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Author Topic: Assumptions We Make  (Read 40304 times)

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Offline jb

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Assumptions We Make
« on: July 30, 2005, 07:00:25 AM »
I read these topics and posts from a lot of the unmarried searchers, and many times I'm left scratching my head.  I wonder where some of these guys are coming from and I'm quite certain it ain't from my neighborhood.

I'm sitting here, with the benefit of about four years of marriage to a wonderful RW under my belt, does that make me an expert on matters of the heart?   Not hardly, but I do have a certain level of experience with the fairer sex of the Eastern European persurasion, for what that's all worth.

So, let us start off by saying that when a new guy comes on to the board I make some assumptions about him and what his goals might be.  I assume he's a mature man, he's reasonably good looking, reasonably fit and trim, he's been divorced for a couple of years at least, has grown weary of the AW dating game, has a sufficent level of income, has a reasonably level head on his shoulders, and desires to begin a new life with a reasonably attractive female with like minded goals. In other words, he's good marriage material and a good candidate for success.  Those of us who've been around the block a time or two can spot the keyboard romeo in a very short time,  we tend to humor him because we know he has no chance with his dream girl if he isn't willing to get on a plane and make an investment in some trips.

Does this sound about right?  I think that describes about 99% of the successfully married guys I know.  
 
So what can happen to destroy the mental immage I have in my mind about the new guy coming to the board?  Well, the first post or two will be tentative and reveal little, but after he becomes comfortable with the crowd he begins to let his hair down a bit and we start to see the real personality behind the posts.  

It's some of the travelers I'm addressing here.  While technically they arn't newbies, they are having a hard time of it.  We start to see the danger signs when guys say things like; "I've been to the FSU X times and I've met Y number of women".  This sends alarm bells ringing in my head.  I ask myself, why,,, after, say 3-4 or 5  trips he was unable to find a nice woman?  Then the search criteria starts to unfold, we learn he wants a woman with no kids, he wants her to be within very narrow age ranges, (mostly very young), he wants her to be stunningly beautiful, slightly built, a non-smoker, non-drinker, etc., and the lists goes on.  In fact, he wants everything. If the search criteria were reversed, he himself would not pass the test of marriage material for the kind of woman he seeks.

In other words, he's being hypocritical.

I think the first thing a man should do before setting out on this road is to have a good long look at himself in the mirror and assess what he brings to the marriage table.  What sort of woman is going to be sincerely attracted to him?  I'm not going to turn this into an age related topic, but that is, of course, a consideration.

We see constantly mythology being sold as facts by the MOB agencies. Men need to understand and remember that MOB agencies are selling a product.  Just like a used car lot, most of these women being touted are models which have a few miles on them.  While the used car salesman will tell you lies about the number of miles on the odometer, the MOB agency will sell you a myth, which can be just as bad.  

One popular myth is maturity.  Men need to get it out of their heads that the FSU girls are more mature than AWs.  Men often experience troubled relationships because they expect a 20's something girl to be as mature as a 35 y.o. woman.  I think you can take it to the bank that a young woman with no life experience in Kiev is no more mentally mature than her AW sister in Cleveland.
 
The biggest myth of all is the concept that FSU women are more of a "traditional" woman.  No one has ever been able to satisfactorily explain that one to me.  Men need to get the notion firmly fixed in their brains that women are women, no matter where they come from.  Some are good wife material, while others will never be a good wife to any man.  If you pursue a young, hot, party girl in Kiev, do not expect her to change her tastes and habits once she arrives in your home town.  She's still going to be a young, hot, party girl. Can you live with that?  Mostly the answer to that would be a resounding "NO", if what you say you want is a moral, decent, devoted wife to go with your new dream family.  Then don't devote your time, energy, and resourses chasing the wrong kind of woman.

The assumptions we make are quickly destroyed when men say, even in jest, "Hey!, I'm into swinging", if that's the case, then marry a hooker and be done with it.  She's at least already used to having multiple sex partners, she'd be right at home with you.  Just don't be too surprised when she leaves you for a richer pimp.

I'm going to leave some room for the other married guys to comment and offer their views.  But there's lots more to be said on the subject of the "Assumptions we make"





Offline corncrowe

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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2005, 07:08:29 AM »
Quote from: jb
The assumptions we make are quickly destroyed when men say, even in jest, "Hey!, I'm into swinging", if that's the case, then marry a hooker and be done with it. She's at least already used to having multiple sex partners, she'd be right at home with you. Just don't be too surprised when she leaves you for a richer pimp.

JB,

Maybe I need to go back and re-read the post again.  I thought he meant "swing" like "swing dancing"?

There I go making assumptions again...but it's my "inner beauty" that seems to find the good in people.

P.S.  The last part was for Elen...

  

Jon

Offline corncrowe

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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2005, 07:14:41 AM »
[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
Quote
Pee Wee,
KenC is correct. Proceed with caution. If possible, try every position, including tantric sex. And before that, find out exactly how responsive she is, in terms of how capable she is of having orgasms - the more she can have in a short amount of time, the better. These are the important things in life and romance, so try to focus on sex and the passion of sex above all other considerations, and focus on these important elements in the first few days of meeting her, but, I guess you are already past that point. KenC is living proof of the 'value' of those concepts. He is lucky that in southern california, he is surrounded by like-minded couples, who know what romantic values are important. He has that support system. PM KenC, and he will keep you on the proper course.


Yeah, we are beyond all of it. I have already asked her is she is into swinging. I don't know if they do that in Russia but it is huge here. She must be ready for it.

 

PeeWee


---

jb,

Darn, I think you're right.  I missed this the first time.  Now as for Photo giving tips about sex, excuse me, but I have to go throw up now!!!

  

Jon

 

Offline RacerX

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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2005, 07:14:55 AM »
on the mark, jb!

I don't know exactly what you intended with this thread, but if I could inject a few thoughts, in the form of pet-peeves about posts I often read:

1.  Try to make no assumptions about the character of RW - unless you've known many, lived in the FSU for years, and are a shrewd observer of human character.  It's likely you won't be able to tell a 'traditional RW' (btw, I for one think such a species exist, and I feel I married one:) )from a prostitute.

2.  My wife is more beautiful than yours, so don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise  ;)

3.  Never say: THE Ukraine

and, oh yes, never venture into this morass without the help of a female RW advisor!

Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2005, 08:13:34 AM »
Quote from: RacerX
on the mark, jb!

I don't know exactly what you intended with this thread, but if I could inject a few thoughts, in the form of pet-peeves about posts I often read:

1. Try to make no assumptions about the character of RW - unless you've known many, lived in the FSU for years, and are a shrewd observer of human character. It's likely you won't be able to tell a 'traditional RW' (btw, I for one think such a species exist, and I feel I married one:) )from a prostitute.

2. My wife is more beautiful than yours, so don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise ;)

3. Never say: THE Ukraine

and, oh yes, never venture into this morass without the help of a female RW advisor!

Are not those assumptions about the character of an RW fostered by the agencies? Where does a guy get his first clue about why he wants to marry a FSU lady? All of the stuff he reading from the agency. The word "traditional" and its precepts are heavly laced through out the agency hype.

For me the "traditional" means a more domestic woman than an AW counterpart. I see more cooking, sewing, and fundemental parenting skills in play with the RW. I have only dated 3 but all 3 were equally adept at the domestic part, more so than I have seen in the AW that I know, aside from my mom.

For me, I like the Russian culture and attitude. I do not completely understand what is called the "Russian soul" but I think I am attracted to it. I do not think that RW have a lot over AW except that the ones that I have met seem to be more pragmatic and see to have a more realistic outlook about life. They also seem like team players, something I think is an important ingreadiant in a marriage.

 

PeeWee

 

 

Offline KenC

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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2005, 08:23:01 AM »
jb,

Nice thread.  I don't know about this though:

"I assume he's a mature man, he's reasonably good looking, reasonably fit and trim, he's been divorced for a couple of years at least, has grown weary of the AW dating game, has a sufficent level of income, has a reasonably level head on his shoulders, and desires to begin a new life with a reasonably attractive female with like minded goals. In other words, he's good marriage material and a good candidate for success".

I sincerely think that the man you describe is in the minority of all men seek a RW.  I think that this process attracts many men unfit to enable a lasting relationship with anything more than a window plant.  Guys with no relationship skills let alone any dating skills.  These guys usually get hooked into some visa shark and never know what hit them.  I have always maintained that if a man has reasonably good success in dating AW, then he will do fine in the fsu, but that the MOB agencies attract a lot of geeks, dorks and social outcasts.

KenC

 
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline ConnerVT

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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2005, 08:48:45 AM »
Great thoughts, jb.  All things that shouldn't need to be said, if you believe the paragraph that Ken singled out.  But I also agree with Ken, that man you describe is not the guy who starts out on this venture -- rather, he's the guy who is successful at it.  And that percentage is very much smaller than those who begin.

It took me quite a few years of self-improvement and re-evaluation before I began my search.  During my 'letter writing phase', I became even more aware of my objectivity.  I think this is the primary hurdle people need to get over -- remaining objective while looking for the most subjective thing in the universe.  Love.

Show me a man who can balance love and reality, and you have found a happy, successful man. :cool:

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2005, 08:59:48 AM »
jb,
As time goes on, and I get to know a number of women from the FSU, I can now see how wrong the agencies are. They do present a picture of women who are ...good for their business. A lot of what they tell us are myths.

Who are these women in the FSU? That's the big question many of us are asking. It looks to me as though there is a huge variety of personality types and values. They do have that in common with western women. The label of 'traditional' is curious. A tradition in the US may not be a tradition in Russia. 'Liberal' in Ukraine may be different from liberal in France. Our frame of reference does not help us.

As you stated, if you date a Russian party girl, she may not be the wife of your dreams. I've taken a lot of criticism for not scoring in six days with her in Ukraine, but let's admit to the fact that there are conservative slow-starters over there, who proceed with caution. I can name a number of them. And sure, there are women from the FSU who are very eager beavers. Every woman plays the game differently.  I agree with Pee Wee that there is something about their style that is more 'team player', compared with western women.

As I've said before, a woman who wants to marry a foreigner and move to another country has basically two motives: materialism and romance. It's up to you to decide exactly what her motivations are. If you have sex with her in the first week of meeting her, this can and will cloud your vision. If you get the feeling that you are her 'cure', then you may also be trying to cure her when she's your wife. When you are getting to know her, she will expect you to buy her things, gifts, etc. In her culture, this is expected. It doesn't mean she is a scammer. It's a question of degree. Be careful how much you buy her, because you do not want to base the relationship on your sugar-daddy status.

I think the majority of these women want an idealistic romance and financial security. I think they are less competitive than AW in a relationship, but that's just a generalization.

Rather than going by what agencies say about RW, I'd advise a guy to get to know as many RW as possible. Form friendships with them. Get into their heads before you get too deeply into their hearts. I could be wrong, but I think you can assume that their personalities vary more than AW. Some may be all over you like a cheap suit in minutes, while others may take time before holding hands with you in public.

As far as 'traditional' is concerned. I've been reading about how 'strong' women from the FSU are. They control family life. Or at least that is the 'tradition'. So forget about the compliant passive house-wife scenario. Almost contradicting this idea, is the quality they seem to possess of keeping things very harmonious. Harmony appears to be a major goal, rather than power and leadership. In any event, I find them to be fascinating.

Good post, jb.  

Offline jb

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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2005, 09:13:59 AM »
Ken, Conner, Fred

You've captured the essence of my thinking.  These are the traits of what the successful man will look like.  I give credit to the searcher for having the nesessary dating skills to pull it off, in other words, he is assumed to be qualified until he proves to be otherwise.

Without naming names, or being too specific, we can read the posts and figure out pretty quick who will be a success and who will fail.  

Offline RacerX

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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2005, 09:19:22 AM »
[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
Quote
I've taken a lot of criticism for not scoring in six days with her in Ukraine, but let's admit to the fact that there are conservative slow-starters over there, who proceed with caution.  


p/g: I'll let you in on a very big secret that is apparently only known to the married guys with honest wives: RW (there I go with the assumptions!) have it ingrained in them to be very conservative with men and the decent ones will never (I repeat for the hard of reading types) never have sex with you on the first visit.  Holding hands/kissing in public -  despite anything you might have heard from naive AM is not the usual course of things for the upper social class women.   It's just fact, sorry if dumbass gave you trouble about it in the past.  These men will spend their entire lives clueless about decent RW.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2005, 09:21:04 AM »
Good post JB... it is your day :D:D:D
Quote
It's some of the travelers I'm addressing here. While technically they arn't newbies, they are having a hard time of it. We start to see the danger signs when guys say things like; "I've been to the FSU X times and I've met Y number of women". This sends alarm bells ringing in my head. I ask myself, why,,, after, say 3-4 or 5 trips he was unable to find a nice woman? Then the search criteria starts to unfold, we learn he wants a woman with no kids, he wants her to be within very narrow age ranges, (mostly very young), he wants her to be stunningly beautiful, slightly built, a non-smoker, non-drinker, etc., and the lists goes on. In fact, he wants everything. If the search criteria were reversed, he himself would not pass the test of marriage material for the kind of woman he seeks.

When some people write that in 5 trip, they have date 300 girls and not find one, i understandt it... usualy, they are people without time for try build a relation and use tour... in in evening, they date maybe 50 woman... but can we say that 10 minutes speaking are dating...

If yes, in some way, i can say that i have date thousand of woman in my short life... when i was young, the friday, in disco, i have speek with so much woman in a evening for find a new partner for the week-end...

If people will use these method with foreign relation, they need to go in FSU each week-end, meet thousand of woman... and maybe after some year, find these will be become his wife...

Foreign relation ask other method that local relation... and like JB say, some man are hunting a dream... but a dream is stay a dream... very few dream become reality...


Quote
I think the first thing a man should do before setting out on this road is to have a good long look at himself in the mirror and assess what he brings to the marriage table. What sort of woman is going to be sincerely attracted to him? I'm not going to turn this into an age related topic, but that is, of course, a consideration.


Yes, we are product and we need shell us to woman, who are customer... each product have his own pool of quality who can interest specific customer... a bad cibled publicity campaign bring nothing, no new customer... right weapon with the right target is the main advice... if you have fishing material, you hunt fish... if you have a gun, you hunt the bull... don't try to hunt the bull with you fishing material...

Quote

One popular myth is maturity. Men need to get it out of their heads that the FSU girls are more mature than AWs. Men often experience troubled relationships because they expect a 20's something girl to be as mature as a 35 y.o. woman. I think you can take it to the bank that a young woman with no life experience in Kiev is no more mentally mature than her AW sister in Cleveland.

Right, i have understand it recently... for the first time, i have search a RW up 32 year old... my search was +- 5 year... and i have find a good one now... a little more old that me ( 3 month )... and about maturity, it is a wonder... but, of course, she have a very strong character too... not always easy...

A old woman ? Not really, it seem that the russian climat help for the preservation... by curiosity, i have search more old... and i have find some woman from 50 year old that if i have not know the age, i have spring on it...


Quote
The biggest myth of all is the concept that FSU women are more of a "traditional" woman. No one has ever been able to satisfactorily explain that one to me. Men need to get the notion firmly fixed in their brains that women are women, no matter where they come from. Some are good wife material, while others will never be a good wife to any man. If you pursue a young, hot, party girl in Kiev, do not expect her to change her tastes and habits once she arrives in your home town. She's still going to be a young, hot, party girl. Can you live with that? Mostly the answer to that would be a resounding "NO", if what you say you want is a moral, decent, devoted wife to go with your new dream family. Then don't devote your time, energy, and resourses chasing the wrong kind of woman.

I see the term traditional in other way that several of my customer... usualy, when they say traditional, they think submisive, when it is not slave... my reply is simple, they fish in the bad pond... RW are certainly not submisive, they control all in the house... and you are a part of the house... they don't give order but can lead you to the needed way for have what they wish... with russian woman, you are under control...

I see more the term traditional in the way of general mentality of the country... friendship, family, ... value who was strong by us several year ago... but these value change in the same way in Russia and at a very high rate... this is the result of the end of communisme... the young babe are traditional like our young babe... woman up 35 yo are more like our own parents...

Of course, one woman is not the other... so, you have variation in all direction... make you choice... and i hope, the good one...


Corncrowe wrote :

Quote
jb,

Darn, I think you're right.  I missed this the first time.  Now as for Photo giving tips about sex, excuse me, but I have to go throw up now!!!


Hey pop-corn... it is not because someone have not kiss the woman he love that he is virgin... he have maybe more sexual experience that you.

Now, i am a romantic guys and i don't spring on everything around me... but when i was young, specialy in the Navy, i have know sexualy a lot of woman... so much that i have stop to count... some good souvenir from Bresil, my first submarine love ( not easy with bottle )... the more hot was from spain, a cleric woman, a nympho who know position who are not in the kamasoutra... needed one week for restore of one night...

Maybe the youth named from Photo is casanova... really, open your mouth for say thing that you know... use fact but not your great imagination... everybody here know 5 days of the life of Photo but nobody know the 50 other year... and you judge him on the 5 days...

 

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2005, 09:50:14 AM »
Quote from: RacerX
1. Try to make no assumptions about the character of RW - unless you've known many, lived in the FSU for years, and are a shrewd observer of human character.

I have ask to Larisa via ICQ for explain about the character of Russian woman... i have good laught with her reply ( sorry for the english, i have change nothing ) :

Once upon a time, the man has found aging lamp. From lamp left the genie and has asked : what three desires he can perform for new mister. The Man has thought and has said:

1) I want to be rich and have a good house.

The Genie has done the circle and appeared the big beautiful house.

2) I want ( said the man ) from door of my new house broad road ( 6 lines) on Bogamskie island.

The Genie has thought and has said :

" listen! can you has other merely desire ? I very old and this very complex work for me"

"Well! (has said the man) I want to understand the womans!!!

The Genie has quickly assigned the question : " so how much lines you want for road on Bogamskie island?

P.S.The Woman is a book! Do Not hurry to close it !

Offline jb

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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2005, 10:08:54 AM »
RacerX

Quote
1. Try to make no assumptions about the character of RW - unless you've known many, lived in the FSU for years, and are a shrewd observer of human character. It's likely you won't be able to tell a 'traditional RW' <snip> )from a prostitute.


Even if you've known many RW, they are still the consumate actress and a prostitute could easily fool a man if she has a desire to leave her sordid past behind and assume the mantle of respectability.  I would venture to say a large number of the RW now residing in the USA with their one week wonder husbands have made their living at some point in time plying the world's oldest profession.

Quote
2. My wife is more beautiful than yours, so don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise


I would never try that.  Comparing my wife to yours would be the old apples and oranges thing again.  I'm glad you find your wife beautiful, I hope you continue to feel that way for the next 100 years.

Quote
Never say: THE Ukraine


I never do.

Quote
never venture into this morass without the help of a female RW advisor!


Do you mean the one I married?  :)

« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 11:16:00 AM by jb »

Offline KenC

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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2005, 10:11:07 AM »
Good post Photo.

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
Quote
jb,
As time goes on, and I get to know a number of women from the FSU, I can now see how wrong the agencies are. They do present a picture of women who are ...good for their business. A lot of what they tell us are myths.

Who are these women in the FSU? That's the big question many of us are asking. It looks to me as though there is a huge variety of personality types and values. They do have that in common with western women. The label of 'traditional' is curious. A tradition in the US may not be a tradition in Russia. 'Liberal' in Ukraine may be different from liberal in France. Our frame of reference does not help us.

As you stated, if you date a Russian party girl, she may not be the wife of your dreams. I've taken a lot of criticism for not scoring in six days with her in Ukraine, but let's admit to the fact that there are conservative slow-starters over there, who proceed with caution.
Quote
I know that I never criticized you for not having sex on the first visit, but RW are not known for "holding back" displaying their feelings (at least in non-public areas).  There may too be some shy girls as you seem to indicate.
Quote
 I can name a number of them. And sure, there are women from the FSU who are very eager beavers. Every woman plays the game differently. I agree with Pee Wee that there is something about their style that is more 'team player', compared with western women.

As I've said before, a woman who wants to marry a foreigner and move to another country has basically two motives: materialism and romance. It's up to you to decide exactly what her motivations are. If you have sex with her in the first week of meeting her, this can and will cloud your vision. If you get the feeling that you are her 'cure', then you may also be trying to cure her when she's your wife. When you are getting to know her, she will expect you to buy her things, gifts, etc. In her culture, this is expected. It doesn't mean she is a scammer. It's a question of degree. Be careful how much you buy her, because you do not want to base the relationship on your sugar-daddy status.

I think the majority of these women want an idealistic romance and financial security. I think they are less competitive than AW in a relationship, but that's just a generalization.
Quote
RW will be less competitive in the work place with their mates, but look out on the home front for a battle for control.
Quote

Rather than going by what agencies say about RW, I'd advise a guy to get to know as many RW as possible. Form friendships with them. Get into their heads before you get too deeply into their hearts. I could be wrong, but I think you can assume that their personalities vary more than AW. Some may be all over you like a cheap suit in minutes, while others may take time before holding hands with you in public.
Quote
Actually, most "good girls" are reluctant to express their feelings in a public setting, ie. public hand holding, public kissing.
Quote

As far as 'traditional' is concerned. I've been reading about how 'strong' women from the FSU are. They control family life. Or at least that is the 'tradition'. So forget about the compliant passive house-wife scenario. Almost contradicting this idea, is the quality they seem to possess of keeping things very harmonious. Harmony appears to be a major goal, rather than power and leadership. In any event, I find them to be fascinating.

Good post, jb.

You got the first part right, but I wouldn't count on all that "harmony" you talk about in the second half.  At least that is my experience over the last 6 years.

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline corncrowe

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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2005, 11:06:20 AM »
Quote from: Bruno
jb,

Darn, I think you're right.  I missed this the first time.  Now as for Photo giving tips about sex, excuse me, but I have to go throw up now!!!

Hey pop-corn... it is not because someone have not kiss the woman he love that he is virgin... he have maybe more sexual experience that you.

Now, i am a romantic guys and i don't spring on everything around me... but when i was young, specialy in the Navy, i have know sexualy a lot of woman... so much that i have stop to count... some good souvenir from Bresil, my first submarine love ( not easy with bottle )... the more hot was from spain, a cleric woman, a nympho who know position who are not in the kamasoutra... needed one week for restore of one night...

[/quote]


Brunoito,

Viva le french?  Hey dummie, I saw the picture of Galina, and personally I wouldn't have kissed her with "your lips" either.  So you are a passionate guy?  Try dating some nice Belguim or French girls for a change.  I did. 

I still date American women and they don't kiss on the first date either.  But, I don't take advice from you or Photoguy because I've done better and passed on much better women than both you guys!

Jezz...I get women like these writing me and I'm not interested.

P.S.  She is going to be in Canada on August 20th to begin her Doctriate degree in music...


"Now, i am a romantic guys and i don't spring on everything around me... but when i was young, specialy in the Navy"

But we know navy boys like to go down to the engine room for some "dutch treats".  

Puskie le francie`

Jon


« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 11:30:00 AM by corncrowe »

Offline Jim Nasium

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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2005, 11:27:11 AM »
JB,

You make many excellent points and the follow up thus far is great as well.

Given some of your statements, my relative newness to this board, and the timing of this thread in relation to some recent posts I made, I can't help wondering if much or all of these very valid assumptions are directed at least in part, or even specifically, at me.


In other words, are you "assuming" to include me among the group of troubled "travelers"?

If so, maybe you could add a subtitle to this thread…

something like "…And Assumptions JB Makes".

Anyway, just curious about it...



Offline jb

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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2005, 11:50:00 AM »
Actually, Jim, you were not the objective of this thread, the comment was directed at the process of finding and wooing a FSU woman, and more specifically to those who are attracted to it.  

I think it's curious that you saw yourself in this.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2005, 12:00:13 PM »
Quote from: corncrowe
Brunoito,

Viva le french?  Hey dummie, I saw the picture of Galina, and personally I wouldn't have kissed her with "your lips" either.  So you are a passionate guy?  Try dating some nice Belguim or French girls for a change.  I did. 

I still date American women and they don't kiss on the first date either.  But, I don't take advice from you or Photoguy because I've done better and passed on much better women than both you guys!

Jezz...I get women like these writing me and I'm not interested.

P.S.  She is going to be in Canada on August 20th to begin her Doctriate degree in music...


"Now, i am a romantic guys and i don't spring on everything around me... but when i was young, specialy in the Navy"

But we know navy boys like to go down to the engine room for some "dutch treats".  

Puskie le francie`

Jon



 

Jon,

The photo of your girlfriend is cute... but before say lie, remove the link on the photo... these link is from a korean sex board with photo of star... it seem that all you write is based on dream.... i think that the only thing you kiss is your computer screen...

And i date real Belgium woman, and i prove it ( the photo is online only during 24 hours )... take a look at http://www.love-from-russia.be/forum/bruno.jpg if your are not shocked by nudity... yep, i can prove that i have the experience... what about you ???

And before judge the woman from other or before judge the relation of other man, show us what you are really capable... Yes, Galina is not a top model but ... she was real, not only a photo from a sex board... i think that your only experience is coming from the solitaire pleasure satified with your own hand...

If you have not really something interesting to post, spare us your childish comment...

Offline corncrowe

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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2005, 12:54:11 PM »
Quote
Bruno wrote:  

Jon,

The photo of your girlfriend is cute... but before say lie, remove the link on the photo... these link is from a korean sex board with photo of star...
Quote
Keep dreaming Bruno.
Quote
i think that your only experience is coming from the solitaire pleasure satified with your own hand...

If you have not really something interesting to post, spare us your childish comment...


Gee Bruno,

How many "real" children do you have?  NONE!  Maybe because fat, bald, sex perverts can't meet real women. 

I have three children...stupid,


P.S.  Bruno, I said she wasn't someone I wanted "you can read, yes?"  But maybe you can love her?  Please, here is her email address:

operia20@yahoo.co.kr

Jon

 

« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 01:09:00 PM by corncrowe »

Offline Jack

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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2005, 01:21:27 PM »
I would like to add my 2 cents here as well. Many good points brought up as well as some pure hog-wash.
 
You new guys want to be successful? Here are a few things to consider.
 
(1) Work for your success. Figure out which is the best approach for you. Do you meet a lot of Russian ladies? If you are independently wealthy you can make several trips in a year meeting two three ladies at a time, spending 10 days, two weeks with each lady. If you are not independently wealthy like most of us then you need to work even harder as you can probably make only one trip a year and if lucky, two trips a year. Guys in this category generally need to meet a lot of ladies in a short period of time and usually one or two ladies you might have real potential chemistry will rise to the top. Most of us will not have enough time to spend with any one lady to say "will you marry me", yet this does not stop many guys from doing it.
 
Most guys who do meet many ladies in a short period of time will need to go back and spend more time with that one or those two or three ladies who rose to the top.
 
Now some men cannot meet many ladies at a time, some guys can only meet one lady at a time, see one lady at a time. For these type guys this is the best approach and method for them because it is the approach they feel best with. Some guys are able to meet three, four, five ladies on a trip with no problem and thus this is the best method for him if this is what he is more comfortable with.
 
Whichever method an individual is most comfortable with is the method he needs to refine, to read the experiences from others who have tried his preferred method.
 
(2) Be realistic with your dreams. These noodle heads here that want to tell you that you can't find a good, sincere beautiful model type wife are usually the guys who were not successful in finding that type wife. They didn't do it, why should you be successful at it?  Well hogwash! Every man can upgrade, everyman can find a better wife for himself in the FSU than he can in America. But you have to be realistic.
 
If on a scale from 1 to 10 your a five and you think you can get a ten, get real!!! Ain't going to happen!  If your a five then you can find a Russian woman who is a 6.5 who you could probably have a happy life.
 
I ask all men to be honest with themselves. Give yourself a grade. Maybe you say your a 7, or a 7.5. Maybe you think your an 8. Whatever you think you are, you can upgrade comfortably by 1.5.
 
A man who is a 7, he can get an 8.5. He is pretty much wasting his time going after a 9. And a 10, forget it Mr. 7, ain't going to happen.
 
"IF" you are fortunate enough to be a 8.5, or a 9, THEN you guys have a chance at the 9.5 and the 10's. But guys, do you really want those 10's? They are very few and far apart, the 10's are, or their are lot's of 9.3, 9.4's and 9.5's and some 9'6's but those 10's are few and far between and "IF" you find one, you had damn sure better have the horsepower and means to take care of her.
 
When guys who are 6's seek up to a 7.5, guys who are 6.5's seek up to an 8,  7.5 up to 9's, when you guys are realistic with your dreams and expectations, these dreams will and can come true.
 
(3) Seek someone fairly close to your age.
Russian women prefer older men? More Agency Hogwash! Russian women will accept older men if they are in good shape, if they are good providers, if they make the women feel secure and if she thinks he has a good heart, but normally these ladies prefer to find a man within 10-12 years max of her age. But if you have a lot going for you, they will stretch, and I do mean streatchhhhhh it to 15 years.
 
Oh my, these 22 and 23 and 24 year old HOT babes that will accept a man to 45 or 50, geeezzz, how do we turn them down?  Ok, there are a few women who might be sincere in this request, but not many, not most. You guys think these beautiful model type women have to go to the internet and ask for older men? Then you have a lot to learn.
 
First of all I think 23 is the age of maturity for Russian women. At 19, 20, 21, these girls are still growing. Their NOT thinking of marriage to a foreign man and leaving their country, their friends and family, hell no, their going to the disco, hanging out with young people, doing crazy things, not thinking of becoming Ms. Susie Homemaker in St. Louis. Allow these girls time to grow. Usually one year out of the university they are ready to think about something as serious as marriage and leaving family and friends.
 
If guys will try to find ladies who are within 15 years their age they will be more successful at finding ladies and having a healthy, lasting relationship. Yes their are many documented cases of happy marriages where their are 19, 20, 23, 25 , 28 years age difference, BUT these are the EXCEPTIONS, NOT the norm! And we older guys have to think of later repercussions when marring young ladies, such as having children (tell me about it!)
 
Every Russian woman (well most Russian women) will want a child. I assure you most Russian women of 23 to 30 are dreaming to have a child if they do not have one. When many of these women hit 30, 31, 32, it begins to enter their mind that maybe they will not have children. Some will adjust and accept this fact, others will not and will demand a child. If you marry a much younger woman without a child this is something you have to think about or it could cause some real issues 5, 6, 7 years into a marriage.
 
(4) Meet with ladies you can communicate with.
You guys who travel half way across the world to meet one woman who does not speak English, well,  I just shake my head. What a mistake. You guys who travel across half way across the world and will meet several ladies, half of who speak English, half who could not speak English, ooohh what the education and experience has taught you.
 
Their are always exceptions to every rule. Some young ladies of 20 will make good wife's, some young women of 23 will be happily married to a man of 50, some model type women will be happy with men who are 6's or 7's (although I have not personally seen this), some men will find, meet and marry women who could not speak English and they live happily ever after. Some men will find a good wife on Anastasia scamweb and Absolute Agency, some men will meet and marry the only Russian woman they ever met and live happily ever after, but all these examples are the exception, NOT the norm. So if you married a Russian woman who could not speak English and you are happily married, congratulations, it worked for you but you are the exception, not the normal. Exceptions DO happen but I prefer to play the percentages.
 
For men who have gone over and met many ladies, some spoke English and some did not, ask each of these men what they learned! I bet each will tell you "it is a waste of time to meet any lady who you cannot communicate with directly". Most of you do not have enough time to spend with women you cannot communicate with. Most men who have to use an interpreter get to know the interpreter better than the woman they have interest in!
 
To me it is a waste of time to meet any woman you cannot communicate with directly.
 
So you make a trip, your in the 80% group of guys who prefer to meet more than one lady at a time and you meet several ladies and one or two of these ladies cannot speak English. But you like them, you think. You like her looks and her smile and her height, you like everything about her but you can't talk to her. Without an interpreter you walk around the city, point to things, nod your head and laugh. Over dinner you break out your dictionary and laugh and smile as you try to put sentences together. (How romantic, how sweet. I could never get such a woman like this in America. To hell we can't communicate with each other, I better take her.)
 
So what do you do when you are in this situation? Their are several options I suppose but what I recommend is you tell this lady you will pay for her English lessons for the next three month, you want to come back to see her, and to be able to communicate with her one on one. I know without any doubt when a Russian woman is serious to know a man, maybe marry this man, she can learn good English in three months. So you guys have to figure out who is a good investment. Who do you want to invest $250 in over three months to learn English.
 
(5) Present yourself honestly. Be honest with these women. Don't portray to be someone your not. If your a grumpy, senile old man, be yourself. Let the woman fall in love with the real you. Be yourself 100%. The way you treat her and act in Russia, in Ukraine, is the same way you should treat her and act with her in America.
 
(6) Education, education, education. You guys read all you can. Learn from those who have gone before you. You will quickly see that what one method and means worked for one man is the method this one man will recommend. If a guy went to Russia, meet one woman, married this one woman then this man is going to recommend the best way to meet ladies is to only meet one at a time.Why? Because this is the method that worked for him. HOW could a guy honestly meet or see more than one woman, why that's just disgusting he says and thinks......Well, this is the method this one guy used. It worked for him therefore it must and should work for others. Why to meet more than one woman at a time you cannot be serious, you must be a player he proclaims.
 
Men who met many ladies in there pursuit for a Russian bride generally learn a LOT about Russian women, and married a Russian woman, and are living happily ever after, will generally recommend guys to meet several ladies. Why? Because this is the means and methods that worked for him.
 
So guys have to educate themselves, they have to look at the sources. If the senile old man who only met one Russian lady and married her and says that is the best way to go and he is very vocal and constantly pounding this message might have newby's thinking this is the best way. Newby's, you have to take your time, educate yourself. Figure out what sources are real, offer the best advice. You look at what methods and means were successful for a lot of guys, not a few guys. You figure out with your personality what means and methods are best for you then you read how guys did who went about this pursuit in the manner in which you think you feel best trying.
 
(7) A good photo.
There is nothing as an important a man can do to help his cause when starting out than a good photo. It IS the single most important thing you can do to increase the number of ladies who reply back from your letter of introduction, or from your profile posted at honest and ethical marriage agencies. However when posting your photo on most the agencies that are internet based, in many times the type photo you submit is meaningless. Doesn't matter how good or bad the photos is, the beautiful model types will write you. Heck, you can even post your photo as a truck and get model types to write you with some agencies. But when placing newspaper ads, when sending out your letter of introduction to many ladies whose addresses you bought, when sending your photo and profile to honest and ethical marriage agencies, a good photo is the key to getting many ladies to reply back.
 
Ok, I see I have come up with 7 quick things guys can do to help to be successful. By no means is this all and in fact this is just the tip of the iceberg. When time allows I will try to add more things a guy can do to help increase his odds at finding a good wife.
 
Now to address some of the previous comments on this post.
 
Photoguy you wrote,...a woman who wants to marry a foreigner and move to another country has basically two motives: materialism and romance.
 
Photoguy, how about women who are looking for a better way of life. How about women who are looking for a better place to raise their children. How about women who are looking for a man who has a good and sincere heart and a man who will treat her good.
 
Romance hell. Most women do not spend enough time to fall in love with us guys. The 5 days, the one week, two weeks we spent with this woman, that's not usually enough time for a Russian woman to fall in love with the man. BUT it is enough time for the Russian women to know if she feels as though she can learn to fall in love with a man. I heard this some 4 different times from different Russian women. The first time I heard it, it stayed with me to this day. But when I heard this from 2, 3, 4 Russian women, I had learned something. When I questioned these women as to if they were sure they were in love and wanted to marry this man, these ladies all said (and these ladies were in different cities and over a three year time period), "Jack, I think I can learn to love this man". These women were not in love, but they thought they could fall in love.
 
Few of us are able to spend enough time with a Russian woman in the FSU for her to really fall in love with us.
 
 
 
Photoguy wrote... Rather than going by what agencies say about RW, I'd advise a guy to get to know as many RW as possible. Form friendships with them. Get into their heads before you get too deeply into their hearts. I could be wrong, but I think you can assume that their personalities vary more than AW.
 
No, your not wrong Photoguy, you are very much correct. Men who can meet many ladies learn a lot about Russian women. I have often said I never had a wasted 1 or 2 hour meeting. Most of us men know in the first 20-30 minutes if their is potential chemistry with this woman, and 85% of the time the answer is no. Either she does not have interest in us, or we in her. So rather than have the meeting end in 30 minutes, I would sit back, enjoy a new Ukraine or Russian dish and ask questions about this ladies life, what she was looking for in a man, who was she going to adjust to life in America. I educated myself to the ways of this one Russian woman. Getting to know many Russian women will generally help men in making the best choice. They were able to get to know many women, to compare many Russian women. They have educated themselves.
 
Photoguy wrote....If you have sex with her in the first week of meeting her, this can and will cloud your vision.
 
Well Photoguy, I don't know about not having sex in the first week. I think this is a very personal thing and hard to say when. Maybe it's on day three after 6 dates, or maybe day fine after eight dates. I can tell you that if a woman really falls for you then she may not wait a whole week, are you going to tell her no? (sureee)
 
But I can assure you that it will cloud your mind if you have sex with her the first day you meet her, or even worse, the first few hours of meeting her for the first time.
 
 
 

jb  wrote ....a prostitute could easily fool a man if she has a desire to leave her sordid past behind and assume the mantle of respectability.
 
Yes the can, and they do!  Guy's, get to know your future wife before you marry her!

 
 

jb wrote ....One popular myth is maturity. Men need to get it out of their heads that the FSU girls are more mature than AWs.
 
Just pure hogwash jb. jb, how many Russian women did you meet to come to this conclusion? Their is NO doubt in my mind that the average Russian woman of 23 is much more mature than the average American woman of 23. Their is NO doubt in my mind that the average Russian woman of 25 is MUCH more mature than the average American woman of 25. Their is no doubt in my mind that the average Russian woman of 30 is a LOT more mature than the average American woman of 30. I will say that as Russian women get around 40 and 45 the maturity level between Russian women and American women is about the same. But boy are you so far in left field with that statement.
 
jb wrote .....I've been to the FSU X times and I've met Y number of women". This sends alarm bells ringing in my head. I ask myself, why,,, after, say 3-4 or 5 trips he was unable to find a nice woman?
 
It's only my opinion and one you can greatly disagree with but I would take the advice, suggestions and input from the men who have been fortunate enough to have meet several Russian ladies which usually requires several trips, over men who met and married the only Russian woman they met. Men who make more than one trip I see generally as making good choices. It's obvious they are not going to marry the first Russian women they met. It's obvious they are not going to meet the only Russian woman they ever met. These men in general have educated themselves quite a bit in regards to the ways of Russian women.
 
So when I see these type guys (those with multiple trips) make their comments, their suggestions, when they report their experiences, I find these reports more educational and more to be right on as compared to the men who made one trip or those who married the one and only Russian woman they ever met.
 
 

RacerX wrote..... I'll let you in on a very big secret....RW have it ingrained in them to be very conservative with men and the decent ones will never (I repeat for the hard of reading types) never have sex with you on the first visit.
 
Racer, absolutely correct!  A good, decent Russian woman will never have sex with a man she has just met on there first visit.   My god, if she would have sex with you on your first date she would have sex with probably any man on her first date. This type woman obviously did not listen to her mom's description of good morals. If a woman would have sex with me the first time we met, she damn sure wasn't going to be my wife and might be as jb indicated, a possibly former prostitute.
 
KenC with what you wrote, what the heck, I agree with you!

 
 
 
 

Offline Michelangelo

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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2005, 01:29:01 PM »
Thanks, JB, for starting a good strand...

RWD is at its best when experience guides newcomers in the process of understanding FSU women and the pitfalls that are in the path...

It is at its worst when guys attack each other!  Please cut the personal crap...it is a distraction.  If someone wants to brag, let them.  But don't lower yourself by attacking them.

But back to the thread JB started.  I think the points are on target and should guide those seeking an FSU partner.  I almost jumped too soon once, and now I am glad I did not.  Assume the worst and let time tell.

In terms of Ukraine women being more traditional, the ones I have met are more traditional in the kitchen in that they actually cook!  But they are just as bossy as any AW and yes, they will likey run your household.

In terms of the sex discussion, while there may be a norm, there is still variation.  Someone once posted here that a FSU girl will wait until after the third "date" before going to bed with you (if she likes you), and I have found that to usually be true. But I have also known girls who would NEVER make love to the guy on the first trip.

Why would a FSU girl marry someone 20 years older than she is?  For a better life and a better lifestyle!  Now, I am a romantic, so within that constant there is room for her to honestly love you and want to create, in their words, "a cozy family."  But as Journeyman has written elsewhere, many girls just make the move for the economics and will dump you as soon as possible.

The path is dangerous, with sharp banks on the constant curves and logs in the way.  But its an exciting journey and like at the casino, some win big!  Just look at the pics of some of the girls guys on this board are married to :)  And yes, you can have both looks and heart, and that is our goal, is it not?
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.  michelangelo

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2005, 01:31:11 PM »
Quote from: corncrowe
Keep dreaming Bruno.
Gee Bruno,

How many "real" children do you have?  NONE!  Maybe because fat, bald, sex perverts can't meet real women. 

I have three children...stupid,

Jon

 
[/quote]
Jon, i don't dream.. on your photo, it is write babokorea.com ... these domain name don't exist anymore... but the previous owner have a new one domain name babokorea.co.kr ... Very strange...

About children, i have none... where is the link with yourprevious post where you doubt the capacity from some to know something to sexuality... do you make love only for have children ??? If yes, for a full life, 3 child is not a lot... Knowledge over sexuality mean that you know contraception method...

First, you think that i know nothing about sex... now, i am a sex pervert... change from white to black... ( for the other, the photo is removed, it was only for sir shadow who is better that everybody )...

Real woman, 3 child... Why are you using you time here... have you nothing better to make, like use time with child and your real woman... of maybe these real woman and child are not more with you ??? Where is your real woman ?

On other topic, you speak over inner beauty... why a guys with inner beauty is alone... why he show in several post is low estime of woman in general... why he speak about "buy" woman... about hooker in Amsterdam...

Yes, previously, i was very actif sexualy, like several young gast... now, i have no more interest in short encounter... i wish a wife, a soulmate, a friend,... My sexuality from before make it me a pervert ?... i don't think, several young people experiment before think about a fixed life... but now, what about you... and your evolution... you was with family ( child and wife ) and now, we find your here with all you allusion, your sexy photo of girls, your comment... who is really the pervert... you are not far from the forum troll... hijack topic for stupid comment, laugh of the post of other, ...

Seriously, why are you here !!! Are you married or was you married with RW... is your actual girlfriend a RW... do you wish marry a RW... What can you bring to these forum except your sarcasme... what " jb, Darn, I think you're right.  I missed this the first time.  Now as for Photo giving tips about sex, excuse me, but I have to go throw up now!!!" can bring here... except try to start a new fight with Photo... if you have information give them but keep your comment on other people for yourself...


Offline corncrowe

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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2005, 01:45:07 PM »
Quote from: Bruno
Seriously, why are you here !!! Are you married or was you married with RW... is your actual girlfriend a RW...


Bruno,

I am here for Elen.  Why are you here?  Maybe to explain all your sexual exploits?  I think you spend to much time in life explaining how romantic and sensual man you are.

I have a FSU woman whom I write and learn about, and will visit, but choose not to share this information with you.  Why, because I honestly don't respect your judgement.  That's all.

So, please go and dream of a family with some woman who will become your next conquest, like Luda...

P.S.  Before I forget, my children live with me.  Can you figure that one out?  Or is it too complex a thought???


Jon

« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 02:10:00 PM by corncrowe »

Offline corncrowe

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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2005, 01:53:13 PM »
Quote from: Bruno
Seriously, why are you here !!! Are you married or was you married with RW... is your actual girlfriend a RW... do you wish marry a RW... What can you bring to these forum except your sarcasme... what " jb, Darn, I think you're right.  I missed this the first time.  Now as for Photo giving tips about sex, excuse me, but I have to go throw up now!!!" can bring here... except try to start a new fight with Photo... if you have information give them but keep your comment on other people for yourself...


Brunoito,

Why don't you quote the "whole" conversation?  Why do you continue to only pick a piece which suits your fancy? 

Please, I am really not interested to know "in your mind" if you are a better lover, or had 1000 women in the past.  It's not interesting.  I think you post drival and most often tripe conversation about life. 

I seriously don't need to justify anything with you.  It's a joke that you think I need to explain my life, love, relationships with you? 

Thanks for the humor,

Jon

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2005, 02:14:48 PM »
Quote from: corncrowe
It is at its worst when guys attack each other! Please cut the personal crap...it is a distraction. If someone wants to brag, let them. But don't lower yourself by attacking them.


So, no attack, only reply...

I am here for share my personal experience or knowledge... and because i was invited here by Dan...

Now, i have a new one reason... without RWD, i have never know my actual lady... it is not the RWD who have help me directly but a russian woman who publish here who have give me some little advice... these advice have change my method of selection of woman and allow me to find a pearl... without these advice, i was certainly always on the bad way...

About Luda, like i have explain previously, it was more a therapy for help me after the misluck with Galina... i have realize it at my return in Belgium... we have know good time together but we follow each our own way...

And i need to thank all the other members who have support me after my misluck... and specialy some who have send me advice... but these that i thank the more is Mischief... a great lady...

Yes, i have several reasons to be here... i teach what i know and i learn what i don't know... sometime, from what i learn, my own meaning change... if i have know RWD before my first marriage, i am sure that i have never married my first russian wife... so forum is the best tool for newbies and people who start again the process due to some misluck...

 

 

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