Forum Feuding

[Admin]

One of the posts I read recently motivated me to take a look at the old Planet-Love archives. There, I found this ancient post (2003) made PRIOR to founding RWD. The topic was about Posting Guidelines and committing myself to some simple 'rules' for productive forum participation. It may be useful for our members now to take a look and see if those principles yet apply.

You can find that post here --> http://www.planet-love.com/smf/index.php/topic,14356.0.html

[I/O]

We have about 3 threads crossing over the same subject at the moment so if mods want to move this, feel free..

TBH, I've been an infrequent visitor of recent years but anytime I have looked in, political discussion has dominated recent posts. I'm not an avid political observer but I'd wager on being as up with it as most and I can certainly do without it here.

With the slowing FSU MOB market, the future issues here are pretty obvious but FWIW, the thing I have found helpful of more recent times is to occasionally trip over something someone else is experiencing (both enjoyable and or challenging) in their marriage which is similar to my own.

All marriages have their ups and downs. During the challenging times one can feel as if their experience is unique - usually it isn't. This might be an opportunity for board development....?

[japtats]

Grasshopper, there are plenty of men who will lay on a 38 year old women's couch
chain smoking and f#ck her without a condom and get waited on hand and foot.
But none of those couch lying men will marry them or accept their kids.

Recent woman i dated, her father was as you described when she was born (she is 18 now). Mother kicked him out, now due to the internet, he can work online, make a western income, whilst residing in the FSU.  The game is changing , evolution is happening, you can choose to ignore it (Hard for people to see game changes, and need to hold onto old facts). I will go back to what i said, game has changed, there are men about, but the question is the quality of the women?

but I probably have far greater
experience

 

In the old game, without allowing the economical differences now change your perspective.

There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

yes, so next time Trench preaches what you preach, in a different style, maybe don't take cheap digs at his income because you don't like him indirectly insulting you. Just swallow the pill nicely, and try a be a big boy.

[I/O]

he can work online, make a western income, whilst residing in the FSU

Not even close. There are, of course exceptions. The average income differences between Westerners vs Russians, Ukrainians, etc remain vast.

Salaries (average weekly - all permanent workers), taken from relevant jurisdiction govt agency, BLS, ABS etc, rounded to nearest 100 USD

USA $1000
Australia $1300
Russia $200

Haven't bothered to look at Western Europe as salaries there are traditionally much higher than USA or Aus - I acknowledge that so are the costs of living also..
 

[Davo]

Bill has done well, but I dont expect a rush of new people asking questions until after the virus thingy is over

For those of us in the USA , I would say you arent alone, and thats why K1 Visas for women in the FSU have steadily declined. With the virus, probably at a standstill right now. The boom was the 90s, because one could afford a housewife then, or the 3-5 years it will take before she can work. Its not like a Filipina that would gladly start working for $15/hr  under the table as a maid the week she arrived. When I brought my wife over from the FSU, I could add her on to my company health insurance for free, kids were free too until about 2002 then  my employer asked that we pay 25% and it went steadily up from there. Many jobs today, dont even offer good plans and the employee is paying 400-$800/mo for so so insurance.  Most young single people cant afford just that, let alone all the expenses you mentioned.

Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my behalf.

I’ve spent hundreds of hours reading the main sections right back to day one and can see this place was buzzing in the past. Even since I’ve  been here I’ve seen a decline, but there are still plenary of serous men seeking FSU women and also travelling even in this climate. I’m taking to a handful of beginners and some a little more experienced (made several trips)  on a daily basis daily, that i’ve met mainly on non FSU FB relationship advice groups... more than have signed up here in the last year. Some are aware of this site and others have no idea it exists. It seems there’s a lack of incentive to become a member and participate.

There’s always over 1000 visitors here at any one time, but how do you get them to sign up with the hope of some contributing?... I still think it’s worth trailing my idea I posted a while ago and only allow the first page of each topic to be viewed by non members and promote the fact that becoming a member opens up a wealth of of valuable knowledge to them. Even if .05% of daily visitors introduced themselves or asked a question, this place would come alive over night.... If it doesn’t make a difference the sites lost nothing and returns to its original format. I think it’s worth a try.

[japtats]

Not even close. There are, of course exceptions. The average income differences between Westerners vs Russians, Ukrainians, etc remain vast.

Salaries (average weekly - all permanent workers), taken from relevant jurisdiction govt agency, BLS, ABS etc, rounded to nearest 100 USD

USA $1000
Australia $1300
Russia $200

Haven't bothered to look at Western Europe as salaries there are traditionally much higher than USA or Aus - I acknowledge that so are the costs of living also..

My ex fiance's sitters husband trades Bitcoins, he doesn't need to live in the West to be able to buy her an apartment near city center in Moscow in cash, all his work is done on a laptop. The girlfriend i dated, the father deals with western clients, coders are here also dealing with western clients. See where i am going? You can drop averages, or deal with certain people , people who work digitally are playing a different game to you and what Bill think. There are people here with money, not dealing with high cost of living of the West.

This is also the problem with a lot of people in the FSU, there is a big game, to live cheaply, work online, deal with Western clients. I saw this potential a decade ago , but a few are taking advantage of it. So i go back to what i was saying, game has changed. So days where you a bill came in, where women will gulp at a passport, bills paid, and going do a half decent restaurant  once a fortnight , are far gone. I seen the changes since maybe 8 years i been jumping between West and FSU, i am shocked that some of you missed it, maybe not very observant, and want to cling onto old truths?

[2tallbill]

yes, so next time Trench preaches what you preach, in a different style, maybe don't take cheap digs at his income because you don't like him indirectly insulting you. Just swallow the pill nicely, and try a be a big boy.

Don't preach to me, Trench can take anything that I say and turn it around
backwards and get the wrong message from it at least 75% of the time.

Trench gets it right less than 25% of the time.

If you want to scrap about something, I'm your huckleberry.

[I/O]

maybe not very observant

Maybe...🤔 Or maybe, I've been watching the development very closely for near 20 years and yes, we have friends in Russia who are wealthy, very wealthy, way in front of us but they remain the exception.

Nobody is disputing the game has changed but relationships based on economic disparity were always a fools errand.

The fact remains that despite significant improvement in standards and economic leverage across the FSU states, there is a long way to go before average earnings come close to the West.

[Davo]

Jap, I’m guilty in my post a few days ago at of taking a cheap shot at trenches wage too, but if you read in many topics most of us have given constructive criticism regarding this issue for him and putting everything aside without a doubt it’s the biggest hurdle he faces, if he wants to be successful.

Most of us are are older than you, including trench who’s heading towards his mid 40’s. The main difference is a lot of of us have been in serious committed relationships, lived with women or have  been married, had children, divorced, dated again at home etc.. before travelling down the FSU dating path. Most of us have a very good idea of the financial requirements needed that comes along with these life experiences. It doesn’t make him a lesser man (probably makes him a smart man 😂) ,but Trench hasn’t experienced any of this.

I for one want trench to succeed and it must start with his financial situation. Not taking into account the cost of travel, dating, visa, wedding, relocating his wife, 2nd car, setting up a house for a woman etc... etc.. etc...,  If he wants to find a nice woman, have children and wants her to be a homemaker and be not contribute financially, he’s vastly underestimating the costs involved. Even with a two income family, with a child and both on average wages it’s a struggle financially sometimes... I’ve been there.

If he wants to find a woman in the next few years he needs to dedicate every waking moment to at least double his wage. It’s taken me almost 2 years of hard work to triple my income. I wake at 5am and sometimes walk in from work at 11pm, 6 days a week.... I’m not big noting myself, it’s just the cold hard reality if I want to marry a woman who has a child, live a good quality of life that’s comfortable and have the ability to afford some of lifes luxuries in retirement. What Trench is looking for age a lot more financially challenging.

Respectfully he needs to get his act together, because FSU dating is financially out of his reach atm and 40 is the sweet spot for dating at home, with the most quality women available for guys our age... He’ll run out of options on both fronts without a reality check soon.

Edit...I have to get up in 4 hours, but if I have time tomorrow I’ll give you my perspective on single mothers from ages 32-45.... Wealthy by Russian standards, average wage earners and those struggling to get by and living at home with their parents. I might not have the experience of others here, but over the last couple of years I’ve chatted with well over 50 divorced single mothers online and met a some in real life who are quite well off. It’s heart breaking for most of them when it comes to meeting men at home and abroad, no matter what their financial situation or lot in life is... statements along the lines of “I’m invisible to good men” is a term I heard often and as Bill said, most have accepted there’s a good chance they will be alone forever, unless they are lucky and can meet a genuine foreign man.

[GenMish]

On the subject of Russia improving quality of life and salaries since the 90s Collapse.

Quality of living, Russia is full of Western style apartments now. In the 90s my wifes cousin had a tiny Stalin era apartment, without a door to the bathroom because the bath tub doubled as the only sink, now he lives in a very nice 2 bedroom 1000 sq ft apartment in great part of Moscow.  Personally, I would rather live in Moscow than most US Big Cities. But American Men still have some cards to play to get that FSU woman. US Suburbs are awesome. Even with a slightly above average income, a US man can offer a setting ideal for a raising a family. With more income, a coastline or exclusive gated country club lifestyle


Salaries dont tell the whole story in Russia. Professionals , Government, Healthcare workers all get bribes. If you want something done, you are paying a little extra under the table. I would multiply their incomes by 2 or three. Even a good carpenter is going to build Dachas on the side. He has time, because Russians are not required to work as often as Americans. Dont forget the long break they get in August, many take the whole month off.


If I was a young fella looking, I would concentrate on the older cities in the Urals or even Siberia. I know some here dont agree with me, but I wouldnt advise anyone bring home a woman over 30, just not worth it (imo). The ideal man would need to 35 or younger, wanting a family, to get a high quality 20-25 yr old Russian lady.

[mhr7]

Not even close. There are, of course exceptions. The average income differences between Westerners vs Russians, Ukrainians, etc remain vast.

Salaries (average weekly - all permanent workers), taken from relevant jurisdiction govt agency, BLS, ABS etc, rounded to nearest 100 USD

USA $1000
Australia $1300
Russia $200

Haven't bothered to look at Western Europe as salaries there are traditionally much higher than USA or Aus - I acknowledge that so are the costs of living also..

I agree with this 100%. Currently, $1 equals roughly 74 rubles, which is the worst it's been in a long time. Average monthly wage outside of Moscow is roughly $635 but I know many who make much less, closer to $300.

[I/O]

Salaries dont tell the whole story in Russia. Professionals , Government, Healthcare workers all get bribes

This is true but perhaps not quite as general as it once was. Nevertheless, it's a factor but, the folk in this bracket(s) are not generally buying properties with a view of Red Square.

[Sea Salt Caramel]

Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, FSU or at the very least Russian women over a certain age threshold are pretty much out of options when it comes to dating with the view of having a family.

Exceptions only prove the rule, and of course anyone can give the example of Dasha Zhukova, who is pushing 40 and yet was able to successfully remarry after splitting from Roman Abramovitch.

But if we don't go into the ridiculously rich territory, and look at an average 40-ish RW, who lives in a town or city other than Moscow, and works in a typical mundane job (glass ceiling is alive and well here, so fewer women than men are in positions of power, so all things considered, that average woman likely has a job that doesn't pay her thousands of $, bribes or not - how often do you bribe a shop assistant? how big is a bribe you'd give to a kindergarten teacher? Tell me of the last time you met a librarian from Tula who traded in bitcoin?) Anyway, for a woman like that, the chances of finding a life partner are pretty slim.

From what I see among the women that age (and I'm in that age bracket myself), in a city of 1 million+, those of them who married decent men back in their 20s, are doing well. Those that did not marry or got divorced, mostly are alone, whether it's something they want or not. They might go on occasional dates, maybe have lovers - but the chances of actually finding someone who they'd want to marry and who'd want to marry them, are not very high.

There seems to be something like an invisible threshold, which is somewhere between 35 and 40 for many women, after hitting which she pretty much becomes an un-dateable. Puzzles me what it could be, but maybe it's a part of the general ageism tendency around here.

[tfcrew]

Exceptions only prove the rule, and of course anyone can give the example of Dasha Zhukova, who is pushing 40 and yet was able to successfully remarry after splitting from Roman Abramovitch.

Dasha Zhukova net worth: Dasha Zhukova is a Russian American businesswoman, art collector, and magazine editor who has a net worth of $100 million.

39 going on 25

[japtats]

Maybe... Or maybe, I've been watching the development very closely for near 20 years

ANd yet you missed the clear development of FSU.

but relationships based on economic disparity were always a fools errand.

Then you should have never married someone in FSU decades ago,with a child,  where the financial situation was a mess. You lost that medal the moment you or anyone step ground on FSU to pursue a wife. You and him a similar difficulty coming terms with this pill.

there is a long way to go before average earnings come close to the West.

Well done, for missing the observation, remind me again never to ask you for anything financial predictions related. I will give you something, so maybe even you could possibly understand. A house in the city where i am in, next to the mayor and other financially well off people, will cost $150k, how much will it cost for you to live in a similar place? Remind me again, why does someone need to make 7 figures a year in FSU, to live a lifestyle that probably nobody on here can?

I am not disputing FSU vs West. But what i will tell you, and others in FSU, it is not how much you make, but how much you make vs cost of living, i know this might be a very complex calculation for you , and others to comprehend. It involves taking two things into consideration, not just one.

[japtats]

Jap, I’m guilty in my post a few days ago at of taking a cheap shot at trenches wage too, but if you read in many topics most of us have given constructive criticism regarding this issue for him and putting everything aside without a doubt it’s the biggest hurdle he faces, if he wants to be successful.

I don't disagree his income is his main issue. But it is hard for him to come to terms with it, but nobody has the right to take constant jabs at him , when they disagree with what he says, then later says the same thing what he says. It is rude, and absurd at the same time. Also Trench has something, that many other people lack, he is flexible in his mindset, for example, if you read some of his posts, he changes his position after accepting new information, also whilst a lot of men here have trouble coming terms that they went to the FSU decades ago to pursue finding a woman, and using their economic leverage to find a woman, Trench can freely accept this. This is attributes many lack, but Trench has. Him and ML i noticed are very good at doing this.

[I/O]

Then you should have never married someone in FSU

Lol, any married man has entertained that thought more than once...🤣🎄

As for the rest of your diatribe, yeah well....

[2tallbill]

ANd yet you missed the clear development of FSU.

Then you should have never married someone in FSU decades ago,with a
child,  where the financial situation was a mess. You lost that medal the
moment you or anyone step ground on FSU to pursue a wife. You and
him a similar difficulty coming terms with this pill.

I think this discussion might have legs, I have started a poll and a thread
here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25017.new#new

[GenMish]

'Post wall women' and Trench

I noticed that too Sea Salt, something seems to happen around 40. But it does change, I know 3 men in their 60s that married last year. I think when retirement is around the corner, men will choose their 2nd wife. Thats probably what I will do. I can play golf and tennis everyday, dont need a wife for a few years.

I have been here a couple years, Trench brings it on himself. Sometimes I wonder if he is subconsciously trying for attention.

[Trenchcoat]

On the topic of Forum Feuding I think it is natural for this to occur. People have different personalities and different views. I personally don't mind it, never have, if anything it is more entertaining and interesting to hear from people that don't agree with me/each other. We don't all necessarily feud with all members on here. I can think of several members that I have disagreed with but not ended up feuding with them. Sometimes based on what they put if it makes logical sense enough to me I have even decided that in the end they were right despite our earlier disagreement. They haven't taken offense either.

I hear that to some feuding can be off-putting especially new members who get landed upon after just asking about a perfectly innocent enough question. There is/was of course one member I think we all know who, who tended to go after these poor unsuspecting 'victims' as fresh easy meat to tuck into lol.

I'm not sure whether there will be much better uptake in new forum members coming forth. I suspect the virus is hindering interest in FSU dating site until people can easily travel in & out without issue. I think it's probably a case that for some people not feuding is a struggle and they won't ever go well with those that don't wish to. Some people just want to have friendly civil discussions, others either get bored of that or can't help themselves and get more energetically involved.

Like I say it all depends on taste, I don't think either feuders or non-feuders are wrong in the way they discuss stuff but I don't think the two like to mix too much. I think some like myself can fit happily into either category where others it's just one or the other. It's why I suggested two forum boards but as to how our forum feuder is occupying himself post muzzling I'm not too sure

[japtats]

He knows his income is an issue, and wants to work at it. Most people don't want to accept they need to change, you got guys who make good money, but are fat, they don't want to believe they need to change. And then hire a dating coach for $10k, who will teach them cheap tricks, which in the end leads them to nowhere.

If they picked u a set of dumbells, made money, they would avoid 99% of the problems they had with women. But like i said, not many like to change. Hence why some guys can swoop in and take what they want, as they are not scared to change.

[GenMish]

Im going to disagree w/Trench. We should not expect feuding. In 94, you made brothers because of FSU. You didnt disrespect someone, because we needed each other.  If you needed a package to get to your lady, you found out who was the next guy that was going out and sent it to him. There was a lot of trust built up among us. there was no internet, so we shared all the recent information

Then I come here, and there are constant arguments. And over what ? Petty stuff , arguing like schoolgirls

[John Gaunt]

He knows his income is an issue, and wants to work at it. Most people don't want to accept they need to change, you got guys who make good money, but are fat, they don't want to believe they need to change. And then hire a dating coach for $10k, who will teach them cheap tricks, which in the end leads them to nowhere.

If they picked u a set of dumbells, made money, they would avoid 99% of the problems they had with women. But like i said, not many like to change. Hence why some guys can swoop in and take what they want, as they are not scared to change.

That’s exactly it. He deliberately keeps his income low to avoid paying tax because he thinks there’s too many people freeloading off the state and he doesn’t want his money to pay for them. Of course, he still expects to get free healthcare and a pension himself which other taxpayers are funding. So whose the freeloader here.

Then he has some ridiculous notion of taking in lodgers to fund his fsuw hunt.
He’s best remaining in his basement and googling Incel sites.

[2tallbill]

He’s best remaining in his basement and googling Incel sites.

I had to Google Incel, I've never heard of it before.

Incel: A member of an online community of young men who consider themselves
unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile
toward women and men who are sexually active. "self-identified incels have used
the internet to find anonymous support" source Google


Inside the Secret World of Incels
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07fvhmw

Documentary explores the twisted world of women-hating ‘incels’
http://nypost.com/2019/07/12/documentary-explores-the-twisted-world-of-women-hating-incels/

[John Gaunt]

I had to Google Incel, I've never heard of it before.

Incel: A member of an online community of young men who consider themselves
unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile
toward women and men who are sexually active. "self-identified incels have used
the internet to find anonymous support" source Google


Inside the Secret World of Incels
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07fvhmw

Documentary explores the twisted world of women-hating ‘incels’
http://nypost.com/2019/07/12/documentary-explores-the-twisted-world-of-women-hating-incels/

Incel= Involuntary Celibate