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Author Topic: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ  (Read 12466 times)

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Offline SANDRO43

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35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« on: June 26, 2017, 04:37:42 PM »
Congratulations to Emirates Team New Zealand for winning the 2017 America's Cup :clapping:.

Their team included not a few Italians ;):
- MATTEO DE NORA, TEAM PRINCIPAL
- ALESSANDRO FRANCESCHETTI, STRUCTURAL ENGINEER
- FABRIZIO MARABINI, SOFTWARE AND SYSTEMS ENGINEER
- GILBERTO NOBILI, CYCLIST/PERFORMANCE ANALYST
- GIORDANA PIPORNETTI, MEDIA ASSISTANT TO TEAM PRINCIPAL
- MASSIMILANO CARBONE, HYDRAULICS TECHNICIAN
- MAX SIRENA, TECHNICAL ADVISOR / MANAGEMENT
- STEFANO MOROSIN, ELECTRONICS
- VITO VATTUONE, HYDRAULICS ENGINEER

The performance of these twin-hulled foil catamarans was astonishing, running on average at a speed 3 times the actual wind :o.


Their boat above is not unmanned ;D, the crew is in the port hull, hidden from view by the central sails and jib boom.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 04:56:50 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline ML

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 05:37:33 PM »
running on average at a speed 3 times the actual wind

How is that possible.  Some law of physics violated ??
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Offline ML

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 05:41:28 PM »
Also, I don't understand the usage of Emirates Team New Zealand.

Emirate - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate
An emirate is a political territory that is ruled by a dynastic Islamic monarch styled emir. It also means principality.
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 06:25:49 PM »
Also, I don't understand the usage of Emirates Team New Zealand.

Emirate - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate
An emirate is a political territory that is ruled by a dynastic Islamic monarch styled emir. It also means principality.

Simple - the principal team sponsor since 2004 has been Emirates Airline.

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 06:39:33 PM »
Congratulations to Emirates Team New Zealand for winning the 2017 America's Cup :clapping:.

Thank you, Sandro.  There seem to be about fifty different stories about the victory on the New Zealand Herald website this morning.

The performance of these twin-hulled foil catamarans was astonishing, running on average at a speed 3 times the actual wind :o.

The top speed recorded in the previous America's Cup (2013) was 47.57 knots (88 km/h) in 21.8 knots of wind.  I believe that the top speed recorded in the early part of this year's competition (the Louis Vuitton Cup, when winds were stronger than they have been for the last few days), was close to this, but I can't find an actual reference.  Anecdotal evidence from the various AC regattas over the past couple of years has the boats flying along at over FOUR times the wind speed.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 08:02:09 PM »
How is that possible. Some law of physics violated??
Obviously not ;). Here's the Daily Telegraph's explanation:
Quote
How is it possible to sail faster than the wind?
At first glance this appears to defy logic – how can a yacht travel faster than the wind that is propelling it? However, the boats in the America's Cup use rigid wing sails rather than traditional cloth and mast mail sails.
These fixed wings use the same principals of lift force that enables aircraft to fly to drive the boat forward.
The speed produced also lifts the catamarans out of the water. When combined with reduced drag through the water, the catamarans essentially fly above the surface of the water.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/10335496/Americas-Cup-how-the-yachts-go-faster-than-the-wind.html

And Wikipedia's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-performance_sailing
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Offline msmob

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 10:56:59 PM »
AK, you were 'lucky' ... .When racing  us ( Britain) our boat broke and you got easy wins - your lot smashed theirs - but the racing next day was cancelled - and 2 certain wins for us were 'lost' ;)

Seriously, the best team certainly won and I'm glad for NZ after what happened in 2013- - beaten 8-9 from being 8-1 up



Look how SLOW these flying machine make the other yachts (sail boats) for our N.American readers ;)

http://youtu.be/-p-pVBFsfSE?t=207
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 12:10:56 AM by msmob »

Offline southernX

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 12:01:10 AM »
the americas cup yacht is now nothing like the old style of boats that used to compete

bit sad really how it has changed since we first won the cup of america in 83

SX
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Offline msmob

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 12:08:41 AM »


Watched it in a tiny taverna on a tiny Greek island - that was a great final race...

Offline msmob

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 04:01:17 AM »
Good thread, Sandro

The history of the Cup

http://www.americascup.com/en/history.html

It's named after the yacht that first won the cup - not the nation

Britain has NEVER was [edited to correct my spelling howler - but too late, Sando noticed: ] won   the cup - despite the most challenges

It is the oldest intl. sporting trophy
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 05:59:08 AM by msmob »

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 05:50:01 AM »
Britain has NEVER was the cup
Trench's disease spreading :D?
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Offline msmob

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2017, 05:56:39 AM »
Trench's disease spreading :D?

Clearly, and I can't even blame a mobile telephone .. :red-face:

Offline BdHvA

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 07:37:10 AM »
So everyone understands The Americas cup was presented to the sailing vessel America who beat the best of the 'English' fleet in a race around the Isle of Wright. When the Queen 'Victoria' asked her admiral who was second he stated there was no second.

In fact he was referring to the reality there was no 'English' vessel in view.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline BdHvA

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 12:17:49 PM »
Larry 'Oracle' Ellison lost. Will he return I sort of doubt it.

Both senior Hardy and Connor seem to be happy with the reality that New Zeeland won (again). My guess we will see a more traditional event in four years time that reflect a more national team effort that returns the focus to one on one on the water match racing and national design skills in preparation. As a media event what was supposed to be a spectacle was a big bore. In fact it seems the mega yachts (J-boats) in some respects received more coverage in the press.

Other changes will be hard to estimate but there was a document circulated before the start of this event that team NZ refused sign the intent being to agree to keep the current format. NZ was the only to refuse, so there are certain to be changes.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:53:10 PM by BdHvA »
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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 05:05:38 PM »


Watched it in a tiny taverna on a tiny Greek island - that was a great final race...

Most australians of that era will always remember where they where when they watched those final races for the win

The theme song from men at work ''do you come from a land down under ''is now legendary of that time and win , sadly allan bond who backed the win , then went bankcrupt in spectacular fashion , ending up in prison and has now passed away

SX
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 05:59:17 PM »
Sandro will, I'm sure, be pleased to learn that Luna Rossa have immediately been confirmed as the Challenger of Record for the next event, which will almost certainly be in Auckland in 2021.

The Great Sound in Bermuda is bigger than the inner Waitemata Harbour, so I can't see the same sort of racing taking place here - it simply wouldn't be safe.  There are alternatives around the mouth of the harbour and in the Hauraki Gulf, so we'll have to wait and see what boats and course Team New Zealand decide to use.  Personally, I think that a 25 minute timeframe is ridiculously short for a series of races of such importance, but that's just MHO.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 06:29:55 PM »
Sandro will, I'm sure, be pleased to learn that Luna Rossa have immediately been confirmed as the Challenger of Record for the next event, which will almost certainly be in Auckland in 2021.The Great Sound in Bermuda is bigger than the inner Waitemata Harbour, so I can't see the same sort of racing taking place here - it simply wouldn't be safe.
Yes, I've also heard/read that some consideration was being given to the Mediterranean as an alternative race location - either Sardinia, Sicily or the Gulf of Naples.
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2017, 06:24:52 PM »
Yes, I've also heard/read that some consideration was being given to the Mediterranean as an alternative race location - either Sardinia, Sicily or the Gulf of Naples.

You wish!  It simply won't be anywhere other than here - the public wouldn't stand for it after what they've been through with having to watch racing in San Francisco and Bermuda via TV.

Offline BdHvA

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2017, 06:36:10 AM »
Between sailor types and those who have observed the America's cup there seems to a stronger sense to return to the National standard for the teams and designers.

It will be interesting what happens and I am fairly certain it will be along the coast of a land with more sheep than humans.
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Offline ML

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2017, 08:44:34 AM »

It will be interesting what happens and I am fairly certain it will be along the coast of a land with more sheep than humans.

What are the plans for dispersing the methane gas to less dangerous levels ?
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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2017, 08:52:32 AM »
Windmills ?

As a joke, they only work if there is wind . . . I suspect we all should eat more lamb, mutton or anything with a tail.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:55:09 AM by BdHvA »
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Offline JayH

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2017, 05:53:46 PM »
the americas cup yacht is now nothing like the old style of boats that used to compete

bit sad really how it has changed since we first won the cup of america in 83

SX
Larry 'Oracle' Ellison lost. Will he return I sort of doubt it.

Both senior Hardy and Connor seem to be happy with the reality that New Zeeland won (again). My guess we will see a more traditional event in four years time that reflect a more national team effort that returns the focus to one on one on the water match racing and national design skills in preparation. As a media event what was supposed to be a spectacle was a big bore. In fact it seems the mega yachts (J-boats) in some respects received more coverage in the press.

Other changes will be hard to estimate but there was a document circulated before the start of this event that team NZ refused sign the intent being to agree to keep the current format. NZ was the only to refuse, so there are certain to be changes.

The idea  that progess is a "bit sad"  is ridiculous.  The  interest back in 1983 when Australia broke the gerrymandered longest winning streak of 132 years in sporting history  was high because of the very much underdog status Australia had --not because of the excitement of the machinery itself.

Non sailors were perplexed -- as one journalist described the contest as "about as interesting as watching grass grow" !  Basically he was about right-- old fashioned boats as slow as treacle had little appeal or interest to non sailors. Only yesterdays people looking backwards thought it appropriate.( & still do!!) :)

Later -- after numerous mis -matches and ridiculously escalating costs Larry Ellison looked at the event with a non traditionalists eyes  and a modern commercial brain -- and envisaged the America's Cup as being an event more in the mould of  Formula 1  ( race cars) where the cutting edge of technology is on show -- and the ultimate form of a sport displayed.

Thus the event came to see the multi-hull concept on show in the event just decided. Previously -- a much larger cat with much wider rule parameters( & cost) was used. For 2017 in the effort to contain costs and make it possible for more countries to challenge and participate a substantial part of the design is "one design" with very specific unrestricted areas.

From an event perspective-- the "formula" worked very well . The final was anti climatic ( no one in NZ would think that!!) as a contest -- but for anyone that watched the prelims -- there was some entertaining contests throughout. 

Congrats to the NZedders ,once again they showed what a clever little country they are who punches well above it's size on sporting events.Also to be noted -- amongst contributors to this win was quite a cast of united nationalities  and resources .That very much reflects Larry Ellisons  vision and the reality of globalisation of knowledge and know how-- quite a contrast a contrast with the old stooges of The New York Yacht Club back in 1983 !

The skipper of the British challenger Ben Ainslie - comments below.


New Zealand must keep multihulls as they lead America's Cup into new era


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2017/06/27/new-zealand-must-keep-multihulls-lead-americas-cup-new-era/
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 06:03:39 PM by JayH »
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Offline JayH

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2017, 06:42:27 PM »
Quote from: SANDRO43 on June 26, 2017, 05:37:42 PM
running on average at a speed 3 times the actual wind
How is that possible.  Some law of physics violated ??

I will try and give a simple answer !!
As a boat moves forward -- what is called the apparent wind - dictates the achievable speed.
EG    if the  actual wind direction is coming from a right angle to the direction a boat is travelling at -- the boat will move forward --as it does so -- the direction the wind arrives across the deck is changed -to the "apparent" wind  the boat is reacting to . In fact--it also increases the wind pressure.In effect-- the faster the boat goes the higher the multiplier.
For the sake of the example -- that wind being felt is shifted to 45 degrees- making the sail plan meet the wind at a more efficient angle-- as well as at increased pressure. With the America's Cup current boats having no problem turning a a 7-8 knot actual wind into 32 knots of forward motion-- so now the guys on board are feeling wind 4 times stronger than the actual wind.

The more easily driven the boat is ie the less drag through the water --the faster it can move forward. Contrast an old fashioned lead mine ( as per 1983 Cup)  with the current boats -- back then they topped out at about a "massive" 6 knots  of  speed-- compared to the current boats over 40 knots.

A major part  of that is due to the foiling which lifts the hulls clear of the water , but also the much more powerful and efficient rig used.
For the sake of the example -- a conventional catamaran of a similar size -- would probable need a actual wind of twice the numbers indicated above-- to achieve a speed about 25% slower !
Whereas -- a 1983 Americas cup boat has a top speed of about 7 knots no matter how strong the wind is blowing!!!
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline ML

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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2017, 08:32:22 PM »
Probably true . . . but still sound like a load of crap to me.
Makes no sense at all.  Not what you wrote; but the actual outcome.
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Re: 35th AMERICA'S CUP to NZ
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2017, 09:02:45 PM »
Probably true . . . but still sound like a load of crap to me.
Makes no sense at all.  Not what you wrote; but the actual outcome.

I know it seems perplexing but the lift that is created by the wings (sails) is multiplied. It is the same basic rule that allows an airplane to fly (upward and forward).
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

 

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