So you're a "Sex Tourist" & you don't think you pollute the waters?

[Killer-B]

Taking the advice of some on this board, I went ahead and plunged into the "free" world of dating at FreeRussianPersonals.com - and must say, out of the handful of letters I've sent thus far (about 40) I've had a good return - and most have been honest and sincere - and truthfully, am kinda jazzed about the prospects...

That said, I sent one of my intro letters to a gal in the Volga region - and you also have to understand that my letter is written in Russian and is very clear about my "values" and "morals" and my religious beliefs - as well as "what I seek"...

Anyway, this just graced my Inbox doorstep:

[Edited for her spelling mistakes ONLY and to protect her true identity]






[align=right]Mailed-By: mail.ru[/align]
Reply-To: Olga <XXXXXX@mail.ru>
To:  <XXXXXXX@gmail.com>
Date: Apr 19 2006 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Letter for Olga , profile ID: 21XXXXX
 
Once I had bad expirience with American man. He came to Russia to visit me but later I found that he met in Russia not only with me and with another girls except me!!!!!! I was very disappointed when I found that he was a sex tourist and I do not want to repeat it! Be honest with me and if you are the same sex tourist and going to meet with many girls in Russia except me - do not waste my time!
 
[Killer] So WTF guys? No wonder the "nice guys" are getting trampled over there!
 
GRRRRRRR!
 
Flame......................................:seething:

[Goombah]

Killer -

I'd suggest you be honest with her and do your best to seperate sex from the conversation.

e.g.  If you plan on going over to meet just her - its easy, tell her that, and prove it (share travel plans, allow her to call you at the house the night before, etc.)  Thats easy if that is your plan.

However, if you are going to meet several woman, you will have to explain why, perhaps along the lines of:

Dear Olga -

I am not a sex tourist, I am a man seeking a wife.  I am currently talking with ten ladies, including yourself, and expect natural selection (failure to have common goals, values, life expectations, etc.) to reduce that number to 2 or 3 over the next few weeks.  If that happens, I would like to meet each of them when come to Russia.  I think it would be wonderful if it became absolutely clear that you and I were soul mates prior to us meeting, in which case I would clearly only come to visit you, but I fear that may only be wishful thinking.  I hope you understand that such a trip across the world is an exceptional effort for me both financially and it will consume most of the time I can take off of work for an entire year.  As much as I would like to be able to focus all my attention on a single lady at a time, doing so risks spending a decade on something I would like to accomplish in a year.

Please talk to me about this, and I promise I will be completely honest and truthful with you.

[Goombah]

Other thoughts:

If she grudingly acknowledges the reality of you visiting several ladies (for she surely won't do it with a smile), and she is your number 1 choice,  discuss with her when she would like to meet you:  When you first arrive, or as your last meeting.  This gives you the opportunity to point out that if she chooses last, and your previous meetings don't go well, you would be able to spend more time with her.  Remind her though that once your plans are finalized, you do feel obligated to at least meet each lady and spend agreed upon time with her - only if it becomes clear during such time that things are not going well would you reschedule.  That prevents her from selecting the first slot on the hopes of you canceling the others - which is a shitty thing to do to a lady you have spent months writing too (spoken from experience here).

That gives her a little bit of control over the situation, which MIGHT help in an otherwise complicated situation.

One last thought:  I would definetly NOT try and hide the fact that you are visiting multiple ladies if you are.  Its likely she will find out at the last minute, or force you to lie to her to cover the fact - neither of which is a good thing.

Kevin

[BillyB]

[user=505]Killer-B[/user] wrote:

 I was very disappointed when I found that he was a sex tourist and I do not want to repeat it! Be honest with me and if you are the same sex tourist and going to meet with many girls in Russia except me - do not waste my time!

Be cautious with this lady Killer-B. She should be positive and assume the best in everyone before the worst.

We've all had bad experiences in relationships but how would it sound if the men started their first few letters with "My ex-wife was a whore and a bitch and if you're a whore and a bitch - DON'T WASTE MY TIME!"

I have a feeling this woman is needing time to heal from the last experience she had. Maybe she's not ready for a relationship at the moment.

[Rvrwind]

B-Dump her!! She ain't worth the time of day. Any woman that can't figure out that you are spending literaly thousands of $'s to go to her country to find a lifemate & can't understand why you are seeing more than one woman is a ditz, plain & simple. Don't even consider this woman as she will be a problem from the get go: ie. control freak. That or very immature!

When I was a client I came right out & told them I wasn't flying halfway around the world & spending thousands of $'s to see one woman that may or may not work out. If you got a problem with that then your outa here, period!

When women sign up to my agency I tell them right up front how it works & that the men are not coming here to see them alone. It is a selection process based on many factors. If this method does not suit you then I suggest you find a good Russian man because that is the way it works.

Women with three, what I call attitudes get dumped immediately no questions asked & no second chances. This one is #1 on the list. #2 is the jealous woman & #3 is the one that states "let the man pay", I pay because I wish to, but when a woman expects it or demands it, I get a little intense. Three in my book that get written of instantly. I don't play games & I don't pull punches & thats just the way it is.

Lose her she won't be a good match & I'll guarrantee that!

RVR-Canadian Cowbo/Agency Owner

[Killer-B]

Hey guys - Goombah & Billy, thank you for the prompt and wise advice... I really appreciate it!

To be honest, I wrote out a long-arse reply, and then went to spellcheck and RWD puked on me and lost all I wrote  .... And now the site has been "offline" for several hours... So thought maybe Dan was starting the migration - but see that's not the case... Oh well - Will try again!

In the "fine print" of my Subject line - I made mention that this was the very 1st email I received from this gal (Olga) and yes Billy, I thought it was VERY odd that she came out throwing punches!!! Caught me waaaaaaay off guard compared to the other "nice" notes I've received thus far...

Either way, Goombah, thanks for taking the time to offer ideas about a "reply" to her - for I really wasn't sure how to respond - Ironically, I did decide to write her back this afternoon (when RWD was down) and what I wrote was almost word for word what you suggested (Great minds think alike LOL!) Point being, since this was really our "first exchange" - I really didn't have to address me meeting her (today) - but as far as the sex stuff goes, yeah, I totally jumped in the deep end there and defended that "most" western men are not this way (cough! :seething:) and that of course I understood why she would feel this way... I basically tried to do some damage control, and show her some "heart".... We'll see if it's lost in translation or not... Heck, for all I know she could just delete it -- or -- if she doesn't, am thinking pretty hard about hitting the eject button myself! For you're correct Billy, I too think my letter landed on her doorstep whilst the wounds were still fresh from this other "experience" she had... I know, I know, we all have our horror stories - I was just so surprised to see such venom aimed at a total "stranger" (well, they say RW ARE "direct" LOL!) - At least a guy knows where he stands with her!! LOL

Anyway, I've had several hours to digest all this - and the main reason I posted is that I'm kinda tired of "cleaning up other guys messes" - Ya know?? Yes, she is jilted - and for all I know maybe she has a part in it all - Who knows?? If she replies, I'll certainly share her thoughts....

Either way, I think my "Title" says it all - and why I'm kinda venting :burnedup: here today... I'm new to this board and group (well, fairly new) but do know most of the "regulars" at some level - and would like to think that there's some pretty good guys on here... (as well as some stellar RW that are reading/posting!  )  I mean, I know DragonFly had a rough go with someone once - so it does cut both ways...

Alright - I'll shuddup for now - Getting late - and my minds a blank LOL...

Thanks again for your help/insight!

Cheers,

Killer

[Killer-B]

Hey RVR - thanks for your thoughts too - I was writing my reply before I read your post - sorry...

You know what struck me first, was "immaturity"... I can see that pretty clearly in her letter... On the other hand - if some guy went and promised the moon (marriage, engagement, etc.) just to land her in the sack, and then bolted and went on a sex tour with several other women without telling her (wonder how she found out?) - Either way, I'd be a little "bent" too!!

As mentioned in my prior post - this was just the 1st exchange - so no meetings or anything planned - Just will hit the delete key, and move on!

I liked your #1-#2-#3 comment - For that pretty much falls in line with what I look for in the correspondences... If any thing "bitchy" pops up - EJECT! If I wanted that kind of abuse, I'd still be married to my AW! LOL -

Cya-

[Rvrwind]

Hey B...If she was burned I can sympathize (to an extent) with her but any adult gets over it & moves on. I know there are men who do this kind of behavior. We have a couple that visit our fair city of Tver at least once a year. Stay four 2-6 months & see how many women they can bed & then go home. Gives us all a bad rep. Ticks them off when I call them on it too, but you know me, I calls a spade, a spade!!!

These guys don't promise them marriage or nothing just try to chalk up as many conquests as they can. In this situation I blame the women as much as the man. If they are willing to drop their drawers when they barely know a guy then they have to live with the consiquences & not whine about it after the fact. If the guy makes promises of marriage & such just to bed her without any intention of keeping his promise then in my opinion he is a low life pig, plain & simple.

Her situation we don't know exactly, but what we do know is she is carrying some baggage that I don't think you really need to take on, on top of everything else in this adventure. I'm confident you'll make the right decision.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy

[Killer-B]

In my opinion, he is a low life pig, plain & simple.

Well, I call a spade a shovel! LOL -

But seriously, THIS is exactly my point for this post - and what I'm fuming about...

Guess maybe your "direct-ness" spells it out clearer than mine... Thanks...

Also pleased to see (hear) that you have the "brass" to actually call these guys on it - Guess I'm too diplomatic :noidea:

Why fly 6,000 km just to get laid? Stay in your own backyard and twist those women instead... Geez... :seething:

Well said RVR -

Cheers

[Mamma D]

She sounds like a lady that very well might be an manipulator. I think you could expect her to be very territorial once she became your wife....

It only makes sense to meet and get to know any number of ladies.....First you want to find ladies who are the kind you want to be friends.....

Friends are longer lasting than casual lovers!....

Enjoy the adventure and I hope you find the lady, who is equal to my Russian born daughter!

Mamma D

[Jumper]

So WTF guys? No wonder the "nice guys" are getting trampled over there!
 
GRRRRRRR!

why be upset? two side to every story , and in this case it sounds much more like a controlling woman ruined by her own mindset,
not a sex tourist duping her.

Actually , she only stated and was upset that he "met" other girls.
SHE put the sex toiurist label on him , it seems over simply meeting others..
if he was dishonest about meeting some other girls from an agency ,
 i can see her being upset..but it STILL wouldnt mean he was a sex tourist.
It's just as easily presumable he dint do anything but visit several girls..while on a trip to find someone of romantic interest,, what a cad!

Sure he COULD have been on a sex tour of his own,
but if she has any agency dating experinces,
 she would just blow it off as another goof ,and move on.. NOT be still pissed off about it..

She comes off as the controlling, manipulative one,
already making demands of you and how you will spend your time
in the INTRO letter.
I'm sure this past man received the same amount of consideration..lol

She is a WOVO type of girl and needs (actually demands up front)
a WOVO man.¦nbsp; Good for her! and nice thats she so upfront about it!
(most RW are fairly direct, dont worry )
¦nbsp;So if WOVO is your style, great!

but if you have even the slightest idea of meeting others ,
 i wouldnt think of meeting a girl placing such demands and accusations on me in an intro letter..
(even though i think its fine, i'm definantly not WOVO,¦nbsp; so paka)

The funny thing is, do you thgink she is turning down every date this week offered by a nice interesting foriegner in town , or by local interesting men?
nope!  not a chance , and honestly she shouldnt be.She should be actively dating if she normal...   

so its bizarre in my mind  to make demands of a man she hasnt met..

[2tallbill]

Once I had bad experience with American man. He came to Russia to visit me but later I found that he met in Russia not only with me and with another girls except me!!!!!!

If a guy goes on a visit many doesn't make him a sex tourist.

[Trenchcoat]

I would say don't feel a need to have to pander to what a prospective woman wants. OP might have decided to go meet this girl and then upon arrival there be no chemistry. If nothing further can easily be arranged with other girls then it can easily end up a wasted journey - worse if from a long way like the US. A FSW can state all her demands but she's not the one making the long journey, expense, etc.

I would message her to tell her that not all guys doing such are sex tourists and explain. Where you go from there is up to you but in the time I've dated FSW satisfying up front demands like this I have found has tended not to work well. It doesn't gain you the affection of the woman upon meeting any more and she doesn't necessarily appreciate that you have satisfied her demands.

[2tallbill]

I would say don't feel a need to have to pander to what a prospective woman wants. OP might have decided to go meet this girl and then upon arrival there be no chemistry. If nothing further can easily be arranged with other girls then it can easily end up a wasted journey - worse if from a long way like the US. A FSW can state all her demands but she's not the one making the long journey, expense, etc.

Rather than waste a trip on a wovo, that's when you start your backup plan. My first trip to Voronezh was
to meet a 6ft tall green eyed girl. We had chemistry, I didn't start a got lucky thread because it wasn't
a rarity for me. I figured out that I didn't like her enough to think that she was going to be the future
Mrs 2tallbill so we broke it off. Then I went to my back up plan to meet other girls mostly from social
networking sites.

I met several girls, then I found Angel Eyes. I convinced her to meet me. I had other dates that I had
arranged previously, but I cancelled them to spend the rest of the trip pursuing Angel Eyes. I didn't
waste my trip, I maximized it.

I had never written nor talked to Angel Eyes before kick starting my backup plan.

Udachi!

Bill

[Trenchcoat]

Rather than waste a trip on a wovo, that's when you start your backup plan. My first trip to Voronezh was
to meet a 6ft tall green eyed girl. We had chemistry, I didn't start a got lucky thread because it wasn't
a rarity for me. I figured out that I didn't like her enough to think that she was going to be the future
Mrs 2tallbill so we broke it off. Then I went to my back up plan to meet other girls mostly from social
networking sites.

I met several girls, then I found Angel Eyes. I convinced her to meet me. I had other dates that I had
arranged previously, but I cancelled them to spend the rest of the trip pursuing Angel Eyes. I didn't
waste my trip, I maximized it.

I had never written nor talked to Angel Eyes before kick starting my backup plan.

Udachi!

Bill

An ability of the prospective WM to be appealing for women to message/talk to online is needed. This leads into what Krim describes as being a product on the shelf, the presentation sells, the better product sells.

The same goes for Social Media as Dating Sites, it's got to appeal to the woman. A guy who is appealing to women in general will get the time of day off them on social media. A woman won't mind a guy she finds appealing contacting her on social media. They only start to mind if they don't find the guy so appealing. That's when you get the, 'do I know you?' And, 'why are you contacting me' and perhaps a few declines maybe even the odd block.

Some people on here in the past have days social media is not for dating of the back of those type of negative responses. I now disagree, it can be a great tool to find a good lady, and potentially better than dating sites but having a good profile is as essential on social media as dating sites for it to work.

One possible thing to bear in mind with Social Media is whether there is the ability to cover up who your friends/connections are. I have found that FSW will leave as quickly as they join if they see a load of other women there. They assume you are a player, sex tourists, whatever but not genuine. They don't like the comp of other women. So playing a careful game is essential if deciding to go that route.

[krimster2]

ya wanna "converge" to a solution to the horniness problem
and not diverge from a solution...
afterall, even beefarmer had a major sex problem, until he ended up having a "solution in hand"

convergence means you make a selection and go with it (even if it's yur right hand, like BeeFarmer)

any woman who gives ya negative vibes, and a controllin attitude
should be IMMEDIATELY passed over and left for the next idiot to have to deal with
if ya don't, you'll have nothin but regret later!!!

you should not "fret" over "sunk costs"
if ya do, then it's better to "cut and run" as early as possible
to fight again, another day, in another venue

when things "click"
you'll know it

and if they don't, you keep lookin

most important thing to understand about yurself is this...
the "natural state" of man is stoopidity and ignorance
and this is the root cause of ALL the mistakes you make

only by lifting yourself up, through knowledge and wisdom
can you overcome yur own tendency towards failure caused by yur own ignorance and general lack of clear thinking

unfortunately, most of ya'll are WAY too phuqued-up to follow this advice
lesser men, will have lesser outcomes, and this is an ineascapable law of nature

yur whole goal, should be to differentiate yurself from lesser men
otherwise, it's your picture 'dey is gonna use to describe it in the dictionary
and if a woman looks at ya that way, you don't even exist...

women are the coldest, most calculating creatures on the planet
and face it, yur mostly a bunch of dumb phuques
so what chance do ya'll have playin in this game?

[2tallbill]

They don't like the comp of other women. So playing a careful game is essential if deciding to go that route.

You are over thinking this. The purpose of using social networking sites is to get a coffee/team
meeting. If you meet and their is no chemistry, it doesn't matter how many women friends you
have.

[Grumpy]

 A woman once accused me of being a sex tourist, I replied that if I was a sex hermit, she would have never met me. She thought about that for a minute or two and replied "I like you". Don't put up with crap or you will go through life wearing five buckle overshoes.