Diminishing Returns in Eastern Europe

[jone]

It is a known fact that there is a huge fall-off in the number of available men to marry a woman in Eastern Europe as she ages.   Conversely, the men, as they get older and are without major personality faults or nasty habits remain in demand.

But how does this play out?

I have a friend of mine who just turned forty.   He has been using various repositories (MOB sites) to meet with women (electronically).   He has not made his first trip yet.   (Background:  was married, no kids, good job.)

I told him when he started looking not to go for the jail bait.   Anyone over 28 would be a good target to interact with.   He took my words to heart and made his minimum age at 30.   The number of women he found at that age absolutely blew me away.

He's been at this for about four months now.   But one woman he's talking to bears noting.   

This gal is 33 years old.   From Dnipro.   Her early pictures show a stunner.   Around 5'9" and with long blonde hair.   He approached her when he started and got nowhere.  Now, four months later, he is talking to her and her story came out.

When she was in her twenties, her desire was to marry a rich guy, preferably from Dubai.   So she went here and lived there and was in three relationships.   Each of the relationships ended badly as the guys with money that she had sought out traded up for a newer model.   (His words, not hers.)  When she hit thirty, she moved back to Ukraine to help out with her family.   Her prospects for finding a husband were non-existent.   At least not with the income she sought out. 

She now works in a shop.   Her looks are beginning to fade and she, instead of dating locally, has begun interacting with guys on MOB sites.  But her initial postings on the MOB sites were extremely restrictive.   She would not date over 35.  She would only consider a man if (choose your qualification here) he met wonderful expectations.

That was two years ago.   Now her profile has changed.  It has some recent pictures on it and she now will date guys to forty five and her demands are not what they were.  But even with the reduced demands, she is not the gal she once was.   She confided all of this to my friend.   I think in the hopes that he would see her as good marriage material.   His response was revulsion about living the high life in Dubai and he, like most others, has cast her aside.   While she may get correspondence on the internet, she has not had any actual visits.   

One of the first questions I asked women when I was corresponding with them is if they had actually met anyone on a dating website.    90% of them answered no.   Those that did, almost universally, I found to be pro-daters. 

So, here's the question:  At what point do women lower their expectations in the men they are seeking and at what point will men consider a woman that they might be interested in?

There has to be a happy medium or there will never be any matches.   

I, like many others on the forum, have found that it is necessary to go through many women to be able to make a match.   And it is silly to think that one can find a match with reviewing only a limited number of women/profiles.

[ML]

It is a known fact that there is a huge fall-off in the number of available men to marry a woman in Eastern Europe as she ages.   Conversely, the men, as they get older and are without major personality faults or nasty habits remain in demand.

But how does this play out?

So, here's the question:  At what point do women lower their expectations in the men they are seeking and at what point will men consider a woman that they might be interested in?

I don't know when women lower their expectations; however, I have some related comments.

I think because of the massive search I went through before each of my trips (starting out with hundreds of women on several match sites), I came in contact with several woman who had perhaps never been contacted or had very few contacts.

Many of them in fact readily told me that they hadn't been on a date for years.
Yet during our meetings some acted somewhat like they were the Homecoming Queen.
As a result, usually I only met with that type for the first date.

Now did my 'one date and out' make it easier for the next guy who contacted them because they realized they had to lower their expectations or at least not act like a Homecoming Queen?
Possibly.

[msmob]

It is a known fact that there is a huge fall-off in the number of available men to marry a woman in Eastern Europe as she ages.   Conversely, the men, as they get older and are without major personality faults or nasty habits remain in demand.

But you go on to discuss you friend in his early forties...where the simplest check shows there's nearly as many UA guys (2017 data ) ..same for russia ..

Ukraine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#/media/File:Ukrainepop.svg

Russia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#/media/File:Russiapop.svg

   

She now works in a shop.   Her looks are beginning to fade and she, instead of dating locally, has begun interacting with guys on MOB sites.  But her initial postings on the MOB sites were extremely restrictive.   She would not date over 35.  She would only consider a man if (choose your qualification here) he met wonderful expectations.

What is a 'MoB' site' in 2019 ? Why do guys use the very term some would use to 'belittle' seeking a party overseas

One of the first questions I asked women when I was corresponding with them is if they had actually met anyone on a dating website.   

Why ?! I think is is a very bizarre ( one of ) first question ... far too nosey ..

How would most guys react if a lady's first Q was " Have you dated a FSU W before ? "

So, here's the question:  At what point do women lower their expectations in the men they are seeking and at what point will men consider a woman that they might be interested in?

I think your question would be better phrased ..

Q:  Are FSU W realistic about the type of guy they can attract ? 

A: CERTAINLY - far more so than tthe guys writing to them ...

I, like many others on the forum, have found that it is necessary to go through many women to be able to make a match.   And it is silly to think that one can find a match with reviewing only a limited number of women/profiles.

Of course, one needs to go through lots of profiles to find someone worth flying thousands of miles ... to me. the lunacy is restricting oneself to a particular city / country  - then lining up dates ...

[Gator]

When she was in her twenties, her desire was to marry a rich guy, preferably from Dubai.   So she went here and lived there and was in three relationships.   Each of the relationships ended badly as the guys with money that she had sought out traded up for a newer model. 

GD²    (gold digger squared).  The story is the same:  over the years these women get passed from man to man.   

Wealthy men are in Ukraine, yet rather than being the average gold digger and pursuing local men with jingle in their pockets, she went to where there are more such men, and even wealthier, even though there are large cultural differences.     

Your friend says the men in Dubai traded her in for a new model.  More than likely the Dubai men grew weary of her gold digger ways, something she would never recognize much less accept.  Also, she sounds strong willed, not a trait a Dubai man would find endearing. 

When she hit thirty, she moved back to Ukraine......She would not date over 35.....she now will date guys to forty five and her demands are not what they were. 

Reasonable age demand.  Are her other demands still reasonable? 

His response was revulsion about living the high life in Dubai and he, like most others, has cast her aside. 

Good decision.  She was honest, yet that does not overcome her flaws.  Definitely a huge risk for a WOVO approach.   Possibility for one hour meeting in a WMVM approach.   

So, here's the question:  At what point do women lower their expectations in the men they are seeking and at what point will men consider a woman that they might be interested in?

Normal men and women look for "chemistry."  That expectation should be at the top of any list, never to be dismissed.   Every other expectation is a personal decision.  A normal person knows there are tradeoffs because no one is ideal, much less perfect. 

And if a loving, enduring, committed  relationship develops, none of prior expectations have any importance.   

[2tallbill]

So, here's the question:  At what point do women lower their expectations in the men they are seeking and at what point will men consider a woman that they might be interested in?

I understood the first part of your question, maybe you can expand on what you are
asking about men.

I, like many others on the forum, have found that it is necessary to go through many
women to be able to make a match.   And it is silly to think that one can find a match
with reviewing only a limited number of women/profiles.

"When you don't know where you are going any road will take you there."
George Harrison


First, I made a list about what the perfect woman would be. Then I put the list
in some semblance of what was most important what was least. I made a list
of every single thing that women in the past have done that drive me nuts or
I didn't like and I started putting that in some sort of order.

Second, I decided on what things I could compromise on and what I couldn't.
For example I wouldn't compromise on character. I liked women who were
taller than X, but I dated women of every height, that was a preference
but not a goal that was carved in stone.

Now I had a goal. To find the most excellent woman (for me) who walked the
Earth to be Mrs 2tallbill. 

Then I began to develop a strategy, then tactics for that strategy. Then you
have to stick to your plan until it succeeds or fails. Then you need to look at
everything, change it, refine it and go do it all over again.

When you have high standards you have to sift through many women to find
a woman who meets that standard. Then you must win her heart and keep
her interested from afar while you travel back and forth.

It might sound really easy from somebody reading this from his den in Peoria
but it's very difficult to stay focused and/or clear eyed when emotions, love,
lust, sex and hot bodies are involved. There are a million things that WILL
distract you.

Yes it's silly to think that you can look at a few profiles and pick out a winner.

[2tallbill]

But you go on to discuss you friend in his early forties...where the simplest check shows there's nearly as many UA guys (2017 data ) ..same for russia ..

Each year the number of desirable men for marriage in EVERY culture decreases.
Some of those men become married, others become undesirable for marriage, others
become drunks or drug addicts, they turn out to be gay, go to prison, become total
whoremongers, etc and It get worse every year after say age 30. The population of
men compared to the population of women is irrelevant. The number of desirable
men suitable for marriage shrinks.

How would most guys react if a lady's first Q was " Have you dated a FSU W before ? "

I've been asked a hundreds times at least.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah I really want to argue about visit one vs visit many
or Brexit. 

We know

[2tallbill]

A normal person knows there are tradeoffs because no one is ideal, much less perfect. 

Exactly, and if I had managed to find this unicorn fairy princess perfect girl
then what are the odds that she would have become totally enamored with
me?

I prefer my Angel Eyes who has great character, is an excellent fit and 
totally enamored (most of the time).

[2tallbill]

GD²    (gold digger squared).  The story is the same:  over the years these women get passed from man to man.   

That sums her up.

GD²    (gold digger squared).  The story is the same:  over the years these women get passed from man to man.   
Reasonable age demand.  Are her other demands still reasonable? 

Good decision.  She was honest, yet that does not overcome her flaws.  Definitely a huge risk for a WOVO approach.   Possibility for one hour meeting in a WMVM approach.     

In my opinion her flaws preclude her from any date of any sort. You can
compromise on most things but not on character.

[BillyB]

So, here's the question:  At what point do women lower their expectations in the men they are seeking and at what point will men consider a woman that they might be interested in?

A guy or girl should consider everybody could be a potential mate. Minimize restrictions from the beginning and sort out the people after meeting them. I've dated young ladies and I'm also willing to bet I've dated more older ladies than any man on this board. I'll date any woman as long as she looks pleasant to my eyes.

You imply pro daters get men to visit. That's because they're willing to meet anybody. Regular women should be willing to meet everybody otherwise pro daters will get the lion's share of attention.

Young people tend to be choosy and don't understand their worth. They may overvalue themselves. They hold off for the bigger better deal but years go by and they remain lonely and they worth has gone down. The good men and women get married and stay married. As we get older, not much quality people left to choose from.

[Trenchcoat]

It is a known fact that there is a huge fall-off in the number of available men to marry a woman in Eastern Europe as she ages.   Conversely, the men, as they get older and are without major personality faults or nasty habits remain in demand.

But how does this play out?

I have a friend of mine who just turned forty.   He has been using various repositories (MOB sites) to meet with women (electronically).   He has not made his first trip yet.   (Background:  was married, no kids, good job.)

I told him when he started looking not to go for the jail bait.   Anyone over 28 would be a good target to interact with.   He took my words to heart and made his minimum age at 30.   The number of women he found at that age absolutely blew me away.

He's been at this for about four months now.   But one woman he's talking to bears noting.   

This gal is 33 years old.   From Dnipro.   Her early pictures show a stunner.   Around 5'9" and with long blonde hair.   He approached her when he started and got nowhere.  Now, four months later, he is talking to her and her story came out.

When she was in her twenties, her desire was to marry a rich guy, preferably from Dubai.   So she went here and lived there and was in three relationships.   Each of the relationships ended badly as the guys with money that she had sought out traded up for a newer model.   (His words, not hers.)  When she hit thirty, she moved back to Ukraine to help out with her family.   Her prospects for finding a husband were non-existent.   At least not with the income she sought out. 

She now works in a shop.   Her looks are beginning to fade and she, instead of dating locally, has begun interacting with guys on MOB sites.  But her initial postings on the MOB sites were extremely restrictive.   She would not date over 35.  She would only consider a man if (choose your qualification here) he met wonderful expectations.

That was two years ago.   Now her profile has changed.  It has some recent pictures on it and she now will date guys to forty five and her demands are not what they were.  But even with the reduced demands, she is not the gal she once was.   She confided all of this to my friend.   I think in the hopes that he would see her as good marriage material.   His response was revulsion about living the high life in Dubai and he, like most others, has cast her aside.   While she may get correspondence on the internet, she has not had any actual visits.   

One of the first questions I asked women when I was corresponding with them is if they had actually met anyone on a dating website.    90% of them answered no.   Those that did, almost universally, I found to be pro-daters. 

So, here's the question:  At what point do women lower their expectations in the men they are seeking and at what point will men consider a woman that they might be interested in?

There has to be a happy medium or there will never be any matches.   

I, like many others on the forum, have found that it is necessary to go through many women to be able to make a match.   And it is silly to think that one can find a match with reviewing only a limited number of women/profiles.

Ties in my thread 'Transactional Materialistic FSU the Conclusion'.

Basically they are Materialist women, sounds stereotyping but its true, most societies have them. It kinds of harks back to when women used to rely on men to provide and take care of the woman and her want for nothing.

Problem with Ukraine, etc is that they are Materialist women in a Poor country. A guy on average wage or even above average wage is unlikely to be able to buy them all the goodies they crave, not nearly enough and not quick enough. The local guys soon realise that and know that a long term relationship with the girl is not yet of the question - she would not be good for marriage as she would be spending them into the poor house buying luxuries while having nothing left to meet basic living costs. A local guy knows that they would be done within a few days if not hours if dating such a girl. A local guy can't afford a spending spree in the shopping centres.

Conversely, the girl has a very hard if not impossible time looking for guys that can fill her insatiable need for commercial cr*p. There are local guys wealthy enough to support her in reasonable comfort but this is not enough for materialistic women - they want it all. Most Materialist women won't settle for less - in their mind a guy that can't provide all the stuff they want. Most of the local guys a). don't have the money for such women and b). Aren't interested in such women, they just want a girl who will stay at home with kids, look after the kids and ask for basic living stuff - they want a girl who is content with that and they can be happy sharing each others lives.

So what Gator says is pretty much right.

In fact Jone, this is a good write up you gave as it shows as I have been finding that most women don't want a much older guy in the FSU, its just that over time they realise what they seek tends to be with the older man as the young rich guys go fast and for younger women.

I think the main thing for your friend to bear in mind is that there are a lot of Materialistic women in FSU dating sites as they are the women the local guys commonly pass over. It's all very fine saying go for the woman with excellent character traits but few of them are around on those sites as most are taken. The few that may exist will either be unattractive looking women to most guys, women with kids or women that are both attractive and excellent characteristics but are looking for the same. So while guys can strike it lucky the realistic approach is to expect Materialistic women.

Is all a question if what does the guy have to offer in return... He has a good job right? And how to handle Materialist women if he wants to reconsider dealing with them.

I think it's fine for a guy to be reviled at the thought of such women and their attitude but how many men can afford to be that choosy? Is he up to getting what he seeks or  does he fall under par for most women in some way? Looks, aging, difficult personality, etc, etc?

[2tallbill]

You imply pro daters get men to visit. That's because they're willing to meet anybody. Regular women should be willing to meet everybody otherwise pro daters will get the lion's share of attention.

It's the hottest girls who get all the attention. 90% of men never get on a plane.
The prodaters primarily live in the industry hotbed of Odessa, Nikolaev and
Kiev. That's where a ton of men show up so they can be fleeced.

[Boethius]

I have been finding that most women don't want a much older guy in the FSU, its just that over time they realise what they seek tends to be with the older man as the young rich guys go fast and for younger women.

No, it is that the men seeing FSUW on dating sites and such skew old.  There is a saying in Ukraine, "When there's no meat, eat fish."


This post was composed without the aid of google.

[msmob]

Each year the number of desirable men for marriage in EVERY culture decreases.

Beel, don't be obtuse..I was referring to the ratio of men v women in Russia and UA..  Some websites still suggest 'better hunting' abroad based on this nonsense

The population of
men compared to the population of women is irrelevant. The number of desirable
men suitable for marriage shrinks.

How so ?

I've been asked a hundreds times at least.

First question ? ... I think not .. Of course we get asked it .. but 'first question '.. Nah ..

re VM/VO - My introducing the lunacy of restricting one's search to one city -seeems to have hit a raw nerve ?...

[msmob]

A guy or girl should consider everybody could be a potential mate. Minimize restrictions from the beginning and sort out the people after meeting them. I've dated young ladies and I'm also willing to bet I've dated more older ladies than any man on this board. I'll date any woman as long as she looks pleasant to my eyes.

SillyBillyB

What you mean is, "I've dated girls when I was a middle-aged man" and do you still date - or was that a Freudian slip ..?

I SERIOUSLY doubt your claim - which cannot be proven - either way - and if it makes you 'proud'...

I cannot remember who / how many ladies I've slept with and I think that proves what a tw8t I was - when younger..

You imply pro daters get men to visit. That's because they're willing to meet anybody. Regular women should be willing to meet everybody otherwise pro daters will get the lion's share of attention.

Define 'pro-dater'? Someone on commssion for meeing guys or a lady meeting guys - hoping to be wined and dined ... guys that they have no intention of developing a serious relationship with ..

'Regular' women - whatever they might be -are probably hoping to settle down and would consider leaving family and friends for the right guy

Young people tend to be choosy and don't understand their worth. They may overvalue themselves. They hold off for the bigger better deal but years go by and they remain lonely and they worth has gone down. The good men and women get married and stay married. As we get older, not much quality people left to choose from.

If anything I believe when we are younger we are LESS choosey - less wise and careful ..

[Jamesukjames]

Any Ukranian woman who has visited arab nations without her ukranian husband for a holiday is a prostitute same goes for Turkey and Greece.  Sadly the difference in wealth creates this industry.  She has just got too old to sell herself to the arabs there are plenty of 20s out there from the f s u  and now seeks a dumb yank to keep her.

[Trenchcoat]

Any Ukranian woman who has visited arab nations without her ukranian husband for a holiday is a prostitute same goes for Turkey and Greece.  Sadly the difference in wealth creates this industry.  She has just got too old to sell herself to the arabs there are plenty of 20s out there from the f s u  and now seeks a dumb yank to keep her.

Always makes me laugh these girls in Ukraine etc who think there the bizness when they are in their early to mid twenties and like to look down on the older guys that fall short in one area or another. Then when they start clocking up a few too many years themselves desperately seek those same guys to 'save' them from the fate of poverty in Ukraine, etc that is soon to befall them, lol. A case of severe short sightedness me thinks

[msmob]

Any Ukranian woman who has visited arab nations without her ukranian husband for a holiday is a prostitute same goes for Turkey and Greece.  Sadly the difference in wealth creates this industry.  She has just got too old to sell herself to the arabs there are plenty of 20s out there from the f s u  and now seeks a dumb yank to keep her.

What a crassly daft statement..

1/ My ex-wife has been going to Turkey for the last few years in September.. the sea is warmm and not so hot .. She works hard and I'm pretty sure she isn't on the game.. If she is in a relationship - she'd go with her bloke.. so does that mean being single - you are a prossie by taking hols abroad , now ?

2/ I know another divorced RU woman that goes to Italy on holiday - with her married neice... are they 'on the game' ?

3/ I know a divorced - from a Brit ,RU lady who went to the middle-east for a winter break ..  She went to meet an Italian guy working out there .. it didn't work out, ultimately - but was SHE a prossie, too ?

[2tallbill]

Beel, don't be obtuse..I was referring to the ratio of men v women in Russia and UA..  Some websites still suggest 'better hunting' abroad based on this nonsense

You were talking about something that doesn't matter, I was pointing
something out that did matter.

Beel, don't be obtuse..[because that's Moby's job]
How so ?

I explained how so. The mathematical census number of men vs women
is nearly the same. However, the number of desirable men decreases
at a higher rate than women.
 
More men go to prison than women. ₁
More men than women are alcoholics or drug addicts.₂
More men than women aren't interested in marriage.
More gay men than practicing gay women

Since there are less desirable high quality men available for marriage
than women it creates a perceived scarcity. This scarcity increases
as women age and it changes their habits and actions.

Larry once wrote about this years ago in another forum.
I'm going to try to paraphrase his post.

If there are 100 women in a room who desired marriage but
only 99 men 2 of which don't desire marriage at all and 2 of
them were otherwise undesirable whether they are gay, drunks,
addicts, in prison or something else then there are 100 women
who wanted marriage vs 95 desirable men, so there is going
to be 5 women who can't get what they want.

The hottest women will probably not have any problem at
all, but the less hot women start changing their habits. They
keep themselves slimmer, they look after their hair, skin, nails
etc. This has a ripple effect with the total population of women.

FSU women end up competing more for both the real and perceived
scarcity of marriageable men.

First question ? ... I think not .. Of course we get asked it .. but 'first question '.. Nah ..

I went back and looked you did say first question, you are correct
and I was wrong. I can't remember it ever being a first question.

First conversation? Yes. First date? Many times. I answer a question
or say something in Russian or know a common cultural thing and
then the subtle and often not so subtle questioning begins.

re VM/VO - My introducing the lunacy of restricting one's search to one city -seeems to have hit a raw nerve ?...

Not lunacy, not obtuse not nerves, just YOU trying to hijack a thread with
your quest of stamping out VM and conversations which show it in a positive
light.



1. http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/russian-federation
2. http://www.therecoveryvillage.com/drug-addiction/study-between-genders/#gref

[Boethius]

Always makes me laugh these girls in Ukraine etc who think there the bizness when they are in their early to mid twenties and like to look down on the older guys that fall short in one area or another. Then when they start clocking up a few too many years themselves desperately seek those same guys to 'save' them from the fate of poverty in Ukraine, etc that is soon to befall them, lol. A case of severe short sightedness me thinks

The vast majority of Ukrainian former prostitutes who worked abroad are not "poor".  Not even by Western standards. 

Yet another example of your complete lack of knowledge of the society.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

[Trenchcoat]

I agree with Bill, the logic is sound and it goes a long way to understanding why there is a 'hidden' statistic behind the number of women to men we are quoted for Russia, Ukraine, etc. I think Bill has finally put that one to bed with his explanation. I know some thought in the past MOB websites were BSing when they were saying about 'so many more men than women' and the way it's is so because birth, alcholism and early death. We heard from a member how he saw this was added to be FSUM getting drunk passing out in the snow at night and succumbing to the cold. The MOB explaination didn't quite explain it correctly I think as Bill I believe has which led some to believe that MOB sites were duping westerners. That could be understood as some don't have the best reputation. The Kherson girl I was with explained the situation as the other guys left locally as being, drunks, druggies, homeless/poor, jobless, etc, etc, similar to what Bill has said. I think though she was Materialist she stated she was honest and I believe she always was now even though she was manipulative which is a strange combination of traits, but I guess why be dishonest to get something if you can get it by being manipulative, lol.

I think there is another factor that reduces the number of available men to women in the FSU perhaps more than any other and why a lot of FSW look abroad. That is the number of Men that are wealthy enough for the women. Not just materialistic women will look at this but also women that want a man to be able to provide for her not to work and also those that want a man to provide for children. This could reduce that 95 percent to way less and short of surveys we might only guess, say maybe down as much as 40, 50 or 60 ish men to every 100 women.

I'm also guessing the war in Ukraine is reducing the number of available Russian & Ukrainian men.

[msmob]

You were talking about something that doesn't matter, I was pointing
something out that did matter.

Says .. YOU ...  Are you the arbitrator of 'relevance' when your figures don't match up ?

I explained how so. The mathematical census number of men vs women
is nearly the same. However, the number of desirable men decreases
at a higher rate than women.

You're takling about RU/ UA men in their mid-fifties or more..  This site is predominently guys in their forties, fifties and sixties chasing lasses in their twenties and thirties ..
 

More men go to prison than women.
More men than women are alcoholics or drug addicts.₂
More men than women aren't interested in marriage.
More gay men than practicing gay women

Do you have ANY info to back up your gut feeling on some of these 'opinions' you offer as 'fact' ?

Larry once wrote about this years ago in another forum.
I'm going to try to paraphrase his post.

If there are 100 women in a room who desired marriage but
only 99 men 2 of which don't desire marriage at all and 2 of
them were otherwise undesirable whether they are gay, drunks,
addicts, in prison or something else then there are 100 women
who wanted marriage vs 95 desirable men, so there is going
to be 5 women who can't get what they want.

The hottest women will probably not have any problem at
all, but the less hot women start changing their habits. They
keep themselves slimmer, they look after their hair, skin, nails
etc. This has a ripple effect with the total population of women.

FSU women end up competing more for both the real and perceived
scarcity of marriageable men.

Not sure, ..Was this alll Larry's words ? .. There is yh that RU UA woen are 'desparate '..I looked for thoseladies who had been on dating sites for ages and given up .. there seems to be a paucity of western guys who have a clue ..

I went back and looked you did say first question, you are correct
and I was wrong. I can't remember it ever being a first question.

Thanks 

First conversation? Yes. First date? Many times. I answer a question
or say something in Russian or know a common cultural thing and
then the subtle and often not so subtle questioning begins.

As both our experiences are more than half a decade old - mine more recent - I suggest this rarely comes  up in the first few questions - but i know it's coming .. hardly surprising if we both know 'enough' Russian to make ladies sit up and think.. "HOW does this guy know so much Russian "?

Not lunacy, not obtuse not nerves, just YOU trying to hijack a thread with
your quest of stamping out VM and conversations which show it in a positive
light.

Best not try and think what my motives were .. when guys confine themselves to searches by cities - rather than a lass that stands out ..that IS lunacy ..

1. http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/russian-federation
2. http://www.therecoveryvillage.com/drug-addiction/study-between-genders/#gref

Thanks, you did include two references - but not for all your 'theories '..

BTW, we had a so called friend of SCs steal two of her credit cards and draw cash ..SC  called the banks as she got sms for the cash advances while at home.. The 'friend' took an overnight train to Moscow and a flight to Thailand and a year later was arrested - she had come back to Sochi ..

SC attended her trial and was asked if she'd take the perp under her wing .. which she refused - as she was coming to Georgia and NO WAY did she trust the poor soul ..   SC has a kind heart and is v.trusting .. !

Russia sends 65 year old ladies to prison, too .. ( not her first offence - so it transpired )

[Boethius]

FSU women end up competing more for both the real and perceived scarcity of marriageable men.

I disagree. 

Most FSU individuals marry young.  That is skewing upward, but most are married in their twenties. 

There is still a perceived bias against divorced women in the FSU.  Plus, there are younger women, in their twenties, available and that divorced men can chase.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

[msmob]

The vast majority of Ukrainian former prostitutes who worked abroad are not "poor".  Not even by Western standards. 

Yet another example of your complete lack of knowledge of the society.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Many 'Natasha's - as they are called in Turkey -  tend to be RU speakers from .. Moldavia .. as opposed to UA / RU ..   

I agree with Boethius - they often return home to their Ma's who've looked after their kid -  with enough cash to buy an apartment

As usual, Trench agrees with what he wants to hear - not anything like reality ..

It is an oft told sob story by FSU women that their men are weak, drunkards...  often these 'weak' men took younger lovers when their SUCESS went to their heads ..

[Trenchcoat]

It is an oft told sob story by FSU women that their men are weak, drunkards...  often these 'weak' men took younger lovers when their SUCESS went to their heads ..

Oh please!!! Lol, Mobe the FSU does not have all the 'success' stories the west have of guys making it rich. Just because this is common in your western world it is not so in the FSU. Most guys are going to be between poor to average wealth, even your statement in the west would struggle, you make it sound like a load of FSUM all the time get wealthy and decide to trade up, lol. They may not all be weak drunkards but I'm sure there are umpteen other more plausible reasons than they got wealthy and 'traded up'.

[Trenchcoat]

 
There is still a perceived bias against divorced women in the FSU.  Plus, there are younger women, in their twenties, available and that divorced men can chase.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

No doubt it is seen if they got divorced once then they are liable to again, if there are other women around to chose from them the local guy may not want to risk wasting time and bother with these divorcees. I must admit even when I see divorced in a FSW profile I wonder why and the need for caution in moving ahead.