2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)

[GQBlues]

MAGA!!! 4 More Years! 4 More Years!!

[BillyB]

Billy,

just google 'portland protests'  It is full of protesters wearing masks.  In fact, just guessing at the very least half of protestors wear them.

They are also wearing hard hats, bicycle helmets and goggles. Why are they different from the Oklahoma protestors? Because Portland protestors are violent and they need protection, not from COVID-19 but from the tear gas canisters thrown at them, protection from breathing the pepper spray, and to cushion the blow of the rubber bullets. You also notice the authorities in Portland wear masks, goggles and helmets compared to the authorities in Oklahoma.

Your Pew Research chart doesn't tell the whole story. Most conservatives live in small town USA where there is not problem with COVID-19 while most of the liberals live in high density cities where they get it worse and the fear the virus more. If COVID-19 hit small towns hard like it did NYC and left big cities alone, your chart would be flip flopped.

[Gator]

The virus is not the monster.  We are, - morphed into one by our own selfishness. 

Bull crap!  Election rhetoric - all part of a widespread political and media campaign to frighten voters.   

Individual choices largely determine whether one becomes infected.

The number of new positive cases is increasing, yet hospitalizations and deaths are not keeping pace.  The lower death rates do not fit the Democrats' scare tactics.

Don't take me wrong - thousand of people people are still dying, and its sad. 

Sometimes death comes quickly in otherwise normal people.  My ER doctor friend yesterday told me of such a case.

              -  Last week, he diagnosed a 45-yo male visit to the ER.  Minor symptoms, clear lung X-ray, sent home, awaiting results of the COVID test. 

             -  Three days later, my friend was working when the same 45-yo returned with major symptoms.  Positive test, X-ray showing infection., admitted to the COVID ward. 

             -  Three days after admission, the patient died.

Six days from minor symptoms to death. The mystery is why this person and not another.   Yes, this virus is a monster and taking the lives of fathers and mothers.  Be safe!

[BC]

Bull crap!  Election rhetoric - all part of a widespread political and media campaign to frighten voters.

These are my own thoughts and words Gator.

 

Individual choices largely determine whether one becomes infected.

Indeed, if there are folks around me not wearing masks, MY risk of infection is higher.

The number of new positive cases is increasing, yet hospitalizations and deaths are not keeping pace.  The lower death rates do not fit the Democrats' scare tactics.

Has Florida not experienced weeks of record infections and deaths?  Is the 7 day moving average for deaths average not going up and up still?

[BC]

 Election rhetoric - all part of a widespread political and media campaign to frighten voters.   

Do you mean like Trump's defund police campaign add where the old woman dials 911?

[msmob]

Like I said...internet losers.

http://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

Contact page, baby. Anytime.

Someone (who should know better than to post stuff without checking )  is still 'at it' and suggesting outlier snake-oil doctors/ 'research'  / 'clinical trials' ( not )- have 'validity' ...

[GQBlues]

Contact page baby..or STFU. Your choice.

Here it is again: http://www.henryford.com/about/contact

[msmob]

'Outliers' v FDA..

http://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

"June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19. As a result, we determined that the legal criteria for the EUA are no longer met. Please refer to the Revocation of the EUA Letter and FAQs on the Revocation of the EUA for Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate and Chloroquine Phosphate for more information."

[GQBlues]

Deflection. Try again.

Contact Page:  http://www.henryford.com/about/contact

Come back and tell us what the result is. Otherwise, STFU.

[msmob]

Deflection. Try again.

Contact Page:  http://www.henryford.com/about/contact

Come back and tell us what the result is. Otherwise, STFU.

GQB is busted and claims I'm 'deflecting' ..It would be hilarious, if this wasn't so serious. 

Why don't you write to the FDA, GQB ?

[GQBlues]

GQB is busted and claims I'm 'deflecting' ..It would be hilarious, if this wasn't so serious. 

Why don't you write to the FDA, GQB ?

Fail. Try again or STFU.

Contact page:  http://www.henryford.com/about/contact

Study officially filed at : http://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

Knock yourself out, baby! Contact Page!!!

[BC]

GQ,

I don't want the bone you are fighting with moby over, but the most important statement on the Ford page is the following:

Conclusions and relevance
In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact.

In other words a randomized trial would be necessary to confirm their results.  IIRC there was a trial under similar admittance conditions but it was halted?  Do you know of other trials that support the Ford results showing efficacy?

http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-halts-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine.

[GQBlues]

I addressed that already on another thread, BC. It doesn't diminished the resulting conclusive study in Henry Ford's multiple hospitals. They published and filed the report in the IJID this month. To this date, the study stands.

This means all data are available for inspection, scrutiny and open for prospective study to either support and/or refute the results of their study.

I'm not sure if moby's Googling habit is enough to challenged Henry Ford's epidemiologists for the time being. Dunno, maybe he's also looking for Guardian's opinion article on this one.

[msmob]

I addressed that already on another thread, BC. It doesn't diminished the resulting conclusive study in Henry Ford's multiple hospitals. They published and filed the report in the IJID this month. To this date, the study stands.

This means all data are available for inspection, scrutiny and open for prospective study to either support and/or refute the results of their study.

I'm not sure if moby's Googling habit is enough to challenged Henry Ford's epidemiologists for the time being. Dunno, maybe he's also looking for Guardian's opinion article on this one.

In other words, no.. GQB is 'desperate' to not simply state.. "I, like the President, was simply WRONG .."

 .. it's another outlier .. not a proper clinical trial ... the FDA holds sway.

[GQBlues]

In other words, no.. GQB is 'desperate' to not simply state.. "I, like the President, was simply WRONG .."

 .. it's another outlier .. not a proper clinical trial ... the FDA holds sway.

Fail. STFU.

Contact page, baby...what's the matter? No Guardian opinion article to refute?

[msmob]

Fail. STFU.

Contact page, baby...what's the matter? No Guardian opinion article to refute?

For the reader not yet comatose..Unlike GQB, who had not HEARD of HCQ .. I have a family member that does use it and strangely enough, Googled, sought the 'advice' of folks who are practicing ( sen. physicians)  re this drug, LONG before GQB thought it might 'help' re the virus..

[GQBlues]

For the reader not yet comatose..Unlike GQB, who had not HEARD of HCQ .. I have a family member that does use it and strangely enough, Googled, sought the 'advice' of folks who are practicing ( sen. physicians)  re this drug, LONG before GQB thought it might 'help' re the virus..

Fail. STFU.

Contact page:  http://www.henryford.com/about/contact

[Gator]

These are my own thoughts and words Gator.

And every anti-Trump media platform and every Democrat politician.   
 

Indeed, if there are folks around me not wearing masks, MY risk of infection is higher.

I gave them a wide berth.    Today they are rare inside shops, and I still give everyone a wide berth.  My largest risk is playing golf because some dudes are too excitable.   

Has Florida not experienced weeks of record infections and deaths?  Is the 7 day moving average for deaths average not going up and up still?

About 800 deaths this past seven days vs. 300 the first week in July. 

6,333 total deaths in Florida = accumulative CFR of 1.4%  (vs. 14.2% for Italy)   Florida population is 22 million population vs. Italy's 60 million.  You have explained Italy's high CFR is due in part to age, yet Florida has many seniors (13% 60-69, 9% 70-79, 5% 80+).

Accumulative CFR:    1.4%  July 29
                               2.2%  July 1
                               4.3%  June 1
                               3.8%  May 1

[BC]

And every anti-Trump media platform and every Democrat politician. 

Wouldn't it be the same for you as it applies to the Trump media platform and conservative politicians?
 

I gave them a wide berth.    Today they are rare inside shops, and I still give everyone a wide berth.  My largest risk is playing golf because some dudes are too excitable. 

 

That's great for you.  Masks are more about not infecting others than protecting oneself.

About 800 deaths this past seven days vs. 300 the first week in July. 

6,333 total deaths in Florida = accumulative CFR of 1.4%  (vs. 14.2% for Italy)   Florida population is 22 million population vs. Italy's 60 million.  You have explained Italy's high CFR is due in part to age, yet Florida has many seniors (13% 60-69, 9% 70-79, 5% 80+).

Accumulative CFR:    1.4%  July 29
                               2.2%  July 1
                               4.3%  June 1
                               3.8%  May 1

What does that equal, 294 deaths per million and counting fast.?  I'll let you do the math as to what you expect deaths per million in Florida will be by election day and end of the year.  Do you expect it to be lower or higher than Italy's deaths per million?

[msmob]

You just couldn't make this up...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53575964

US President Donald Trump has again defended the use of hydroxychloroquine to ward off coronavirus, contradicting his own public health officials.

He said the malaria medication was only rejected as a Covid-19 treatment because he had recommended its use.

His remarks come after Twitter banned his eldest son for posting a clip promoting hydroxychloroquine.

There is no evidence the drug can fight the virus, and regulators warn it may cause heart problems.

On Wednesday Dr Anthony Fauci, a leading member of the White House coronavirus task force, told the BBC that hydroxychloroquine was not effective against the virus.

"We know that every single good study - and by good study I mean randomised control study in which the data are firm and believable - has shown that hydroxychloroquine is not effective in the treatment of Covid-19," he said.

[fathertime]

MAGA!!! 4 More Years! 4 More Years!!

I really believe many leaders of other nations would like to see trump prevail.  My belief is 4 more years of trump would be destructive to the US as a whole in terms of how we make deals with and expect/demand cooperation from other nations.  I think more nations will continue to break from us, and we will find ourselves alone more and more often.   The good news about that is as our soft power continues to erode, we won't be able to start or foment as many conflicts as we did under past presidents.

Fathertime! 

[Gator]

Wouldn't it be the same for you as it applies to the Trump media platform and conservative politicians?

1.  Trump -  I think Trump is an asshole, yet I support the policies, especially in contrast with the Democrat alternatives and the direction the Democrats are heading.

2.  Conservative Politicians - Many of the Republican senators have noble goals.    The House Republicans are mixed, probably because they share the chambers with the many Democrat radicals.       

3.  Media - I am watching less and less news.   CNN has declined to such advocacy to be unwatchable.   Excepting Sunday's GPS, I see CNN only when Fox mocks their coverage.   When the Times and Post return their Pulitzers because they helped fabricate the Russian collusion hoax, I may start reading them.  Until then I would prefer being dipped in shit.   My limited time is confined mostly to Fox and BBC except when the latter is covering the UK (not interested).  Fox is too repetitive yet the afternoon show 'The Five' will at least make  fun of journalistic absurdity, Mike Wallace's son strives for balance, and  Laura Ingraham relaxes me before bedtime (Raymond is a delight).   
 

That's great for you.  Masks are more about not infecting others than protecting oneself.

A mask works both ways, but better at limiting output.

What does that equal, 294 deaths per million and counting fast.?  I'll let you do the math as to what you expect deaths per million in Florida will be by election day and end of the year.  Do you expect it to be lower or higher than Italy's deaths per million?

By election day - lower.     If no vaccine is developed the 2021 deaths per million will be more than Italy's 2020 rate.  However, without a vaccine Italy and Europe will start ticking up again in 2021. 

[Gator]

Young people returning home from work, friends, bars, etc.  are infecting their more vulnerable family members.   We talked about this, and now the reports from contact tracing and other patterns in Houston, South Florida and elsewhere have confirmed it.  Factors frequently cited are:

                   -  multigenerational housing,
                   -  low-income
                   -  minority 

Here is one such story from South Florida

   http://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/florida-dad-in-icu-with-coronavirus-after-son-21-apparently-infected-entire-family-mom-says/ 

[BC]

1.  Trump -  I think Trump is an asshole, yet I support the policies, especially in contrast with the Democrat alternatives and the direction the Democrats are heading.

Even policies, when put before United is wrong, something like trying to force-feed a horse - doesn't work out well.  This is the downside of overwhelming policy by executive pen.

2.  Conservative Politicians - Many of the Republican senators have noble goals.    The House Republicans are mixed, probably because they share the chambers with the many Democrat radicals.

 

Many, I feel, are too dependent on Trump fearing loss of his 'base' support needed to keep their jobs.   

3.  Media - I am watching less and less news.   CNN has declined to such advocacy to be unwatchable.   Excepting Sunday's GPS, I see CNN only when Fox mocks their coverage.   When the Times and Post return their Pulitzers because they helped fabricate the Russian collusion hoax, I may start reading them.  Until then I would prefer being dipped in shit.   My limited time is confined mostly to Fox and BBC except when the latter is covering the UK (not interested).  Fox is too repetitive yet the afternoon show 'The Five' will at least make  fun of journalistic absurdity, Mike Wallace's son strives for balance, and  Laura Ingraham relaxes me before bedtime (Raymond is a delight).

For the most part it's a show Gator and not news.  The repetitiveness is often boring.  I wish more would dig into the material instead of allowing their brains to get pounded with one viewpoint.

A mask works both ways, but better at limiting output.

Indeed.

By election day - lower.     If no vaccine is developed the 2021 deaths per million will be more than Italy's 2020 rate.  However, without a vaccine Italy and Europe will start ticking up again in 2021.

I'd love to see your math. Impress me. Give me confidence.  By golly I do want it your way.  Without a vaccine Europe will fair much better than back home.  They're honing test, track and trace skills to a very sharp edge. 

[GQBlues]

GQ,

I don't want the bone you are fighting with moby over, but the most important statement on the Ford page is the following:

In other words a randomized trial would be necessary to confirm their results.  IIRC there was a trial under similar admittance conditions but it was halted?  Do you know of other trials that support the Ford results showing efficacy?

http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-halts-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine.

BC-

Just got this info. Apparently another study was also peer reviewed and published 3 weeks ago in Journal Of General Internal Medicine by NY’s Mt Sinai Hospital. This one actually involved a bigger pool.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-05983-z

http://thinkpol.ca/2020/07/03/ny-study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-may-have-saved-covid-19-patients-lives/amp/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817#!

http://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535