The Struggle For Ukraine

[BC]

One flip of the switch in Moscow, millions of Germans would instantly freeze. By the way, the word *German* needs changing. According to the US's snowflakes and numbnuts, that is just plain shameful!!! They really need to look into this soon and make changes. They should be referred to as Gerpersons from now on!

Germans are well prepared and have huge amounts of LNG and other fuel reserves.  IIRC 4th in the world. Although the reserves are somewhat depleted, they have enough energy to get them to summer.  They mothballed a number coal electricity plants as well instead of trashing them. They already produce about half of their electricity from renewable sources. Sure, it could get tough but they won't freeze. Certification of NordStream2 is on hold until at least June, giving them a bit of leverage as well.

Their military stance remains defensive in nature, along with supporting UN missions and humanitarian efforts for obvious historical reasons.  It will remain that way unless a direct threat is present, or article 5 of the NATO treaty is invoked.

They have been working for years to make the German language more gender neutral.

[Trenchcoat]

I remember a a couple of years ago a member seemed certain that war would follow the virus. He was convinced that Russia planned to invade Ukraine and that it would happen in February. It didn't happen in the year he suspected but he seemed certain that it would be coming in a future that time of year and seemed to have the inside track, perhaps he did. Could be that this is the time and could be this February.

While signs point to an invasion to me, I still wonder if the Russians are really willing for mass devastation to unfold on their doorstep at their doing. Even if they get the land of they are left with cities to rebuild it might not be such a great edition to the Russian Federation. Possibly I guess population could move into Russia but Ukraine's economy would be truely busted I'm sure.

[Davo]

While signs point to an invasion to me, I still wonder if the Russians are really willing for mass devastation to unfold on their doorstep at their doing. Even if they get the land of they are left with cities to rebuild it might not be such a great edition to the Russian Federation. Possibly I guess population could move into Russia but Ukraine's economy would be truely busted I'm sure.

Come on trench.... You’re hoping the invasion will happen and the economy crashes, so those hot young, mini skirt wearing models will be less picky about which man helps them escape Ukraine 😜

[Trenchcoat]

Come on trench.... You’re hoping the invasion will happen and the economy crashes, so those hot young, mini skirt wearing models will be less picky about which man helps them escape Ukraine 😜

Lol, thought never crossed my mind

Seriously though personally my situation is more suited to Ukraine not getting taken over by Russia in many ways. Possibly it might ignite a ban on westerners being able to visit Russia not to mention no visa-free independent Ukraine anymore. I personally would genuinely be horrified to see devastation being brought on Ukrainian people, some have been nice during my time there and it's not nice to see anyway.

If anything is going to happen odds are it will likely be in February, possibly early February. This article tells us that more Russian naval ships are out to conduct military drills:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/russian-warship-flotilla-spotted-off-norway-probably-bound-for-irish-coast-1.4786382

3rd - 8th Feb near Cork, Ireland they reckon. Could that co-inside with a Russian attack on Ukraine? A case of basing naval ships near western countries as a safeguard against any thought of western countries moving in to help Ukraine in a snap change of mind.

Boris Johnson can't seem to decide whether to send troops in or not in recent reports. I personally don't think he will send troops into Ukraine it's too much of a gamble I reckon.

[GQBlues]

So..if Russia invades and flattens Ukraine...as you think they will....how will that provide work for Western companies.?

That's a toughie...let me think.

Too bad the Nord Stream 2 project was so close to finishing. Dammit!!

[fathertime]

That's a toughie...let me think.

Too bad the Nord Stream 2 project was so close to finishing. Dammit!!

Since all us numbskulls have concluded it's all about Nord Steam 2/money, I would assume all the key countries in this also know. IF what we are saying is correct, then what does each country get for playing along with the charade.   Assuming there is no invasion, I wonder who is going to be the real loser in this 'fracas'. 

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

I know you're being facetious, but German comes from Latin - Germanus.  "Vir" is "man" in Latin, so no correlation.

Hhhmm…here I thought it was Germani.

Besides, there’s nothing facetious with current social progressive attitude in the US today. Sarcastic? Maybe.

It doesn't seem strange at all.  Ukraine is the country that will bear the brunt of any bellicosity, so avoiding it is in Ukraine's best interests.

Not sure how this related to what I said. ‘Strange’ was used to compare the distinct difference in the seeming attitude displayed so far by Kyiv/Zelensy vs the near-panicked coverage by the US media.

[Trenchcoat]

Apparently the UK Defence Chief thinks a Russian-Ukraine war is inevitable. He also is certain that there are a large number of Russian spies & special forces already in Ukraine, so the clock is ticking:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/special-forces-bid-save-brits-26048368.amp

The SAS are apparently over there practicing for an evacuation of British citizens.

Ordinary Ukrainians seem to be finally jumping up and getting involved in fighting for their nation including this old Mother:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-mum-buys-huge-rifle-26047160

Looks like she really went nuts and shelled out on some of the best gear going! Arms dealers must be making a fortune out all of this. With so much panic buying of guns & gear going on they might be a shortage of weaponry to buy soon like our big toilet paper crises.

Could mean though that more chance of the Russians just dumping their huge hyper thermal nuclear missiles on Ukrainian cities completely leveling them.

[Trenchcoat]

This Ukrainian General reckons that Ukraine may be most likely to be invaded around the 20th Feb when the Winter Olympics end and Russian war games in Belarus. Maybe, apparently the Winter Olympics are in China.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-general-hints-potential-date-26054672

I'm still not so sure, it's feasible but they may just end any war games early and not care about the Olympics and attack. The longer the Russians wait the longer the west have to send some decent anti aircraft and anti missile stuff.

He reckons an attack is not inevitable. After getting everyone worked up it might of course come to nothing.

[John Gaunt]

This Ukrainian General reckons that Ukraine may be most likely to be invaded around the 20th Feb when the Winter Olympics end and Russian war games in Belarus. Maybe, apparently the Winter Olympics are in China.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-general-hints-potential-date-26054672

I'm still not so sure, it's feasible but they may just end any war games early and not care about the Olympics and attack. The longer the Russians wait the longer the west have to send some decent anti aircraft and anti missile stuff.

He reckons an attack is not inevitable. After getting everyone worked up it might of course come to nothing.

Trench, you seem to the only person getting worked up about this.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, you seem to the only person getting worked up about this.

If you see the article on Ukrainian civilians buying guns then you'll see that Ukrainians are getting worked up. I think this situation has interesting elements to it such as foreign fighters getting involved etc.

I think for sure though that for us on this board that it's probably getting to the point where not a lot more will happen unless the Russians actually do go in. I think it's pretty much at the point where there is little more to get worked up on and we just sit this one out and wait and see.

I'll probably continue to contact Ukrainian women but don't think I'll be visiting until Russian troops have stood down. Hopefully Ukrainians won't end up going crazy fighting each other with all their arms they've bought themselves by then.

[Trenchcoat]

Apparently, it's possible to join the Ruskies as well as a foreign fighter:

http://coffeeordie.com/foreign-fighters-ukraine-russian-invasion/

Towards the end of the article it tells us about 1,300 have done so mainly from Germany, Serbia, etc.

So take you're pick, anyone here thinking of joining up on either side? Or out in Ukraine at the moment?

[Nightwish]

Come on trench.... You’re hoping the invasion will happen and the economy crashes, so those hot young, mini skirt wearing models will be less picky about which man helps them escape Ukraine 😜

no no no, if Russia in some way annexes Ukraine he would be forced to pay for Visa to visit, that is out of the question for the piss poor Trench, he told us so many times now.

[John Gaunt]

no no no, if Russia in some way annexes Ukraine he would be forced to pay for Visa to visit, that is out of the question for the piss poor Trench, he told us so many times now.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

[GQBlues]

Ka-Ching!!!!!

Here we go fellas! We are again in desperate need to feed the beast! Screw the citizens of Ukraine! The US is in supersonic gear to hasten this war and push you guys in the brink of massive devastation. Regardless of what Ukrainians or even Zelensky feels about their situation, the US is the ultimate judge of their welfare.

ONE DAY after the meeting held, this happened:

Russia-Ukraine Crisis Deescalating As NATO Countries Break From Bellicose US-UK Stance

http://zububrothers.com/2022/01/25/russia-ukraine-crisis-deescalating-as-nato-countries-break-from-bellicose-us-uk-stance/

Yet Nanci Pelosi didn't want to waste any time at all, despite the sentiment expressed about de-escalation.

"..hastening a war-friendly posture without opportunity for dissent as concerns over a military invasion abound."

http://theintercept.com/2022/01/25/ukraine-defense-bill-democrats/

Whenever there's a *bipartisan* teamwork legislated by our politicians, WORLD WATCH OUT!!! The US desperately need to protect our liberty and freedom and cash in at your expense.

Cute.

This is what the other aisle is saying and believe about the situation in Ukraine:

Ukraine’s NSC Sec. Danilov tells BBC_UA he doesn’t expect an imminent invasion and doesn’t share “the panic,” which he connects to “geopolitical and domestic” processes in the West: “The buildup of Russian troops [at the Ukrainian border] isn’t as rapid as some claim”[/color]

http://twitter.com/atanessi/status/1485668665211199492]http://twitter.com/atanessi/status/1485668665211199492

Another top Ukraine official says there's no imminent threat of a new Russian invasion. Danilov of @ NSDC_ua says West has it wrong. So is West blowing this out of proportion? Does US have intel it's not sharing with Kyiv? Is Kyiv deliberately downplaying?"

http://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1485680489591721997

If any of you still believes 2014 was a grassroot movement, go hug Fauci in the hallways. It took longer than planned, but those deplorables decided to get someone else in 2016 other than Hillary at the helm. But that's all behind us now, so onward to the show.

[Trenchcoat]

Russian Amphibious naval ships have entered the Med and look to be heading to the Black Sea:

http://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russian-landing-ships-enter-the-mediterranean-sea/

[fathertime]

According to good old CNN, Ukraine has had about enough of the US trying to fan the flames of war.    So if Ukraine is fed up with us, why are we still there pretending to 'defend' them? 

New discord between Ukraine and US plays right into Putin's hands

New signs of a fracture between the US and Ukraine over the imminence of a possible Russian invasion could seriously undermine President Joe Biden's muscular front against Vladimir Putin in their escalating standoff.

Frustration in Kyiv has mounted in recent days over escalating US rhetoric on the crisis, even as Moscow pours more troops into positions near the Ukrainian border. Washington and its allies have been waging an unusually open and vocal public relations warfare campaign -- an approach that primarily appears rooted in genuine fears of a major conflagration in Ukraine.

  http://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/president-joe-biden-zelensky-putin-russia-ukraine/index.html

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

The US/UK desperately need another ‘war’. It’s been 4 long months! Flatten Kyiv so we can again flood the region with weapons of war.

Ka-Ching!

[Trenchcoat]

According to good old CNN, Ukraine has had about enough of the US trying to fan the flames of war.    So if Ukraine is fed up with us, why are we still there pretending to 'defend' them? 

New discord between Ukraine and US plays right into Putin's hands

New signs of a fracture between the US and Ukraine over the imminence of a possible Russian invasion could seriously undermine President Joe Biden's muscular front against Vladimir Putin in their escalating standoff.

Frustration in Kyiv has mounted in recent days over escalating US rhetoric on the crisis, even as Moscow pours more troops into positions near the Ukrainian border. Washington and its allies have been waging an unusually open and vocal public relations warfare campaign -- an approach that primarily appears rooted in genuine fears of a major conflagration in Ukraine.

  http://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/president-joe-biden-zelensky-putin-russia-ukraine/index.html

Fathertime!

FT, Ukrainians are shitting themselves and are starting to crack psychologically. It's not just Zelensky, the funny man who no longer seems to find things so cheerful, Ukrainian girls I message online well at first they were acting not so concerned, now they are increasingly overtly showing their distress. It's got to be a distressing situation being surrounded by the military of a much more powerful neighbour particularly as time gets on and the build up gets steadily larger.

I think Zelensky is partly right in what he says I don't think the west care that much in whether the situation gets wound up so that both Russia and Ukraine get into a more tense situation.

That said Ukraine wanted help so they were partly to blame on that one also I think. The military equipment help might well end up causing Ukraine worse problems as a result unless they get lucky and Russia is dissuaded by it. Last night I was watching a demo of the anti-tank stuff we sent them, they have just begun training with it. I'll be honest, it was ok but I'm not so sure the range is all that brilliant on it, not for modern warfare where a tank can blast away from a distance away. It will probably take out some tanks and when it hits home it seems to do that but unless it can fire further away then I'm not so sure. I'm no expert on that stuff, the range was a fair distance just not really far from what I could make out.

Possibly Zelensky might be catching onto the fact that he could well end up in the pocket of either the US camp or Russia in terms of Ukraine being controlled by a puppeteer from behind the scenes. Sure they want NATO but my guess is that they won't be so keen on US money interests holding sway in Ukraine and calling the shots. They're best hope is in avoiding war happening otherwise either the US or Russia could become their new masters.

Ukraine becoming the playground of the US, an interesting prospect.

[John Gaunt]

FT, Ukrainians are shitting themselves and are starting to crack psychologically. It's not just Zelensky, the funny man who no longer seems to find things so cheerful, Ukrainian girls I message online well at first they were acting not so concerned, now they are increasingly overtly showing their distress. It's got to be a distressing situation being surrounded by the military of a much more powerful neighbour particularly as time gets on and the build up gets steadily larger.

I think Zelensky is partly right in what he says I don't think the west care that much in whether the situation gets wound up so that both Russia and Ukraine get into a more tense situation.

That said Ukraine wanted help so they were partly to blame on that one also I think. The military equipment help might well end up causing Ukraine worse problems as a result unless they get lucky and Russia is dissuaded by it. Last night I was watching a demo of the anti-tank stuff we sent them, they have just begun training with it. I'll be honest, it was ok but I'm not so sure the range is all that brilliant on it, not for modern warfare where a tank can blast away from a distance away. It will probably take out some tanks and when it hits home it seems to do that but unless it can fire further away then I'm not so sure. I'm no expert on that stuff, the range was a fair distance just not really far from what I could make out.

Possibly Zelensky might be catching onto the fact that he could well end up in the pocket of either the US camp or Russia in terms of Ukraine being controlled by a puppeteer from behind the scenes. Sure they want NATO but my guess is that they won't be so keen on US money interests holding sway in Ukraine and calling the shots. They're best hope is in avoiding war happening otherwise either the US or Russia could become their new masters.

Ukraine becoming the playground of the US, an interesting prospect.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Ukrainians are pretty calm and just getting on with life as normal.

[Trenchcoat]

Meanwhile, in the real world, Ukrainians are pretty calm and just getting on with life as normal.

They are getting on with life as best as normal as that's all they can do really. They are trying to remain calm of course but it's more a mask that is beginning to slip.

Here is the latest from a Putin insider who reckons that Ukraine would be finished within 48 hours:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10454611/Putins-build-forces-Ukraine-border-biggest-Cold-War-says-USs-general.html

With the devastating weapons at Putin's hands he may well be right.

[Chelseaboy]

Yet with all these devastating weapons Russian armed forces were defeated in Afghanistan .


15,000 of their armed forces  were killed out there before they had to withdraw.

[fathertime]

Ukraine becoming the playground of the US, an interesting prospect.

I don't think it will get to that point.  I don't think anybody wants that, aside from the US.

They are getting on with life as best as normal as that's all they can do really. They are trying to remain calm of course but it's more a mask that is beginning to slip.

Here is the latest from a Putin insider who reckons that Ukraine would be finished within 48 hours:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10454611/Putins-build-forces-Ukraine-border-biggest-Cold-War-says-USs-general.html

With the devastating weapons at Putin's hands he may well be right.

This will not happen either. 

Yet with all these devastating weapons Russian armed forces were defeated in Afghanistan .


15,000 of their armed forces  were killed out there before they had to withdraw.

In recent times, war isn't what it could be.   For example, Russia could completely annihilate Ukraine.  The US could have wiped out every single person in Iraq/Afghanistan and avoided defeat.  It just doesn't seem to work that way anymore.  Militarily Partial victory, partial loss is all nations seem to strive for. 

Fathertime! 

[John Gaunt]

They are getting on with life as best as normal as that's all they can do really. They are trying to remain calm of course but it's more a mask that is beginning to slip.

Here is the latest from a Putin insider who reckons that Ukraine would be finished within 48 hours:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10454611/Putins-build-forces-Ukraine-border-biggest-Cold-War-says-USs-general.html

With the devastating weapons at Putin's hands he may well be right.

Yes, the Daily Mail is such a great news source. 

[John Gaunt]

Yet with all these devastating weapons Russian armed forces were defeated in Afghanistan .


15,000 of their armed forces  were killed out there before they had to withdraw.

Traditional war fighting and weaponry is not much use against asymmetrical warfare and insurgencies.