.  No one will twist your arm.  Give it a try and let us know how it went.  If there were any lapses, or you felt you were not properly informed, you can do your civil duty and take it up with those leading the effort at your chosen location.

So the paperwork that people receiving the vaccine doesn't say "Risks and benefits of the vaccine aren't known?" By omitting that statement, people are less educated and are more likely to allow the vaccine to be injected into their body. More unethical behavior from our government and our medical community but you want us to continue to listen to their 'expert' advice.


Did you watch the second video in my previous link where Dr. Yeadon he says scientific peer review journals have been bought by special interest and scientists today are pressured to say certain things otherwise they won't get grants? Whether it's pertaining to vaccines or global warming, I figured that out before the Dr. made the statement.

These folks are not profiting from the vaccine, nor do they mention specific products.  Maybe go through the process yourself and see what kind of information is given to you or not instead of dismissing truth outright, based on no knowledge.  After you have received the information from those holding syringes, you can always say you don't want it.  No one will twist your arm.  Give it a try and let us know how it went.  If there were any lapses, or you felt you were not properly informed, you can do your civil duty and take it up with those leading the effort at your chosen location.

The executives who own stock in companies that manufacture vaccines got filthy rich. Moderna stock multiplied by over 10 in a year. Those companies aren't giving away the vaccines for free and losing money. WE are paying for it. I am doing my civil duty by warning civilians about the dangers and unknowns and debating those like yourself who promote vaccines without having a full grasp of the truth. Talking to a low level medical nurse giving out jabs won't change anything except her mind. Time better spent spreading info on the internet but millions of people on social media are getting suppressed or censored if they have an anti vaccination post. Free speech is only free if you agree with them.

[BC]

So the paperwork that people receiving the vaccine doesn't say "Risks and benefits of the vaccine aren't known?" By omitting that statement, people are less educated and are more likely to allow the vaccine to be injected into their body. More unethical behavior from our government and our medical community but you want us to continue to listen to their 'expert' advice.

No, it does not.

It states:

based on the totality of the scientific evidence available showing that the product may
be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and
potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product.

And is the official position of the FDA EUA's I provided you up thread.  I guess you missed or skipped that part.

[BC]

Did you watch the second video in my previous link where Dr. Yeadon he says scientific peer review journals have been bought by special interest and scientists today are pressured to say certain things otherwise they won't get grants? Whether it's pertaining to vaccines or global warming, I figured that out before the Dr. made the statement.

There is some corruption in every system, but that doesn't mean every system is corrupt (your current stance).

[BillyB]

No, it does not.

It states:

based on the totality of the scientific evidence available showing that the product may
be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and
potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product.

And is the official position of the FDA EUA's I provided you up thread.  I guess you missed or skipped that part.

That was a statement they made as early as last year in December. After more studies came out, they lost confidence in the vaccines so they revised the documents to say "risks and benefits are unknown." Later they might revise it again to say "We really F'd up. Warning! Don't take experimental vaccines for obvious reasons".

[BC]

Or they might say the vaccine is far safer and much more effective than expected.

You are drawing conclusions without any substantiation.  Sorta like rear ending another car and looking in the owners manual to try and find the cause.

[BillyB]

Or they might say the vaccine is far safer and much more effective than expected.
 

You are drawing conclusions without any substantiation. The FDA says the risks and benefits of the vaccine are unknown. Trust the science BC. The real science probably deserves a much harsher statement because they don't want to scare people but I'll settle for "the risks and benefits of the vaccine are unknown".

[Trenchcoat]

In the UK today nearly 16,000 infections for yesterday, 19 deaths and about 1,500 people in hospital on ventilators. There's been about twenty something deaths for the past few days and they are apparently recorded as people dying from the virus within 28 days of transmission becoming apparent.

So not really sure who are filling up all the ventilator beds and dying, people who have had the vaccine, one dose or two? Or people that refused to get the vaccine?

Young adults will have only had one vaccine so far so don't know if it's them or younger still or whether it's older people who have had the vaccine with underlying health problems. Little seems to have been reported on who is those people are on ventilators or dying but we don't seem quite clear of it yet.

[BC]

You are drawing conclusions without any substantiation. The FDA says the risks and benefits of the vaccine are unknown. Trust the science BC. The real science probably deserves a much harsher statement because they don't want to scare people but I'll settle for "the risks and benefits of the vaccine are unknown".

Raising a possibility is not drawing a conclusion.

As to what the FDA said on 10 June:

Among the requirements for issuing Emergency Use Authorizations:

Based on the totality of scientific evidence available, including data from adequate and
well-controlled trials, if available, it is reasonable to believe that the product may be
effective to prevent, diagnose, or treat such serious or life-threatening disease or
condition that can be caused by SARS-CoV-2, or to mitigate a serious or life-threatening
disease or condition caused by an FDA-regulated product used to diagnose, treat, or
prevent a disease or condition caused by SARS-CoV-2.

The known and potential benefits of the product, when used to diagnose, prevent, or
treat the identified serious or life-threatening disease or condition, outweigh the known
and potential risks of the product.

http://www.fda.gov/media/149935/download

All vaccines must meet these FDA requirements in order to receive an EUA.

End of the line BillyB.

[Faux Pas]

In the UK today nearly 16,000 infections for yesterday, 19 deaths and about 1,500 people in hospital on ventilators. There's been about twenty something deaths for the past few days and they are apparently recorded as people dying from the virus within 28 days of transmission becoming apparent.

So not really sure who are filling up all the ventilator beds and dying, people who have had the vaccine, one dose or two? Or people that refused to get the vaccine?

Young adults will have only had one vaccine so far so don't know if it's them or younger still or whether it's older people who have had the vaccine with underlying health problems. Little seems to have been reported on who is those people are on ventilators or dying but we don't seem quite clear of it yet.

They're lying to you

[Trenchcoat]

They're lying to you

Possibly, will find out soon I guess.

[BillyB]

Raising a possibility is not drawing a conclusion.

As to what the FDA said on 10 June:

Among the requirements for issuing Emergency Use Authorizations:

http://www.fda.gov/media/149935/download

All vaccines must meet these FDA requirements in order to receive an EUA.

End of the line BillyB.

That is a June 10, 2021 meeting among themselves. That is not a public statement. They talk about the Dec 2020 finding noting benefits outweigh the risks. The revised public statement from the FDA says risks and benefits are unknown.


Why are you hellbent on promoting an experimental product that you know little about and that could cause a mass depopulation event? The experts I posted here seen with their own eyes experimental vaccines compromising immunity systems of lab animals that led to premature death. They know what they are talking about. They won't guarantee it happening but they know it can happen.


We have adequate treatments available that reduces people's chances to die to nearly 0%. There is no risk from those treatments to cause a mass depopulation event like what could happen from an experimental vaccine. The current strategy should be vaccinating elderly and the sick and allowing people's own natural immune system build up an immunity to the virus since they have almost a 0% chance to die from COVID. Medical experts successfully beat ALL pandemics and epidemics in the past without using the strategy of vaccinating healthy people with experimental unproven vaccines.

[Trenchcoat]

Apparently most new cases happening in children and young people according to this Doctor/report:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-57599849

The previous original virus didn't effect children and young people much at all for the most part but apparently the variants do. Children and young people not currently Vaccinated of course, even some of those aged over 18 in their twenties won't be. Whether it is children & young people making up those on ventilators in hospital and dying still seems to be information not forthcoming at the moment it seems, at least here in the UK.

Here is an article that goes into the more highly transmissible Delta/Indian variant and it's spread from India to the UK and now to the US:

http://deadline.com/feature/coronavirus-deaths-united-states-1202874446/

It too details how children and young people are now more susceptible and at risk than older people who have been vaccinated.

[Trenchcoat]

Some issues with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines reported here:

http://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1635

Apparently a few people getting heart inflammation after taking the vaccine, mainly in young people it seems, but of course not many considering the numbers taking the vaccine.

[BillyB]

UK government health report. Pay attention to pages 13 and 14. 7200 people with two doses of vaccines got the Delta variant and 50 of those people died. 53,800 unvaccinated people got the Delta variant and 44 people died. 13,700 people with one dose of vaccine got the Delta variant and only 19 people died. Do the math. People with less or no vaccine have a higher chance of surviving the Delta variant. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996740/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf


Israel has the highest percentage of their population vaccinated yet they are getting ill from another virus as if they were in Winter. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

http://www.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-be-over-but-viral-infections-in-israel-are-surging-671354

[Trenchcoat]

UK government health report. Pay attention to pages 13 and 14. 7200 people with two doses of vaccines got the Delta variant and 50 of those people died. 53,800 unvaccinated people got the Delta variant and 44 people died. 13,700 people with one dose of vaccine got the Delta variant and only 19 people died. Do the math. People with less or no vaccine have a higher chance of surviving the Delta variant. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996740/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf


Israel has the highest percentage of their population vaccinated yet they are getting ill from another virus as if they were in Winter. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

http://www.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-be-over-but-viral-infections-in-israel-are-surging-671354

On the face of it the figures don't look good for those that have been vaccinated I agree, but these figures just show those who have tested positive for the virus. It's likely that many of those vaccinated would have either not caught the virus because the vaccine protected them or had the virus but knew nothing off it, otherwise the numbers in the vaccine columns as testing positive right at the top of the table would have been far more as at that point at least half or more of the population would have been vaccinated.

It might be assumed that those who died or hospitalised possibly on ventilators would have done so anyway vaccine or not. Some people's health is so frail because of underlying health conditions or obesity so they are kind of on the edge anyway.

This report is pretty handy for getting an idea of who is dying from the current Delta/Indian variant and those that might be on ventilators. Looks like all ages can still be at risk though with both jabs mainly the elderly at risk of dying probably due to old age underlying health problems at a guess. My guess is also those in hospital on ventilators both young & old either more susceptible immune system/genes or poor health/underlying health conditions.

A good early insight I think so handy to know probably have to see what the news reporters find out when they get to it.

[Trenchcoat]

Here's some Sky News graphs on it all so far:

http://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/uk-reports-18-270-new-covid-cases-the-highest-since-5-february-12342395?usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D&amp_js_v=0.1

Doesn't tell us the state of the people dying/hospitalised if underlying symptoms but tends to show the virus isn't effecting us as much overall as it did. Hopefully we'll get some more news soon.

[BC]

UK government health report. Pay attention to pages 13 and 14. 7200 people with two doses of vaccines got the Delta variant and 50 of those people died. 53,800 unvaccinated people got the Delta variant and 44 people died. 13,700 people with one dose of vaccine got the Delta variant and only 19 people died. Do the math. People with less or no vaccine have a higher chance of surviving the Delta variant. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996740/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf

BillyB,

Your proven ability to mangle words and language is only surpassed by your ability to misinterpret the data presented.

Your ASSessment of the data provided in the report is, to put it bluntly, completely wrong.

Should you have any doubt as to my assertion, please do contact the authors of the report, or a competent statistical analyst.  In consideration of your difficulty comprehending the written word, I'm not even going to try and attempt to guide you through even more complex issues.

[BillyB]

It's likely that many of those vaccinated would have either not caught the virus because the vaccine protected them or had the virus but knew nothing off it, otherwise the numbers in the vaccine columns as testing positive right at the top of the table would have been far more as at that point at least half or more of the population would have been vaccinated.

Covid vaccines have a high rate of efficacy. They lose some efficacy on variants but efficacy is still high. But so far, according to the data coming out of the UK from over 92,000 people infected by the Delta variant, those that taken two doses have a much higher rate of death compared to those who are not vaccinated. If the vaccine isn't protecting people, it's more likely to allow the virus to pass defenses and kill them.


The three vaccine experts I posted about talks about the very subject of people's immune system getting compromised by an experimental vaccine which in turn causes mass depopulation. They probably seen more than enough dead lab animals to understand this can happen.


So while most vaccinated people are protected against COVID and its variants, the vaccine certainly won't be able to protect them from other unrelated pathogens. Covid vaccinated people may have a much higher rate of dying from influenza or a bacterial infection compared to unvaccinated people. If a person's immune system is compromised by the vaccine, they'll carry the problem for life. Life expectancy will go down. The only benefit is governments won't need to pay out pensions as long. Time will tell if they gave us a vaccine or a poison.

BillyB,

Your proven ability to mangle words and language is only surpassed by your ability to misinterpret the data presented.

Your ASSessment of the data provided in the report is, to put it bluntly, completely wrong.

Should you have any doubt as to my assertion, please do contact the authors of the report, or a competent statistical analyst.  In consideration of your difficulty comprehending the written word, I'm not even going to try and attempt to guide you through even more complex issues.

Don't be shy, enlighten us with your interpretation of the data. Insults aren't going to convince people you're right and I'm wrong.

[BC]

Israel has the highest percentage of their population vaccinated yet they are getting ill from another virus as if they were in Winter. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

http://www.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-be-over-but-viral-infections-in-israel-are-surging-671354

Did you even read the full article, BillyB?

Snir noted that after the year of the pandemic, it is not surprising that these diseases are reappearing.  “We did not see them during the winter because we were wearing masks and because of the lockdowns, but they are normal viruses,” she said.

You are again totally misrepresenting the facts.

[BC]

Don't be shy, enlighten us with your interpretation of the data. Insults aren't going to convince people you're right and I'm wrong.

Nope. You made the assertion of fact. It's your turn to do your homework.

I will give you a tip though, start on page 38 "Monitoring of vaccine effectiveness" and test your extraordinary hypothesis using simple logic.

[BillyB]

Nope. You made the assertion of fact. It's your turn to do your homework.

I will give you a tip though, start on page 38 "Monitoring of vaccine effectiveness" and test your extraordinary hypothesis using simple logic.

I'm not talking about vaccine effectiveness and I can admit vaccines are effective against COVID. I can admit benefits but it seems you can't admit risks.


2+2=4 right? Go to pages 13 and 14 and use the numbers there to try and convince everybody vaccinated people aren't dying at a higher rate than those vaccinated. It's not happening the way you want so you're visibly upset. You want to believe the stuff you injected into your body is great stuff so you reject anything bad said, even if it came from top experts in the industry.

[BC]

BillyB

Just for entertainment purposes:

Of 8475 over 50 that tested positive for the Delta variant that had contact with the ER:
7499 vaccinated people over 50
976 unvaccinated people over 50

109 over 50 and vaccinated died 1.45%
38 unvaccinated died 3.89%


For 72539 under 50 that tested positive for the Delta variant

19693 vaccinated under 50
52846 unvaccinated under 50

2 vaccinated died .01%
6 unvaccinated died .01%

Now of course you'll certainly find some other excuse, but barring any gross error in my calculations you'll have to contact the authors of the report to validate your hypothesis.  Their full contact information is on the last page of the report.  Since the report was not intended to assess vaccine safety, the manner in which I have assessed the raw data may not be representative, and is only used for the purposes of example which you *might* understand.  My intent is not to misuse data, as you clearly do.

[Trenchcoat]

Covid vaccines have a high rate of efficacy. They lose some efficacy on variants but efficacy is still high. But so far, according to the data coming out of the UK from over 92,000 people infected by the Delta variant, those that taken two doses have a much higher rate of death compared to those who are not vaccinated. If the vaccine isn't protecting people, it's more likely to allow the virus to pass defenses and kill them.


The three vaccine experts I posted about talks about the very subject of people's immune system getting compromised by an experimental vaccine which in turn causes mass depopulation. They probably seen more than enough dead lab animals to understand this can happen.


So while most vaccinated people are protected against COVID and its variants, the vaccine certainly won't be able to protect them from other unrelated pathogens. Covid vaccinated people may have a much higher rate of dying from influenza or a bacterial infection compared to unvaccinated people. If a person's immune system is compromised by the vaccine, they'll carry the problem for life. Life expectancy will go down. The only benefit is governments won't need to pay out pensions as long. Time will tell if they gave us a vaccine or a poison.





Don't be shy, enlighten us with your interpretation of the data. Insults aren't going to convince people you're right and I'm wrong.

Well at this point the figures in the table are just figures they don't really say why those people died whether their health was too weak vaccine it not or whether their immune system had been compromised. We'll have to wait and see for further comment from government, health workers, scientists as to why some people who had taken the vaccine and both doses were still dying.

The fact that all people dying who had taken 2 doses were over 55 is an interesting statistic. My guess was that these were due to poor health in old age although it could of course be due to another reason.

The stats show in general I think we can surmise that far less people who had the vaccine than those unvaccinated had any trouble as the unvaccinated I think we can safely assume appeared in the results in greater number, 53 thousand odd reported cases. So for most people to date it is probably fair to say the vaccine gives greater protection than without but possibly not for all people perhaps.

Today in the UK yesterday there were nearly 18 thousand infections so growing infection rate and 23 deaths. So deaths keep on rolling in and we assumed the vaccine would pretty much stop all deaths after vaccination I think it is fair to say even with the variants since we were told a few weeks/months ago that it would stop serious cases, etc. So it does look as though the vaccines are not quite as effective against the variants as hoped for everybody. The big question remains why?

[BC]

Trench,

the vaccine may not stop all infections, but does prepare the body to fight it off more effectively. For a few percent, the vaccine may not be effective. The data seems to represent that.  As long as deaths stay at a low level, things are going in the right direction. Who knows how many of those that die were vaccinated, but a few, unfortunately, do.

http://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/covid-breakthrough-cases-cdc-says-more-than-4100-people-have-been-hospitalized-or-died-after-vaccination.html

[Trenchcoat]

Trench,

the vaccine may not stop all infections, but does prepare the body to fight it off more effectively. For a few percent, the vaccine may not be effective. The data seems to represent that.  As long as deaths stay at a low level, things are going in the right direction. Who knows how many of those that die were vaccinated, but a few, unfortunately, do.

http://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/covid-breakthrough-cases-cdc-says-more-than-4100-people-have-been-hospitalized-or-died-after-vaccination.html

Indeed, my guess is that we still have a number of weeks ahead of us while this Delta variant makes its way through the population. Deaths are likely to climb a bit more on the twenty something we presently have maybe towards a hundred a day but probably I'm guessing not more than that for the UK. So really just a case of sit tight and ride this one out then hope that following variants aren't as bad then hopefully the situation improving sometime after that. My guess is that poorer nations and those with large populations like India will keep the problem going on longer through not being able to vaccinate their population sufficiently then potentially allowing mutations and exporting these variants abroad.