Men

[John Gaunt]

Errrr..a single mum with kids IS a family 

As is mum, dad and kids.
 Get my point?

[Chelseaboy]

In our society the guy can be largely done away with. The girl in the UK can get a flat or house from the council/housing associations without needing a guy if they are pregnant.

Get Trench's and my valid point ?

[Boethius]

The fallacy in your argument is that most women don't want to do away with men.  But they don't want to have to live with manchilds, or men who beat them, or cheat on them and bring home STDs.  I doubt rather strongly, that a young woman decides "Oh, I'll get knocked up so that I can become a mother living on benefits for the next two decades."


Isn't it a good thing to provide housing and a minimum of cash to a woman with children?  Would it be better for those children, who are going to grow up and hopefully, become productive members of society, to live on the street?  550 pounds a month, even with housing, is hardly a life of luxury.

[Chelseaboy]

There is no fallacy in my argument.


You however clearly don't live in the real world.


Around 15 years ago my then wife worked in a supermarket as the Restaurant manager.


One of the check-out girls ( a real munter ),had formed a relationship with a young lad working  in that Supermarket who had never even had a date previously.


She got pregnant by him and moved in with him and his  parents.


Once she had the child she was given social housing and dumped him.


Her reasoning to me was "I've got what i want now...a baby a house and i don't need to work in a job i hated anymore....so i no longer need him ".

Your anti-men agenda in your post is clear.

[Boethius]

LOL.  I am not "anti men".  Nevertheless, I could provide you with examples of men who beat women to death, or cheated on them from the time the woman got pregnant, or spent all their money on booze/drugs, leaving their children with no food/clothing.  Providing outlier examples makes for nice stories, but it isn't the reality for the vast majority of people. 

[Chelseaboy]

When our 12 year-old son informed me that my then wife was meeting up with another man she'd met on Facebook behind my back i confronted her and told her exactly what i thought of her and to get out.


Her response was to drive her nails down my chest leaving me looking like Bruce Lee out of Enter the Dragon.


So i went to the Police wanting to know where i stood on Domestic violence and they insisted on seeing what she'd done to me.,,,whereupon they arrested her and told her that for my sons and mine personal safety she was to leave our home...they stayed until she'd packed her bags and left.


I asked said Police whether domestic violence against men was uncommon and their reply was they get more men coming to the police station after being attacked by their women than women.


As for STD''s i have a good friend who was a solicitor....he found out his air hostess wife was cheating on him when she gave him Herpes.


You see.unlike you,i live in the real world..and i know all about cheating and violent women.

[John Gaunt]

I don’t understand WHY you lot are here, on a site dedicated to women, when you obviously have such a deep seated disdain of women.

I think CB is another closet Incel.

[Boethius]

CB, a childhood acquaintance, raped from age 6 by her stepfather, moved out at 17 when she finished high school and supported herself.  She married a man, who beat her regularly.  She died a few years ago, surrounded by her children.

Another woman I know had an alcoholic husband who would disappear for months at a time.  He cheated, he gambled, he was never sober for more than a day.  She once had mobsters appear at her door demanding her husband's gambling debt - $20,000.  She had to ask her father for the money, as her children were threatened.  Oh, but he must have been great - he never beat her (nor she him).  She only left him when their 15 year old son came home from school, and found his father in bed with another woman.

Yet another woman I went to school with was beaten to death by her husband.  He went to jail for seven years (out after 4).  Their children were raised by her parents.

Another woman I know works 2 jobs, has for more than two decades, while her husband sits at home drinking coffee and playing cards. 

I grew up in the inner city.  I was surrounded by poverty.  But I guess because I don't view women (or men, for that matter) all as moochers, I "don't live in the real world."

You don't know my life.  You don't know anything about me other than what I post here.  You don't know what I have seen, what I have lived, or what I've done.  So stop with telling me what I do or don't know. 

[Chelseaboy]

CB, a childhood acquaintance, raped from age 6 by her stepfather, moved out at 17 when she finished high school and supported herself.  She married a man, who beat her regularly.  She died a few years ago, surrounded by her children.

Another woman I know had an alcoholic husband who would disappear for months at a time.  He cheated, he gambled, he was never sober for more than a day.  She once had mobsters appear at her door demanding her husband's gambling debt - $20,000.  She had to ask her father for the money, as her children were threatened.  Oh, but he must have been great - he never beat her (nor she him).  She only left him when their 15 year old son came home from school, and found his father in bed with another woman.

Yet another woman I went to school with was beaten to death by her husband.  He went to jail for seven years (out after 4).  Their children were raised by her parents.

Another woman I know works 2 jobs, has for more than two decades, while her husband sits at home drinking coffee and playing cards. 

I grew up in the inner city.  I was surrounded by poverty.  But I guess because I don't view women (or men, for that matter) all as moochers, I "don't live in the real world."

You don't know my life.  You don't know anything about me other than what I post here.  You don't know what I have seen, what I have lived, or what I've done.  So stop with telling me what I do or don't know.

Here's some real-life for you.


From the office of National Statistics in the UK.


One in three victims of domestic violence are MALE every year ( 757,000 ).


Also.let's not forget many men are too embarrassed to come forward and tell anyone their wife/girlfriend is beating them up.


Everytime you pursue your anti-men agenda on here i'll pull you up on it.


Fact is there are evil men AND women equally.

[Boethius]

I have never claimed men are evil. 


You obviously have reading comprehension issues. 


BTW, most women who are beaten also don't report their abuse.

[John Gaunt]

Get Trench's and my valid point ?

You are trying to present this as the norm, that young women actively get pregnant to jump the housing queue. Some women do but to portray this as widespread based on a few anecdotal accounts is fallacious.

Trench gets his daily dose from the Mirror or Sun so it’s no wonder he is how he is.

My point, which I’ll spell out to you, is that social housing allocation is based on need so families with children, whether they consist of two parents plus children or a single mother with a child/children or a single dad with child/children, will always get housing priority.

I struggle to understand your antipathy to women and yet, here you are, on a board dedicated to finding Russian women.

[Trenchcoat]

For the majority of young men it is objectively harder for them to have sex than in the past. For the most desirable of men it is much easier; dating apps are like UberEats for sex. So it may be easier for you but worse for average men.

Young women are far more selective. There's a rise of sugar daddy relationships in the West which reduces the pool for younger men. Dating is also less localised, which means women can select from suitors from anywhere in the world if their suitors have the financial means - through social media and smart phones. Technology has transformed the dating market as much as it has transformed commercial markets.

Young men are getting less sex. Contrary to what Boe thinks, young men still want sex. For some the only access is single mothers.

The 'in my day' line is frivolous. The courtship years of my grandparents are incomparable to that of the current generation. It's a different culture now. Women in their 20s have always lived with smart phones and social media... and have been shaped by them. They receive an artificial sense of attention that modifies their mate selection.

The game has changed. If you have teenage children you should be very concerned about their social media usage, particularly for girls. Facebook, the owner of Instagram, are well aware of the issues: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2021/10/05/heres-how-instagram-harms-young-women-according-to-research/?sh=3f0794a5255a

Culture has changed due to technology.

Going back to this I think it's a good pictogram of how things are, roughly. The women all think they can date up, up, up, that they are worth so much more. I'm not even sure if they can self reflect and see that the guys they are turning down are much the same as they are. I think online dating has made it easier for women to access men, social media too. A girl can show interest in one of the guys she like at the top of the social spectrum and later that night she is being used for sex by the guy, ditched the following morning and then back into the dating pool to be used for sex by another guy at the top of the social spectrum who she shows interest in. Some guys knowing they can land girls easy can even go around messaging these girls and get it easy. The girl probably isn't too put out as she'll think at least she had sex with a top guy. It would be a bit like hot girls messaging me and wanting to hook up, even if just for the night it would be grand Obviously a few girls will be upset that they got used for sex when they hoped for more but they'll get over it moreso when the next guy comes knocking. So online dating where the average guy thought he would finally get a look in has actually made things worse.

Back in the day the girl would either have to approach a hot guy which few felt confident enough to do or he would approach them, occasionally this would happen but not loads since the guy may have had a known girlfriend or he didn't wish to be associated with going with a lesser girl. Now though it can be done a lot more on the quiet so often no one gets to know. It can be with a girl just outside the area, etc. A bit like when a guy tells a FSW he is flying back the next day, she thinks great I can have sex this this guy if she is up for it in the slightest and no one will likely find out.

So the dating game has changed and for most guys not for the better. Back in the noughties and before it used to be a case of the guy having to ask the girl out, most of the time. A good looking guy the girl would likely make it easy or even ask the guy themselves, possibly a wealthy guy also. But a regular most guys found including myself was any half decent girl coming out with the, 'my boyfriend' phrase. That made it a lot harder to impossible and a lot of guys gave up hope upon hearing that phrase from a girl. So I wouldn't say it was ever that easy for an average guy but now it's a lot harder I think. Most average guys if they are to stand any much chance at all and aren't rich have to go for girls that are ugly, fat or both to stand a chance with a girl. I even wonder if there is more of a split happening between the beautiful people at one end and the ugly at the other so possibly in future we could see less everyday average looking people in the middle and more extremes at either end. The You Tube video Davo out up a while back was good I think with the social experiment in the nightclub the ugly girls in it ended up ignoring the average looking dude next to them as they all hoped on the good looking guy that went away to the bar and never came back and of course was never going to.

So I think its easier to send from this why sone guys are so desperate to go for girls with kids. Fir most guys it's still a negative picking up after some other guys sex life but it means that it's a negative that can help balance the equation so the lesser guys get a look in. Other than that is going abroad to the FSU and elsewhere, some guys can't do that so only the local girls are an option, they don't have the money, they rent, possibly on benefit, possibly no passport, etc. Fir us guys that are everyday looking and aren't that keen on bringing up someone else's kid it offers a lot better dating environment than at home. We go out there and we become in the top spectrum of guts because of our wealth or perceived wealth and can date a lot more easily and better. So as I've found though it's not necessarily perfect it's still way better than dating at home.

[John Gaunt]

Going back to this I think it's a good pictogram of how things are, roughly. The women all think they can date up, up, up, that they are worth so much more. I'm not even sure if they can self reflect and see that the guys they are turning down are much the same as they are. I think online dating has made it easier for women to access men, social media too. A girl can show interest in one of the guys she like at the top of the social spectrum and later that night she is being used for sex by the guy, ditched the following morning and then back into the dating pool to be used for sex by another guy at the top of the social spectrum who she shows interest in. Some guys knowing they can land girls easy can even go around messaging these girls and get it easy. The girl probably isn't too put out as she'll think at least she had sex with a top guy. It would be a bit like hot girls messaging me and wanting to hook up, even if just for the night it would be grand Obviously a few girls will be upset that they got used for sex when they hoped for more but they'll get over it moreso when the next guy comes knocking. So online dating where the average guy thought he would finally get a look in has actually made things worse.

Back in the day the girl would either have to approach a hot guy which few felt confident enough to do or he would approach them, occasionally this would happen but not loads since the guy may have had a known girlfriend or he didn't wish to be associated with going with a lesser girl. Now though it can be done a lot more on the quiet so often no one gets to know. It can be with a girl just outside the area, etc. A bit like when a guy tells a FSW he is flying back the next day, she thinks great I can have sex this this guy if she is up for it in the slightest and no one will likely find out.

So the dating game has changed and for most guys not for the better. Back in the noughties and before it used to be a case of the guy having to ask the girl out, most of the time. A good looking guy the girl would likely make it easy or even ask the guy themselves, possibly a wealthy guy also. But a regular most guys found including myself was any half decent girl coming out with the, 'my boyfriend' phrase. That made it a lot harder to impossible and a lot of guys gave up hope upon hearing that phrase from a girl. So I wouldn't say it was ever that easy for an average guy but now it's a lot harder I think. Most average guys if they are to stand any much chance at all and aren't rich have to go for girls that are ugly, fat or both to stand a chance with a girl. I even wonder if there is more of a split happening between the beautiful people at one end and the ugly at the other so possibly in future we could see less everyday average looking people in the middle and more extremes at either end. The You Tube video Davo out up a while back was good I think with the social experiment in the nightclub the ugly girls in it ended up ignoring the average looking dude next to them as they all hoped on the good looking guy that went away to the bar and never came back and of course was never going to.

So I think its easier to send from this why sone guys are so desperate to go for girls with kids. Fir most guys it's still a negative picking up after some other guys sex life but it means that it's a negative that can help balance the equation so the lesser guys get a look in. Other than that is going abroad to the FSU and elsewhere, some guys can't do that so only the local girls are an option, they don't have the money, they rent, possibly on benefit, possibly no passport, etc. Fir us guys that are everyday looking and aren't that keen on bringing up someone else's kid it offers a lot better dating environment than at home. We go out there and we become in the top spectrum of guts because of our wealth or perceived wealth and can date a lot more easily and better. So as I've found though it's not necessarily perfect it's still way better than dating at home.

Complete and utter bollocks.

Just more of the same from you, Trench.

If you think average, you’ll be condemned to be average.

I don’t think any of us blokes here are in any way extraordinary looking fellas or rolling in dosh, although probably fairly high earners.
What we are, I dare say, are confident men who have lived a little, seen the world from different perspectives and see our worth in different terms than just money or looks.
 
You think it’s all about money and looks.

[Trenchcoat]

Complete and utter bollocks.

Just more of the same from you, Trench.

If you think average, you’ll be condemned to be average.

I don’t think any of us blokes here are in any way extraordinary looking fellas or rolling in dosh, although probably fairly high earners.
What we are, I dare say, are confident men who have lived a little, seen the world from different perspectives and see our worth in different terms than just money or looks.
 
You think it’s all about money and looks.

Let's take your case then Gaunty. You have your own business, earn ok from it and have your own house. In addition you live in the UK, a safe comfortable country for the most part minus any issues here or there, in fact one of the wealthiest countries in the world. It suffers not too badly from weather, volcanoes or earthquakes, etc.

Your wife meanwhile is from Ukraine, a dirt poor country, second poorest country in Europe I believe being beaten only to the top spot by Moldova. So your wife being from that background is no doubt trading up in terms of getting with you no less, you see.

[Trenchcoat]

Put it this way as our Boe has said to me a couple of times on here, "You're in the West you've already won" in terms of the lottery as to where people are born. I agree it's one of the few things I have been fortunate in, that one thing scores as a big positive for me when I go to Ukraine and for every WM. Back in my own country I may not have any big positives at all to attract women just perhaps a few small positives along with a few negatives. Many guys will be the same, most guys are everyday average looks of no great wealth in their own country wherever you go.

[John Gaunt]

Let's take your case then Gaunty. You have your own business, earn ok from it and have your own house. In addition you live in the UK, a safe comfortable country for the most part minus any issues here or there, in fact one of the wealthiest countries in the world. It suffers not too badly from weather, volcanoes or earthquakes, etc.

Wrong on so many counts

Your wife meanwhile is from Ukraine, a dirt poor country, second poorest country in Europe I believe being beaten only to the top spot by Moldova.
So your wife being from that background is no doubt trading up in terms of getting with you no less, you see.

I could have married someone from any country in the world.  The fact that my wife happened to be from Ukraine has no bearing at all.

Unlike you, I don’t and didn’t think in terms of levering my economic advantage when I courted my wife. It wouldn’t have made any difference.
We married because we formed a relationship based on mutual respect, shared values and because we felt something for each other, not because she was checking out my bank balances.
She wouldn’t have married me if she wasn’t happy with the person I am and vice versus.

I’ve had relationships with women from many countries, Trench. None of them were about money or how rich or poor our countries were.

[Jumper1]

Put it this way as our Boe has said to me a couple of times on here, "You're in the West you've already won" in terms of the lottery as to where people are born. I agree it's one of the few things I have been fortunate in, that one thing scores as a big positive for me when I go to Ukraine and for every WM. Back in my own country I may not have any big positives at all to attract women just perhaps a few small positives along with a few negatives. Many guys will be the same, most guys are everyday average looks of no great wealth in their own country wherever you go.

TC, sure economics can play a part in intial.meeting or interest.
Yet if it plays a big part in the actual relstionship it likely isnt healthy reggardless.

And the key yiu kerpmskipping over is the average  adult man is married with children.

So it's back full circle that none of the material things you deem.as negatives at home or positives if you travel,
effected them.
They met women, got
married and had families.
Their marriages on average last as long as anywhere else in your scope of searching.

So with nothing really special going for them on the economic or appearance fronts,they still find a partner.

This dwelling on  material aspect of relationships is not helping you.

Is it a factor? Sure.
Would you even want it to be a big factor?
Hopefully not,so why dwell on it, recognizing it  exists in some degree is a good thing,over emphasizing it or using it as an excuse is unhealthy.

Lots of men here,myself included have had various points in life where they had more, or less, to offer in that area.
Odds are great they had a woman in their  lifes regardless the finacial situation.

Certainly to your point there were also times in their life they may have  had more,or less,interest from women,but that ultimately dint change that they had relationships regardless overall interest levels.

You have a pile of baggage you need to shrug off.
You also need to ditch  all the crutches.
Yiu can only use two crutches at most, so at least get rid of the other 300 you seem to keep in the attic.

Any woman you meet with  a tenth of the bagged you carry would scare off most men.
You absolutely need to recognize that and get rid if your own,whether that takes professional help or self awareness.
I dont have all the answers , but the
first  key is yourself.
Ten years later its still the main thing to address.
I still always wish you the best

[Trenchcoat]

Yes I know people get to know each other and get comfortable with each other and that is reassuring to both. I'm not saying every guy is either wealthy or not, there is of course all sorts in between. There are guys who are everyday looking, average wealth with good social skills, maybe a happy or comical persona, maybe at ease in casual conversation, etc. All of that counts, what I'm saying is that at large most guys go to the FSU as it's easier dating than at home. Sure it's a different culture that can bring it's own problems but if a guy can learn about the issues that can crop up and deal with them or has a personality that works well with that culture then he'll be ahead of many other guys. Most newbies to FSU dating flail around and mess up on their first few outings out there, I did. Those that stick around, learn about what went wrong, learn stuff on here and elsewhere they can do better in the long run. I could probably go out there now and do quite well. I could likely fairly easily find a woman to marry our there. Finding one I want and one where the marriage lasts a reasonable distance is another matter of course. I don't have a load of crutches or whatever, I know what initially turns women on and off, and yes a FSW who doesn't get a good impression that you are earning well will turn many of them off. Over time though many of these girls if they stay with the guy long enough will see that reality and the company of the guy more something they become content with and the silly vision they had of a real rich guy sweeping them off their feet was just Hollywood fairy tale bs. So long as the guy hasn't pretended to be something he is not or stated she will enjoy a way of life he can't deliver of course.

[John Gaunt]

Yes I know people get to know each other and get comfortable with each other and that is reassuring to both. I'm not saying every guy is either wealthy or not, there is of course all sorts in between. There are guys who are everyday looking, average wealth with good social skills, maybe a happy or comical persona, maybe at ease in casual conversation, etc. All of that counts, what I'm saying is that at large most guys go to the FSU as it's easier dating than at home. Sure it's a different culture that can bring it's own problems but if a guy can learn about the issues that can crop up and deal with them or has a personality that works well with that culture then he'll be ahead of many other guys. Most newbies to FSU dating flail around and mess up on their first few outings out there, I did. Those that stick around, learn about what went wrong, learn stuff on here and elsewhere they can do better in the long run. I could probably go out there now and do quite well. I could likely fairly easily find a woman to marry our there. Finding one I want and one where the marriage lasts a reasonable distance is another matter of course. I don't have a load of crutches or whatever, I know what initially turns women on and off, and yes a FSW who doesn't get a good impression that you are earning well will turn many of them off. Over time though many of these girls if they stay with the guy long enough will see that reality and the company of the guy more something they become content with and the silly vision they had of a real rich guy sweeping them off their feet was just Hollywood fairy tale bs. So long as the guy hasn't pretended to be something he is not or stated she will enjoy a way of life he can't deliver of course.

Trenchs usual blah blah blah.

Trench, I’m sitting in Abu Dhabi airport laughing my socks off at the rubbish you post.
🤣🤣🤣

[Chelseaboy]

I have never claimed men are evil. 


You obviously have reading comprehension issues. 


BTW, most women who are beaten also don't report their abuse.

I didn't say you had.


Seems it's you that has reading comprehension issues.


I see another woman has been found out not to be so pleasant.....Ghislaine Maxwell,

[Boethius]

I suggest you go back and read your posts.  It is you, not me, with reading comprehension issues.

I don't think Ghislaine Maxwell is "evil".  I think she was raised to value only people of wealth/power and what they could do for her.  She has that disdain for mere mortals that people of wealth/former wealth often exhibit.  None of the non East European girls who were sex slaves were forced into those roles by Maxwell/Epstein.  Yes, they were trafficked, and yes, that is morally wrong.  However, I don't view those young women as helpless victims.  What Ghislaine Maxwell did is not really so different from what many WM do in going to the FSU to find women of reduced economic means. 

As for whether men or women are more evil, I think it's about equal.  However, men have more opportunities, for a variety of reasons, to act out their evil intentions.

[Trenchcoat]

I suggest you go back and read your posts.  It is you, not me, with reading comprehension issues.

I don't think Ghislaine Maxwell is "evil".  I think she was raised to value only people of wealth/power and what they could do for her.  She has that disdain for mere mortals that people of wealth/former wealth often exhibit.  None of the non East European girls who were sex slaves were forced into those roles by Maxwell/Epstein.  Yes, they were trafficked, and yes, that is morally wrong.  However, I don't view those young women as helpless victims.  What Ghislaine Maxwell did is not really so different from what many WM do in going to the FSU to find women of reduced economic means. 

As for whether men or women are more evil, I think it's about equal.  However, men have more opportunities, for a variety of reasons, to act out their evil intentions.

I actually agree with that, I'm not aware if there were East European women that they were using though but have only followed the case on Netflix What strikes me was the idiocy of how they went about what they were doing. They could have easily have done what they were doing in different states and been legally in the clear in most cases, say Philadelphia instead of New York and South Carolina instead of Florida where the legal age of consent is 16. If they wanted to go younger than that they could have gone to Germany which I was surprised to learn that the legal age of consent is 14!!!

So in effect Ghislaine is very likely to get a high tariff for the sake of carrying on their activities in the wrong location. Odds are she would have far fewer cases against her and hence a lower tariff if they had taken place in places with lower ages of consent since many of the girls were only a year or so under, i.e 16, 17. Indeed they might have attracted a lot less attention if there were not so many cases that could be stuck to them so readily.

I personally thought when watching the Netflix documentary on it that Epstein was silly not to be in a lower age consent state or go off and do it in Ukraine, etc if that was his thing in life. No doubt he thought he was above the law and his wealth and powerful connections would get him off. He apparently thought age consent laws were an 'aberation' but that of course counts for nothing when being subjected by them. Ukraine of course would have probably worked well for someone like him where the age of consent is 16 and there his money and power would do the talking. I personally am not interested in women that young but it seemed foolish to me that he did his activities in a country where feminism is rampant and just salivating to munch into another man seen as behaving badly.

From the documentary to my mind the only girl who seemed to be unfairly coerced was the art girl. The other girls all seemed to willingly be up for it through their own free will only to complain of their lot many years later. So while I'm not saying that all what they did was right it seems to me (and I usually have little sympathy for the rich) in all reasonableness that both Epstein, Maxwell, etc have been demonised far beyond their actions it wasn't as if these girls were reap young girls or anything most seemed to be mid to late teens who were probably very frisky and up for it at the time but just happened to be a year or so too young for the state they were in.

[Boethius]

The age of the women doesn't matter, because they were trafficked. 


I think for Epstein, it was about control, not sex.  I happen to think that both Epstein and Maxwell deserve villification.  I just don't think their "victims" were all truly victims. 

[Trenchcoat]

The age of the women doesn't matter, because they were trafficked. 


I think for Epstein, it was about control, not sex.  I happen to think that both Epstein and Maxwell deserve villification.  I just don't think their "victims" were all truly victims.

I think the term of being 'trafficked' potentially becomes a difficult one here. If a 'sex trafficker' trafficks a girl into other countries for the purpose of sex it's an easy one but if a girl is picked up, given a taxi ride, etc to meet someone is that trafficked or just a date? a gentlemanly courteousey? In future all guys that go to pick up their girl for a date and later have sex with them could be accused of sex trafficking their girl lol.

[Boethius]

Trafficking has a particular meaning in law. Epstein was jailed once, though punished lightly, for trafficking women, and was facing additional charges when he died.  Maxwell was convicted of trafficking women.  It's basically offering up women for sex to others.  It doesn't matter whether or not the trafficking victim ostensibly consents.