What would you do if this happen to you? Pt 1.

[Turboguy]

Well it seems to me that I can find any kind of discussion in any thread.  It is entertaining and informative and does make you think.  I think Wxman's analasis about 5 posts up is the best one I have seen so far.  I don't buy Leslie's theory that it makes KG look bad.  They have shown concern for their customer.  A lot of agencys would not have cared or gotten involved.  However KG comes out in the end, I have no problem with it.  I hope it has a happier ending than I think it will.

[Bruno]

Leslie,

Your assessment of this situation may very well be "dead on". I never thought about it like that, and it does seem logical. We will see how the story unfolds.

These storie is already finish and Kevin know what is the end since he wrote in his first post :

And then I'll tell you what we did and he did. It goes to take at least 5 parts to get though this.

Already two part post... 3 to go... I bet on the Leslie pronostic...

[brent23]

What is really strange and the most telling is she was not there to meet him at the airport when he and the family arrived.  It is very low class not to meet incoming friends at the airport/train without explanation.

I would send the family to Kiev to start site seeing so that their time is not wasted.  No sense in them tagging along to watch his further humiliation.  You got to contact the father in person because he is the only one that you have talked with.  I would go to this beach and try to find her but not hold much hope for her.

I tend to agree with WXman.  Family will lie to protect their daughter's interests.  A fiancee may not be able to call you every day but at least a hand written letter from even the smallest village should be possible.

It highly likely she has another boyfriend on the line.  Perhaps an other westerner.  The dad is trying to keep her options open for her.

[Kevin]

Before I post Pt3. I wanted to make a few comments. For starters this was posted live in my discussion group as it was happening a week ago. It was a good learning experience for everyone. I posted this on this forum to show people what can really happen in the real world as it story is still going on today.  It was not an advertisement or an agency promotion but a real life case that happen recently. For those who continue to call my posting advertisement please stop reading so other can learn from them.  People are posting for additional facts. other then the ages.  The lady is around 22 and the client is around 32.   The rest of the story is based on the fact I had at the time frame mention.  When we loose contact with a lady for no reason and the family isn't able to make reliable contact also it is not only hard on the client but the agency. I can assure you we did everything possible to find this lady and help the client. It was the client own insight that lead to the finally outcome.  Beware that the client was the last to see the lady is a trip to Kiev that did not involved the agency.

The purpose of this trip report is to give people something to think about and talk about. As you will see in Pt 3 the outcome wasn't anything anyone expected nor could any advice or action by all parties changed it with the limited information we had prior to it.

Read and learn.  It might happen to you someday.

[Kevin]

Well lets continue as this seem to be getting more interested.

At this point the family is ready to head back to Kiev, The client isn't  ready to call it quits and continues his search. We've got the family train tickets for the following day. No luck on finding the lady and it doesn't  look good.

At this point I am thinking. 1. Low grad scam. 2. Family attempt for an arrange marriage and the lady skipped out. 3. Foul play and the lady is missing. 4. The lady isn't aware the client is in town. Overall it didn't  look good for the client. But we also was aware the lady has limit or no money and might be hitch hiking her way back to Kherson. I could only suggest waiting 2 days max. The client had no desire to meet any other  ladies. He was sure it was real love.

Some of you guys are asking about more facts. The problem at this point is  we haven't any. What we are getting from the father which isn't much since he either doesn't know or isn't telling us. He seem to be concern and seem to like the client. Just things aren't adding up.

Most of you guys are thinking the same thing the client is at this point.  Everything was great on the last visit and suddenly the lady drop off the planet and the parents can't even find her. What could had happen?

Ok, let's continue.

As in Pt 2 we had a few options. The client and myself didn't feel right
about the father info. He had suggested that his daughter might be working
at the local beach area with a friend and wanted to go the following morning
and look for her. At the same time we were consider that the family might
had been trying to force a relationship, foul play or a scam. Things just
didn't add up. So the client decide to send the family back to Kiev and
continue the search. He decided to leave the following day with an
interpreter to the beach without the father. He didn't want any outside
influence when he found her and if the father was somehow involved in her
disappearance he wanted to take her someplace safe....

After 4hrs of searching an area about 1 mile long checking every store and
cafe he wasn't able to find her and return back to the office very
concerned. I meet him at the office and we were all very confused about the
wild goose case and had no ideal what the motivation could be for the father
sending him on it. So we decided it was time to find another source of
information. Since the father mention she might be with a friend and we
haven't spoke to any other family members we decide to head to the village
and start asking questions. The client with my Director (Yana) an
interpreter and a local driver they headed to the village to find her
step-mother or best friend mother. The father had mention she was with a
friend but didn't seem to know her friend phone number.

And this is where the story gets interesting.

Upon arrival they made contact with the Step Mother. Ok,,, Now takes notes
as this will make a great movie some day. The step-mother had received a
call early the same day. It appears that a local men had the lady cell
phone, passport and will not let the lady leave her apartment... (I'm going
to keep the info at the stage as we've received it).. It appear that the
lady X boyfriend who is still in love with her had heard about her
engagement whereas he decided that she isn't going to leave. He took her
phone, passport and because of the location where she lived their was no
way to call the office. With no money and just becoming aware that the
client was in kherson she was trying to find a way to Kherson. (She was
aware of the month but not the exact date of the wedding before she lost
contact) This is why our calls to her cell phone weren't being answered and
limited calls from the father where answer when he allowed it. You can
image the frustration of the client and his question on what is really going
on. My director Yana (those who meet her understand she is a very strong
women) "Nicely" informed the men that the lady would be leaving and meeting
the client to following day. Otherwise the local Police would be at his door
in the morning. My first question was why hadn't the family already called
the police. The client returned to the office to await her arrival whereas
his family members cancel the non-refundable train tickets to wait and see
what happens.

I'm going to leave the reunion to Pt 4. But as you can image what this
client is going though. He meet a lady and everything was great and when he
planned to return and start the process for marriage she disappears. She
knew the month he would return but couldn't remember the exact date as it
wasn't confirmed until after he left Kiev and she wasn't in contact with the
office to get her letters with the date on it. Now he found her the client
still doesn't understand what is going on and the fact that he is being told
that she was kidnapped by a jealous X-Boyfriend makes things almost like a
scrip from a bad movie.

The family and office wait as the taxi goes and get her and bring her back
to Kherson.

[Manny]

next installment please?

[Durk]

        I have to agree with Manny here. Next part please! 

                         
                                                                              D

[PeeWee]

Seems the father is easy enough to contact. I'd call the guy myself and ask him what was going on. I'd tell him to tell her that if she did not figure out a way to communicate then do svidanya sweetcakes. She did not leave the planet so even though she lost the cell phone she can at least hit the local Internet cafe and crank out a letter or two.

If I was not satisfied with the father's response and if I had not heard from her I would write her off and start over. I really did not have that much time invested in her anyway. It sounds like she got cold feet and made herself unavailable on purpose.

Peewee

[wiz]

Nothing New.... about it!

One of the many Ukrainian scams........

If the director Yana is so strong why didn't she took action there and then if it was a case of forceful abduction (Kidnapping)?

Ah she was afraid of her own safety.....you will say.

Did Yana spoke to the woman?.....I think Not!

Father not worried about his own daughter????.......very far fetched!

I bet the American man would have to pay Cryshna (ransom) money so they let her free and then she will say....sorry changed my mind.... I don't want to marry you!

Kevin..... too many gaps and too many holes in the whole story!

You probably need Groovs writing skills to make this story more interesting, believable and more exciting!

[Kevin]

So far it seems the group has gone from "drop her" to "explain what happen". You can image what the client must be going though at this point. Even the office was totally confused as everyone liked this lady and saw no problems in the relationship.

I had asked Yana to drill her full of questions if she shows up. And if the X-boyfriend is with her be ready to call the police if he tries to interfere or ask for money. I didn't expect to see the lady the following day myself and would be surprise if she showed up. Things just didn't add up...

A little more info.. The father has now made contact with lady. Taxi has been sent for the lady. Family still states she wants to marry. The client is just about as stress out as anyone can get.

So lets continue.

Believe it or not the ladies arrives with the father in the taxi. The father just happen to meet the client in a store next to the office and greets him with open arms. The lady is sitting on a bench next to the office. The father goes and notifies the office that they have arrived. The lady is quickly confronted by Yana..(May God have mercy on her soul). Believe it or not... Yana believe the lady story and give to go ahead for the client to talk to her. The family members say hello and allow the client
some private time.

The story given by the lady is the following. She wasn't aware of the exact date of the client return and wanted to return back to the resort area for work as a nurse in the clinic until he returned. When she got word that he was coming one of the men who also worked in the center who is in love with her got very upset and would allow her to leave. He took her phone and
passport. He also threaten her that if she would leave he would kill himself. A lot of stress for this lady. (questions that I had is why didn't she just leave, her answer was she had no money and it not safe to hitch hike for a lady in Ukraine). After some time she was able to convince the men to let her talk to her family. It was such a call the Yana made with the
step-mother phone that finally allowed us to threaten him to letting her go. Plus by us sending a taxi she could leave. She had mention that she tried to get a taxi to take her to Kherson and pay when she arrived. The problem is no taxi would take such a long trip with a promise of payment when someone could just run once they arrived. So I do give her some creditability to her
story. We later found out the boy mother has also called and is concerned about her son threats of suicide.

So now we have the lady, her father, the client and family still in Kherson. So after some time talking the lady is very happy to see the client and meet the family members. After numerous meeting with interpreters, Yana and myself the decision is made between the lady and client go get married ASAP. Now it typically takes 5-7 days to go though the process of getting married.
But with Yana connections and help a order goes out for a wedding in 48hrs. Wedding dresses, guess, wedding hall, cafe and vehicles have to be arranged and to this day I still don't know how they did it so fast. The lady return the following day back to her village to get thing organized for the Ukrainian traditional wedding and the groom get ready in Kherson.

A Sad note: If this Haden already been enough stress on the client and just about everyone else. One of the friends of the family in the village has a severe asthma attack as they were getting ready for the wedding rituals in village and passes away. A funeral has to be planned at the same time as the wedding is planned to occur the day after the wedding. (Yes, this is for
real).

Because my visa on my car expires on the day of the wedding I am not able to attend. However the word I got was the village ritual went without a problem and the wedding was a great success. Everyone at the village was impressed by the client.

The day after the wedding the client and lady return to the village for the funeral. I volunteer to take the place of the taxi driver to ensure the client got to Kiev on time the following day and we hoped to submit his document to the embassy. However we made a few mistakes. 1. You now need a appointment for the I-130 to drop it off. 2. You need to have your wedding
documents certified by the city before you go. A slight problem that will require another trip by the client to Kiev in a few weeks as we get all of the documents ready for him this week. The good side is the new couple can spend another weekend together.

So that will bring us to a current date. The lady is staying in a private apartment in Kherson instead of the village so she can get English lesson and relax. The X-boyfriend/friend is still in Crimea and his mother said he is alive but highly depressed. No charges are being pressed against him. The lady has a new cell phone with mp3, video and camera that is the envy of some of the staff.

Now before you start asking for the client or lady name it isn't being released by me.

But I will be glad to answer any question you have. Movie rights are for sale...

BTW for those who voted not to come if the client hadn't followed his gut instinct he would be married today.

What is going on today. Aug 9,2006. The client has return back home to America and will return at the end of the month back to Kiev to process the DCF.  The lady is living in Kherson and spending her days taking English lesson.  Their is no signs of any problems between the new couple.

Believe it or not this is a true story.

Kevin

p.s. Wiz..  The father was out of the loop as I mention when I started because of a family dispute and the location of the lady wasn't determined until the same day we found out and the father wasn't aware of where she was until after we where.   Why he didn't go searching for her I do not understand. It is my impression that she decided to leave and find work while waiting and the father didn't stop her as she is an adult.   Yana did speak with the lady the same day we found out her location and was the one who threaten the Men with police action if he interfere with her leaving.   Many gaps in the story because it was told as it happen and the facts weren't avalable at the time.  Like it happens in the real world.

[wiz]

Kevin

All I have to say is Good luck to them.......but I have my doubts for the succesfull and happy ending.

Let us know when the lady is finally in USA and I would not be surprised if her ex B/F did not come to the scene again.

I am aware of a couple unpleasant, to say the least, examples that make me very cynical.

[Turboguy]

I have to share Wiz's feelings.  I wish them the best of luck but I really wonder what may be in store for the groom.

A side note, just because I find this an interesting observation.  Kevin said it was unsafe to hitch hike in Ukraine.  It is funny in a way because the method of hailing a cab is so close to hitchhiking except you give the driver some money.  I guess in a case of real hitchhiking the driver might expect payment in another way.  No big deal.  I enjoyed the story Kevin.  It was interesting and thought provoking.

[Kevin]

Time will only tell for this new couple.  It was one of the strangest situations I have been in as when they are together they appear like the perfect couple with plenty of effection for each other.

Turboguy.  Hitchhiking is common in Ukraine and may people do it in the city instead of getting a taxi. But for a pretty young lady hitchhiking along on deserted backroads still isn't safe even in Ukraine.

Kevin

[jb]

This has got to be one of the strangest stories I've ever heard.

Honestly, in such a situation I would have been looking for the proverbial 10 foot pole and began pushing all these crazy people as far away from me as possible.  It's people like this who put the FUN in dysfunctional.  I've always heard that water seeks it's own level, so the hubby in this case may be as dysfunctional as the wife and entire her family. 

I pity them all.

[BC]

After numerous meeting with interpreters, Yana and myself the decision is made between the lady and client go get married ASAP.

.. now that's scary! 

[Daknack]

RUN FORREST RUN!

[Turboguy]

I hope they make it and have a happy life together but I too rate this one as a gamble.   If they happen to have a lasting happy marriage I hope you come back and let us know.

First I am sure we all hope for that and would enjoy the follow up

Second if they make it, it is one more for my Ken list on my never ending discussions with KenC, jb, and etc.

[jb]

Yep, right up there with a snowball's chance in hell.

[BC]

But this example does show well to what extent an agency will go to 'push' things along for their customers.

I'm sure the guy had quite a bill to settle.

Not meaning this negatively towards Kevin but business is business..

[Kevin]

BC.
 Just for the record the agency did most of the work for free. I spent hours with the client in my personal car going to the villages and place of employement of the father and never charge him. The only charge the client got from the office was for an interpretor service during the wedding and meeting with the family.  In fact we arranged the wedding for the client and saved him about $800 that the wedding company wanted to charge him.  I would say the agency lost money because of the amount of time we put into helping this client for free.  It is my desire to create marriage. Not to sell marriages.

You would be surprise how much work went into finding this lady and at any time if I or any of my staff felt that the lady wasn't interested in the client I would had told him such. People who know me understand that I don't tolerate any type of scam and will tell a client up front if I believe the relationship isn't going to work out. 

kevin

[BC]

Kevin,

That was quite nice of you but "it sho' don't pay the rent!" 

Seems like most of the folks around here feel in the long run it will not work out..  but of course we didn't get much info at all.

Any factors that you can let us in on that made you confident that they are a great match?

Any general aspects you can share?  i.e. age difference, communication, how many women the guy interviewed/dated, how long she was looking etc..

Nothing personal just a little background and what struck you as the dealmaker for them.

[Turboguy]

Yep, right up there with a snowball's chance in hell.

Since you think his chances are about dead even with a snowball's chance in hell I would be willing to make a cash wager with you on this one but only if I can take the snowball.

Of course some of the can't miss ones do and some of the not chance at all ones make it.  I hope after all the anxiety that it becomes a happy marriage.

[jb]

I don't tolerate any type of scam and will tell a client up front if I believe the relationship isn't going to work out.

In this case, how could you possibly know?  It looked like a pretty scatter brained deal from the beginning to me, no rhyme or reason to anything.  In your shoes I'd have told the client to save his money, stay at home, and await a logical outcome of the mystery of where she was and what she was doing.   Ya gotta admit, being kidnapped by a UM boyfriend is pretty far fetched.  I'm not sure I  believe all that crap.  She could have just as easily walked away from the clinic and contacted her family in any one of a hundred ways for a ride home.  Losing her phone and passport is not a reason to hide out with a UM boyfriend for several days or weeks.

Frankly, my guess is; you have wedded a very insecure and immature AM to a girl who will use him for whatever she can get.  Probably a GC, then she'll file an I-130 for her UM boyfriend and they will live happily ever after.

[jb]

How much would you like to wager?

[Turboguy]

If I have to take the guy and the Marriage, I will bet 10 cents.

If I can take the snowball I will bet $ 100.00