More Bad News for Russia

[fathertime]

Isn't it wonderful to glee over Russia's misfortune? According to many westerners the Russians can't do anything right. But then, if they can't, how come you (especially US) are so afraid of them? 

It is a bit humorous to read the false glee from a few...at the end of the day this will pass, and Russia will remain standing, perhaps even strengthened. 


I was browsing the net this morning, and I saw this article from the LA Times that once again pierces the continued mistruth many tell regarding NATO expansion.  The article discusses the timelines, and doesn't justify Russian aggression, but rather gives reasoning as to why it happens...and it doesn't paint us (The US) as angels.  Sounds more truthful than the basic talking points I sometimes read here. 


  Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

.....The West has vigorously protested that no such deal was ever struck. However, hundreds of memos, meeting minutes and transcripts from U.S. archives indicate otherwise. Although what the documents reveal isn’t enough to make Putin a saint, it suggests that the diagnosis of Russian predation isn’t entirely fair. Europe’s stability may depend just as much on the West’s willingness to reassure Russia about NATO’s limits as on deterring Moscow’s adventurism.....

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html




Fathertime!   

[The Natural]

The past century or so tends to indicate this, at least in terms of agriculture.


A country can't kill its best farmers, mismanage agriculture for more than a century, then expect it to rebound miraculously.

I think you missed my point. I said anything, not agriculture in particular. Don't know how well or bad they do it compared to other countries. Just know I wouldn't want to eat meat produced with steroid shots and antibiotics in the GM feed, like they do in USA. Fortunately that's illegal in Europe, but with the "trade deal" I'm sure The Empire will export this great practise too.

[Boethius]

I think you missed my point. I said anything, not agriculture in particular. Don't know how well or bad they do it compared to other countries. Just know I wouldn't want to eat meat produced with steroid shots and antibiotics in the GM feed, like they do in USA. Fortunately that's illegal in Europe, but with the "trade deal" I'm sure The Empire will export this great practise too.

If "The Empire" hasn't succeeded in exporting this to the EU, what makes you think it will be exported further?

It is very easy to purchase grass fed, antibiotic free meat in North America.  And, beef, I know for a fact, is not treated with steroids in Canada.  I know this because I live in the province that produces over 3/4 of Canada's beef, and  I have relatives who are beef farmers.  They don't use antibiotics, either, although once cows are transferred to feedlots, steroids may be used.

My point stands to "anything" as well. 

Sergey Kapitsa, the son of famed Russian physicist Pyotr Kapitsa, and a scientist himself, was tasked by Putin with reinvigorating Russian sciences.  He declared Russian science "dead".  A review of scholarly journals, and even the fact that Russia pays the tuition and living expenses of its graduate students to obtain advanced degrees abroad, provided they return to Russia to work is evidence of the truth of his statement.

A country cannot kill its best and brightest for a century, promote students based on fealty to a system rather than on brains, and then recover overnight.  I had honestly assumed by this point, things would have turned around.  However, the fact that former communists are still running the system, and are really criminal pigs at the trough, rather than expansive thinkers, has stymied progress in Russia, and Ukraine, as well. 

[Boethius]

I was browsing the net this morning, and I saw this article from the LA Times that once again pierces the continued mistruth many tell regarding NATO expansion.  The article discusses the timelines, and doesn't justify Russian aggression, but rather gives reasoning as to why it happens...and it doesn't paint us (The US) as angels.  Sounds more truthful than the basic talking points I sometimes read here. 

Here is the perspective of someone involved directly in the negotiations -

What the Germans, Americans, British and French did agree to in 1990 was that there would be no deployment of non-German NATO forces on the territory of the former GDR. I was a deputy director on the State Department’s Soviet desk at the time, and that was certainly the point of Secretary James Baker’s discussions with Gorbachev and his foreign minister, Eduard Shevardnadze. In 1990, few gave the possibility of a broader NATO enlargement to the east any serious thought.
The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:

Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory.

• There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin.
• Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there.

We now have a very authoritative voice from Moscow confirming this understanding. Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/11/06-nato-no-promise-enlarge-gorbachev-pifer

[BC]

A country cannot kill its best and brightest for a century, promote students based on fealty to a system rather than on brains, and then recover overnight.  I had honestly assumed by this point, things would have turned around.  However, the fact that former communists are still running the system, and are really criminal pigs at the trough, rather than expansive thinkers, has stymied progress in Russia, and Ukraine, as well.

In a new world of instant satisfaction, where we scold for being a day late or dollar short it's easy to forget that social and political change takes generations.  We have to remain patient, persistent, optimistic and never lose hope.  The world is still a very closed system and all closed systems will naturally seek equilibrium over time.

I make coffee in the mornings with a french press.  No matter how much I yearn that first sip I have to wait those 3 or 4 minutes for the grain to settle and flavor to develop before pushing the plunger.

[jone]

In a new world of instant satisfaction, where we scold for being a day late or dollar short it's easy to forget that social and political change takes generations.  We have to remain patient, persistent, optimistic and never lose hope.  The world is still a very closed system and all closed systems will naturally seek equilibrium over time.

I make coffee in the mornings with a french press.  No matter how much I yearn that first sip I have to wait those 3 or 4 minutes for the grain to settle and flavor to develop before pushing the plunger.

BC,

Sounds to me like you are a great lover as well.   

[Gator]

BC,

Sounds to me like you are a great lover as well.

LOL    Are your sure?   The foreplay is for only 3-4 minutes and in that time all he does is watch and wait.  Maybe he grinds.   

[jone]

Maybe he was Chance the Gardner in another life?

[msmobyone]

I was browsing the net this morning, and I saw this article from the LA Times that once again pierces the continued mistruth many tell regarding NATO expansion. 


  Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

I note Bo got to jump on your latest fail, while 'browsing the net' ...

The truth of the matter is no-one appreciated the  rate of change and the likes of Thatcher in the 'west' weren't even in favour of a re-united Germany.

[Boethius]

In a new world of instant satisfaction, where we scold for being a day late or dollar short it's easy to forget that social and political change takes generations.  We have to remain patient, persistent, optimistic and never lose hope.  The world is still a very closed system and all closed systems will naturally seek equilibrium over time.

I make coffee in the mornings with a french press.  No matter how much I yearn that first sip I have to wait those 3 or 4 minutes for the grain to settle and flavor to develop before pushing the plunger.

But change cannot occur if there is no change in who is at the levers of power.


What has changed is the system operated (from a closed totalitarian system to a semi closed authoritarian system), not the manner in which that system operates.

[AkMike]

Just 3  1/2 years to go before Russia has an out of control HIV/Aids epidemic according to "Kremlin Experts".  Condoms are to blame.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kremlin-experts-blame-condoms-for-russian-hiv-epidemic/571102.html

[AkMike]

Two Russian medalists were forced to turn in their medals from the 2012 Olympics for drug use. One was also forced to return her gold medal from the 2010 Euro Championship.   Not a bad beginning!

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/two-russian-athletes-hand-in-olympic-medals-after-being-caught-doping/571133.html

[AkMike]

Slavery in Russia is stable from 2015 according to the Moscow Times. Over 1,000,000 are deemed slaves. "Modern-day slavery comprises of human trafficking, forced labour, debt bondage, forced marriage and commercial sexual exploitation." There is an estimated 45,800,000 slaves worldwide, that number has risen 28% since last year.

 At least Russia is stable at something! 

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/over-1-million-russians-are-modern-slaves--report/571098.html

[fathertime]

I note Bo got to jump on your latest fail, while 'browsing the net' ...

The truth of the matter is no-one appreciated the  rate of change and the likes of Thatcher in the 'west' weren't even in favour of a re-united Germany.

It seems pretty clear to me that at a minimum verbal assurances were broken...and Russia has reasonable reason to have some concern. 


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

It seems pretty clear to me that at a minimum verbal assurances were broken...and Russia has reasonable reason to have some concern. 
Fathertime!

But it's not clear to Mr. Gorbachev, who was there at the time.  What he does say is that it was a violation of the "spirit of the statements and assurances" -

The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.

]Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled. The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been observed all these years. So don’t portray Gorbachev and the then-Soviet authorities as naïve people who were wrapped around the West’s finger. If there was naïveté, it was later, when the issue arose. Russia at first did not object.

The decision for the U.S. and its allies to expand NATO into the east was decisively made in 1993. I called this a big mistake from the very beginning. It was definitely a violation of the spirit of the statements and assurances made to us in 1990. With regards to Germany, they were legally enshrined and are being observed.

http://rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html

[msmobyone]

It seems pretty clear to me that at a minimum verbal assurances were broken...and Russia has reasonable reason to have some concern. 

It seems pretty clear that neither you - nor I - were present - so you cannot have a clue as to what was said - so we are relying on the words of those who were..


I does seem clear what Eduard Shevardnadze, the then Soviet Foreign Minister said...'' there were no such assurances from the West. Even the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, the Eastern military alliance, "was beyond our imagination"...

[JayH]

Reports of Putin's daughter being killed in a car accident in Holland- can it be true?

Accident killed Putin's daughter and her husband ?

This information came from the Netherlands, but the Dutch official police report about it. So to say that this is true we can not. But the accident was actually the police and the Netherlands in the near future is to confirm or deny that it is Putin's Maria died in this tragedy.
http://hvylya.net/news/digest/v-zhutkom-dtp-razbilas-doch-putina-so-svoim-suprugom-smi.html

[AkMike]

Poland has gotten tired of their noisey neighbor to the east. They decided not to re-new their long term gas contract with Gasprom. It'll expire in 2022.

http://uawire.org/news/poland-will-not-renew-its-contract-with-gazprom

[Anotherkiwi]

Reports of Putin's daughter being killed in a car accident in Holland- can it be true?

Accident killed Putin's daughter and her husband ?

Can't find any other reports of this.  Is she still even in The Netherlands?  I thought she supposedly fled the country after the Malaysian Airlines crash in Ukraine.

[BC]

Reports of Putin's daughter being killed in a car accident in Holland- can it be true?

Accident killed Putin's daughter and her husband ?

This information came from the Netherlands, but the Dutch official police report about it. So to say that this is true we can not. But the accident was actually the police and the Netherlands in the near future is to confirm or deny that it is Putin's Maria died in this tragedy.
http://hvylya.net/news/digest/v-zhutkom-dtp-razbilas-doch-putina-so-svoim-suprugom-smi.html

JayH spends his days searching for anything to fulfill his schadensfreude fantasies.

If it's on the internet it has to be true or?

http://acidcow.com/cars/47431-audi-s8-crash-11-pics.html

June 2013.  The polish driver reportedly walked away from this accident.

[JayH]

JayH spends his days searching for anything to fulfill his schadensfreude fantasies.

Did you miss the ?

Meanwhile-- more shocks to Russians  as Chinese  disclose the truth!
On Air Russia-24 occurred most unpleasant incident for Putin

A year ago, after the signing of the memorandum on the basic conditions of supply of gas through the western route ( "Power of Siberia-2"), the head of Gazprom's Miller said that China agreed terms of delivery and supply volumes will amount to 30 billion m3 of gas per year. Later, Miller said that " Gazprom "expects to sign a contract with CNPC for the Altai route in the first half of 2016. However, Wang Yilin has denied these allegations.

http://replyua.net/news/tv-ukraine/30865-shipilov-v-efire-rossiya-24-proizoshel-prenepriyatnyy-dlya-putina-kazus.html

[JohnDearGreen]

Can't find any other reports of this.  Is she still even in The Netherlands?  I thought she supposedly fled the country after the Malaysian Airlines crash in Ukraine.

"Terrible accident happened near the city of Rotterdam a few hours ago. Maria went to town with her ​​husband Yorritom Faassenom. On one of the turns of Maria Putina car Audi S8 skidded and was thrown into the oncoming lane, where there was a head-on collision with a truck MAN. A chance to survive, they had not. The car from the blow ripped almost in half."
http://elise.com.ua/?p=194161

[BC]

Did you miss the ?

Jay,

a minimum of due diligence before hitting the post button would garner a bit of reputability.  Don't you think that mainstream news would have carried something about this 'accident'? 

Rumors and more rumors.. oh well at least we know what's to be expected in your posts.  Don't think that silence implies consent but instead that fact checking your posts is like digging through a garbage heap.

Do you really believe the article?  If not why even post it?

You're about as unbalanced as the 'news' you post here.

[AkMike]

The UN Human Rights Spokeswoman , Ravina Shamdasani says that there are very credible reports of Russian servicemen and heavy weapons going into and out of Ukraine.

 Her report says that the armed invaders have caused large human rights violations, It says "2.7 million civilians living under their control have no freedom of expression, assembly and association."

http://www.voanews.com/content/un-sees-threat-protracted-war-east-ukraine-conflict/3360739.html

[AkMike]

There was a referendum, and while it was not without flaws, no one can honestly dispute that at the time, it reflected the wishes of a majority of Crimeans.

Boe, I dug this up to help show some of the flaws that was reported by the " “President of Russia’s Council on Civil Society and Human Rights”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/06/russian-government-agency-reveals-fraudulent-nature-of-the-crimean-referendum-results/