Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?

[2tallbill]

I would be careful about how or if if is brought up before meeting, with some girls such talk could be an early sign to her that you are a sex tourist. She may go into hitting you for buying her stuff on arrival especially if she doesn't like you all that much. Even humourous talk on sex may start her thinking the wrong way.

I have excellent interpersonal skills. I understand what works for me, might not work for
someone with low level social skills. I also have the ability to make girls laugh, that also
helps them lower their barriers to communication. Sure, they have fears, but not of me,
and not for long.

I can read a woman's face, her body language etc. Sometimes I read it wrong and thought
a woman meant for me to come hither (she is only human) when she did not. 

You get better at things with experience.

[2tallbill]

A kiss is not something you explain about or ask permission.

A kiss is something you do.

I agree enough that it's written in my signature of every post I make.

[2tallbill]

I don't really agree with this. To me the speed of the sexual relationship is all up to the woman. Some women would rather take it more slowly. There is a very fine line however between your bored friend category and moving forward. My limited knowledge of Russian/Ukrainian women is this. If she's traveling Europe, especially on her own dime, she's not interested in being friends.
I'm not sure who's paying for these trips. If the poster is paying and we are in this situation I agree with ML, if the lady is paying her own way, then I am inlined to follow her lead.

A serious FSUW wants a man to seduce her and to win her heart. She doesn't want to do
the seducing. She will flirt and encourage a man while he is pursuing her. BUT she wants him
to make the move. If you don't make the move she will believe that you are not interested
in her.

Kiss the girl !!
Make the move !!

If she isn't ready or isn't interested she knows how to communicate that.
It's far better to try too soon rather than too late.

[krimster2]

kiss?
I'd go straight for "naked bania" after the third date!

and pretend ya didn't know that ya hafta get COMPLETELY NAKED for the sauna
and try to not act "too pervy", cuz that shows 'immaturity' when she makes eye contact with you

and if you incels don't know what it's like to sit naked in a sauna with a beautful woman you just met
well that's unfortunate...

[ML]

A serious FSUW wants a man to seduce her and to win her heart. She doesn't want to do the seducing. She will flirt and encourage a man while he is pursuing her. BUT she wants him
to make the move.

Not always my experience.

I had several high class, highly educated FSU gals take the lead in initiating sex.  I wouldn't say they tried to seduce me . . . they just went right for it.  As I understand it . . . seduction is a series of acts over some time period to achieve an end.  So when they just go for it . . . I don't consider that seduction.

Likewise, I don't consider that I ever tried to seduce any woman . . . again, in terms of a series of acts over some time period directed toward  achieving sex.

Just try to have a good time with them and things usually develop naturally . . . or not.

I would estimate that sex occurred with about a third of the FSU gals that I met.

A few on first date, a few on second date, a lot on third date and there were even a few where sex didn't occur until 4th or 5th date. 

For those latter cases, I didn't follow the rule to dump them for perceived lack of interest, because there were extenuating circumstances.  e.g. we were both exhausted, one of us became ill, one of us had important meetings occur, etc.

[2tallbill]

Not always my experience.

I had several high class, highly educated FSU gals take the lead in initiating sex.  I wouldn't say they tried to seduce me . . . they just went right for it.  As I understand it . . . seduction is a series of acts over some time period to achieve an end.  So when they just go for it . . . I don't consider that seduction.

Likewise, I don't consider that I ever tried to seduce any woman . . . again, in terms of a series of acts over some time period directed toward  achieving sex.

Just try to have a good time with them and things usually develop naturally . . . or not.

I would estimate that sex occurred with about a third of the FSU gals that I met.

A few on first date, a few on second date, a lot on third date and there were even a few where sex didn't occur until 4th or 5th date. 

For those latter cases, I didn't follow the rule to dump them for perceived lack of interest, because there were extenuating circumstances.  e.g. we were both exhausted, one of us became ill, one of us had important meetings occur, etc.

Different men have different goals. Men who are pursuing women with the specific goal of
finding a wife with a woman seeking a husband approach these things differently. I don't
think that was your goal in those days and I don't think you told women that it was. As a
result they/you had different expectations.

I rarely would have met a girl on a meet many trip if I was exhausted. I would have been
disappointed if a woman agreed to meet with me ill or exhausted. There would not have
been a second date.

My posts/advice are not meant for people who are casually dating. I did a ton of casual
dating in the USA before my first marriage. My advice is written primarily for those who
need to maximize the short time they spend in the FSU.