Russian Women Discussion
RWD News From the Front => Ukrainian Front Discussion => Topic started by: JayH on May 20, 2016, 12:08:03 AM
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From time to time the chances of Ukraine recovering the Crimea are countenanced here on the forum, Our resident Russian "apologists" who persist in rationalising the Kremlin excesses keep chanting the party line "Crimean is Russian" and believe Russia will hold onto the Crimea.
In the last week very significant decisions were made in the USA that will have a profound affect on the ability of Ukraine to self determination and self preservation.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18966.msg431314;topicseen#msg431314
The sanctions are now really biting in Russia and more are questioning why they are there-and is it worth it. Putin and the Kremlin have believed they could out bluff the west-- and outlast sanctions. An obvious military setback in eastern Ukraine and the subsequent military pressure being place on the Crimea could well be the catalyst that leads Russia to face up to the reality of it's action.
As the Ukrainian political arena witnesses daily internal battles and the public is engaged in lively discussion over the new composition of the Cabinet or the appointment of a new prosecutor general, it seems that the people in Crimea have been left out of the Ukrainian information field, alone with their problems. Despite the fact that almost every week, there is an increasing number of reports of searches, arrests, and even disappearances of people (for the most part, Crimean Tatars) in the annexed territory, it seems that amid today's problems in resolving the internal political crisis, the issue of de-occupation of the peninsula has gone way down in Ukraine’s political agenda.
Prospects for Crimea return
It seems the no one, except Russia, has any doubt that Crimea is an integral part of Ukraine. But these are just words. Unfortunately, the reality is different. More than two years ago, Russia occupied the Ukrainian peninsula on the Black Sea. And Crimea must definitely be returned. But the slogans like "Crimea is Ukraine” are not enough.
http://www.unian.info/politics/1350447-prospects-for-crimea-return.html
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JayH
I'm here and the prospects of Russian man in the street 'giving up' Crimea are zip..
Putin has used Crimea to deflect from economic woes and only you and a few deluded Russians think sanctions are the main reason for the economic 'crisis' - which had started before the Kremlin 'away games'
YES, Russia agreed it was part of Ukraine
YES, they broke those agreements
BUT.... Putin has instilled a belief that their country is resurgent and the USA planned to deny this and plotted with corrupt Ukrainians to overthrow a legitimate President and NATO was going to get Crimean bases.
Russians believe any hardship is down TO the USA and until they wake up that the economy will always be in a mess every time oil prices fall - they won't /don't feel/ understand the outrage -generally felt outside Russia - for the 'away games'.
An example..Olya Kurylenko is from Berdyansk - Ukrainian, right ?...'No'..she's 'Russian'..when I point out the location of her birth city I'm regarded with the look a dog lover offers their beloved, but daft, pooch - 'it's all Russia, really'...I constantly get the feeling that it's. '' Mark ... you're a nice guy - you don't understand..''
Patriotism, is running high, here - Putin has linked the Soviet victories over Nazi Fascism with new Russian 'power' and the Communists may be using Stalin in their campaign in elections
THAT is pretty scary..
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Being polite-- you restate the Russian positions and attitude. plus the complications.
Your premise is that nothing will change in Russia( & Ukraine)- that is the cornerstone of all of the Russian attitude.
Much as you don't like it-- but the forum has detailed the internal bad news for Russia extensively. Eventually that crisis will spill over.
That is saying it as simply as I can.
In Ukraine itself-- the smartest idea has been to reform the country and make it a better place to live- and thus- desirable. That really is a major point--that in itself will counter all the Russian propaganda . Right now--it is tough for Ukrainians-- but in reality better than 5 years ago already. For those who have seen Ukraine in this period -it has changed noticeably. And yes-it has a long way to go.
Needless to say--the Russian invasion and attempts to disrupt Ukraine in every way possible has not helped. Ironically ifor the immediate future--it may have been a positive for Ukraine. eg no longer beholden to Russia over gas and oil ,
I can go on--but my point is clear enough.
I do wonder how your Russian man on the street is going to react when it dawns on him the degree of lying that has been done. How many Russians need to be sent home in body bags, How he will react when the "mighty" Russian military machine gets its arse kicked out of eastern Ukraine-- and then Ukraine finally stands up to Russia over the invasion of the .Crimea.
Your Russian man on the street is unlikely to have much say in overturning the Kremlin craziness--but his view will affect those who are capable of doing something.
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you restate the Russian positions and attitude. plus the complications.
Your premise is that nothing will change in Russia( & Ukraine)- that is the cornerstone of all of the Russian attitude.
Well, you already misrepresented my explaining the stance of the maj. of people - based on govt misdirection - my opinion .. if that was being 'polite' ;)
Much as you don't like it-- but the forum has detailed the internal bad news for Russia extensively. Eventually that crisis will spill over.
That is saying it as simply as I can.
Now, you presume to suggest I'm an 'apologist' for Kremlin 'away games' ? :D
You are telling it as you see it - taking no account of my advising you that there is not the remotest sign of any 'guilt / remorse / contrition - or change of heart...let alone 'agreeing' that targeted sanctions on those supporting the 'away games' are affecting the man in the street- which is how the Kremlin want man in the street to feel ;D
In Ukraine itself-- the smartest idea has been to reform the country and make it a better place to live- and thus- desirable. That really is a major point--that in itself will counter all the Russian propaganda .
That's admirable - but how is taking positive action in Ukraine 'countering' the opinion of Russian man in the street ?
Right now--it is tough for Ukrainians-- but in reality better than 5 years ago already. For those who have seen Ukraine in this period -it has changed noticeably. And yes-it has a long way to go.
Needless to say--the Russian invasion and attempts to disrupt Ukraine in every way possible has not helped. Ironically ifor the immediate future--it may have been a positive for Ukraine. eg no longer beholden to Russia over gas and oil ,
I can go on--but my point is clear enough.
I wholeheartedly agree that Ukrainians need a roots up anti-corruption drive and a frozen civil war in the east and Crimea's 'removal' don't help.
But ...Your point, seems to be to deflect from the point you raised ... 'prospects for Crimea return'
That is zip - unless Russian man in the street accepts how it was done was wrong and any future [ agreed referendum ] would still bring about a majority for being Russian.
Far better that Russia pays compensation and allows folk from there to remain Ukrainian passport holders and campaign for fair treatment of indigenous minorities.
Too much of the 'bad news' you and AKMike post is more wishful thinking ..... People here, aren't blaming the govt. and when / if they do ... THEN you might have a point ..
I'm - whether we like it or not - describing the mood as it exists. Crimea 'isn't coming back' and compensation for assets lost / seized / misappropriated needs to be formulated.
I agree that sanctions must remain - in principle - until Kremlin 'away games' are acknowledged and compensation agreed
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Well, you already misrepresented my explaining the stance of the maj. of people - based on govt misdirection - my opinion .. if that was being 'polite' ;)
Now, you presume to suggest I'm an 'apologist' for Kremlin 'away games' ? :D
You are telling it as you see it - taking no account of my advising you that there is not the remotest sign of any 'guilt / remorse / contrition - or change of heart...let alone 'agreeing' that targeted sanctions on those supporting the 'away games' are affecting the man in the street- which is how the Kremlin want man in the street to feel ;D
That's admirable - but how is taking positive action in Ukraine 'countering' the opinion of Russian man in the street ?
I wholeheartedly agree that Ukrainians need a roots up anti-corruption drive and a frozen civil war in the east and Crimea's 'removal' don't help.
But ...Your point, seems to be to deflect from the point you raised ... 'prospects for Crimea return'
That is zip - unless Russian man in the street accepts how it was done was wrong and any future [ agreed referendum ] would still bring about a majority for being Russian.
Far better that Russia pays compensation and allows folk from there to remain Ukrainian passport holders and campaign for fair treatment of indigenous minorities.
Too much of the 'bad news' you and AKMike post is more wishful thinking ..... People here, aren't blaming the govt. and when / if they do ... THEN you might have a point ..
I'm - whether we like it or not - describing the mood as it exists. Crimea 'isn't coming back' and compensation for assets lost / seized / misappropriated needs to be formulated.
I agree that sanctions must remain - in principle - until Kremlin 'away games' are acknowledged and compensation agreed
+1
Jay you are clueless when it comes to the opinions and attitudes of the Russian people.
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+1
Jay you are clueless when it comes to the opinions and attitudes of the Russian people.
Actually-- I think it is the likes of you and Moby who is clueless on the topic.
You and a lot of others think they are clueless morons--if you bother to actually read what I ( that is me-- as in I ) said it is a little different to that.
What I am sure of-- all of you who see the sun shining out out of Putin ARE COMPLETELY CLUELESS ON THE OPINIONS AND ATTITUDES OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.
Not too long ago you would have been trying to tell us"Ukrainians will not fight Russia" etc.
It is like you swallow Putins line-- we are all Russian people type crap-- and ignore the fact that he has permanently changed Ukrainians opinions.
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Jay you are clueless when it comes to the opinions and attitudes of the Russian people.
I would dare to suggest he is clueless also about what Ukrainians really think about Donbass and Crimea and takes all they're saying him in all good faith. That's a problem for expats with low level of critical thinking and limited access to inner social circles except his family.
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Actually-- I think it is the likes of you and Moby who is clueless on the topic.
You and a lot of others think they are clueless morons--if you bother to actually read what I ( that is me-- as in I ) said it is a little different to that.
What I am sure of-- all of you who see the sun shining out out of Putin ARE COMPLETELY CLUELESS ON THE OPINIONS AND ATTITUDES OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.
Not too long ago you would have been trying to tell us"Ukrainians will not fight Russia" etc.
It is like you swallow Putins line-- we are all Russian people type crap-- and ignore the fact that he has permanently changed Ukrainians opinions.
I don't think anyone here has hailed Putin as a hero. I have been to Ukraine several times since Maidan and have numerous contacts there so I am VERY familiar with the thoughts of the Ukrainians.
Jay, you just aren't as much of an expert as you think you are. You need to study the situation comprehensively.
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Crimea Return to Ukraine?
Hahahahahahahahahahahah......hahahahahahahaha.
What's Next from the intellectual midget? Even his Brothers in arms is trying to guide him into the real world, so far in vain.
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Russia has opened such a can of worms by annexing Crimea:
Cash outlay per year: 17 Billion (estimates given over the past two years - amalgamated - include Bridge project, laying out electric grid, lack of tax collected, etc. Does not include loss of revenue from redirected tourists.)
Annexation of Crimea siphons off Russian Speakers / Russian Nationals vote away from opposition to current Kyiv government, making future elections of such Russian advocates unelectable.
Nationalistic spirit from Crimea acquisition draining in Crimea as tourism is relegated to Russians who lack significant funds to make use of it ... and might be more inclined to choose developed Sochi.
Crimeans operate with a lower standard of living than they experienced under Ukraine. Access to social services, infrastructure at a significant drop compared to expectations upon annexation.
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My dads doctor is from crimea..
She was happy when she heard the news...
No Ukrainian I spoke to during my trips.. thought East Ukraine or Crimea.. would return to Ukraine...
I am sure their are many who would disagree...
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Jay, it will be a long time, if ever, for Crimea to be returned.
Russia was dishonest and pathetic in the way the illegal annexation was carried out, but it was done. Kyiv would be wise to, someday when Moscow is exhausted, to broker an agreement that Crimea can stay in hell and the demons of Satan will pull out of Donbas.
But, that may take awhile.
I got a good laugh the other day when having lunch with a well-known businessman. He wanted to set me straight about how "historically" Crimea has supposedly belonged to Russia. I reminded him of the time of Russian possession compared with Turkish and Greek possession. Russia seems so small and insignificant when those facts are revealed. He turned white and changed the subject.
Even so, not only will this not change, but Russia's possession of Crimea is a prison sentence rather than a victory. Let them rot with that stinking dead pig wrapped around the Bear's neck.
I only feel badly for the real inhabitants--the persecuted Tatars.
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Let's be Honest,,
In West Ukraine Their are " Pure Ukrainians" = only speak Ukrainian...
In the Far East their are Russian-Ukrainians = Mostly speak only Russian...
In the center of the country you have more Ukrainian-Russians - = Speak a mix of Ukrainian and Russian..
In the West the Communist Party is Banned...
In The East... The Hard Line Communists Joined the fight against Kiev and the Oligarchs...
Nazi like, organizations went West and Joined Kiev....
The True Enemy of Ukraine is the oligarchs..
The True Enemy of Russia is the Oligarchs,,,
Their is a serious divide in side the country,,,
Ukrainian Government wants peace.. But they only push more war..
The War is good for the Ukrainian Oligarchs...
They make money, while the Poor Ukrainian is sent to the front with little training or supplies..
The Current government in Kiev is a joke....
Corruption is worst than before..
The economy is going the way of Greece...
I can not see Ukraine recovering.. Until the Oligarchs are destroyed..
This will require a real revolution,,, Not pushed by the Far Right and the USA state department...
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Darth_Budda!
How dare you write the most intelligent comment ever posted on this board! I was hoping to do that, but now it's too late!
I liked all the videos from the "war" where the volunteers are all saying after the conflict is over in the East, the next battle will be in Kyiv, maybe that's why the war isn't over yet?
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In West Ukraine Their are " Pure Ukrainians" = only speak Ukrainian...
Almost every Ukrainian, even in the West, uses Russian words. The result of half a century of policies of Russification.
In the center of the country you have more Ukrainian-Russians - = Speak a mix of Ukrainian and Russian..
Some can speak Ukrainian. Some can speak Russian. Many, mostly escapees, speak Surzhik. Relatively few can speak both Ukrainian and Russian.
In the West the Communist Party is Banned...
No, it is banned nation wide. That came 2 decades too late, though.
In The East... The Hard Line Communists Joined the fight against Kiev and the Oligarchs...
And who do you think those hard line communists are? Same oligarchs, just serving a different master.
Nazi like, organizations went West and Joined Kiev....
A myth perpetuated by one side.
The True Enemy of Ukraine is the oligarchs..
I'll agree with that.
The Current government in Kiev is a joke....
Corruption is worst than before..
The economy is going the way of Greece...
I agree the current government is corrupt. But it is no more corrupt than any of its predecessors.
As for Crimea, it is not coming back. Sanctions should stay in place. But, I don't know why Ukraine would want it back. It was always a net drain on Kyiv.
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Here is Jay again roaming in Wonderland.
I doubt very much anyone here would accuse me of being a Russian apologist but, what Jay wrote is totally asinine. The man has no clue of the word "geopolitics" and he posts wishful thinking from left field as "facts."
I won't say Crimea will never return to Ukranine but I can say with certainty it will not happen in our lifetime.
Also, Ukraine is much better off by losing that ballast and having Russia pick it up.
Now, if the people could only deport all the (corrupt) potiticians to Devil's Island, then the country may have a chance.
And Jay, please, refrain from posting nonsense. It's becoming tiresome.
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Actually-- I think it is the likes of you and Moby who is clueless on the topic.
JayH - I was giving you the perspective of Russian man in the street and why the Kremlin - under current leadership, probably any leadership - will NEVER give Crimea back.
If this makes me 'clueless' - so be it - I've been labelled a 'russiophobe' - ''shouldn't have my visa renewed''- on the same day - such is life on internet forums ;)
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Here is Jay again roaming in Wonderland.
I doubt very much anyone here would accuse me of being a Russian apologist but, what Jay wrote is totally asinine. The man has no clue of the word "geopolitics" and he posts wishful thinking from left field as "facts."
I won't say Crimea will never return to Ukranine but I can say with certainty it will not happen in our lifetime.
Also, Ukraine is much better off by losing that ballast and having Russia pick it up.
Now, if the people could only deport all the (corrupt) potiticians to Devil's Island, then the country may have a chance.
And Jay, please, refrain from posting nonsense. It's becoming tiresome.
Actually you are the clueless one!
Hopefully president Trump is going to put enough pressure on Putin to give up Crimea. There is no sense arguing with you over the illegal seizure of Crimea to start with, so I won't waste my time trying.
For someone that supported Obama and Clinton, you aren't exactly an example of the brightest star in the galaxy. :D
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Actually you are the clueless one!
:D
clueless ones haven't figured out that the Kremlin would love to have Trump as President - or why ...
Viz
Hopefully president Trump is going to put enough pressure on Putin to give up Crimea. There is no sense arguing with you over the illegal seizure of Crimea to start with, so I won't waste my time trying.
Do tell us what sort of 'pressure' - 'coz only military victory would achieve Russia's removal...
For someone that supported Obama and Clinton, you aren't exactly an example of the brightest star in the galaxy. :D
Not all members make this USA v Russia - I expect you don't read Russian news - as if you did - you'd have 'got' that is how this is portrayed.
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I would dare to suggest he is clueless also about what Ukrainians really think about Donbass and Crimea and takes all they're saying him in all good faith. That's a problem for expats with low level of critical thinking and limited access to inner social circles except his family.
Such an endorsement on cluelessness is comic coming from you-- have you yet conceded that it is and was Russian troops who invaded Ukraine?
Perhaps you can let us all know again how the Russian military got to be in Ukraine!
The "problem" is that you know zero who I talk to in Ukraine--or anywhere else for that matter.
I am in no doubt that my critical thinking is being done from a far wider range and more diverse groups of people than you could possibly conceive.
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JayH - I was giving you the perspective of Russian man in the street and why the Kremlin - under current leadership, probably any leadership - will NEVER give Crimea back.
If this makes me 'clueless' - so be it - I've been labelled a 'russiophobe' - ''shouldn't have my visa renewed''- on the same day - such is life on internet forums ;)
Moby-- you and others giving the Russian "man on the street's" view are comic. We all have a grasp on what he thinks- currently.
Take note of that word.
If you-and others actually read what I said-- and the article says.
I have never suggested that Russia was going to willingly "just" give it back as things stand today.
That point is also addressed to a number of other posters in thread.
What is suggested was the potential for circumstances that would change the current situation-- as does the article referenced.
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:D
Do tell us what sort of 'pressure' - 'coz only military victory would achieve Russia's removal...
Not all members make this USA v Russia - I expect you don't read Russian news - as if you did - you'd have 'got' that is how this is portrayed.
The "Russian" news you read is clearly different to the news about Russia others see !!
Ironic that you raise the USA v Russia-- who does Russia and Russian hold responsible for the current ills? That would be the USofA !!
While I am at it-- "your man on the Russian street" whose opinions you advance-- would he be the "friends" who own the limo you were cruising in? Or the chauffeur? Or perhaps it was one of the $200m Yacht owners you were gawking at-- or maybe just a more simple man on the street who can afford to holiday in Sochi- and pay for Yacht charters?
Yeah right-- I can see these are just ordinary Russians-at least by yours and FatherTimes definition!! And you called him clueless-at least that part you got right!
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Actually you are the clueless one!
Hopefully president Trump is going to put enough pressure on Putin to give up Crimea. There is no sense arguing with you over the illegal seizure of Crimea to start with, so I won't waste my time trying.
For someone that supported Obama and Clinton, you aren't exactly an example of the brightest star in the galaxy. :D
Given Trump has praised Putin at every turn, it is more likely that, in the unlikely event Trump is elected, the virtual blow jobs will continue unabated. Crimea would not be on Trump's radar. In fact, he'd probably look for a way to remove existing sanctions.
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Whoever wins in the US I hope that it will result in far more pro-active role in Ukraine.As commented above--that is no certainty-- but also quite unclear at this time.
As referenced in other recent post links there is a general groundswell to do more than Obama has done. It has only been the resistance of Obama's immediate advisers that has prevented direct military aid. The belief that sanctions could make Putin and Russia see sense-- did not take into account that the Kremlin does not care what Russians think--there is no democratic process to concern them.
Instead-they embarked on the biggest propaganda promotion of outright lies to lay a smoke screen in the attempt to confuse the issues. Even in this thread-- lot's of evidence of the success of that propaganda.
The bully needs to be treated with the same contempt he has shown the rest of the world.
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The "problem" is that you know zero who I talk to in Ukraine--or anywhere else for that matter.
I am in no doubt that my critical thinking is being done from a far wider range and more diverse groups of people than you could possibly conceive.
Nobody cares who you pretend to 'talk to'...the most likely scenario is people roll their eyes and try to walk the other way if you are seen early enough......It is obvious that you don't have any ability to think critically in any event. Almost all of what you copy and paste is complete gibberish...
Fathertime!
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Almost all of what you copy and paste is complete gibberish...
JayH 's posts reflect a wish.. prrobably unrealistic .. but I do read them...
Your's on the other hand are purely to gain a reaction...
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Your's on the other hand are purely to gain a reaction...
Well thanks for your reaction then! Actually the points I adhere to are generally agreed to by a minority of posters and people, which is ok by me.... Jayh, generally posts fiction cloaked as fact. You generally start jumping up and down when a differing viewpoint/worldview is brought forth!
Fathertime!
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My wife read about Putin having to say many good things about Trump. When ex leader of the KKK endorsed Trump, he's too stupid to understand his endorsement will lose votes for Trump. Putin is not stupid. Putin and Russia's endorsement of Trump will hurt Trump's chances to win so they continually endorse him. Putin prefers somebody like Obama.
Trump knows business but he's still learning immigration and foreign policy. Trump is a person that can change his mind when he's wrong. I've seen him starting to have more sensible views on how to handle immigration and in his campaign ad below, he lumps Putin and ISIS together. We all know what Trump wants to do with ISIS. Apparently someone is educating Trump on the kind of person Putin is and Trump doesn't like threats to America.
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/vladimir-putin-is-angry-with-donald-trump-after-a-campaign-video-likening-him-to-isis--Z1xmwesj1b
Even with Trump as president, I don't think he will help Ukraine retake Crimea. America's friends in Europe are only willing to sanction Russia and that may end in July when it's due for a vote to be abolished or extended. Ukraine has not shown enough willingness to clean up their own corrupt system for the West to want to help. The police force got an overhaul but the politicians won't overhaul within themselves.
Almost every Ukrainian, even in the West, uses Russian words. The result of half a century of policies of Russification.
Russian and English words are incorporated into Ukrainian language as new words are developed with the invention of products but if someone is speaking Russian in the far West Ukraine, they may get a lecture to use their own language. In the far far West Ukraine some people are speak Polish. Went to a church and the priest was speaking in Polish.
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JayH 's posts reflect a wish.. prrobably unrealistic .. but I do read them...
Your's on the other hand are purely to gain a reaction...
It is a waste of space acknowledging his existence.The troll only purpose here is to divert threads to be about him-- and to divert the discussion.. He is like a little kid `ostracised by his peers jumping up and down and crying "what about me".
Even today--he wonders how some on forum know facts not apparent to him-the concept that most on the forum are real people with real lives seems to escape him.Part of that is the respect shown by forum members to other members with confidences shared -- and not disclosed in the open forum.
Easiest to ignore his trolling and not give it air--ignore him. :)
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It is a waste of space acknowledging his existence.The troll only purpose here is to divert threads to be about him-- and to divert the discussion.. He is like a little kid `ostracised by his peers jumping up and down and crying "what about me".
Even today--he wonders how some on forum know facts not apparent to him-the concept that most on the forum are real people with real lives seems to escape him.Part of that is the respect shown by forum members to other members with confidences shared -- and not disclosed in the open forum.
Easiest to ignore his trolling and not give it air--ignore him. :)
Haha! You seem to have a terrible time ignoring me! By all means, continue with the goofy, factually incorrect posts/links...and i'll occasionally chime in and make you angry.
Fathertime!
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Trump has stated Crimea is Europe's problem -
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/doanld-trump-crimea-europe-problem/
so, I suspect there would not be much traction of a Trump presidency going to the boards for Ukraine on this issue.
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Very good article on the Trump, including his campaign insiders' links to Putin -
http://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/authoritarian-impulses-with-marketing-savviness-trump-presidency-would-be-a-looming-disaster (http://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/authoritarian-impulses-with-marketing-savviness-trump-presidency-would-be-a-looming-disaster)
Diane Francis now lives in Toronto, but originally is from Chicago.
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Very good article on the Trump, including his campaign insiders' links to Putin -
http://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/authoritarian-impulses-with-marketing-savviness-trump-presidency-would-be-a-looming-disaster (http://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/authoritarian-impulses-with-marketing-savviness-trump-presidency-would-be-a-looming-disaster)
Boethius, this is not the Political thread but the comment is political. Both Hillary and Donald are covered with warts. So why write about Trump's warts and ignore Hillary's warts, which are bigger, uglier, and more plentiful.
For example, Diane Francis mentions Trump retained a campaign strategist who made money in the past consulting for Putin's cronies. Did Trump gain financially from the connection? No. Hillary OTOH through the Clinton Foundation pocketed millions in selling favors while in an appointed position with a clear conflict of interest. We will hear more about the latter, and not so much about the former.
Trump does run his mouth before he has all the facts. However, he is still campaigning and this is what candidates do when campaigning, some more than others. Did Diane Francis criticize Obama for doing the same, when he was a sitting President and not campaigning? I doubt it.
There is more. Not necessary to discuss now because it will be brought out repeatedly in one ugly campaign between now and November.
Diane Francis did write something very interesting:
Facts are Trump is not the cause but the symptom of flaws in America’s dysfunctional political architecture. Its pitfall is an American Idol selection process and fixed terms as opposed to the discipline of parliamentary consensus building kept honest by the threat of snap elections.
BC mentioned the same in one of his posts. Question - Why did Diane Francis not use Hillary as well as Trump in making her point. Facts are the American nomination process for both parties did not select character and values. In Trump's case, a number of voters felt ignored not only by Obama but by their elected Republicans, so they hijacked the nomination process and selected someone who seems like a fighter. In Clinton's case, the nomination was decided by a multitude of establishment insiders such as Debbie Wasserman Schultz - it was "rigged" using Bernie's words.
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The point of the links was not for a debate about US politics. It was about the assertion President Trump will compel Putin to return Crimea to Ukraine.
Given his campaign advisor's links to Russian politics, and Trump's own statements, the likelihood of that occurring is negligible, at best.
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Growing dissatisfaction with Russian rule in one of the tenants of the article in the op above.
There are many issues and growing all the time for Crimean residents.
An overwhelmingly indisputable fact is that for even Crimeans that supported the Russian invasion--it is not what they thought they were getting.
Eat fruits of Russian life!
"And now, with Russia, they are faced with numerous restrictions Well, let him partake of the fruits of Russian life. That this stock Ukrainian nostalgia and memory play in favor of Ukraine. I do not think they will be as patient as the Russians in Russia. There's nothing going on for several centuries. A Crimeans still remember the good life "
http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/vkushajte-plody-rossyjskoj-zhyzny-professor-sprognozyroval-na-skolko-hvatyt-terpenyya-u-krymchan/
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Darth's post was neither honest, nor intelligent. It was a post from someone with a position from ignorance from reality.
Here is a dose of reality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHArB0uXYco
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The leader of the Russian nationalist movement “Russians” Dmitry Demushkin finds a huge mistake the annexation of Crimea by Russia.
Russian nationalist: Annexing Crimea, Putin opened the way for the disintegration of Russia
“I think that Putin made an epic mistake and risky undertaking. Revising the borders of Europe is unlawful, especially for Russia, for the Russian Federation is the largest and the most unoccupied state in the world. From Baikal to Kamchatka there is no people and nothing at all. And revising the world and borders by right of the strong is a “Trojan horse”, which could not be touched. The precedent of revising borders is dangerous especially for the Russian Federation, because the notion of “the Russian land” is very relative,” he said in an interview.
http://en.sobytiya.info/russian-nationalist-annexing-crimea-putin-opened-the-way-for-the-disintegration-of-russia.html
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Given Trump has praised Putin at every turn, it is more likely that, in the unlikely event Trump is elected, the virtual blow jobs will continue unabated. Crimea would not be on Trump's radar. In fact, he'd probably look for a way to remove existing sanctions.
LMFAO
I couldn't have said it any better.
I tell you, it is mind-boggling the lack of critical thinking you see around here. Starting with J.
Oh and BTW, I thought I was on his ignore list. I knew he couldn't stay away. :blowkiss:
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The point of the links was not for a debate about US politics. It was about the assertion President Trump will compel Putin to return Crimea to Ukraine.
Given his campaign advisor's links to Russian politics, and Trump's own statements, the likelihood of that occurring is negligible, at best.
Ah but, you slandered his Danny boy. Tsk Tsk.
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Link has many stories and updates from Crimea
News Krymnasha
http://crimeaua1.wordpress.com/2016/06/07/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA-573-%D0%B7%D0%B0-07-06-2016-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8/
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Well thanks for your reaction then! Actually the points I adhere to are generally agreed to by a minority of posters and people, which is ok by me.... Jayh, generally posts fiction cloaked as fact. You generally start jumping up and down when a differing viewpoint/worldview is brought forth!
:D
I particularly jump on posters with 'differing world view opinions' when they've
1/ never been to the places we discuss
2/ posted daft generalisations - purely to stir the pot..offering nothing..
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:D
I particularly jump on posters with 'differing world view opinions' when they've
1/ never been to the places we discuss
2/ posted daft generalisations - purely to stir the pot..offering nothing..
I'm sure you represent the world view of the professional sunbathers rather nicely...but who really cares? I'll call em how I see him too, and it is with great delight when it differs from the likes of you. :D
Fathertime!
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I'm sure you represent the world view of the professional sunbathers rather nicely...but who really cares?
You aren't even that observant when in attempted 'acerbic wit' mode - the professional sunbather' is t'other half ... :D
I'll call em how I see him too, and it is with great delight when it differs from the likes of you. :D
The 'likes of me' - who've actually been to the places you - pontificate about... having 'read it on the internet ' ? ....
Why don't you start a thread about some element of FSU - instead of demonstrating your boredom ?
I guess the closest you'll get - with any 'expertise' is Cuba .... But it would be so refreshing to see you put your grey matter into something constructive...
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You aren't even that observant when in attempted 'acerbic wit' mode - the professional sunbather' is t'other half ... :D
You mean you are merely the chauffeur for the professional sunbather? :)
Why don't you start a thread about some element of FSU - instead of demonstrating your boredom ?
I guess the closest you'll get - with any 'expertise' is Cuba .... But it would be so refreshing to see you put your grey matter into something constructive...
Amazing how clueless you are considering how much you guys have sunbathed in these countries you are an 'expert' in!
Fathertime!
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You mean you are merely the chauffeur for the professional sunbather? :)
The 'pro bather' - sun and sea - can drive herself.... I merely enjoy the results ... ( as she won't listen to the dangers of skin cancer ) ...
Amazing how clueless you are considering how much you guys have sunbathed in these countries you are an 'expert' in!
I haven't even sunbathed in the Falklands or Crimea.. but we saw how 'deep' your knowledge was / is ...
Looking forward to you shocking the members with something positive - Which are you ?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Statler_and_Waldorf.jpg)
Statler or Waldorf
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The 'pro bather' - sun and sea - can drive herself.... I merely enjoy the results ... ( as she won't listen to the dangers of skin cancer ) ...
That is great, but you are giving her a mixed message then! I know you love to hear this sort of thing, even when it isn't malicious. :D
Fathertime!
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Often comments are made about what Ukrainian people want or believed at various times.
These stats are worth a look again- people constantly state incorrect unsubstantiated numbers in posts.These links are from May 2014-- a period when Kyiv was still trying to exert a new direction over Ukraine-- so did not have the benefit of people seeing new directions.Much of the dissatisfaction with Kyiv-in fact dated from the dissatisfaction with the Yanukovych era,
Despite Concerns about Governance, Ukrainians Want to Remain One Country
Among Ukrainians, 77% say Ukraine should remain united, compared with 14% who think regions should be permitted to secede if they so desire. In Ukraine’s west, which includes the central region around Kyiv (Kiev), as well as portions of the country that border Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, more than nine-in-ten (93%) think their nation should remain unified. A smaller majority (70%) in the country’s east – which includes areas along the Black Sea and the border with Russia – also prefer unity. Only in the breakaway territory of Crimea do more than half (54%) voice support for the right to secede.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/
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Over 100,000 have fled Crimea for Ukraine (which represents a little over 5% of the population), and requests for help leaving Crimea have increased recently.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/11/100000-flee-crimea-as-russia-tightens-grip/
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This is a blog post so take it at face value if you wish to, telling about the conditions in Krym under Russian occupation., It's not good
You'll need to use your translator.
http://glavpost.com/post/19jul2016/blogs/91925-elizaveta-boguckaya-krym-futbolkami-s-putinym-moyut-poly.html (http://glavpost.com/post/19jul2016/blogs/91925-elizaveta-boguckaya-krym-futbolkami-s-putinym-moyut-poly.html)
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This is a blog post so take it at face value if you wish to, telling about the conditions in Krym under Russian occupation., It's not good
You'll need to use your translator.
http://glavpost.com/post/19jul2016/blogs/91925-elizaveta-boguckaya-krym-futbolkami-s-putinym-moyut-poly.html (http://glavpost.com/post/19jul2016/blogs/91925-elizaveta-boguckaya-krym-futbolkami-s-putinym-moyut-poly.html)
Don't forget to translate comments below :P
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Trump states he would look at recognizing Crimea as Russian territory and ending sanctions -
http://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-to-look-at-recognizing-crimea-as-russian-territory-lifting-sanctions-putin/
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Trump states he would look at recognizing Crimea as Russian territory and ending sanctions -
http://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-to-look-at-recognizing-crimea-as-russian-territory-lifting-sanctions-putin/ (http://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-to-look-at-recognizing-crimea-as-russian-territory-lifting-sanctions-putin/)
The fact that Trump is likely going to take the position I held, won't stop the 'patriotic' Trump voters from voting for him! They will contort however much is necessary to manufacture some justification! :popcorn:
Ironically, I don't think Hillary would be so lax with Russia.
Fathertime!
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Just talked to my wife and MIL an hour ago on this issue after they freaked that Trump is going to recognize Crimea as Russian territory. I told them don't believe everything journalists write. I googled what Trump said and after asked by someone if he recognizes Crimea to be Russia's and if he'll lift the sanctions, Trump replied he'd be looking into that. That is not a yes or no answer. We all know Trump is not up to speed on foreign policy or immigration so when he doesn't know an answer, he'll say he'll look into that. That's better than shooting his mouth off and giving an answer to something he hasn't got a clue about. Now if you guys were running for president and someone asked you about if the Zimbo tribes rights to greater autonomy in Cameroon is valid, would you reply "yes" or "no"? Or would you give an honest answer of concern over the issue by saying "I'm going to look into that."?
I don't like Trump as a presidential candidate. I've beaten him up on this forum many times over things he's said, how he says things, and some of his ideas but it's unethical reporting when journalists start writing articles implying Trump supports something when it's not true.
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The fact that Trump is likely going to take the position I held, won't stop the 'patriotic' Trump voters from voting for him! They will contort however much is necessary to manufacture some justification! :popcorn:
Ironically, I don't think Hillary would be so lax with Russia.
Fathertime!
:ROFL:
I bet you are really enjoying this. ;D
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It is funny.
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What I like best about that "article" is this comment afterwards from some guy called Robert:
Oh come on! Allow me to translate his answer to the Crimea question: “I have no idea who Crimea is or what you are talking about.”
That sums it up.
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It is interesting that Clinton will likely show a much harder stance on Crimea and Donbass than Trump. I bet that was quite unexpected, especially for the GOP. I am finding the GOP is being very quiet at the moment.. or am I missing something? Maybe just 'quiet before the storm' if by chance he is elected and if not back to business as usual bashing Putin and calling for more sanctions?
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I fully subscribe that Clinton would retain the current position of the US, or strengthen it, concerning Ukraine. But I don't think that anyone knows what Trump would do if he were POTUS. That's the ongoing problem.
We really don't have a clue.
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We really don't have a clue.
I have a clue . . . but I'm not telling.
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Sadly, most of the world does not care about the Russian seizure of Crimea.
The world is taking a slow, multi-year approach to stopping something as dangerous as ISIS, so why up the stakes in Crimea. After 9-11, how long did it take to run OBL out of Afghanistan into an underground rathole.
If Trump is elected and relaxes the stance against Russia, don't you believe Russia would have to concede something very important.
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If Trump is elected and relaxes the stance against Russia, don't you believe Russia would have to concede something very important.
Absolutely not Crimea.. Putin has said discussion over, it's not a topic that will be put on the table.
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For several months (yes, MONTHS) leading up to the annexation of Crimea, the Russian Security Council had authorized and paid for polling to be done locally in Crimea on how voters would react to the idea of leaving Ukraine.
Even with a ballot that had no option of remaining within Ukraine, and even though many citizens who came to vote with Ukrainian passports were turned away at the polling stations, the vote was not quite what Moscow had hoped.
In a classic case of stupidity one could only imagine back in Soviet times, the local election officials at first reported that the vote to leave Ukraine and join Russia won by a 128% majority in Sevastopol. It didn't take long for Moscow to tell the idiots in Sevastopol that reporting a 128% majority was monumentally retarded.
More recently however, the President's (Russia) Council on Civil Society and Human Rights in Moscow made a similar mistake. They reported the actual voting figures. Oops. It went up online, and was taken down soon thereafter, but not before a couple of TV reporters made screenshots.
The world was told during the invasion of Crimea that the turnout was 83% of registered voters, with 97% of votes cast in favour of annexation.
The numbers revealed by the official President's Human Right Council are much different. Citing Russian Central Election Commission figures (don't you think it a bit odd that the Russian CEC conducted the voting in what was at the time another nation?) the turnout of registered voters was just over 40%. Of those voters, Sevastopol led the way with 55 percent voting for annexation. When you take Crimea as a whole, not just Sevastopol, the number of Crimean's who voted for annexation was 22.5 percent.
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WOW Mendy, that is really interesting.
Not that it will make any difference for Russians.
The best we can hope for is that it will make a difference to people in other countries of the world, and for leaders like Trump who have said something like "well they had a vote and wanted to join Russia."
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When you take Crimea as a whole, not just Sevastopol, the number of Crimean's who voted for annexation was 22.5 percent.
!!!!!
Remind me again, wasn't there only two choices on the ballot. What were exact choices?
And only a 40% turnout.
Since the election and annexation, have many people moved from Crimea?
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The turnout may have been much higher, but most voters who came with Ukrainian passports were turned away.
Gator, the two options were:
- Should Crimea leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation as a member of the federation?
- Should Crimea leave Ukraine and become a semi-independent protectorate territory of the Russian Federation?
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For several months (yes, MONTHS) leading up to the annexation of Crimea, the Russian Security Council had authorized and paid for polling to be done locally in Crimea on how voters would react to the idea of leaving Ukraine.
Even with a ballot that had no option of remaining within Ukraine, and even though many citizens who came to vote with Ukrainian passports were turned away at the polling stations, the vote was not quite what Moscow had hoped.
In a classic case of stupidity one could only imagine back in Soviet times, the local election officials at first reported that the vote to leave Ukraine and join Russia won by a 128% majority in Sevastopol. It didn't take long for Moscow to tell the idiots in Sevastopol that reporting a 128% majority was monumentally retarded.
More recently however, the President's (Russia) Council on Civil Society and Human Rights in Moscow made a similar mistake. They reported the actual voting figures. Oops. It went up online, and was taken down soon thereafter, but not before a couple of TV reporters made screenshots.
The world was told during the invasion of Crimea that the turnout was 83% of registered voters, with 97% of votes cast in favour of annexation.
The numbers revealed by the official President's Human Right Council are much different. Citing Russian Central Election Commission figures (don't you think it a bit odd that the Russian CEC conducted the voting in what was at the time another nation?) the turnout of registered voters was just over 40%. Of those voters, Sevastopol led the way with 55 percent voting for annexation. When you take Crimea as a whole, not just Sevastopol, the number of Crimean's who voted for annexation was 22.5 percent.
Not wishing to pump my own tyres to much--BUT-- I have said all along that the numbers people generally quoted (people here and in media generally) were wildly overestimating support for Russia etc.-both on Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
My sources on many issues on attitudes,beliefs,preferences etc of Ukrainians have proved to be remarkably accurate in retrospect.This was not guesswork--but based on real surveying and the interpretation of data being done concurrently.Crimea had been an area of specific interest in 2013.. Often -those conclusions were quite different to others.What I have heard and seen personally and anecdotally has supported the information I SAW first hand.
One of the major problems facing the truth is the mountain and sheer volume of propaganda perpetrated by the Kremlin and it's troll army-- throw so much stuff out there it equals confusion and scepticism about any in formations accuracy.
btw--one area did report 133% of voters attendance !!
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Russia says starts planned large-scale war games involving Crimea - The Russian Defence Ministry said on Monday a long-planned major military exercise involving annexed Crimea and Russia's Black Sea and Caspian fleets had got underway, and that 12,500 troops would take part.The exercise -- called Caucasus 2016 -- follows a period of heightened tension between Russia and Ukraine after Moscow accused Kiev of sending saboteurs into the peninsula to carry out a series of bombings. Kiev has flatly denied that. Russia conducted a series of nationwide spot combat readiness checks in the run-up to the exercise and practiced swiftly moving military hardware and troops to Crimea as part of a logistics exercise last month.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-wargames-idUSKCN11B10D
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MOVED TO MENDY'S NEW THREAD
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The reality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the comments of those on the Crimea who have to live with it.
The history of the Crimean vatushki, who was waiting for the Russian world
Meet - this Lidia Ivanovna, my neighbor in Simferopol apartment. In 2014, when Russia captured the Crimea, Lidia Ivanovna was very happy and waiting for the Russian pension, although have not been stricken, because they had a cottage near Gurzuf, which is rented to tourists and is not bad at this earned. In addition she received a pension Ukrainian and quite high (about 2000 hryvnia), which made it possible not only to live in grand style, but also help children at Ukrainian prices. My warnings that anything good will not bring us Russian Lidia Ivanovna did not want to listen, what is more, it turned out that I was now suddenly become a Nazi, which prevents her children to live a normal life
She says, I hear that with tears, and I was like honey to the soul, because it is due to such a *, Lydia Ivanovna me and thousands of others had to leave their home. It is because of these shovels grandmothers broken heap of lives and I have absolutely * at how hard it is now, let him now devouring his Russian world and choke.
http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/chytajte-ne-pozhaleete-ystoryya-krymskoj-vatushky-kotoraya-zhdala-russkyj-myr/
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Highly likely that the the return of Crimea to Ukraine that Putin will not survive as czar.
Crimea Tatar leader Dzhemilev predicts Russia's withdrawal from Crimea
The Ukrainian president's envoy to the Crimean Tatar people and Crimean Tatar leader, Ukrainian MP Mustafa Dzhemilev says that Russia is paying a high price for maintaining occupied Crimea, and it is likely that the Kremlin may withdraw from the peninsula after some time.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1762077-crimea-tatar-leader-dzhemilev-predicts-russias-withdrawal-from-crimea.html
"Of course, it costs a lot to Russia, but I think that [Russian President Vladimir] Putin, having embarked on this adventure, counted on the fact that he would be able to establish the regime in Kyiv, similar to that of [he had with former Ukrainian president Viktor] Yanukovych who would have given consent to the occupation, but this did not happen," the politician said.
Dzhemilev stressed that Putin used Crimea's annexation to propagate and encourage pseudo-patriotism. "Putin's withdrawal from Crimea will be similar to his political hara-kiri," the Crimean Tatar politician said.
At the same time, he noted that the sanctions had produced a powerful blow to the Russian economy: "If this continues, and we hope that they will be strengthened, but even if they remain at the current level, the collapse of Russia is not far away."
http://www.unian.info/politics/1762077-crimea-tatar-leader-dzhemilev-predicts-russias-withdrawal-from-crimea.html
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Highly likely that the the return of Crimea to Ukraine that Putin will not survive as czar.
Seriously, JayH - much as I abhor how the Kremlin used it's own troops to bring about a 'coup' in Crimea - whilst suggesting Yanu' should still be President of Crimea - you are dreaming..
WHO / WHAT will persuade VVP to 'hand Crimea back' ? A Chinese invasion ( or threat of ) from the east ?!
Not highly likely that Crimea will return to Ukraine - even if Putin and his bridges don't last..
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Not highly likely that Crimea will return to Ukraine
Agree....& I believe it's the Ukrainian governments own fault.
12 responses ...
http://www.quora.com/Do-you-think-Crimea-will-ever-be-returned-to-Ukraine
Now...
Anything is possible, but it is similar to asking if Mexico will regain control of Texas.
Disagree..... Many parts of Texas are already controlled by Mexicans.
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I believe it's the Ukrainian governments own fault.
Beam me up Scottie...
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Agree....& I believe it's the Ukrainian governments own fault.
How so?
According to local news, crime has exploded in Crimea.
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It is very hard to plan for so many unknown quantities in the future--especially when Russia is and will be attempting to cloud every issue.
Three years have passed since the annexation of the Crimea. It is sufficient time period to reflect on what has happened and to develop a policy for the future. But, alas, the country has problems with both these issues
How Russia fills the Crimea with the “anti-ukrainian constituents”
http://uifuture.org/en/post/russias-policy-in-crimea-demography-migration-and-immigration-research-expert_149
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A summary of events. It is worth revisiting what did take place -- to this day we still see people that take pieces of discredited Kremlin propaganda and trot it out as a historic fact !
Quoting-
"Feb. 22, 2014
Yanukovych was extracted from Ukraine by Russian Special Forces. Vladimir Putin has admitted that he oversaw this operation and when it was over, in the early hours of the morning, he personally ordered the takeover of Crimea.
Feb. 26, 2017
The Russian military fanned out from their bases on Crimea and moved into positions to allow them to swiftly move to grab key infrastructure on the peninsula once the operation started in earnest."
Crimea, an explainer
Feb. 20, 2014
After the military operation to take over the peninsula, medals were issued to the Russian soldiers who had participated in these events, and Feb. 20, 2014 is the date stated on that medal as the beginning of the Crimea operation. For those not paying attention, these are the soldiers that Russia denied were Russian soldiers, but to reporters on the ground in Crimea (like Simon Ostrovsky, then with Vice News) it was quite obvious that the men without insignia were Russian soldiers.
On the same day, protesters were being brutally slaughtered by sniper fire on the streets of Kyiv.
http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/paul-niland-crimea-explainer.html?utm_content=bufferdc72d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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Crimea bridge
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bb7_1491076261
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Despite the Kremlin publishing positive numbers for the economy the real facts are that it is close to being on it's knees . If Trump plays the correct cards now he can create a situation where he can dictate the future -- potentially even inside Russia.
The massive support of Russians for the annexation has much more serious and immediate consequences than a display of deeply rooted chauvinism. Having signed off on “Crimea is ours,” Russians have deemed their own power above the law and sanctioned its use in violating all laws and treaties for the sake of higher interests or “justice.” The Russian authorities had behaved this same way previously, but now they have obtained the relevant mandate from society. Quite naturally, the crackdown following the seizure of Crimea has been chockablock with spectacular acts of lawlessness.
Russia’s suicide by Crimea
With Crimea in tow, Russia has no positive alternative to the current regime. And as long as the Russian opposition is concerned only about regime change and avoids discussing Crimea, the only thing it can offer is a Putinist Russia sans Putin. Whoever ends up in his place, however, the changes won’t be too noticeable.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/20/three-years-later-russias-suicide-by-crimea/
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Despite the Kremlin publishing positive numbers for the economy the real facts are that it is close to being on it's knees . If Trump plays the correct cards now he can create a situation where he can dictate the future -- potentially even inside Russia.
The massive support of Russians for the annexation has much more serious and immediate consequences than a display of deeply rooted chauvinism. Having signed off on “Crimea is ours,” Russians have deemed their own power above the law and sanctioned its use in violating all laws and treaties for the sake of higher interests or “justice.” The Russian authorities had behaved this same way previously, but now they have obtained the relevant mandate from society. Quite naturally, the crackdown following the seizure of Crimea has been chockablock with spectacular acts of lawlessness.
Russia’s suicide by Crimea
With Crimea in tow, Russia has no positive alternative to the current regime. And as long as the Russian opposition is concerned only about regime change and avoids discussing Crimea, the only thing it can offer is a Putinist Russia sans Putin. Whoever ends up in his place, however, the changes won’t be too noticeable.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/20/three-years-later-russias-suicide-by-crimea/
on and on and on and on and on again from you Jay. Same old nonsensical garbage. You are beyond redemption.
Did you hear that Crimea is staying in Russia? Did you hear that as long as Ukraine wants war with Russia it will never develop properly? Keep fighting Russia, you Ukrainian Patriot!!!!
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Did you hear that Crimea is staying in Russia? Did you hear that as long as Ukraine wants war with Russia it will never develop properly? Keep fighting Russia, you Ukrainian Patriot!!!!
smh.....
did you become citizen of Russia yet? ;D
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Did you hear that as long as Ukraine wants war with Russia it will never develop properly? Keep fighting Russia, you Ukrainian Patriot!!!!
Whilst JayH's copy and pastes do not help his cause, this comment had me stopped in my tracks ..
WHICH nation has militarily created the circumstances for a 'referendum' on the territory of another ? ...
Thank you - sanity returns ..
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on and on and on and on and on again from you Jay. Same old nonsensical garbage. You are beyond redemption.
Did you hear that Crimea is staying in Russia? Did you hear that as long as Ukraine wants war with Russia it will never develop properly? Keep fighting Russia, you Ukrainian Patriot!!!!
Sandro -
Look at this post above. Do you see the edit notes? I don't believe Brass is posting any more here on the forum. If he is, I would be very happy. But I believe he is not. How is it that Brass's tag (and the ability to modify another's post) occurs here?
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Sandro -
Look at this post above. Do you see the edit notes? I don't believe Brass is posting any more here on the forum. If he is, I would be very happy. But I believe he is not. How is it that Brass's tag (and the ability to modify another's post) occurs here?
It was I, Jone.
I'm still a member, I still have responsibilities (to the forum) and until someone better comes along or I'm fired I'll continue to fulfill those obligations.
Now, if memory serves my appointment was let out of the bag quite some time ago...
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21545.msg454532#msg454532
...As to my lack of posts - I'm on hiatus. ;)
Brass
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Well, that makes me happy. Although it is tradition, on this forum, that activities by the moderator are disguised. That, I, suppose, is what threw me.
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Welcome Brass. Glad to see your edits with your name rather than anonymous.
Cheers!
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Typically ludicrous Russian comments. Nothing is ever Russia's fault. Not the Kremlins,not Putins etc-- similar to the Trump chaos in America--it is always someone else to blame.
Funny how turning Crimea into a Russian military base is killing the tourist season !
"It is now more than halfway through July, however, and the Russian Security Services (FSB) claim Ukrainian chicanery might be to blame for the lackluster tourism figures this year. Russian tourism operators said earlier this month that just over a million Russians had visitted Crimea in the first half of 2017—around a fifth of government annual projections—while demand is down versus last year by 30 percent. "
RUSSIAN SECURITY FORCES SAY UKRAINE'S SPIES ARE RUINING SUMMER IN CRIMEA
Russia’s security services are accusing Ukrainian spies of trying to recruit Crimeans en masse for a nefarious purpose: ruining the tourist season on the annexed peninsula.
http://www.newsweek.com/russian-security-forces-say-ukraines-spies-are-ruining-summer-crimea-642386
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Typically ludicrous Russian comments. Nothing is ever Russia's fault. Not the Kremlins,not Putins etc-- similar to the Trump chaos in America--it is always someone else to blame.
Funny how turning Crimea into a Russian military base is killing the tourist season !
"It is now more than halfway through July, however, and the Russian Security Services (FSB) claim Ukrainian chicanery might be to blame for the lackluster tourism figures this year. Russian tourism operators said earlier this month that just over a million Russians had visitted Crimea in the first half of 2017—around a fifth of government annual projections—while demand is down versus last year by 30 percent. "
RUSSIAN SECURITY FORCES SAY UKRAINE'S SPIES ARE RUINING SUMMER IN CRIMEA
Russia’s security services are accusing Ukrainian spies of trying to recruit Crimeans en masse for a nefarious purpose: ruining the tourist season on the annexed peninsula.
http://www.newsweek.com/russian-security-forces-say-ukraines-spies-are-ruining-summer-crimea-642386
If the truth be told, those that do know what they are talking about know that Turkey is open for biz to Russians on package hols ..... Crimea v Turkey's s.coast ? Service without a smile v with ? ..
There you go ....
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This video is part of an English cretin named Graham Phillips work -- a paid propagandist of the Kremlin.
For those who may be interested -- also a "mate" of the cretin fellow Englishman and prolific poster over on the RT sponsored rua ( and very occassional poster here)
I dont think he got the answers he wanted !
Perhaps Moby can translate for us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBE_xjP2s_Y
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This video is part of an English cretin named Graham Phillips work -- a paid propagandist of the Kremlin.
For those who may be interested -- also a "mate" of the cretin fellow Englishman and prolific poster over on the RT sponsored rua ( and very occassional poster here)
I dont think he got the answers he wanted !
Perhaps Moby can translate for us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBE_xjP2s_Y
For those that can't wait while Moby figures this out !!
Phillips, known for his anti Ukrainian and propaganda stories about LDPR, did a video interview in Alushta from a woman who introduced herself as Svetlana from Kiev.Phillips swam to the woman and began to ask questions about the Crimean affiliation. She answered him politely that Crimea is Ukraine and Russia took it away in violation of the International Agreements.
Phillips began to talk about the fact that people voted for it, and she answered him that they did not really vote - without international observers and at gunpoint "...
The only question I have is--what the hell was she doing there in the first place!!
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For those that can't wait while Moby figures this out !!
JayH
Some of us had important events in their lives that took precedent... like Formula1, friends, family ... Was your weekend SO boring ?
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JayH
Some of us had important events in their lives that took precedent... like Formula1, friends, family ... Was your weekend SO boring ?
Cretin,Englishmen --hard not to think of Moby !
Weekend?
Since Friday -- Moby posts on forum = 31
JayH = 3 !!
:ROFL: :
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Ukrainians are still vacationing in Crimea. I know this as a fact.
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Cretin,Englishmen --hard not to think of Moby !
1/ Referring to me as 'English' would be as accurate as referring to you as a New Zealander ...
Weekend?
Since Friday -- Moby posts on forum = 31
JayH = 3 !!
:ROFL: :
2/ Indeed - I tend to post early in the morning and when 'others' are awake HAVE a life..
3/ A true Cretin is iodine deficient and has resulting thyroid gland issues... I think your version was meant as an 'insult'...? ;)
4/ this is all the more surprising as whilst I don't condone how the Kremlin gained control of Crimea - I fail to see how your post suggests it's imminent return .. this IS the thread we're in, right ? ...
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1/ Referring to me as 'English' would be as accurate as referring to you as a New Zealander ...
My apologies to decent Englishmen everywhere for including Moby ! :)
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Ukrainians are still vacationing in Crimea. I know this as a fact.
No doubt about it !
What is also certain-- it is only a small % compared to pre Russian invasion .
I can also report that much of the Ukrainian coast has been packed !
I have just returned from Sea of Azov and near enough every hotel was booked out over the summer. Some demanding premium price and longer stays before accepting a booking .
In chatting withe quite a few people I heard many times what equalled - " i used to go to Krym but will not be going there in the forseeable future" which generally evoked nodding heads from any and everyone who heard comment!
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My apologies to decent Englishmen everywhere for including Moby ! :)
A 'good' start.... now perhaps you'll explain how your video has relevance to the 'return' of Crimea? I'm guessing this is what has caused your latest 'hissy fit' ? ..
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41071800 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41071800)
Russia's controversial Crimea bridge gets giant arch
(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/2C99/production/_97571411_daefebf0-e113-4f96-bd62-4e21f0f6cb2c.jpg)
As I KEEP explaining - the 'return' is not going to happen....
( and it is bridges - plural )
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A 'good' start....
Come on, his best line was calling you a pommie git a few moons ago.
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1/ Referring to me as 'English' would be as accurate as referring to you as a New Zealander ...
Well, it is our West Island, after all! :devil:
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Well, it is our West Island, after all! :devil:
Does that make the US your East Island?
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Does that make the US your East Island?
Did you ever see a wonderful movie called "The Mouse That Roared?" We're not that desperate, and, if you keep the Golfer-in-Chief, we never will be.
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Come on, his best line was calling you a pommie git a few moons ago.
Wasn't that Wallm(art)? .. ( Minus the 'git' ? ) :)
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For some here that think the Russian invasion of Ukraine is no big deal -- you need to read.
For those that do care about Ukraine -this is another sickening report of the reality.
"The report stresses that the violations since annexation have been committed by Russian state agents, and specifically mentions “arbitrary arrests and detentions, enforced disappearances, ill-treatment and torture, and at least one extra-judicial execution”.
UN report on grave rights violations demolishes all Russia’s lies about occupied Crimea
The damning UN Human Rights Office report on “multiple and grave violations” in Russian-occupied Crimea published on September 25 is not just important in documenting a sharp deterioration in human rights since Russia’s invasion and annexation. It also spells out on virtually every page that Russia is an occupying state, and that its application of Russian legislation is in serious breach of international law, particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1506389950
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UN report on grave rights violations demolishes all Russia’s lies about occupied Crimea
Here is the link to the actual report:
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Crimea2014_2017_EN.pdf (http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Crimea2014_2017_EN.pdf)
Did you READ, it JayH ?
It is not all 'good' for Kyiv and 'bad' for Moscow ..
19/
"The right of the Crimean population to an adequate standard of living has been
affected by measures taken by Ukrainian authorities or implemented on mainland Ukraine,
including the interruption of water and energy supplies to the peninsula. Under international
humanitarian law, the Russian Federation as the occupying power is obliged to ensure to
the fullest extent of the means available to it sufficient hygiene and public health standards,
as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population. At the same time, this
does not exonerate Ukraine from its obligations under the International Covenant on
Economic, Social and Cultural Rights not to interfere with the enjoyment of the rights it
enshrines, and from respecting the requirement under international humanitarian law to
ensure that the basic needs of the population continue to be met under conditions of
occupation."
Bear in mind that the 'authorities' on Crimea ( now Moscow) forbade the UN investigators the freedom to investigate if the statements of those in the reports.
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The water should have been cut. Why should Ukraine be providing Crimea with a precious commodity to subsidize its agriculture?
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Russia owes lots already for the power and water used before it was shut off. Any utility company world wide would termonate servces if the accounts are in arears.
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@Boethius and AKMike
I think Kyiv called this one wrong ..the ( 'Hellenic') Greeks supplied power to the 'north' ( eth. Turkish ) part of Cyprus - for years - unpaid - it is an unrecognised state - only Turkey recognises the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus'
One day some gas containers that had been washed up - and stored too near a power stn blew up ... By now the 'north ' had it's own power stn and agreed to supply the 'south' while they rebuilt their plant..
One never knows what will come about ....
The 'rump' Republic of Cyprus - woke up to keeping the dream alive of a settlement and largely - not entirely - has not allowed development in what was - before the Turkish 'invasion / peace operation' of 1974 areas
That said - the UN brokered a Peace deal / settlement in 2003 - the Annan Plan and the 'Hellenic' Greeks rejected it ( eth Turks accepted) ... ?((
In the early days, the 'south' cut power and the 'north' controlled the sewage plant for the divided capital - Nicosia..so eventually they had to work things through
The report makes it clear that Kyiv has an obligation to the people on the peninsula.. A LOT of UN and European Court of Human Rights 'case law' is based on Cyprus' issues .
By cutting off the water and electricity - Kyiv was 'sort of' saying "We are teaching you a lesson", but at the same time making those who didn't wish to be Russian - suffer, too.
It's a 'moral toughie'..
Please do read the conclusions of the report ..
1/ RF - points a-t (20 points)
2/ UA points a-f ( 6 points)
3 / International Community ( 3 points)
"a) Insist on full cooperation of the Russian Federation with international and
regional monitoring mechanisms, including by granting unrestricted access to
their representatives to Crimea;
b) Remind the Russian Federation and Ukraine to strictly abide by international
human rights law and international humanitarian law in ensuring the protection
of the population of Crimea;
c) Raise cases of human rights violations and abuses in discussions with the Russian
Federation authorities at bilateral and multilateral forums."
Those that think Crimea is coming back, soon should note the 'Cyprus Problem' ..
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This article deals with a topic I have commented on in the past .I also believe it will be the catalyst for major change inside Russia -- and further.
Sobchak says civil war to start in Russia if Crimea returned to Ukraine
It's a very difficult question. Under international law, Crimea is Ukrainian. There are people living there, and we must recognize the fact that those living there are cautious about Ukraine. Ukraine itself should recognize this. And we must decide together what we are to do with those 2 million people," Sobchak said.
http://www.unian.info/politics/2309531-sobchak-says-civil-war-to-start-in-russia-if-crimea-returned-to-ukraine.html
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Ukraine shouldn't take back Crimea, even if offered.
But they should receive very substantial compensation.
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1. HA
2. HA
3. HA
(http://s.rimg.info/0e97b5a7ae9e7fa04577469b4baf1c83.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-45103143.html)(http://s.rimg.info/0e97b5a7ae9e7fa04577469b4baf1c83.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-45103143.html)(http://s.rimg.info/0e97b5a7ae9e7fa04577469b4baf1c83.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-45103143.html)(http://s.rimg.info/0e97b5a7ae9e7fa04577469b4baf1c83.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-45103143.html)(http://s.rimg.info/0e97b5a7ae9e7fa04577469b4baf1c83.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-45103143.html)
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Joint Forces Operation is off to a good start, and it is using the right language to talk about restoring Russian-occupied territory to Ukraine’s control. Ukraine has the right to assert its sovereignty and to restore its territorial integrity, and with the Joint Forces Operation that started on May 1 it is finding a better path to the liberation of Crimea and Donbas.
RETURNING TERRITORIES OCCUPIED BY RUSSIA TO UKRAINE'S CONTROL
Note that the JFO carefully and correctly names the enemy as both “occupiers” and as “Russian-terrorist troops” – meaning that the enemy is composed of both regular and irregular soldiers of the Russian armed forces. There are no “pro-Russian separatists” and there never have been in eastern Ukraine, except as actors for Russian propaganda television. General Nayev put it plainly: the enemy are soldiers of the Russia Federation.
It is worth quoting his explanation in full: “In fact, the 1st and 2nd Army Corps, created in the so-called ‘DPR’ and ‘LPR,’ are, so to speak, classical Russian units formed by statutes of the Russian Armed Forces. They are subordinate and under the control of the command of the Southern Military District of the Russian Federation. Both corps are part of the 8th Russian Army, from which they receive weapons, ammunition, fuel and lubricants, money, and food. All positions – from the company commander and above – in these formations are staffed with Russian officers ... So, we are dealing with Russian aggression. This is clearly defined in the Law of Ukraine ‘On the peculiarities of the state policy of ensuring the state sovereignty of Ukraine in temporarily occupied territories in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.’"
http://radiolemberg.com/ua-articles/ua-allarticles/joint-forces-operation-returning-territories-occupied-by-russia-to-ukraine-s-control
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corruption has been institutionalized and built-into Russian culture, from the very day Peter the Great decided not to pay his civil servants, but to instead let each of them figure out a way to pay themselves using their position
this system ONLY works when you have a Peter or Ivan Grozy or... Stalin at the helm
otherwise it becomes free-for-all to see who can grab the most
when Ukrainian oligarchs grab a company, they drain its resources while not paying their employees until the company flounders
when Ukrainian oligarchs grab a country, they do the same...
the only way out for Ukraine is war!
executed under a complete military dictatorship...
that hangs every single oligarch on both sides of the street - near the “Tiplitsa” in Kyiv
and nationalizes their property in the name of the people of Ukraine
and FIGHTS RUSSIA and WINS...
but this will not happen of course...
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There is zero chance Russia will return Crimea to Ukraine. Zero chance. No amount of sanctions or indignation from other countries will force Russia to return Crimea. The only way Ukraine will get Crimea back is if Russia were to break up into other countries or perhaps China claimed part of the Russian Far East and China and Russia went to war.
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actually, Ukraine never really "had" Crimea in the first place
pre-invasion Victory Day Parade in Sevastopol, Russian/Soviet flags outnumbered Ukrainian flags 20-1
so whose country was it really...
when a foreign invader occupies a big piece of your territory and none of your soldiers/sailors/marines fire a single shot in defense...
whose country is it really...
actual ethnic Ukrainians were ethnically cleansed off Crimea ages ago by Stalin along with Greeks, Jews, Tatars
99% of population of Sevastopol killed in "Great Patriotic War"
Stalin repopulated Crimea with ethnic Russians from Urals in !940s/1950s
everyone there IS Russian
let them have it....
Russians will take the Pearl and turn it into a bullet
so no one but them will want it anyway
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There is zero chance Russia will return Crimea to Ukraine. Zero chance.
When someone says there is zero chance I really enjoy it. Zero chance. No chance whatsoever. Yes, you are so right Mr. God.
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At last, the long awaited bridge opening ceremony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqPoo8jmgMs
http://www.kuresh.info/ne-vyiderzhala-nagruzki-i-tresnula-opora-kerchenskogo-mosta.htm
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The article speaks for itself.
School kids intimidated in Russian-occupied Crimea as Crimeans refuse to reject Ukrainian citizenship
Teachers in Russian-occupied Crimea are demanding information from parents as to whether their children have Russian citizenship and what residence status they and their parent(s) have. The document came to light in connection with angry reactions from pro-Russian officials to the large number of Crimeans obtaining Ukrainian biometric passports. Russia’s first attempts to effectively eliminate Ukrainian citizenship hit hurdles from the outset, and four years after its invasion and annexation, there is nothing to suggest that most Crimeans want to renounce their Ukrainian citizenship.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1525098624
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When someone says there is zero chance I really enjoy it. Zero chance. No chance whatsoever. Yes, you are so right Mr. God.
Stirlitz when do you think Ukraine might reclaim Crimea? As krimster2 says the overwhelming vast majority of the residents of Crimea are Russians so there's not going to be a popular uprising on Crimea to reclaim it for Ukraine.
Once the bridge linking Crimea to mainland Russia is complete Crimea will be even more wedded to Russia. Stirlitz, you're a local, I always assume locals know more than foreigners, when and how will Ukraine reclaim Crimea?
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Stirlitz joined the military after Russia invaded. He's as patriotic as they come.
Realistically it would be hard for Ukraine to get Crimea back. Russia is active in other parts of the world. The world's attention is somewhere else right now, not on returning Crimea.
Ukraine has a headache(Crimea) and Russia has taken a hammer to Ukraine's fingers(Eastern Ukraine) so Ukraine can forget about the headache and address the finger pain instead. Putin is playing the long game and will keep Ukraine destabilized until they elect a president he can buy. That president will do what pro Western presidents can't and that is to bring peace to Eastern Ukraine which will stabilize the economy.
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Ukraine has a headache(Crimea) and Russia has taken a hammer to Ukraine's fingers(Eastern Ukraine) so Ukraine can forget about the headache and address the finger pain instead. Putin is playing the long game and will keep Ukraine destabilized until they elect a president he can buy. That president will do what pro Western presidents can't and that is to bring peace to Eastern Ukraine which will stabilize the economy.
Very astute post there Billy. I do indeed think that is his game plan.
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At last, the long awaited bridge opening ceremony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqPoo8jmgMs
http://www.kuresh.info/ne-vyiderzhala-nagruzki-i-tresnula-opora-kerchenskogo-mosta.htm
Can I crib this and see if it's allowed somewhere else ? ;)
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Stirlitz when do you think Ukraine might reclaim Crimea? As krimster2 says the overwhelming vast majority of the residents of Crimea are Russians so there's not going to be a popular uprising on Crimea to reclaim it for Ukraine.
Once the bridge linking Crimea to mainland Russia is complete Crimea will be even more wedded to Russia. Stirlitz, you're a local, I always assume locals know more than foreigners, when and how will Ukraine reclaim Crimea?
I think he is just saying you can never say "never". Just FYI, Stirlitz is from Crimea, though he's lived in Odesa for many, many years.
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"Very astute post there Billy. I do indeed think that is his game plan."
then explain the complete reorganization of Russian military post-crimea
which has been reorganized from top to bottom as a blitzkrieg attack force striking out from
the southern military district in Rostov
instead of a counter-NATO force...
guess what"
thanks to "where's my iphone" app, I know the position of several Russian brigades in the southern military district
the gift that keeps on giving...
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BO', did you know the "little green men" who first appeared in Crimea were "Wagner"
the same Russian "private security" firm that received the casualties in Syria!
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I think he is just saying you can never say "never". Just FYI, Stirlitz is from Crimea, though he's lived in Odesa for many, many years.
Boethius if you take "never" to mean literally forever I'd agree. There's always a chance that several hundred years in the future Russia could be a fragmented country that is only a shadow of its former self.
China might have claimed much of the Russian Far East because of the area's many natural resources. Several populist nationalist movements could have claimed much of central and southern Russia.
This would leave a much smaller Russia. Perhaps Russia would be dramatically weakened from decades of fighting domistic and foreign forces. Perhaps also Ukraine would be reinvigorated having shaken off centuries of corruption and ennui and would then have the necessary military and economic might to eject Russian forces from Crimea. Or perhaps Russian forces would have abandoned Crimea to fight off China and the nationalist movements.
However, even after all that the vast majority of Crimea's citizens would still be Russian. Unless the Ukrainian military is rescuing Crimea from some type of post apocalyptic nightmare world the Ukrainian government and military would still be unwanted.
Let's just say the chances of Crimea being returned to Ukraine within the next few decades might not be zero but the chances are likely to be the number that is next to zero.
I'm not insensitive to Stirlitz's feelings just a realist. After all many people say the USA won't be around in 100 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FROpXT76HXk
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Dave,
The idea of the repatriation of Krim to Ukraine is an unusual one. It is true that the majority of the population of Krim was made up of pensioners originally from Russia. It is also true that Krim had independent status within the loose political structure of Ukraine.
But those of us who can remember back to 1991 will tell you that predicting the breakup of the Soviet Union was something that few, if any, saw coming.
Russia is today playing the super power without a supporting cast. Client states of the Eastern Bloc of nations today resent the idea that the Soviet Union ruled their governments and subsidized the standard of living in Russia to the detriment of those same states. In addition, former Republics of the Soviet Union look to the West for primacy in trade and future commerce. I'm thinking not only of Ukraine, but of the Baltics.
While Russia has tremendous natural resources, the continued emphasis on defense spending - to act the super power - costs much in resources and hard currency that could be spent on infrastructure development. Absent the feeder governments of the Eastern Bloc and former Soviet Republics, it is hard to imagine that Russia can maintain its current governmental structure into the future. Does that mean another rejection of the current regime? Maybe not. But to say that Russia will not reshape itself within our lifetimes is somewhat of a stretch.
The bigger question is what is to become of Ukraine. Russia, without Ukraine as a client state, does not have the basis for the economic group that was a primary focus of Putin when he was re-elected 6 years ago. But Ukraine, if properly courted by the West, has the ability to adopt Western standards and successfully transition to a Western type society as has Poland, the Baltics, the Czech Republic, etc.
Because Russian sees itself as a belligerent, against Western interests, I believe that Ukraine will receive special attention from the West in that it is occupying the furthermost eastern border areas confronting Russia.
All of these factors will come into play when factoring in the future of Krim.
Funny thing: I had breakfast with a gal from Moskva this weekend. She pulled out the new 2000 note Ruble pictures. She showed me the back of the bill which is an engraving of a bridge. She immediately told me that it was the bridge being built between Krim and the Russian mainland. Then she went on to say how important Krim is to the Russian psyche. I had to laugh to myself. Because when I looked at the engraving, it is not the Kerch Strait Bridge, but instead is the Russky Bridge in Vladivostok. I would have thought that a good Muscovite would have known the difference.
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Because Russian sees itself as a belligerent, against Western interests, I believe that Ukraine will receive special attention from the West in that it is occupying the furthermost eastern border areas confronting Russia.
One man finally said the truth. Ukraine is viewed in West as a hammer against Russia, and Ukrainian political elite is trying to exploit this status. Though many young Ukrainians prefer to escape the life in the hammer according to polls. If depopulation of Ukraine will continue with the current rate, who will fight to return Crimea back to Ukraine (after Russia evaporated somehow)?
Funny thing: I had breakfast with a gal from Moskva this weekend. She pulled out the new 2000 note Ruble pictures. She showed me the back of the bill which is an engraving of a bridge. She immediately told me that it was the bridge being built between Krim and the Russian mainland. Then she went on to say how important Krim is to the Russian psyche. I had to laugh to myself. Because when I looked at the engraving, it is not the Kerch Strait Bridge, but instead is the Russky Bridge in Vladivostok. I would have thought that a good Muscovite would have known the difference.
Good story, thanks. Even Moscow blondes want to keep Crimea in Russia, that is a strong indicator of the mood :) Tomorrow first cars will pass over the bridge, and the rail will link Crimea with Russia in the next year.
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How did you know she was blonde?
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How did you know she was blonde?
Duh !! :popcorn:
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Putin is driving KAMAZ truck on the Crimean bridge!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdbg4OIGQ5Y
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did he take his shirt off
is he making Russia GREATTTTTT!!!
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Really nice of the Russians to link Russia and Ukraine AND to pay for it all ;)
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then explain the complete reorganization of Russian military post-crimea
which has been reorganized from top to bottom as a blitzkrieg attack force striking out from
the southern military district in Rostov
instead of a counter-NATO force...
guess what"
thanks to "where's my iphone" app, I know the position of several Russian brigades in the southern military district
the gift that keeps on giving...
When I was stationed in Ft. Bragg, there was a paratrooper unit always ready to be dropped anywhere in the world in 24 hours. It was never used when I was in the military. Russia may have a unit ready for blitzkrieg on Ukraine but it may never be used. These military unit are an option a president can use. Russia's high speed military units job now is to intimidate and discourage Ukraine from retaking control of East Ukraine just by being stationed near the border.
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really?
ever suddenly see the US military reorganize itself to invade Mexico?
this is what Russia had been doing since 2015
totally new org chart
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How did you know she was blonde?
Breakfast on weekend is especially delicious with a blonde. Though I don't insist on :)
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(http://b.radikal.ru/b36/1805/41/d2c402e98d54.jpg) (http://radikal.ru)
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google Putin's watch collection
it's worth more than the net worth of 1,000 average Russian families
how does he acquire 10 million USD of swiss watches on such a small salary
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I think he invested in Whitewater (on a tip).
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that would pay for 2-3 rolexes only he has hundreds
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really?
ever suddenly see the US military reorganize itself to invade Mexico?
this is what Russia had been doing since 2015
totally new org chart
Putin has been reorganizing his military to be stronger even before Ukraine. He's fond of the USSR glory days and would like to bring back those memories.
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youre right thanks for telling me
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Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said the new bridge “will definitely be handy for the occupants when they have to urgently leave our Crimea.”
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boy that's telling them!
did Poroshenko happen to mention a date by any chance
glad it's all been settled
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Russia will not ask for anyone's permission to build infrastructure on its territory. This was the response to the US, which condemned the opening of the Kerch Strait bridge between Russia and Crimea.
The US State Department accused Russia of flouting international law by building a bridge to "occupied" Crimea without the permission of the government of Ukraine.
“As one could predict, Washington is not happy with that. But Crimea is Russia,” the Embassy of Russia in the USA said in the statement on Tuesday. “We shall not ask for anybody’s permission to build transport infrastructure for the sake of the population of Russian regions.”
http://www.rt.com/business/426875-russia-needs-no-us-permission/
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and Russia will ask no one's permission when it invades its neighbors
because Russia is "stalnoy"
is that all you Russians care about?
looking strong
did you ever take a good look around in your Russia?
did you like everything you saw?
but hey, Russia is strong......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
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google Putin's watch collection
it's worth more than the net worth of 1,000 average Russian families
how does he acquire 10 million USD of swiss watches on such a small salary
Well, everyone needs a hobby. Besides invading other countries and killing your political opponents/dissidents.
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Doll is one of those people that cannot understand the difference between de facto and de jure....
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Not sure how true this one is as another source mentioned they escaped at one point. So might be a tall tale or poor living conditions...
"The trained animals refused to not only interact with the new Russian coaches, but refused food and after what time perished "
http://www.obozrevatel.com/crime/ukrainskie-boevyie-delfinyi-pogibli-v-kryimu-postpred-poroshenko.htm
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In the current climate of confused uncertainty -- a few interesting points came out of Trump-Putin meeting .
For some that still believe to nonsense spewed by the Kremlin -eventually the reality is admitted.
With Trump on his side, Putin admits Russia staged the ‘referendum’ to annex Crimea
It is devastating that the only positive thing to be said about the Helsinki Summit on 16 July is that US President Donald Trump did not, as feared, ‘recognize Crimea as Russian’. At least, not publicly. Trump was unable or unwilling to mention even one of the grave crimes which the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin has committed over recent years. In fact, according to Trump, the low in US-Russian relations was not because of its interference in the US presidential elections, confirmed by all US intelligence services, Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea and military aggression against Ukraine, the downing by a Russian Buk missile of Malaysian airliner MH17, the use of radioactive polonium and nerve gas against perceived enemies on British territory, war crimes in Syria and much more. No, it was because, the man tweeted, of “many years of US foolishness and stupidity and now, the Rigged Witch Hunt!,"
It is for US citizens to consider whether their President should reject US intelligence in favour of a former KGB agent’s assurances. They might also wonder how, on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the downing of MH17, Trump should have been waxing effusive about a new dawn in US-Russian relations and totally silent about the murder of 298 passengers. Since Trump has cast doubt on Russia’s proven involvement in that crime earlier, the silence was not unexpected. That doesn’t make it any the less disturbing.
Trump’s failure to mention Russia’s aggression against Ukraine as a cause of the worsening in Russia’s relations with the entire democratic world was also deeply worrying. Putin’s lip service to the fact that Trump had not overturned the USA’s correct condemnation of Russia’s annexation was scarcely enough when he went on, unchallenged, to try to justify its actions.
Putin claimed that “we consider that we held a referendum in strict compliance with international law, with the UN statute. For us, for the Russian Federation, this question is closed. That’s all”.
Putin was clearly feeling particularly emboldened by the gift that Trump bestowed upon him through this ‘summit’, and did not even bother to hide behind his customary subterfuge. Even after admitting that the soldiers without insignia who had seized control of Ukrainian territory were Russia, Putin has always tried to claim that the so-called ‘referendum’ was the initiative of ‘the Crimean people’. No longer, it would seem, thanks to US President Trump - it was us all along.
Whatever “UN statute" Putin had in mind, there is nothing at all in ‘international law’ to allow one country to “hold a referendum” on the sovereign territory of another country. Trump may not know that, or not care, but it is of relevance, since Russia is still pushing a narrative about a supposed ‘referendum’ that is as false as the cosmetic ‘elections’ which Joseph Stalin used to take over Eastern Europe after the Second World War.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1531780930
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US President Donald Trump did not, as feared, ‘recognize Crimea as Russian’. At least, not publicly. Trump was unable or unwilling to mention even one of the grave crimes which the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin has committed over recent years.
Putin was clearly feeling particularly emboldened by the gift that Trump bestowed upon him through this ‘summit’, and did not even bother to hide behind his customary subterfuge.
More liberal anti Trump articles that will rot the brain. I posted the transcript of the actual words said and questions asked in the Trump thread. No journalist translation of English to English in that transcript. Trump was never asked by a journalist about Crimea but Putin was. Putin said Trump's view of that never changed and that Trump believes it was illegal for Russia to take Crimea.
In the current climate of confused uncertainty -- a few interesting points came out of Trump-Putin meeting .
For some that still believe to nonsense spewed by the Kremlin -eventually the reality is admitted.
It is for US citizens to consider whether their President should reject US intelligence in favour of a former KGB agent’s assurances.
There's nothing to consider. Trump already said Obama did nothing to stop election meddling and the hacking of emails. Translation: That means Trump admits those events happened. As far as trusting our intelligence agents, Trump is going after EVERY Russian that Mueller has indicted. Hopefully Mueller will indict Putin and we'll see how brave Trump gets.
interference in the US presidential elections,
Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea and military aggression against Ukraine,
downing by a Russian Buk missile of Malaysian airliner MH17,
the use of radioactive polonium and nerve gas against perceived enemies on British territory,
war crimes in Syria and much more.
All these things happened on Obama's watch. Why didn't Obama and the world do something significant back then? What do you want from Trump? To start a war? That was Obama's and the Western World's responsibility back then. When the crime is happening, you stop it if you feel evil should be confronted. Years ago I recommended dropping troops in Crimea but I was radical compared to everybody else's suggestion. They got their way with sanctions and it didn't work. It's over. There wasn't a leader with enough balls to stop the Crimea takeover. Russia got away with things so we move forward. Personally, I think Trump will be duped like Obama was when dealing with Putin since he knows American presidents are on term limits and can't hold a grudge for very long after they've been deceived. We can only hope Trump isn't going to be duped as much as Obama.
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President Trump is tougher on Russia in 18 months than Obama in eight years
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/397212-president-trump-is-tougher-on-russia-in-18-months-than-obama-in-eight
http://youtu.be/keXx0zxTarE
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“Yes, perhaps in Ukraine it wasn’t much better in the economic and everyday sense, but there you at least had freedom. You could go out and say that it’s all bad”.
According to Polozov, prices in Crimea are on a par with Moscow, which means higher than in other parts of Russia and a third higher than in Kyiv.
Nothing so unfavourable will be heard, of course, on Crimean and Russian state media. Polozov calls the “recipe for Russian propaganda simple. Take Goebel’s technology, add Rockefeller’s (or in this case, Rotenberg’s) money, and you get Putin’s product.”
For Putin, he adds, the mass media is no less important than the fleet or army, and there are no independent media in Crimea at all. They’ve been destroyed.
Russia is also using Soviet methods to try to jam and obstruct Crimeans from hearing Ukrainian media
Russian lawyer reports mounting disillusionment with Russia in occupied Crimea
Polozov calls the situation in Crimea specific. “All the negative phenomena and processes that one sees in the Russian Federation are now being actively cultivated in Crimea. This is the inculcation of a police state and militarization”.
Even the people who did not support Ukraine, have descended into a state of apathy and disillusionment.
Polozov says that Crimean society can be divided into certain social groups. The first group is of people connected with the state, including the police, courts and military. They continue to support Russian occupation. Polozov notes also the significant moves Russia has made since annexation to change the demographic balance in Crimea. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people are being brought in from Russia, with a lot of these people – members of the FSB, National Guard, OMON riot police, etc. The major construction work carried out, such as the road between Kerch, Simferopol and Sevastopol is all done by people brought in from Russia. He says that on principle they don’t take Crimeans.
As reported earlier, many of the enforcement officers, prosecutors, etc., whether Crimeans who switched allegiance or people from Russia, receive housing and other incentives effectively in exchange for their loyalty.
Those Crimeans whose livelihood depended on tourism or agriculture are obviously disillusioned, Polozov says, adding that a lot of them now note that the difference between the present situation and that under Ukrainian government control lies in the freedom they had.
“Yes, perhaps in Ukraine it wasn’t much better in the economic and everyday sense, but there you at least had freedom. You could go out and say that it’s all bad”.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1534792109
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Ongoing Russian nonsense.
One of the most important decisions that Ukraine made back in 2014 was that improving Ukraine was a way to win hearts and minds--- and to a degree that has happened -- albeit not without a lot of pain for ordinary Ukrainians.
Russia’s FSB needs Ukrainian ‘saboteurs’ in occupied Crimea – fictitious ones will do
The FSB in Russian-occupied Crimea is looking for ‘saboteurs’, but not at all in the way that security services in other countries do. Moscow and its enforcement bodies are desperate for ‘Ukrainian enemies’ to justify the rising militarism and distract from the dramatic price increases and slump in tourism and agriculture since annexation. The FSB also need to arrest ‘saboteurs’, ‘terrorists’ and ‘extremists’ for their statistics, with this ensuring them bonuses and promotion.
All of the above means that when there aren’t real saboteurs or terrorists to be caught, you invent them. You use a fictitious ‘terrorist plot’ to arrest four opponents of Russia’s invasion and sentence one of them, Ukrainian filmmaker Oleg Sentsov to 20 years for quite literally nothing and civic activist Oleksandr Kolchenko to 10 years for a small part in the throwing of a Molotov cocktail at the deserted office of a pro-Russian organization.
The FSB were busy with other forms of political persecution during the next two years, and it was only in August and November 2016 that the next waves of arrests for supposed ‘sabotage plots’ began.
The lack of any acts of sabotage linked with all these subsequent arrests would not necessarily prove the absence of criminal plans. It would, however, warrant close attention to indications that the men’s ‘confessions’ had been made under duress and to grave violations of their right to a fair trial.
During August 2016, Russian state television showed FSB-made videos showing ‘confessions’ from four men: Yevhen Panov; Andriy Zakhtei; Ridvan Suleymanov and Volodymyr Prysich.
None of them mentioned each other, and simply repeated claims about sabotage plans on instructions from Ukraine’s military intelligence. Panov, the first to be seen, showed obvious signs of having been beaten.
The men were filmed in rooms with only an unnamed FSB officer outside the camera’s view There was nothing to indicate that they had seen a lawyer, nor that they had been allowed any contact with relatives, etc.
It took intervention from the European Court of Human Rights before Russia allowed Panov to see a lawyer. He immediately retracted all testimony as extracted by torture. The same allegations of torture have been made by Prysich and Zakhtei.
A further damning detail is that the subsequent convictions of both Suleymanov and Prysich bore little or absolutely no relation to their confessions.
It was also Panov, who held out against pressure to accept guilt for promises of a shorter sentence, who got the longest 8-year term of imprisonment (details here).
The FSB had learned two lessons from its resounding failure to convince an international audience that Ukraine had been planning ‘incursions’ on its own illegally occupied territory. It had been a mistake to arrest men who had never set eyes on each other, as alleged conspirators. It was also unwise to make the supposed ‘mastermind’ Panov, since his family was safely in mainland Ukraine, removing one of the levers the FSB use to force prisoners to ‘cooperate’.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1534701086
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I can report that what you are stating here is true
there IS growing disillusionment, but it IS unevenly felt
and the disillusion is offset by non-stop propaganda, “Putin is great, every single problem Russia has is caused by America, so Putin must continue to stand up against America”
and then 10 minutes later another version of this
even when I lived there 10 years ago, Russian TV was full of “National Symbols” designed to manipulate people’s emotions, it seems like the great patriotic war is the only experience Russia has ever had
the disillusion isn’t about politics but about economics, people in Crimea were promised
a better future, but for some it went the other way. maybe 40% of Crimea’s population works for the Russian government in some way, these people have seen some improvement compared to the Ukrainian period, but for most of the remainder living standards have diminished
some sections of the economy are completely dead like agriculture
I detected some kind of tension in senior Russian officers regarding Putin, but this subject was off limits. my feeling is they don’t like the orders they are being given
when I was bicycling in Crimea a few weeks ago, I experienced the eerie sensation that there was an approaching storm, but the sky was perfectly clear
something is coming, you can feel it in the air
and military equipment is unloaded in Sevastopol and trucked to Simferopol and then put on a train headed North, and again the next day, the tops of the shipping containers are camouflaged
but the sides not as much, you can see the artillery and Iskanders!!!!
locals are being conscripted, villages have no young men
everything is being prepared
Ukrainian saboteurs in Russia?
wait until you see what Russia is going to send Ukraine!!!!!
thousands... some shock battalions are being trained at Belbeck...they have awful Training manuals!!!
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Russian lawyer reports mounting disillusionment with Russia in occupied Crimea
This has no influence on the prospects of the Crimea returning to Ukraine. Likewise, their illusions about prosperity with the RF (Russian Fascists) did not matter when it came to Muscovy occupying the Crimea. The majority of the population of the Crimea are idiots who are easily influenced by propaganda and rumors and seldom use their own brains (I state this after living there for 10 years since 2004 until 2014), but what mattered then and what will matter in the future is the position of the Ukrainian government, its readiness to defend Ukraine and claim back occupied territories, the strength (and availability at all) of the Ukrainian army on the one hand, and similar factors on the other side. In other words, when Ukraine was left effectively without a government, without an army, Muscovy took the advantage of the sitatution, and the opinions of the Crimeans did not really matter. Likewise, when the RF finally collapses, no one is going to bother whether the Crimeans want to be part of Ukraine again or not. The Crimea will simply return to Ukraine.
In other words, if there is a barn full of sheep and someone fakes up papers and becomes an illegal owner while the real owner is sick or away, it does not really matter if he treats the sheep well or not while temporarily 'owning' the barn. When the law finally prevails, the barn shall be given to the true owner whatever the sheep 'think' or bleat and it shall happen, not because the sheep want or don’t want the barn to be retrieved but because of other reasons.
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The is little doubt that Russia is planning for the day that serious pressure arrives to remove themselves from Crimea. For those without a crystal ball-- Russia will try to force a vote of where Crimea should be aligned -- and of course if you have displaced the MAJORITY that preferred Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion in 2014 and replaced them with Russian puppets etc etc All the more reason to never allow a vote to happen.
Since the Russian occupation of Crimea began four years ago, the combination of its longtime residents being forced to leave and new people from Russia arriving means that 20 percent of the population consists of people who did not earlier live on the Ukrainian peninsula, a shift that reflects a Kremlin policy that approaches the definition of genocide.
Over the last four years, Russian government data and Ukrainian estimates show that 268,000 people have arrived in Crimean and Sevastopol while 153,600 have left, something that has boosted the ethnic Russian share of the population to 20 percent or more.
Russians moving into occupied Crimea now form one-fifth of its population
Given shortcomings in the data, all three of these numbers almost certainly understate the size of these changes, with more arriving, more departing, and more Russians in the population.
Still more troubling, the official statistics show that the number of new arrivals has remained stable while that of departures has increased in the last year alone.
Russian officials have mostly stopped talking about this development, Eurasianet reports. But Crimean and Ukrainian officials have expressed mounting concern. Yevhenia Goryunova, a Crimean political analyst, refers to the departures as a form of “’soft deportation,’” by which Moscow achieves its goals by imposing unbearable conditions on the population.
As a result, “Crimeans are ever more often becoming aliens in their own land which is rapidly being populated by Russians,” most of whom are siloviki or government employees. As a result, Goryunova suggests, the trend will continue, with ever more natives leaving, ever more Russians arriving and the population gradually falling.
“Russia doesn’t need those who ever more often recall that they lived better when the peninsula was under Ukrainian administration. It does not want to see on the peninsula those who despite harsh restrictions are nonetheless ready to take part in protests – even when these are not political but a defense of business and property,” Goryunova says.
The portion of the population that the Russian occupiers are most interested in pushing out consists of the Crimean Tatars, according to Iryna Pribytkova of the Kyiv Institute of Sociology at the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences. They are being “provoked” into leaving as part of Russian occupation policy.
Russia’s Kerch Bridge will only accelerate this process, she adds, allowing Moscow to introduce more military technology and personnel and thus isolate and push out the Crimean Tatars and other non-Russians.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2018/10/19/russians-moving-into-occupied-crimea-now-form-one-fifth-of-its-population/
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Jay,
I have some GOOD and some BAD news!
first, the good!
Ukraine will soon be reunited with Crimea!
now the bad!
this will happen after Russia invades the rest of Ukraine in 2019!
Putin, was ALMOST deterred by your posts on RWD
but, after the pension fiasco, needs a poll boost!
so he decided to go ahead with the invasion and hire a troll army to counter your posts here on RWD!!!
he made your defeat a top priority with an unlimited budget!
didn'y you read about it in the indictment of Elena Alekseevna Khusyaynova ?
creating a troll army to attack you was on page 2!
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Jay,
I have some GOOD and some BAD news!
first, the good!
Ukraine will soon be reunited with Crimea!
now the bad!
this will happen after Russia invades the rest of Ukraine in 2019!
Putin, was ALMOST deterred by your posts on RWD
but, after the pension fiasco, needs a poll boost!
so he decided to go ahead with the invasion and hire a troll army to counter your posts here on RWD!!!
he made your defeat a top priority with an unlimited budget!
didn'y you read about it in the indictment of Elena Alekseevna Khusyaynova ?
creating a troll army to attack you was on page 2!
Crimea belongs to Russia, wether people like it or not. What happens in 2019, nobody knows, so its not news, its a wishfull thinking.
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I was in Crimea about three months ago watching the Russian military train specifically for the upcoming invasion of Ukraine, everyone in Crimea knows about this, it's NO secret...
took pictures inside a training camp for what's called a "shock battalion" where they're going into Ukraine dressed as civilians but armed to take over major control points
it's supposed to happen in summer 2019!
OR thousands of Russian military personnel were all playing an elaborate practical joke on me to get me to THINK they're going to invade
guess we'll have to wait until summer to see...
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Crimea belongs to Russia, wether people like it or not. What happens in 2019, nobody knows, so its not news, its a wishfull thinking.
Yeah ,right -- and the laws of the civilised world says otherwise !
Even where it was the denunciation that drew the FSB’s attention to a person, there may be serious questions about the motives of those who made them. This can range from money or career enhancement to person animosity. The atmosphere of distrust in occupied Crimea has almost certainly been encouraged by the occupation authorities, which have also publicly called on Crimeans to inform on fellow citizens posting leaflets which they label as ‘anti-Russian’ and ‘extremist’.
Win a smartphone in Russia by denouncing neighbours for ‘extremism’
Anonymous denunciations of neighbours or workmates are no longer a bad memory from the Stalin era. ‘Informing’ the Russian security service [FSB] or authorities of ‘extremist’ or ‘anti-Russian’ activities has long been encouraged, often rewarded, in Russia under President Vladimir Putin, and denunciations, anonymous or otherwise, are also being used to spread fear and distrust in Crimea under Russian occupation.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1539552592&fbclid=IwAR3z1j_ZD2TqTg61_80m3t8j-giDk3LSUvmTqVAAD0mZlIYQ3fjvAHccz_E
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----Yeah ,right -- and the laws of the civilised world says otherwise---
------ every country has it's own laws. The world may say what they want, but de facto as it stands now Crimea belongs to RF.
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The idea some have tried to sell Ukrainians on to achieve peace on the mainland is now well and truly squashed as an acceptable idea. Over time Ukrainians have come to realise that there can be no appeasing of Russia -- Putin will do whatever he chooses at any given time to achieve his ends -- and pay lip service to any agreement made .
Even on this forum -- some here ( people that want the best for Ukraine) have thought out loud on the concept. The sense of Ukrainian identity is stronger than ever -- and that will only grow if Ukraine can continue to make progress .
The overwhelming majority (69%) of Ukrainians believe that Crimea should remain part of Ukraine and they are not ready to exchange it for Donbas, according to a nationwide poll
Ukrainians believe Crimea is part of Ukraine
"Starting from 2016, Ukrainians have consistently expressed an opinion that Crimea should remain part of Ukraine and the share of citizens who say so is 69% of the population of Ukraine. Over 80% of respondents in the country's western and central regions share the conviction that Crimea belongs to Ukraine, in the south - 56%, and in the east - 45%," the foundation's analyst, Serhiy Shapovalov, said at a round table meeting at Ukrinform, while presenting the results of the survey.
At the same time, an absolute minority in the south and the east supports Crimea's belonging to Russia - 3% and 10% respectively. Instead, a certain part of the population of these regions believes that Crimea should be independent (24% in the south and 18% in the east).
"Despite the great complex of problems that Ukraine has today, most Ukrainians (66%) consider it unacceptable to accept the proposal to 'swap' Crimea for Donbas, that is, to recognize the annexed Crimea as Russian 'in exchange' for Russia's withdrawal from the occupied territories of the Donbas (such 'exchange' is supported by 16%)," Shapovalov said
http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/2563579-ukrainians-believe-crimea-is-part-of-ukraine-not-ready-to-exchange-it-for-donbas-poll.html?fbclid=IwAR3EutcRdRH4t6ipYbOXoX8vRJwQ-ISJS_KOOcP51hQtr8zp6XpHql8-aOk
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Crimea belongs to Russia, wether people like it or not.
Stolen things do not belong to the thieves who temporarily hold them.
OxfordDictionary (En-En)
belong
verb [no obj.]
1) (belong to) be the property of
Stolen things are not property. They are called loot, booty, spoil.
If you put your hand into someone else’s pocket and remove something while they are asleep, sick or unconscious or simply do not expect this because you pretended to be their friend or brother, this thing does not belong to you just because you have it in your hands until they gain strength and take it back or law enforcement comes for you and the law finally prevails.
Use the correct language.