"Why don't you just date an American woman?"

[BC]

I am nut talking about SELF worth.

Freudian...

[erikmagenta]

erik, the more you post the more you reveal. One doesn't get respected because they have a penis. There are a lot of penises in the world. If you want respect as a man, you have to be a man and earn it. It would appear you aren't receiving your idea of respect in your current environment and you are laying the blame for that on Western women. You are coming off as a serious misogynist. You are either damaged goods or you have a hellva lot to learn FWIW

Thanks FauxPas, yet we all have our perceptions of reality and of what we believe in at our core.  You are welcome to think and believe what you want.

In regards to learning, I read a lot and do actually enjoy learning new things.  My fave saying from my High School counselor--the more I learn, the more I learn, how much I have to learn.

You can call me a mysoginist if you want--I believe in Patriarchy and in traditional values.  Some women do as well.  Those kind of women are the ones I love and cherish.  It's very silly to call a guy a mysoginist if he does not care for certain type of women who only want to destroy society as a whole.  What do you call them??

[erikmagenta]

Sorry Erik, but I have to ask since I don't know your background:

Are you fluent in Russian?  Have you lived there before or know somebody who lives there?  Can you get a job there or perhaps you're independently wealthy?

Living in the FSU is much different than visiting a week or two.  I've read about people who have moved there and nobody describes it as easy.

Men are expected to support and provide for their families and you won't be able to do this very well if you lived with a lady in Russia.  It would be best of she moved to the US to be with you.  You at least know this culture and how to take care of things, which she would be more comfortable with.

Chemist,

No I am not even remotely fluent in Russian, but speak conversational Spanish well enough to get by in South America, so that is the likely final destination--not forever, but a few years of it I would really like to experience.  If I were to marry an FSU gal, we could go there first, and then to the USA if she really really wanted to.

[erikmagenta]

Strange, I can't recall you ever indicating that your intent was to move to FSU.  Just doesn't add up.. why in the world talk about socials, agencies and such when the best way to find a woman that does not intend to emigrate is to do so while living there.  Sort of putting the cart before the horse or?

Oh, guess I forgot your brothel book research... yes, such could well be less expensive there but doubt a publishing house will give much of a book advance for this kind of research.  Might also be incompatible with the women you would date there.

I dunno... the whole secret book thing, now going to live in FSU.. sounds like vaporware to me, but surely we'll get another answer that somehow explains all these contradictions, raising even more questions than those answered..

When did I ever once talk about a social??  Never been to one, will never go!!  Agencies?  Probably will not need to use one.  If I get a certificate to teach English to foreign students, I can live and work in Russia or Ukraine and meet women while there.  Capiche??  On top of that, I already have a pension which is an aditional source of income.  It's enough that I could live in either place for 3 months at ease.

The book?/  You're probably right, it will probably never happen.  I did not like the response, I feel it is a losing battle.  More importantly I am working on a totally different business plan which I have had for many many years. 

[Faux Pas]

I am nut talking about SELF worth.  I am talking about the social value of a man, or woman.

The opposite is true (I wonder how you will personalize this statement).  In the USA, few things are valued more than youth and beauty.  Do I really need to prove this?!?  So, take a 30 year old, very beautiful women from Colombia / Russia, and place her in Anywhere USA, it is likely she will feel a much higher social value.  (notice not self value)  Do you see this, or are you blind to this example too?

More avoidance? Yeah exactly as I suspected, so much for the debate eh? 

To answer your latest straw man, youth and beauty is reveled just about everywhere isn't it? Why should the USA be any different? Do you insinuate that it is top priority valued? No need to prove it by me. Was it not valued in Columbia? It is valued in Ukraine is it not? I notice you didn't seek a 48 year old Ukrainian women. I've never heard mention dating a 40-50 year old Columbian either.

What is your point? Everybody's social value is predicated only on their beauty and youth? Is this just the USA or no? Your beauty and youth or lack of, should be dismissed by those 30 year old Ukrainian women while you do not dismiss the 40-50 year olds?

If your 30 year old beauty from Columbia or Russia needs to be appreciated for her beauty she will likely find it in her own country as well as the USA. If she needs it to feel a value as a person, she'll be in heaven. Likely she'll also be an empty airhead.

[BC]

When did I ever once talk about a social??  Never been to one, will never go!!  Agencies?  Probably will not need to use one. If I get a certificate to teach English to foreign students, I can live and work in Russia or Ukraine and meet women while there.  Capiche??  On top of that, I already have a pension which is an aditional source of income.  It's enough that I could live in either place for 3 months at ease.

The book?/  You're probably right, it will probably never happen.  I did not like the response, I feel it is a losing battle.  More importantly I am working on a totally different business plan which I have had for many many years.

Can't recall plans to teach English either.  There have been a couple of discussions about doing that, IIRC pretty tough to eek out a living.  I do know it can be pretty expensive for anything near a western lifestyle.  How's your Russian?  Ukrainian?  Spanish?.. ahh that was already asked upthread by another poster.

oh well....

[erikmagenta]

Can't recall plans to teach English either.  There have been a couple of discussions about doing that, IIRC pretty tough to eek out a living.  I do know it can be pretty expensive for anything near a western lifestyle.  How's your Russian?  Ukrainian?  Spanish?.. ahh that was already asked upthread by another poster.

oh well....

My Spanish is good enough to get by, yet can improve dramatically if living in a Spanish speaking country.  Income as an English teacher, income from a pension, and income from a website business alltogether is more than enough.  In fact my pension is high enough that I could live very well in several countries in South America--but I like to keep busy, so would do other things as well.  My pension is enough, that through my research (admittedly a lot better than most of my posts here would indicate) I could afford a luxury 2 or 3 bedroom apartment, with maid service, etc.

[Gator]

Rivardco raises an interesting point.  Regarding how women treat men in American and FSU, I have noticed a difference.   I am not talking about women one encounters in business and commerce and government service, but women in a dating environment.   
 
The population of RW seems bifurcated into those who are cleverly seductive  and those who simply ignore you. 
 
With regard to AW, some can be just as "charming" (i. e., seductive) as any RW.   And many ignore you as with RW.    Unlike RW, not a small number of AW seem to have a chip on their shoulder.  Even though I have never met them before, some AW will act as if I were the man who gave them a bad time on their last date.   Some may even accuse you of misogyny based on a  mundane comment.  Why so rude?  Why am I the enemy?    Is this the result of psychotherapy, self-help books, etc.  Why not just say "Get Lost!"  Why the putdown.

[Gator]

I have also noticed a difference in how men value women in the American and FSU societies.   
 
With regard to pursuing women and adoring them early in the relationship, the RM seems  far more demonstrative if not dramatic.   They do not make rehearsed flirty quotes in public, yet flowers, gifts, words, displays, etc. flow freely.   I have seen young RM chase after a RW with her nose in the air, virtually down on his knees begging forgiveness, as explained to me by another RW.  And the RW with me is laughing knowing it is an act.
 
I don't behave this way, and never did even when very young and horny.
 
Fast forward to marriage.   When visiting a married couple, one hears "Don't pick up the dirty dishes, that is woman's work."
 
Exceptions must exist, and my experience with visiting FSU married couples is small.

[erikmagenta]

Rivardco raises an interesting point.  Regarding how women treat men in American and FSU, I have noticed a difference.   I am not talking about women one encounters in business and commerce and government service, but women in a dating environment.   
 
The population of RW seems bifurcated into those who are cleverly seductive  and those who simply ignore you. 
 
With regard to AW, some can be just as "charming" (i. e., seductive) as any RW.   And many ignore you as with RW.    Unlike RW, not a small number of AW seem to have a chip on their shoulder.  Even though I have never met them before, some AW will act as if I were the man who gave them a bad time on their last date.   Some may even accuse you of misogyny based on a  mundane comment.  Why so rude?  Why am I the enemy?    Is this the result of psychotherapy, self-help books, etc.  Why not just say "Get Lost!"  Why the putdown.

+1  It is media and Hollywood conditioning to blame men for everything, and for those type of women to never ever take any responsibility for their own actions. 

[IAmZon]

As a result of living much of my time outside the USA for the past several years, there are two issues that when raised, my comments - in the USA - come off as extreme and out of proportion:

1, Obesity in America (it is breathtakingly amazing!  It is obvious that we are poisoning ourselves here, and most do not even notice)
2, The Male gender is depicted as "boobs" in TV commercials / print advertising.

[Gylden]

As a result of living much of my time outside the USA for the past several years, there are two issues that when raised, my comments - in the USA - come off as extreme and out of proportion:

1, Obesity in America (it is breathtakingly amazing!  It is obvious that we are poisoning ourselves here, and most do not even notice)
2, The Male gender is depicted as "boobs" in TV commercials / print advertising.

I have been living for the last 15 years outside of the US. I have been active in South America and Europe, although not in eastern Europe.
I have noticed the obesity phenomenon pretty much everywhere in Europe (especially in the youth) IMO it is because of the increase in consumption of fast food/semi prepared food/soda and the increase in the use of motor vehicles.
People who are living in poorer countries are on foot more often and prepare food from raw materials more often (more exercise and better diet).
 
As for the male gender being depicted as "boobs" well in many cases "if the shoe fits".

[missAmeno]

As for the male gender being depicted as "boobs" well in many cases "if the shoe fits".

 




Been laughing reading all this silly comments about men having bigger value in FSU. Made me realize that this forum is the best sarcastic comedy I have read in long time. Keep writing, just dont forget to take with you your thick wallets when vising FSU.

[Faux Pas]

Been laughing reading all this silly comments about men having bigger value in FSU. Made me realize that this forum is the best sarcastic comedy I have read in long time. Keep writing, just dont forget to take with you your thick wallets when vising FSU.

+1

[IAmZon]

Been laughing reading all this silly comments about men having bigger value in FSU. Made me realize that this forum is the best sarcastic comedy I have read in long time. Keep writing, just dont forget to take with you your thick wallets when vising FSU.

You can state it several ways:

- Men have a higher social value in more traditional societies (places where masculine characteristics still add to life - physical security and "bringing home the bacon")

- Men have a lower social value in societies that have become "gender neutral". (physical security is institutionalized.  Women and feminine traits are tending to trump masculine traits in higher education and the modern work place)

- Women (probably best to say attractive women) have a lower social value in places like Colombia / FSU because  (a) diet, exercise, willingness to dress sexy ... make beauty less rare  (b) less in control of business, justice, police - the institutions of power

- Women have a higher social value in the USA, UK, Norway (a) fat, less willing/motivated to dress attractively  b) very equal in the workplace and leadership)

Sarcastic comedy - or obvious truism?

[IAmZon]

It is hard (Impossible) to NOT agree with these objective observations.  Here is a nice example, of which there are millions.  Man is a boob.  Woman in control.  Girls Night Out.  Do you think this would run in the USA 10 - 20 years ago?  If this were ONLY ONE example, it would be humorous ... but it is systemic of how current society in the USA is imaging the male gender.   OF COURSE, this does not apply to everyone, individually.  Just like it is not true that ALL people are fat.  But, it is a clear and obvious generality

[Faux Pas]

It is hard (Impossible) to NOT agree with these objective observations.  Here is a nice example, of which there are millions.  Man is a boob.  Woman in control.  Girls Night Out.  Do you think this would run in the USA 10 - 20 years ago?  If this were ONLY ONE example, it would be humorous ... but it is systemic of how current society in the USA is imaging the male gender.   OF COURSE, this does not apply to everyone, individually.  Just like it is not true that ALL people are fat.  But, it is a clear and obvious generality

Suck it up and grow you a pair there Cupcake. It is what it is. Do you feel you've been wronged because the US has moved toward (still debatable) a gender equal society? Or is it the 48 year old Lotharios have too much trouble trying to bag the sub 30 year old hotties?

[tfcrew]

  First post in this thread-

I don't know about pcmatic.
I have malwarebytes anti-malware & superantispyware ...
They have free versions [updateable] that work great.

Now...I say 'date' anyone you want, just be careful who you would marry...........

[missAmeno]

Here is a nice example, of which there are millions.  Man is a boob.  Woman in control.  Girls Night Out.

If you believe wife that time to time enjoys company of her mates makes husband into "boob", you should have a talk with psychologist.

[IAmZon]

CupCake?  Is what it is? Do you feel you've been wronged because the US has moved toward (still debatable) a gender equal society?

You have an affinity to personalize anything I post.  Cup Cake ...

You like to be super supportive of the whole MOB thing, for anybody wishing to dive in (or so it seems).  Kumbaya Kumbaya.  I, on the other hand, am interested in designing a life that does not necessarily build upon the definitions at hand.  Therefore, I AM interested in facts, observations and general impressions of others.  You are not.   ( Do us a favor an put me on ignore )

Does it bother me about the relative social value of men declining in the West?  Not really.  But, it is hard not to notice, and I would prefer not to participate.  I guess that is one of the many reasons I don't live here full time anymore.

It is similar to obesity.  I weight 10 pounds more than I did in college.  I went to my 30 THIRTIETH High School reunion last weekend.   Mr. Basketball was about 125 pounds overweight.  Mr. Football was about 75 pounds overweight (although he is short)  The captain of the cheer leading team was probably coming in at 190 pounds too.  Does that bother me, personally?  NO. But, it is hard not to notice an epidemic ... and I would prefer not to participate.

[IAmZon]

Ms A - PLEASE.  Look at the little video again and tell me that is all you see?!?!?!

When you make posts like this that are so one dimensional and obtuse, it subtracts from whatever other credibility your other posts contain.   

Is that REALLY all you see?  (yes, this is a test)

[missAmeno]

Ms A - PLEASE.  Look at the little video again and tell me that is all you see?!?!?!

When you make posts like this that are so one dimensional and obtuse, it subtracts from whatever other credibility your other posts contain.   

Is that REALLY all you see?  (yes, this is a test)

What do you see so scary in that video? Why you so petrified of women in control?

[IAmZon]

What do you see so scary in that video? Why you so petrified of women in control?

Stop it.  I have noted rather obvious facts.  I am NOT making a mountain out of a mole hill.  At one point, you say these points do NOT exist.  Then, you suggest IF they do exist then the fault is MINE because I find them "harmful" or "scary".   NO.  NO NO  Let's take one point at a time. 

Factually, do you agree or disagree with any part of the below?

You can state it several ways:

- Men have a higher social value in more traditional societies (places where masculine characteristics still add to life - physical security and "bringing home the bacon")

- Men have a lower social value in societies that have become "gender neutral". (physical security is institutionalized.  Women and feminine traits are tending to trump masculine traits in higher education and the modern work place)

- Women (probably best to say attractive women) have a lower social value in places like Colombia / FSU because  (a) diet, exercise, willingness to dress sexy ... make beauty less rare  (b) less in control of business, justice, police - the institutions of power

- Women have a higher social value in the USA, UK, Norway (a) fat, less willing/motivated to dress attractively  b) very equal in the workplace and leadership)

=> After this, then we can move to the specific, or personal level.  Something you and FP seem to have a hard time living without. <=

[Faux Pas]

You have an affinity to personalize anything I post.  Cup Cake ...

You like to be super supportive of the whole MOB thing, for anybody wishing to dive in (or so it seems).  Kumbaya Kumbaya.  I, on the other hand, am interested in designing a life that does not necessarily build upon the definitions at hand.  Therefore, I AM interested in facts, observations and general impressions of others.  You are not.   ( Do us a favor an put me on ignore )

Us a favor? Have you got a mouse in your pocket? It is all personal, Cupcake. Your generalizations are all personal. I am supportive of the whole MOB thing for those worthy enough and for those that have the cajones  to do it. Those that use it as an excuse to inflate their own suffering egos, play sex tourist, well, they receive little support from me. You are full of nothing but excuses riv. You can fool some of the people some of the time, just not all of the people all of the time. You are damaged goods dude and your looking for excuses under every rock why the blame doesn't lay with you. Good luck with that.
 

Does it bother me about the relative social value of men declining in the West?  Not really.  But, it is hard not to notice, and I would prefer not to participate.  I guess that is one of the many reasons I don't live here full time anymore.

It is similar to obesity.  I weight 10 pounds more than I did in college.  I went to my 30 THIRTIETH High School reunion last weekend.   Mr. Basketball was about 125 pounds overweight.  Mr. Football was about 75 pounds overweight (although he is short)  The captain of the cheer leading team was probably coming in at 190 pounds too.  Does that bother me, personally?  NO. But, it is hard not to notice an epidemic ... and I would prefer not to participate.

Social value of men and the obesity problem of the US. Yeah, that's the ticket. Yeah that's it. That is what drives the 48 year old shallow and conceited hopefuls around the world to hunt/date women 20 years his junior that he can't date at home. There has to be something else to blame. It can't possibly be his own fault can it? 

As long as you posting your current line of tripe in the open forum, I'll pick and choose what I wish to respond to. You are welcome to do the same. None of it will be at your leisure, only mine. 

[GQBlues]

...
You can state it several ways:

- Men have a higher social value in more traditional societies (places where masculine characteristics still add to life - physical security and "bringing home the bacon")

- Men have a lower social value in societies that have become "gender neutral". (physical security is institutionalized.  Women and feminine traits are tending to trump masculine traits in higher education and the modern work place)

- Women (probably best to say attractive women) have a lower social value in places like Colombia / FSU because  (a) diet, exercise, willingness to dress sexy ... make beauty less rare  (b) less in control of business, justice, police - the institutions of power

- Women have a higher social value in the USA, UK, Norway (a) fat, less willing/motivated to dress attractively  b) very equal in the workplace and leadership)

I am with you hero. Not sure why anyone is debating your personal perception.

You deem yourself of lower social value and thus you feel the only road to your personal happiness and redemption is finding someone who thinks the same of herself which is why you've been spending a great deal of your life searching in places mentioned.

Knowing what we know of you these days, who can really argue with your cause and logic?