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Author Topic: The Struggle For Ukraine  (Read 287902 times)

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Offline Chelseaboy

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #425 on: February 17, 2022, 04:18:31 PM »
All depends whether the ground has hardened since then by frost, etc.



It hasn't..it's thawing...ripe for a slaughter of Russian tanks and troops stuck in deep mud. :clapping:


As for Russian reinforcements well if he's already lost the 60% of his troops he has on Ukraine's border i'm not sure how wise it would be to send the remaining 40% in..it would leave his military in a right old pickle..





As the BBC news crew were driving back from the Ukrainian border to Kiev today you can see where all the snow is thawing in the fields either side of the road...it'll be a quagmire ;D


Air power would be Russia's big advantage...so let's hope the Ukrainians have learnt how to use those SAM's Lithuania supplied them with well.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 04:39:47 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Boethius

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #426 on: February 17, 2022, 04:32:39 PM »
There you go again. I’ve no idea how or why you make these broad statement that is simply shockingly false. You watch Rachel Maddow too much.

There are nearly 400 treaties made between the US government and it’s indigenous Native American tribes. Of which, IIRC, over 20 were broken inside of the year it was reconciled. Since you rely on Google too much, feel free to fact check my statement.

As for Canada, if you’re referring to the enactment/formation of TRC, crimes and racism in Canada still prevalently remains today. I can provide you mountains of proof of that statement if you like. Canada, like the US, is nothing more than a testament of what a horde of European white trash can do when given an opportunity to govern a territory. That is a fact, and a historical legacy of European strain.

To actually feel good claiming any monetary compensation is relevant as some form of reconciliatory tool in exchange for its evil deeds, is even more sinful and evil in itself. Share that reasoning to the survivors of the holocaust.

Canada even have an acronym for one of its genocidal acts, MMIWG. I’m certain you’re very familiar with that.

There’s no greater evil than absolute transgressions against the innocence of children.


Your country didn't enter into treaties with all bands.  Canada did, even though some of those treaties remain unfulfilled, and that is a travesty.  But that's not the point.  The point is, are you willing to fund all of these things?  Heck, why not make every person move back to the country of their ancestors, and let every nation sort things out.  No mixing of the artificial concept of "race".  No mixing even of the artificial concept of "ethnicity".


As for residential schools, yes, overall, they were horrid, as was the reason they were originally established.  But schools for non FN were no picnic at that time either.   In all, 150,000 children attended residential schools - not a huge number, given the total FN population.  I'm not dismissing it, and whether the school was bad or not depended very much on who was operating it.  I know FN individuals who don't have negative memories of residential schools.  But, most of them were close to "home".


No matter how much you google this, your knowledge will always be at best, superficial.  I have sat with elders.  I have worked with survivors.   I did a significant amount of FN work in the early to mid 2000's. The federal government still pays lip service to reconciliation, but all the real gains, other than treaty negotiations, have been made through court action.  Nevertheless, most survivors, and their descendants have stepped past this.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GQBlues

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #427 on: February 17, 2022, 05:16:09 PM »
Your country didn't enter into treaties with all bands.  Canada did, even though some of those treaties remain unfulfilled, and that is a travesty.  But that's not the point.  The point is, are you willing to fund all of these things?  Heck, why not make every person move back to the country of their ancestors, and let every nation sort things out.  No mixing of the artificial concept of "race".  No mixing even of the artificial concept of "ethnicity".


A croc, if not such a pointless statement. You made the allegations the US, unlike Canada, didn't have a treaty with its native Americans.

Quote
As for residential schools, yes, overall, they were horrid, as was the reason they were originally established.  But schools for non FN were no picnic at that time either.   In all, 150,000 children attended residential schools - not a huge number, given the total FN population.  I'm not dismissing it, and whether the school was bad or not depended very much on who was operating it.  I know FN individuals who don't have negative memories of residential schools.  But, most of them were close to "home".


BS! That policy began in the 1930s, ran nearly the rest of the century. Many of the children were kidnapped, taken without notice from their homes. Forced assimilation was the tip of the iceberg many of these kids faced. Being placed in these schools, and everything that happened after was evil. Many are still being recovered from mass graves.

Quote
No matter how much you google this, your knowledge will always be at best, superficial.  I have sat with elders.  I have worked with survivors.   I did a significant amount of FN work in the early to mid 2000's. The federal government still pays lip service to reconciliation, but all the real gains, other than treaty negotiations, have been made through court action.  Nevertheless, most survivors, and their descendants have stepped past this.

Funny. Steele Dossier / Russiagate and you deny you rely on Google. *Stepped past it* was a very predictable response considering, according to you, they already got paid monies.


 ::)  Imagine that.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 05:18:38 PM by GQBlues »
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Offline Jumper1

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« Reply #428 on: February 17, 2022, 07:41:26 PM »

It hasn't..it's thawing...ripe for a slaughter of Russian tanks and troops stuck in deep mud. :clapping:


As for Russian reinforcements well if he's already lost the 60% of his troops he has on Ukraine's border i'm not sure how wise it would be to send the remaining 40% in..it would leave his military in a right old pickle..





As the BBC news crew were driving back from the Ukrainian border to Kiev today you can see where all the snow is thawing in the fields either side of the road...it'll be a quagmire ;D


Air power would be Russia's big advantage...so let's hope the Ukrainians have learnt how to use those SAM's Lithuania supplied them with well.

You seem* with the hand clapping  to want a war ,and glee at the thought of Ukrainians killing Russians.
Its odd.

I dont think  that's how any of that would go down, *if they choose a full.scale invasion in modern warfare.
The slaughter would be Ukrainian troops.

Sam's are fundamentally useless in the big picture

Russian air superiority is in no way challenged in both taking out communications or key targets for troop support by those Sam's.
You think in any of the major engagement the USA/uk forces have been in the last several.decades the countries dint have equally advanced ground to air systems for defense? How'd that work out?.

The Ukrainian airforce would be grounded or if they choose to fight , shot down within an hour of altercations.

The tanks arnt going to be bothered by the weather. Who is going to stop them.on the roads?
They wont roll in until.they need to clean up and until.its safe*
They arnt used that way unless the air cover is complete.why?, the average lifespan of a tank crew after active combat agaisnt a true full force(air/sea) military?
It's minutes.
Good thing  for Putin Ukraine wont have that typical major power abilty.

This seems a day dream.of  yours of prepared Ukrainians in guerilla war and competent military with full airforce etc.
It's not reality of a true modern full invasion occurs(which is doubtful)
It's a major nation with a huge advantage in air superiority, naval superiority , and shear military might  facing a small border countries forces, and once run over them.a general populace of mixed Russian/Ukrainian.
Most of the cough* Russian lead in troops will be likely be paid Chechnyans , (as it was stirring shit in donbass right?) the mix of families  Ukrainian to Russian is too great.

I spoke with my wifes cousin there, he said war? Who will we be fighting?ourselves? Or coworkers from.a couple years back? Or cousins that live in western Russia?
Noone wants that here.
Maybe we would fight chechycen mercenaries, but who knows?
He wasnt the least bit worried about any of it and hadnt heard that much about it.

Granted that might be different in western  Ukraine, but it would not matter.


I know I'm absolutely not rooting for war, and I know if there is a full scale one there it will absolutely be Ukrainian blood that will be the majority spilt.

Flippin muddy fields wont change squat about that. This isn't 1940.

Ask those along the northern route out of Kuwait a few decades back , about how this really  plays out in modern warfare in  anything but a video game.
Its over fundamentally in an hour.5 hrs at a stretch. No ground troops needed (other than occupying force later)

Im.sure you  have no military background, and that's fine,but don't wish for conflict on some daydream.of Ukrainian troops slaughtering Russian troops, it's insane  to think that would happen. 

Again I dint think Russia will invade,  if they do ,it might be skirmishes in donbass for effect.
If they choose to actually take ukraine. Then they will.period.


« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 08:06:04 PM by Jumper1 »

Offline John Gaunt

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #429 on: February 17, 2022, 11:26:53 PM »
But, but, but, they did it too..........





Fathertime!

You’re beginning to sound like Moby now.

There is NO justification for murder.

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #430 on: February 18, 2022, 03:37:24 AM »
"Moscow has said it could be "forced" to respond militarily if the US does not agree to its security demands"

Here it looks like our reason for Invasion is coming from Russia, similar to what I was saying they might do last night. Apparently Putin is going to oversee Russia's military exercises on the 19th. Whether that will mean war then or soon after who knows. Olympic closing ceremony is on the 20th. That Putin has carried on with these 'military exercises' through the Olympics when he could have chosen another time without Russia carrying on in the background makes me think even more that he is serious about invasion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60428211
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 03:39:31 AM by Trenchcoat »
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Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #431 on: February 18, 2022, 04:37:36 AM »
You seem* with the hand clapping  to want a war ,and glee at the thought of Ukrainians killing Russians.
Its odd.

I dont think  that's how any of that would go down, *if they choose a full.scale invasion in modern warfare.
The slaughter would be Ukrainian troops.

Sam's are fundamentally useless in the big picture

Russian air superiority is in no way challenged in both taking out communications or key targets for troop support by those Sam's.
You think in any of the major engagement the USA/uk forces have been in the last several.decades the countries dint have equally advanced ground to air systems for defense? How'd that work out?.

The Ukrainian airforce would be grounded or if they choose to fight , shot down within an hour of altercations.

The tanks arnt going to be bothered by the weather. Who is going to stop them.on the roads?
They wont roll in until.they need to clean up and until.its safe*
They arnt used that way unless the air cover is complete.why?, the average lifespan of a tank crew after active combat agaisnt a true full force(air/sea) military?
It's minutes.
Good thing  for Putin Ukraine wont have that typical major power abilty.

This seems a day dream.of  yours of prepared Ukrainians in guerilla war and competent military with full airforce etc.
It's not reality of a true modern full invasion occurs(which is doubtful)
It's a major nation with a huge advantage in air superiority, naval superiority , and shear military might  facing a small border countries forces, and once run over them.a general populace of mixed Russian/Ukrainian.
Most of the cough* Russian lead in troops will be likely be paid Chechnyans , (as it was stirring shit in donbass right?) the mix of families  Ukrainian to Russian is too great.

I spoke with my wifes cousin there, he said war? Who will we be fighting?ourselves? Or coworkers from.a couple years back? Or cousins that live in western Russia?
Noone wants that here.
Maybe we would fight chechycen mercenaries, but who knows?
He wasnt the least bit worried about any of it and hadnt heard that much about it.

Granted that might be different in western  Ukraine, but it would not matter.


I know I'm absolutely not rooting for war, and I know if there is a full scale one there it will absolutely be Ukrainian blood that will be the majority spilt.

Flippin muddy fields wont change squat about that. This isn't 1940.

Ask those along the northern route out of Kuwait a few decades back , about how this really  plays out in modern warfare in  anything but a video game.
Its over fundamentally in an hour.5 hrs at a stretch. No ground troops needed (other than occupying force later)

Im.sure you  have no military background, and that's fine,but don't wish for conflict on some daydream.of Ukrainian troops slaughtering Russian troops, it's insane  to think that would happen. 

Again I dint think Russia will invade,  if they do ,it might be skirmishes in donbass for effect.
If they choose to actually take ukraine. Then they will.period.


I hope you're correct that Russia won't invade,and you may well be right...we'll see.




However,if they do,i see nothing odd about wanting Ukraine  to defeat the invaders.


That would require killing invading Russian military personnel yes ?


Or do you think if the Ukrainians stand there singing songs the Russians will turn round and go home ?


There is a misconception among many people,including you,that Ukraine has no possible chance against the mighty Russia..who couldn't even beat poorly armed fighters wearing sandals after nine years of trying ...somewhat later than 1940. :rolleyes:


"The small border country "Ukraine actually has the largest army in Europe...with 215,000 military personnel and they've been training for this for eight years with training provided by NATO.


As Ukraine has no Navy to speak of and a small Air Force i wonder what the largest Army in Europe has been training for ?


As for the SAM's you deride...well the Ukraine Air Force has lost many fighter-jets and Helicopters over Donbas....so many shot down by SAM's,that the Ukrainian President had to pull them out of the conflict there.


Additionally one third of a population of 40 million volunteered to train in guerilla warfare....that's a lot of people.






These are a people who've had to endure 14.000 people being killed in Donbas over the last eight years because of Russian-backed separatists, and saw Russia take Crimea from them.


A huge seller out there has been toilet paper with a picture of Putin on it.


You think they're going to roll-over to him ?


These are not Iraq troops who had no heart for a fight and just surrendered.


If Russia invades they may well take Ukraine..let's see if they can hold it.


If they don't hold Ukraine that will mean they've been defeated..just like they were in Afghanistan.


By the way i do have a military background..i was in the Fleet Air Arm with F-4's based at RAF Leuchars.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 05:36:26 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #432 on: February 18, 2022, 04:51:53 AM »
"Moscow has said it could be "forced" to respond militarily if the US does not agree to its security demands"

Here it looks like our reason for Invasion is coming from Russia, similar to what I was saying they might do last night. Apparently Putin is going to oversee Russia's military exercises on the 19th. Whether that will mean war then or soon after who knows. Olympic closing ceremony is on the 20th. That Putin has carried on with these 'military exercises' through the Olympics when he could have chosen another time without Russia carrying on in the background makes me think even more that he is serious about invasion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60428211


The Russian Ambassador to the EU  Vladimir Chizhov said a couple of days ago that the Belarus exercises will end on the 20th February and the Russian military forces in Belarus will return to their bases on, or shortly after, that date.
Just saying it like it is.

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« Reply #433 on: February 18, 2022, 04:58:33 AM »

It hasn't..it's thawing...ripe for a slaughter of Russian tanks and troops stuck in deep mud. :clapping:

...if russia was actually planning on invading...they would have already done it months ago with the element of surprise on their side.  They wouldn't wait until the situation became more difficult.     I don't believe Russia can afford to get involved in a military quagmire with little upside.  While this non-story continues to create headlines, I wonder what other stories are being largely ignored.  Nord Stream 2 seems to be moving along, China's belt and road is relentlessly moving forward.... all the while what great project are we in the US undertaking?

Fathertime! 


I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #434 on: February 18, 2022, 05:20:47 AM »
...if russia was actually planning on invading...they would have already done it months ago with the element of surprise on their side.  They wouldn't wait until the situation became more difficult.     I don't believe Russia can afford to get involved in a military quagmire with little upside.  While this non-story continues to create headlines, I wonder what other stories are being largely ignored.  Nord Stream 2 seems to be moving along, China's belt and road is relentlessly moving forward.... all the while what great project are we in the US undertaking?

Fathertime!


I agree with you..there is no logic in waiting until the country you plan to invade has been bringing in more arms to defend itself with.


Putin is many things but he isn't a fool.


The reason Putin took Crimea so easily is because he used the element of surprise.and moved quickly.


Why change what works ?
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Jumper1

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« Reply #435 on: February 18, 2022, 07:26:41 AM »

I hope you're correct that Russia won't invade,and you may well be right...we'll see.




However,if they do,i see nothing odd about wanting Ukraine  to defeat the invaders.


That would require killing invading Russian military personnel yes ?


Or do you think if the Ukrainians stand there singing songs the Russians will turn round and go home ?


There is a misconception among many people,including you,that Ukraine has no possible chance against the mighty Russia..who couldn't even beat poorly armed fighters wearing sandals after nine years of trying ...somewhat later than 1940. :rolleyes:


"The small border country "Ukraine actually has the largest army in Europe...with 215,000 military personnel and they've been training for this for eight years with training provided by NATO.


As Ukraine has no Navy to speak of and a small Air Force i wonder what the largest Army in Europe has been training for ?


As for the SAM's you deride...well the Ukraine Air Force has lost many fighter-jets and Helicopters over Donbas....so many shot down by SAM's,that the Ukrainian President had to pull them out of the conflict there.


Additionally one third of a population of 40 million volunteered to train in guerilla warfare....that's a lot of people.






These are a people who've had to endure 14.000 people being killed in Donbas over the last eight years because of Russian-backed separatists, and saw Russia take Crimea from them.


A huge seller out there has been toilet paper with a picture of Putin on it.


You think they're going to roll-over to him ?


These are not Iraq troops who had no heart for a fight and just surrendered.


If Russia invades they may well take Ukraine..let's see if they can hold it.


If they don't hold Ukraine that will mean they've been defeated..just like they were in Afghanistan.


By the way i do have a military background..i was in the Fleet Air Arm with F-4's based at RAF Leuchars.

Iraqi forces were the.4th largest in the world had  actively fought Iran for a decade were better prepared,and  far better equipped.

I'm not condoning invasion, I'm not hoping for one,  nor am I saying Ukraine hasn't prepared for this.

I am saying  oring thaw weather ,muddy fields would not  play a huge part ,and I am.saying with no equivalent air force they stand zero chance against a full.scale invasion (if one occured)
Yes Ukrainian air force lost to surface to air in what wasnot an all out war,let that sink in. Has any other major military's air been defeated by Sam's? No. Snd those are not going to stop russias air force from.taking out communications and strategic targets.

Now the aspect of occupying a country  long term is completely different , and that is completely dependent on the ,resolve, sufferage, or apathy of the people governed, as has been proven throughout history.

As far as Ukraine its been overrun and held long term  by a long list of invaders.
Do I think.if the populace entirely rejected russian governance  , they could oust them long term? Certainly.
But I'm not sure that's a realistic view of the population
This is a different scenario ,there are separatist ,it's not entirely unified ,its fundamentally the same people with many families and friends across borders.
There are of course a million factors,but the fact remains the Ukrainian government that the people have accepted over the last decades was always tied to the hip to Russia.This does play into it a lot.

I absolutely feel.ukraine should be
 Independent. I have relatives there.






« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 08:45:18 AM by Jumper1 »

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #436 on: February 18, 2022, 08:39:58 AM »
A loud siren going off in Donetsk today,with a Russian-backed separatist leader telling residents to evacuate and go to Russia via buses.


Another Russian-backed separatist leader has told residents to evacuate Luhansk also.
Just saying it like it is.

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« Reply #437 on: February 18, 2022, 11:52:52 AM »
A loud siren going off in Donetsk today,with a Russian-backed separatist leader telling residents to evacuate and go to Russia via buses.


Another Russian-backed separatist leader has told residents to evacuate Luhansk also.

Then that sounds like something very big is about to go down CB. Looks like we are definitely on the very brink of invasion of Ukraine to me. Odds are Putin as an ex-KGB guy is taking up the C-in-C for it rather than merely just leading the military training - there is no real need for him to lead the overall training which I any case is just a bs excuse to assemble their invasion force under it seems. Doubt it will be long till we see it all go down in Ukraine by the sounds of it.

Next 24-48 hours or so crucial I would say.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 11:55:16 AM by Trenchcoat »
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« Reply #438 on: February 18, 2022, 02:00:18 PM »
Bisen isn't a warrior and I believe he has ulterior motives. 



Yep. The cohesion of democratic countries. 8)
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« Reply #439 on: February 18, 2022, 02:38:58 PM »
...if russia was actually planning on invading...they would have already done it months ago with the element of surprise on their side.  They wouldn't wait until the situation became more difficult.     I don't believe Russia can afford to get involved in a military quagmire with little upside.  While this non-story continues to create headlines, I wonder what other stories are being largely ignored.  Nord Stream 2 seems to be moving along, China's belt and road is relentlessly moving forward.... all the while what great project are we in the US undertaking?

Fathertime!


Remember Anzincourt? How a superior army got its ass whipped by lesser forces? Almost same conditions months ago.
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Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #440 on: February 18, 2022, 03:05:57 PM »
Biden just said he believes Putin has decided to invade Ukraine...and will do so in the next few days.


OSCE says the number of Russian troops surrounding Ukraine is now between 170,000 and 190,000...the biggest build up of troops in Europe since the second World War.


Of course if Russia does invade it will show the World what liars Putin and the Russians are,as they've been saying they're not going to invade Ukraine .
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 03:20:44 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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« Reply #441 on: February 18, 2022, 04:16:55 PM »
Biden just said he believes Putin has decided to invade Ukraine...and will do so in the next few days.


OSCE says the number of Russian troops surrounding Ukraine is now between 170,000 and 190,000...the biggest build up of troops in Europe since the second World War.


Of course if Russia does invade it will show the World what liars Putin and the Russians are,as they've been saying they're not going to invade Ukraine .
My count has always been 12 divisions (180000 men) since mid january.
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« Reply #442 on: February 18, 2022, 04:34:16 PM »

Remember Anzincourt? How a superior army got its ass whipped by lesser forces? Almost same conditions months ago.

You mean Azincourt in French spelling or Agincourt in English spelling ?
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Offline John Gaunt

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #443 on: February 18, 2022, 04:46:24 PM »
Haha.  Got you to go low by merely challenging you! You like fellow submissive I reckon.    Poor guy. 
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Pah. There’s no taking the moral high ground when you side with murderers and terrorists, fella.

Offline Patagonie

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« Reply #444 on: February 19, 2022, 05:48:35 AM »
You mean Azincourt in French spelling or Agincourt in English spelling ?
lol, yep Azincourt
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #445 on: February 19, 2022, 08:20:12 AM »
Can someone explain to me why Ukraine would launch an offensive against Donetsk and Luhansk now and why they would be firing missiles into Rostov ?


We also have the ludicrous claim that Ukraine planted a car bomb under the Donetsk pro-Russian separatist leaders car,which conveniently exploded while he wasn't in it  :rolleyes:



All this while they have 190,000 Russian troops on their border and the Russian Navy off their coastline.


Well you would wouldn't you  :rolleyes:


Maybe the poster who says whatever the West says is propaganda can explain the Ukraine reasons for doing this.?


To me it just seems mad Vlad and the pro-Russian separatists are creating false flags around the Donbas region,whilst citing genocide there, to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine...as i predicted they would.


Of course Russia never comes out with lying propaganda do they ? :cluebat:
« Last Edit: February 19, 2022, 08:30:08 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline ML

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« Reply #446 on: February 19, 2022, 10:26:05 AM »
Can someone explain to me why Ukraine would launch an offensive against Donetsk and Luhansk now and why they would be firing missiles into Rostov ?
Of course Russia never comes out with lying propaganda do they ?

Quite simple.  Just ask a Russian or Russian lover.
Ukraine is actively attacking Russia on many fronts.
Their reason for doing so is to provoke Russian counterattacks which will bring USA to the Ukrainian rescue. 
Doesn't matter that USA has said it will not intervene militarily.

Get up to date here and think with a clear head !!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2022, 10:28:04 AM by ML »
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Offline ML

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« Reply #447 on: February 19, 2022, 10:35:02 AM »
Of course Russia never comes out with lying propaganda do they ?

And they never cheat or do anything dishonorable either.
Just ask any of their Summer and Winter Olympic teams.

But they do have a very distinct advantage in that they do not care how anyone thinks about them.

Unlike the crybabies during Donald's time who wailed . . . Oh my, the rest of the world is thinking bad about USA !!  :-(

Imagine the audacity of asking the Europeans to pay their agreed upon amounts into NATO.  Totally rude and unacceptable.  Better to let USA taxpayers take up the slack, so that we will be liked (actually hated less).
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Offline Muzh

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« Reply #448 on: February 19, 2022, 12:55:32 PM »
You mean Azincourt in French spelling or Agincourt in English spelling ?

Comme ci, comme ça
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #449 on: February 19, 2022, 03:11:09 PM »
It seems that Zelensky wants answers.  I would suspect that NATO isn't really interested in having Ukraine as a part of their commitment. 
Zelensky is also demanding that the US say exactly what the sanctions will be for Russia should they invade.   I wonder if Zelensky is speaking from his own mouth, or the US has asked him to make the statements.   


Zelensky: Ukraine wants 'clear' time frame for NATO membership

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Saturday asked NATO and the European Union (EU) for a firm and "honest" answer on his country's prospects for entry into the alliance at the Munich Security Conference.....
http://news.yahoo.com/zelensky-ukraine-wants-clear-timeframe-162724254.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall 

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