2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)

[BillyB]

BC and anybody that took a vaccine, if the government next week gives the green light for the non FDA approved experimental vaccine to be administered as a booster shot and advertises telling people to protect themselves and others by getting it, will you go get it? If by fall, the all new vaccine for the Delta variant comes out and it a two shot program, will you do it? If all new vaccines are created for the other variants, will you take those shots. It's possible the government may approve 5+ jabs of experimental vaccines in less than a year. Are you willing to take as many jabs as the government recommends?


There's a twitter bot putting out mass identical posts on fake accounts saying the government is stupid for lifting restrictions and we should go back into lockdown. They are trying to get the public to happily agree to go back into lockdowns.

http://trialsitenews.com/university-of-chile-scientists-study-indicates-sinovacs-vaccine-elicits-more-transmissible-potent-variant-called-lambada/


Study in Chile shows signs the vaccine is allowing the virus to become more vaccine resistant after mutation.

http://trialsitenews.com/university-of-chile-scientists-study-indicates-sinovacs-vaccine-elicits-more-transmissible-potent-variant-called-lambada/

[BC]

Study in Chile shows signs the vaccine is allowing the virus to become more vaccine resistant after mutation.

http://trialsitenews.com/university-of-chile-scientists-study-indicates-sinovacs-vaccine-elicits-more-transmissible-potent-variant-called-lambada/

Lambda seems dominant in Peru, who are quite slow with vaccinations.  Do we know if it started in Peru, or its neighbor Chile?

http://www.cbs8.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/lamda-variant-now-a-variant-of-concern-for-who-coronavirus/509-ec7ae541-0eea-406f-a02b-4f48806241ab

We do have a clue.. The variant of concern (VoC) called C.37 or the “Lambda variant,” was probably first identified in Peru about one year ago,  This from the article you linked.

In fact, the article you linked says nothing you infer.   Read it, comprehend what it really says.

[BillyB]

In fact, the article you linked says nothing you infer.   Read it, comprehend what it really says.

From the article....again. There is a chance the vaccine are responsible for mutations that allow the virus to beat the vaccines. Remember the fine print given to us by the FDA and vaccine manufactures, the significant risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown. We will know more when the experiment is over.


" The World Health Organization (WHO) reports that this mutant variant could not only boost transmissibility but also strengthen the pathogen’s resistance to vaccine-elicited neutralizing antibodies. It is not known yet what the impact of this variant will be, reports a new study, but the investigators do speculate that there could be a result of this viral adaptation to the CoronaVac vaccine, produced by the Chinese corporation Sinovac. That’s right: if this study is correct, the CoronaVac vaccine could be correlated to a mutation, one that’s led to a more transmissible and potent mutant. The authors suggest mass vaccination programs conducted directly in SARS-CoV-2 hotspots should be coupled with “strict genomic surveillance.”

[BC]

BillyB,

Did you see the words "but the investigators do speculate"?

Some sources say the Lambda variant was first detected in Peru in August 2020 and some say December.

Use simple logic.  I doubt anyone at that time received the Sinovac vaccine in Chile, but if you're interested, you can search yourself.

Here is a less technical assessment:

In a nutshell, these results indicate that mutations present in the spike glycoprotein of the Lambda variant of interest give rise to increased infectivity and enable the immune escape of this specific lineage from neutralizing antibodies elicited by CoronaVac.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20210708/Growing-concern-over-SARS-CoV-2-Lambda-variant.aspx

This does not mean that the Sinovac vaccine was the cause of the Lambda mutation.

The study has not yet been peer reviewed.  Sure, lets keep an eye out on it, but stop crying wolf, blaming vaccines and floating speculations as fact.  Such can be outright dangerous.

Bottom-line FACT: To date, no variant has been identified as having been caused by a vaccine. Of course, this does not exclude future possibility of such happening some time in the future.

[BillyB]

The study has not yet been peer reviewed.  Sure, lets keep an eye out on it, but stop crying wolf, blaming vaccines and floating speculations as fact.  Such can be outright dangerous.

They are keeping an eye on it. These early studies are important and people who have taken the vaccine are in the experiment. It normally takes 7-10 years to complete safety tests on vaccines. We may find out later billions of people's healthy immune systems have been compromised which is what vaccine experts have warned can happen. It's a gamble and we're gambling with lives. We've successfully beat pandemics in the past using other methods. Trying to vaccinate every healthy living person on earth is something new they're trying.

[BC]

We've successfully beat pandemics in the past using other methods. Trying to vaccinate every healthy living person on earth is something new they're trying.

Depends on how you define 'successful'.  Your Darwinian 'live or die' approach is IMO neither socially acceptable, nor prudent when the benefits, more than likely outweigh the risks.  Our only defense to dangerous viruses are vaccines.  We're not going to let COVID run rampant for a decade.  Not gonna happen, no matter how many times you repeat the same post.  We all know your opinion, so no need to sound like a broken record.  At some point, you'll tire from plowing the air. Pick the topic up again when you have some something solid..

Again, I'll respect your choices. Learn to respect the choices of others.

[BillyB]

No matter how many times you repeat the sales slogan the vaccine is safe and effective, it's not going to work on all of us. There is science on the other side of the fence that say humanity could be falling off a cliff and you want me to respect people's uninformed choices. Don't be offended when I try to educate people before they take a step off the cliff. FDA and vaccine manufacture's documents say significant risks and benefits are unknown, the vaccine is not approved and not all safety tests are concluded. If you buy a defective toaster, you can return it. If you buy a lemon of a car, you can sue based on lemon laws. If you inject an experimental vaccine into your body, you can't take it back and you can't sue. If you die from taking a non approved vaccine, your life insurance policy is voided and your beneficiaries won't see a dime. So while we're bombarded with good news about the vaccines, enjoy the occasional the news from the other side of the fence. It's not disinformation or misinformation or an opinion. You can read the fine print at government and vaccine websites for yourself. You can read and watch expert testimony from men who are smart enough to lead teams of scientists in the vaccination field.


If your government says you'll be needing 5+ jabs of experimental vaccines this year for full protection for yourself and others because the science they paid for says so, are you going to believe them?

[BC]

Everything you just stated, BillyB, is repeated, and I've already answered.  Cut n paste all you want, doesn't work.

[Faux Pas]

Everything you just stated, BillyB, is repeated, and I've already answered.  Cut n paste all you want, doesn't work.

That's a duck and dodge of the question BC, a fair question at that.

I notice you use a lot of "us, we, we're not going to" in your previous post apparently under the guise of the experimental vaccine is effective and safe. It is not proven to be either. This isn't polio or a seasonal flu. Highly tested vaccines btw that are not completely safe either. The covid vaccine isn't proven to be anything, yet. You, I and everybody is a part of the covid experiment whether we chose to be or not. Vaccines are not our only defense against viruses. You have been grossly misled

[BC]

That's a duck and dodge of the question BC, a fair question at that.

No ducking, no dodging.  You are free to click on past pages in this thread and review the discourse.

I notice you use a lot of "us, we, we're not going to" in your previous post apparently under the guise of the experimental vaccine is effective and safe. It is not proven to be either. This isn't polio or a seasonal flu. Highly tested vaccines btw that are not completely safe either. The covid vaccine isn't proven to be anything, yet. You, I and everybody is a part of the covid experiment whether we chose to be or not. Vaccines are not our only defense against viruses. You have been grossly misled

If you have questions about my usage of words in a post, quote it, so I can see what you're talking about and the context of the post.

Your opinion is noted, FP.

[Faux Pas]

Well the post provided by you wasn't exactly the same thing but, okay. I don't completely read the volley's between you two, just somewhat passively. Maybe you answered it elsewhere

However, the question here was a good one given your position on the subject. This science you seem to follow comes straight from the CDC and WHO websites. They are now saying those that have had any of the vaccines may need a booster shot for the variants which to date is (3??). The experimental vaxx is actually ahead of the booster shots they are about to release which is also experimental. Will you take those jabs as well if that science indicates you need it?

Btw BC, in your research before getting the vaxx, did you see the 32 pages of possible side effects?

[BC]

FP,
I don't believe CDC and WHO are recommending boosters yet.  I don't think you'll be able to find news on their websites, but if you do, kindly post it. I have read Pfizer is proposing such based on some additional testing and studies they performed.  Will I get a booster?  Like I stated 'elsewhere' I'll do research and decide from there. If I do decide to get a booster, it will likely be with another vaccine, maybe even Sputnik V.

I do believe that many might spend more time researching what grill or TV to buy than research and make informed choice, either for, or against the vaccine.  But I do believe, even those that don't research, rely on their health providers instead. Some do not have the skills, or even good access to the internet.  There is nothing wrong taking the advice of my doctor, but I research and ask questions as well.  After all, I usually take the advice of my trusted mechanic regarding my car and do the same.  If anything seems odd, I can always seek a second opinion on both counts.  Sure, there are plenty of internet fora for both medical and mechanical information, but like anything else on the internet, I tend to be a bit skeptical.

I have little qualm with those stating their opinions, even you FP.  But I do have issues with whomever makes statements of facts that don't add up, or rely on improbable, and unprovable theories that abound.

In the end, like voting, each of us, independent of whether properly informed or not, can make a choice and are not even forced to do so.  I'll respect whatever choice they make, but if asked I'll share my opinion and supporting facts I have found that helped me make my choice.

I hope this helps you better understand my position on all this.

[BC]

Btw BC, in your research before getting the vaxx, did you see the 32 pages of possible side effects?

As reported up-thread, I was fully informed of the risks for the vaccine I was given, those listed in the recipient/caregiver fact sheet, and from the MD that reviewed my medical history a few minutes prior to receiving my shot.  I believe the 32 you refer to is for all the vaccine types, about 5 or 6 pages of information for each type, mostly repeated.

[Faux Pas]

FP,

I have little qualm with those stating their opinions, even you FP.  But I do have issues with whomever makes statements of facts that don't add up, or rely on improbable, and unprovable theories that abound.

In the end, like voting, each of us, independent of whether properly informed or not, can make a choice and are not even forced to do so.  I'll respect whatever choice they make, but if asked I'll share my opinion and supporting facts I have found that helped me make my choice.

I hope this helps you better understand my position on all this.

Therein lies the rub BC. The vaccines aren't really even vaccines. They are drugs in an experimental stage and as I mentioned before we are all part of the experiment whether we want to be or not, both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Don't confuse emergency use with approved vaxx. Thus there are no facts at this point, proven or unproven, supported or unsupported. We're just one year into the trials. The early returns IMO are not looking to good for the vaccinated. I do wish you the best and anyone else who have taken the jab. The only "facts" or fact is We just don't know

I've understood your position all along. Understanding it doesn't mean agreeing with it. They are not mutually exclusive

[BC]

I can only refer you to the studies, with many tens of thousands of participants that were done prior to approvals and regular reviews since.  Emergency, conditional or whatever approvals by FDA, and over here EMA, provided the factual evidence and support for these agencies to conclude that based on the totality of scientific evidence available, showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic, and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product.

That you may not trust these entities, or opt to not take one of the vaccines, is your business.  Just don't misrepresent the facts.

As far as how you would like to name these medicines (for lack of a better word, not to be confused with drug), a drug, or vaccine, or moon dust, it matters little.  IIRC, the difference between vaccine and drug is that a vaccine prevents infections and/or lessens the effect of a disease if infected in the future, whereas a drug is used to treat people who already have a disease.

BTW, were you able to find factual support for your claim that 300 children died from the vaccine?  I don't recall seeing a reply on that topic.

[BC]

Just an aside note.

Using worldometers.info 7 day average, The USA is at 200 deaths per day vs 20 for Italy. Considering the US population is around 5.5 times that of Italy, it's not a good sign.  New infections 18,000 vs 1400, also not good.

This seems to reflect the effects of lifting restrictions, with both countries showing an upward trend in infections, likely due to the Delta variant.  Too early to draw conclusions, but keep your eye out on the data.  The problem with data is that it shows what has already happened.  Don't be deceived by low numbers of the past, the virus is gaining momentum.

Suggest you and your loved ones maintain prudent precautions, and of course getting immunized if you haven't already.

[GQBlues]

Just an aside note.

Nothing to worry about BC. Trump’s no longer in the WH. The rate can get 10 even hundred times worst, the media won’t cover it, or at least temper the severity.

The virus that should be a concern in the US is the new plague - Democrativirus-20.

Far more lethal to our liberty.

[BillyB]

Over 400,000 reports to VAERS of COVID vaccine death, hospitalizations, misarranges, and injuries. Only a fraction of the people actually harmed knows about this site to report anything to it so you can be sure the numbers are much higher. The amount of death caused by the COVID vaccine is higher than all the other vaccines combined for the last 70 years. Of course those vaccines passed all safety tests so it's expected death and injury will be far less than an experimental vaccine.

http://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

[GQBlues]

Over 400,000 reports to VAERS of COVID vaccine death, hospitalizations, misarranges, and injuries. Only a fraction of the people actually harmed knows about this site to report anything to it so you can be sure the numbers are much higher. The amount of death caused by the COVID vaccine is higher than all the other vaccines combined for the last 70 years. Of course those vaccines passed all safety tests so it's expected death and injury will be far less than an experimental vaccine.

http://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

Sad, if true, BillyB.

Sadder still if you consider Trump made sure to take credit for these vaccines, which is supported by yourself, too.

All these circular blame-game we got ourselves mired deeply in is likely the saddest of them all.

[BillyB]

Sadder still if you consider Trump made sure to take credit for these vaccines, which is supported by yourself, too.

I've never supported experimental vaccines. I doubt Trump ever seen the documents I posted here from vaccine manufactures and the FDA saying the significant risks and benefits of vaccines are unknown and not all safety tests are completed. I didn't see these documents until after the vaccines came out. If they can prove all safety tests have been completed, I'll support the vaccine.


 Trump is occupied with more important things such as saving this country. Experimental vaccines are currently helping and saving more lives than hurting and killing. That is a fact. Trump knows it and I can accept it. But, he probably doesn't know that a depopulation event can happen should these vaccines compromise people's immune systems a few years down the road leading to millions, if not billions of deaths. The vaccine experts I mentioned upthread are probably petitioning Biden to pause the vaccine program, not Trump because he can't stop it.

[BC]

It is a good thing that even the most remote possibility that a vaccine may have anything to do with a death, or hospitalization, or sore arm, or auto accident, or suicide etc is reported to VAERS to be weeded out, and analyzed for any correlations.

People get sick, and die all the time for many reasons.  Just because a VAERS report is made, doesn't mean the event is attributable to the vaccine. Some may well be, but many not.  I wrote a thank-you note to the Pfizer/BioNTech folks mentioning I only had a sore arm and an evening of chills after the second shot, and it was promptly recorded in the VAERS database. I received a follow up email within 24 hours and a form for my MD to fill out and return.  To me, that proves they are operating at the level one can consider an abundance of caution.

[GQBlues]

...People get sick, and die all the time for many reasons.  Just because a VAERS report is made, doesn't mean the event is attributable to the vaccine. Some may well be, but many not.....

 

BC-

I've said so many times before, trust the number. It will never lie to you.

You've asked BillyB for facts numerous times before, well here's one for you. According to VAERS (which you're thankful for having around to make the accounting) which you need consider for a minute..

The CFR of fully immunized (both dosages - received care/hospitalized), figuratively, nearly have identical death rate as non-immunized persons, of COVID-19. 2% vs 1.8%.

COVID-19 fatality reporting had a full year and a half to accumulate vs the vaccine administration. So technically, the fatality rate is literally over TWICE as fast for people who got vaccinated. Meaning it's (vaccine) is twice *more* lethal.

Is this factual enough to support BillyB's point?

[Trenchcoat]

Here in the UK we are supposed to be near fully unlocked on the 19th July. Seems that current concern is over not swamping the NHS with virus cases as they'll probably rise even further after the 19th. Currently there are 30,000 something known viruses infections a day and roughly in average 30 something deaths a day. The government expects hospitalisations needing ventilation assistance hitting around 1000 a day in a few weeks time:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jul/12/uk-covid-news-19-july-england-latest-updates

My Mother is not keen to get the virus, we have both been vaccinated twice. It's probably not a bad position to take as it might be prudent first to see how this all evolves as it's new territory in terms of effects of vaccine, variants, etc. I am moving to a new face mask, another soft one but one that is more air tight, it has two small respirators, and three layers of filter cloth, designed for use when cycling. I tried it out tonight and it works well, easy for others to understand me, pretty airtight seal and easy to breath through the two small respirators. So I'll be taking a step back for the meanwhile and see how things go, back to using more surface sanitisers also. I'll keep this up after the 19th as better to be cautious than risk family members health including my own. Might as well let others be the guinea pigs on this one

[BillyB]

More documents released showing Fauci gave over $800k to the Wuhan laboratory to fund bat coronaviruses starting in 2014. Of course he tried to sell it to the American public the virus was all natural.

Judicial Watch Obtains Records Showing NIAID under Dr. Fauci Gave Wuhan Lab $826k for Bat Coronavirus Research From 2014 to 2019 | Judicial Watch


Early last years emails show White House upset American money went to fund dangerous and cruel animal experiments at the Wuhan labratory with basically no oversight from US authorities.

JW-v-HHS-NIAID-Wuhan-June-2021-00692.pdf (judicialwatch.org)

[BC]

BC-

I've said so many times before, trust the number. It will never lie to you.

You've asked BillyB for facts numerous times before, well here's one for you. According to VAERS (which you're thankful for having around to make the accounting) which you need consider for a minute..

The CFR of fully immunized (both dosages - received care/hospitalized), figuratively, nearly have identical death rate as non-immunized persons, of COVID-19. 2% vs 1.8%.

COVID-19 fatality reporting had a full year and a half to accumulate vs the vaccine administration. So technically, the fatality rate is literally over TWICE as fast for people who got vaccinated. Meaning it's (vaccine) is twice *more* lethal.

Is this factual enough to support BillyB's point?

GQ,

You propose a good line of discourse, but before doing so, and I'm confident you will agree, it is important to understand the source(s) of data, what it represents, and limitations in this case the VAERS database.

Before we even attempt, could you kindly review information at the following link with an open mind?  http://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-viral-posts-misuse-vaers-data-to-make-false-claims-about-covid-19-vaccines/  It explains pretty well what VAERS data is and its limitations.  Also http://vaxopedia.org/2016/09/09/vaers/ and supporting links in the article.

In addition, http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html shows the results of CDC's evaluation of VAERS data.  If you don't read any of the above, at least read this one.

Just to prevent us from going on wild goose chases.  Or were you referring to another data source?