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Author Topic: The true GCG  (Read 91842 times)

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Offline catzenmouse

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The true GCG
« Reply #100 on: October 20, 2005, 02:23:03 PM »
Elena still owns her flat in Omsk and we have no intention of selling it. It's rented right now with the money going to the family to help out. Even with a very modest retirement income we would have more than enough to have a decent life there. The family has a big dacha and as I like to garden that would be a great benefit for me physically and for the family as a whole. They have a very close family and this has been much more difficult for her than she thought it would be. The only  one in my family that I care about any more is my mother so it is not a problem for us to hit the high road in a few years. I've lived in Alberta and Nova Scotia so the winter is nothing that I have not experienced before and the summer is a whole lot nicer than the 100 degrees + 100% humidity that we have here in Va.

I would also not be adverse to moving back to Canada but that still leaves us half a world away from visiting. Who knows, maybe in 10 years we won't even consider living there anymore but for now I think it would be prudent for us to see what we can start to do to make this a possibility.

Ken
"Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal."
-- Louis K. Anspacher

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #101 on: October 20, 2005, 09:57:17 PM »
It seem that some people use the excuse of the American politic for explain the possibility to life in other country...

But i think that the main reason is economical... why these people don't immigrate to Denmark where the life level is one of the more high in the world... simple, the life is very expensive, the tax around 70%...

I am honest with myself and if i choose a retirement plan in FSU, it is simple for a economical reason... with the money that i can receive for pension, i can life normaly in Belgium... but i can life very good in FSU... since i like FSU, i don't need to think a lot... but i go never complain over my own country... these country have allow me to life until now...

Don't use Bush for explain a move to other country... it is mainly economical reason... the possibility to have a high level of life with lower money... maybe we are GCB ( green card boy ) :P
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 09:58:00 PM by Bruno »

Offline anono

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« Reply #102 on: October 20, 2005, 10:10:45 PM »
i agree with you bruno, bush is just part of the problem. yes, it is an economical decision.

but under bush and this so called "patriot act", the attack on our constitution and bill of rights has never been more fierce. as james madison said; "if tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the quise of fighting a foreign enemy".

well, dumya made iraq a foreign enemy by attacking it without cause. how convenient to be sure of reelection because the uneducated, dumb and blind americans who believe this crap now think if you vote him out we will get attacked, as if the war in iraq is protecting us. how stupid can people get?

so now everything is going nuts in the usa, aided by hurricanes, all we need is another attack and the usa will be a dangerous place to live with all the nuts out there armed to the teeth, me being one of them.

 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 10:14:00 PM by anono »

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #103 on: October 20, 2005, 10:32:53 PM »
Bush... he is only a man who is now president... he go not stay there always... USA is there for always... if several people are not happy, the next time, it will be something new... Really, i don't like bush but i don't wish be in his place... pushed from all side with so much problem to regulate... it is not the actual president who is responsible of the situation... the problem was from long time before, when US have build people like Saddam and Ben Laden... Bush is only here for clean the shit from several decade of bad foreign relation...

Now, for come back on the GCG, i think it will be good to copy a past a text from my advice section :
Quote

Gold diggers are also commonly referred to as Visa Whores. While they are related to the opportunistic woman, they fall into this separate category due to their primary objective being a green card and not money. Don't get me wrong, these gold diggers want your money, but they want it in conjunction with foreign citizenship. In my opinion, Gold diggers are the most dangerous women of all. Because they are in the game for the long haul, they are exceedingly difficult to spot. The Red Flags may be subtle to non-existent, but the destruction they do financially as well as emotionally is second to none.

Whenever a relationship falls apart there are hard feelings. It's the easiest thing in the world for a man to accuse a woman of being a Gold digger after a relationship ends. The truth isn't always so cut and dried. While true gold diggers span an endless gamut of types, the classic forms fall into two basic categories: the Visa Whore and the Trader.

The Visa Whore is a total user. She has a game plan from the word "go" to get her green card and as much money as possible, anyway possible. She will lie, cheat, or steal to gain her objective. She might cop for herself, or her designs on citizenship may be to bring her Russian boyfriend to join her. Who knows? Always the consummate actress, the Visa Whore will use her body to keep you happy until she feels confident enough to spring her trap. According to the immigration laws of the United States the trap will probably be sprung by an allegation of domestic violence or with the issue of the green card. If the Visa Whore is the scum of the Earth, she will play the DV card, but if she is just a scum bag with a heart, she will follow the "Day 731" rule.

It's generally expected that a permanent green card will be issued in approximately 2 years or 730 days. The "Day 731" rule is commonly accepted to mean the day after the permanent green card is issued. At that point she is free and clear to walk out the door, file for divorce, get what she can get, and move on with her life. If you think it can't get worse, you are wrong. The INS has provisions for abused immigrant spouses. The law was designed to help in the event of real abuse, but in our politically correct society it doesn't always work that way. Even if you never harm her, a Visa Whore can claim emotional abuse due to a harsh word, a slammed door, or a threat to send her back to Russia. She can have you arrested and petition the INS to immediately issue a permanent green card.

Before I continue with the Trader, let me answer the question that you must now be asking, "Why, with all these possible problems should I even consider a Russian woman as an option?" First, I'm outlining worst case scenarios. Second, by arming you with this information, you will be less likely to end up in this terrible situation. Third, there are more honest women than Scammers and Gold diggers combined. Forth, any relationship involves some risk, and you can limit the risks by following a few simple rules of thumb. Plus, the benefits of finding a good Russian woman outweigh the limited risks. Fifth, what are the alternatives? A homegrown woman can leave at any time, file for divorce and take half of your money and property. Also, any woman, foreign or domestic, can file false DV charges. It's the price we pay for being born male in America.

While still morally reprehensible, the Trader differs from the Visa Whore in that she is more like an average woman. She wants to improve her position in life, and if she has to use you as a stepping stone, so be it. Remarkably, a Trader may not even realize that she is a gold digger. She believes it is normal to attach herself to a man who can help her to the next level and then trade up as soon as a better prospect presents itself. The Trader will accept any offer from any man who can get her to the west, all the while knowing that she will only stay as long as it is convenient to do so. Traders don't like to be alone. Like a little monkey that is afraid to release the branch it is on until it has the next branch firmly in its grasp, the Trader will stick with her man, but only until a better man comes within reach.

There is a subset among the Traders, and they are the Up-Siders. The Up-Sider is on the cusp of being truly honest. She will look at her prospects in her homeland and realize how few good men are available. She also understands how few men actually come from the west to look for a Russian bride. In her heart she wants happiness and a real relationship, but she can not help being influenced by her current conditions. Her up-side is a chance for a good man. Her up-side is the chance for a happy family. Her up-side is a better environment. She doesn't see a down-side, but she is not in love. The Up-Sider may even give an honest attempt at making the relationship work. She may not feel love in the beginning, but is hoping that love will develop. She will take the chance to realize her dream, but she also knows that if the dream fades, she is in a better position for happiness. I can hardly find fault in an Up-Sider; we all take our chances without knowing what the future holds, but you should understand that they are out there.

Can you protect yourself from a gold digger? The same rules apply as always: take your time, meet the family and friends, and heed the Red Flags. However, the answer really lies within you. Can you be logical? Can you show discretion? Do you have common sense? gold diggers rely on you becoming infatuated and not thinking clearly. They will use there feminine wiles. They don't call it being pussy whipped without reason. The key is to do your thinking with the head between your shoulders, not the one between your legs.

Red Flags are next, but before we go on I must mention one more despicable creature. The gold digger has a close relative across the fence in the Whore-Dog. You see, western men are not the only ones who must be wary of users. Russian women must also be on guard against men who visit Russia on sex tours. If a sex tour is your thing - go for it, but please leave the nice ladies alone. There are plenty of hot bar girls who will be more than happy to make your wildest fantasies come true, so there is no reason to make life harder on serious ladies than it already is. Don't be an ugly American.

 

I think that these text show the subtle difference between GCG ( visa whore ), the trader and the Up-siders... all are gold digger !!!

Offline Admin

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The true GCG
« Reply #104 on: October 21, 2005, 02:21:26 AM »
Please remain on-topic. These political discussions often erupt into nasty arguments that destroy the original topic.

- Dan

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #105 on: October 21, 2005, 04:57:40 AM »
Since the topic is GCG and I am off topic too, I appologize.   I think you were concerned about the political discussion Dan and I have a comment I wanted to make about the off topic discussion relating to living in the FSU.

Keep this in mind when considering a move to the FSU.  Apartment prices have gone up 400% in the past few years from what I hear.   Wages although still terrible have increased dramatically for many.  Buy the time many of you are ready to move there it may no longer be a cheap place to live.  Moscow is already one of the most expensive cities in the world. 

Personally I have little desire to live there.   Luda and I had some talks in better days about what we would do if she could not get the visa and I had told her I would move there to be with her.   If I had to move there I would probably look at Socci or somewhere like Odessa or Yalta.   Someplace near the black sea and a little warmer than some parts of Russia. 

I am not sure I ever want to retire.   For many that is a dream and a goal.  I sort of look at it like pre-death.   I enjoy what I do more than I enjoy any hobbies or pastimes or golf or whatever but if I do ever retire, I would probably look at Costa Rica pretty hard.

Offline Maxx

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« Reply #106 on: November 07, 2005, 08:06:01 AM »
On page one of this thread I gave a description of the modis-operande (sp) of a GCG. I am going to repeat part of that with something I wrote before.

I posted this on August 15th 2004. It is more complete and can be used as a map to spotting the Red Flags of GCGs during a marriage.

Quote

August 15th 2004
 
Very good question Doll, "what counts?". In other words define when a marriage scam takes place, right?

To me a marriage scam is when a woman comes into a marriage not with the intent of making it work but for immigration benefits only. A scam has an objective and a step by step plan on how it is to achieve that objective.

This is my step by step list for scammers:

1) Enter the country legally

2) Get all adjustment of status documents, social security cards, work authorization and driver's licences as soon as possible.

3) Move as much finances and funds into your control. Skimming money from the family budget into a money stash kept secret. Urge the husband to send money to "momma" for an emergency and so on. In other words act like a Visa/Ticket scammer only be very smooth about it.

4) Build a network of exclusive Russian friends kept separate from the husband. Tell them tales of an abusive and neglectful husband. Act like "Little girl lost" and get their support.

5) Seek out Russians of a lower class that will lie for you in court in exchange for friendship, money or sex.

6) Find a boyfriend. You will need his shoulder to cry on when things seem uncertain.

7) Do not get a job. More reason for your husband to be forced to support you later.

8) Get the green card by either two ways.

a) the usual wait of two years or

b) by making a false abuse charge against the husband. This of course needs to be supported by evidence. This would include 911 calls supported by faked evidence ie. self inflicted wounds (scratches and bruises), over turned furniture, holes in the wall, broken items. Do these right before the husband comes home from work and call 911 as he drives up the driveway. Get the police report of this. Get the doctor's or hospital report of the scratches and bruises. Get photographs of such. Before your husband gets out of jail find a local women's shelter for help. They will be glad to because the government pays them well for their services. Get them to help you get a protective order against your husband. Use your false witnesses during the trial. Do not utter a word of English during the trial. Use their interpreter. Play up your helplessness. Look disheveled and frightened. Make up wild stories of spousal rape, strangulation, hitting, pushing, threats, restrictions, fear of calling the police. Draw from your past experiences with Russian men and put this on your husband.

9) File the I-360 with the help of the woman's shelter. Within 3 weeks you will get a document called "A Prima Determination document" that will allow you and the shelter to collect County and State welfare benefits all re-embursed by the Federal Government. This document is a rubberstamp deal as long as you include some official evidence of abuse, fill out the half page form correctly and include the $130 filing fee. You can now self petition yourself without any conditions and get a green card and US citizenship as if you are happily married to a US citizen.

10) Use all the above in 8 to your advantage in the divorce trial. Courts are very sympathetic to "abused" immigrant women, especially those with dependant children.

11) Use the Affidavit of Support as a tool that your husband agreed to support you.

To me a woman who does the above is a scammer and should be investigated and if convicted sent back.

To me a woman who wanted to make successful marriage with her husband but it didn't work out is NOT a scammer. This would include women who are selfish, materialistic, mentally ill and so on. They should be allowed to stay and get their half of the marital assets and debts accumulated during the marriage.

Actually the INS has a provision for marriages that are done in good faith that end before the green card is received. It is called an I-751. Usually any marriage lasting more than a year and having some evidence of cohabitation and comingling of finances has a good chance of qualifying. The INS does not want to spend the money to deport women and children.

Maxx
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Offline Maxx

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« Reply #107 on: November 07, 2005, 08:13:21 AM »
My special thanks to Dan and the members of this board for allowing this important subject to be discussed in such an intellegent manner. Doing so speaks well of all of you.

Maxx

 

Offline Dutchy013

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« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2006, 06:29:17 AM »
Interesting amount!

Average income in Ukraine about $100 a month, savings about $5-$10 a month.

Takes a lifetime to get the money together

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« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2006, 06:42:05 AM »
Dutchy,

I think these numbers are somewhat outdated, and even then the low monthly salary amounts applied only to women.  Four or five years ago in Ukraine the average wage for a professional women was about $150 per month, while the average professional man earned 3-5 times that amount.   The numbers for Russia were somewhat higher.  And I'm assured by some friends there that things have greatly improved over the past few years.   I wouldn't put much stock in the $100.00 per month number right now.

sincerely,
Bunker

Offline ronin308

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« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2006, 08:34:41 AM »
Bunker my fiance made $300 a month.  Her mother makes the same.  Both did professional jobs (ie accounting) so while that number is low it isn't completely out of the ballpark.

I could imagine a woman working in a shop making something around $200 a month in Ukraine. 

That wasn't a true big city though where I'd expect the wage to be higher but so are the expenses.

Offline Dutchy013

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« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2006, 08:53:33 AM »
The number is not very important, it is depending on the job and location in the country.

Average income in 2004 was about $100, the last two years there was an increase of 20%-40% annually.

The point is, that is almost impossible to save large amounts

Offline Aventurero

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« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2006, 07:20:10 PM »
[user=764]Bunker Mulligan[/user] wrote:
Quote
Dutchy,

I think these numbers are somewhat outdated, and even then the low monthly salary amounts applied only to women.  Four or five years ago in Ukraine the average wage for a professional women was about $150 per month, while the average professional man earned 3-5 times that amount.   The numbers for Russia were somewhat higher.  And I'm assured by some friends there that things have greatly improved over the past few years.  I wouldn't put much stock in the $100.00 per month number right now.

sincerely,
Bunker
While this may not seem as a credible figure, the reality is that "average" is AVERAGE.. From a personal perspective, I find that trying to live in the USA on $5.50/hr also seems to be a ridiculous amount, but the reality is that Poverty is running rampant all over the globe.

You will have to remember that the average utility bills in the FSU may only run $5.00/mo, whereas the USA they are MUCH higher. Nevertheless, I know many people in the FSU who are living on $50/mo. While that may not seem possible to Westerners, it is an every day occurance there.

"Professionals" may earn more, but in general not much more. Nurses, Teachers, Police, etc... may earn as little as $50/mo... and in some remote places, even less.

Kind Regards...

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2006, 08:52:29 PM »
[color="navy"][size="3"]A few years ago  Larisa was a nurse making $50 a month. She now makes $200 a month as a  manicurist/ nail styilist.  She caters to relatively wealthy  clients.  -doug[/size][/color][/b]

Offline andrewfi

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« Reply #114 on: February 01, 2006, 01:43:43 AM »
When thinking about the range between rich and poor in Ukraine, and thus, hoiw many people live on a given (fictitious or outdated) low figure, it may help Americans, in particular, if they understand that they (Americans) live in a society that is VERY unequal. Ukraine, in common with other countries in the FSU is a much more egalitarian society in terms of wealth distribution.

For comparison, the gini coefficient, a standard measure for assessing evenness of distribution of wealth in an economy, is .41 in the US from a range of 0-1 and Ukraine is .29.  (For context, Sweden, largely accepted as being one of the world's most egalitarian economies has a gini of .25!) Thus from the perspective of the average American who knows, propbably without even thinking about it, that the concept of 'average income' is nearly worthless in his society, in that very many people do not earn as much as average wages there, when he sees figures of very low dollar amounts for average incomes intuits that there must be a similarly huge body of people earning much less than average wages. He would be wrong!

Firstly, given the insight of the gini coefficient, we know that a large part of the population has incomes clustered around average income figures and from other information we know that many in Ukraine, Russia, Estonia etc enjoy significant non-cash incomes that are not commonly found in the USA where wage slavery is the norm. That is not to say that most Ukrainains are not poor by US standards, they are, but it explains, in large part how a person can afford to pay for a mobile phone!

BTW, from what was written upthread, it would seem that the person used as an example is not paying $130 per month for her service, but instead $130 for the phone, bought on credit and for the service package. The phone will have been bought on credit. Mobile phone companies are at the spearhead of the introduction of consumer credit hereabouts due to their advanced billing and tracking systems. It might also be true that the person exemplified is a tad over stretched and also the figures have been exaggerated slightly to persuade the foreign boyfriend to be more generous than might be strictly necessary.

It might help the poster to take on board the insight that a mobile phone is a typical first gift between relatively wealthy man and his new/prospective mistress.

It might also help to realise that it is in the women's perceived best interests to appear as poor as possible, in order to appeal to the generosity of their new or prospective foreign sponsor. I have read stories of women renting apartments for a few days that they use to give the impression of poverty that simply is not theirs. If a woman is attractive but very dim, she may also be very poor. If she is unattractive, then you guys would not be looking, would you? If she is attractive and relative to the the guys chasing her, bright, she need have no worry about imminent starvation, even though she will, by middle class American standards be poor. You guys should not be and, I am sure, are not, bottom trawling. If you are not then possibly an reassessment of the degree of poverty of your mistresses, sponsorees, fiancees and penfriends may be in order!

A practical example: in Estonia, my GF earns about $300 per month, she has a home, two kids and a life. This is below average wages in Estonia, but this year, just as last year, she will pay for a two week holiday in Turkey with her own money, she will probably go to see Deep Purple when they come to play here, she enjoyed going to see Judas Priest a month or so ago. Sometimes she is very short of money, but she and her mobile phone get by!

« Last Edit: February 01, 2006, 02:20:00 AM by andrewfin »

Offline Dutchy013

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« Reply #115 on: February 01, 2006, 02:01:34 AM »
Andrewfin,

You are right about with your remarks. In 2004 and 2005 the Ukraine economy is developping fast and numbers of a few months back are already outdated. Real estate, telephone companies, etc.  are booming and thus credit companies are developping fast. I know in 2004 it was unthinkable for a lot of Ukraine people to take a credit.

My ex-girlfriend in the east of Ukraine, had no mobile, no car, a small 1 bedroom appartment in 2004, she had a supervisory position, just under the general manager, with a insurance company. Now she owns a car, a mobile, PC, etc. Just to indicate the fast developments.

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The true GCG
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2006, 03:34:47 AM »
Hey Folks - there was a big gap in posts - from Nov '05 to late Jan '06.

One of the weaknesses of this board software (in fact, most board softwares) is it does not have the ability to 'split' a topic.

Because we designated this a "Best of RWD" topic - and because we cannot predict the direction of future posts - and mostly because I did not think to Close the topic earlier, before I do so, I'd like to request that you move these latest posts over to a NEW topic.

- Dan

Offline golden25

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« Reply #117 on: February 02, 2006, 04:18:31 PM »

MAXX: YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

  My Marriage to Elena has many of the elements you speak of.

A: Elena's cousin Alek's became standoffish to me soon after elena got here, { after the bull crap Elena pulled on Alek's Husband- Aleks is now on my side] elena made russian friends in sioux falls who i was not allowed to meet, [ god only knows what she told them about me] elena bad mouthed me to my sisters, [ who of course told me everything she said]  Elena told My friend Marty's girlfriend Jackie that she did not love me and everything i had was modest, { of course Jackie told me} Jackie said she asked her - why are you here then?

B: Elena told me i was not being fair to her because the tires on the car i bought for her were no good they slipped on the ice when she stepped on the gas pedal, and the heater in the car did not throw heat the minute she started it up and the seats made her pooper cold. and i refused to buy her a newer better car, it was a 1997 ford contour,  I figured it was plenty good for a new driver.  Picking a fight and saying everything she had to say and when she was finished and i figured it was my turn to speak she would leave the room and then go hide in the backyard so i could not find her. I have 30 some pine trees in the back yard and i got over playing hide and seek when i was 8 years old.  Not sleeping with me because i snorned and farted to much, maybe she had a point, i guess i will need to take a tape recorded to bed me tonight and see for sure. she asked to me sleep in the bedroom down stairs, which i was dumb enough to do for about a week, i then got ticked off and told her { you know i have to get up and work for 10 hours , you will get up late 9 or 10 and
only work for 3 or 4 - i will come home from work at 8:30 pick sasha and bring her to school while you are still in bed, you could easy do this, and why she can't walk to school is beyond me  its only 1 1/2 blocks away, i guess if i wore shoes with heels that high and had on such little clothing i wouldn't want to walk 1 1/2 blocks either. So therefore i will sleep in the good bed you can choose to sleep with me or without me}  Elena slept with Sasha from then on, i was glad i slept much better without her. She never really did anything that embarased me in the sex dept, but the sex thing is a whole other story i not sure i am up to sharing here.  FLIRTING WITH MY FRIEND JAY, then Jay avoiding me, I play guitar in a rock band - finding out from my other friends Jay is comeing over to my house when the band is playing a gig somewhere, Jay telling people he had a thing going with my wife. Elena not being able to go to the Gig with me  because the places we played had to much smoke and it hurt her eyes, and because we americans don't know how to dance and party, I am a good dancer
[ except if i got to drinking to much i would do the russian dance where men haunch down and kick there legs out if front of them without loosing their balance except i would do it sitting on a chair.  I thought it was funny:cool:] note- elena often would send me to the store to get her smokes, and i was not allowed to tell  Sasha she had them, i was supposed tell sasha they were mine, how ever i think Sasha was wise to the fact that men don't smoke virgina slims, i normally smoke cigars{ in normal families the kids smoke and hide it from the parents- here the adult smoked and hid it from the kid}  

   Elena of course called 911 but only after i did since the SUKA tried to choke me, then dialed 911 again after i was arrested and told the EMT squad she was having a heart attach for which i paid for a $540.00 ambulance ride to the local hospital where they couldn't find anything wrong with her so the emergency room people called the police and had the police bring them to the wemons shelter for which after 2 days the local wemons shelter told them they had to leave and then they proceeded to destroy Alek's life. 

Sorry for going off on a rant like this But Dam this feels good writing all of this and getting this off my chest, when i try to get this off my chest to my sisters they just keep telling me I TOLD YOU SO.



Quote from: Maxx

For those who wish to go the DV route:

A) Establish with their "friends" that their husbands are abusive and/or neglectful. A big tip off that this is happening is that their friends are standoffish, cold and somewhat hostile towards the husband.

B) Picking fights about the smallest of things (even good RW do this) then postition herself to make it escalate into something worse. Such as destruction of his property, locking him out of his house or on to the balcony, standing in front of the door when he is trying to leave, humiliating him sexually during sex, flirting with other men, insisting on sleeping apart and so on. Any reaction to this by the man this can trigger a 911 call.

C) Going to woman's shelter or doing a 911 call. It has the same effect.

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Re: The true GCG
« Reply #118 on: May 07, 2006, 07:35:54 AM »
I am going to close this topic to future posts. The topic has proven to be quite informative, and should not be diluted with any future expansions. Those may be posted elsewhere, and references to this topic as appropriate.

- Dan

 

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