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Author Topic: pretrip report to ukraine, 2005  (Read 41301 times)

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Offline jb

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pretrip report to ukraine, 2005
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2005, 04:03:48 AM »
anono, Robert

I have no intention of ever actually reading any of these automated computer generated letters.  The way that system works is to have the *client* purchase credits, (1 credit=$5.00) every letter opened would cost $5.

Below is a cut n paste of what hits my inbox everyday:

 
Quote
Dear Jon!
 A new letter (ID:1A81181001) has arrived to your mailbox at BeHappy2day.com! To see this letter, please log in with your user name and password then proceed to 'view inbox' link.

You can login here : http://www.behappy2day.com/login.php

Thank you
BeHappy2day.com staff
[/i]

I can imagine these "letters" generate a sizable cash flow for BeHappy from the unsuspecting men who actually believe there's a woman behind this scheme.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 04:08:00 AM by jb »

Offline TigerPaws

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pretrip report to ukraine, 2005
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2005, 05:13:51 AM »
Quote from: jb
Dear Jon!
A new letter (ID:1A81181001) has arrived to your mailbox at BeHappy2day.com! To see this letter, please log in with your user name and password then proceed to 'view inbox' link.

You can login here : http://www.behappy2day.com/login.php

Thank you
BeHappy2day.com staff
[/i]

I can imagine these "letters" generate a sizable cash flow for BeHappy from the unsuspecting men who actually believe there's a woman behind this scheme.

[/quote]
I am going to have to agree with jb, this is the very same business model for Anastasia Web which is well known as a total ripoff. Any agency which engages in canned letters is to be shunned and the word needs to be spread that they are not to be trusted.

 In deference to anono actually being in Tver, I would suggest that if he has met with the agency owners he inquire about why they have adopted such discredeted business practices?

Offline jb

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pretrip report to ukraine, 2005
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2005, 05:42:56 AM »
The actual schedule for purchasing credits from BeHappy is:

Quote
What do the Credits cost?


2 credits for   $10.00
4 credits for   $19.00
8 credits for   $36.00
16 credits for   $64.00
32 credits for   $115.00
50 credits for   $159.00
100 credits for   $269.00


So a poor lonely guy wants to get hooked up with some women, knowing he's going to have to write more than a few letters, how many credits do you suppose he's going to buy?  I'm guessing the averge joe schmuck is going to want to take advantage of the discount.  Nowhere in the FAQ is there ever a mention of how to get a refund for unsued credits once the guy has wised up to the fraud.

IMHO it's a scam, and these folks are not to be trusted out of sight.

Offline tim 360

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« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2005, 06:57:23 AM »
JB,  I would think this particuliar method of making $$$ exists in many variations.  It is in the economics of the biz.  Got to have cash flow and revenue. 

Lets say guy A and guy B open up a little agency there.  They develop an internet site with maybe 200 girls on it and have their photos and profiles on it.  They need an office and a small staff and telephones and computers.  They got to pay the rent etc.  They have to pay their staff or they probably won't have a staff for long.

So,  they gotta always have revenue,  aka: cash-flow coming in just to exist.  Just by the nature of this biz they got to get guys spending $.  Lets say that A & B are very good at this.  They get clients to come over and A & B handle everything and make all the arrangements for the foreign guy.  Here they make a nice tidy profit in the travel season.  But,  not so many travelers in the off season and biz is kinda slow.  Gotta pay the staff,  gotta pay the rent and gotta pay the bills.

Time to send out some emails.  Time to shake the bushes.  Of course,  the girl just saw the guys profile and she is very interested.  So very interested.  The staff transltor knows just what to write.  And,  of course the "girl" is a good looking girl and her profile reads that she loves to cook and clean and sew and she is dreaming to give all of her love to her beloved man.  And maybe it can be the lucky guy reading it.  Or,  the many men reading it.  Bingo!  It is a numbers game.  Some will reply.  If A & B send out 500 emails with "this girls" letter maybe just 5% will reply and pay.  Just 25 guys may not sound like much,  but the dollars add up fast.  Especially because A & B just realized they can do the same thing with say... their top 50 girls.  Now the money is looking better. 

After this,  there are many variations as anyone could imagine.  Even if A & B are regarded as highly ethical...this one 1st letter they sent may help the girl meet a good man?  It is possible?  Afterall A & B are matchmakers?  And they also peddle emails, translations, gifts, flowers, chocolate, perfumes, english lessons and pitch whatever gew-gaw some guy might buy for "his lady".

Different agencies use different triggers to get the $$$,  but it is all about $...it is all about money.  Just follow the money.  And it is almost like  A & B are doing a public service.  The guy is happy,  he sitting at his computer typing away to "his lady".  Whistling.  The lady is happy because now many men are sending her letters and some buy chocolates and flowers and gifts for her.  Some will come to visit.  Maybe take her shopping?  The landlords happy 'cuz he is getting paid.  And sometimes,  instead of taking the gifts or english lessons...she will get $10 or $20 Dollars from A & B.

And the staff is being paid and the rent and cash is flowing all over the place.  Everybodies happy!  And more men are coming over next week,  the day after these 8 guys leave. 

It's all about money.  These agencies ain't charitable non/profit organizations.  It's all biz.  And if you think these agencies are corrupt?  Imagine how corrupt they would be if some of our beloved American Corporations ran them?  Some of these companies really know how to increase their revenue.

 
"Never argue with a fool,  onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".  Mark Twain

Offline Bruno

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pretrip report to ukraine, 2005
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2005, 08:40:48 AM »
[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:
Quote
Lets say guy A and guy B open up a little agency there.  They develop an internet site with maybe 200 girls on it and have their photos and profiles on it.  They need an office and a small staff and telephones and computers.  They got to pay the rent etc.  They have to pay their staff or they probably won't have a staff for long... Bla Bla Bla...

Tim, it is now 4 month that i have start my site... i have around these 200 girls... my office is my own home, the telephone is my own telephone, computer is mine too... the staff is me and ... me :D... i work around 2 hours day for the site... in reality, my expense by month are around 60 euro ( domain name, internet, publicity in FSU for attract lady, ... )... these expense are pay with publicity for other...

Now, imagine if i ask a membership around 50$ year by guys, i will earn enough for life each day and can be retired from my gardener work... if i was located in Russia, i will earn enough for be in the categorie of rich people in Russia... and for have a staff for side service...

These big agency make monstruous money each month, and only some % are needed for cover expense... the rest is pure benefice... why do you think that my sponsor give me 35% of all the sales generated by my visitor... it's mean that with 65%, they have always enough for make benefice, pay staff, build the site, ... and they pay woman for be registered on her site...

Sorry, they don't need these system of false letter for life... it is only for generate more money more fast... it is the American dream in Russia... how to be milliardaire in 5 year and be retired...

 

 

Offline anono

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« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2005, 09:24:26 AM »
had my first meeting with a lady who looked at me as if i was half crazy when i told her i decided to meet her because she wrote to me. bingo, confirmed the automated letters routine.

she was younger than my age limit (19), may age limit being 25. i might have put 22 on behappy, if this internet wasn't so slow and it would take 30 minutes to find out, i'd check.

will she meet me again when and if i come back to tver? yes. but she did not hit me like my interpreter did. i met one lady that saw my profile in the office. when a man is in town, they print out your profile and pin it on the wall. i had thought i was meeting a lady i had made a response to. i should have looked at her profile. short, kinda chubby and i would not have written to this lady EVER. so a complete waste of my time and $50. i told the agency there must be some mistake. i told them only ladies i had written to. they told me about this lady seing my profile on the wall. i did not know this until afterwards. i take the blame because i looked across the table at an extreme angle while looking at her profile and did not realize it was a lady i did not write to. i cannot fault the agency for this.  i should have looked closer and told them no way. i was polite but not happy, took her to have coofee and split as soon as possible. i think she picked up on the lack of vibes as my a little too cocky 18yr old interpreter told me that the lady did not like me either. fine, i said. feeling is mutual.

about this new interpreter. 18, wants to go to milan and model. appartently her dad is someone big (won't tell me what he does, it's a secret she says) but, apparently she can go. she has been to other countries with her family. she is a bit too cocky for me, acts as if she already knows everything. fine. just wait little girl. almost reminds me of AW.

ok..now for something completely different...

if the desire and drive to have a partner for at least a good part of the remainder of my life, and if there were not so many beautiful women running around the FSU, i'd give up. one disappointment after another. not that there is anything "wrong" with the ladies, but i know what i want and i do not see it very often. the other interpreter i am "in love" with (it's a joke guys, i'm not in love of course, but i wish it could be her) is just so perfect looking to me, i just know it is going to be very hard or take some incredible luck to meet the right lady. i am absolutely positive i have passed on several, maybe many, ladies who could and would love me and be good to great partners. but dang it, i came here to find my firstdream (that's a hat off to you, jack) and i am NOT going to "settle" for second best. i want a freaking model type, with a good personality, attitude and great in bed. am i asking for too much? if i was in the usa, yes. here, if you have the PERSERVERANCE, you can find it (and if you have what it takes, and i'm not talking money) they all think we're rich. by comparison we are, but i am surprised at how many of these ladies had rich boyfriends or husbands. one was married to a dentist for 5 years. most leave because the guy was a drunk or had too many other girlfriends or simply did not treat them very good in general. had a lady in kiev tell me her rich husband never gave her money and when she went into the hospital he told her to have her dad pay for it. what an ass.

no wonder these women look elsewhere.

i'm disappointed but i have only been in tver three days. john at behappy told me, if a guy can't find a lady here, he can't find one and i tend to agree. the place is full of them and it isn't even good weather yet. just yesterday had a decent day, didn't need my coat. today it rained a little and the temp dropped some.

i can't stop looking, i have too much invested in this. i like "o", probably would be fine with her but then there is that feeling when i saw the interpreter i love. i had a similar feeling for "o" but not as strong, not as certian, not as "hands down, this lady looks perfect". i like the super thin, mostly tall, dark hair blue or green eyes. met a great looking lady the first day that fits the description but her brown eyes ar so plain by comparison. the blue or green just gives them an almost exotic look. if that lady had brilliant blue eyes, it might have made all the difference in the world. am i being picky? you bet. i want a wife. i want as close to what i want as possible. i am not going to overlook those plain brown eyes. even mine are hazel. "o" is better looking with her blues eyes, even if her face was not as cute as the brown eyes girl. "o" is a beauty so when i say this, i am talking very very slight differences. i want to feel that feeling i had when i first looked at that interpreter. i still do every time i see her in the office. i think they put me with this other interpreter because they know i like the one girl and maybe she feels uncomfortable spending any more time with me knowing how i feel.

i have more ladies to meet in ukraine and other places so i am just going to have to go and do it. it's a numbers game as so many of us seasoned guys say. if my interpreter was without a boyfriend and the feeling was mutual, i'd be writing my success story. even then, once you meet a lady, there are no guarantees. i might give up "o" and never do better but that is the risk i take for wanting the best i can do.

this is NOT easy. one would think dating mostly beautiful young ladies would be great fun and in some ways it is. if you are just playing, this is the place to play because a lot of the girls are playing too. just try and not hurt the feelings of the sincere ladies.

i have to go back to moscow tomorrow, stay with "o" one more night and then retuen to kiev. i have a lady i have been trying to meet since last year waiting for my call. i'll meet her and then i'm off to the usa for 3-4 weeks before i come back for another go at this.

it's hard work but someone's got to do it.

Offline anono

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« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2005, 09:31:10 AM »
one more thing. i read what tim has to say and also jb, bruce. i dunno. my intuitive part tells me, fabricated letters are deceptive and it's a scam. what tim says is also true and i do not think these agencies make much money. john at BH says so several times. he tells me stories of the guys who think this should be FREE!!!  they are surpride to find they have internet, electric, phone bills and rent. bruno may work out of his home for next to nothing but behappy is a full time open office with activity going on all the time. someone has to pay for all this and that someone is us guys looking for a wife. think the ladies can afford this and you're nuts.

i also think a grounded guy like richard can run an agency, he might break even but i do not see anyone driving mercedes to these offices. so ui tend to agree that these agencies should not be fabricating letters but at the same time i just met with a lady who never wrote to me and if i wanted to follow up on it, i could. i think she is too young for me and she does not have the look i want. but would the other interpreter be too young? nope, i'd give it a try. i just feel it. i just look at her and think how perfect. and yes, things could change but i'm not counting on it.

Offline Rvrwind

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pretrip report to ukraine, 2005
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2005, 10:39:21 AM »
No Hard feelings at all Ron, but now its my turn, LOL.

First of all I don't know who told you I was fired from BeHappy but that is a complete lie. I quit BeHappy cause Marc Dayton offered me more money to work for him & I didn't like the way things were changing at BeHappy so it was a relatively easy decision to make. For all their faults at least LTP is honest. I was let go from LTP because it came down to me or Marcs ex-mother-in-law , so I lost, but Marc himself will tell you I did nothing wrong & was a complete gentleman through the whole situation. He even told me should the company ever sell he would recommend me to the new owners.

As for the letters at BH, John don't know jack, he is just telling you what Yaroslav tells him & as he doesn't understand more than four words in Russian he has no clue as to what is really going on in that office, I however do. I also have interpreters working for me who will tell you that they were paid to write letters for the women & some were fired or quit because they refused. The staff there is treated like crap & if you took notice you would have aslo noticed that they are all very young. Why?, is the question you should ask here. Because they can be controlled, the older & more experienced interpreters will not work for him.

They fire the letters off the way they do because they make a fortune on them. Yaroslav himself has said he could give a rats a$$ if any of you guys showed up & actually would prefer you didn't. He makes plenty off the letters & doesn't particularly care about dealing with everybody who comes over & holding their hands. Of course he has John for that now.

Yes, you got lucky & the 2 ladies you wanted to see turned out to be real. I will admit there are a lot of real women there but the way they do it is imoral if not illegal & should not be acceptable to anyone. What they count on is the fact that you will meet a couple of hotties, even if they weren't the ones you were writing to, that didn't exsist, & this has happened. But you will be all happy because you got to spend time with a couple of hardbodies & you will forget that they played you to get you there & you will come home & tell everybody about those hard bodies & not the scam that brought you here.

I know of one guy who did exactly that & pissed me right off. He was writing to 2 women at BH, came to meet them, found out niether one of them had ever heard of him, then bitched to me about it but doesn't come here & say a word or on any other board. Sure he got to meet them, but they already exchanged several letters that BH was paid for, but the women never heard of him, hmmmm, sounds awful fishy to me. But because he got to meet them & a few other hardbodies ,he let it slide. That is what keeps these guys in buisness & making big bucks. If they didn't do it the way they do & had to be legit like myself or LTP, they couldn't compete against us. So like any cardshark they have to deal from the bottom of the deck to servive & you guys continue to support them.

Exscuse my but I'm baffled!!!

Not directed at you Ron just guys in general. I like you but we gotta work on your priorities,LOL. Thanks for the Coke & Pizza.

RVR

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Offline Rvrwind

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« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2005, 11:05:04 AM »
Okay now that I beat the crap out of Ron I'm going to bring a few people up to speed & tell you why I am doing some of the things I am doing.

First of all, yes I am opening my own agency, in fact it has already been in the slow process for about four months & yes I have several clients already on the books & using our services.

#1- WE WILL & DO CHARGE FOR LETTER WRITING!!!

However that does not make me a scam agency & Iwill tell you why. I only charge one way, your way, you get the ladies replies for FREE!! Why do I do this? Simple, as has been said there are a lot of Keyboard Cowboys out there & they take up the time of my office staff the same way the real guys do, but, in the case of a full service agency that charges a membership the guys who show up are really the guys footin' the bill for the players. The way I look at it, is if they are paying their own way then the guys who do show up pay less cause now I don't have to charge big bucks to cover the guys who don't show up. Their paying the frieght for their own stupidity.

I was going to list all my services but decided not to, its a long list. I decided to leave this one as it seems to be a contentious issue with some guys. But I submit that for what I charge for my services is way less than everybody else in town & all will be revealed when our website is launched May 15th. Just wanted to show you that you can charge for letter writing  & not be a scam agency. Its all in how its done.

Way too much typing for here & I got other things to do.:)

RVR

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Offline Leslie

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« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2005, 01:04:51 PM »
Hi Robert,

 

Sorry that the situation with "O" went south.  You are right not to discuss anything personal on a public board - perhaps we can chat once you are home and over the "jet lag".

 

I want to discuss the comments you made on the agency situation in Tver.  Richard I appreciate your honesty and I am sure that your new agency will be a success.

 

The main income stream for ANY agency comes from letter exchange and translation.

 

As 8 (or even 9) out of 10 guys never make the trip being "fraudulent around the edges" on letter writing makes very good business sense.  There are very few agencies that are honest in this area.  Like I reckon you could count them all on the fingers of your hands!!

 

I want to propose a radical solution. You can avoid all this fraudulent bullshit. 

 

DON'T WRITE TO A WOMAN THROUGH AN AGENCY.

 

A very simple rule - just like not sending money to a woman you have never met.  Following it will make it very hard ( if not impossible) for agencies to rip you off.

 

If you want to engage in long correspondence (maybe you are a WOVO type) then you MUST be writing direct not through an agency and not using a translator.

 

Ask yourself a question - Are you prepared to write intimate letters to a woman in full knowledge that these letters are going to be read and translated by a stranger??  Do you think that any  RW/UW will write intimate replies to you knowing that the "girls in the office" are reading every word??

 

If you answer "yes" to these questions then your Head is so firmly rammed up your Ass that no one can help you!  You are a prime candidate for Anastasiaweb!!

 

Personal letters are one to one.  Either write in English or learn Russian!  From my own experience I know long correspondence before meeting did not work for me.  CONNERVT has described these problems very well quite recently. So I won't repeat the arguments here.  Intimate letter writing for me always happened after we had met and knew we liked each other.  I really did improve my Russian this way.  I would write in English, she would reply in Russian.  Of course there were misunderstandings - get used to it  They will be far more frequent when you start living together!

 

If a woman tells you it is too much trouble to go to an internet café to write to you and would prefer to use an agency/translator.  Put the frog back in the pond immediately!

 

Dating with an interpreter has always been a total failure for me.  Two is company - 3 is a crowd.  How many great dates have you had at home when you are spending the evening with two women??  (Duh Stupid brain - None).  Why should it be any different just because you are in FSU??  What do you do with the interpreter late in the evening back when you get back to  your apartment??

 

Lock her in the bathroom and get her to translate your pillow talk by mobile phone!!

 

Don't use interpreters like minders or constant companions.  If you speak no Russian then only date women that speak reasonable English.  You want to widen your choice.  Learn Russian.

Sure you can hire a proper interpreter for half a day if you need to have a serious conversation with your lady.  Oh I mean a qualified linguist not some young woman who is only just out of college and the agency charges $5 or $6 an hour for….

 

This approach goes back to basics with regard to how you use an Agency.  I reckon full service and matchmaking are a complete waste of money.  You know no one can deliver a wife to your door.  There is no such thing as a Mail Order Bride.  You have to put in the time and effort to find a girlfriend, build a relationship and then a marriage.  If you think you can pay someone to do this for you then you need to check yourself into therapy and be prepared to pay danger money!

 

The primary purpose of agencies is to introduce people.  So that is what you use them for.

 

 

First thing you do is organise a trip.  Book your air tickets.  Now start to make arrangements. 

Sure you can introduce yourself to a woman by writing to her through an agency.  If you inform the agency of your trip dates up front they will know you are one of the 10% who will make the trip.  This makes them less likely to bullshit you.  If you want to meet with a woman get personal contact details ASAP.  Be prepared to pay for this information.  Then have a third party deliver flowers and a personal hand written letter.  You want a photo of her receiving the flowers and a hand written letter in reply.  Simply don't deal with agencies who will not work in this way.

 

Another approach (which can also be used as a back up) is don't write to anyone.  Go to a reputable agency in the city you are visiting and buy a "date pack"  (For newbies this means that you want the agency to organize say 10 dates. You pick the ladies from their catalogue and they set up the meetings.)  This service should cost around $200 - $250. 

 

As long as you have done your own makeover before you travel and have thought very, very carefully about the type of person you are looking for then dating is a numbers game.

 

Well it is midnight now and time for sleep.  Maybe more later…

 

Offline jb

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« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2005, 02:10:30 PM »
Les,

Great post.

Offline tim 360

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« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2005, 05:15:47 PM »
Just a really great post Leslie!  Kudo's!  I have conjectured to myself that the BIG revenue stream for agencies is the keyboard-cowboy-letter-writers.  There must be many.  This is very easy money and all the biz has to deal with is emails and translations.  Much easier than dealing with guys who come and need REAL service.  I have no real idea of just how many emails and translations are paid for....but I suspect the # is rather on the large size.  It is a $ and #'s game with alot of eager lonely guys worldwide.  And not any real reason to involve the "profiled girl" at all.  To "bother" her.  It can all be orchestrated by the agency.  The agency reads and filters everything.  The agency can even write all her letters for her...how nice.

One can easily notice just how "user friendly" the agencies offer their "service" for emails and translations.  It is also how they control the tempo and the revenue.  I think many guys get sucked in to the convenience of the set-up.  Seems legitimate too.  Very user friendly.  It is like internet shopping...whoops... it is internet shopping.  Never realizing they are throwing $5 bills out the window.  1,2,3....21,23.  It is beautiful.  Some guys "correspond" for a year or more and buy flowers, perfume and gee-gaws which---the girl may never know anything of.  Some of these agencies make the regular old internet scammers look very tame.

If anyone thinks this is incorrect?  Heres what you do.  Just post your unremarkable profile with any of these agencies.  And soon "girls" will be writing you.  Finding you to be very interesting.  More interesting than you should believe.  Such flattery!  It is a fantasy. I'm thinkin'...PT Barnum.

 

 
"Never argue with a fool,  onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".  Mark Twain

Offline jb

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pretrip report to ukraine, 2005
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2005, 12:32:17 AM »
tim 360,

Glad to finally have you onboard for this one.

Offline anono

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« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2005, 12:50:31 AM »
hey richard, it's robert, not ron :-)

i do not feel like you were bashing me at all. i listen to people and form my own opinion. i know you are a down to earth guy, i like you. i am sure you will run an honest agency and i plan to contact you agin once i'm home.

les, of course you are, again, spot on. i came to tver on a moments notice, knew i would be here only 3 1/2 days. so i put myself in the hands of the agency because i had not been writing to anyone. also, i do not open the letters supposedly sent to me. i just look at the profiles and if i like any, i just arriange to meee them. i wrote ONE woman (she is in gomel) that was on their site and apparently wrote to me. cost? one credit. so i have not been spending any money writing letters. i did what leslie suggests, went to the agency and picked the ladies. picked ladies who i thought were interested in me because they sent letters. i think it was 5 ladies, three sent letters.

i'm going to try and just spend some time here and meet women on the street or pick the cream of the crop from the agencies.

i have to go, "o" and her driver are picking me up soon. i still like "o" but if she doesn't come around soon, she will be history. she likes me but there is that problem in the persoanl area i cannot go into here. i may have a new appreciation for her someday, i just want to be sure i cannot do any better. she is real close and as one of the other memebers said in a PM, sometimes you have to compromise and take the best avaialable. i am sure i would not be doing bad or even slightly bad with "o", given time. she is an amazing girl and i think we could be happy together. i just want to be sure i cannot find that "perfect" lady. when i say perfect, it is perfect for me. i am no more perfect than anyome else, it's just i want to be perfect for the right lady the same as i want her to be as close to perfect for me.

les, i'll call after the lag...  it'll be good to talk again

ROBERT  (not ron!)  lol

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2005, 03:29:26 AM »
Les - agree with alot of what you posted.  It definitely applies to everything I have seen in Ukraine.  It does not apply to all agencies I have dealt with in Russia.  A really honest full service agency can make correspondence much easier both on the ground and when you leave.  The one that comes to mind is Dayton's www.goldenringbrides.com.   I am not a shill for Marc, but I know the guy is doing his darndest to run an honest agency in Tver and Ivonovo.  A guy has to pay a little more than behappy to use an agency like Marc's but Behappy may or may not have the girl you think they have on their website, chances are, Marc's will.  Of course, Tver has so many great girls a guy could still run into his wife through behappy, but he definitely should not write letters through them.  Chances are he is writing to air.  Unless a guy is just going on a look-see type lark, and there are not many guys doing that these days especially during the summer season with the air prices we have today I recommend a guy pays $200 to $300 more and uses an honest agency if he chooses to use one at all when he goes to Tver. 

I agree 100% that writing was a total waste of time for me prior to meeting a girl.

The sooner a guy is able to wean himself off the agency once he finds a girl the better, but a good full service agency can really smooth through the post meeting hurdles a guy may run into.

 
"A word is dead when it is said, some say.  I say it just begins to live that day."  Emily Dickinson

Offline Rvrwind

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« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2005, 08:13:47 AM »
WOW,talk about a kick in the teeth, Thanks Les.

What point is there in having an agency at all if nobody is going to use it.:shock:

First of all there are not enough guys showing up over here to warrant not charging for letters. Hell there ain't enough that actually show up to pay the monthly bills. Like Tim said- the money is in letter writing & translations, mainly because 95% never show up.

Unfortunatly for most guys they have not got the fortitude or aptitude to learn fluent enough Russian as your estemed self & carry on enough of a conversation. Hell I been here for two years & am surrounded by it & I still can't! Beyond that, women who are comfortable enough with their English do not grow on trees.

You set this up as it is only the guys on these boards that write women & come over here. You fail to realize there are thousands of guys who write letters & maybe a couple of hundred that show up every year that have never even heard of these boards.

An honest agency can be of great value to guys in this quest. We are your lighthouse in a foreign land , we keep you grounded & on track. If an agency has professional & well trained Terps they can be of great value to you in your relationship, not a hindrence as you suggest. Agencies may not be for everybody but for some they are nessessary.

I can't help but think you have a burr up your ass for all agencies but what you fail to realize is that not everybody out there is a self confident & ready to tackle this adventure on their own like you. I also find it rediculous that you should tell the men that if a woman doesn't speak English & you don't speak Russian, move on. Had I done that Iwould not have met my wonderful wife because she didn't know 4 words of English when we met. But we have been married going on two years & couldn't be happier.

I also don't have a problem with selling contact info & it is one of the services we will provide, under certain conditions.

Your entitled to your opinion & why you have a hate on for all agencies is beyond me but please don't preach it like your way is the only way for every guy, because plain & simple it just ain't.

Sorry Robert ,LOL, I'll remember that for future reference, Robert, Not Ron LOL

RVR

Canadian Cowboy
« Last Edit: April 07, 2005, 08:16:00 AM by Rvrwind »
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Offline jb

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« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2005, 09:12:47 AM »
Richard,

I don't think Leslie was trying to kick you in the teeth, I know he's not that kind of guy.

I do believe what Les, myself, and others, are saying is that a man must be armed with enough knowledge and social skills to be able to fend for himself to a greater, not lesser, degree.  I have heard it so many times from Russians that Americans are such a stupid people they deserve to be taken to the cleaners.  

The unaware man steps off the plane and what is he confronted with?  I'll tell you what he first encounters, Taxi cab drivers in the SVO2 reception area asking $100.00 for a ride into Moscow.  They start off with the high price because they've had enough stupid Americans pay it, they feel no guilt in asking.  They only back off when you are able to say firmly, "Nyet, spaciba~!" and push on through.  Then they chase you halfway to the parking lot where your pre-arranged car and driver are waiting for you.  Are they ashamed of having tried to rip off yet another stupid American?  No way, they play the scammer percentage, just like every other Russian you'll run into.  The average Russian you'll meet on the street is of such a "dog eat dog" mindset he'll steal your gold fillings if you don't watch him.  He will also rip off another Russian, given the  chance.

There is a saying in Russian, "Trust, but verify".  IOW, don't trust anybody completely.  You can only trust your own family circle, but nobody else.

Does an agency have a role in this endeavor?  The answer is "yes", you do. You need to be there as the safety net for the terminally stupid until he becomes a member of a Russian family.  After that they will look after him far better than you can.  What are the odds of him making it that far?  Depends on how bad the RW wants to go to the USA.

Offline anono

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« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2005, 10:33:32 AM »
jb, couldn't agree with you more. a lot of these folks think americans are stupid because a lot are. if they are not stupid, they are just plain ignorant. the women here are surprised to learn i have read schevchenko, pushkin, tolstoy, dostyseky, bulgakov, nobakov (sp on at least afew of these, it's late and i ahve a plane to catch) they are surprised i cared to learn anything about russia or ukraine.

i will touch only lightly on politics here (so i don't get banned :-)  but i think these ladies would be surprised that almost all these AM are bush lovers. i tell the ladies there are 50 million americans who voted for bush and then there is the rest of the world. i go into it a little and just explain how hypocritical they are and just love trying to take the high ground and are no better than the democrats. when they see i am not offended by legitimate criticism of the USA and it's international arrogance, they always, to a woman, show another level of being relaxed, smile and understand where i am coming from. it seems everyone but those 50 million see more around them and are not so narrow minded. i tell them i love my country and support our military but question our government and where they send them. they know iraq had zero to do with 9-11 and wonder why bush was re-elected. i tell them, don't blame me. ok, better stop and put on the fire retardant suit.

these people are so used to seeing "ugly americans" they feel no shame ripping us off. they see us expecting everyone to speak english and if they don't, we yell louder. most of these ladies know more about america in many areas than americans do (generally speaking). they certainly know more about america than most americans know about russia.

about ladies and language. one reason i went back to meeting women who do not speak english (for awhile i was trying to limit it to at least some english w/o an interpreter) is my experince with my last ukrainian girlfriend. when we met, we had an interpreter. she had studied english, as most of these ladies do, but had no practice. i saw her in kherson (where we met) the next day with an interpreter. when i invited her to kiev, we used an interpreter the first day. she stayed with me in my flat and i have a translation program on my laptop. we had great fun listening to music and typing back and forth to each other. after about five days, we did not need the laptop. when i went back to the USA, i gave her $$ for english lessons. she took formal lessons and also attended some classes offered free by missionaries. the only thing she had to suffer through was bible study once a week. within three months she was an interpreter at one of jack's parties. when i came back this trip, i looked her up. she said her english was not as good due to lack of practice. she also said she understood me better than others. part of this is she learned listening to me (poor girl) and another thing i attribute this to is i am from the midwest. linguistic types will tell you we are accent neutral.

funny thing happened with my first ukrainian lady who understood english. svetlana and i went to egypt. we meet a brit from manchester. nice guy. we would sit and listen to him and when he got up to go get something, she turned to me and said "i don't understand a word he says" i replied "don't worry, neither did i".

so i try like hell to meet english speaking ladies. many say they do not but when they speak, some speak perfect english. some just are self conscious and have no practice. when i went to be happy, again, i need to remind, i went there on a spur of the moment. i had to meet whoever was available. in moscow, where i am now, every lady i met (i think four) spoke english. if a lady is exceptional lookin in her profile, i'll make that exception to see just what their english level is.

bottomline, i agree with what leslie says when it comes to getting to know a lady who speak no or next to no english. it is going to take awhile to get to know them. but, the right ladyis worth the effort and i think given the money and motivation it will not take long for them to be speaking good english.

i also agree with richard, some of these guys need help. i did first trip and i still do, but i rely less and less on agencies. agencies are a good place to get help fast. i can get around fairly good on my own. i am like richard when it comes to learning russian..i know a few words and phrases but if i need a train ticket, i call someone i know that speaks russian and hand the ticket lady my cell phone. my contact tells them what i need and i am on my way. i can also read some russian. you'd be surprised how amny words are exact or very simialr to english once you understand the cryllic. i'm no dummy, i took some german in high school and even remeber some of it. but i think some people are better at languages than others, like some people are better at math. i ahve to admit to a certain level of laziness too. i should know more russian than i do, but then again, i had an english speaking 1st GF and the second learned quickly

Offline TigerPaws

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« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2005, 10:55:43 AM »
Quote from: Rvrwind
Unfortunatly for most guys they have not got the fortitude or aptitude to learn fluent enough Russian as your estemed self & carry on enough of a conversation. Hell I been here for two years & am surrounded by it & I still can't! Beyond that, women who are comfortable enough with their English do not grow on trees.

I also find it rediculous that you should tell the men that if a woman doesn't speak English & you don't speak Russian, move on. Had I done that I would not have met my wonderful wife because she didn't know 4 words of English when we met. But we have been married going on two years & couldn't be happier.

Canadian Cowboy

 Maybe this is a topic for another thread but I strongly agree with the Canadian about the language issue, I have heard time and time again on various discussion boards that men should only seek our girls who speak fair to good English. During my search I came across only 2 girls who spoke good English out of 32 meetings and neither one was what I was looking for.

 Without a doubt the vast majority of girls do not speak much if any English at all, like the Canadian my wife spoke just a few words yet with my ever handy dictionary and a lot of patience on both of our parts we managed to communicate effectively. When I counsel someone about looking for a lady from the FSU I tell them to look for the ladies with little or no English skills, that all too often girls who speak good to fluent English are to be treated with extreme caution.

 Let me relate a true story to you about a man I know who found, courted and married a Russian lady who did not speak a word of English when he first met her. Tom was your average working stiff, 40 years old with a good job, divorced, no kids but thinking that maybe it was time to settle down with a good woman and enjoy life, unfortunately like so many other American men all he could find here was divorced psycho nut cases I their mid to late thirties who already had kids and were looking for as you said a sugar daddy. I helped Tom begin his search and after about 5 months he was ready to head on over the Russia and begin meeting with some girls he had been corresponding with, they ranged in age from 24 to 32 years old all without children and to Tom's eye very, no extremely attractive. A few of the girls spoke some English but most did not know a word of English, still Tom headed out with nothing more than his pocket English/Russian dictionary and a can-do attitude. Of the 8 girls Tom met over a three week period one girl hit him as being exactly what he was looking for, Julia was 26. tall, thin, a natural blonde, well educated and a stone knock-out, she also did not speak a word of English. Tom spent 6 days with Julia visiting her family and being introduced to her friends before having to return to California but he promised he write her as soon as he got back and that he would return as soon as possible, over the next 3 months they stayed in close contact through letters and 3-way translated telephone calls, Julia began on her own to learn at least some English and Tom tried to learn some Russian. Tom returned to Russia in order to spend another 2 weeks with Julia in which he planned to ask her to marry him towards the end of his trip if things proceeded along as he hoped they would. Julia was exactly as she had presented herself to be and Tom asked her to marry him, she accepted and he began the K1 visa process, now remember Julia for the most part did not speak any English and Tom's Russian consisted of about 10 words. Tom returned to Russia one last time in order to escort Julia to her new home, now is when the rubber met the road two people living together who could barely communicate, Tom hit upon a simple but brilliant idea, he purchased a note book and would write down what he was trying to tell Julia and together they do the would translation. Over time Julia's English improved to the point where they no longer needed the note book but something very special happened along the way to her learning English, because they had to work so closely together just to communicate the developed a bond which few couples enjoy, that was 3 years ago and they are still very happy together.

 Now do not get me wrong this approach is not for everyone, it takes a lot of time, energy, work and patience but if you have the drive and the ability then you will receive far more than you put into the effort.

 

Offline anono

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« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2005, 11:07:51 AM »
great story tiger.. i like the bonding the note translation nurtured. it was a similar thing with the lady i wrote about sitting in our flat with my laptop. i forgot to add, we would usually get a bottle of martini bianco and drink slowly through the night while having what amounted to great conversations on the laptop. she also taught me some russian, how to toast in russian and other useful phrases. it also helped us to bond (either that or it was the martini...)

we also played CD's on my laptop. i bought a pair of small speakers that hooked up to the laptop and made the music much better. i brought a variety of music. i am into music and have a large collection of CD's. at home i have a bang and olufsen hooked up to a pair of klipschorns. i can literally rock the casba. had them for 30 years. when i was young, the cops used to visit to tell me the neighbors were complaining. what? they don't like my music? i was in the habit of buying quality that'll last a lifetime. did it with a lot of material things, never found a woman with high enough quality...lol

Offline anono

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« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2005, 11:09:56 AM »
i might add, it added to my high frequency hearing loss. that and the motorcycles, guns and 2000 skydives....lol

what did you say?

Offline jb

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« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2005, 11:49:16 AM »
anono,

Hearing loss???  What's that you say????

Mine is a pair of Warfedale E-90's I purchased in England back in 1978, and sound as good today as they did the day I brought them home.  I've gone through a few amps, they don't seem to last, but the Warfies will still produce 94 db's of sound pressure with 1 watt at 1 meter with zero distortion, 20-18khz.  And they will happily take 100 watts of power without cooking a fuse.  Yes, you are right, quality never goes out of style.

Although the hearing loss is mostly due to many hours of sitting between two unmuffled Pratt & Whitney R-2800s, I still love to crank up the Hi-Fi system from time to time.

Ever hear of a group called Little Feat?  Especially playing "Dixie Chicken"?  I'm more now in tune with the "Old Folks Boogie", 'cause I'm a lot like the "Fat Man In The Bathtub".:):)

« Last Edit: April 07, 2005, 11:50:00 AM by jb »

Offline tim 360

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« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2005, 12:08:27 PM »
Note:  A new reader of this board might think that I was lumping ALL agencies together and....to some it may appear I did.  And I did.  The brush was too broad.  Most of the guys on here with some experience,  I am sure knew of the culprits and what I meant. 

A good agency with good support and ethical biz principles can be worth much more than they cost...especially for someone new to this and/or can't speak Russian and needs a little help in a different cultural setting.  Like you are in a jam and you need help?  Like Anno,  with alot of trips under his belt,  still has Jack Bragg's #,  just in case.
"Never argue with a fool,  onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".  Mark Twain

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #73 on: April 07, 2005, 02:09:11 PM »
Richard, 

It is late tonight and I don't have time to write a proper reply now but I do want to make one thing clear.  I am not criticizing your agency or any other honest agency.  You know I have never posted anything very critical about LTP.  I thought Ron Woody gave really good advice - amongst the best I have ever read.

IMHO a relationship is based on good communication.  It takes time and a lot of effort to build a relationship with a woman from another culture. 

No one can do this for you.  You and your partner have got to put the time and effort into this. 

Sure good people can help up to a point. Using a reliable agency for travel arrangements etc. is a must if you don't know your way around but the idea that any agency can find you a wife and you will live happily ever after with minimal effort on your part IS A FANTASY. 

Unfortunately this myth is so successfully peddled by the agencies that some guys actually believe it!!  For example both LTP and Kherson Girls have had a steady stream of guys posting defamatory threads on the discussion boards claiming to have been scammed by a woman and cheated by the agency.  In my opinion Richard I have never read a single report where I believe the agency cheated the guy. 

The problem was these guys believed the MOB myth. 

They actually believed they could go on vacation, pick out a bride, file for immigration, meet an almost perfect stranger at the airport 3-4 months later who would turn out to be the stepford wife of their dreams.

A lot of these guys were real sickos.  I am not surprised Ron/Marc told them where to go but did they ever turn down their $$$.  Think not!

Do a couple have to share a common language to build a successful marriage.  NO but it is a lot easier if they do.  I reckon that is why such a high % of interpretors get married to their clients (Hey you know even Ron married his interpretor!)  Maybe it's because it is so much easier to relate to someone you can talk to???

Well I must close for tonight.  This is a great discussion.  I will try to post tomorrow.

Les

 

 

Offline tim 360

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« Reply #74 on: April 07, 2005, 05:00:39 PM »
One is,  no doubt,  on his own.  But,  one can make prudent and careful arrangements and attempt to educate oneself prior to travel is a good direction.  Expecting someone else to do everything for you is not a good idea.  Ultimately,  in life...one is on his own.  The people who read this board are but a tiny segment of the market.  And,  it is a market with a product.  Namely...RW brides...ladies....girls...which attract a plethora of characters.  Some sincere and some????  A fella named LP could describe them better than I.  Pervs,  comes to mind.  Some thouroughly screwed up guys too prowling around.

That said.  No doubt,  this is indeed a curious pursuit.  I don't think most guys have the trip time to devote to this,  as Anno does and that does place them at a distinct dis-advantage.  It is akin to "speed-dating-on-steroids". 

Pervs and misfits aside.   It is far removed from a normal dating/marriage process in this country or...any country I know of.  There is precious little time and for some...there is great pressure.  In a more "normal" courtship a couple would spend months of time together before jumping into a marriage.  And I mean 6-12-24-36 months before both feel secure enough in each other and themselves to contemplate marriage.  In this RW process,  it is not so.  It moves at such at such an accelerated pace that one must catch their breath.  To spend just 7 or 15 days with someone and then to be thinking "marriage" is.....maybe like premature.  It is certainly a very strange process and I am not making any judgement---but it is mighty strange. 

Imagine,  dating a girl from any where else in the world,  like from England, France or Germany,  and after 7 or 8 days or nights together...."let's get married"???  They would think you were nuts.

I am not knocking it.  But,  it is a strange phenomena in the "human coupling process".  It is almost like an act of faith.  I dunno?  I guess ya roll the dice and take yer chances?  Good luck Anno,  I'm in your corner.  Tim
"Never argue with a fool,  onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".  Mark Twain

 

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