Why was MH 17 on that course ?

[GQBlues]

You really are a sad specimen GQ baby.

You are resorting to splitting hairs because you just can’t swallow defeat.

Man up, baby. You lost this battle.

Not to worry.

I’m sure there will be plenty of other opportunities for you to try to assert your smugness.

Translation: "Yes GQ, I am in fact *clueless*. You were right all along. Poroshenko DID NOT include any MH17 provisions on the draft bill," i.e Canadaman is too much of a buffoon to admit the fact he's clueless.

Canadaman: "Give me a break, I am well past 60 years old, an old fart as you say, and I'm still searching for a wife in Ukraine. So how can you expect me to look for something that doesn't exist with whatever time I have left?"

[CanadaMan]

This is just for the benefit of others here (you already know this GQ).
 
At the time I made my initial post, you had NO CLUE whatsoever that Poroshenko/parliament had excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon.
 
In fact, you showed your ignorance (the one who really had “no clue”) by citing the 12-point protocol agreement signed on Sep 5, 2014 in Minsk as de facto proof that he had not excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon.
 
When I finally proved to you that Poroshenko had in fact excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon, and that the proof was not in the Sep 5, 2014 Mink agreement but rather in the Sep 16, 2014 agreement ratified by Ukraine's parliament, our battle ended. You had been defeated.
 
You sunk away with your tail between your legs and began to lick your wounds.
 
In fact, you acknowledged defeat (albeit in a grudging manner) with “I stand corrected.”
 
But GQBlues just can’t stand any kind of defeat, so he pulled this one out of his rear end:
Prove it was Poroshenko who excluded it and not his parliament.
 
That was your desperate attempt at saving face.
It was pretty sad actually. 
 


And now, still hard hit by the defeat, you are left with no other resort but to sling insults and talk about your favorite topic on RWD:
The age of men on this site.
 

[GQBlues]

This is just for the benefit of others here (you already know this GQ).
 
At the time I made my initial post, you had NO CLUE whatsoever that Poroshenko/parliament had excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon....

Nice try.

I KNEW Poroshenko never had, or intended to, make any specific exclusions in the amnesty program relating to MH17. Why? Because of his own statement both in speeches and in his own website which I provided to you. That was also supported by BNE amongst other publications who *saw* the actual original draft bill and primarily reported prior to adoption without the Mh17 exclusion.

When it was submitted, I had no way of knowing, nor did anyone, it was initially delayed and resubmitted by the Parliament separately the following day with the addition of MH17 provisions.

I was just going to drop it off at that and provided you the benefit despite the evolution of the submital to adoption. But you had to insist you really are clueless.
 

...In fact, you showed your ignorance (the one who really had “no clue”) by citing the 12-point protocol agreement signed on Sep 5, 2014 in Minsk as de facto proof that he had not excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon....

I gave you everything Poroshenko pushed forward. From the inception of the cease fire laid out on his 12 point protocol including his intended bill to use in his negotiation with the rebels.
 

...When I finally proved to you that Poroshenko had in fact excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon, and that the proof was not in the Sep 5, 2014 Mink agreement but rather in the Sep 16, 2014 agreement ratified by Ukraine's parliament, our battle ended. You had been defeated....

I'm still waiting for your prove it was Poroshenko who did it since I have been able to prove to you HE DID NOT.
 

...You sunk away with your tail between your legs and began to lick your wounds....

It's time get up off your knees old man. No need to insist to favor me even more. Time to look for a wife in Ukraine...

How'd that crow taste like? 
 

...In fact, you acknowledged defeat (albeit in a grudging manner) with “I stand corrected.”...

That it was adopted in the bill, yes. But it wasn't in the original draft by Poroshenko, which you claim it was. So prove it.
 

...But GQBlues just can’t stand any kind of defeat, so he pulled this one out of his rear end:
Prove it was Poroshenko who excluded it and not his parliament.
 
That was your desperate attempt at saving face.
It was pretty sad actually.  ...

Riiiight. 
 

....And now, still hard hit by the defeat, you are left with no other resort but to sling insults and talk about your favorite topic on RWD: The age of men on this site....

Oh so now you'd hide being the whole *insult* trend, I see..

I ask, you are in fact way past 60 years old, right?
I ask, you are/were in fact STILL searching for wife in Ukraine, right?

Are these insult or are they reality? It is what it is, Canadaman. Just because you blokes hate *your* reality for being so freaking old and be looking for a wife in an impoverished country doesn't necessarily mean it's insulting YOU. Truth seem to bother you so much! It's just telling you the truth. Unless of course, you are a weasel and doesn't seem to mind swimming in *denial* river.

Know what I mean? 
 

[CanadaMan]

In fact, you acknowledged defeat (albeit in a grudging manner) with “I stand corrected.”

That it was adopted in the bill, yes. But it wasn't in the original draft by Poroshenko, which you claim it was. So prove it.

You are grasping at straws again strawman! 

NOWHERE in any of my posts did I claim it was in the original draft!

Lord knows I've quoted myself more than enough times about this in this thread:

"Poroshenko has excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon."

Do you see anything there about 'original draft'???  Are you daft???
Look real good baby.


Prove that I stated it was in the original draft and I will personally give you $30 million you keep.

You lost this battle. Go find another one to fight. 

[GQBlues]

Still waiting for the proof, Pops...

..The amnesty bill is what I was referring to when I said:
".Poroshenko has excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon."..

[CanadaMan]

You’re just pissing in the wind now GQ baby.
Better duck now before you get a face full.   
 

[GQBlues]

Can't weasel out of this one, Pops....where's your proof?

.....The amnesty bill is what I was referring to when I said:
".Poroshenko has excluded those who might be responsible for the MH17 shootdown from any amnesty/pardon."..

...and while you're busying yourself to try and deflect the fact that I was right that you really are *clueless*, mind if I ask you another question?

At your age today, is this what we can legitimately consider a woman in your league, and more importantly in your age range?



Be honest now. 

[calmissile]

Can't weasel out of this one, Pops....where's your proof?
...and while you're busying yourself to try and deflect the fact that I was right that you really are *clueless*, mind if I ask you another question?

At your age today, is this what we can legitimately consider a woman in your league, and more importantly in your age range?



Be honest now. 

I'll bet you two snuggle real nice.   Thanks for the family photo.     

[GQBlues]

I'll bet you two snuggle real nice.   Thanks for the family photo.     

Lol! Speaking of limp biscuit old fart, what are you now? 75, 76? That gal is definitely much younger than you! But no one would likely care in San Bernardino right? LMAO!

Man there's a ton of old farts fishing  the dirty barrel in ukraine...

[sleepycat]

How will our friend ever manage to cope when in a few year's time he loses the 'age card' to play with? Quit RWD and move over to the centenarian's forum to pick on the good folks there?

Or maybe we have the illustrious Benjamin Button amongst our company!

[Isthmus]

Courtesy of one wayward pilot this thread has definitely veered off course, lol.

I think some participants are forgetting some rather basic points. Determination of liability depends upon whether we are talking about a political arena, legal, technical or public opinion. The standard of liability obviously varies. An observer from the general public reads/watches different reports and forms an opinion.

International political figures cannot wait 2 years for a detailed technical investigation and detailed report and have to react to a fluid political situation.  They also may have some intelligence sources that they will never reveal but they have to respond to the situation promptly and make decisions upon what they believed occurred (after intelligence briefings).

Of all that I have read on the topic and drawing some inferences from circumstantial evidence I have formed my own opinion who was responsible. It was Russia's proxy forces in Donetsk who accidentally (but negligently) shot down MH17 and then did their best to cover it up and obfuscate. This is my purely subjective conclusion and it counts for nothing but it is my honestly held belief.

Kremlin bots can posts megabytes of BS all over the internet but it won't change what the vast majority of political factors that count believe what happened and it certainly won't change public opinion where I live which overwhelmingly apportions the responsibility to the Russian side for the deaths of 38 Aussies.

For many people, MH17 will remain a stain on Russia for as long as Putin is in power.  Fancy giving access to BUK SAMs to those stupid yokels running the Donetsk militias. Gross negligence I say!

[JayH]

.

For many people, MH17 will remain a stain on Russia for as long as Putin is in power.  Fancy giving access to BUK SAMs to those stupid yokels running the Donetsk militias. Gross negligence I say!

From Putin down ,through the Kremlin morons  to the morons on the ground should be forever held responsible and held to account (ie pay) for those deaths. And of course for every Ukrainian killed or injured and the damage to Ukraine in every context.

[GQBlues]

How will our friend ever manage to cope when in a few year's time he loses the 'age card' to play with? Quit RWD and move over to the centenarian's forum to pick on the good folks there?

Or maybe we have the illustrious Benjamin Button amongst our company!

LMAO! Dude....this sexy thang have more going for himself in a day than you will ever have your lifetime...LOL.

How does it feel like to spend thousand of dollars for a plane ticket and for accommodation, then travel an entire day or so while dreaming you're about to sex up a gal in your feeble and delusional mind, only to find yourself stiffed by the gal sitting in your over-priced rental apartment alone all weekend long?

Is your loser attribute acquired or were you born one? LMAO! Man, I'd blame my parents if I were you...

[Drew]

Thanks Isthmus.
Very well thought out and very well written.

[GQBlues]

2 weeks later...still no claim to that cool $30 million despite the *mountain of evidence*.

 

[GQBlues]

The full Dutch Preliminary Investigation report: www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf

This preliminary report cited the Netherlands' entire work premise necessary for them to accomplish this assignment. The report content cited information and evidences gathered from field work, transcripts, and information requested by the investigators from appropriate governments or agencies proven to have sufficient data to help facilitate the process.

Significant fact to note: There have been *NO* evidence either offered or received from the United States of America despite the immediate accusations and western narrative asserting that the US have sufficient intelligence proof that a ground to air missile destroyed MH17 which perpetuated the frenzy that it was likely supplied by Russia to the rebels.

Zip. Nada. Zilch. ZERO. NONE.

Nowhere in the report did it state that the airliner was destroyed by a ground-based missile.

Zip. Nada. Zilch. ZERO. NONE.

[Brasscasing]

2 weeks later...still no claim to that cool $30 million despite the *mountain of evidence*.

 

Maybe someone already has...

"...Wifka works absolutely confidential. The agency advises whistle-blowers to take great care; e.g. to contact them through a lawyer. Details should not lightly be given away in emails or on the phone. A secure way of communication will be established for every individual case..."

...but we're not going to know about it until the time is right.

Besides, something doesn't sit right with this claim...

..."Wifkas client offers to give the whistle-blower a new identity"...

...Infers the 'client' is a government agency as new identities are hard to come by in the private sector.

So, if I was one of the militia/Russian soldiers operating the BUK system that day (pretty well the only ones capable of answering the pre requisite conditions for collecting as written), I'd be pretty leery of coming forward because if it turns out the 'client' is the GRU/FSB/Russian government you can bet the new identity is going to be a toe tag that reads "John Doe - Deceased".

http://www.wifka.de/who-shot-down-mh17-30-million-dollars-reward-for-information.html

Brass

[GQBlues]

Maybe someone already has...

"...Wifka works absolutely confidential. The agency advises whistle-blowers to take great care; e.g. to contact them through a lawyer. Details should not lightly be given away in emails or on the phone. A secure way of communication will be established for every individual case..."

...but we're not going to know about it until the time is right.

Besides, something doesn't sit right with this claim...

..."Wifkas client offers to give the whistle-blower a new identity"...

...Infers the 'client' is a government agency as new identities are hard to come by in the private sector.

So, if I was one of the militia/Russian soldiers operating the BUK system that day (pretty well the only ones capable of answering the pre requisite conditions for collecting as written), I'd be pretty leery of coming forward because if it turns out the 'client' is the GRU/FSB/Russian government you can bet the new identity is going to be a toe tag that reads "John Doe - Deceased".

Nope. Still there....keep trying. There is a *mountain of evidence* right?

[Brasscasing]

Nope. Still there....keep trying. There is a *mountain of evidence* right?

Lol, you're a funny guy Bodie however, the word play won't work.

Firstly, I don't need to "keep trying". You see, I nor anyone else on this forum is required to agree with you about any opinions you may have or pass some imaginary bar you've set for that matter.

Let me lay this out for you. I'm satisfied, based on the Russian activities at the crash site, the militia dispatches at the time and Russian news reports in the hours after the shoot down that the Russian backed militia in Strelkov's zone of responsibility are responsible for downing MH17. It's that simple.

So, unless you come up with some mitigating information that explains above mentioned activities, dispatches or news reports other than conspiracy theories and general trolling I'll conclude you're simply trying to shout down those with differing opinions to yourself.

Secondly, a "mountain of evidence" is nebulous.  If you want to challenge me with this phraseology define it.   

Now, if you want to discuss what information is available implicating the Russian backed militia shooting down MH17, I'd be more than happy to accommodate you but I'm not going to get into a back and forth refuting your conspiracy theories.

Brass

[GQBlues]

Lol, you're a funny guy Bodie however, the word play won't work.

Firstly, I don't need to "keep trying". You see, I nor anyone else on this forum is required to agree with you about any opinions you may have or pass some imaginary bar you've set for that matter....

LMAO! Dude, still dense after all these years? I don't remember asking YOU with my '2-weeks after' post you responded to, did I? You took it upon yourself to respond, so now you're telling me that you or anyone else isn't required to agree with me about anything? where the heck to you fish your silly logic out from?

If you honestly felt that way, you should've just STFU, know what I mean Pops? LMAO!

...Let me lay this out for you. I'm satisfied, based on the Russian activities at the crash site, the militia dispatches at the time and Russian news reports in the hours after the shoot down that the Russian backed militia in Strelkov's zone of responsibility are responsible for downing MH17. It's that simple.

So, unless you come up with some mitigating information that explains above mentioned activities, dispatches or news reports other than conspiracy theories and general trolling I'll conclude you're simply trying to shout down those with differing opinions to yourself.

Secondly, a "mountain of evidence" is nebulous.  If you want to challenge me with this phraseology define it.   

Now, if you want to discuss what information is available implicating the Russian backed militia shooting down MH17, I'd be more than happy to accommodate you but I'm not going to get into a back and forth refuting your conspiracy theories.

Brass

No. let me lay this out for YOU. There's NO evidence available today that a ground-to-air missile downed MH17. Much less one fired by the rebels. There's no evidence implicating Russia supplied the missile that downed the plane. There's no evidence clearly implicating ANYONE is guilty of downing the plane.

Now if you're refuting these facts, including the published report by the Dutch investigators I so generously provided for the membership, and that YOU actually have clear evidences contrary to these facts we have so far....then:

Claim the $30 million. (Pronto! It'll help defray the MOB expense).

Otherwise, if you do not have an iota of proof to change the facts we know today and support your silly post, then it would be the likes of YOU who is promoting *conspiracy theories*. Capiche?

Now, the fact I'm not screaming 'Glory to Ukraine!", there's a good chance this post will disappear too. LMAO....

 

[GQBlues]

15 days and the $30 million is still not claimed despite the *mountain of evidence*.

 

[Muzh]

Now, if you want to discuss what information is available implicating the Russian backed militia shooting down MH17, I'd be more than happy to accommodate you but I'm not going to get into a back and forth refuting your conspiracy theories. Brass

Now if you're refuting these facts, including the published report by the Dutch investigators I so generously provided for the membership, and that YOU actually have clear evidences contrary to these facts we have so far....then:

I've been saying the following for quite a while; it was the CIA on a cloaked bird of prey which fired a photon torpedo.


And that Vkontakte bullshevism implicating the Russian terrorist firing the buk? Have you seen the Cardasians how manipulative SOBs they are? Most probably they had a hand in falsifying that Vkontakte page.


Personally? The Russians did it. 


Either that or Elvis is still alive and the CIA killed JFK.


Ooo ooo, ooo, and there are no UFOs.


http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=618836518238035&set=vb.253878101400547&type=2&theater


http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=618939811561039&set=vb.253878101400547&type=2&theater


http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=584894444965576


I bet you one of those were responsible for MH 17 going down in flames.


 

[GQBlues]

I've been saying the following for quite a while; it was the CIA on a cloaked bird of prey which fired a photon torpedo.


And that Vkontakte bullshevism implicating the Russian terrorist firing the buk? Have you seen the Cardasians how manipulative SOBs they are? Most probably they had a hand in falsifying that Vkontakte page.


Personally? The Russians did it. 


Either that or Elvis is still alive and the CIA killed JFK.


Ooo ooo, ooo, and there are no UFOs.


http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=618836518238035&set=vb.253878101400547&type=2&theater


http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=618939811561039&set=vb.253878101400547&type=2&theater


http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=584894444965576


I bet you one of those were responsible for MH 17 going down in flames.


 

Hurry ol' boy...before the brass man gets there before you!

http://www.wifka.de/who-shot-down-mh17-30-million-dollars-reward-for-information.html

Cool $30 million. Mountain of evidence.

[GQBlues]

Bears repeating:

The full Dutch Preliminary Investigation report: www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf

This preliminary report cited the Netherlands' entire work premise necessary for them to accomplish this assignment. The report content cited information and evidences gathered from field work, transcripts, and information requested by the investigators from appropriate governments or agencies proven to have sufficient data to help facilitate the process.

Significant fact to note: There have been *NO* evidence either offered or received from the United States of America despite the immediate accusations and western narrative asserting that the US have sufficient intelligence proof that a ground to air missile destroyed MH17 which perpetuated the frenzy that it was likely supplied by Russia to the rebels.

Zip. Nada. Zilch. ZERO. NONE.

Nowhere in the report did it state that the airliner was destroyed by a ground-based missile.

Zip. Nada. Zilch. ZERO. NONE.

[Brasscasing]

LMAO! Dude, still dense after all these years? I don't remember asking YOU with my '2-weeks after' post you responded to, did I? You took it upon yourself to respond, so now you're telling me that you or anyone else isn't required to agree with me about anything? where the heck to you fish your silly logic out from?

If you honestly felt that way, you should've just STFU, know what I mean Pops? LMAO!

Ah, but is that not the nature of discussion forums? If you post a message with questionable content should you not expect a response/challenge or have you after all these years on the forums arrived at a place where you now believe that you can post what you like and by virtue of the fact it's a Bodine offering must remain unchallenged? I think not.

However, in response to your comment; If we are to follow your logic in regards to you asking people to respond to your post then my response would be I don't remember asking YOU to post your message in the first place and as your message has been repeated several times, offers no relevant information and doesn't further the discussion maybe it's you who should STFU. So it seems we're at an impasse, no?

But you don't have to be so combative and defensive, Bodie. I'll avoid embarrassing you if at all possible. As I mentioned when I arrived don't be scared we're going to get along like peas and carrots.  

No. let me lay this out for YOU. There's NO evidence available today that a ground-to-air missile downed MH17. Much less one fired by the rebels. There's no evidence implicating Russia supplied the missile that downed the plane. There's no evidence clearly implicating ANYONE is guilty of downing the plane.

And I disagree. There is evidence and I've already linked three examples on this topic that supports my position. I have yet to see you provide any examples/information/evidence that supports your position.

Now if you're refuting these facts, including the published report by the Dutch investigators I so generously provided for the membership, and that YOU actually have clear evidences contrary to these facts we have so far....then:

Claim the $30 million. (Pronto! It'll help defray the MOB expense).

Otherwise, if you do not have an iota of proof to change the facts we know today and support your silly post, then it would be the likes of YOU who is promoting *conspiracy theories*. Capiche?

You have not provided any facts to refute.   

The Dutch investigators have not finished their investigation, have not yet provided a full report and are not mandated to assign blame/culpability for the shoot down in the first place. Only determine what caused the crash. The report you cite does not support your assertions.

Again I'm not required to meet your imaginary bar, Bodie. I have provided information on multiple posts up thread supporting my argument. Posts which you seem to have avoided. 

Brass