Ukraine-The Future

[Shadow]

Just in case you thought I am the only crackpot in the Netherlands....though for many if not most of the voters it was not about Ukraine at all. Just in case anyone wonders, I voted in favour.

dutch-voters-reject-closer-eu-links-to-ukraine-in-referendum

Dutch voters have overwhelmingly rejected a Ukraine-European Union treaty on closer political and economic ties, in a rebuke to their government and to the EU establishment.
The broad political, trade and defence treaty – which had already been signed by the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte’s government and approved by all other EU nations, and Ukraine – provisionally took effect in January.

[fathertime]

But probably not with the new revelations brought out today with the "Panama Papers"

Ukrainians appear pretty pissed off about Poroshenko's role in Panama, among other things.

[mendeleyev]

Father Time,

First, that photo is copyrighted by Getty Images. Those folks bite with very sharp teeth when their work is used without payment. The mods might wish to remove it.

Second, I am amazed that the Daily Beast would post a photo from the Maidan revolution (this photo is from Feb 2014) while attempting to claim it represents protests now in Ukraine, over two years later.

Third, the small scale protests against failure to curb corruption started before the so-called Panama revelations, so for the Daily Beast to claim that they are a result of that release is dishonest.

[fathertime]

Father Time,

First, that photo is copyrighted by Getty Images. Those folks bite with very sharp teeth when their work is used without payment. The mods might wish to remove it.

Second, I am amazed that the Daily Beast would post a photo from the Maidan revolution (this photo is from Feb 2014) while attempting to claim it represents protests now in Ukraine, over two years later.

Well the American owned and operated Daily Beast certainly loses some credibility regarding the deleted photo...they certainly represented the image as being a part of the new waves of protests. 

Third, the small scale protests against failure to curb corruption started before the so-called Panama revelations, so for the Daily Beast to claim that they are a result of that release is dishonest. 

Yes it appears there have been protests prior to the "Panama Papers" and Poroshenko's involvement.  According to the article, one complaint is that Poroshenko promised to sell his candy business if elected....but has not done so and has been profiting all along.  They quote his approval at 17%, which is around the same as the US congress.   


I shall re-link the article to back up the above statements, but not the picture which assuming what you say is correct shouldn't be a part of the article...Thanks for catching that. 


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/08/ukraine-on-fire.html


Fathertime! 

[JayH]

Father Time,

First, that photo is copyrighted by Getty Images. Those folks bite with very sharp teeth when their work is used without payment. The mods might wish to remove it.

Second, I am amazed that the Daily Beast would post a photo from the Maidan revolution (this photo is from Feb 2014) while attempting to claim it represents protests now in Ukraine, over two years later.

Third, the small scale protests against failure to curb corruption started before the so-called Panama revelations, so for the Daily Beast to claim that they are a result of that release is dishonest.

Thankyou-saved me pointing out the ignorance of a post made without any comprehension.

[fathertime]

Thankyou-saved me pointing out the ignorance of a post made without any comprehension.

Despite the poorly chosen photo the story used, I was hoping that you could ignorantly 'gloss over' some of the truths exposed by the story!  haha


Fathertime! 

[mendeleyev]

Well the American owned and operated Daily Beast certainly loses some credibility regarding the deleted photo...they certainly represented the image as being a part of the new waves of protests. 

FT, I am with you on that one. Often journalists will use a stock photo, and the Daily Beast does pay for rights to use such work. However, they were misrepresenting the situation.

I recognized the scene the instant that I saw it--I was on Maidan periodically and knew what it was. I also knew that the current protests, valid in my opinion, have not reached anywhere close to the same level of intensity. Even so, I checked the photo, and it was indeed from Feb 2014.

As for Poroshenko's selling of the Roshen chocolate business, his Russian assets have been seized and that makes it every difficult to find a buyer without taking a financial bath. I'd tend to give him a pass on that issue for now. However, if he has been hiding assets for the purposes of tax evasion, that would be another matter.

[jone]

FT, I am with you on that one. Often journalists will use a stock photo, and the Daily Beast does pay for rights to use such work. However, they were misrepresenting the situation.

I recognized the scene the instant that I saw it--I was on Maidan periodically and knew what it was. I also knew that the current protests, valid in my opinion, have not reached anywhere close to the same level of intensity. Even so, I checked the photo, and it was indeed from Feb 2014.

As for Poroshenko's selling of the Roshen chocolate business, his Russian assets have been seized and that makes it every difficult to find a buyer without taking a financial bath. I'd tend to give him a pass on that issue for now. However, if he has been hiding assets for the purposes of tax evasion, that would be another matter.

Mendy,

His claim is that he put all of his assets in a trust that is handled by people other than himself. 

1.  Is this a requirement by Ukrainian law?  I believe in the United States, our President is required to put assets into a trust.

2.  Did he really do that?

3.  If he did do that, why would there be push-back by the Ukrainian people?

[Muzh]

Dutch voters have overwhelmingly rejected a Ukraine-European Union treaty on closer political and economic ties, in a rebuke to their government and to the EU establishment.
The broad political, trade and defence treaty – which had already been signed by the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte’s government and approved by all other EU nations, and Ukraine – provisionally took effect in January.

I wouldn't call 32% an overwhelming vote.

[mendeleyev]

Mendy,

His claim is that he put all of his assets in a trust that is handled by people other than himself. 

1.  Is this a requirement by Ukrainian law?  I believe in the United States, our President is required to put assets into a trust.

2.  Did he really do that?

3.  If he did do that, why would there be push-back by the Ukrainian people?

Jone, he made a promise to put his assets into a trust. It seems that he may have done so with some, but Roshen Confectionery is a difficult case with assets being seized by a hostile nation. It seems that he tried to deal with that issue by creating a separate entity at an offshore legal and banking organization in order to protect himself in case of a full Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Push-back comes from at least two areas: the feeling by many Ukrainian citizens that not much has been done to curb corruption and the power of Oligarchs. The truth is that this issue is bigger than most have imagined. Secondly, he is himself an Oligarch, and a valid question is whether he has led anti-corruption efforts, or has he stood in the way of reforms?

We can also see that perception is not always reality. I think that he has done a good job on most issues of governance, but he has been disappointing in others. Some Ukrainians, especially those with little experience in wealth management, will assume the worst simply based on news reports. On the other hand, some will blindly defend even in the facts of compelling evidence. So far, we really don't have a smoking gun, but perhaps one will emerge at some point.

The corruption that Ukraine faces runs deep. It is a byproduct of a failed Soviet/Communist system, then coupled with the selfish actions of a few to enrich themselves at the expense of those most vulnerable. It does not help that one of the most corrupt systems of commerce and governance just happens to reside next door.

As to the theory that the Panama leaks might have been a product of the Russian Security organs, it is interesting that so much scrutiny is on Poroshenko, yet so little on Putin.

[AkMike]

Mendy,

His claim is that he put all of his assets in a trust that is handled by people other than himself. 

1.  Is this a requirement by Ukrainian law?  I believe in the United States, our President is required to put assets into a trust.

2.  Did he really do that?

3.  If he did do that, why would there be push-back by the Ukrainian people?

Interfax and FT reports that he's had Rothschild's Trusts hired for some time working on this. The push back is from lack of information initially put out by the media. People assume the worst.
Now that it appears that he's being above board they are breathing better.

[JayH]

Interfax and FT reports that he's had Rothschild's Trusts hired for some time working on this. The push back is from lack of information initially put out by the media. People assume the worst.
Now that it appears that he's being above board they are breathing better.

Do you have a link?

Seriously-- the explanation has been readily available for days now--  and if it was possible to post here details---it would save a lot of posts made in ignorance.
The idea of some here that only "good" is posted about Ukraine is not correct--it is a period of history that will set the future direction of Ukraine and affect all of us with an interest .
I note it is ok for others to make political posts-but not me or AkMike .

What is to be noted in the thread above--is the attempt to perpetrate substantially false and misleading information--either maliciously or  in ignorance-- probably both!!

[fathertime]

I note it is ok for others to make political posts-but not me or AkMike .

You are just trying to use that lie as an excuse not to back up the BS you post.  Moderation has already publicly explained that to you, but your comprehension is so poor that you can't understand!


Fathertime! 

[Shadow]

I wouldn't call 32% an overwhelming vote.

Tell that to the Guardian.

[Shadow]

Jone, he made a promise to put his assets into a trust. It seems that he may have done so with some, but Roshen Confectionery is a difficult case with assets being seized by a hostile nation. It seems that he tried to deal with that issue by creating a separate entity at an offshore legal and banking organization in order to protect himself in case of a full Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Or a hostile takeover by other Ukrainians, it would not be the first time the president it overthrown...

[fathertime]

Opinions on the implications, if any, for Yatseniuk resignation?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ukraine-prime-minister_us_570a5a6ce4b0885fb50d55e6?


Ukraine’s Prime Minister Yatseniuk Resigns



KIEV, April 10 (Reuters) - Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk tendered his resignation in a televised broadcast on Sunday and signaled support for parliamentary speaker and presidential ally Volodymyr Groysman to take over his post.

Yatseniuk has resisted pressure to resign since surviving a no-confidence motion against his government in February, but Ukraine’s political crisis has fractured the ruling coalition and further delayed the disbursement of aid under a $17.5 billion International Monetary Fund bailout program.....

[ML]

He said when taking the job that he knew it was political suicide.

I thought he did a pretty good job, considering the circumstances.  How many countries come out of it this good when they are under attack by a larger foreign country.

Anyway, I don't think his political career is over, as he thought it might have to be when he took the job.

[AkMike]

Prime Minister Yatsenyuk recently got a second (Canadian) passport. 

[AkMike]

Ukraine's ex-president Viktor Yanukovych and one of his partners in crime, Prime Minister, Mykola Azarov are now officially Russian citizens and, consequently, are under the protection of the Russia.

 I guess that he won't want to be President again as he stated earlier.

[JayH]

Some   time ago I commented that in a perverse way the need for Ukraine to increase it's spending on the military would help seed the economy and lead to growth.Despite the degree of ignorance displayed here by some forum know it all's( you know who you are!) this is proving to be the case.
This article  details precisely what I advanced--eg in this case the improved production is leading to wage growth and employment-putting more money and ability to spend back into the economy.

Tank Plant in Ukraine increased production of 7 times

http://elise.com.ua/?p=190192#

[mendeleyev]

Mike, Mykola Azarov has been a Russian citizen for quite some time. He was born in Kaluga.

[AkMike]

Possibly, That's what the news said though.

[mendeleyev]

Mike, I wasn't busting your chops. 

In fact, the next time some nationalistic Russian denounces Ukraine for having officials from other countries, remind them that no one was complaining when a Russian citizen like Azarov was second in command in Ukraine during the Yanukonvict years.

[AkMike]

Thank You Mendy!!!!

[Boethius]

Prime Minister Yatsenyuk recently got a second (Canadian) passport.

That would be quite the feat, given there are strict in country residency requirements for obtaining Canadian citizenship, which Yatseniuk clearly would not have met.


An exception could be made via an act of Parliament, but such legislation is published, and there is no record of any bill granting Yatseniuk citizenship.


Look at the source of your information, and what they have to gain by spreading such misinformation.