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Author Topic: The great engagement ring debate continues.  (Read 13287 times)

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Offline Steamer

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2015, 06:54:15 PM »
The quality of the ring is what makes it expensive not the size alone.
Buy her a bit smaller ring, she will be happy, buy top quality, you will reach your budget fast enough.


When I was shopping for the wifes ring I was VERY unhappy with the diamonds I could afford. Her birthday is in May so I got her a fantastic emerald instead. She loved it. After she wore it I told her if she didn't like it we could shop for something else and she said No Way!
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2015, 12:49:03 AM »
Quote
I went with my grandmother ring...

It had more meaning than any ring that could be bought in a store...

I would agree that is has more meaning. Nonetheless, caution is the byword as in many parts of Ukraine and Russia, giving precious things like jewelry, etc, that belonged to a person now deceased is considered to be bad luck. It is somewhat similar to the FSU superstition about gifting sharp objects to another person.

I've done the same thing with my wife, but each time we discussed it first.
The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline BdHvA

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2015, 12:49:44 AM »

When I was shopping for the wifes ring I was VERY unhappy with the diamonds I could afford. Her birthday is in May so I got her a fantastic emerald instead. She loved it. After she wore it I told her if she didn't like it we could shop for something else and she said No Way!

Emeralds are when good, very good. They tend to be fragile an often what you see has inclusions, fractures and mud.

I admire going away from the diamond as engagement stone.

Another stone to consider is a sapphire. In fact it comes in a wide range of colours, blue being most common to deep browns, pinks and yellows. For what it is worth technically a ruby is also a sapphire. Corundum is the element.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 12:51:47 AM by BdHvA »
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Offline jone

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2015, 01:15:46 AM »
I would agree that is has more meaning. Nonetheless, caution is the byword as in many parts of Ukraine and Russia, giving precious things like jewelry, etc, that belonged to a person now deceased is considered to be bad luck. It is somewhat similar to the FSU superstition about gifting sharp objects to another person.

I've done the same thing with my wife, but each time we discussed it first.

I'm glad you discussed giving sharp objects to your wife.  You never know what she might do with them.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2015, 08:49:02 AM »
 :D A man can never be too careful!
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Offline BdHvA

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2015, 05:22:21 PM »
I'm glad you discussed giving sharp objects to your wife.  You never know what she might do with them.

I recall a Mr. Bobbit.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2015, 05:51:57 PM »
Another stone to consider is a sapphire. In fact it comes in a wide range of colours, blue being most common to deep browns, pinks and yellows.

I got my ex-wife a sapphire ring with a band of small diamonds surrounding the main stone - really beautiful.

Offline zooble

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2015, 08:19:33 PM »
These ring topics are great  :D

There are so many issues:

1. Diamonds
Most people are aware of this but I'll mention it since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Diamonds as an engagement ring are simply are construct from the (dare I say) great marketing campaign from the diamond company De Beers. Their value is artificially inflated due to this company restricting supply through their monopoly. They have no use other than for decorations. Yes there are commercial uses of diamonds such as diamond tipped drills but these are not made from the same type of expensive 'high quality' diamonds used for jewellery.

2. Coloured Gems
Previously coloured gems had more value. If you go to any good museum you'll find all the treasures encrusted with coloured gems, not diamonds. Birthstones are a great choice in my opinion. They have more meaning especially in Russia where things such as astrology are bigger. Depending on the month, their cost can be very low especially with semi-precious stones. If the month is April (diamond) then bad luck  :D You could also give your birthstone or a combination of both depending on the ring setting.

Lab created precious coloured gems are also a less expensive option for expensive sapphires and rubies which can cost as much as a decent diamond for a similar size. I would say it depends on the girl whether these are a viable alternative. You could ask her what her thoughts are on them without any specific mention of a ring - it could be for any jewellery or just asking an opinion.

In places like the UK I believe Sapphires are quite common for engagement rings.

3. The Setting
The engagement ring setting is another thing to consider if you are putting in a little more thought and getting a separate stone and setting. Typically costing in the hundreds and capping out at about 2-3k for top end gold or platinum band. If your engagement ring is going to cost a few thousand+ then you are probably considering this route.

4. Affordability
This is all dependant on your income and expenses. I have friends which use the 3 month rule. I think that is too much personally for a mere decoration.

5. Amount Willing to Spend
Someone else put it perfectly, what ever you spend make sure you are willing to also spend on something useful like education and health for her and your children. Like the above 3 month example, I'd rather put it towards a mortgage or something.

Knowing that rings are nothing more than decorations, especially diamonds as explained above, most men will try to spend as little as possible (or not more than any other piece of jewellery) on an engagement ring (just a rock that sits on a finger at the end of the day). This is simply being prudent, not cheap. Unless you are Mr Moneybags and using 'wallet game' to buy love or are simply rich like a billionaire money is no object.

6. Girl's Expectations
I don't think you can say all RW don't expect a ring, or all RW expect a ring. Similar situation if it is diamond vs no diamond. It depends on individual circumstances. I asked a RW if she thought a person was married and she said no because there was no stone on her finger. I would then assume she is expecting an engagement ring with a gemstone/diamond. I've also met a non-typical Ukrainian who wore a diamond encrusted watch who said she bought it because she loved diamonds. I would assume she would also love a diamond engagement ring.

7. Final Thoughts
What ever your ring problems are just be glad you don't have a stereotypical Asian woman. She will tell you the minimum it is to cost (not cheap) and how big it should be (not small)... or you 2 will not be getting married ;D

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2015, 08:47:50 PM »
It is nice to see someone posting in this section as it has been awhile! Welcome to the forum, Zooble.


I'll stay with my assessment until engagement rings starting making appearances at weddings of Russian and Ukrainian couples. For now, it remains mainly a Western tradition.  :D
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Offline calmissile

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2015, 01:57:50 AM »
Interesting thread.  It certainly demonstrates the divergent views on the topic.  I have to agree with Muzh and others that point out the absurd notion of some that the cost and/or size of the ring relates to the amount of love of the husband toward the wife.  I have seen many instances where American men insist on huge rocks on their wife's hand.  The excuse given is that any man interested in pursuing her would back off thinking the husband has the resources to create problems for him.  Seems to me it is more a case of being insecure about the relationship.

I guess I must have been very lucky with my wife.  When we decided to get married we discussed the details on Skype and she did most of the planning including finding the wedding dress, choosing the wedding party participants (Kiev wedding), etc.  A fantastic job offer was received in the same time frame as our planned wedding.

When I arrived in Kiev we started all the extensive paperwork process.  I was under a tight schedule as I had to be in Seattle after my 2nd day on the job and there was no way to delay the meetings at a major corporation.  Getting all the paperwork done was a nightmare.  Larissa was working full time and had trouble getting time off to go from office to office to meet all the paperwork requirements.  As I recall it involved many trips between the Marriage Registry, translator, notary and a few other government offices to register things.  It was probably a riot for anyone to have witnessed.  She called the taxis from her work, had them meet me and then called them again to take me to the next destination.  It took several days to get it all done.  In the mean time, my mandatory departure date was getting close.

We finally got all paperwork done, but she had said nothing about when she was going to pick up the dress or pick out the ring.  We ended up in the Marriage Registry office and the lady reviewed all the paperwork and finally said we were now approved to get married after we had one more document notarized.  The notary was within walking distance and he told us it would take an hour before we could pick up the document.  Larissa asked if we wanted to go pick out the rings.  She led me to a jewelry store within walking distance.  I told her to pick out any ring she wanted.  She selected a plain but nice gold band.  I don't remember the cost but was probably around $400.  I asked if she was sure that is what she wanted and she said yes.  What a relief!   I also chose a gold band and that was it.

On the way back to the Marriage Registry, we walked past the store that had the Wedding Dress she had picked out.  I never knew the price of it but did know that she has very expensive tastes based on her clothing collection.   I asked her if we should stop and pick up the dress now?  She muttered something I did not understand and she led me back to the Marriage Registry.  She and the director chatted and then she asked when did I want to get married. I did not fully understand the question and she said something to the effect of "Get married now?".   I figured she meant we are now approved to get married and we would  do so after all the things that need to get done such as arranging the wedding ceremony buying the wedding dress, etc.  I responded "Yes" without fully understanding what was to come.  She and the director led us into a small side office, the director turned on a boom box with "Here Comes the Bride" and after a few Russian sentences, she jabbed me in the side and I replied "Yes" in English.  She announced we were now married.

It was the craziest experience I have every had.  Remembering the running from office to office in the rain and the many cab rides is something we still chuckle about.  I was very impressed with her thrift in selecting a wedding band.  I knew that she had always bought the highest value in everything.  As it turned out, her conversion to being thrifty has endured to this day.  I explained to her that I am very hard on work shirts and often buy them in bulk at thrift stores.  She seemed to have no problem with that.  In fact she started buying nearly all of her daughters clothes there also.  She then started buying some of her 'like new' but used clothes there also.  She announces how proud she is to be getting such 'great deals' all the time.  Even has been clipping coupons and buying groceries based on best value rather than name brands.  I have never done that in my life.  At times it makes me feel guilty.  I can afford whatever she wants, but she insists that she is doing what she wants.   My mental response is "If it's not broken....don't fix it".

Back to the price and style of rings......  It seems that it depends on the personalities of the parties and the ability to afford what the wife wants. Still feeling guilty about the cost of the ring we bought in Kiev, when she arrived in the USA I took her to the Diamond District in LA and got her to pick out a nicer wedding band set.  She still cherishes the plain gold band we got in Kiev, but wears the new set when she goes to town.  On the other hand....... we are spoiling our daughter rotten.  I should have bought stock in Toys Are Us!     ;D
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline Betelgeuse

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2015, 01:06:47 AM »
I can answer as Russian (well, Ukrainian) woman. I don't care how much the ring costs as long as it looks pretty and not pretentious. I don't need 1000000000 carat diamond :) I also wouldn't mind if there was no engagement ring at all, no big deal. I think that's how most women in my country think. Also it could be not safe for her to wear this ring unless she lives in the capital.

Offline BdHvA

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2015, 10:44:33 AM »
You are correct, my wife who resides in Kiev is cautious with her glitteries.

The comment up thread about deBeers is spot on.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline mies

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2015, 03:32:15 PM »
Buy her a matching set, the ring, earrings, necklace, something that she can wear to a special occasion - wedding, opera, birthday etc., something beautiful, something that she chooses herself and likes. She doesn't need to wear it every day. There are some beautiful jewelry produced locally in Ukraine or Russia. This will be a compromise between American tradition of engagement rings and FSU traditional love of gold & jewelry.

Offline mies

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2015, 03:39:41 PM »
I can answer as Russian (well, Ukrainian) woman. I don't care how much the ring costs as long as it looks pretty and not pretentious. I don't need 1000000000 carat diamond :) I also wouldn't mind if there was no engagement ring at all, no big deal. I think that's how most women in my country think. Also it could be not safe for her to wear this ring unless she lives in the capital.

"I don't need 1000000000 carat diamond" - you are just saying it because no one ever gave it to you nor will  :P (or to me)
somehow I feel that when you are offered such a diamond, you would not say "no"  :popcorn:

Ukrainian (or Russian) women are famous for being thrifty. They always closely watch that a Western man (even if this is not *their* man) doesn't spend too much money, especially on a woman. Especially if this woman is not them  8)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 03:42:14 PM by mies »

Offline mies

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2015, 03:43:39 PM »
You are correct, my wife who resides in Kiev is cautious with her glitteries.

The comment up thread about deBeers is spot on.

and yet if you walk around Kyiv during November-March, all you see on women is mink, more often than not full pelts not pieces, with the average price of coat being in the range 2'000-5'000 USD..  Go figure.....
In the last 2 years thefts and robberies became very common in Kyiv, with the influx of criminals form Eastern Ukraine. I know a Kyiv woman who was robbed and then stabbed in a lung near the heart as a "parting gift." Luckily she survived.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 03:46:39 PM by mies »

Offline BdHvA

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2015, 03:56:45 PM »
and yet if you walk around Kyiv during November-March, all you see on women is mink, more often than not full pelts not pieces, with the average price of coat being in the range 2'000-5'000 USD.. 

There seems to be allot of average dead animals wandering about Kivy, and there are also a fair number of gorgeous sables lost on Kreshatik. Multiply the above noted price by a factor of three. I must admit it is gorgeous.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline jone

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2015, 04:06:28 PM »
Just curious. 

A friend of mine married a Russian woman.  She is notorious for not wearing her wedding ring in the United States when she goes out with her girlfriends.  Is there some tradition that allows the woman not wear her ring when she goes out?  Or is that just her being naughty?
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline ML

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2015, 05:40:37 PM »
  Is there some tradition that allows the woman not wear her ring when she goes out?

Of course; it enhances ability to flirt and pickup a guy sans ring.  It just increases efficiency.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline BdHvA

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2015, 11:13:59 PM »
Of course; it enhances ability to flirt and pickup a guy sans ring.  It just increases efficiency.

Reminds me of the story a guy and woman at a party who start to flirt. The guys tells the woman that he is a man of few words and asks "Will you or won't you" She replies "Your place or mine" his answer is "If there is going to be this much talk, lets forget the whole thing."
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline Fashionista

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2015, 11:40:38 AM »
My story about my jewelry would have been longer if the place we bought shortly after my arrival to Canada was not broken in.
Find your inner Bart!

Offline mies

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2015, 07:46:28 PM »
Just curious. 

A friend of mine married a Russian woman.  She is notorious for not wearing her wedding ring in the United States when she goes out with her girlfriends.  Is there some tradition that allows the woman not wear her ring when she goes out?  Or is that just her being naughty?

I (almost) never wear my wedding nor engagement ring nor any rings in general. My fingers are slim, and the rings never fit right: either fall off or are too tight or too loose. Once I nearly lost my wedding ring, it fell of my finger when we were dancing with my husband and he "swung" me. Took about 20 minutes and huge stress to find the ring. Since then it stays safely at home.

I always carry a wedding photo on my phone to show, when men get annoying and start insisting that i am not married because I don't have a ring (as if simple "no i'm not interested in meeting with you or giving my phone number, I am married" isn't enough, right?). The phrase "show me your hands" makes my jaws clench.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 07:49:08 PM by mies »

Offline Darth_Budda

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2015, 06:01:50 AM »
I never liked wearing my ring...

When working with electricity,, Wearing a highly conductive ring on ones hand is not a smart idea...
We need a government of action to fight for working families!
Caleb Maupin

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2016, 03:52:58 AM »
Not wearing a ring in general is one thing, but taking it off when going out to party is the same as when a man takes his off when going out with his friends. The reason is obvious.
The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline BillyB

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2016, 08:25:05 PM »
I (almost) never wear my wedding nor engagement ring nor any rings in general.



My wife is the same way. Aloe, who's married, once said she never wears any rings. I never wore rings so somebody accuse me of being naughty.....please.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline alex330

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Re: The great engagement ring debate continues.
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2016, 08:37:40 PM »
Neither of us wear our rings. With our lifestyle and jobs it does not make sense. My wife may wear hers if we are going somewhere nice or she is having a girls night out.

 

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