The Struggle For Ukraine

[Chelseaboy]

 That Billy's wife is Ukrainian is interesting Billy's position I would be surprised if she doesn't support Ukraine but I wouldn't know. My guess would be that Billy may keep any support of Russia quiet like his lack of vaccine jab from her

I have noticed that many non-Russian, pro-Russian supporters are anti-vaxers also.


I suspect they're anti-west conspiracy theorists.


It's noticeable they're still not choosing to live in Russia though 

[ML]

I don't understand the logic of non-Russians supporting Russia.
Can someone explain this?

And don't get confused with some Republicans in US congress concerned about our budget deficit.  They are not against helping Ukraine and they are not supporters of Russia.  It is strictly a budget issue.

[Chelseaboy]

I don't understand the logic of non-Russians supporting Russia.
Can someone explain this?

And don't get confused with some Republicans in US congress concerned about our budget deficit.  They are not against helping Ukraine and they are not supporters of Russia.  It is strictly a budget issue.

I worked with a guy who was very pro-Russia.In every other way he was a nice guy,wasn't even an anti-vaxer either.


He was working-class,English and white,in his fifties,and just felt the west was corrupt in every way,and that things were less corrupt in Russia.


He was adamant that the thought of Russia invading Ukraine was just corrupt western propaganda..just like some of the posters on here who've now made themselves scarce to go and post on the pro-russia site,after being made to look as stupid as they are on here.


So, after Russia did indeed invade Ukraine,i asked him how he felt knowing that all he had believed in all those years was now shown to be so wrong.


His sole reply was "Don't you start,i almost split from my wife last night about this ".

[krimster2]

really ML?

it all comes back to the guy YOU voted for, and his ties to Putin
and the coverup after coverup that followed...

Trump and his supporters are all Putin afficianados
ask Tucker Carlson why he likes Putin so much, something about "anti-wokeness"

by voting for Putin's candidate, YOU helped his agenda
so don't go on pretending you are without sin...
you gulped down the koolaid just like the rest of Jonestown (tasty original flavory!)...

GazProm is funding anti-war protests here in the USA
under the guise of seeking peace
"think of the poor suffering people"
it's just as FAKE as the arguments Republicans have come up with about the cost of supporting Ukraine
with the same underlying intent

but instead of understanding this...
because you live in dumbfuckistan
you need to find a koolaid stand instead...

[Chelseaboy]

Russia is losing as many as 2000 men for every 100 yards gained in human wave assaults in Eastern Ukraine ,according to NATO Intelligence.


Source: thetimes.co.uk

[Boethius]

He was working-class,English and white,in his fifties,and just felt the west was corrupt in every way,and that things were less corrupt in Russia.

ROFL at anyone who thinks Russia isn't corrupt. 

Yeah, their president, who was driving a taxi after the collapse of the USSR, is now worth over $88 billion (reportedly) due solely to his prescient investment activities. 

The mistress he had a child with went from being a maid to a millionaire "bank owner" thanks to her outstanding work ethic.

Ask him how many millionaires with deep ties to Western governments have fallen out of windows in the West.

Please point those things out to him.

[ML]

really ML?

it all comes back to the guy YOU voted for, and his ties to Putin
and the coverup after coverup that followed...

Trump and his supporters are all Putin afficianados
ask Tucker Carlson why he likes Putin so much, something about "anti-wokeness"

by voting for Putin's candidate, YOU helped his agenda
so don't go on pretending you are without sin...
you gulped down the koolaid just like the rest of Jonestown (tasty original flavory!)...

GazProm is funding anti-war protests here in the USA
under the guise of seeking peace
"think of the poor suffering people"
it's just as FAKE as the arguments Republicans have come up with about the cost of supporting Ukraine
with the same underlying intent

but instead of understanding this...
because you live in dumbfuckistan
you need to find a koolaid stand instead...

You still didn't address the issue of why some normal people are supporting Russia.

Just because someone voted for X candidate does not mean they support Russia.

Yes, by voting for X candidate Putin may have been strengthened, but that still doesn't mean the voter supports Russia.

[krimster2]

and here's your answer....
the photo shown below partially explains the origin of Putin worship in dumfuckistan
repeat a lie often enough and it will be headlines for the rubes on Fox

but the REAL appeal of Putin to Westerners is fascism-LITE
fascism-LITE (all the great tatse of fascism, but less filling)
is a pushback to the AWFUL burdens of liberalism

le petit fascists don't worry over pronouns or equal rights
fascists yearn only for freedumb and the restoration of Christian traditional values (wink, wink) that are being replaced by liberalism...

liberalism and fascism don't mix very well, they have different densities
oligarchs choose fascism, cuz liberalism leads to socialism
which would make oligarchs extinct
and thus oligarch media will be anti-liberal

and that essentially sums up everything
the rest you can figure out on your own

[ML]

I have met no person in USA who supports the Russian terrorist invasion of Ukraine.

[krimster2]

well here, let me introduce you to your fellow republicans who support Putin more than they support the elected President of the USA

http://accountability.gop/ukraine-quotes/

they're YOUR people ML...
and I'm SURE you understand them just fine...

bottom line, as a former Trump voter, you are responsible for enabling Trump's behavior towards Ukraine and the damage it caused
you wanna see an American who supported Putin
look in the freakin mirror....
and it doesn't matter one bit if you were cognizant of this fact when you did it or not

[BC]

I don't understand the logic of non-Russians supporting Russia.
Can someone explain this?

And don't get confused with some Republicans in US congress concerned about our budget deficit.  They are not against helping Ukraine and they are not supporters of Russia.  It is strictly a budget issue.

I don't understand the logic either, but as krimster seems to state, it closely correlates with the nationalist/Trumpist movement.  Evidence abounds at 'another' FSUW-related forum, often promulgated by those who believe in conspiracy theories and related pro-Russia propaganda.  IMO, Trump is a Putin/autocrat wannabe, and his followers sing the same tune.

[ML]

To state once again what I have posted more than once in other threads:

I did not vote for Trump, nor did I vote for any other person.

Those who understand how the two party system in USA works will always vote a party line.

If some persons of your party are undesirable in some respect, you vote for them anyway.

If you cross party lines and vote for others . . . then you are voting for those who will seek to implement laws and policies that you oppose.

[BC]

ML,

I wasn't pointing a finger   The GOP currently suffers from the tyranny of a minority faction.  Unfortunately, this excess baggage puts national policies, supported by the majority of the population, i.e. Ukraine support and the debt ceiling, at risk.  This is the downside of our two-party, and nowadays, very adversarial system.

[krimster2]

you did't directly vote for Trump, because you indirectly voted for Trump, is something Trump would say...
doesn't matter...
all that Trump did is on people like YOU...
including Ukraine
including hundreds of thousands of dead Americans....
all on you
Make America Great, did you?

[Boethius]

I am convinced, and always have been, that Trump is compromised by the Russians. If I had to guess, I would guess it’s with money. The Soviets started working on Trump, allegedly, in 1980. I don’t find it coincidental that his first wife was a Czech who travelled there freely

[Chelseaboy]

ROFL at anyone who thinks Russia isn't corrupt. 

Yeah, their president, who was driving a taxi after the collapse of the USSR, is now worth over $88 billion (reportedly) due solely to his prescient investment activities. 

The mistress he had a child with went from being a maid to a millionaire "bank owner" thanks to her outstanding work ethic.

Ask him how many millionaires with deep ties to Western governments have fallen out of windows in the West.

Please point those things out to him.

We no longer work together.I did say i'd pop round and see him during last summer but i never did..purely because of his pro Russian stance.


He was an avid watcher of RussianTV for his news information..said western media outlets all lie to the gullible's..
Maybe now it can no longer broadcast in the UK he's being weaned off the Kremlin propaganda.


When i asked him how he could justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine his reply was that it was to liberate Russian speakers from the tyranny of the Ukrainian Government.


When news came out that the Russians were actually killing Russian speakers in Ukraine by firing artillery rounds into their homes and dropping bombs onto them,i asked him how he felt now about what the Russians were doing he just smiled weakly and said "yeah i know".


I think when people are set in their ways and beliefs nothing is going to change their mentality.

[Boethius]

I don't understand the logic either, but as krimster seems to state, it closely correlates with the nationalist/Trumpist movement.  Evidence abounds at 'another' FSUW-related forum, often promulgated by those who believe in conspiracy theories and related pro-Russia propaganda.  IMO, Trump is a Putin/autocrat wannabe, and his followers sing the same tune.

I agree with the above.  My observation is that Putinistas tend to not only be on the right of the political spectrum, but that they are usually racist (denying it, of course), and support so called "traditional" values, which really never existed and certainly don't exist in Russia. 

[krimster2]

all great artists steal their ideas from other great artists that they admire...
very little originality going on in the world...

fundamental problem of ALL oligarchies
how do you get the masses to behave for the benefit of oligarchs and not look out for their own interests (which are in opposition to the oligarchs)
huh? how ya gonna manage the masses?

Trump has to get poor people to vote for the economic benefit of the .1%
Putin has to get people at the bottom of the social ladder to sacrifice their children's lives for his vain ambitions

same basic problem, same solution...
you make sure the masses are all an ignorant bunch of dumb asses
then you can tell 'em whatever lame story you want
you just have to repeat it alot

this is the world dumb asses live in
sooner or later the red hats are gonna come for your kids
how do I know?
cuz they already TRIED TO TAKE MINE
and that's all I can say about that

meanwhile, a drone of unknown origin landed about a mile away from my former homestead in crimea*...
and now my old hangout at Inkerman, (I have some amazing photos of exploring the 1,000 yr old cave churches there)
has been taken over by the Russian military who are stashing cruise missiles inside the cave monastary
next we'll hear NATO has missiles hiden in the Vatican as well
and we will have a holy intercine religious war

gott is mit uns
if he doesn't get bogged down doing bog stuff

*major disappointment that I couldn't acquire this drone, locals handed it over to the miltsa instead of a collector
in Israel, I liked to collect Iron Dome Rocket fragments, local kids would scout for me for shekels, known as "Scud Crud" super collectible

[krimster2]

natural gas price in Amsterdam is at a 2 yr low...
notice how Russia no longer talks about an energy war
that's because there isn't one

[BC]

Germany, IIRC EU largest consumer reports:

The gas supply in Germany is stable. The security of supply is safeguarded. Overall, the Bundesnetzagentur views the situation as less tense than at the beginning of the winter. It is unlikely that there will be a gas deficit situation this winter. At the same time, preparing for the 2023-2024 winter is a key challenge. It is therefore still important to save gas.
Gas is mainly being taken out of storage. The total storage level in Germany is 71.86%.
Gas consumption in the week beginning 6 February 2023 was 17% below the average consumption for 2018 to 2021 and up by 8.6% compared with the week before. Temperatures were 0.1°C higher than in the previous years.

http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/EN/Areas/Energy/Companies/SecurityOfSupply/GasSupply/start.html

When the crisis came about, many consumers, households, and industries started taking a good look at their consumption and ways to save energy.  We did some things here at home and are consuming roughly half of the pre-war levels, without sacrificing comfort.

I believe the marketplace has re-oriented itself, and efforts to wean from RU energy sources is quite comprehensive and will continue.

With China, India and a few stragglers buying RU fossil fuels at very steep discounts, I think Putin greatly underestimated the resolve and resilience of the West and is in deep trouble long term as their energy export-driven economy winds down.  Things are catching up with him quickly, with the west investing in new infrastructure and sourcing.

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you." comes to mind.

[krimster2]

I have to be VERY careful when I talk to Russians both domestic and abroad, none of us can talk about where are children are and what they're doing and what they're going through,
even though this topic is foremost on our minds.
paronoia in Russia is REALLY bad right now, and guess what
in Russia this is normal!!
why are you asking anyway?

The Russian economy is sinking, autmobile production is down over 60% is just one sign

Before the war, Russia’s resource-based economy depended mainly on the exploitation of the country’s oil and gas reserves and other stuff ya dig outta the ground. The government saw the Russian population largely as service personnel for the pipeline going to the West: any profits from this would only reach them in the form of rather meagre rations and a cheap korean smartphone.

The Russian leadership, and the businessmen entrusted by them to manage this flow of resources, could live their lives separately from the common folk, increasing their rations from time to time and encouraging people with the talk of past greatness and present superiority over those on the receiving end of the pipeline.

everything succeeds up to the point that if fails and Putin gambled one time too many
and like every gambler who gets a lucky initial bet and doesn't fold
putin bet himself into a corner and his luck has run out
he is as SOL as he can be...

he can put Russia on a diet, minimum public spending on health, housing, etc but MAX on military and he has the reserves to keep the system running with current inflows for about 2 more years, but he will exhaust ALL foreign financial reserves
at that point, the only alternative is to convert EVERYTHING in the budget to rubles
and run  the ruble printing presses like mad, and watch inflation soar to 100% per year
by March, 2024, when the presidential election is held, Russia's GDP will be 15% BELOW what it was in 2014!!!!!
Hey Russians are you better off then you were 10 years ago????
LOL

think how much insurance payments, fur coats and bags of noodles the Russian Federation is burning through EACH DAY right now

tell china we will sell Taiwan Trident Ballistic Submarines (as many as they want with the nukes!) like the UK, if even ONE Chinese bullet ends up in Russia

since I've been forced to leave Russia I have not allowed myself to have any hope of ever returning (even though I have LOTS of reasons to want to)
my beloved October country
I was like a spark returning to the fire
only seen in my dreams now
like an old friend who has died
you feel warm and sad
german must have a word for this emotion

[Boethius]

I was like a spark returning to the fire
only seen in my dreams now
like an old friend who has died
you feel warm and sad
german must have a word for this emotion

Sehnsucht.

[krimster2]

Sehn·sucht,  hmmm oichen kuzna, with just a hint of nostalgie!
what better fare for dreams then this
a receiver tuned in to your own frequency
watching your old reruns
of happy days in a bright green Moscva park next to the river
especially with the right drug combination before bedtime to enhance lucid dreaming
into the arms of morpheos after the blood/brain barrier is crossed like the river styx and it gets to the far shore...

[Chelseaboy]

CNN reporting that Polish civilians are now rushing to get 16 days military training as they gear up to try and repel a potential Russian orc invasion.


Meanwhile Putler did his speech to his zombie nation today,telling them how the west started this war as we seek to end their civilization.( hopefully we may well seek that now actually after this latest bout of terrorism from them )


It does seem rather contradictory how a nation defends itself by invading neighbours with the intention of rape,pillage and murder of the inhabitants....but those Ruski zombies suck up anything their deranged idiotic leader says...or do they really care what the motives were anyway,as massive blood-letting from their military is rather cool anyway in their sick  minds.

[krimster2]

DeSantis should copy Putin's anti-woke message, oh never mind, Putin copied it from DeSantis
as America becomes more and more like Russia
and Russia becomes more and more like America
under the stewardship of global anti-woke oligarchies making the world safe for kleptocracy

the only surprise in the speech was Russia leaving the SALT treaty and preparing to detonate a nuke somewhere (in Russia...sure help yourself!!)

sure, if ya'll wanna start a nuclear arms race with the USA, go right ahead
remember the Pershing II missiles in Germany?  that's old news
now they'll be MUCH closer in Poland, Latvia, Finland, etc and one day even Ukraine
and yours will still be in...checking paper... Russia, another genuis move

Russia vrs NATO?
97% of Russia's military is currently occupied with Ukraine
and now ya wanna add the militaries from USA, Canada, UK, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Poland, and on and on... ON TOP OF THAT? and god forbid Luxumburg!!!
it's good the Russians still have that 3% in reserve LOL!!!

my simple spreadsheet model of equipment losses predicts
that by the Russian presidential election, half of all Russia's military equipment will have been lost, and the half that remains is the worst half and not the best
a year from now, and Russia will not be able to defend itself and with its industry crippled, it will take 10 years to replenish
any longer than that, and the Russian military will be so weak, it may not be able to fight off private armies and separatists that are only growing stronger
Russia's position gets weaker, the longer the war goes on
and conversely the West is getting stronger

the USA's LNG industry is eating Russia's lunch...
Lada can only paint the few cars it makes in either black or white, cuz they no longer can make the other colors (even the original orange!)

Putin never once in his two hour speech
mentioned ANYTHING about what the Ukrainian people wanted in this struggle
cuz he has recast the struggle as him vrs the evil west and its demonic wokeness
making it an idealogical war
instead of about grabbing territory from your neighbors cuz you can't figure out any other way of getting a bigger piece of pie
Putin is like Wile E Coyote, evertime he tries to throw a bomb a the road runner, it blows up in his face
and everytime he doubles down using more powder for the nexct time...
well...
guess what?