Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[Gator]

Actually, the majority of my friends don't just write a check to those "poor bastards" but they roll their sleeves and do the real work.

I am glad to know that you are not friends with Biden, Kerry and Gore.  Your friends are good people, yet the stark contrast between liberal and conswervatives regarding charity is still true.

[SANDRO43]

...with 4 more years of Obama, I see serious struggles between the perceived "rich" folks in the GoodOl' USA and the "poor" folks.

Troubling echoes of a remote past ?

(1790)
Ah! ça ira, ça ira, ça ira!
Les aristocrates à la lanterne!
Ah! ça ira, ça ira, ça ira!   
Les aristocrates on les pendra!   
Si on n’ les pend pas,
On les rompra.   
Si on n’ les rompt pas,   
On les brûlera.

Ah! It'll be fine, It'll be fine, It'll be fine!
The aristocrats to the lamp-post.
Ah! It'll be fine, It'll be fine, It'll be fine!
The aristocrats, we'll hang them!
If we don't hang them,
We'll break them.
If we don't break them,
We'll burn them.

[Eduard]

Oh yes! Edith Piaf, very popular in the USSR of my youth

[Eduard]

Well gentlemen, now they are going to print $40 billion a month... We are cooked.

[Shadow]

Well gentlemen, now they are going to print $40 billion a month... We are cooked.

Now if only they would allow competition in this we would all be in a lot better position. 

[BC]

The fed is actually buying mortgages, pumping more liquidity into the markets.

The tools they have are few..  with interest rates near zero, one tool is used up.  Adding / reducing liquidity is pretty much all they have left.

[Turboguy]

Thats not true.  They have lots of tools left.  They just need to wait until after the election to use them since they might not get reelected if they used them now.

[BC]

Thats not true.  They have lots of tools left.  They just need to wait until after the election to use them since they might not get reelected if they used them now.

I do like to learn..  aside from controlling liquidity and interest rates what other tools does the fed have?

[Gator]

Now if only they would allow competition in this we would all be in a lot better position. 

Europe has similar programs and discussing more.  Japan too.  And China is talking stimulus.   
 
Europe is also addressing its fiscal matters.  The US is not. 
 
 
 
 

[Eduard]

Europe has similar programs and discussing more.  Japan too.  And China is talking stimulus.   
 
Europe is also addressing its fiscal matters.  The US is not.

and that I see as a little problem 

[ML]

Thats not true.  They have lots of tools left.  They just need to wait until after the election to use them since they might not get reelected if they used them now.

BC was talking about the tools the FED (as in Federal Reserve Board) has.

Who do you think reelects these folks?

[Eduard]

BC was talking about the tools the FED (as in Federal Reserve Board) has.

Who do you think reelects these folks?

are you saying that we are just like Russia?

[Gator]

I do like to learn..  aside from controlling liquidity and interest rates what other tools does the fed have?

Within the categories of liquidity and interest rates, there are many options.  I do not believe they will be needed because QE3 can continue indefinitely. 
 
QE3 was designed to not only boost the home building industry but would have the secondary effect of boosting home prices.  This would encourage homeowners to spend more, which would compel business to invest and hire.

Recently a large hedge fund has announced plans to spend $3billion buying homes in the Tampa area for the rental market.   Banks foreclosed on many homes, evicting the owners.  The evicted owner could not buy a home and must rent, so demand for rental properties is up.
 
Clearly the economy is frail to compel the Fed to undertake QE∞   (infinity).   This week the second quarter GDP growth was revised downward from 1.7% to 1.3%.   And idiotic people will vote for Obama because Romney is wealthy and paid only a 14% tax rate.
 

[Shadow]

Europe has similar programs and discussing more.  Japan too.  And China is talking stimulus.   
 
Europe is also addressing its fiscal matters.  The US is not.

I was not meaning on a country level but more on a personal level...

[BC]

Within the categories of liquidity and interest rates, there are many options.  I do not believe they will be needed because QE3 can continue indefinitely. 
 
QE3 was designed to not only boost the home building industry but would have the secondary effect of boosting home prices.  This would encourage homeowners to spend more, which would compel business to invest and hire.

Recently a large hedge fund has announced plans to spend $3billion buying homes in the Tampa area for the rental market.   Banks foreclosed on many homes, evicting the owners.  The evicted owner could not buy a home and must rent, so demand for rental properties is up.
 
Clearly the economy is frail to compel the Fed to undertake QE∞   (infinity).   This week the second quarter GDP growth was revised downward from 1.7% to 1.3%.   And idiotic people will vote for Obama because Romney is wealthy and paid only a 14% tax rate.

Everyone, including the Fed seems quite puzzled about a large liquidity surplus and little movement on main street.  It's really a no brainer.  As corporations downsized during the crisis, they found they could keep going quite well without a fat personnel belt-line.  Folks on main street are paying off their loans and not using credit, also realizing that 'back to basics' and living within their means is quite ok.

It's simply a new environment that will take some getting used to.  The days of 5%+ growth will not be back.  The drop from 1.7 to 1.3 seems to be largely due to a 13% drop in durable goods orders - mostly attributed to lower / cancelled orders for big ticket items like commercial aircraft.

Goal should be 2-3% and that will be difficult for anyone in the Oval Office to meet over the next decade.

[Gator]

Goal should be 2-3% and that will be difficult for anyone in the Oval Office to meet over the next decade.

There you go again, giving up.  I understand your sentiment if you believe Obama will win.      
If we can not reach 4-5% growth, we are in serious fiscal trouble as entitlement expenditures are already almost equal to all tax revenue, and increasing at a rate faster than 2-3%.
 
2012 Budget 
 
Outlays
      Appropriated (discretionary)  $1,319 Billion
      Mandatory (entitlements)        2,252
      Net Interest                              225               
      Total                                      3,796
 
Receipts   (FIT, etc,)                      2,469     
 
Deficit                                           1,327
 
Without more tax revenue, we can balance the budget only by eliminating the Federal government including military.
 

[Gator]

How things have changed. 

[Muzh]

That would mean you are not getting paid for your work...

Ed, let me put it this way.

I can work for a lobbyist friend of mine part time and do 3 cases. That would pay me at least $25K more than I make in a year. The three cases would take me 3 weeks max to do.

So, yes. I'm virtually working for free.

BTW, I explained to my friend I am retiring, period. If he needs a little help, I will provide pro bono advice because he is my friend.

[GQBlues]

...Who do you think reelects these folks?

Sometimes certain questions are better left unanswered...Aw...what the heck...





...now paying close attention, for being poor, low income, etc...they sure seem well fed, no? The lady likely eats a plenty she even need to take advantage of Obamacare and get herself a new set of gnashers...

YES! Give us your poor, your sick and your disadvantaged. We will embrace all of them to the Land of the FREE!

[Eduard]

Sometimes certain questions are better left unanswered...Aw...what the heck...





...now paying close attention, for being poor, low income, etc...they sure seem well fed, no? The lady likely eats a plenty she even need to take advantage of Obamacare and get herself a new set of gnashers...

YES! Give us your poor, your sick and your disadvantaged. We will embrace all of them to the Land of the FREE!

Быдло

[Faux Pas]

Sometimes certain questions are better left unanswered...Aw...what the heck...


...now paying close attention, for being poor, low income, etc...they sure seem well fed, no? The lady likely eats a plenty she even need to take advantage of Obamacare and get herself a new set of gnashers...

YES! Give us your poor, your sick and your disadvantaged. We will embrace all of them to the Land of the FREE!

You know the most ironic piece of this is that it was Dubya's admin that gave these Democrats a phone. It would be damn funny of it wasn't true

[Belvis]

Romney is highly intelligent, so Romney's quote makes me wonder about the context.
 ...
It also makes me wonder about people who might believe Romney was serious.  Reminds me of a staff meeting at my military unit in Viet Nam in 1966.  I was a green lieutenant filling in for one of the staff.  The S-2, another lieutenant, read his weekly intelligence report from "Saigon command" advising that the Viet Cong could be planning an offensive and were armed with a new Soviet weapon - nuclear hand grenades.  The S-2 was serious.  The Colonel snapped back, "What is the date of that report?"  "April first, sir."  "And you believe that shit.  Good grief!" 

It seems american military brass has the advantage over russian one in sense of humour. I wander how S-2 was going to withstand nuclear hand grenades 

I find Romney's political agenda is more adequate than Obama's kicking the can down the road.  Тo be honest Russia benefits Obama's or should I say Bernanke's economical line which keeps up the commodity prices . However the bliss can't long forever.

[BC]

There you go again, giving up.  I understand your sentiment if you believe Obama will win.      
If we can not reach 4-5% growth, we are in serious fiscal trouble as entitlement expenditures are already almost equal to all tax revenue, and increasing at a rate faster than 2-3%.
 
2012 Budget 
 
Outlays
      Appropriated (discretionary)  $1,319 Billion
      Mandatory (entitlements)        2,252
      Net Interest                              225               
      Total                                      3,796
 
Receipts   (FIT, etc,)                      2,469     
 
Deficit                                           1,327
 
Without more tax revenue, we can balance the budget only by eliminating the Federal government including military.

Giving up? Hardly... just pointing out that a lower, but more steady growth is better than high growth based on fragile factors such as debt and other balloons that end up popping right and left.  3% is 30% over 10 years...  Yes, more has been achieved in the past, but at what final cost?

I'm sure you remember well the 60's and early 70's..  compare the home back then and now..  Most folks back then were quite happy with a 20 inch or so TV... Color was a luxury.  That was entertainment.  Today we have games, 50 inch TV's that almost anyone can afford and the ubiquitous  mobile devices that provide the new degree of instant satisfaction deemed necessary to keep up with the Jones'.....

What I am saying Gator is that maybe Main Street folks are also maturing in this fast paced era... maybe coming to the realization that they really do not need all that is offered, much less use credit to buy it...  The consumer saturation level has been reached and shoving more down their throats, especially if such requires credit will be very challenging.

I do hope the economy picks up again and stays steady.  There is one measure I will use to judge it by and that is whether or not I will see advertisements and signboards offering payday loans....  when they disappear I will know things are getting better.  Yeah, that maybe sounds quite strange, but it is something that is very unique to the US economy.. I have never, ever seen such outside the US and strangely enough UK.

Folks living within their means...  that's what it's all about and the economy will just have to adjust to that environment.  Is that not a huge part of 'responsibility' many Republicans tout?

[Faux Pas]

BC
A couple of points germane to your post you seem to look past. Bubbles come and go. That is why they are bubbles but, bubbles while they may appear artificial are generally an important ingredient to any economy. Bubbles still drive economies. Don't discount bubbles.

Even in the best of times economies are very, very fragile. Time is very much of the essence. While you are willing and satisfied for a 3% yearly growth rate in a 30 year plan, the current economy could very easily collapse from the weight of that slow growth. If the general public had any idea how fragile the US and world economy really is, we would all have bomb shelters loaded with a couple of years food.

If or when it does collapse, the experts contend that the depression of the 20s-30s could be compared as a mild recession to what will happen.

One measure to avoid such a collapse is some austerity measure while we are able. There may in fact be nothing to stop such a catastrophe but, what the experts also contend that is driving us there is debt and spending. Once the economy collapses there is no "uh oh we made a boo boo" moment and let's get a redo. There will be no redo in our lifetime.

[SANDRO43]

Bubbles come and go. That is why they are bubbles but, bubbles while they may appear artificial are generally an important ingredient to any economy. Bubbles still drive economies. Don't discount bubbles.

From what we've seen in our recent past, the problem is that they appear to drive a very few people into affluency, and quite too many down to much lower levels if not into poverty.

Like whipping maniacally a horse: you get a short-lived sprint, then a collapse .