Men

[GQBlues]

For the majority of young men it is objectively harder for them to have sex than in the past. For the most desirable of men it is much easier; dating apps are like UberEats for sex. So it may be easier for you but worse for average men.

Young women are far more selective. There's a rise of sugar daddy relationships in the West which reduces the pool for younger men. Dating is also less localised, which means women can select from suitors from anywhere in the world if their suitors have the financial means - through social media and smart phones. Technology has transformed the dating market as much as it has transformed commercial markets.

Young men are getting less sex. Contrary to what Boe thinks, young men still want sex. For some the only access is single mothers.

The 'in my day' line is frivolous. The courtship years of my grandparents are incomparable to that of the current generation. It's a different culture now. Women in their 20s have always lived with smart phones and social media... and have been shaped by them. They receive an artificial sense of attention that modifies their mate selection.

The game has changed. If you have teenage children you should be very concerned about their social media usage, particularly for girls. Facebook, the owner of Instagram, are well aware of the issues: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2021/10/05/heres-how-instagram-harms-young-women-according-to-research/?sh=3f0794a5255a

Culture has changed due to technology.

Sad if this fact is true today. If any, I thought today's technology redefined the world monogamy for men - it's no longer sex with one partner for a lifetime, but rather sex with 'a' partner one at a time in our lifetime. After all, promiscuity, especially in men, is so rampant that even as far back as the days of Moses, the biblical 10 commandments rang its warning twice. Once for 'doing it', and another just for 'thinking about it'.


Oh to be young again, yes indeedy!

[2tallbill]

WTF happened to men ?

It's all based on age. The percentage of unmarried women without kids
who are 25 years old is far greater than the percentage of women without
kids at age 40.

The second time around is the second time around

I'm sure by now somebody already made this point.

[rwd123]

That is your opinion, rwd.  It's not backed up by sociological studies.  As of 2020 (before COVID), 39% of couples met online in the US.  The vast majority of couples met either through work, school, or through other friends.

You keep changing the subject.

I am talking about sex, I am not talking about relationships. I never once discussed how couples meet.

Roughly the same number of women in their 20s are having sex. Roughly double the men in their 20s are not having sex. For many young men the only option is single mothers. That was my response to the original post which was asking why more young men are shacking up with single women. I don't think you've actually addressed his question.

Are you seriously disputing that technology has not changed human behaviour?

[Jumper1]

Red123, hmm Where are those numbers derived from?

You referenced an article and study, that was about the natural  stereotyping on the net of young female  teens.
It was alluding to body image they view as needed to be successful or popular.
A platform.that intensifies the highschoolish juvenile nature of that ,
is not exactly going to.prop.up.the majority of young teens self image and suddenly make them.pickier in their selection process. They few genetically blessed perhaps,which is same as it ever was.


Has the net changed a dynamic? Sure.

However I dont know any young men in their 20s starving for female attention or sex,quite the opposite. That's actually laughble amongst the ones I know.
I dont know any that would be interested in a woman with children for more than sex initially.If feelings for both developed they might.
It certainly would not be based in desperation.

In my line of work I deal with 20 something males daily , I dont
recall any that lacked female companionship or a string of such if they wanted.
I live in a  university town full.of college aged people, they are hooking up as much as ever, if not more so.Both genders.
It's certainly not as lopsided as the numbers you just posted.

Granted that may not be true elsewhere,but it sure seems like any other college town anywhere.
Yes they grew up with the net and cell.phones, yes it changes the face of how they meet. Doesn't seem to change the level of hook ups though,seems to.increase it.
The sky isnt falling for any normal average .20 year old male. You know why ?  There are an equal number of 20 yo
average  females.like always
And no they don't all  date the captain of the universities football team,or conversely the hottest girl at university, just because dating apps and social media exist.

The trend towards putting off serious relationships and marriage to a letervtime in life was ongoing,so while the net may have accelerated that somewhat,its still a natural progression as well.
🤷‍♂️

[rwd123]

Red123, hmm Where are those numbers derived from?

It was up thread. 28% of young men weren't having sex, up from 10% a decade earlier. For those 30-50 it does not appear there has been a major change.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/

I don't have stats on the rise of sugar daddies but Google Trends is a fairly good indication of the growth in interest (up 3x over the decade).

http://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=sugar daddy

However I dont know any young men in their 20s starving for female attention or sex,quite the opposite. That's actually laughble amongst the ones I know.

I don't associate with homeless people nor see them often. It doesn't mean they don't exist. Your personal experience does not represent societal trends.

The sky isnt falling for any normal average .20 year old male. You know why ?  There are an equal number of 20 yo
average  females.like always

That's Trenchcoat levels of logic.

Those 20yo girls are sleeping with their peers but with less of their peers. The best guys are getting more access to sex. More guys are not getting laid.

So if I am so wrong about trends with dating and sexual activity, why are more young men shacking up with single women?

[Jumper1]

Society where?
World wide?
Western only?

Are more young men shacking up with women with children?

If so, is it  a significant percent to show social shift?

A study showing younger men not having as much sex, certainly doesnt mean they are shacking up with women with children as example
It might * show a motivation for them to,but it would actually be indicating they are not?


Are there other contributing factors?
The number of young women with children,is it a higher percent?

The number of young men feeling far less pressure to fit in a hetero sexual role, might come into play in such a study,was that addressed?

Certainly my local observations are not a study,but yes I find it hard to believe that young women are as sexually active as ever, but less  young men are.
Possible,just seems unlikely
 
So  ultimately are  the number of people in romantic relationships less than a decade ago in that demographic?
It's a study only of sexual encounters?

I've also seen articles on a blogger on IG disrupt thousands of studies within  her age group demographic, over a simply vid exposing how college kids could .make a few  bucks  answering study  surveys.
Cost marketing researchers a lot of time and money after they finally  figured out their results were worthless.
 
Anyway by that studies findings the captain of the local.football.team.is a lot m more busy than the one a decade ago.

[Trenchcoat]

I can see where a single mum might suit some and for them it works great but I also get the impression that some men, far more than say back in the nineties where a big growth in young mums in the UK was seen as a big evil especially by the then Tory government, that they are feeling they gave little choice than to get with them. I don't have any statistics but I see it a lot more around. Bringing up a child can be an psychological and financial burden for a guy and if the child isn't his biologically it is likely not a great feeling for many guys. Guts that have the finance side of things sorted probably less so of course in my opinion.

[Boethius]

From a relatively recent study -

plausible reasons include changes in sexual norms that may affect actual and reported sexual activity; the stress and busyness of modern life in which leisure, work, and intimate relationships need to be juggled; and the supply of online entertainment that may compete with sexual activity.  Although these hypotheses could explain the decrease in frequency among partnered individuals, additional mechanisms may be associated with the increases in sexual inactivity observed in our study. For example, rates of depression and anxiety have increased among young US adults; US adolescents are increasingly postponing the start of adult activities, including sex and dating; and it has been hypothesized that the introduction of smartphones has resulted in less opportunity for and skills in real-world human interactions. For women, sexual inactivity may also be associated with a greater prevalence of “hooking up” (which has generally been reported to be less pleasurable for women) or potential increases in sexual aggression directed toward women.  Moreover, we found that men with lower income and those with part-time or no employment were more likely to be sexually inactive. These findings are consistent with literature showing associations between lower income and measures of sexual inactivity and decreased appeal in the mating market for men.  Given the widening disparities in economic security (some of which are more pronounced among young men), the preference for men of higher socioeconomic status, and the larger number of college-educated young women than men in the US, it has been suggested that a subset of young men find it difficult to establish themselves in the heterosexual mating market.  In our study, sexual inactivity in younger age groups was more common among men than women, and the increase in sexual inactivity was observed only among men identifying as heterosexual, although educational level was not associated with any measure of sexual activity, and being a student was associated with sexual inactivity among men and women. Moreover, the increase in sexual inactivity among men remained after adjustment for changes in employment status.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2767066

[ML]

 In our study, sexual inactivity in younger age groups was more common among men than women

- - - - - - -

Not too surprising.

Almost any female can find a ready partner (previously known or unknown) to have sex with almost anytime she wants.

Not so for almost any male.

- - - - - - -

Some years back a friend of mine told of an encounter he had at a hotel in Cincinnati when he was there only a couple of nights for business.

He was sitting at hotel bar in evening minding his own business when a rather ordinary gal came up and sat beside him and struck up a conversation.  She was not a hooker.

He related how she moved the relationship along smoothly and rather briskly; and within the hour they had met, gone to her room, finished the deed and he was off to his room to sleep.

This same guy would go months at a time before finding a gal to have sex with.

[Jumper1]

ML, yes, that's generally always the case so.ots not surprising.

What is being alledged  by studies is a swing to sexual inactivity  is up 18% in young men over the last decade or so.

The net and dating apps are proposed here as the main culprit.
Although the studies seem.to indicate a host of factors
 

[ML]

Interesting this swing toward sexual inactivity by (most) males compared to females.
And coupled with idea that many females are having sex with the same male.

This is completing a circle that goes back to earlier mankind and is the norm for most animal species.

i.e. The dominate alpha male in the herd provides (almost) all the sex for (almost) all the females in the herd.

This next part I remember from seeing a PBS special (or somewhere) many years ago and is somewhat fuzzy in my aging brain . . . so others with more specific info can chime in.

This fact of alpha males providing most all the sex carried over to early humans (and those that proceeded).  This, in turn, led to severe fighting among the remaining young men in the tribe whose testosterone was raging.

To settle things down in the tribe, the elders decreed that each man should have only one woman, thus allowing for most every man to have a woman.

Even later, this idea was incorporated into formal marriage in most religions.

Currently with sexual restrictions relaxed for females, the females are leading the way toward reverting back to the behavior of animals wherein the alpha male provides sex for many females.

[2tallbill]

Almost any female can find a ready partner (previously known or unknown) to
have sex with almost anytime she wants.

Not so for almost any male.

Freddie Mercury knew the solution

[2tallbill]

Interesting this swing toward sexual inactivity by (most) males compared to females.
And coupled with idea that many females are having sex with the same male.

Currently with sexual restrictions relaxed for females, the females are leading the way toward reverting back to the behavior of animals wherein the alpha male provides sex for many females.

NOTE: I am not making any claims, I just wanted to post a few articles to generate
additional thought and debate.

Back in the olden days when I was a young man, the percentage of young men
spending hours and hours per week playing video games was nearly zero and
internet porn didn't exist.


91 percent of kids are gamers, research says
http://www.cnet.com/home/smart-home/91-percent-of-kids-are-gamers-research-says/


The Association Between Video Gaming and Psychological Functioning
http://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.01731/full


Is there a correlation between a country’s rate of internet pornography usage and
sexless men?

National surveys suggest Americans are having less sex.
Here’s why — or if — it matters to the future
http://www.deseret.com/indepth/2021/3/24/22346585/is-sex-recession-real-or-lasting-institute-for-family-studies-blog-surveys-by-jean-twenge


America the fat and impotent
http://spectatorworld.com/topic/america-fat-impotent/

[Trenchcoat]

Interesting this swing toward sexual inactivity by (most) males compared to females.
And coupled with idea that many females are having sex with the same male.

This is completing a circle that goes back to earlier mankind and is the norm for most animal species.

i.e. The dominate alpha male in the herd provides (almost) all the sex for (almost) all the females in the herd.

This next part I remember from seeing a PBS special (or somewhere) many years ago and is somewhat fuzzy in my aging brain . . . so others with more specific info can chime in.

This fact of alpha males providing most all the sex carried over to early humans (and those that proceeded).  This, in turn, led to severe fighting among the remaining young men in the tribe whose testosterone was raging.

To settle things down in the tribe, the elders decreed that each man should have only one woman, thus allowing for most every man to have a woman.

Even later, this idea was incorporated into formal marriage in most religions.

Currently with sexual restrictions relaxed for females, the females are leading the way toward reverting back to the behavior of animals wherein the alpha male provides sex for many females.

I think there's something in this ML. The thing is the more the same guys get it all the less the rest are invested in society. In short they lose nothing by sitting back and relaxing while society slides since they got nothing anyway.

Hence why so many guys play video games these days. If they could get with a woman they would particularly a woman they like. They wouldn't be playing video games they would rather be having sex and enjoying being with the woman.

That guys are hooked on computer games rather than women in their early teens onwards suggests that even in early teens guys are realising they aren't getting interest from girls where a few guys are getting plenty. The alternate reality of video games is preferably to lots of pointless fails to other guys who girls flock to.

Added to that, that at the other end there are girls that are making themselves less desirable to guys by becoming fat. So even the ones they might have grudgingly consider now horrify them.

I'm personally surprised that western society is still functioning much at all. I'm guessing a lot of it is getting immigrants in to fill the gaps and getting stuff done abroad and shipped in. I often get the impression that many FSW aren't really aware just what a state western society is in, probably almost completely alien to them.

[Boethius]

This is completing a circle that goes back to earlier mankind and is the norm for most animal species.

i.e. The dominate alpha male in the herd provides (almost) all the sex for (almost) all the females in the herd.

This next part I remember from seeing a PBS special (or somewhere) many years ago and is somewhat fuzzy in my aging brain . . . so others with more specific info can chime in.

This fact of alpha males providing most all the sex carried over to early humans (and those that proceeded).  This, in turn, led to severe fighting among the remaining young men in the tribe whose testosterone was raging.

To settle things down in the tribe, the elders decreed that each man should have only one woman, thus allowing for most every man to have a woman.

Even later, this idea was incorporated into formal marriage in most religions.

Currently with sexual restrictions relaxed for females, the females are leading the way toward reverting back to the behavior of animals wherein the alpha male provides sex for many females.

Well, first, not all animals have "alpha" males. Wolves, for example, don't.  Second, in very ancient times, a so called "alpha" male may have controlled women, but that doesn't mean he fathered all their children.  In fact, he likely did not.  Even among birds that mate for life, up to 70% of the eggs in a nest are fathered by someone other than the bird's mate. 


Who are today's "alpha" males?  IMHO, if one subscribes to such a notion, they are men with money.  It doesn't matter if that's in business (Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates - would either be attractive to women without billion dollar fortunes?). athletics (would athletes have women chasing them if they were making $35,000 a year?), entertainment (a mixed bag, thanks to exceptional physical attractiveness, but a disproportionate number of male movie stars are homosexuals), or politics.  The common denominator is money, preferably, very large amounts of it.

Back in the olden days when I was a young man, the percentage of young men spending hours and hours per week playing video games was nearly zero and internet porn didn't exist.

Is there a correlation between a country’s rate of internet pornography usage and
sexless men?

One of the studies I posted noted that young men who weren't having sex tended to be unemployed/underemployed. 

[Jumper1]

NOTE: I am not making any claims, I just wanted to post a few articles to generate
additional thought and debate.

Back in the olden days when I was a young man, the percentage of young men
spending hours and hours per week playing video games was nearly zero and
internet porn didn't exist.


91 percent of kids are gamers, research says
http://www.cnet.com/home/smart-home/91-percent-of-kids-are-gamers-research-says/


The Association Between Video Gaming and Psychological Functioning
http://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.01731/full


Is there a correlation between a country’s rate of internet pornography usage and
sexless men?

National surveys suggest Americans are having less sex.
Here’s why — or if — it matters to the future
http://www.deseret.com/indepth/2021/3/24/22346585/is-sex-recession-real-or-lasting-institute-for-family-studies-blog-surveys-by-jean-twenge


America the fat and impotent
http://spectatorworld.com/topic/america-fat-impotent/

Those would seem.bigger factors than dating apps.

Add a lot of  youth seem to shun becoming adults anymore,where not so long ago they were all.trying to grow up too quick.

TC, you arnt 20, neither hopefully are the women you are pursuing.
So that dynamic effects layer age groups incredibly less.

In.the end  most women want children and families,  there is still one main way that they do so.
If they are putting it off until later your age still.puts you right smack in the middle of those womens age.

No need to look for excuses and justifications,a decade is long enough.

Get a move on!

[Trenchcoat]

I think another point for considering is that the guy can often end up potentially being unintentionally a Sperm Donor these days. I have done work in areas where there is a high proportion of women who are single Mums. My impression, and it is only my impression, is that a lot of these women are single Mums by choice, the guy is kept at a distance, they pop up occasionally as and when they are allowed. But in general the woman prefers to have the child mostly to herself and of course accommodation with it. This does tend to be more the social housing crowd but of course can be many other women also. The guy at best may be left to hang around so the woman can point and say, 'there's your daddy' and that remain his scope of interest he's allowed with his child. So the woman selfishly protects her interests, that may sound bad but I feel that tends to be how things likely are these days.

[Trenchcoat]

TC, you arnt 20, neither hopefully are the women you are pursuing.
So that dynamic effects layer age groups incredibly less.

In.the end  most women want children and families,  there is still one main way that they do so.
If they are putting it off until later your age still.puts you right smack in the middle of those womens age.

No need to look for excuses and justifications,a decade is long enough.

Get a move on!

There's a girl I know off, young about 20 ish, has a young toddler, her ex is the father but kept at distance by the looks of things. I've seen he he seems ok enough as in not an obvious nutter or difficult/awkward person. Yet she is not with him or any other guy that I can see. She's very pretty, I would guess an easy 8 or so on Photofeeler. She seems to dote on the kid and seems a genuinely nice person. So why there is not some guy with her I don't know? I can only think she likes things that way with things on her own terms.

[Trenchcoat]

Add a lot of  youth seem to shun becoming adults anymore,where not so long ago they were all.trying to grow up too quick.

I think these days a lot of youth are blocked from becoming adults. To some extent this has been going on since I was in my teenage years in the nineties. You need at first a permanent job at least of living means to do much at all. After that is the price of rent and price to buy a house. Then there is the cost of a car and all costs that go with that. If the guy/girl want a child then that can be a cost, benefits exist but living well is another matter.

Odds are fir most youth the jobs aren't present, the housing is too costly. If they have a job it's too temporary and brings in too little. Then even when a steady number may be reached in their twenties the house prices are too high and rent if they choose to rent squeezes all their income. So to conclude they are effectively blocked from doing anything except buy a video game plug in and play.

Contrast that to the 50s, 60s and 70s where a job could be walked straight into and even changed for another that sane day lol. Looking at it that way it's far easier to see how youth could grow up quick and onto excitement back in the day. Video games can be fun but nothing like playing the game of life from an early age, their kind of just a simulation of it for those that are blocked from having a life.

[GQBlues]

I'm not quite sure I'm ready to subscribe to this 'men are having less opportunity to have sex', or 'engage sexually with women'. At the current age of our gender identity culture, how does one define 'men' & 'sex' these days anyway? Or women for that matter? Gender and sex is no longer binary anymore.


Even the fact I'm no longer an available participant, just on ordinary days being out in public and/or social surrounding, I can still very easily 'see' and 'sense' sensual, flirtatious tensions abound in the air at anytime.

[Jumper1]

I think these days a lot of youth are blocked from becoming adults. To some extent this has been going on since I was in my teenage years in the nineties. You need at first a permanent job at least of living means to do much at all. After that is the price of rent and price to buy a house. Then there is the cost of a car and all costs that go with that. If the guy/girl want a child then that can be a cost, benefits exist but living well is another matter.

Odds are fir most youth the jobs aren't present, the housing is too costly. If they have a job it's too temporary and brings in too little. Then even when a steady number may be reached in their twenties the house prices are too high and rent if they choose to rent squeezes all their income. So to conclude they are effectively blocked from doing anything except buy a video game plug in and play.

Contrast that to the 50s, 60s and 70s where a job could be walked straight into and even changed for another that sane day lol. Looking at it that way it's far easier to see how youth could grow up quick and onto excitement back in the day. Video games can be fun but nothing like playing the game of life from an early age, their kind of just a simulation of it for those that are blocked from having a life.

They aren't blocked.
They simply don't have interstate in it.

I've raised an adult son,and watched his peers.

As minor example very few wanted a car, they just din't see the need or have much interest.

They were from families that would have provided them.one,so it isn't about jobs or affordability.

I cant recall anyone in.my youth ,from.any background, that.woldnt have given their teeth for one at any time during those  years of youth.

Im.not saying that it's  a bad thing,  it's just different.

In past history boys were men at 14yo.
That's insane in mental.development standards by any measure ,yet it is how society was and it was accepted and normal.
Kids grew up.fast they had to,regardless if they were developed enough, capable ,or not.

I've zero.problem.with young adults putting off  true adulthood until.later.
Maybe the age of minor should be raised.


In your case ,while I always have encouraged you ,I'm.also pointing out you're well past that age regardless, and so are the women whom.you have the best chance with..., so..
Get a move on!

[Trenchcoat]

They aren't blocked.
They simply don't have interstate in it.

I've raised an adult son,and watched his peers.

As minor example very few wanted a car, they just din't see the need or have much interest.

They were from families that would have provided them.one,so it isn't about jobs or affordability.

I cant recall anyone in.my youth ,from.any background, that.woldnt have given their teeth for one at any time during those  years of youth.

Im.not saying that it's  a bad thing,  it's just different.

In past history boys were men at 14yo.
That's insane in mental.development standards by any measure ,yet it is how society was and it was accepted and normal.
Kids grew up.fast they had to,regardless if they were developed enough, capable ,or not.

I've zero.problem.with young adults putting off  true adulthood until.later.
Maybe the age of minor should be raised.


In your case ,while I always have encouraged you ,I'm.also pointing out you're well past that age regardless, and so are the women whom.you have the best chance with..., so..
Get a move on!

That's very strange about the driving thing, it telling me they are copping out. I think is a sign that doesn't bode well, neither is putting of adulthood wherever you draw the line on that one. I've heard that it's deferred these but I don't think it's good for them, I think it's potentially very bad. I saw a TV program a few years ago it showed these kids where they had deferred adulthood, not just living at home but their parents running after them and still treating them like children, some were in their thirties! Problem is their parents aren't always going to be their and their time is going and time of those that would be interested in them. It's not really being fair in them it's being too kind and not realising it's screwing them up as they have no incentive to get with anyone and develop in life. They are kind of trapped in a teenage time warp which will only be shattered leaving them potentially with nothing in later years.

Thing is back in the day 50s -70s era the man was taught to provide and do technical stuff, the woman domestic stuff and to keep home. The men needed the women to cook food, have kids, look after kids etc, the woman needed the man to provide money, a home, do DIY tasks, etc. The woman needed the man and the man needed to woman. They were left in no uncertain terms that this was the case. While they could subsist alone or with parents it was subsisting, it wasn't a life. Now that's all changed in the west, either sex can live without subsisting. The man might be deficient in cooking but a microwave and careful thinking can sort that, a washing machine, dryer, etc can sort the rest with a bit of use. The internet and learning as you go can fill in any gaps. The woman may be deficient in DIY but there are You Tube video's, tradesmen and some women aren't bad at that stuff occasionally. So both sexes can live without needing the other far more than before. I don't think it's necessarily as good as finding a good partner in most cases but there is far less impulse to find someone to get through life with and make it far more bearable.

[Chelseaboy]

Who are today's "alpha" males?  IMHO, if one subscribes to such a notion, they are men with money.  It doesn't matter if that's in business (Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates - would either be attractive to women without billion dollar fortunes?). athletics (would athletes have women chasing them if they were making $35,000 a year?), entertainment (a mixed bag, thanks to exceptional physical attractiveness, but a disproportionate number of male movie stars are homosexuals), or politics.  The common denominator is money, preferably, very large amounts of it.


One of the studies I posted noted that young men who weren't having sex tended to be unemployed/underemployed.

Yes,as an example ,back in the 80's,when footballers in the UK were earning approx £600 a week,their wives and girlfriends tended to be normal looking girls..with the exception of George Bests's women.


When their wages rocketed up to £100k a week plus,suddenly their wives and girlfriends all look like glamour models....it's all about the money.


Back to my original post,maybe young guys are having relationships with single mums nowadays because those women tend to be more grounded and less prone to gold-digging ?

[Trenchcoat]

Looked up the question of why there are so many single mothers on the internet, this forum site came up with the following answers:

http://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-so-many-single-mothers

I agree with the top voted answer that I think the women prefer government assistance to men. I think the second answer down helps answer this that the men just aren't up to being of any help to the woman's position and/or they find they don't get along, arguments, etc.

My guess is that women may potentially make poor choices like the second answer says that they choose the guy that looks and acts trendy overlooking that while the grubby looking working guy may look poor he likely has more wealth than the guy playing the part until it all falls apart.

I personally see it as personal preference by a lot of women that they prefer to have a child and themselves as a family and aren't that interested in having the guy around. Even if the guy is placid enough and not a total waste of space he probably isn't seen by the time they have the kid or soon after as a good enough quality guy to be worth having around. I personally think it's the women making the personal choice to have their life as a single parent as they feel more happier that way. Even if the guy is interested unless he has something big/decent to contribute he's probably soon sent packing if the woman feels she would be more content with him not living in with her & child.

[Trenchcoat]

Yes,as an example ,back in the 80's,when footballers in the UK were earning approx £600 a week,their wives and girlfriends tended to be normal looking girls..with the exception of George Bests's women.


When their wages rocketed up to £100k a week plus,suddenly their wives and girlfriends all look like glamour models....it's all about the money.


Back to my original post,maybe young guys are having relationships with single mums nowadays because those women tend to be more grounded and less prone to gold-digging ?

Many of the girls on Tinder look like Footballers Wives these days, they really do lol. Fake tans, fake teeth fronts, all glamed up, it's not what I like, a naturally attractive girl far nicer and less of the vibe that they are after a rich guy only need apply intent.

I've got to say there are the occasional few girls that are decent who are single mums, they are devoted to their kids and seem fairly down to earth with good values, some are even quite pretty. I've also seen those with bad attitudes and values and don't seem that bothered about their child. Takes all sorts probably. I still get the impression that sometimes some guys just get with any of these girls as they just want a family even if they are just lodging in someone else's as a turn of phrase. So yeah I think some guys get desperate or just see that us all that is open to them and available.

Now that UC is in I don't know if that will have an effect on it as they generally get a bit less money under it and can only push out 2 or 3 kids before the child benefit drops off on any further kids. My guess it won't cut deep enough to dissuade them from wanting a lifestyle where they are in control of their life as they see it and they can pick up or drop short term relationships with guys as they chose.