Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[Darth_Budda]

They force you to have auto insurance because you CHOOSE to drive an auto mobile, which is a privilege and you have a choice to do  it or not.

you must live in a urban area,,,

their is no public transportation..

[BC]

their is no public transportation..

Very few crosswalks either...walking a mile for a Camel is one thing... walking forever for a crosswalk another.

Believe me... I've tried.

[Darth_Budda]

Saying driving is a choice in the rural parts of the country is a joke,,,,

Plain and simple....


One thing is for sure if we can hold onto a universal health care system for a few more years,, It's gonna be hard to take it away,, That is why i support Obama-care.

I hope it evolves into a single payer health care system. Paid for by taxes.. Kick the insurance companies to the curb...

This freedom line is just plain bull... Freedom for who?
Those with enough money to get the health care they need??
If we had better mental health care in america It would benefit everyone..

Living in a society is a choice. A choice that requires you to pay taxes..

This fascist Neo-con/Libertarian crap is bullshit...

[GQBlues]

Saying driving is a choice in the rural parts of the country is a joke,,,,

No, it isn't.


Just as choosing to live in a rural part of the country isn't a joke either. It's also a choice.


'That' is plain and simple.

[Darth_Budda]

No, it isn't.


Just as choosing to live in a rural part of the country isn't a joke either. It's also a choice.


'That' is plain and simple.

So now your saying i got to choose my parents and were i was born?

lol,,, get real...

next your gonna say i got to choose the color of my skin?


it's a choice to be greedy...
it's a choice to only care about ones self...

if things continue you won't have a choice when the working class rises up, and takes back what is rightfully theirs.

[GQBlues]

So now your saying i got to choose my parents and were i was born?

Sensible folks who didn't have a choice in parents and where they lived normally leave home when they reach proper age. Miserable folks don't and they just blame the system. Life apparently is easier for them that way. 

lol,,, get real...

next your gonna say i got to choose the color of my skin?

Sure why not. Michael Jackson did.
 

it's a choice to be greedy...
it's a choice to only care about ones self...

if things continue you won't have a choice when the working class rises up, and takes back what is rightfully theirs.

Yeppers. The magical, operative word is 'working'.    Folks who weren't afraid to 'work' and didn't milk the system had healthcare provided for them by their employer. Hence, they had no need for free healthcare and all the other entitlements with different politically-correct titling.

[Faux Pas]

A quick lesson:  There are two stark differences in your auto insurance from Obamacare:

1,  You have the choice to not own a car.

2.  States' rights - political rights reserved for state governments vs. the Federal government.  Federal law is binding on states only if enacted  in accord with constitutionally granted powers.  Any law that exceeds such powers is voidable.   This is so basic to the American way.
 
We all agree that healthcare needs major overhaul.  If  3  years ago Obama had endeavored to work with the democratically Republican members of Congress, this would not be an issue today, and our country would have in place a better system.  With a majority in Congress, Obama had the authority and power to ignore the Republicans and that is what he did.  Not one Republican voted for the Bill.  Not one.   
 
A real leader would have used his influence.   If you examine history of leadership, the best leaders rely far more on influence than power and authority.  For examples, consider the recent toppling of government leaders in the Middle East.  Many people voted for Obama because of the perception that he would be a leader for all of us.  Surprise!

It should be noted, that is an excellent post

[Darth_Budda]

Sensible folks who didn't have a choice in parents and where they lived normally leave home when they reach proper age. Miserable folks don't and they just blame the system. Life apparently is easier for them that way. 
 
Sure why not. Michael Jackson did.
 
Yeppers. The magical, operative word is 'working'.    Folks who weren't afraid to 'work' and didn't milk the system had healthcare provided for them by their employer. Hence, they had no need for free healthcare and all the other entitlements with different politically-correct titling.

You really have no clue about life,,

Sad and very pathetic,,,,

http://www.better.tv/view/hot-topics2-hot-topics-hot-topics--are-rich-people-more-likely-to-steel-candy-from-kids-than-poor-people-

Enjoy your candy,,,,,

EDIT:
I always love to find out what some people call hard work?

[calmissile]

Darth,

Your posts are the perfect example of why you can never argue with a liberal and come to any logical conclusion!
If there was some way to corral you into a sphere where you could live without wanting to take the fruits of someone else's labor, I would be very happy to let you live your Utopian dream.  Just keep your hands out of someone else's pockets!!

[GQBlues]

You really have no clue about life,,

Sad and very pathetic,,,,

In some intances, you're right.
 
For example, I don't know what food stamps look like. I don't even know, nor interested to know, how to get on that program. I don't know what free healthcare is either. I've always paid my bills and dues. Worked for everything I have and belongs to ME.
 
I was offerred University assistance under that stupid Affirmative Action program ( I chose to call it that), and FWIW, I told them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
 
I am not a social leech....If I am to be treated and judged equally despite the color of my skin, then by golly do so properly instead of lowering my grade acceptance, giving me money to pay for my tuition, and lowering my grading curve during school. Just like they do everyone else. So instead, I CHOSE to work 3 jobs all through University.
 
I know you won't understand the logic to any of this, but hey, now you have a clue.

[Darth_Budda]

Darth,

Your posts are the perfect example of why you can never argue with a liberal and come to any logical conclusion!
If there was some way to corral you into a sphere where you could live without wanting to take the fruits of someone else's labor, I would be very happy to let you live your Utopian dream.  Just keep your hands out of someone else's pockets!!

Keep my hands out of Someone's else's pocket??

The working class has been raped by people like you for the last 30 years!!

You baby boomers have been spending the money of future generations!!
Paying for it all with loans from China.. LoL

Take your own advice...

I am not a Liberal, I am a Socialist...

Some time's I hope that America will come around when they realize the pain and death they cause by their libertarian Neo-con ideas that have consolidated the wealth of this world in the hands of the few with the Capital that is generated by the Labor of the majority.

But when i talk to people like you guys I realize that their is only one way to end this system and it's not by the vote. If things do not change the American people will wake up one day and the privileged class that steals the capital of the working class will suffer...

It's only Class war when the working class fights back,, Look to history and you see what happens to the privileged Class when they go to far. You will see that it does not work out too good for them...

[Darth_Budda]

In some intances, you're right.
 
For example, I don't know what food stamps look like. I don't even know, nor interested to know, how to get on that program. I don't know what free healthcare is either. I've always paid my bills and dues. Worked for everything I have and belongs to ME.
 
I was offerred University assistance under that stupid Affirmative Action program ( I chose to call it that), and FWIW, I told them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
 
I am not a social leech....If I am to be treated and judged equally despite the color of my skin, then by golly do so properly instead of lowering my grade acceptance, giving me money to pay for my tuition, and lowering my grading curve during school. Just like they do everyone else. So instead, I CHOSE to work 3 jobs all through University.
 
I know you won't understand the logic to any of this, but hey, now you have a clue.

Good for you,,,

Now understand not every one is as smart as you.
But they have just as much right to this world as you do.

You should also remember that it was progressive thinking that ended slavery based on skin color.

We must now end slavery based on debt and privilege...

Many people died and bleed for you to have the right not to call some one master. You more than others should remember history... 

Lets see how your fellow less privileged people from your ethnic group are doing?
 
http://cpusa.org/from-anti-slavery-to-the-anti-monopoly-strategy/

The crisis of poverty and unemployment Black Americans now face is, save for the almost total genocidal elimination of American Indians, without precedent for any segment of this country's population.

"The unemployment rate among Black workers in the ghetto now exceeds the general rate of unemployment of the entire nation during the depression of the 1930's," reported Herbert Hill, NAACP Labor Secretary, at the organization's 1971 National Convention.

"The rate of unemployment of Black workers in 25 major centers of urban non-white population concentration is now between 25 per cent and 40 per cent," stated Hill, "and the unemployment rate for Black youth will be in excess of 50 per cent by the middle of this summer. In 1933, the national unemployment rate was 24.9 per cent, the highest officially recorded unemployment in the history of the United States." Hill also pointed out that tens of thousands of Black workers are classified as employed but never have an income that could lift them above the poverty level.

[pitbull]

Darth,

Your posts are the perfect example of why you can never argue with a liberal and come to any logical conclusion!
If there was some way to corral you into a sphere where you could live without wanting to take the fruits of someone else's labor, I would be very happy to let you live your Utopian dream.  Just keep your hands out of someone else's pockets!!

Hmmm... well, since you are so against taking the fruits of someone else's labor, you will surely support cuts to Medicare down to bare minumum, right? Saved enough to provide your own healthcare for those golden years (especially those luxury things like latest cancer treatments and knee replacements)? After all, Medicare is the largest unfunded entitlement threatening to bancrupt the country.

[calmissile]

Darth,

So you don't want to be characterized as a liberal but are proud to be a socialist!  OK, my apology.  It's kind of hard to draw the distinction between the two of late.

It's also somewhat embarrassing to be an American with Socialists among us touting a line of BS that is contrary to what the country was founded on and tried to preserve.  I suppose it must have something to do with your age and/or college professors that instilled these ideas in your head.

You have a lot of balls to suggest that I personally am responsible for the matters you complain about.  Yes, I am a baby boomer.  I have worked since age 12 and often at two jobs, put myself through school and earned everything I have.  I am also angry about corporate welfare, just like I am about social welfare.  You have chosen to hold blame the whole baby boomer generation when many of us supported neither welfare programs.  For the elite that raped the working class, you are correct just like the liberals that raped the working class with social welfare programs.  Don't blame a whole class of citizens for the ones that actually caused the damage (Congress).

You think socialism is the answer?  Why not take the Soviet Union as your example and show us how wonderful it worked there.  Consider that rural Russia and Ukraine was mostly folks working their fingers to the bone on their collective farms just to survive and of course the government took part of the crops to feed the rest of the country.  No indoor toilets, no indoor showers, no spending money, no cars, no fancy clothes, few computers at homes, etc. etc.

During this same period of time, compare it with the average American family!
 
You are the one without a clue!

There are several FSUW posters on this forum that will fill you in on current life in rural UA and RU.  Perhaps they will clear your mind a little about socialism. Even without the corruption factor, it is not a pretty scene to live under socialism.  The incentive to work harder and climb the economic ladder is not like in the US or other capitalistic countries.  Sure, when the balance of power between labor and business gets lobsided then it leads to serious problems for the society.  The solution is to fix the unbalance, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater!

[Darth_Budda]

Darth,

So you don't want to be characterized as a liberal but are proud to be a socialist!  OK, my apology.  It's kind of hard to draw the distinction between the two of late.

It's also somewhat embarrassing to be an American with Socialists among us touting a line of BS that is contrary to what the country was founded on and tried to preserve.  I suppose it must have something to do with your age and/or college professors that instilled these ideas in your head.

You have a lot of balls to suggest that I personally am responsible for the matters you complain about.  Yes, I am a baby boomer.  I have worked since age 12 and often at two jobs, put myself through school and earned everything I have.  I am also angry about corporate welfare, just like I am about social welfare.  You have chosen to hold blame the whole baby boomer generation when many of us supported neither welfare programs.  For the elite that raped the working class, you are correct just like the liberals that raped the working class with social welfare programs.  Don't blame a whole class of citizens for the ones that actually caused the damage (Congress).

You think socialism is the answer?  Why not take the Soviet Union as your example and show us how wonderful it worked there.  Consider that rural Russia and Ukraine was mostly folks working their fingers to the bone on their collective farms just to survive and of course the government took part of the crops to feed the rest of the country.  No indoor toilets, no indoor showers, no spending money, no cars, no fancy clothes, few computers at homes, etc. etc.

During this same period of time, compare it with the average American family!
 
You are the one without a clue!

There are several FSUW posters on this forum that will fill you in on current life in rural UA and RU.  Perhaps they will clear your mind a little about socialism. Even without the corruption factor, it is not a pretty scene to live under socialism.  The incentive to work harder and climb the economic ladder is not like in the US or other capitalistic countries.  Sure, when the balance of power between labor and business gets lobsided then it leads to serious problems for the society.  The solution is to fix the unbalance, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater!

That was State Capitalism,,,,

Not true democratic Socialism or democratic Communism...
 


You can't judge Socialism by what happened in the FSU...

Just like you can't blame Slavery on capitalism..


I have never been to collage,,,

I have worked with my hands and my mind for a family business since I was 12....
I have always produced a real goods with my labor. Goods that can be held in one's hands.
But just because I am smart and work hard does not mean I am blind to the truth, that our society
is wrong... You would rather see people starve and die than give up a little capital. Capital that they owe to the society they have prospered in. 

My ideas are my own, I have come to them based on truth.
In all reality I have read very little of  Marx or Engels works or the bible for that matter.
But i get the jest, When your neighbor does good, so do you.

True happiness is not these shinny things they sell us... It community

Will I suffer financially because of my beliefs? Yes...

That i will gladly do, but only if we all suffer together as one people...
Their is only one earth... That is all we got.

[calmissile]

Darth,
Read the quotes below from a FSUW coming to the US and tell us what socialist country she would have had the same success.....

"I am this woman, so to speak. Those who remember me from 5-7 years ago might tell you that this was exactly what I used to say -" I will never work. I have not worked most of my life in Russia and I am not about to start in US at age 35. My child will go to college. And, not just your regular university of south east Alabama, it would be Harvard, no less. "  I told it all to my husband upfront. Before coming here. I believe that marriage should be a transparent deal. No "hidden skeletons". He agreed.  An old hand here told me back then that life would change my priorities and it did. I hadnt worked for 5+ years out of ten here, but when my son went to college I felt out of place and decided to work. It was MY decision. I quickly realized how easy this place is to advance professionally. I have been working ever since.  By choice. As for my child's college - this priority has not changed. What has changed is my attitude to it.  I could apply pressure to my husband to pay for his education, but I rather decided to apply pressure to my child to study hard and get  a 100% merit scholarship.  It  was not that hard to do by russian school standards.  The University was a regular state school, which was a temporary compromise. He is now accepted to a ivy league law school also with a 100% merit scholarship. My husband does not mind helping with other school related expenses, but I do not even need him to contribute too much - I can now do it all myself.

[Darth_Budda]

Sweden, Norway or Denmark...

But we should remember The good old USA is a rather Socialist country,,,

Socialized Education K-12
Socialized Roads
Socialized medicare
Socialized Social Security
Socialized Research, paid for by public monies at universities...
Socialized Religion,, They don't pay taxes like they should...
Socialized Corporate Welfare, for the privileged few
Socialized Power authorities, that powered our last economic boom
Socialized Imperialism, That keeps prices artificially low

Should I go on?

Many of these programs have been corrupted to fuel the privileged class.

I have talked to many from the FSU who would disagree, They see this system for what it is...
 

[GQBlues]

...
You should also remember that it was progressive thinking that ended slavery based on skin color.

We must now end slavery based on debt and privilege...

Many people died and bleed for you to have the right not to call some one master. You more than others should remember history... 

Lets see how your fellow less privileged people from your ethnic group are doing?
 
http://cpusa.org/from-anti-slavery-to-the-anti-monopoly-strategy/

The crisis of poverty and unemployment Black Americans now face is, save for the almost total genocidal elimination of American Indians, without precedent for any segment of this country's population.

"The unemployment rate among Black workers in the ghetto now exceeds the general rate of unemployment of the entire nation during the depression of the 1930's," reported Herbert Hill, NAACP Labor Secretary, at the organization's 1971 National Convention.

"The rate of unemployment of Black workers in 25 major centers of urban non-white population concentration is now between 25 per cent and 40 per cent," stated Hill, "and the unemployment rate for Black youth will be in excess of 50 per cent by the middle of this summer. In 1933, the national unemployment rate was 24.9 per cent, the highest officially recorded unemployment in the history of the United States." Hill also pointed out that tens of thousands of Black workers are classified as employed but never have an income that could lift them above the poverty level.

Huh?!? WTF?
 
Curious. What does slavery and black workers and the unemployed have anything to do with me? Why do you seem to think I'm black and/or my enthnicity is African? Was it because I mentioned my skin color?
 
You keep harping all for one and one for all but immediately assume the world you live in is solely black and white.
 
One of the chief problem in our society these days are folks locked in a dance called 'race'. Folks coming from around our country today from different parts of the globe, regardless of the color of their skin, and many who doesn't even have English as their first language, are not only able to find opportunities here but many find success.
 
You have to ask yourself the question then, what on earth are the excuses of those who were born here?
 
It isn't the system Darth. It's the people who rely on the system for their own personal state and welfare.

[Gator]

Darth,
 
If you are a true socialist, I assume you have trouble sleeping at night thinking of the billions of human souls in our global community whose lifestyle is inferior to yours.  Yes, even your life as an underemployed 27-yo is far superior, making you a member of the world's priviledged class.  When do you depart for Africa to serve your socialistic mission? 

[calmissile]

Darth,

Sweden, Norway or Denmark...  We should hear from them.  I would not purport to have first hand knowledge.  The one gal from Norway I talked to during an airport layover, would much rather be in the USA or UK.

But we should remember The god old USA is a rather Socialist country,,,  YES AND WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO REMOVE THEM!

Socialized Education K-12    Agree, but not everyone supports this notion considering the quality of the students that come out of it!

Socialized Roads   Agree as it is part of the infrastructure necessary for commerce and transportation of our citizens.

Socialized medicare              Agree it should not have been necessary.

Socialized Social Security     Disagree.. It was set up to be a savings plan for supplemental retirement.  Congress stole the money.

Socialized Research, paid for by public monies at universities... True but not necessarily a bad thing within limits.  They do a lot of good research.

Socialized Religion,, They don't pay taxes like they should...   Not going to touch this one.  It has always been this way.  So what?

Socialized Corporate Welfare, for the privileged few     Agree and we should prosecute all of the bastards!

Socialized Power authorities, that powered our last economic boom  If you mean the energy utilites, I agree wtih you.

Socialized Imperialism, That keeps prices artificially low     WTF is this?

[calmissile]

Darth,

Please tell us you are not for real and this is just part of some wacky professor's project.

[Darth_Budda]

Darth,
 
If you are a true socialist, I assume you have trouble sleeping at night thinking of the billions of human souls in our global community whose lifestyle is inferior to yours.  Yes, even your life as an underemployed 27-yo is far superior, making you a member of the world's priviledged class.  When do you depart for Africa to serve your socialistic mission?

Why would you think I am underemployed? We rather busy this time of year...
In fact every year more and more of our competition goes out of business,
We also pay higher wages than any other company in our line of work.

But what about the people who are not as smart, skilled or cut throat...
Do they not deserve a fair chance at life? Not every one way born to be in a highly skilled profession... 

Privilege class I might be, But that does not mean I can not see the truth...
Nor does it stop me from working for a better world to raise my Daughter in.

[Darth_Budda]

Darth,

Please tell us you are not for real and this is just part of some wacky professor's project.

I have never been to collage,,, I did not want to be a slave to debt...
I was also privileged to have a family company to work for.. Which I started to work for when I was 12 every summer until i graduated HS.

Although my HS teachers wanted me to be a lawyer.. One day I may decide to study this at home.


American Imperialism,,,

Paid for by the blood of the poor city and country boys.

We have bases all over the world to protect capital interests of the most privileged among us.

Good example:
We are opening a base in Australia....

Why??? When we are already in debt.... Money would be much better spent on space, health care or Balancing the budget.

I do think the American people are starting to wake up,, I bet one year ago many of your answers would of been different.

[calmissile]

Darth,
In response to your comments....................

I have never been to collage,,, I did not want to be a slave to debt...
I was also privileged to have a family company to work for.. Which I started to work for when I was 12 every summer until i graduated HS.

Although my HS teachers wanted me to be a lawyer.. One day I may decide to study this at home.
This is good.  This is what we need..... more lawyers.   

American Imperialism,,,

Paid for by the blood of the poor city and country boys.
Seems to me it was not ony poor city and country boys...... how about congressmen, senators, and past presidents?

We have bases all over the world to protect capital interests of the most privileged among us.

Yes including your freedom to become a Socialist if you choose!

Good example:
We are opening a base in Australia....

Once again you are mistaken.  We are not opening a base in Australia.  We are rotating some Marines through Austrailian bases at their request.  Apparently one of our allies finds it a mutual benefical interst to do so.

See this link!     http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/us-marines-not-a-us-base-on-australian-soil-smith-20120404-1wbnl.html

You seem to have a very negative view on the necessity of a military.  Perhaps you should do some reading or even watch the History Channel on TV.  You might learn a lot.
If it were not for the military strength of the allies in WWII, much of Europe (including Russia) would be speaking German now, and the US would be speaking Japanese!

When I was a young man I made the argument with my father about not needing soldiers anymore.  We can simply push a button and the missile will do all the work.  He educated me by explaining that you can drop all the bombs you want, but if you cannot occupy your enemies homeland (with soldiers) you cannot control their behavior.

You can also argue that we do not need a strong military now because no one is invading the US (except illegals).  What you fail to realize is that the time it takes to ramp up and build weapons is lengthy and in all probablility will be too late.  Had it not been for the industrial manufacturing capability of the US, the war in Europe might have turned out much differently!

Another factor for you to consider is the technology of the weapons.  If you wait until the need is there, your existing technology of weapons will be obsolete.  That is why we are continually in the R&D phase of developing newer weapons.  We don't want to get caught with our pants down like we and British were in WWII.  I have personally worked on many weapons programs that were funded only through the development and demonstration phase and then cancelled because there was not a current threat to justify the cost of going into production of them.  Nevertheless, all the R&D was done and all the tech data went into the archives in case it was needed later.

I don't expect you to grasp all this at once, but spending some time in learning history might pay off for you.

Why??? When we are already in debt.... Money would be much better spent on space, health care or Balancing the budget.

Actually, if we had meaningful Tort Reform health care costs would drop dramatically.  Since it's not legal to shoot all the lawyers, Tort Reform is the only solution.



I do think the American people are starting to wake up,, I bet one year ago many of your answers would of been different.

Your mistaken again.  My answers would not have changed for at least the past 50 years.

[BC]

I recall multiple bills. Even today some new attempts are being floated.

Gator,

stumbled across this 2009 article:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5093897-503544.html

seems a bit half hearted.

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_Americans_Act

It would establish Healthy Americans Private Insurance Plans (HAPIs) and require those who do not already have health insurance coverage, and who do not oppose health insurance on religious grounds, to enroll themselves and their children in a HAPI.

Hard to tell what religious grounds are, but seems more complete, including penalties for not enrolling.

http://americancentristparty.net/PDF/KER07016_xml%20Text%20of%20Act.pdf  page 12

Do love that acronym though... HAPI.... lol