Is this the start of WW3 ?

[Chelseaboy]

With Putin threatening any country that hinders his invasion of Ukraine and then raising the spectre of Nuclear weapons and Lavrov making bullish comments today about changing western security..are we moving toward WW3 ?


Plenty of Ukrainians believe we are..from people being talked to in Ukraine to a journalist telling Boris Johnson today we're already in it.


Just hearing Belarus troops have now invaded Ukraine too.

[fathertime]

Plenty of Ukrainians believe we are..from people being talked to in Ukraine to a journalist telling Boris Johnson today we're already in it.

To the Ukrainians this is WWIII, but not necessarily for the planet.   It's an important battle for Ukrainians, and people who care about them, but that is a very small minority of the world.   Mexicans are still drinking their Pepsi, and plowing their farms, Costa Ricans are still sunning themselves at the beach, Filipinos are still taking their kids to school, Angolans are still dancing in the street selling their wares.   Completely disinterested in a conflict like this, so WWIII it shouldn't turn into.   

With Putin raising the spectre of Nuclear weapons and Lavrov making bullish comments today about changing western security..are we moving toward WW3 ?

When nuclear weapons are used it is "Game Over".  We are going to ultimately going to have to let Russia do what it has to do.  Not because we like it, but because the stakes are too high given what the 'prize' is.   There are red lines where action would have to be taken, but Ukraine is not one of those red lines.   If you look at what the result of this likely will be, Ukraine will come at a huge cost for Russia.  They wind up with rebellious Ukraine (In some form).  Russia has lost their economy; several formally neutral states join NATO or band against them, they lose military members, and are now spending their time occupying an unhappy populace. 

The US didn't suffer very many of these types of consequences with it's invasions and 'helpful interventions' over the past decades. 

Fathertime! 

[Trenchcoat]

Ukrainians are trying to push the idea that we would be next, but that's just to get military help it is not necessarily true, likely highly unlikely. If anyone Putin goes after next it will be Georgia, the Stans basically the easy targets. He wants the illusion of a Russian Empire back not world domination or annihilation.

We basically need to stay out of this to avoid WWIII. Military aid, food supplies, sanctions, etc fine but we should avoid direct military intervention including no fly zones etc.

Boris was echoing the same today so we at the moment at least seem to have a good take on this from the UK government. I think it's important that Zelensky isn't allowed to rush the EU, NATO, etc into direct military intervention as a result of the current euphoria he enjoys.

[Jumper1]

Well there's old Putin in charge fur decades, and then this senile old goat in the mix too.
A total wacko in North Korea as well.
Unease in Tawain,etc
A global pandemic  that slowed economies and crippliedclogistics world wide.
Pretty unprecedented stuff that can. tip  things and embroil nations in war.
I mean you had a major and fairly serious large  protest in Canada, umm  may I say that again Canada of all places.
Very troubled times.

Perhaps our great overlords in all locations have been due a reminder of what happens when the general.populace is no longer apathetic.They need not dig into history much to get the point .

[John Gaunt]

Ukrainians are trying to push the idea that we would be next, but that's just to get military help it is not necessarily true, likely highly unlikely. If anyone Putin goes after next it will be Georgia, the Stans basically the easy targets. He wants the illusion of a Russian Empire back not world domination or annihilation.

We basically need to stay out of this to avoid WWIII. Military aid, food supplies, sanctions, etc fine but we should avoid direct military intervention including no fly zones etc.

Boris was echoing the same today so we at the moment at least seem to have a good take on this from the UK government. I think it's important that Zelensky isn't allowed to rush the EU, NATO, etc into direct military intervention as a result of the current euphoria he enjoys.

Trench madly banging the drum that Ukraine shouldn’t be admitted into the EU.

I wonder, would it have something to do with his own self interest as the local hotties might not need his pennies or visa anymore when the whole of the EU would be an open door.
No more ‘economic advantage for you Trench!! Not that you ever had any.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench madly banging the drum that Ukraine shouldn’t be admitted into the EU.

I wonder, would it have something to do with his own self interest as the local hotties might not need his pennies or visa anymore when the whole of the EU would be an open door.
No more ‘economic advantage for you Trench!! Not that you ever had any.

The EU does unfortunately make every place a boring place to be with little difference to any other EU Member state. Ukraine and Ukrainian people have their own vibe don't let the EU take that away from them. I don't think Ukrainains realise that the EU is just another external government that wishes to take away their sovereignty but by different means than the Russians. The EU is just as power hungry as the Russians, once a member beneath all the veneer of the EU that is what they will come to find. Once a member, the EU will start telling Ukraine what it will do and it will be in the EU's interest of grasping power from Ukraine to the EU will be what it amounts to.

[Stirlitz]

This is NOT the start of WWIII for a simple and obvious reason. For a world war, we need two sets of allies fighting each other around the world. Here we only have Russia. We don’t count Belarus which is de facto part of Russia and Russia's silent allies like China (who can at any moment become its enemies).

And Russia is, err, a tad too weak to fight against the entire world. They cannot even overcome Ukraine.

So there is no world war in sight.

But it is indeed a world war in terms of a war declared by Russia against the entire free world. A war against humanity. The Russians are DELIBERATELY targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure. They are keeping civilians hostages not lettting them get out of fighting zones. They commit atrocities shooting civilian cars, ambulances, journalists, the Red Cross buildings and convoys. They bomb hospitals, maternity homes, kindergartens, residential blocks. Not to mention robberies, looting, raping, summary executions.

We basically need to stay out of this to avoid WWIII. Military aid, food supplies, sanctions, etc fine but we should avoid direct military intervention including no fly zones etc.

A few hours ago the Nazis destroyed a maternity hospital In Mariupol along with the staff and patients including new-born babies, women in labor... It is a miracle that no one was killed as they had been notified of the attack and managed to get ready for it. Although some were wounded.


From now on I am going to consider the Western governments Pootin's accomplices unless they act right now.

[Jumper1]

I don't think they will take military action of any kind ,including a no fly zone.

Having been sent to middle east conflict for far less important reasons  it sickens me overall.
I'm sorry Igor.

[Jumper1]

On a better note , my B-I-L in Mykolaev told me they are turning away volunteers
 as they have too many men already.
Also that Ukrainians retook control of the airport.
He could go to family in a village but is  staying put to fight if need be.
Ukrainian unity is inspiring.

[Stirlitz]

I don't think they will take military action of any kind ,including a no fly zone.

So, accomplices. The deaths are on them too.

Having been sent to middle east conflict for far less important reasons  it sickens me overall.I'm sorry Igor.

Thank you.


Then we need rockets, fighter jets, ammo, weapons. A LOT OF THAT. ASAP. NOW!!!

[Jumper1]

Absolutely,  and I do think some of this  is coming from.a lot of western sources , I hope it's quick enough.

 

[Trenchcoat]

This is NOT the start of WWIII for a simple and obvious reason. For a world war, we need two sets of allies fighting each other around the world. Here we only have Russia. We don’t count Belarus which is de facto part of Russia and Russia's silent allies like China (who can at any moment become its enemies).

And Russia is, err, a tad too weak to fight against the entire world. They cannot even overcome Ukraine.

So there is no world war in sight.

But it is indeed a world war in terms of a war declared by Russia against the entire free world. A war against humanity. The Russians are DELIBERATELY targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure. They are keeping civilians hostages not lettting them get out of fighting zones. They commit atrocities shooting civilian cars, ambulances, journalists, the Red Cross buildings and convoys. They bomb hospitals, maternity homes, kindergartens, residential blocks. Not to mention robberies, looting, raping, summary executions.
A few hours ago the Nazis destroyed a maternity hospital In Mariupol along with the staff and patients including new-born babies, women in labor... It is a miracle that no one was killed as they had been notified of the attack and managed to get ready for it. Although some were wounded.


From now on I am going to consider the Western governments Pootin's accomplices unless they act right now.

All what you say is true, what Putin/Russians are doing is very nasty and horrible way to treat Ukrainians and anyone else caught in the crossfire. I believe they have made a clumsy Invasion and as such it's descended into a lot of bloodshed and atrocities that needn't have happened if they were organised and swift.

Aside from what you mention the main thing is you've missed is that Russia has Nukes, thousands of them and way more powerful than those dropped on Japan during WWII. So while Nazi Germany's WWII Invasion of Europe is leaving present day Russia's attempt in the dust the crucial difference is Russia has Nukes and not just Nukes but also Chemical and Hyperthermal missiles.

While I think Putin is probably wanting to come across as unhinged enough to use them but may not I personally for one wouldn't care to take the gamble. Matters can quickly on and get more out of hand than intended to start with. Ukraine is not a wealthy or resource rich country, even if Putin takes over and incorporates Ukraine into Russia he won't be a stronger force to deal with, likely a weaker from a wreaked economy in both Russia and likely moreso in Ukraine. If a lot of Russia's army is taken out then that's going to be very expensive to replace, money Putin won't likely have. As painful as what is going on is spreading the suffering to all Europe through a Nuclear war would be an even worse fate.

[Jumper1]

So TC, the deal  then is where is the line?
If the *threat to use nukes*works to stop direct interference,
then what keeps Moldova safe?
we already know they lost Transnistia in 92.  Russian 14th battalion is still there!

Is Moldova OK to sacrifice?
Czech ? Estonia, latvia,Poland?

You are going to say NATO ironically  but if push comes to shove   if putin tests that resolve?

We can see  that ANY guarantees by Putin are absolutely worthless.

 Our own arnt worth the ink used to write them,obviously.

[Trenchcoat]

So TC, the deal  then is where is the line?
If the *threat to use nukes*works to stop direct interference,
then what keeps Moldova safe?
we already know they lost Transnistia in 92.  Russian 14th battalion is still there!

Is Moldova OK to sacrifice?
Czech ? Estonia, latvia,Poland?

You are going to say NATO ironically  but if push comes to shove   if putin tests that resolve?

We can see  that ANY guarantees by Putin are absolutely worthless.

 Our own arnt worth the ink used to write them,obviously.

The answer basically is NATO, if Putin/Russia attacked NATO they know that a resulting endgame could very well end up in Nukes being used. Usually that is most likely to happen when one side is losing and advancing forces are striking towards their Capital city/Nuclear Missile sites. At that point the Advancing enemy is likely to be told to halt before a specific line or Nuclear Missiles will be fired, similar to the Cuban Missile Crises. I've no doubt that odds on Nukes would be fired by either side rather than it all fall to the Enemy. For the Enemy that is usually seen as too great a risk to take, they then have to come to terms and odds are it means attacking a nuclear weapons power would be pretty pointless. The same goes for if we intervene militarily in Ukraine and attack Russia. The point comes at which point will they fire their Nukes. The danger is that a losing and frustrated leader can behave particularly irrational, moreso if they feel that they have been fighting against the odds. So Putin may start responding with Nukes, etc from a much sooner point in the intervention.

If however the Russian economy collapses, Russian soldiers freeze, get routed, throw in the towel, a coup or similar then Putin/Russia has no other choice than to accept that they failed not as a result of NATO and so have to sort out the mess on their own terms. A better way for it to be resolved in my opinion.

[Admin]

So, accomplices. The deaths are on them too.

Thank you.


Then we need rockets, fighter jets, ammo, weapons. A LOT OF THAT. ASAP. NOW!!!

I've read that 17 transport flights are landing daily at a secret airfield in/near Ukraine. These flights contain primarily arms and munitions to aid Ukraine in defending against Russia, including anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons and missiles.

Hopefully Poland's fighter jets will get to Ukraine. Fear over Russian response and their nuclear arsenal has prevented the transfer thus far, unfortunately.

While there is a lot being done by concerned peoples from many countries around the world, the reality is it is not enough. Ukraine needs more. Ukrainian courage and love of freedom being shown as lessons to the free world is having an effect. Words on an internet forum mean nothing. Inspiring actions by our readers is needed. Action to influence politicians. Action to influence businesses. Actions to provide support in any way each person is able.


Igor, you have my sincere admiration. You and your friends and neighbors and family who are staring down this gigantic bear. I wish my words on an internet forum was more helpful. I wish you safety and I wish you VICTORY!

[2tallbill]

This is NOT the start of WWIII for a simple and obvious reason. For a world war, we need two sets of allies fighting each other around the world. Here we only have Russia. We don’t count Belarus which is de facto part of Russia and Russia's silent allies like China (who can at any moment become its enemies).

And Russia is, err, a tad too weak to fight against the entire world. They cannot even overcome Ukraine.

So there is no world war in sight.

I am so glad to see you posting here.

I am only debating this point tongue in cheek.

Today with the internet things seem instantaneous. The beginning might not
seem like the beginning sometimes. I doubt that in June of 1914 that Archduke
Franz Ferdinand's death seemed like the beginning, 11 months later the Lusitania
sinks.

From now on I am going to consider the Western governments Pootin's accomplices unless they act right now.

It really depends on what you consider acting. Congress today agreed to spend
$34 billion on Ukraines behalf. Ukraines military budget is just under 6 billion per
year. Some of the money goes to countries like Czek and Poland to pay for their
planes to give to Ukraine. Other money is probably going to get wasted. Hopefully
most of it goes to benefit your country.

I appreciate your positive, "can do" attitude. I really truly wish you
success and I will pray for your safety.

Udachi!

Bill

[Stirlitz]

Update: three people did actually die after this mean attack on the hospital. Including a baby girl.

It really depends on what you consider acting.

Whatever it takes to stop such atrocities. I am not a professional but I am sure that those in Pentagon know what to do and CAN. The bottom line is CHILDREN MUST NOT DIE, at any costs.

It’s probably because it is not their children who are dying. Otherwise I know they would have acted. But as a human I believe in matters like this there are no someone else’s children. It is the humankind that is not going to survive if we let things like this happen in the 21st century, not an individual family or even a nation. Someone has to realize that.

Igor, you have my sincere admiration. You and your friends and neighbors and family who are staring down this gigantic bear. I wish my words on an internet forum was more helpful. I wish you safety and I wish you VICTORY!

Thank YOU!!!