Poroshenko claims Ukraine is now being offered weapons by NATO.

[Chelseaboy]

He says NATO will be supplying Ukraine with advanced precision lethal weaponry to fight Russian troops and pro=Russian separatists with.

He states this in an interview recorded on Friday with the BBC,after the NATO summit.

[lordtiberius]

Do you believe him?  Do you believe the West will come through?

[JohnDearGreen]

He says NATO ....

Incorrect.  Certain individual countries made that decision on their own outside of NATO, although it happened at the NATO meeting.


"Petro Poroshenko emphasised the agreement was reached not with the Alliance as a whole, but with some of its member states."

[Chelseaboy]

So what ?

With so many countries in NATO,obviously not every country in NATO will agree to everything...that's why there's been so much dithering over Ukraine...just like the EU and their economic sanctions against Russia,not all countries are taking part in them either.

Some countries just bury their heads in the sand and hope the problem will go away...Germany being particularly guilty of this despite Angela Merkel's tough public words...too much money involved with Russia for them to want to get seriously involved...and money is more important than Ukrainian lives in their minds.

Point is only the most powerful military forces in NATO have that weaponry anyway,and they'll be the ones supplying it to Ukraine...if Poroshenko is to be believed about lethal weapons being supplied to Ukraine.

[Chelseaboy]

Reuters today :

Aide to Poroshenko says Ukraine will get weapons from five NATO members..including the USA.

[Isthmus]

A protracted war in Ukraine will end up being the Putin regime's political death. Vlad is actually showing himself to be a strategic imbecile.

[missAmeno]

Vlad anymore doesn't have a way back. Russia's way out is only revolution and civil war, tho russians by themselves don't see that yet, give them couple of years to comprehend what Vlad done to them and their country.

[lordtiberius]

A protracted war in Ukraine will end up being the Putin regime's political death. Vlad is actually showing himself to be a strategic imbecile.

Anyone else disagree with this?  Because I think it is spot on.

[BillyB]

Anyone else disagree with this?  Because I think it is spot on.

From what I've seen on the internet, most Russian citizens believe Ukraine is their business. Long war or not, Putin is not going away unless he wants to go away. If he loses popularity someday, he may have to rule the nation with an iron fist to stay in power.

[lordtiberius]

Do you believe Putin to be a strategic imbecile?  Because I do.  How about you?

[JohnDearGreen]

Talk vs Action (yesterday towards Lugansk)
http://tsn.ua/bin/player/embed.php/384057460

[BillyB]

Do you believe Putin to be a strategic imbecile?  Because I do.  How about you?

Putin got Crimea. He's getting his way in Ukraine more than the West is. In other words, he's winning. When he' stops acquiring real estate, he understands in a few years the sanctions will go away and everybody will be back to business as usual. Unless the West is willing to do more than sanctions, Putin is going to win.

[Doll]

Anyone else disagree with this?  Because I think it is spot on.

I do. Putin's position is very strong. He doesn't look (his actions) like imbecile at all.

[Drew]

Even as I despise Putin and the majority of Russians who support him, it is foolish to think that he is not winning or that his actions mean the downfall of Russia, etc.

The world has too many problems right now in too many places.

The citizens of USA and the government of USA are tired of all these problems and don't want to get further involved.  The same goes for the western European countries.

Our current time has given Putin a huge opportunity and he is taking it.  Putin and Russia will end up keeping all territory that they want to, and all sanctions against Russia will be lifted.  The world will let out a sigh of relief that it is over, except for the citizens of Ukraine and the families who have lost loved ones.

At some point in the future, Russia will move again against other countries.

And at some more distant point, the countries of the world will say; how did we let this happen.  We saw what happened with Germany's expansion pre-WWII and vowed it would not happen again.  But we did let it happen.

I only hope that the USA will stop issuing visitors visas to all Russians.  They are a thoroughly despicable people.

It doesn't matter how many of you say,  oh no, my parent's in law are wonderful people, the Russian people are so great and warm once you get into their homes, bla bla bla.

Everyone here knows it down deep just how rotten to the core these people are, but can't for obvious reasons bring yourselves to say it or even think it.

[Doll]

The citizens of USA and the government of USA are tired of all these problems and don't want to get further involved.  The same goes for the western European countries.

Really?
Read this
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/

[Doll]

I only hope that the USA will stop issuing visitors visas to all Russians

Then no Americans will be admitted in RF.

[Drew]

Then no Americans will be admitted in RF.

That would be fine.  Only idiots would want to go there anyway.

[Doll]

That would be fine.  Only idiots would want to go there anyway.

Haha
Then this forum "for idiots" needs to close.

[Isthmus]

Vlad anymore doesn't have a way back. Russia's way out is only revolution and civil war, tho russians by themselves don't see that yet, give them couple of years to comprehend what Vlad done to them and their country.

Precisely, he has painted himself into a corner and there is little room for manoeuvre now. He has had to whip nationalist jingoism at home combined with absurd anti Ukrainian propaganda on one hand and on the other hand, diplomatic and economic isolation will really start to hit the Russian economy soon. Contrary to what some people think, there really is actually little fat in the Russian economy and it will be seriously buffeted by the storm on the horizon.

One other direct long term strategic legacy is that Ukraine will probably become a hostile enemy State to Russia soon as the point of no return is nearing (and may already even be in the rear view mirror). This is a blunder of epic proportions that after this war is over will have Ukraine (whatever its territorial configuration is) either joining NATO or arming themselves with nuclear weapons and the second largest Slavic nation will become an avowed enemy of Russia.

[fathertime]

Really?
Read this
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/

Thanks Doll for providing the link.  It is a laugh reading/listening to Harf try to tapdance out of the obvious inconsistencies and hypocrisy of our foreign policies. 

Fathertime!

[Doll]

Thanks Doll for providing the link.  It is a laugh reading/listening to Harf try to tapdance out of the obvious inconsistencies and hypocrisy of our foreign policies. 

Fathertime!

Read Psaki- she is more amusing.

[fathertime]

One other direct long term strategic legacy is that Ukraine will probably become a hostile enemy State to Russia soon as the point of no return is nearing (and may already even be in the rear view mirror). This is a blunder of epic proportions that after this war is over will have Ukraine (whatever its territorial configuration is) either joining NATO or arming themselves with nuclear weapons and the second largest Slavic nation will become an avowed enemy of Russia.

I think from Russia's pov that was going to happen anyway and they would have been completely shut out   I don't see anybody giving Ukraine atomic weapons as that would pretty much assure nuclear war and nobody would escape the effects of even a limited exchange.
Fathertime!

[Isthmus]

I do. Putin's position is very strong. He doesn't look (his actions) like imbecile at all.

I think he is doing a great job at entrenching himself in power and sweeping away the remnants of a normal, civil society in Russia. If his aim is to rule a closed, paranoid, isolated Russia until his (natural) death I think he is doing a pretty good job.

If the objective is to enhance Russia's standing in the world and leave it in a strong strategic position for the future I think his rule will be looked back in years to come as disastrous.

[Isthmus]

I think from Russia's pov that was going to happen anyway and they would have been completely shut out   I don't see anybody giving Ukraine atomic weapons as that would pretty much assure nuclear war and nobody would escape the effects of even a limited exchange.
Fathertime!

Ukraine was no way near joining NATO prior to this conflict. It certainly will after it is over.

Who gave North Korea, Pakistan or arguably Iran nuclear weapons? Unlike North Korea, Ukraine actually already possesses all the ingredients for a nuclear weapons program. Who can say to them that they have no need for it or "don't develop a nuclear weapons capability, we will guarantee your future security".

[alex330]

I think from Russia's pov that was going to happen anyway and they would have been completely shut out   I don't see anybody giving Ukraine atomic weapons as that would pretty much assure nuclear war and nobody would escape the effects of even a limited exchange.

Actually Ukraine is ramping up their nuclear program with the help of the US. People would survive a limited exchange if it occurred. Most people do not realize the Pentagon (through the DTRA) also has about 10 facilities in Ukraine where they produce weaponized biological agents. All facilities are right on the Russian border. There is one in Georgia and Kazakhstan (Central Reference Laboratory) as well.