The Struggle For Ukraine

[GQBlues]

After being requested by Ukraine, in an instant, Elon Musk is regarded as a hero in this conflict by moving his Starlink station to Easter Europe. He promised to mobilize and add more stations.

Starlink

Thanks to Germany too for forsaking their domestic needs at this time in favor of Ukraine.

[GQBlues]

68F,  brrrrr
Ok.i needed a laugh today, thanks

Hah. You’re a Kali boy, you know it may show air temp at 68 but the cold northern wind makes in feel like you’re in the arctic. It felt like a San Francisco summer.

[BC]

After being requested by Ukraine, in an instant, Elon Musk is regarded as a hero in this conflict by moving his Starlink station to Easter Europe. He promised to mobilize and add more stations.

He didn't have to move his stations. Starlink satellites are orbiting the planet and ground stations in Lithuania and Poland can serve most of UA. Check starlink.sx  What he is sending is small dishes (terminals) used to connect to satellites connected to the internet.  I just installed mine the other day.  Am waiting to hear if it is possible to pack up and donate mine since I haven't yet cancelled my old service.  I'm posting using Starlink now. Portable, fast and stable.  A luxury here, but could well be a critical asset somewhere in UA.

[ML]

Quote from: ML on Today at 10:13:06 AM
I said this same thing to my wife a week or so ago.

I would go even further and evict those here with Green Card status.

There are several Russian citizens teaching here at the university with Green Card status.

Why would we want to take such harsh action against innocents....
Nations might then retaliate and decide to imprison innocent americans living abroad. 
I'm not sure I see how this would help but I can see how it would be detrimental. 

Two points:
1) You switched from my evicting to your imprisoning.
2) The Russians here are not innocents.  I talked with some of the Russian professors here back in 2014 and they said they supported Putin's actions against Ukraine.

[fathertime]

Quote from: ML on Today at 10:13:06 AM
 

Two points:
1) You switched from my evicting to your imprisoning.
2) The Russians here are not innocents.  I talked with some of the Russian professors here back in 2014 and they said they supported Putin's actions against Ukraine.

We should cancel every Russian, Belorussian, and Chechnyan student visa, and give them 24 hours to leave the US or be arrested and put in one of the ICE concentration camps for illegal immigrants.  They should also be banned from coming back to the US for 3-5 years.  This destroys the possibility of getting a US education.
Anyone with Russian/Belorussian/Chechnyan citizenship should have their visa revoked and immediately deported.

 

I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply you were talking about prison.   You didn't, but bee farmer did. 

I'm not sure it would be illegal for professors to support V. Putin and his actions.   In some cases, they may simply be attempting to restate his position on the matters.  In other cases they restate and completely support Putin.   It is probably still legal to do this.   

Fathertime!   

[Bee Farmer]

Ah you'll be off to Ukraine to fight as one of the many foreign fighters going there will you Bee Farmer? A 'War Tourist'?

I think with NATO you're not seeing the whole picture, sure NATO could destroy a lot of their Army reasonably easily but it doesn't stop there, Russia has chemical, thermal and nuclear weapons and there is no guarantee we can stop them. Russia still has thousands upon thousands of nukes that can destroy the world several times over. We can't be assure that we can stop them all or that they won't reach us to say nothing of the radioactive fallout. At best if we destroy Russia's army we may agree a ceasefire and a resolution bin Ukraine's favour as to press on and try to capture Moscow etc would like make Russia use Nukes and hence MAD. I don't think we really want WWIII with chemical, thermal, etc misery just over Ukraine. Ukraine can fight its own battles.

With all the weapons now being sent to Ukraine they've got everything they need out there now to put up stiff resistance to the Russians for a long time. They will still need food and water and probably bring money in to live off so it's not certain how it will all go but I think now Ukraine has every fighting chance.

Anyone with brains knows it's best to use the right tool for the job.  I'm not a professional soldier.  While it sounds romantic to go over to help fight, the reality is that my Ukrainian isn't good enough for my brains to be of much use, and that leaves being a sniper until my position gets hit with artillery.  I realize that I would be better off doing what I do best...which means I may be of more value during the reconstruction process.

Only a complete fool would even consider looking for a wife in Ukraine now.  You think scammers were bad before?  They are going to come out of the woodwork now.  It's going to take years and an enormous amount of money to repair the economy, regardless of how the way ends.

Any decent girl is going to want to stay and help take care of her family now.  She's not going to be interested in going to another country with some foreign guy she barely knows.  The girls who will be interested in foreign guys are only interested in a mule.  They want to escape.  They will not be interested in you.  As soon as they are out, they will drop you in a heartbeat the moment they have a chance at anything better.

And any girl you find is going to have full blown PTSD after this.  Do you realize how much emotional support you are going to have to give her?  That's just one big stress factor on top of all the other difficulties of international/intercultural marriages.

I think the only way a man should even consider dating in Ukraine now is if he had already started cultivating a relationship with a girl (and hopefully had met face to face) prior to this war.  You might have a chance at being able to continue building a relationship.

You also seem to forget that Russia is not the only country with nuclear weapons or a strong military.  You sound like the wimpy coward on the playground who is afraid to stand up to a bully because he might get his butt kicked even worse.

You also don't seem to understand logistics.  The moment a country says it is going to send military weapons to Ukraine, that doesn't instantly put the weapons in the fighters hands.  It has to get loaded up, sent to Poland, then loaded on trains or trucks, and then transported and distributed to different cities that are currently under attack.  Do we even need to mention that the Russian military will be doing everything they can to stop the flow of supplies to the Ukrainian fighters?  I'm surprised Russia hasn't started bombing the train system in Ukraine yet.   

[Bee Farmer]

I said this same thing to my wife a week or so ago.

I would go even further and evict those here with Green Card status.

There are several Russian citizens teaching here at the university with Green Card status.

I agree with you.  If they are a Russian citizen, send them back. 

I read an article.  The 'comfortable rich' Russians have created a Little Moscow in Florida.  They are worried they may not be able to buy luxury real estate in Florida now because of the sanctions.  A Russian real estate agent there said they didn't think the sanctions would be a problem, since the sanctions were targeting the elite Russian oligarchs, and these were just the comfortable rich Russians, and not the oligarch families.

So what?  Boot them all back to Russia.  Let them cry their hearts out that they can't enjoy the luxury American lifestyle.  Those are the people we need to expel, because they know how good life here is.  They will foment a regime change in Russia.

[Bee Farmer]

Why would we want to take such harsh action against innocents....
Nations might then retaliate and decide to imprison innocent americans living abroad. 
I'm not sure I see how this would help but I can see how it would be detrimental. 

Fathertime!

That's a risk they chose to take when they decided to live abroad.  Actions have consequences.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

I do find it quite ironic that you would even mention the 'innocent' Americans living abroad.  That is seriously messed up.  You sound like that stupid Russian spy woman the US arrested a few years back.  She was arguing that Ukraine shouldn't be handing out guns because a child might get killed.

WTF? What about the women and kids Russia is killing now?  What about all the innocent Ukrainians being killed?  And you want to play coward because of risks to a few bystanders, when not doing it will cause more harm to other bystanders?

When Americans choose to live abroad, they are no longer "innocent."  They chose to put themselves in that situation.  They accepted those risks.

[Bee Farmer]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply you were talking about prison.   You didn't, but bee farmer did. 

I'm not sure it would be illegal for professors to support V. Putin and his actions.   In some cases, they may simply be attempting to restate his position on the matters.  In other cases they restate and completely support Putin.   It is probably still legal to do this.   

Fathertime!

Read my words again.  I said their visa should be cancelled and they should be ordered to leave.  If they refuse to leave immediately, they get arrested for being here without a visa.

[John Gaunt]

Russia is being isolated in the Sporting World :
1. UEFA Championship in St Petersburg moved.
2. F1 GP being moved from Sochi plus Russian sponsors of one team kicked out.
3. Aeroflot has football sponsorship contract cancelled in UK.
4. Czech, Sweden refuse to play Russia in WC playoffs.
5. FIG suspends the Russians (and Belarusians) from participating in international competitions or from hosting any FIG championships.

Have I missed anything?

[tfcrew]

Quote from: ML on Today at 10:13:06 AM
  The Russians here are not innocents.  I talked with some of the Russian professors here back in 2014 and they said they supported Putin's actions against Ukraine.

[fathertime]

I do find it quite ironic that you would even mention the 'innocent' Americans living abroad.  That is seriously messed up.   

When Americans choose to live abroad, they are no longer "innocent."  They chose to put themselves in that situation.  They accepted those risks.

That is a weird way to look at it.  You seem to believe by living abroad you are guilty of something.   

   You sound like that stupid Russian spy woman the US arrested a few years back.  She was arguing that Ukraine shouldn't be handing out guns because a child might get killed.

WTF? What about the women and kids Russia is killing now?  What about all the innocent Ukrainians being killed?  And you want to play coward because of risks to a few bystanders, when not doing it will cause more harm to other bystanders?
 

Whoever this 'Russian spy woman' is, as a spy she obviously had an agenda so I wouldn't place too much value in her argument.   I don't see why in your head why one topic reminded you of another.   

Fathertime! 

[Bee Farmer]

Russia is being isolated in the Sporting World :
1. UEFA Championship in St Petersburg moved.
2. F1 GP being moved from Sochi plus Russian sponsors of one team kicked out.
3. Aeroflot has football sponsorship contract cancelled in UK.
4. Czech, Sweden refuse to play Russia in WC playoffs.
5. FIG suspends the Russians (and Belarusians) from participating in international competitions or from hosting any FIG championships.

Have I missed anything?

Roman Abramovich turned over the Chelsea soccer team to a charity(I think?) organization.

All the main boxing organizations have refused to sanction any boxing event in Russia.

The International Judo Federation suspended Putin as president of them.

[Bee Farmer]

That is a weird way to look at it.  You seem to believe by living abroad you are guilty of something.   

Whoever this 'Russian spy woman' is, as a spy she obviously had an agenda so I wouldn't place too much value in her argument.   I don't see why in your head why one topic reminded you of another.   

Fathertime!

Yes, you are guilty of something.  You are guilty of choosing to live there.  You are guilty of tacitly agreeing with the decisions of the government there.

If you can't see the parallel, then I would suggest you go remove your blinders.  It is the exact same mentality and line of thinking.  Your agenda is exactly the same agenda as the Russian spy's (Maria Butina), whether you realize it or not.

“Cowardice asks the question, is it safe? Expediency asks the question, is it politic? Vanity asks the question, is it popular? But conscience asks the question, is it right? And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because it is right.” – Martin Luther King

[fathertime]

Yes, you are guilty of something.  You are guilty of choosing to live there.  You are guilty of tacitly agreeing with the decisions of the government there.

So if that is the case, why wouldn't the Russians living here be 'tacitly' agreeing with the decisions here....why would they all need to be immediately kicked out or imprisoned...

Of course I disagree with your proclamation that Americans living abroad are guilty of anything.  Perhaps you can make a better argument that doesn't contradict itself from one post to another.   

Fathertime!

[BC]

A passport or citizenship surely influences, but doesn't define a person.

Propaganda is a huge part of the game, but we do have the ability to learn, change and adapt.

Whether one use that ability, or not is the true issue.

Democracy must prove itself stronger, and is based on inclusion rather than exclusion.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water is as undemocratic as it gets.

[Boethius]

Written in January of this year, this article seems prescient at this point in time .... http://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine

That was very interesting.  Thank you.

I found this op-ed from Russian writer Vladimir Sorokin interesting -

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/27/vladimir-putin-russia-ukraine-power

[Jumper1]

Anyone with brains knows it's best to use the right tool for the job.  I'm not a professional soldier.  While it sounds romantic to go over to help fight, the reality is that my Ukrainian isn't good enough for my brains to be of much use, and that leaves being a sniper until my position gets hit with artillery.  I realize that I would be better off doing what I do best...which means I may be of more value during the reconstruction process.

Only a complete fool would even consider looking for a wife in Ukraine now.  You think scammers were bad before?  They are going to come out of the woodwork now.  It's going to take years and an enormous amount of money to repair the economy, regardless of how the way ends.

Any decent girl is going to want to stay and help take care of her family now.  She's not going to be interested in going to another country with some foreign guy she barely knows.  The girls who will be interested in foreign guys are only interested in a mule.  They want to escape.  They will not be interested in you.  As soon as they are out, they will drop you in a heartbeat the moment they have a chance at anything better.

And any girl you find is going to have full blown PTSD after this.  Do you realize how much emotional support you are going to have to give her?  That's just one big stress factor on top of all the other difficulties of international/intercultural marriages.

I think the only way a man should even consider dating in Ukraine now is if he had already started cultivating a relationship with a girl (and hopefully had met face to face) prior to this war.  You might have a chance at being able to continue building a relationship.

You also seem to forget that Russia is not the only country with nuclear weapons or a strong military.  You sound like the wimpy coward on the playground who is afraid to stand up to a bully because he might get his butt kicked even worse.

You also don't seem to understand logistics.  The moment a country says it is going to send military weapons to Ukraine, that doesn't instantly put the weapons in the fighters hands.  It has to get loaded up, sent to Poland, then loaded on trains or trucks, and then transported and distributed to different cities that are currently under attack.  Do we even need to mention that the Russian military will be doing everything they can to stop the flow of supplies to the Ukrainian fighters?  I'm surprised Russia hasn't started bombing the train system in Ukraine yet.   

Not that I disagree with your points there...I actually think most are  generally accurate

But you also seem to forget the entire reason the K1 process was ever developed and integrated into u.s. immigration policy.

Granted TC is English.

It just ironic your take on women leaving and their motivations when the K1 was centered around military personnel, and often in war torn areas.

🤷‍♂️

[Jumper1]

That's a risk they chose to take when they decided to live abroad.  Actions have consequences.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

I do find it quite ironic that you would even mention the 'innocent' Americans living abroad.  That is seriously messed up.  You sound like that stupid Russian spy woman the US arrested a few years back.  She was arguing that Ukraine shouldn't be handing out guns because a child might get killed.

WTF? What about the women and kids Russia is killing now?  What about all the innocent Ukrainians being killed?  And you want to play coward because of risks to a few bystanders, when not doing it will cause more harm to other bystanders?

When Americans choose to live abroad, they are no longer "innocent."  They chose to put themselves in that situation.  They accepted those risks.

So by your logic the many times I've lived and worked abroad,  for various u. s.companies  , if our foreign policy changes when a new administration takes over, or they make some foolish invasion decisions,  I should not be able to rely on the closet us embassy for any support, and any nation connected with whomever feels harmed by u.s actions can imprison me or whatever justly.?
Do you have even the lightest idea of the scope of u.s contracted services abroad?
  So someone working in industrial.constuction in israel ,or Brazil, is not an *innocent* bystander because their company sent them.there for two.years on assignment?

You have a very weird perspective of how globally anything reasonable can work,or should work.

I've direct family in Ukraine and inlaws,,
Yet your stance on Russians legally here is beyond foolish.


I know plenty of Russians here that certainly do not support this invasion in any way shape or form.

Nor are they children of wealthy Russians.
There are close to 250,000 Russians within 150 mile radius of me,and roughly  half a million Ukrainians,not.to.mention a million polish,and the highest numbers of Lithuanians per capita in the US,  is the county I live in.


Have you fully supported every international move the usa has made?

[Jumper1]

Hah. You’re a Kali boy, you know it may show air temp at 68 but the cold northern wind makes in feel like you’re in the arctic. It felt like a San Francisco summer.

Yes I know lol, but we had highs of 13F here  last week,  it was a balmy 28 yesterday and actually did feel. Umm warm.

Regarding SF,
I told my wife when we were in our way to visit there previously that despite.our.winters ,I had never been so chilled to.the bone as SF in summer 🤣

[Jumper1]

He didn't have to move his stations. Starlink satellites are orbiting the planet and ground stations in Lithuania and Poland can serve most of UA. Check starlink.sx  What he is sending is small dishes (terminals) used to connect to satellites connected to the internet.  I just installed mine the other day.  Am waiting to hear if it is possible to pack up and donate mine since I haven't yet cancelled my old service.  I'm posting using Starlink now. Portable, fast and stable.  A luxury here, but could well be a critical asset somewhere in UA.

I saw he did that and that was very cool.

He doesn't have much love for.Russian administration,  I believe back.when he was  buying rockets from.them.early in space x, after a few trips one of the admins spit on his shoes  in an altercation over negotiations of price?
Something like that.

[Trenchcoat]

Looking at the video on TV off the Ukrainians tacking the Russians in Kharkiv I can see why Russia is doing so badly. Each time a column rolls into a area of the city they are in the open surrounded by concrete tower blocks. These tower blocks serve like huge concrete bunkers, many of them no doubt with people with guns so they are fired upon from virtually every conceivable angle. They show the Russian armoured column riddled with bullets and the Russians having fled. These tower blocks go on for many miles into the city so it's like the Russians are having to move through a vast concrete bunker network that towers over them and goes on for many miles.

Looking at the map the Russians haven't got far into Ukraine, not as far as they could have. It sounds like they are using the same failed strategy over and over again and getting the same result. If it were me I would surround the main cities and cut off their supplies of food and choke them out, yet the Russians appear too stupid to think of this. If the Russians continue as they have been I don't see their chances of success as high. That would be a good thing as it would likely humble Russia's over confidence and they would be less likely to be as aggressive in future to my mind.

[Jumper1]

It makes no sense that Russia would allow these weapons to be transported into Ukraine.   Given they have 100's of thousands of men on the ground now, it would seem they could control this sort of weaponry entering a battle zone. 

Fathertime!

 I know from.friends and family they certainly do not control.western Ukraine in any way shape or form at the moment, a few missle strikes does not control a massive border to the.west.
They may at some point,but they are far from it today. .
They are struggling with kharkiv in the far east of the country with a moderate Russian population.
The going will only get  tougher in more western Ukraine and a much  less moderate population in regards to Russia in general. .
Add in when they get extreme west near the  border it's mountainous , remote and good luck ever holding that region or.sealing the border.
Not saying it couldn't be done,Russia absolutely has the resources to do.so, but certainly would take a far  far more involved effort than they have done so far(which already  is quite a large scope)

[Trenchcoat]

Anyone with brains knows it's best to use the right tool for the job.  I'm not a professional soldier.  While it sounds romantic to go over to help fight, the reality is that my Ukrainian isn't good enough for my brains to be of much use, and that leaves being a sniper until my position gets hit with artillery.  I realize that I would be better off doing what I do best...which means I may be of more value during the reconstruction process.

Only a complete fool would even consider looking for a wife in Ukraine now.  You think scammers were bad before?  They are going to come out of the woodwork now.  It's going to take years and an enormous amount of money to repair the economy, regardless of how the way ends.

Any decent girl is going to want to stay and help take care of her family now.  She's not going to be interested in going to another country with some foreign guy she barely knows.  The girls who will be interested in foreign guys are only interested in a mule.  They want to escape.  They will not be interested in you.  As soon as they are out, they will drop you in a heartbeat the moment they have a chance at anything better.

And any girl you find is going to have full blown PTSD after this.  Do you realize how much emotional support you are going to have to give her?  That's just one big stress factor on top of all the other difficulties of international/intercultural marriages.

I think the only way a man should even consider dating in Ukraine now is if he had already started cultivating a relationship with a girl (and hopefully had met face to face) prior to this war.  You might have a chance at being able to continue building a relationship.

You also seem to forget that Russia is not the only country with nuclear weapons or a strong military.  You sound like the wimpy coward on the playground who is afraid to stand up to a bully because he might get his butt kicked even worse.

You also don't seem to understand logistics.  The moment a country says it is going to send military weapons to Ukraine, that doesn't instantly put the weapons in the fighters hands.  It has to get loaded up, sent to Poland, then loaded on trains or trucks, and then transported and distributed to different cities that are currently under attack.  Do we even need to mention that the Russian military will be doing everything they can to stop the flow of supplies to the Ukrainian fighters?  I'm surprised Russia hasn't started bombing the train system in Ukraine yet.   

There's nothing worse than someone who thinks they are too good to fight while others are only worthy enough to face being slaughtered Bee Farmer. Its probably the most cowardly excuse and we will no doubt hear others echo it like we have from BC of an actual Ukrainian be guy who is escaping citing that he is too worthy and so above other Ukrainian guys. Perhaps they should dispute that and all say stuff him and head for the border too lol.

Anyhow you're description of how it will likely be like post war is accurate enough so I'll give you credit there Bee Farmer. That said it is just what western guys have been suffering all along just on more of a heightened scale. Same answer hold true I think and that is to avoid the bad girls and find your way to a good one. To my mind the best way to do that is to be out there. If this war is over in a few weeks or months then I'll be on my way out there, to Odessa. Place myself in the best position possible by being a affluent guy living in a community where affluence has become a rarer commodity than ever. Now I ask you are girls going to scam me if I'm living out there in such a situation? Some might but many girls will instantly see the sense in getting with a guy like me, I would be a great long term prospect and they would want to get in before another girl did. That's how you turn such a situation to your advantage.

As far as the way Russia's military is operating I am surprised they are not all over the situation. Apparently lorries of ammunition was shown today going over the border. I'm surprised Russia doesn't hit it from the air, they would likely have to risk hitting civilian lorries of course. The help is being given and it looks like it will mostly get through. How well Ukraine can continue to do against Russia we will have to wait and see. I don't think though that escalating the situation by using NATO will help it will only cause a lot of bloodshed and misery by our own people. I also don't think our people are up for it as they'll look at people like you and say, 'if he ain't going to fight then neither am I, goodbye!'

[ML]

I think I have mentioned it before here, but . . .

the most vicious hand to hand combat I have ever seen was between two Ukrainian men (late 20s in very good shape) in an underground metro area in Kharkiv.

Wife says that Ukrainians are typically docile, but when riled they can act like that.  A lot of Cossack blood in many of them.