So does anyone here ever go to Ukraine or Russia to date anymore?

[GregfromGa]

I mean I can certainly appreciate all things political as much as the next guy. It's just more often than not I like to read an occasional trip report here from time to time or save some poor unsuspecting snapperhead from a scammer or hear a good story about how maybe just someone getting on a plane to go actually meet someone. Of course there's always the not so often threads about how crazy some of these women are that actually come here and assimilate or more often not assimilate. Didn't this place get credit for a hookup a few years ago? His name was John and he was a mode here for a while. I'm friends with them on facebook but I seldom hear much from them.

[BillyB]

A few new guys pop in asking for tips about dating and travel advice from time to time. It slowed down. The fear factor has had an impact on people's love lives.

[RoboCop]

I set up a mate of mine from work with a girl from Kazan. He's going there to meet her in April.

Most people simply don't write about their experiences, which is a shame really, it'll be good to get a myriad of different perspectives.

[calmissile]

A few new guys pop in asking for tips about dating and travel advice from time to time. It slowed down. The fear factor has had an impact on people's love lives.

In addition, it's not the best time of year to go to Ukraine.  Depending on what happens with the war, it might pick up in the summer.   I see that Mark Davis is still having his tours, even in the winter.

[Larry1]

In addition, it's not the best time of year to go to Ukraine.  Depending on what happens with the war, it might pick up in the summer.   I see that Mark Davis is still having his tours, even in the winter.

Someone told me the Davis guy is having Colombian tours now too.

[ML]

I gave some thought to going over to have some more dates.

Apparently I even talked about it in my sleep.

But when I woke up, my new wife informed me that it wouldn't happen.

She has some 'control' issues . . . apparently.

[viking]

ML. Agree. Seems wifes have issues with dating. Who knew?

[mroz87]

Yes. Myself. And probably for the final time. I am writing from my apartment in Kiev.

Ukraine is a wasteland now. I see very few foreigners. I do not see the combo involving foreign men and local ladies. This combo always stand out due to age gap or dress code difference, or I can tell with the translator hanging around. Most English speaking locals, which are not a lot to begin with, appeared to have left, probably because they have a better chance of leaving. Arena city is pretty much an abandoned place, and Mandarin plaza has more security guards than visitors. It has been this way after Yanukovych and his gang fled. Even the local hustlers and hookers are almost gone.

I met from scammers to pro-daters one after another. When one local girl registers in a personals site, she has more than 500 views in a few hours time. I have communication with some, and have potential date that turns out to be flake. As I am standing now, I am 'supposed' to have two dates soon. Supposedly I guess.

Gentlemen, save your money and enjoy it in other places.

[Gator]

Yes. Myself. And probably for the final time. I am writing from my apartment in Kiev.

Ukraine is a wasteland now. I see very few foreigners. I do not see the combo involving foreign men and local ladies. This combo always stand out due to age gap or dress code difference, or I can tell with the translator hanging around. Most English speaking locals, which are not a lot to begin with, appeared to have left, probably because they have a better chance of leaving. Arena city is pretty much an abandoned place, and Mandarin plaza has more security guards than visitors. It has been this way after Yanukovych and his gang fled. Even the local hustlers and hookers are almost gone.

I met from scammers to pro-daters one after another. When one local girl registers in a personals site, she has more than 500 views in a few hours time. I have communication with some, and have potential date that turns out to be flake. As I am standing now, I am 'supposed' to have two dates soon. Supposedly I guess.

Gentlemen, save your money and enjoy it in other places.

Excellent report.  Thanks for posting.  Sorry that your trip is not like the ol' days. 

I can understand fewer western men on the MOB trail today.  However, I would have thought in a warlike climate that even more UW would be seeking ways to emigrate.  Where are the sincere UW?  Have they already left, or have they become patriotic and helping the war effort?   Or is the word coming back from their sisters already in the West  discouraging?   

[ML]

mroz87, there are many posters here who encourage men to . . . just go, get your feet wet, boots on the ground, etc., mingle with the locals, pick up gals at supermarket and on dating sites after you are on location.

Don't know your complete story or how you prepared for your trip, but it sounds as if you might have followed the above advice and are now reaping the results.

A diametrically opposed approach is to plan out your trip thoroughly before getting on the plane and includes having meetings with dozens of gals for specific times and dates lined up.

This latter approach is detailed here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

[Gator]

mroz87,

Morose indeed.  Any improvement?  We are pulling for you to have a good time and meet some fine women. 

[BillyB]

  Where are the sincere UW?

Hard to think about love when death is on the mind. Also, my wife feels Obama is giving Americans a bad name by being weak when the going gets tough.

[iceshaft07]

I went to Odessa back in November. All was well. I later learned a bomb went off on train tracks-- it was apparently carrying goods for the Ukrainian military.

I hear a bomb went off in a bank that was making donations to the Ukrainian Army. That was last Sunday. I also heard that the Ukrainian army has put the national guard in place to protect the city.

I have plans to officially propose with a ring on my next trip in March. I'm keeping an eye on the situation.

I might also have another trip in August if the K-1 gets approved by then.

When I went, I pretended that I was a local as best as I could. I stayed out of politics, kept my mouth shut, and avoided gatherings.

[mroz87]

Hey guys. I wasn't abandoning the thread. Just that I devoted more time in organising and searching. If you are curious, my trip was pre-planned, so it is not just getting on the boots and bang my head everywhere I go. Having said that, planning doesn't quite work when the odds are against me. Just for an analogy, I can plan all day and still end up losing if I stay in the casino long enough. In reality, I have better odds in the casino than meeting a genuine woman in Kiev. Maybe things changed, but meeting an english speaking woman randomly in the street does not work, simply because no one speaks english anymore. Even the places that supposedly hire english speaking staff, generally I find their english speaking ability to be low.

The ladies I know all have certain level of english proficiency, so it is probably not the best time to divulge too much information about my journey yet. The scammers and pro-daters probably don't care, but the real one might, and I am sure both men and women trawl the forums seeking information.

I happened to meet a woman who appears like a perfect fit. We have the same outlook in life, and have matching behaviour. We have so much in common, my only little worry is I know her from an agency. I sent her a message after we parted ways. I hope I will receive a response soon. If not, then it is probably another pro-dater set-up. Pro-daters usually have little to no communication after meeting, because it is like 'job done and go home' for them. Fingers crossed for me!

[Chelseaboy]

mroz87,

              From my personal experience pro-daters DO continue communication after meeting.

The one i met in Kiev requested money for a magical cure for her "chronic cough " two months after our meeting,which i declined.

I later found out this was while she was banging a guy from Canada in Kiev and getting serious money out of him.

Be very careful.

[BillyB]

In reality, I have better odds in the casino than meeting a genuine woman in Kiev.

Shouldn't be that way. You're doing something wrong if you're meeting all the wrong girls.

[Gator]

Shouldn't be that way. You're doing something wrong if you're meeting all the wrong girls.

Mroz87 is saying things have changed.  You have not been there recently so your experiences are outdated.   Your opinion is no longer valid if things have indeed changed.

If things have changed, where have all the good girls gone?

[AC]

Shouldn't be that way. You're doing something wrong if you're meeting all the wrong girls.

Perhaps he should have chosen a different city other then Kiev. 

[jone]

Mroz87 is saying things have changed.  You have not been there recently so your experiences are outdated.   Your opinion is no longer valid if things have indeed changed.

If things have changed, where have all the good girls gone?

Gone to young men, every one.

Oh, when will they ever learn .......

[Chicagoguy]

Gone to young men, every one.

Oh, when will they ever learn .......

 

[SANDRO43]

If things have changed, where have all the good girls gone?

[mroz87]

chelseaboy,

We might be referring to different categories of pro-daters, or the same category that may have changed.

To allow for comparison, when did you meet that pro-dater? And where did you first know her? Agency? Online free sites (FSU oriented)? Online dating sites (general)? Bar / pub (normal)? Bar / pub (known for flings and hookers)? On the street?

Anyway, you don't need to answer these questions. That pro-daters category I referred to are almost always associated with the pay per xxx agency model: pay per letter, pay per date, etc.

It typically goes like this:
1) She will act nice and interested, with only one limitation: you don't get any further than a quick peck on the cheek, or you simply get quick hugs in the beginning or end of meeting. When together, physical proximity is kept minimal, but not totally zero. You don't get the touchy-feely expression that you normally get as you remember from your own past dating experience (in your own country of course). She will throw a fit if there is the smallest hint of physical intimacy, and shove that under the carpet under the guise of her 'culture'.

2) She will act nice and interested, but only when she is around. Once the meeting is finished and both parted ways, her communication becomes irregular. She then work very hard, long hours and work many days, even weekends. During work, she is so serious such that she never check out on you. No message, no call, nothing. If you question this, she might throw a fit in a similar manner as above. But she might simply 'reappear' again.

3) She usually show 'romantic' interest too quickly, but it is just blanket statements since there is little to no physical proximity. In addition, this so called interest is not backed up by the DEPTH of her communication with you, most of which are very short (as if she's always so busy), does not elaborate (on her own local knowledge and her life), and pretty much laden with 'I miss you, kisses, really want to know you'.

4) She has no internet. She don't like to look at computer screen. She can only write at work (has to write short, no time). Internet keeps breaking down. She has to help her mum tonight, tomorrow night, cannot check mail. Just very busy.

5) Occasional fillers in her communication include her birthday, her mum's birthday, this festival, that festival, something broken....aka opportunity to ask for gifts / money. She will also want you to pay for everything, and must receive the gifts / money immediately without reasonable assessment of the situation (of course she might disappear any time, so she must get benefits immediately).

6) She will emphasize the ordinary things that she has done for you. Like, really seriously emphasized it. Repeatedly sometimes. Well, just so you remember to comply with (5).

7) She does the same to many men. For each man she meets or communicates, she gets a cut, and sometimes independent gifts or money as icing on the cake. Eventually she will always leave every man, and replenishes with new ones. Most popular reasons: you don't understand her 'culture' by not doing what she wants; you don't stand in line with the expectation of her 'culture'; she doesn't date 'sex tourist'; in her culture men 'take care' of the women (sounds legit but why so little physical proximity at all, let alone intimacy, LOL).

Most stories I read in recent years follow this format, and also consistent with my personal experience.
What annoys me the most, is there appears some western men self rationalized this scenarios and act like it's normal dating an alien. Then some of these men start teaching other men that this is just normal and we men should respect her 'culture' 

[northkape]

I don't agree at all with the negative attitude to dating in Ukraine now.

With much more than a hundred thousand Ukraine women, having profiles on dating sites now.
It's in my opinion, a country overflowing with serious women waiting for an equally serious man to start a new life together with.

And I don't understand this focus on "unserious women"
If you follows ML's or my guidelines, scammers are very few and far between, and easy to spot and weed out.

I still keep in touch with many of the Ukraine women I met with and had relationships with in the last two years.
They are all very slim, young (31-35), beautiful, with higher education, english, good economy and a stable relatively happy life.
But they all want and miss a good man in their life,, almost all of them however, are still searching.
 
Out of those I was considering for marrying with,,,,
Kirhovorad32 is the only one, who has settled for a man to marry with, to happen this summer in Australia.
Kiev32, has been to France several times last year, meeting with 2 different men,, but no go.
Kiev33 has moved into her new apartment in Irpin, letting her central Kiev apartment out for rent, met twice with a man from Denmark, but no go.
The others had one or at the most 2 meetings with no success after march 2014.

Some complaints, about the men they met with were:
attitude with their child, unhealthy appearance, drinking alcohol, control issues, sexual complexes, potency problems, small dicks, ++++
In their opinion, they have a lot of such men at home already, so they are not willing to move unless they can find something better.

For a healthy serious man there should be a lot of very nice women to choose from in Ukraine today.

[mroz87]

northkape,

I think it's up to the readers to distinguish which statements are facts and which are opinions. If facts give a negative attitude then so be it. Sugar coating does not change the situation, but you and everyone else has the right to feel in any way you deemed most appropriate.

Just my curiosity. You don't have to answer if you are not comfortable.
Your status said you are married for 10+ years, and then your post said you had relationships with some women in the last two years? I am missing something here.

Anyway, I do not disagree with what you said about the possibility of getting women here. Just one caveat for anyone's reading this. You are referring to women who are considered fairly 'aged' by Ukrainian standards. Recently I added a Ukrainian woman of age 18 to my facebook, then I saw a photo of her with her sister....ummm....it's actually her mum, age 36. This is not my opinion. Readers, you may come to Ukraine and ask the locals.

Fact 1: Most Ukrainian women marry in the early 20s.
Fact 2: These women have kids in early and mid 20s.
Fact 3: A considerable number of these women divorced at mid 20s, some early 30s.
Fact 4: Few Ukrainian women remain unmarried after age 30. [If you want one of them, you need to know why they are still unmarried. Caveat Emptor!]
Fact 5: Ukrainians have an internal passport showing their relationship status. If they married before and have kids, it will show up.
Fact 6: You can get a clean slate if you pay the right person the right amount of money. Ouch!

According to a local friend, it goes like this. Almost all Ukrainian women in 20s have boyfriends. If they don't marry at mid 20s, the parents will take over the situation, sometimes forcefully. It can get very aggresive, because it is seen as the guy cheating / taking their daughter for a ride. The guy and the girl usually bow to pressure and marry, and for many of them, it is set to fail because deep down they aren't ready without the right financial foundation. If a woman reached age 30s and still unmarried, babushki starts the rumor mill. Usually prostitutes and a rich man's sugar baby are the one remains unmarried at this age. This causes immense stress to the family.

Ukrainian women is best when they are under 30, physically and mentally (without much emotional baggage). The trick is finding one who is genuine and with no hidden agenda. Not everyone goes to the FSU to look for women age in the 30s with kids, just saying. I also do not believe women who openly speak to a male friend about her companion's 'sexual issue' constitute an appropriate behaviour (and vice versa too).

[Chelseaboy]

mroz87,

               I met that pro-dater in November 2011,and she was an agency girl.