RW and their adult children

[Russophile]

I am coming out of 'lurker' mode to ask the august assemblage of RW afficionados a question.  I have recovered enough financially and psychologically from the traumatic experiences with  RW in the past to resume the search.  I am 57 years old, and I will be looking for a woman 40+.  I already have 8 children and will not be looking to increase the size of my list of dependents.  The woman I will be looking for will probably have 1 or more adult children (18+). My questions to those of you with knowledge or experience in this area is:  How do RW feel about going to America and leaving their children behind?  What issues will likely arise that must be dealt with? 

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

Russophile

[PeeWee]

I am coming out of 'lurker' mode to ask the august assemblage of RW afficionados a question.  I have recovered enough financially and psychologically from the traumatic experiences with  RW in the past to resume the search.  I am 57 years old, and I will be looking for a woman 40+.  I already have 8 children and will not be looking to increase the size of my list of dependents.  The woman I will be looking for will probably have 1 or more adult children (18+). My questions to those of you with knowledge or experience in this area is:  How do RW feel about going to America and leaving their children behind?  What issues will likely arise that must be dealt with? 

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

Russophile

I'll bet that the answer will be dependent on the woman. If her children are married they may remain. If if married then they may migrate with mom. I suspect that sometimes the reason for the mirgration stems from the woman wanting to make a better life for her children. In that case they would of course come with her. This sounds like a discussion that needs to happen before you marry her. I had always assumed that the unmarried children would immigrate with their mother. The last three RW that I dated who had child had all planned on having child come with.

Peevee

[Elen]

I was told that they could migrate only if they were under 21 (and unmarried) Did I got it right?

[Bruno]

I was told that they could migrate only if they were under 21 (and unmarried) Did I got it right?

Don't know for US but here in Belgium, the "regroupment familial" is allowed to family members at the first degree ( it mean father, mother, brother and sister, children ) BUT the person who make the procedure need to show enough income... a rich people will be able to migrate a full familly and a poor one wil not be able to obtain a marriage visa for his bride...

[Turboguy]

I think a lot of them don't feel they are leaving their family permanently.  I am not saying they expect to move back.

I think most with children plan to bring their children with them unless their kids are settled in their own life.  I also believe the children are often a factor in their decision.  They want a better life for their kids.  In the case of a woman with a son under 17 or so, I think some of the motivation might be to get them out of the mandatory military service.

[beattledog]

No, you do not need more children.  You have enough to support.  I have found that most of the  women with children, desire that their children, regardless of their age, and marital status, desire that they follow them to the country of the man that they married .

beattledog

[Russophile]

Thanks for your responses so far.  As I understand current US Immigration laws, unmarried children of RW over the age of 21 do not get to come to America with their mother under the K-1 visa.  They are considered independent persons and must emigrate on their own merits.  The dilemma I see in the future is whether a RW with adult children will be willing to leave them behind to start a new life in America.  In America we raise our children much differently than Russians.  We teach them to be independent and to be able to support themselves financially as much as possible and leave home soon after the age of 18.  I did that with my first 7 children and I expect my youngest daughter (age 12) to move out and support herself when she graduates from high school.  Russians seem to want to keep their children dependent forever.  This prompts the original question:  Will a RW with unmarried children over the age of 21 be willing to leave them behind, or will I be expected to sponsor and finance the emigration of those children to America in the future?

This also prompts a second question:  My experience and those of friends I know who have gone through it indicate that the older a dependent child of a RW, the poorer the success of that child in adapting to the American culture.  What has been your experience?

[jb]

Russ,

They are considered independent persons and must emigrate on their own merits.

This is not necessarily true, once the RW spouse has her Permanent GC and/or American citizenship, she can independantly file an I-130 on behalf of an immediate family member, i.e., her own children.  I believe if you marry a RW with older children, sooner or later you will have the whole kaboodle with you.  A Russian mother will never abandon her children, nor will she ever give up on the hope of having her family close to her.  As the head of the family you will be expected to help these new immigrants get established in their new life in the USA.

'Sway it is.

[Russophile]

Thanks, Jb, you have succinctly stated the information I was looking for.  With that information I can more intelligently plan my search.


Russophile

[jb]

De nada, that's why I'm here.

[jb]

This little thread gives an opening to a much larger question about immigration in general.  Specifically, how does a non-native go about emigrating to the USA in the first place.

If you can,,, imagine a very large hall filled with millions of people wishing to emigrate to the USA.  Now imagine, if you can, how would you organize these people into lines of priority, who gets in first, and who goes to the end of which line. 

There are many different lines in this hall, and some people get advanced to the head of, or sent to the back of, some very long, long, long lines.  Others go directly into relatively short lines.  All of these lines are prioritized with two objectives in mind: a.) the needs of the country, and b.) the needs of the citizen.  One of the shortest lines is for exceptionally well and highly qualified scientists, the USA needs these people and encourages them to emigrate.  If, for example,  Dr. Ivanochov, PhD, (not a real person) the head of a science department at a well respected FSU University, decided he would like to come to live and work in the US, he'd be rushed to the head of a very short line.  A Polish bricklayer, by the same measure, would be waiting for a very long time at the end of an even longer line.

One of the absolute shortest lines is reserved for the immediate family relatives of US citizens.  All non-citizens are aware of this line.  Some years ago the US Congress passed an Amnesty Bill as a solution for the million or so illegal immigrants from Mexico.  Guess what happened???  As soon as they had their documents in hand, they brought over their families,,, legally~!  And the population of non-English speaking residents increased four fold.  The illegal immigrant problem was not solved, it was exacerbated... By about 5 million new people who immediately went on welfare.

Every man who thinks about marriage to a foreign national should consider this aspect carefully.  Once she gets her citizenship, she has prepared a landing strip for her entire immediate family,,, mother, father, brothers and sisters, even her aging babuska,,, and in Russophile's case, her adult children.

It's something to consider.

[Russophile]

Thanks for your additional insight, Olga.  I wish we had more RW on the forums.  All this testosterone opining about affairs of the heart makes it difficult to get to the true facts of important issues. 

I just don't want to be put in a position where I am expected to finance and support an adult child of my RW spouse until they either catch on to the American way of life or give up and go back to FSU.  Integrating the RW into my life will be challenging enough.  Ideally, I would like to find a woman with a daughter about the same age as my daughter (12) or younger.  But to do so I would have to be  dipping into the pool of women that are generally 20+ years younger than me.  That creates a whole new realm of challenges

Russophile

[BC]

Integrating the RW into my life will be challenging enough.  Ideally, I would like to find a woman with a daughter about the same age as my daughter (12) or younger.  But to do so I would have to be  dipping into the pool of women that are generally 20+ years younger than me.  That creates a whole new realm of challenges

Russophile

Am 10 years younger than you with a 12 year old daughter.. Just my personal opin but seems you're looking not only at challenge but trouble as well.

[Russophile]

Which trouble are you specifically referring to, BC, the wife 20+ years younger or the 12 yr old girl?

[Vaughn]

Russophile,

 I'm a year younger than you. In November 2002 I brought
over my wife (then 39) and stepdaughter (then 14). My own
two daughters were 12 and 16 - the ensuing dynamic was by
far the most difficult challenge of our transition, and so I second
BC's thought. Perhaps having fathered eight kids yourself,
your parenting skills are finely honed - I myself learned lessons
in dividing my time such that the "new girl on the block" felt
loved and welcome while the original girls felt loved, secure and
unabandoned when the "accented" one took over a bedroom
upstairs. Tricky stuff, at least for me....

  I also have noticed the family migration trend that jb so
correctly portrayed, although it may not be as apparent at
the outset of a K-1 situation. A few years back, my MIL had
to wonder hard about even visiting America. Then she did,
but without English and her familiar routines and culture, she
expressed no desire to move here. As of last week, the tide
has changed - she's 66, about to unload the garden for a
small sum as none of the grandkids are interested in helping out,
and missing Elvira and our daughter Lenara. I might have denied
the possibility earlier but now its foreseeable and likely....

Vaughn

[Russophile]

Vaughn,

Thanks for the info.  I understand some of the challenges.  Five years ago I had a UW and her 6yr old daughter over here on a K-1 visa.  My daughter was 7 at the time.  Dealing with Katya was a challenge.  She was spoiled to the extreme (had never heard the word, "NO").  However, after 2.5 months we had the bumps pretty well smoothed out and I loved that little girl as my own.  Her mother was a different story.  She turned out to be a classic visa whore and I had to buy her a ticket home before I strangled her.  Sure hated to send that little girl away, tho....

[BC]

Which trouble are you specifically referring to, BC, the wife 20+ years younger or the 12 yr old girl?

Russophile,

Specifically with:

Ideally, I would like to find a woman with a daughter about the same age as my daughter (12) or younger.

Even though you have a good deal of experience with kids don't underestimate the effects  of sibling rivalry multiplied by a factor of 10.  Add differing parental views regarding discipline and punishment, normal tendencies a parent to favor their own biological child and depending on the childs background maybe even a few visits to a good psychologist for all down the road.

Many men regard children as a minor aspect of the relationship simply wondering about language and school.  Believe me, it involves much much more not apparent at first sight.

I think your experience with many kids will help greatly, but am confident your parenting skills will be tested to the limit.  At 42 having raised 3 kids previously, it was tough enough.  I could not imagine taking on this task ten or more years later.

Certainly not a dealbreaker and can in fact be a very rewarding experience for those up to the challenge.  If the difficulty factor with a RW is 1, the difficulty factor with a RW with child will be 2.5.  To be quite candid I believe you are looking at a factor of at least 3.

[Russophile]

Thanks for the opinion, BC.  I have never had a problem with sibling rivalry with my own kids and I don't see that as a problem with a Russian kid near my daughter's age.  Vaughn has given the key for cross cultural sibling harmony in his reply above.

However, I do believe that any AM is nuts not to have a bilingual relationship counselor available when he marries a RW, especially if there are kids involved.  My experience is that Russian kids seem to have been raised on a different planet.  Among those men I know who have had failed relationships with RW, the kids were a huge factor, especially if the kids were of the age of adolescence.

[Wild Orchid*]

Ideally, I would like to find a woman with a daughter about the same age as my daughter (12) or younger.  But to do so I would have to be  dipping into the pool of women that are generally 20+ years younger than me.  That creates a whole new realm of challenges

Russophile

I'm 40, one of my uni-mates has a 5 y.o. daughter, another 2 yers old girl.

[Phil dAmore]

Remember this always... ALWAYS!!!! :

No matter how much she loves YOU she will ALWAYS love her own children more no matter how old those children are.

These 'children' can be married and have kids of their own... все равно!!. 

I would be very suspect of a woman who was willing to walk away from her adult children... it's just not something they do under normal circumstances.

8 kids?   Are you a rabbit? :hairraising:

[Patrick]

Wow Phil you sure said a mouth full there. I would not expect a woman to walk away from her children at anytime. I have a mom to bring over ASAP.
  What is strange is that my oldest daughter has walked away from me. My son is happy and all for me being happy and having a good marrage. My daughter on the other hand is not a happy woman at all. She has not spoken to me in 10 months and it looks like she has no plans to do so in the future.
  I guess that the fact that I have a 15 year old son and a 5 year old daughter is just too much for her to take at this point in her life. This gives me 5 children and there is room for more. I like kids and always have . They give me a reason to do what I do to make a living and not go crazy setting at home.

[beattledog]

Children are not a minor item in a relationship.  A man should always expect the woman to have a close relationship with her children.  If it does not think this, he  should reconsider the relationship

sad beattledog

[Russophile]

Hey Phil,

I am not a rabbit.  However the word, 'stud' has been spoken in my direction at times in the past   The truth is, some of us like children and are good parents.  All of my adult children are college-educated and productive citizens in their communities.  Non of them have been in jail or ever used drugs.  I don't apologize for any of them.

I will second your comment on RW and their children.  Any RW who has to make a choice between you and her kid will always go with the kid.  Any WM who contemplated marrying a RW with a child (especially one in adolescence) should think long and hard BEFORE they marry about all the possible problems that will inevitably arise.

[beattledog]

Yes, the RW will always go with the kid.  With this statement, I agree.

Hopeful beattledog

[Wild Orchid*]

I will second your comment on RW and their children.  Any RW who has to make a choice between you and her kid will always go with the kid. 

And what would you expect, keeping in mind that she and her kid are in foreign country?. Would AW abandon her child and go with the man?