Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: KenC on January 26, 2005, 01:53:10 AM
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The biggest problem we have had with our large age difference (25 years) has been with other people's perception. We have heard some nasty comments and even have had a few confrontations, but for the most part we have had no problems between us regrding age difference. Of course my ex asks my adult children how my Russian adoption is comeing? I get a hoot out of that. What I think helps us greatly is that we both have total trust in each other. There are times when we do things seperately, which I feel is healthy in any relationship. It is also difficult to find "couple" friends. The women in couples my age are deathly afraid that their hubby's will take my lead and leave them for a hot young RW. The women in couples my wife's age, just don't seem understand that my wife is truly in love with me.
What have you experienced?
KenC
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Ken -
I shouldn't be posting in this section, I'm not married to an FSUW (yet!). That said, I have figured out my response to anyone who would be so rude as to comment on any age difference with anything like "So, this is your daughter?" <wink, wink>:
"No, this is my best friend, my confidant, my concubine, the love of my life, my soul-mate, and my wife".
Figured that would shut them up.
Kevin C.
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Goombah,
Well, you're one step ahead of me as I was not prepared for the first comment like you mention. But you can bet you ass I was ready for it the second time. LOL. And it has only happened twice in six years. I think our relationship works because we are both secure and confident people. I can see where any lack of trust could undermine this kind of relationship even more than most.
KenC
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The age difference between my wife and I is 22 years. I can honestly say that age difference has been no problem in our relationship - yet. The problems we have are more related to my ex-wife and the fact that she and I share young children. While Olya loves my children, the fact they are young and we both have to deal with a vindictive and hate-filled ex-spouse, has been difficult on our relationship at times. But that would be true with ANY relationship - it has nothing to do with Olya being from the FSU nor the age difference.
Having said that, Olya and I *have* discussed the future and how things are likely to play out with my eventual retirement while she is still in the midst of her career years. Further, we have a baby daughter, which means that early retirement (for me) is likely not a practical option.
Anyway, we are open and candid about our life together and what to expect. I am convinced that we have a better chance at a successful and happy long-term marriage than any woman I have ever known.
- Dan
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Thanks Dan. I too seek to have additional children, so any details you have that your willing to share on-line or off-line would be greatly appreciated.
Kevin C.
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Dan,
Lena and I have also discussed future plans and how thing may go. She has accepted her new nick name of "401-K". ;)
KenC
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Thanks Dan. I too seek to have additional children, so any details you have that your willing to share on-line or off-line would be greatly appreciated.
Kevin C.
Sounds like this may be a good topic to branch off.
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Large difference of age !!!
When i think that i was afraid about the 5 year between me ( 36 ) and Galina (31 )...
This difference was a problem with my ex russian wife, she was 19 and i was 29...
I think that how much is not a problem... man from 50 with woman from 30 can be perfect... but man from 38 with woman from 18 can lead to hell...
it is more a problem of maturity... a very young woman just start her adult life but a woman between 25 and 35 have already some experience... and a woman up 35 know enough the life and the real value...
Don't count if you feel yourself in harmony with you RW...
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Large age difference's.
Man, this RWD board hit's them tough questions head on. This is one of those half dozen highly emotional topic's that usually bring out the flame throwers. But I don't see any flaming going on here? Maybe we need some moderators to get things stirred up :D!
Age difference's. Just as the wovo versus wmvm debates, it is a strictly personal thing. What is the appropriate number of years age difference? Well their ain't no official book of appropriate entities like this, unless I somehow missed that chapter in You want a marry a Russian woman like me :shock:!
Ok, here we go with just one man's opinion.
The age of maturity for most Russian women is 23. Usually one full year out of the University these ladies are now more prepared and ready to leave mom, leave country and friends for a man they think they are in love with. These 19, 20 year old girls looking for a husband, most are just playing. Their are exceptions it seems more so in the very rural areas of Ukr, Russia and the FSU. I think many of these young 19 and 20 year olds are quite ready to leave and take a chance on a life elsewhere. And that usually means in good ole America this 21 and 22 year old will live out what she wanted to at 19 and 20. Parties, disco, staying out to 3am during the week. You know, things you did when you were 20 to 22.
I think most ladies of the FSU have no problem accepting men up to 10 years their age. It's natural. Now if a guy is special, in good shape, great personality, the average Russian lady think 12-13 years older is not a problem. It's almost natural. If the man is very well off financially, in good shape, good personality many of these ladies have no problem considering men 15 to 20 years their age.
And then their is that darn character, charm factor. The almost perfect chemistry relationship. And ohhh, it's the hardest to come by. In these cases a young attractive woman can meet a man 17 years her senior, 21 years her senior, 25 years her senior, and age never be a factor. They fall for the man because he is the man he is and she could care less about his age. She fell in love with him.
What are the chances of you finding a real, sincere lady in this category?....If you work hard, maybe 8 or 9%. And of course theirs always luck. Sometimes it just happens. A lot of the successful 'luck' large age marriages I have seen have come from unplanned meetings, where a man and woman just happen to meet in person in the FSU. No writing, just meeting on a busy sidewalk, or in the park, at the beach, a club or restaurant.
I feel most men should try to stay within 15 years of each other. Once you get up to 17-19-22 years age difference's the chances for a successful marriage decrease. It usually takes two very special individuals who can make marriages of 20 years or more work.
Such marriages to exist. I personally know of one couple with a 30 year age difference. My oh my, 30 years. I shake my head. But guess what, they have a five year old baby now, been married seven years and are happy.
I know of marriages 27, 25, 23 years age differences, that are healthy, happy, loving marriages. But I want to and must point out, these marriages are the EXCEPTIONS, they are not the norm! Most marriages of greater than 18 years are not going to make it. Few will.
It was never a problem finding a young and beautiful Russian woman to marry. And I think once guys realize they will have their choice of many fine young beautiful Russian women that they will get serious and look for a woman who is just as beautiful on the inside as she is on the outside. One they have a great chemistry with. And again, that usually takes work, or that ole dumb luck.
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jack, i have listened to you now for more than two, maybe three years (good god!)
i think your opinion has evolved because of some of the things you have seen as time progresses and we continue to learn about the women of the FSU.
i think you said it all.
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There seems to be a lot of converstion about age differnce here and I am just a bit curious what problems with that everyone perceives that this creates. To me it is an individual thing. I have seen very mature 20 year olds and some people who were up in years but had no maturity at all.
Even with American women until the last few years I was usually dating gals at least 20 years younger. I find that harder to do with American women now. With the Russian and Ukrainian gals I am going well beyond that. On my last Kiev trip in December the guy who was with me was 62 and was mainly interested in 19 year olds. To each his own I guess. He did not have a lot of trouble finding them and they did not seem to have a problem with him. I would't tell him this but he looked a lot older than he was.
My question is this. When you say that it is hard to have a relationship work with a big age difference do you perceive this as being because there is a difference in interests, or a difference in activities or because people will think that the guy is her father or grand father or they won't like the same music or where exactly do you see the problems? Anyway I am curious to see what the comments are on this.
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On my last Kiev trip in December the guy who was with me was 62 and was mainly interested in 19 year olds.
Wow - 62 to 19, more than 40 years! That's just hard for me to comprehend.
And to think, I thought 20+ years was pushing (even exceeding) the envelope.
My rationale for thinking so, has mostly to do with the notion of equity to my wife. If we both live to the ages statistics suggest, it means that Olya will be widowed sometime in her 50's - not the best age to be starting a new relationship - not to mention that she will have an adult child (or two), and those children will be relatively young (20's or early 30's) at the time of my passing.
When you really explore the pragmatic aspects of marrying a woman much younger than you, there are, unfortunately, a lot of factors that seem mostly selfish in favor of the older man.
At least, it seems so in my opinion.
I am not trying to talk anyone out of doing something they feel strongly about. The power of rationalization is incredibly strong, and I know it won't be surmounted by the logic of looking pragmatically at the future.
FWIW
- Dan
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Hi Dan,
That is a good and valid point that had not come out before. Now if your lovely lady had stayed in her native country and married a man her age and he lived to the average life expectancy for a male there, at what age would she be widowed. (I think just about the same so hopefully she is not making too big a sacrifice)
Next throw in the divorce rate there or even here. You are likely to be more appreciative of her and work harder to make the marriage work because otherwise you would have been suck with some old, stuck up, conceited american gal that would have made your life miserable so she is actually likely to have much more time with you working hard to make her very happy. She is far better off so you don't need to feel guilty about the age difference.
It seems to me like half the gals in Russia get divorced within 5 years or so. I think their fate is much better with an American guy even an older one. I am not sure how my friend will make out with his search for a 19 year old. He is going back this spring. I hope my searching is over. I expect to be starting the visa process for my gal pretty soon and yep, there is a 30 year age diffence.
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Hi guys,
A good rule to go by, though not always written in blood, try to make sure your RW's father is older than you.......:)
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Hey you guys,
I'm not married yet, but I will be in 4-6 weeks. I just want to say some thing things about the age thing if thats okay. Really, I don't think the age difference matters too much, as long as a guy is not just looking for someone for the sake of being young and you both are of the same maturity. Who cares what anyone else thinks. I am 44 and the gal I am engaged to is 39. When I found Tatiana, I was looking for an attractive lady, but also looking for intelligence and character. These things are important, but also being able to share some of the same events in history and for each of us to have an appreciation of these events. When you think about it, it is a miracle we can have a relationship with these women at all. I think one last thing I was looking for was to find someone I could grow old with.
I have got to say one last thing. When I met Tatiana at Borispol airport, the first thing I thought was "WOW, THIS IS A REAL LADY". I have never seen such gracefulness in any woman here in the USA. Pretty cool!!!!!!!!!
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Frank, you are lucky that you have found a RW who is close to your age, and congratulations. With my lady I have a twelve year age difference. She is pretty cool too.....:) I also inherited a wonderful and beautiful daughter in the process and with my natural son, they have a great brother/sister relationship (most of the time that is). With no disrespect intended with the other guys who have posted here in this thread, and more as advice to those of you who are in complementation of a relationship with a RW, whilst age difference should not be a concern, in reality it needs to be considered. A forty year age difference as mentioned elsewhere, with respect, is ludicrous and one would have to wonder what the real intentions are!
I was referred to this web-site BB by an "old colleague" who used to participate in the old "Russian Blacklist Forum", and where I also was a regular contributor.
The topic of age difference was vigorously debated in this forum I recall. It was generally accepted that you should not be older than your RW's father and that a max age difference of twenty years should be looked at. Obviously there are always exceptions to the rule, however, they need to be very good exceptions......
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There are 9.5 years difference between my wife and I (44/34). So far, no comments on the age difference and no problems between us. Funny thing was our first visit to the ABC Liqour store, they asked her for ID and when she could not show any (didn't have her wallet with her), they asked her to wait outside! She was carded 3 or 4 more times since then.
Age is a mind game, you are as old as your mind tells you! Most days I feel younger than my 44 years. Only after spending the weekend putting down a laminate floor for my parents, do I feel 94!
Great BB, Dan! Thanks for inviting me.
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I have a hard time when people try to use a formula for the maximum allowable age difference. All people are different and just cannot be put into a math equation. I didn't seek out a woman 25 years my junior. If I had, then that would be a problem. I just happened to fall in love with a woman that is that much younger. Truth be known, I wish Lena was about 10-15 years older or better yet, I was 10-15 years younger!:D But fate put us together and we deal with it. Our age difference was the single most difficult negative for me to over come in deciding to marry. Lena never had a problem with it. Marrying a woman significantly younger is not for everyone. It is for the secure, confident and patient man. If you are the jealous type, forgetaboutit.
KenC
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Hey Ken,
Over the last two and a half years, without mentioning your name, you are the couple I have in mind when I tell other men that marriages of 25 years age difference's do work. Other couples come to mind when I mention 30 years, 27 years, 24 years age difference. I DO know that healthy, happy, loving marriages of several year age difference's do exist. And I also strongly advise that these marriages are the exceptions, not the norm.
How can I not support a man who seeks a woman 20 years younger than him? I know many such marriages happily exist. And as each of us with many years age difference's know, these marriage take two special individuals.
I will repeat something I saw you (KenC) write about three years ago and when you wrote it I said, "yep, he's right on with that". And I wonder how many men actually took in what you said from that statement? How many men did that shoot right over their heads?
You wrote "If you are a jealous type guy, DO NOT seek a young and beautiful wife".
If you are the jealous type guy you will go crazy, as well ruin your relationship with your wife.
A good Russian woman can always be trusted. And the quicker a man realizes that, the better. Many, because we can't say all, good Russian women love a man who is not jealous and is trusting of her.
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ok, i'll chime in...
when i first started looking in the FSU, i tried to keep the age difference minor. i'm 48. my first major girlfriend was svetlana. she was 33, now 34.
my next major girlfriend, one whom i even did the K-1 with is 25. 23 years age difference.
never did it even occur to me there was any real difference, nor with her.
i'll go on to say that this relationship, which jack observed some first hand, is one of the relationships jack will think of when thinking of age differences that work. i broke it off with dasha for reasons unrelated to her age.
i then began searches with an age down to 25. i resisted writing to anyone younger, regardless of how overwhelming her photo was.
the problem is, a week later i'll get a first inquiry from the same 21 or 22 year old that i resisted writing in the first place. now i'm writing to an 18yr old and a 19yr old. both replied to my profile first. i think it's crazy on one level and i brought this up in my reply to each lady. the 18 yr old could not care less and writes some of the best and most responsive letters i receive. the 19yr old refers to us as a "father/daughter" type relationship and claims she loves relationships like this. both are beautiful (in their photos). i made the age difference an issue and each wrote very good letters in response that show a level of maturity i do not see here. so, out of curiousity i intend to meet both ladies this spring and i am openminded towards other ladys of any age who write to me first. if something comes of these meetings, and any type of relationship ensues, i'll explain the risks and benefits. i'm willing to trade the years i have left with a lady in the prime of her life. in return, i'll give her the love, stability and a healthy environment for any potential family. i'll also explain how i will be sure she is provided for in the event of my death. (hopefully of a heart attack at age 99 after a vigorous round of lovemaking).
:dude:
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I think all of you are very fortunate to have found your wives. Having children thrown in to the package is a plus as far as I am concerned. Kids are great.
There is one thought that comes to mind when I read all of the posts; we guys cannot use the same criteria to assess the value of former USSR women that we use to measure western women. Yes, there are characteristics that all women have in common. However, these women think differently, have different motives and goals. That is partially why is is difficult to state an exact age span that is appropriate for these relationships. What a mystery!
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Okay,,, here comes my first official comment or question since I was made aware of this web page.. (by the way, Dan, it has been very educational.)
I am 48 and have been in contact with several different RW between 34-38 for about 4-5 months. It is time to go over and meet a couple of them.. The ones that I seem to have the most in common with, have boys 14-16 years old. This is fine with me, I had two sons of my own and had so much fun (preparing them for adulthood) that I would gladly do it again. I am a pretty active person. My concern is for the boys. It would take them a while to learn the language so they could complete their education. I remember the kids that I went to school with and the ones that were older than their grade level caught a lot of grief. Should I be concerned about the time the boys might loose in their education level if I move them to a completely new environment at this age? I have thought that a younger child 5-8 may adjust a lot smoother. I know that this is suppose to be about the relationship with a new wife, but I can't help thinking I will fall into the total father mode and get wrapped up in these other concerns of a young teenager dropped into another world. With today's temptations and activities that a youngster can get involved, I foresee a lot of guidance being needed. Do you think a RW who has up to now been the adult responsible for her son would let her new husband take a strong and immediate role in his life.
Is there anyone who could comment on the adjustment of the children?
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Tagger585, you pose a good question...:shock: From my own experience, I found that once I had my RW's trust and my daughter accepted me as "Dad", (which was interesting because she always used to call me by my given name until she heard my son call me "Dad".....:) after which she then felt at ease to call me Dad) and I gained her respect, she now takes instructions from me and as kids do now plays Mum against Dad.....:D. In my case I inherited my daughter when she was only six years old so the transition has been easier. The question with an older child is that they will have been conditioned more, and dependant upon their family history with the natural father, will no doubt influence how they will react with you. I think a firm set of guidelines will need to be established with both child and Mum, with Mum agreeing to support you. In many cases, the RW and her child/ren will have had some bad experiences and they, particularly the child/young adult will need to be encouraged to be open and honest with you, and need to know they they will not be punished or mistreated for being honest with you, which would not have been usually the case with their natural father.
One experience is that I have found that my RW has not been consistent with her discipline, being strict in one part and then becoming lenient, and then swinging back the other way. This can be disconcerting for the child too, and I am sure it is to do with being in unfamiliar surroundings etc.
One thing to be absolutely careful about, is that the RW may love you madly, however if you will not accept her child with the same affection and care, all the tea in China will not persuade her to live with you.
Therefore if your RW has a child/young adult, make sure that your relationship in that arena is exceptional, and you will win your RW's love affection and gratitude for life.....:D
With the age discussion, the wider age gap with the older RW's is not so much a problem for example 30yr RW with a guy up to 50 or thereabouts is OK, however it is the younger girls in their early twenty's or late teen's where the age difference does matter, as they are on to set the world on fire and believe they are invincible (as we all did at that age) and problems can be experienced, because the young RW has not experienced the "bad" times as the older girl has, particularly if the girl is a single parent and has had to learn the hard way to look after her off-spring without usually the aid of sole parent pensions and the like, to feed and clothe her and her child. This is the reality check, which is why the older RW is usually much more realistic in her expectations, genuine and is happy to look for an older guy with stability and financial security.
Anyway that's by two cents worth today.....:D
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Ah yes ,age difference.Beside pre-nups,this is the most common topic discussed amoung those of us seeking foreign brides.
The bigger age diff. the more problems.Common sense doesnt stop here.
Are you looking for a number? Ok, 15 years is pretty much considered the "max".
But the bigger reality is ;the max for who? Every single human and realtionship is different.We all know people who are old and young for their age.1 way to look at it is;Do you and her look "normal" together?If the average person saw you walking down the street; would they think ;couple or dad and daughter.Now one poster wrote of his 25 year age gap and how it posed problems ,but he and his wife ,worked through them.BRAVO!! I will venture to say ,he is an exception and being not very nice ,how about in 5-10 years ?,when she "learns the ropes "of America?.Yes when your 45 and she is lets say 20 ,its not a big deal.OK, fast forward,she is 40 (peaking sexually) ,you are 65,then what?
The lady I am engaged to is 16 years my junior ,attractive,but not a knockout.But the reason I want to wed. her is we have much in common,the main one being the same religion.
Really knowing the woman (spending time in country) and having many things in common ,is some of the best things you can do to "increase your success odds"
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OK, I'll bite, and not be offended by either answer: Do we look good together or look like daughter/father? Photo attached.
Kevin C.
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This, I do agree with 100%
KenC
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OK, I'll bite, and not be offended by either answer: Do we look good together or look like daughter/father? Photo attached.
Kevin C.
Kevin,
I have no comment on the father/daughter question - but that gal sitting next to you sure is a beauty! If her soul and mind match her external beauty, I think you've found a gem.
- Dan
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I can't see any normal 20 year old women who would be interested in a 62 year old man. Did he know he was getting ripped off? The largest reason I haven't gone over to Russia or Ukraine is that I don't believe these women will date older guys like me (37) lol ! Or at least there aren't enough of them.
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Then whimp out and don't go. I've already posted a photo of me and my current lady. There is a 21 year age difference. She was the 2nd lady I dated... Had I been 37 with my personality and manors, I would have had my choice of hundreds from the various agencies. ALmost all the ladies I preview have a specified age range of 30-45. How young are you looking for? At 37 you could get 18 year olds to be as serious as they are capable of.
Spend more time reading and surfing, and less time guessing.
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James,
It is all a hoax. There are no more young, good looking, intelligent and feminine women in any of the fsu countries. Go back to your coach and watch Happy Days reruns.
KenC
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I"m 36 & my lovely wife is 20 so we have a 16 year differential. I DO think in MY case age HAS made a difference. Usually due to her immaturity. The thing is we're married so I can't just chunk her for another one. I made a COMMITTMENT. By the same token we have been "together" going on 2 years. I met her & we were engaged when she was 18. Jack said something that was VERY true. The ladies in the RURAL areas/small villages etc tend to me more prone to marry.
Hopefully by March or April she'll be here so we're both VERY much looking forward to this. The age doesn't seem to bother us till she makes a stupid decision:D LOL!!
But in any case I've realized I'm going to have to put up with her. Also I'm sure when she arrives here in America she will probably grow up quite a bit seeing she won't have mommy to run to when trouble comes.
Overall I'm NOT sure I would do this again. In other words if we were to split I would NOT date or go after any ladies UNDER 23 or perhaps 24 or 25. Having said that I WAS writing one lady that was 25 that was VERY nice & I had a hard time choosing between her & my wife. My wife was just more persistant & agressive in her pursuit. I LIKED that!!:) When we met we just hit it off. Both her parents are older than me so that is cool. My age does not bother her at all. Of course I don't mind the PERKS of her youth either.:dude:
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You sure you want to go there with Frank? He's a longstanding warrior from other well known lists....hahaha and one of his favorite subjects to debate is the age difference thing :-) He's a good guy though, Hi Frank :-) Dave
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btw- your lady is very attractive. nice job
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"Nice job" may be premature. I think intelletually she is very interested, but emotionally may not be completely hooked yet.
I say this because it is relavent to the "big age difference" issue. Us older men go with the complete intention of marrying a lady if there are no show stopper differences and we have "chemistry" (whatever the hell that is, but believe me, it exists! The difference in how my soul reacted when I was with this lady vs. others is undescribable.) Had she been more aggressive, I could have been talked into becoming a one-week-wonder very easily. I think the younger ladies, especially the ones that have not been doing this for long, may not have thought it through as much as we have. I suspect many get talked into listing themselves at an agency by a friend. I've heard APW pays $20 "finder fees" to ladies that do just that - quite an incentive. Don't know if other agencies do the same. Anyhow, when they "click" with a guy, they have a whole bunch of issues to work out.
Short list:
Want to finish education before leaving FSU
Doesn't understand that degree isnt transferable
Scared of move to foreign country
Hasn't told parents she is thinking of this
Doesn't want to be seperated from family for year plus
Thinks man just wants sex and isn't serious
Fear of becoming sex slave (those stories are very wide spread amoungst the ladies)
Thinks foreign country like FSU ("What do you mean you have never traveled by train?") ("Not driving isnt a problem, I will take bus/train/metro...")
Doesn't understand importance of English
And the list goes on and on...
Kevin C.
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Goombah,
It isn't always true when you said "I say this because it is relavent to the "big age difference" issue. Us older men go with the complete intention of marrying a lady if there are no show stopper differences and we have "chemistry". When I went to meet Lena, I had no intentions of marrying. I went to meet a beautiful woman that I had gotten to know via phone calls. She too had no intentions of leaving her beloved Russia. Six years later we are very happily married and living in America.;) So much for intentions. LOL.
I wish you the best with your relationship, but be careful. If you have to convince her, then she may not be up to the commitment necessary to pull off a successful relationship. It is a very difficult process and not for the weak of heart.
KenC
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KenC - I note that you are 25 years older than your bride. I am 59, with a 34 year old physician girl friend in Russia. What is your actual age, as opposed to age difference?
(This is my first post over here. Some of you know me on another board.)
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Welcome Scott,
I actually think your 25 years dif will be less of a problem than mine. Lena was only 21 when we met and at that young age had more adjustments to make. With your gal being 34, I would think it would be aless of a problem. What stage are you at?
KenC
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About the looks aspect of it. Funny but I look younger than 36. My wifes friends & family all believe I was 24 or 25. She finally started lying & saying I was 27 just to get everyone to change the subject about my lookes. As for my wife she looks a OLDER than her age. I would venture to say she looks about 24. So that's cool by me. As for us in pictures & how we look together...well let's say that we look a little alike & people say we make a good couple. Some say we look like fraternal twins which is pretty scary...Anyways. Hi Dave!
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What stage, KenC? We've corresponded for several months and I visited her in Russia 3 weeks ago. She wants to marry me. (She's 34, 2 kids, lost her first significant other to a car accident and her husband, whom she married next, was apparently an unsuccessful criminal and abusive. I don't think she has much in the way of prospects in her provincial city.) She's clearly desperate to get out of Russia and give her kids a father and a better life. Whether she could ever love me - I don't know. Vice versa - same answer. But we share similar values and the chemistry is there.
I just finished a 7 year marriage to my first wife, who was 16 years my junior and British. Also, I have concerns about her daughter, almost 5, who may be autistic. I posted a lot of this stuff on another Board when I returned from my trip. I got a lot of good advice, but the advice I wantedfrom a poster named jb was not forthcoming as he had been banned on that Board. (I think he is also philosophically opposed toMay-December marriages.)
So, I guess the stage is pre-engagement.
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Scott,
You may have mis-read me entirely. I have no difficulties with age difference, per se. Certainly I have no room to throw stones, my wife is 13 years my junior as well.
The issue I hold with relationships that involve large age gaps has to do with how much time a man spends getting to know the much younger woman before he pulls the trigger and finds himself in a marriage that may not a good one. One can find themselves in the unenviable position of being nothing but a visa mule all too easily.
There are, of course, other aspects to be considered, i.e. where do you live? Community property may be an issue you have to deal with, can you put a legally supportable Pre-Nuptual before this woman, etc., and how will the very much younger woman blend with your existing family?
Questions of this sort are probably second nature to the qualified Legal Beagle, but I would advise extreme caution to any love sick 50 y.o. before he jumps in bed with a super-willing 20 y.o. As someone smarter than me once said, "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is."
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Well this topic has been beaten to death over and over again...
It is not about numbers. There is no numerical formula. It is about two people and their relationship. It is also about how their family and friends view that relationship.
If the relationship is real it will last. Large age differences do present difficulties but these can be overcome by compramise. If as JB hints the guy is in lust with his wife's hard young body and she with his mature fat wallet - the outcome is predictable.
Other peoples opinions are another matter. Often they can't be changed. In my experience this has been a problem. Certain members of my family and friends made unacceptable comments on our relationship. Goodbye. You live your life. We will live ours.
By the way Natasha is 20 years younger than me...
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they're jealous
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As some here know I was not even looking for a RW, much less a younger one when I met my wife. (aprox. 17 years diff. 45/27)
Regarding kids, I had always wanted another child but had basically given up on the idea. Besides the risks of pregnancy with a woman my age, adding the risk of an orphan teenager was simply pushing the envelope too far.
Quite honestly this was a factor when I was considering the future of our relationship. We both wanted another child and our age difference sort of made the proposition feasible. Sort of like the icing on the cake.
Midlife Crisis hit pretty hard in the late 30's and into the 40's. I'll be the first to admit that it contributed to my feelings going into this relationship.
Isn't the "RW like older men" hype a bit irresistable for men in their 40's who might also want kids? It's quite interesting that I was aware of MOB before meeting my wife but I never seriously considered it.. was it because I didn't hear about being able to also marry a younger woman? :shock:
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Scott,
You may have mis-read me entirely. I have no difficulties with age difference, per se. Certainly I have no room to throw stones, my wife is 13 years my junior as well.
The issue I hold with relationships that involve large age gaps has to do with how much time a man spends getting to know the much younger woman before he pulls the trigger and finds himself in a marriage that may not a good one. One can find themselves in the unenviable position of being nothing but a visa mule all too easily.
Ahhh. I did misread you entirely, jb, and it's good to have your slant. You're saying that the geezer has to be more careful and take his time. With that I agree. He certainly must make sure the head on top of his neck is the one doing the thinking for him. With my current girl friend I would have thought that being a green card mule was not an issue - she wanted a father for her children. But then, I didn't have the experience, and when I went to visit her, her daughter, not yet 5, acted very strange, autistic almost, and I began to think that she wanted a man to help her raise a child with special needs. So while the possibility of being a "mule" wasn't there, perhaps she was looking for a pack horse to help her with the heavy lifting.
A couple of months ago you chided me for looking for a mid-30s physician and you said it would be a year or two before I could bring her (and her family) here, and what business did I have as a 61 year old man with such a young woman. I thought that was a criticism of a May-December romance. And I think you (or someone who posted right after you) said "she's young enough to be your daughter." My response summed it all up: "Yes, but my daughter is now 7." The bottom line for me was that since I had delayed for so long raising a family, and since I was now doing it with a 7 year old daughter, where I have custody, I would just as well do it with an attractive young woman with one or two kids similarly situated, who could help me with the heavy lifting.
When I was with my girlfriend I thought that she as using her rather effective sexual prowess in trying to rush me into a decision. It almost worked, and it still draws me to her. (My translator told me later that he thought she was "average" in that respect for a FSUW. If so it explains why the Russians fought the Nazis so hard.)
If I do go into this I will try to protect myself as best I can. But a man can never protect himself from a woman who is willing to accuse him of physical abuse to secure her green card when going home is the alternative, and if she stays and gets her green card, she also can divorce me in a few years and I'll be on the hook for support and possibly half of what I made during the marriage. So the big question is going to be whether the benefits (all of them, the young wife, the family, the sex, the help in raising my daughter) are worth the risks (equally big). At least I will be going into this with my eyes open. I just hope that the head on top makes the decision!
Glad to see you back, jb.
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Hey Dave, I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm not the well known Frank from other lists. Really, this is pretty much the only place I've posted messages. I don't really enjoy the internet too much. Honestly, I am here participating because I miss my fiancee'. So, I like talking about these women and wonder what nice things I'm in for. As for age span, It really doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that I can relate on the same level of the gal I'm going to marry. If she was 25 or 30, that would be fine. It just so happens my gal is 39 and I'm 44. All I can say is I am extremely fortunate I found someone to spend my life with. That is what matters. Now, if you want to get me wound up, just start talking about prenups. That is something I don't like:))))) If your going to jump in to the water, test the water first and then jump. marriage takes commitment. How can one be committed with one foot out of the water? Just my opinion.
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Hey Dave, I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm not the well known Frank from other lists. Really, this is pretty much the only place I've posted messages. I don't really enjoy the internet too much. Honestly, I am here participating because I miss my fiancee'. So, I like talking about these women and wonder what nice things I'm in for. As for age span, It really doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that I can relate on the same level of the gal I'm going to marry. If she was 25 or 30, that would be fine. It just so happens my gal is 39 and I'm 44. All I can say is I am extremely fortunate I found someone to spend my life with. That is what matters. Now, if you want to get me wound up, just start talking about prenups. That is something I don't like:))))) If your going to jump in to the water, test the water first and then jump. marriage takes commitment. How can one be committed with one foot out of the water? Just my opinion.
Oh, no I wasn't referring to you. There is another member on here, and even though he didn't identify himself as Frank in his profile, or in any of his posts, it is his name. .... hahaha sorry Frank :-) maybe he didn't want people to know? :-) Oh, he is known on this list as: LookingforRW . Anyway sorry for the confusion.
Pre-nups? ....well you're preachin to the choir here! :-) and I have debated this with guys who think it is a must. I think if a guy has to get a pre-nup, then he really shouldn't be getting married anyway. To me, is like you say marriage takes committment, either do it, or don't. Take care Dave
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Dave,
A prenup is but one arrow in a man's quiver and having one has nothing to do with commitment to a relationship. Premarital contracts are very common when one or both of the people getting married has a great deal to loose. My lady fully understood what was in our premarital contract before we filed for the K1 visa. I made very sure to have the contract translated into Russian and reviewed by a respected Russian legal firm in Moscow , my lady was free to speak with the attorneys and ask any questions so there could be no question she understood the terms of the contract.
Is this kind of thing romantic? No, but if a man has amassed a sizeable fortune or anything else he cares about then a premarital contract is necessity in todays world as are protected trusts and offshore accounts. Of course if you have nothing to loose or are the foolish trusting soul then you take your chances, as for me I have too much to loose to take chances anymore.
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TigerPaws,
Would love to go into prenups in depth with ya but I wouldn't want to bust this age thread. Maybe we could meet in the experienced thread and compare quivers? ;)
Regardig age differences I think a lot has to do with the optics of a couple when they are together.. some seem to 'fit' together regardless of the difference and some don't.
Doesn't mean it won't work, just that a closer optical 'fit' might make things easier.
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[user=101]Dave_home[/user] wrote:
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Dave,
A prenup is but one arrow in a man's quiver and having one has nothing to do with commitment to a relationship. Premarital contracts are very common when one or both of the people getting married has a great deal to loose. My lady fully understood what was in our premarital contract before we filed for the K1 visa. I made very sure to have the contract translated into Russian and reviewed by a respected Russian legal firm in Moscow , my lady was free to speak with the attorneys and ask any questions so there could be no question she understood the terms of the contract.
Is this kind of thing romantic? No, but if a man has amassed a sizeable fortune or anything else he cares about then a premarital contract is necessity in todays world as are protected trusts and offshore accounts. Of course if you have nothing to loose or are the foolish trusting soul then you take your chances, as for me I have too much to loose to take chances anymore.
I disagree very strongly about the need for a pre-nup for any man. I have many very good reasons for this, but like another poster said, we should take this to a topic in itself.... I'll write it and put it in the "Experienced" group. I'll edit this post when I have posted a proper reply to this subject. thanks Dave UPDATE> I have posted some thoughts about this in the "Experienced" section under Pre-nups..
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What is the difference between a single 40-year-old woman and a single 40-year-old man?
The 40-year-old woman thinks often of having children and the 40-year-old man thinks often about dating them.
:-)))
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Far too much noise about this topic. The "great debate"??? You can talk the horse to death. Everybody has their measurements, calipers, prejudices, and opinions etc. And it is really quite simple. There are some guys who are in their 40's, 50's, and 60's who would be considered both attractive and desireable to women 20 or 30 years younger in any country.
Almost always these guys will be fairly to extremely successful in their culture. Fairly smart, literate, charming and fairly good looking. And whether the prevailing currency is Dollars, Euros, or Seashells...they have got some currency and assets. I think our buddy Ken C is one of these. Although many of you may not be.
I have never seen women either younger or older fall in love with an older guy who is poor and stupid, but I would guess it is possible, albiet rare.
Women? You know when they are interested and you should know that they couldn't care less. Unless, perhaps one is delusional.
Marriage? There are no sure things in marriage--debate it all you want. Any marriage is a gamble. For one thing...people change.
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Kevin posted: "OK, I'll bite, and not be offended by either answer: Do we look good together or look like daughter/father? Photo attached. Kevin C."
I think you do look like daughter/father. And, many of the other photos posted on these sites look like daughter/father.
But, I wouldn't let that stop you. I am sure myself and many of my RW/UW dates also looked like daughter/father. It just can't be helped.
George Burns used to say he didn't date women his age . . . . cause there weren't any.
In my case, the women my age look like my mother, so I am forced to go younger. I would actually like to find some closer to my age, but those aged women are not computer savy for e-mailing and generally not as English savy as the younger gals.
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Albert, have you thought of maybe running personal ads in many of the smaller size cities, say 50,000 and less as well as many of the smaller villiages and cities from 1000 to 20,000 people. A great many of these ladies may also not be so computer savy but sure know how to write a letter. I'v seen some pretty good results.
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The ads in the local papers do get looked at. I remember the women in the kitchen discussing them quite regularly. Towns of 100,000 are pretty 'small' by their standards and there are a lot of towns this size.
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KenC & Jack,
I am going to agree with your statement "If you are a jealous type guy, DO NOT seek a young and beautiful wife" you as a man need to feel secure about your relationship otherwise you are doomed to failure.
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Albert,
When I am asked by someone I know where to look in Russia for a lady I usually ask what he is looking for, what dose he want in a relationship if he could have exactly what he wanted. That question is often met with a blank stare because most men have never thought about looking for a lady that way. Once a man can answer what he wants then he can decide how to go about finding it and what compromises he is willing to make
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I agree with Jack about advertising in small town. My wife is from a town of 15,000. She saw my ad WITHOUT picture & responded. In the next issue she saw my ad WITH picture & was REALLY glad she responded:cool: I think if I was doing this again I would DEFINATELY hit the smaller towns. During my first visit in Lugansk my friend Victor told me if i was looking to get MARRIED I should stay away from the LUgansk city girls & hit the small towns & villages. He even volunteered to introduce me to ladies from there. The only possible drawback might be they might not know English. In my case my wife was is fluent.
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[user=26]5150[/user] wrote:
But in any case I've realized I'm going to have to put up with her. Also I'm sure when she arrives here in America she will probably grow up quite a bit seeing she won't have mommy to run to when trouble comes.
My friend, you have my sincerest condolences. May the force be with you.
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Gee, thanks Muzh.
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KenC,
Yours is a successful marriage without a doubt. You have elsewhere said that failed marriages indicate character failings. I used to think you meant that the WM were at fault. The more I have thought about it, and in all the cases I know of, the predominant defective character was an unscrupulous FSU woman with an agenda. Where the marriage fails for 'legitimate' reasons, in most of these cases the man has a wallet shortcoming. Some are guilty of over promoting their finances or house or city before the woman comes West. Your own wife may be no better or worse than most FSU females. She is a loyal wife to you because she has a very comfortable life, does not have to work, drives her own Mercedes, and also does not have many domestic duties. My own fiancé "tried it on" to get me to do more than my share of housework. I am still doing all the money earning, but she does most of the cooking and does some limited cleaning. These young women are not like their mothers. There are compensations, these ladies know how to look after themselves and take care of their man. Divorce can strike any man at the least expected moment, including those that think everything is going great, and those that think like this are hit hardest emotionally. FSU women seem to initiate almost 100% of divorces with Western husbands, at least based on the individual cases I know of.
JB,
Your sceptical take on things seems to contradict your happy marriage of three years to an FSUW. Do you have prior bad experiences? I like your comment about if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. This saying has at times haunted me for almost eighteen months, because my own relationship is almost too good to be true. Except if I factor in financial and western residency considerations. One day when we argued, my young UW said, you could not have got someone as good looking and as young as me in your country. I reflected and answered truthfully, if I had been willing to spend the same amount of money on her as I have spent on you, I probably could have.
Scott Jay and 5150,
I agree that going ahead with an FSUW of any age is a risky proposition, but with very high rewards. Especially where the age gap is bigger. 5150, maybe you should think hard about whether to bring her West - maybe live with her again in the FSU before deciding. Better to end it while she is still in the FSU if you know it is going to be a disaster. In my own case the age gap is over twenty years, though I am eighteen years younger than her father. Also, her last long-term partner was a lot older than me. Like most UW, my lady shows some volatile personality characteristics at times. These have actually considerably lessened and improved in the west. So the West brings out the worst in some women, and the best in others.
As long as the WM's finances remain good he probably has nothing to worry about. Also, avoid all women who flirt with other men, such as making eye contact with strange men.
Re this age gap where 90% of guys say they look younger than their years stuff. Why do we men have to keep saying this? Is this evidence of some sort of self-delusion? I look my age, but I look ten years younger than FSU men my age. In fact, most FSU men my age are already dead. Who cares if people notice the age gap - they will be jealous. My own experience in the West thus far is that only one woman in her eighties has been nosey whilst my UW was with me - "why did you go to Ukraine" etc. Next time, I will deflect any such questions. When alone and before I went to Ukraine, I had many negative comments and warnings. Also, my UW had many negative comments from well meaning relatives such as her babushka. He is too old for you. I only know this because my fiancé told me. KenC, it is almost certain that your wife heard similar advice out of your earshot, or in your earshot if you don't speak Russian.
Prenup issue. I know of two recent cases involving a UW wife with one baby or more born to their loving Western husband. In both cases the UW ended the marriage. One UW got 25% of the man's entire assets after a five-year marriage, and in this case the man was more than twenty years older than his wife. The other UW wife got 75% of the man's entire capital; and in this case the man was just two years older than his wife. This marriage was shorter. Neither had a prenup. Good luck to the naïve trusting souls out there. My prenup might be thrown out in court, then again maybe not, especially as signing one was originally my fiancé's idea and also we discussed it several times whilst still in the FSU.
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Too many guys get fixated on an age range, and it is Always down, never straight across. Sure, you may start with good intentions but after looking at page after page of eye candy, the lower age limit drifts slowly, but inevitably downward. Hey, 25 year old girls are hot, but 18 year old girls are even hotter! I understand. I've broken my own age limit rules.
Yet, lets for a moment try to sort fantasy from reality and ask the question, are middle aged RW really that bad? I went to one popular website and looked around. Take a look:
http://www.angelika.net/ladies/fx4670.shtml (http://www.angelika.net/ladies/fx4670.shtml)
http://www.angelika.net/ladies/xu5741.shtml (http://www.angelika.net/ladies/xu5741.shtml)
http://www.angelika.net/ladies/zc1803.shtml (http://www.angelika.net/ladies/zc1803.shtml)
http://www.angelika.net/ladies/si9901.shtml (http://www.angelika.net/ladies/si9901.shtml)
OK, that took me about 5 minutes to find them. So, the answer is no. RW can be as beautiful as anyone could possibly expect (IMO). If you combine that with wisdom and maturity that age often brings, it's not a bad package, is it? So why are guys drooling over women half their age? What's the reason for that (he asks, rhetorically)? You might just want to ask yourself that question.
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
KenC,
Yours is a successful marriage without a doubt.
So far (5.5 years) so good, but any marriage can go sideways for a multitude of reasons because people change over time.
You have elsewhere said that failed marriages indicate character failings. I used to think you meant that the WM were at fault. The more I have thought about it, and in all the cases I know of, the predominant defective character was an unscrupulous FSU woman with an agenda. Where the marriage fails for 'legitimate' reasons, in most of these cases the man has a wallet shortcoming.
I have to respectfully disagree. From my experience, I have witnessed 4 divorces or very strained marriages involving RW. All involved men with weak character traits. Three were with controling & insecure men where there were no financial concerns as the men were rather well off. These three were in their 40's and married RW in their early 30's. The fourth was an extremely naive man in his early 30's that married a RW in her late 20's. There wasn't a lot of money involved in this one, and there was no age factor differences, but there was a huge gap in personalities. She was a firecracker and he was a dud. This was the one RW who may have had an agenda. But I really think that he acted out of character while in Ukraine (out going, attentive and fun) and then resorted back to his hermit ways once she arrived.
Some are guilty of over promoting their finances or house or city before the woman comes West. Your own wife may be no better or worse than most FSU females. She is a loyal wife to you because she has a very comfortable life, does not have to work, drives her own Mercedes, and also does not have many domestic duties.
I can understand how you can conclude this, but it is simply not true. In the time that my wife has been here, I have suffered a severe financial set back. It was during that time that my wife stood shoulder to shoulder with me and skimped penneys to get through. Never did her love waver. I cannot say the same for my ex-wife (American). Now that finances have "normalized", of course she will share in the fruits of my labor. Loyalty is a huge deal to me.
Also, my UW had many negative comments from well meaning relatives such as her babushka. He is too old for you. I only know this because my fiancé told me. KenC, it is almost certain that your wife heard similar advice out of your earshot, or in your earshot if you don't speak Russian.
My wife has had nothing but encouragment from her family regarding me. Her Mom thinks we are the perfect match for each other. I am very welcomed into Lena's family. But Lena has heard the negative comments you speak of from her peer group here in America. They cannot seem to accept that ours is a marriage based on love and not money. They are always on the look out for cracks in the story.
KenC
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You wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
I have to respectfully disagree. From my experience, I have witnessed 4 divorces or very strained marriages involving RW. All involved men with weak character traits. Three were with controling & insecure men where there were no financial concerns as the men were rather well off.
__________________________________________________________
KenC,
Thanks for the reply. My age, and age gap to my fiancé, is pretty close to yours so I am in the same boat. I initially chose to only meet women over thirty, but after being burned by a cunning woman in her forties I decided to lower my limit to twenty five, with surprising results. I immediately met three very attractive women under thirty who were very interested in me. When I chose the forty plus year old I had just wasted two weeks in Kiev trying to find someone who wanted me as a person. Ha, naïve fool I was! Second time around, I decided to show em my assets - a photo of my house. What a difference this made in my attractiveness to FSUW. Turns out I was a pretty desirable guy. Sorry if my cynicism is showing, but these were my experiences based on meeting about thirty five women during my first two visits to Ukraine. Only the last ten got the photo treatment. Though also, I had relaxed and was less anxious to find a wife and instead just wanted to enjoy myself. This attitude change changed everything in my favour.
The chances of my marriage lasting five years are probably less than 50% but I am going to give it my best shot and enjoy every day of the attempt. Also, the prenup we will sign will reduce the financial rewards of her leaving, or trading up. I also have had financial setbacks even while still in the FSU and have always discussed these with my UW fiancé. Rightly or wrongly, my policy was to be honest right from the start. With my UW, this has paid dividends, though some FSUW are not so open and honest so this can be a pitfall. My UW claims she cannot understand money matters.
Essentially I agree with your idea about some men being flawed except for one point. FSUW are smart and they know men and what men want. So, why were these FSUW women attracted to, and even marry, these "controling & insecure men"?
To partly answer my own question. My own UW met only one other WM, according to her. He was much more wealthy than me, but she did not like him (nor he her). So she had the choice of just two WM in several months. In the West, she now has an available pool of thousands if not millions single and married men. Without a doubt, some FSUW women choose and marry substandard men (to them) but have no intention of staying with them a day longer than necessary. The numbers of these women may be higher than the circles you move in.
Same goes for less intelligent and wealthy WM. I know one such man. He is short and he is not intelligent and he does not have money. He is a nice guy with a pleasant personality and he speaks and reads Russian after spending half of every year in the FSU. Yet a Moscow woman married him moved West and lived with him for three years in his less wealthy suburb. At the end of that time she married one of her co-workers, who had ocean views and a Porsche in the garage. Do you think that she left him because he was a controlling & insecure man?
Maybe one reason some married WM become controlling and insecure is because he knows or suspect something about his FSUW. An example would be the unfortunate man who has married a flirt of any nationality.
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
Same goes for less intelligent and wealthy WM. I know one such man. He is short and he is not intelligent and he does not have money. He is a nice guy with a pleasant personality and he speaks and reads Russian after spending half of every year in the FSU. Yet a Moscow woman married him moved West and lived with him for three years in his less wealthy suburb. At the end of that time she married one of her co-workers, who had ocean views and a Porsche in the garage. Do you think that she left him because he was a controlling & insecure man?
Maybe one reason some married WM become controlling and insecure is because he knows or suspect something about his FSUW. An example would be the unfortunate man who has married a flirt of any nationality.
[/quote]
Spartans,
You bring up a good point..
Remembering that men posting on these forums are only a small slice of the pie:
Are women in general 'trading up' for money and status?..
And are men in general 'trading up' for beauty and youth?..
Interesting thoughts..
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I posted this in another thread, but really, it belongs here. For those of you who think a large age gap is acceptable, here is an opportunity to read what RW are saying behind your back. The poll at the top of the page indicates the acceptable age difference. There were 23 respondents and only 1 thought 16+ years was ok.
However, the comments are far more interesting! If you do not read Russian, use one of the free translators on the web. Be forewarned that the comments are pretty vicious. These RW do not pull any punches when it comes to a man writing to an RW half his age. Yet, this is real.
For those of you who are married to much younger women, I'm not posting this to be disrespectful. I will guess you, or more likely your wives, have heard it all before. I don't imagine you need to read this, it will not make your day.
http://www.antidate.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243 (http://www.antidate.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243)
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NWkid,
Those of us who are able to read Russian, or have a Russian wife, have commented on what the RWs are saying before. This is nothing new.
And you are correct, they don't pull punches with each other. They will label a girl a "golddigger" quicker than we will. It seems there is always a few girls who think it's perfectly OK to marry an old AM guy who has money, live with him for 3-5 years while they prepare the "landing strip" for their RM, who is in on the deal. As far as they are concerned, it's strickly a short term inconvience.
Unfortunately, these girls are usually the ones from the small villages who never had 2 kopecs to rub together and call their own. It's no wonder that they are willing to prostitute themselves in this manner as a way out of such stinking poverty.
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
Second time around, I decided to show em my assets - a photo of my house. What a difference this made in my attractiveness to FSUW. Turns out I was a pretty desirable guy. Sorry if my cynicism is showing, but these were my experiences based on meeting about thirty five women during my first two visits to Ukraine. Only the last ten got the photo treatment.
This is kind of a two edged sword. On one hand the want the woman to know your ability to provide a good life for her (only right) and on the other, you do not want her to base her decision mainly on your finances. The fact of the matter is that this stuff is all very basic. A man will most always be attracted to youth and beauty whereas a woman will most always be attracted to a good provider. It is human nature.
Though also, I had relaxed and was less anxious to find a wife and instead just wanted to enjoy myself. This attitude change changed everything in my favour.
My guess is that your attitude probably had more impact than your photos. Too many guys force things with marriage in mind, rather than just being themselves.
The chances of my marriage lasting five years are probably less than 50% but I am going to give it my best shot and enjoy every day of the attempt. Also, the prenup we will sign will reduce the financial rewards of her leaving, or trading up. I also have had financial setbacks even while still in the FSU and have always discussed these with my UW fiancé. Rightly or wrongly, my policy was to be honest right from the start. With my UW, this has paid dividends, though some FSUW are not so open and honest so this can be a pitfall. My UW claims she cannot understand money matters.
I only wish you the best of luck. It sounds as though you are doing all the right things. Not all RW are motivated by money.
Essentially I agree with your idea about some men being flawed [/size]except for one point. FSUW are smart and they know men and what men want. So, why were these FSUW women attracted to, and even marry, these "controling & insecure men"?
To partly answer my own question. My own UW met only one other WM, according to her. He was much more wealthy than me, but she did not like him (nor he her). So she had the choice of just two WM in several months. In the West, she now has an available pool of thousands if not millions single and married men.
I do know that you will not have a chance in hell of having a solid marriage if you worry too much about such things. Look at it this way: You take your best shot at making a reasonable decision, protect yourself from being taken advantage of and then make the best of it. Any marriage is a risk.
Without a doubt, some FSUW women choose and marry substandard men (to them) but have no intention of staying with them a day longer than necessary. The numbers of these women may be higher than the circles you move in.
Same goes for less intelligent and wealthy WM. I know one such man. He is short and he is not intelligent and he does not have money. He is a nice guy with a pleasant personality and he speaks and reads Russian after spending half of every year in the FSU. Yet a Moscow woman married him moved West and lived with him for three years in his less wealthy suburb. At the end of that time she married one of her co-workers, who had ocean views and a Porsche in the garage. Do you think that she left him because he was a controlling & insecure man?
A scammer is a scammer is a scammer. The same things (trading up or bailing out) can and do happen every day with AW.
Maybe one reason some married WM become controlling and insecure is because he knows or suspect something about his FSUW. An example would be the unfortunate man who has married a flirt of any nationality.
I disagree with the "flirt" comment. Most women love attention. A lot of RW are flirts. That is a lesson they learned well back in Russia. Being a flirt does not necessarily mean unfaithful. In marrying a much younger woman, the guy has to have rather thick skin and not be prone to jealousy. She is young and hot and certainly will draw attention once she arrives here. My experience is that most AM just do not know how to handle such gorgous women and some tend to make fools of themselves.
KenC
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300 Spartans,
I am not used to writing to so many people at once. ..300?
Anyway, I just gotta say something about the 'flirting' thang.
I love flirts. There's an art to it. It's just shallow fun.
I find women who flirt are more interesting and often
more intelligent than other women. It shows me also that
they are comfortable with being 'sexy'. Here in the US, most
women do not flirt. That's too bad. I guess it can make
some men feel insecure, but there isn't necessarily a
connection between unfaithfulness and flirting.
I appreciate women who can have fun with their sexuality.
The opposite extreme is way too serious for me. -doug L.
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[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
It shows me also that
they are comfortable with being 'sexy'. Here in the US, most
women do not flirt. That's too bad. I guess it can make
some men feel insecure, but there isn't necessarily a
connection between unfaithfulness and flirting.
Don't do like I did in a previous non AW woman.. flirting was fun but we ended up trying to outdoo each other and ended up flirting ourselves right out of the relationship.
OTOH sitting around watching your mate flirt around gets old quick.
She will get enough attention without even trying so best to leave it at that imho.
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Yeah, I see what you mean.
Flirting with each other is a good thing.
Flirting with another person outside of the relationship
is not a good thing. -doug L.
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I'm not married yet. Hopefully before the end of summer. :)
My fiance is 20 years younger and it does not bother her at all. :cool:
I spent a lot of time worrying about my weight and toning down and now she tells me she likes fat men. Now I have to gain 120 pounds before she arrives. :shock:
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My fiance is 20 years younger and it does not bother her at all
... yet:?
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I think I had better keep my mouth shut about the age difference between my fiancee and I. She is older than my grandkids though.
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There are several guys on this board who are happily married to ladies from 18 to 23 years older than themselves.
And I think each of those happily married guys will say that this is the exception, not the norm.
If a man will take his time, think with the right head, he can probably find the type of loving woman he had always (or first-dreamed) of.
Elen is from the old school that all Russian women who marry older men are out to use them and leave them.
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I am sure that is often the case. I think I mentioned in my posts a while back about one guy who was 63 and likes 19 year olds. I noticed he likes to show them photos of his house with servant quarters, the classic car collection, his private plane, his orchards and all his other posessions. I think if they fall in love it will be with the possessions and not him.
Heck I might scare off a Russian gal any age if she saw photos of my old pickup and my house. Well, I guess the bright things of the age difference is that she is 5 years older than the runner up was and if I get a couple of years of happiness that will be great and if I don't it won't be any different that when I was married to my american wife.
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I think this is the right forum.
http://www.russianwomenabroad.com/our_forum/viewtopic.php?t=12390&start=75
Here you can see what some of these 20+ year younger ladies think of their older husbands.
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jb, you have to have a password I think to get to the link your trying to show us, unless you can copy and paste.
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To put a different spin on this thread, I was best man at my closest friend's wedding Friday evening. He was the best man at Natalya and my wedding, and there he met my wife's maid of honor. Nine month later, they are married.
He'll be 43 next month. She is 23. He's American, she is Russian. They are so good together, that everyone who knows them can not think of a better couple. She is in the US on a J visa (self financed cultural exchange, exempt from the 2 year return clause). He needed to talk her out of returning to Russia about 4 months ago. She was in the US, so it's been there, done that... and was happy to return to her country. So not every 20 year age difference is based on the escape to the Golden PX and suck the sap dry.
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Elen is from the old school that all Russian women who marry older men are out to use them and leave them.
I/m from that school where I was learned to think ahead at more than honey moon:P
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Jack, I think Elen is trying to rationalize why a 34 year old woman would want a 54 year old man. Elen is trying to use logic and the logical thing is that the woman wants a green card and the means to obtain it. A meal ticket in other words. We are living in a age when 40 something AW are looking for relationships with younger guys. My cousin just turned 59 and she is engaged to a 54 year old doctor. Age can go both ways. My friend is 51 and his wife is 67 and they have been happily married since 1986. In the beginning my friends tried to talk me out of this and now her friends are doing the same with her. There is no rule book that says relationships have to have a prescribed age limit. If I had met someone 24 it would be a recipe for disaster. I have met a very mature 34 year old lady who does not show any signs of being a scammer or user. I even told a friend that even if within the 90 days it does not work out I still want to give her an opportunity to see my country and to visit her sister who married an American and is very happy. The fiance visa is good for one thing, it allows a little more time to be sure if it was the right decision. The 90 days may not be a lot of time but a lot can happen in 3 months.
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Nope I try to immagine what I would do with husband who's 20 yeras old than me after spending 20 years in marriage:?:?
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Elen, it might be a good thing. He will kick off 20 years before you and hopefully leave you some money and you will still be young enough to enjoy it. ;)
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Yeah that variant crossed my sceptical mind too. But it was accompaned by our silly saying "Я стою у ресторана, замуж - поздно, сдохнуть - рано":? (translated something like "I'm staiyng at restorant's doors. It's too late for me to marry, it's too early for me to die." How many of you do dream about 40 years old bride?
There were also two another opportunities for future in that kind of marriage
- professional home nurse who knows anything about prostatit-gastrit-and all others ailments with prefix "chronical" and who faced 2 or 3 husband's heart attacks
- young lover:P
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Yeah that variant crossed my sceptical mind too. But it was accompaned by our silly saying "Я стою у ресторана, замуж - поздно, сдохнуть - рано":? (translated something like "I'm staiyng at restorant's doors. It's too late for me to marry, it's too early for me to die." How many of you do dream about 40 years old bride?
There were also two another opportunities for future in that kind of marriage
- professional home nurse who knows anything about prostatit-gastrit-and all others ailments with prefix "chronical" and who faced 2 or 3 husband's heart attacks
- young lover:P
LOL
more like young lover... but they want our maidens to be their nurse
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LOL
more like young lover... but they want our maidens to be their nurse
Well, it is proabbly cheaper than paying for nursing care, not that many sensible women would hang around for such a deal.
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Elen,
My wife is 19 years younger than I am (50/31) now and we have been married for almost 5 years now, we have a 2 year old daughter and our relationship is extremily strong, now I will say that money is not and most likely never will be a problm for us.
That said of my original work crew of 17 men who were in Russia for almost 3 years on a construction project all of them brought back Russian wifes. The men ranged in age from 33 to 45, some had been divorced, some had never been married, the average age difference is between the men and their wifes is 18 years. It has been almost 5 years now sense our project in Russia was finished and I still keep in touch with 14 of the original 17 men in my crew, of those 14 there has been 1 divorce so far.
Maybe the sucess of these men is because they were living and working in Russia and that all of the men were well educated, maybe it is in part because they are all making very good money in their jobs. Non-the-less all of them including myself have younger wifes and we are all doing very well with their Russian wifes.
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Oh my TigerPaw's, these are not real numbers that Elen or Kvinna are going to like to read or share with their friends. 14 married couples, married for many years, one divorce and the average age difference being about 18 years.
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Jack,
Elen and Kvinna are like so many other people "Don't tell me what I do not want to hear". Better yet "Do not confuse me with facts that contradict my preconceived ideas".
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Tigerpaws,
That is incredible.
KenC
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Jack, Tiger,
I don't know Kvinna but about Elena, you are wrong... i know a little of the story of Elena and i understandt his reaction...
Imagine yourself, with a daughter who have just quit the adolescent periode ( 18 year ), not already a adult... and you see a foreign who can be your father and who will meet your daughter... i think that your own reaction will be to shoot him...
I understand the hate of Elena about old man who meet young woman but i am sure that she read so post with interest... and maybe each success story can calm her a little ... but without really stop his normal reaction like mother...
Now, i am sure that some go ask why she have not explain it before... simple, woman are more reserved about her private life, specialy russian one... they don't like show all her feeling to a large public...
For these of you who wish young lady, don't forget your potential mother and father in law... if they say "no", same if your relation with the young lady is good, you have a lot of chance that the marriage never happen...
Previously, woman have children very early in russia ( before 20 year old )... and with 19 old difference, a lot of chance that you mother and father in law are more young that you... :shock:
Maybe for Kvinna, Elena, Fiorella,... it can be interesting to know what think a RW married with a AM where the difference of age is more of 15 year... Now that the marriage is a success ( more of 5 year )... what is the advantage for her to life with more old man... like material security, maturity...
Let's go, explain to a mother why it can be good for a young lady to marry a older man !!! It will be difficult to convince Elena but her reply will be the reply of each mother in Russia...
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I have read with interest all the posts on age difference. My girl is 23 years younger than me. Some say it's ok, others say no. But it looks like a "go," so I am planning ahead. Naturally, I am confident about the relationship or I would not proceed. So that brings me to my question...where is a good place to live in the US if you don't want all the grief of having a younger wife? NYC? San Fran? I know Arkansas is not the answer :)
I also know New England is faster on visa paperwork, so I may move there in the beginning.
I can live anywhere since my work is everywhere. I am lucky in that sense. So, where is the ideal place for more liberal ideas?
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If you have meant that topic on AntiDate about age difference, then it was not about women who are married to much older men. They are adult and this is their choice. The topic was about that men who follows the girls that not look for older men (and they wrote about it in their profiles). Many of those men after they were rejected offend those girls
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Jack,
Elen and Kvinna are like so many other people "Don't tell me what I do not want to hear". Better yet "Do not confuse me with facts that contradict my preconceived ideas".
hm as I remember I don't know you, so you cannot be sure if we are like so many other PEOPLE OR NOT or it is new thread about us in personal?
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If you have meant that topic on AntiDate about age difference, then it was not about women who are married to much older men. They are adult and this is their choice. The topic was about that men who follows the girls that not look for older men (and they wrote about it in their profiles). Many of those men after they were rejected offend those girls
Yep that's the jist of what I saw on the antidate forum. Maybe it's the 'anti' that is upsetting everyone needlessly. Wish my Russian was better but even using translation software the site does not seem anti AM to the extent expressed here. A bit of contempt prior to investigation...
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Kvinna, I think most of us here are in agreement with many of your same thoughts and feelings. On occasion we hear about old men who only seek and want young girls. Like with you and many of your Russian lady friends, this does not leave a good taste with a lot of us.
It does happen Kvinna, the world is full of all kinds of people, good and bad. From my observation you and some of your girlfriends want to label, or consider, most foreign men involved in the pursuit for a foreign bride as bad. I think this is what is bothering a lot of the guys here. Just as you make reference to, and you are correct, in that we do not know you, how can we judge you? We want to say the same to you. You do not know us, how can you judge each of us?
Kvinna, I see a new member just signed up today, a retired army ranger. Ranger Joe is 68 years of age. Ranger Joe dates Ukraine ladies 40 years younger than him. Is that a lot of years age difference? You bet is it. Is this an example of some of the things you are referring to? Probably. Is this an everyday thing? No, this is the exception, not the norm. Ranger Joe in my opinion has some balls to openly discuss this, but then he is a retired ranger so one would expect him to have some balls. All I can say to this Kvinna is that there are also some very, VERY, wealthy older men in Russia, in Moscow for example and these 60-65-70 year old men also like to run with the young 20 year old Moscow girls. So please, when you ladies start talking about what you perceive as bad things being done by foreigners do not forget to look beyond your own back yard and again realize these are the exceptions, not the norm.
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All I can say to this Kvinna is that there are also some very, VERY, wealthy older men in Russia, in Moscow for example and these 60-65-70 year old men also like to run with the young 20 year old Moscow girls. So please, when you ladies start talking about what you perceive as bad things being done by foreigners do not forget to look beyond your own back yard and again realize these are the exceptions, not the norm.
please, give me some example when Moscow girl 20 y.o. is dating with Moscow old man 70 y.o.
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Jack,
Elen and Kvinna are like so many other people "Don't tell me what I do not want to hear". Better yet "Do not confuse me with facts that contradict my preconceived ideas".
I'm not stone-deaf, guys and do hear what you are talking here about. But I don't see any reason why should I change my opinion just because of you say something.
Let's spend at first 20 years in marriage like I did then you will be an authority for me in such subject:P
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[line]
Yep that's the jist of what I saw on the antidate forum. Maybe it's the 'anti' that is upsetting everyone needlessly...
[line]
BC... i have exchange some PM these week with some of the russian woman on these forum... and now, i know a little of the history of antidate...
In the very beginning , it was almost only a black list of man... but with time, it is become a forum like here at RWD with a lot of topic ...
Now, some member of antidate agree that the "anti" is to much... but change of domain name is not a easy step... some thing about this actually...
In all case, the name don't show the real content... i have not read a lot to now but it is not always the negative side... certainly in the newer post...
[line]
please, give me some example when Moscow girl 20 y.o. is dating with Moscow old man 70 y.o.
[line]
Kvinna, i have no example but it is very possible... like young AW date very old rich AM... by example, usually, old chief of mafia have always young woman :cool:... this exist in each country... in reality, the woman use the old man for a better situation... he have money, he is the chief of factory, ...
If i was 70 year old, i am sure that i have no chance to find a 20 year old woman... same in russia... because i am not rich, i have not own house, i have no car, ... i have nothing to give except a old body... :? it why i have search a wife now, for not be alone when i will be old, and for have children... a other of my dream...
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[line]
Yep that's the jist of what I saw on the antidate forum. Maybe it's the 'anti' that is upsetting everyone needlessly...
[line]
BC... i have exchange some PM these week with some of the russian woman on these forum... and now, i know a little of the history of antidate...
In the very beginning , it was almost only a black list of man... but with time, it is become a forum like here at RWD with a lot of topic ...
Now, some member of antidate agree that the "anti" is to much... but change of domain name is not a easy step... some thing about this actually...
In all case, the name don't show the real content... i have not read a lot to now but it is not always the negative side... certainly in the newer post...
hm... and where you find this information? Antidate was made as a forum for women from FSU about hazards and risks of online dating, it was and it is still and it will be so
and yes we have black list and this is very useful for our women, we suppose the men who are involved online dating process (not only westerners but from FSU as well) have to be sure that our women are not "orphans" and they can find the help and protection against some jerks, that is what antidate is supposed to do
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[line]
hm... and where you find this information?
[line]
Sorry, Nato confidential ... only for army eyes...:D
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please, give me some example when Moscow girl 20 y.o. is dating with Moscow old man 70 y.o.
Metro station "Kitay-gorod" , an exist to the hotel "Rossia" (the very right entrance hall):D After 9PM you can find a row of 20 y.o girls who migrated there from Tverskay:D:D.
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Good address Elena,
But if you wish really fun, try the "Metro" in St. Peterburg
Ligovskiy pr., 174 , M. Ligovsky Prospect, 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
Metro has stood the test of time, a rarity in the Russian nightclub business. Mega-sized club spanning three floors, each practically a club within a club. Cheap drinks and reasonable over though seemingly higher every time I visit. The first two floors fill up with the younger crowd, but the third floor is a little older. Warning: Don't go to Metro if you are offended by 18 - 21 year old girls wearing close to nothing and having a great time. The tennis match factor here is a 10 on a 10 point scale. Chewing gum is not allowed. I'm serious. You will be asked if you have drinks, weapons, or gum as you enter the club. After you reply no, the will search you. If they find gum, they will confiscate it and scowl at you. Don't try hiding it in your underwear, they will find it.
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Pfew! What for should I go to Piter? I have an endless amount of night clubs here in Moscow:D:D
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Elen,
the "metro" is not for you but for the old man who like young ladies... ;)
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Well then let they go better to Piter as I doubt they have enough money for "fun' in Moscow night clubs with 20 y.ol. moscow girls:P
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Well then let they go better to Piter as I doubt they have enough money for "fun' in Moscow night clubs with 20 y.ol. moscow girls:P
yes, but they could have fun with girls from Ukraina and Moldova... on Leningradka
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:D (i've told them THAt too)
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:D (i've told them THAt too)
by the way, guys, why not to go to the site prostitutki.ru and not to order there hot young MOB
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Kvinna,
Antidate was made as a forum for women from FSU about hazards and risks of online dating, it was and it is still and it will be so
and yes we have black list and this is very useful for our women, we suppose the men who are involved online dating process (not only westerners but from FSU as well) have to be sure that our women are not "orphans" and they can find the help and protection against some jerks, that is what antidate is supposed to do
All good goals IMHO.
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by the way, guys,why not to goto the siteprostitutki.ru and not to order there hot young MOB
Hey! I noticed something at that site. 79 % of all ladies listed claim they are from **RUSSIA! Only 11 % say they are from UKRAINE!
Elen, what is going on - are the demographics of prostitutes in Russia changing?!? :D
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Nope just all Ukraine girls are staing at Leningradka in Moscow :P (for keeping such "business" through Internet you should at least have a comp wich is some difficult for Ukraine citizens:P)
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Nope just all Ukraine girls are staing at Leningradka in Moscow :P(forkeeping such "business" through Internet you should at least have a comp wich is some difficult for Ukraine citizens:P)
OK - I see now. It is a 'class' issue. Ukrainian prostitutes in Russia are of the 'streetwalker' class - and the Russian prostitutes in Russian are the 'call-girl' type. Do I have it correct now? :cool:
Why did I know that was what you were going to say??? ;)
- Dan
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Kvinna, I think most of us here are in agreement with many of your same thoughts and feelings. On occasion we hear about old men who only seek and want young girls. Like with you and many of your Russian lady friends, this does not leave a good taste with a lot of us.
It does happen Kvinna, the world is full of all kinds of people, good and bad. From my observation you and some of your girlfriends want to label, or consider, most foreign men involved in the pursuit for a foreign bride as bad. I think this is what is bothering a lot of the guys here.
Jack:
I would like you to clarify the above two statements. Are you saying that an old man looking for a young girl is a bad guy? I know that Elen and Kvinna have a problem with large age difference. Are you saying the same?
Also, and please guys this is just for clarification, most, not "on ocassion" as stated by Jack, of the guys on this list are looking for girls at least 20 years younger than them. At what age gap is it that a foreign man becomes "bad?" 25, 30 year difference? One already posted asking for advice on "liberal" states that would "tolerate" a 20-something years age gap. Actually, it should be a very conservative bible-belt state that would see no problems with it, as long as you go to church and give "generously."
Finally you state: Just as you make reference to, and you are correct, in that we do not know you, how can we judge you? We want to say the same to you. You do not know us, how can you judge each of us? It is not Elen and Kvinna that will judge you, but your community and coworkers that will do the talking and assumptions. My question to those who are contemplating this, is your skin that thick? Do you have the patience, stamina, and understanding to "educate" these people? Are you a 100% sure that those father-daughter looking marriages will survive the constant ribbing, especially your young bride? Don't be surprised to hear the comments "as soon as she gets her green card, you're history" type from the "well-intentioned friends" trying to help. An old saying goes by: a constant drop of water will make a hole in a rock. Or worse, some of the so-called friends making a pass (or trying to grab) at your young bride just because if she is that young and married this old coot, it only means that she is after his money so she is fair game. I've seen this.
Just a word of caution.
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A few comments on the subject of large age differences. (and not the ethniticity of prostitutes in Moscow):
My Mother in law is 3 years older than me and my Father in law is 5 years older. I was easily accepted into the family without hesitation. We have become very close since too. Just so no one doubts the motivation of that acceptance, my in laws have never asked for a dime. They live a rather comfortable life and have a decent income for Russia.
Someone posted a question asking how an AM would react if his daughter was being wooed by an older man. My situation is that I do have a daughter about my wife's age. I have suggested to her that she might be happier with an older man than with the guys's close to her age. I do not recommend that anyone push the age gap as far as I did (25 years) because it is a difficult obstical to overcome for various reasons. In order for it to be succussful, the two people involved need to be unusually unique in many ways. It has worked and is working for us as we close in on our 6th aniversary.
KenC
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My situation is that I do have a daughter about my wife's age. I have suggested to her that she might be happier with an older man than with the guys's close to her age
If "older" means something "about 20 years" then I wonder that you still alive but not killed by your former wife for such "suggestions" to your own daughter[/font]
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For all it is worth, since I have been married to my wife many young single women (21 to 27) have come out of the woodwork in her small city bombarding my wife's mother with photos and contact information for themselves after my wife told her mother that I have three good friends who she has met and interacted with who are quality guys, two 44 year olds and one 49, that are single and may be interested in going to Russia to find a wife. In fact, the requests have come in so fast and furiously that my wife can not handle the pressure of rejection for many of them and has told her family to stop sending them. One girl, a 27 year old beautiful neurologist without children has a great chance with any guy - in fact, all my friends are interested in this one girl, and she has no problem with any of them. The key point is that many Russian girls in her particular city of Tver just do not have enough men in their city and see themselves as having no chance of ever getting married. Many have been married and are now divorced after marrying a Russian man in his 20's who was too immature to handle marriage, much less a family. The choice for many eligible, especially well educated single girls in their 20's in Tver, is to be one of the quality guys in town girlfriend, who also happens to be married with children and in his 40's or 50's or to stay single. That is what is driving girls to seek stable Western men in that particular city. Many of the girls view a 15 to 25 year age difference as necessary for stability. Many of the women in their 20's through past horrible experience know that a man within 10 years certainly of their age almost always is too immature and unstable for them to seek marriage with. Elen, what is your advice for young, especially well educated Russian women in their 20's who can not find a Russian man to their liking even if they consider Russian men from 20 to 60 (in many cases these girls can not find a Russian man at all to like them)???
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Elen, what is your advice for young, especially well educated Russian women in their 20's who can not find a Russian man to their liking even if they consider Russian men from 20 to 60 (in many cases these girls can not find a Russian man at all to like them)???
Nothing advices from me in such situation:? I don't know I didn't face such problem in my own 20s as I studied in technical University and had a lot of attention from immature boys:D (but at least it was really "fun" but not an act of hopeless )
So my only advice for these girls would be something like that: let's calculate your "powers" right and accurate because to be married whom your are not in love with is much more "bad" fate than to be alone.
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Elen, what is your advice for young, especially well educated Russian women in their 20's who can not find a Russian man to their liking even if they consider Russian men from 20 to 60 (in many cases these girls can not find a Russian man at all to like them)???
Nothing advices from me in such situation:? I don't know I didn't face such problem in my own 20s as I studied in technical University and had a lot of attention from immature boys:D (but at least it was really "fun" but not an act of hopeless )
So my only advice for these girls would be something like that: let's calculate your "powers" right and accurate because to be married whom your are not in love with is much more "bad" fate than to be alone.
[/quote]
I would suggest these girl to think why those men who follows younger women cannot deal with women their ages?
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by the way, guys, why not to go to the site prostitutki.ru and not to order there hot young MOB
Hey! I noticed something at that site. 79 % of all ladies listed claim they are from **RUSSIA! Only 11 % say they are from UKRAINE!
Elen, what is going on - are the demographics of prostitutes in Russia changing?!? :D[/quote]
that is because ukrainian girls not popular among Moscow men...
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Bruce, how can a young russian woman about 20 year old know that she go never find a Russian man... usually, at these age, she is always at school... she is only at the very beginning of his adult life...
If can understandt a RW around 30 year old who marry a foreign man, same a old one... it is his choice and she have use some year for search a local man...
I think that a young woman from 20 year have no problem for date man in russia... if she search a foreign man, it is more for go outside russia... for find a confort life without need make a lot...
And i can say that the actual RW around 20 year old are not so much mature that the 20 y.o. RW from ten year ago... they are almost like our young western woman... i don't see a lot of difference between a 20 y.o. from Europa and Russia... i find difference in woman from around 30 y.o...
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Kvinna[/user] wrote:
that is because ukrainian girls not popular among Moscow men...
Kvinna,
You need to check with Elen then - because according to Elen, Russian men like Ukrainian women VERY much. In fact, Russian men like Ukrainian women SOOOOOO much, that there are almost no Russian women who work as prostitutes in Russia - it is all Ukrainian women.
Do you disagree with Elen?
- Dan
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I have not said Ukraine gilrs standing at Leninrgadka's were popular among russian men. There are a LOT of desperated Caucasians here as well. They match each others:P
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Bruno - I still believe there are alot of the more "traditional families," in Russia, especially when you get out of the large cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg. Within the smaller cities and towns there has and I believe continues to be a large amount of family as well as self expectation on the part of young women that they become married, definitely by age 25, of course to a Russian man. A percentage of girls that have been married prior to age 25 are divorced with or without children. Because of their divorce and experience coping with their new found reality of marriage that had lead to divorce I surmise a minority of these women become fed up with their local men and entertain the thought of a foreigner. Others just do not have the number of suitors they once had and look for foreigners as well as locals. The majority of girls seriously considering foreigners as well as locals increases as the women age. I believe the percentage of girls seriously looking for foreigners around age 20 is virtually none, but it increases each year a girl remains single and as the girl approaches 25 I believe the numbers would significantly increase. Now, how high the numbers of girls seriously looking for foreigners is, I believe to be relatively low. However, the singles game is a numbers game and there just are more single girls looking for foreigners than foreigners looking for single girls, especially when one looks at the numbers of girls with children and the numbers of guys looking for a girl with a child or children. It all comes down to demographics. Once you get out of the larger cities the numbers of local men the average Russian woman considers to be good men (works and holds a decent job that can provide for a family, non-alcoholic, reasonably educated etc.) is much lower than the quality of the women. Thats why foreigners can find a girl as nice, as educated as well as younger and prettier in the FSU than we could find in our own back yard - which brings those who are able to the FSU in the first place. Now, what I believe in no way says anything bad about Russian men at all. I have great respect for Russian men and believe there are a tremendous amount of good men in Russia. One of my best friends in the world is a Russian man. Still, it all comes down to numbers and I firmly believe that at the margins, the numbers are in the guys favor, even the foreign guy.
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Hummm, that site must be the Russian Version of Home Shoppng Network
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Bruce, in 2004, the middle age for first marriage in Russia was 25.2 year old... i think that woman from 25 of up are more serious canditat for foreign marriage that these below...
Now, about little city, you have right... but usually, several woman on the internet are from big city... some of little city, and almost none from village...
Woman in the center of siberia are interesting but who go make a trip to so place... not a lost of western man !!!
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Bruno - I am a guy that just does not trust the internet. I tried the letter writing routine. For me it was a huge waste of time, energy and resources. What worked best for me was to just find what I believed after talking with guys on sites like this were quality agencies in a city with alot of single women called Tver. I wrote a general letter to any girl that attracted me on their website two months or so before I was planning to go over and that was it. I flew over and even though lo and behold half of the girls I sent my introduction letter to were gone, I still had the other half of the girls I did write my letter to plus alot of other new girls to choose from. The key was I knew that Tver has alot of single women, way more single women than men in my target age range. Now, Tver may be an aberation, but I suspect it is more like other smaller cities in Russia with enough of a margin of women in their twenties to satisfy alot of the foreigners looking for the wife of their dreams.
As far as the statistic you quoted of 25.2 mean marriage age I do not know where you got it but I will not dispute it. I will however suggest that it includes the larger city girls which tend to marry later, in part due to in general higher levels of education. I am not so sure if your statistic was just first time marriages or all mariages. If it is all marriages by definition that would tend to skew the median age upward.
I definitely agree that most Western men do not have the fortitude to trek to Siberia (much less Kyrgistan) in pursuit of a wife.
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I definitely agree that most Western men do not have the fortitude to trek to Siberia (much less Kyrgistan) in pursuit of a wife.
Why so? Is it about a price for tickets or do some extra hours in a plane so mean for you?
And actually Siberia is more close to America:?
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I have been to three different parts of siberia on various trips and had to go through Moscow all three times. Personally I think if someone thinks his special lady is somewhere he is going to go even if he has to go by dog sled so I don't think a few hours on a plane are going to matter a lot.
I think Bruce has a good idea in concentrating on Tver. I do think there are lots of people who go to Moscow, Kiev and St Petersburg and the gals in the other cities don't get nearly the attention.
I also think Bruce made a good point when he said about something working for "him" We are all different and there are a lot of different approaches to meeting Russian gals. What might be perfect for him might not work at all for me and vice versa. I think anyone out to meet ladies is better experimenting to see what works best for the way he is and how he needs to function.
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Bruce, it was not easy for find again the source of information... i read so much each day and i don't store all the links...
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/359/11290_marriage.html (http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/359/11290_marriage.html)
"Specialists from the Centre of Demography and Ecology of Man claim that, compared to 1993, the average age for men to get married has grown by 1.6 years, to 27.8 years of age (for first marriages by 1.4 years, to 25.5). For women, this indicator has increased by 1.4 years, to 25.3 years of age (for first marriages by 1.1 years, to 22.8 years of age). Experts explain that, when getting married for the first time, women prefer to choose husbands with a stable economic status. Obviously, they do not like the change of family roles that were so typical of the 1990s, when women, who find it easier to adapt to new economic realities, often became the main breadwinners."
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Bruno - excellent article. Turboguy - it worked for me because I married a girl from Tver. Elen - long distance, much less International relationships, are extremely stressful and difficult for both the girl and the guy. In this case there is also cultural differences that come into play. However, if the guy is really interested in the girl he will do as Turboguy suggested and travel to her even if he needs a dogsled to get there. However, when he first starts thinking about going to the girl, and he looks at the map and finds out where Kyrgistan is I suspect he will think long and hard before going ie. backup plans are more difficult, there is a good chance he would have to go WOVO etc. So, he will be even surer when he goes to Kyrgistan that the girl is right than he would if he knew he was going to a relatively great tourist destination like Moscow, St. Petersburg or Kiev.
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Yes, I know what you mean. I would get letters from gals and look to see where they were and use that to decide how interested I was. I never got too excited over ones from Vladivistock or the Lake Bikal area. As I said before, if you have found the right one you will go anywhere. I can recall in my still dating American gals stage when one gal from 40 miles away said I was too far. Hah.
I have fond feelings for Tver. I would not be here if it were not for one gal origionally from there. It never went anywhere, but I had given up on Russian gals cause I was tired of getting scammed and mostly the disapointment when you thought your life was going somewhere and then found out only your money was.
That was an interesting article Bruno. Very.
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"Why so? Is it about a price for tickets or do some extra hours in a plane so mean for you?"
In America, we live in an instant gratification society. We don't want to wait to get what we want. We want maximum return for the least amount of money. Very few American men would want to put the effort in to finding someone in another country. It takes too long. Then we weigh the cost. It costs money to have a long distance relationship. That's where the maximum return for the least amount of money comes in. Most AM would stop right there. Next there is the stigma at least with men over 30 from their peers. You tell someone you met a woman from another country, and a lot of responses would be either "You can't find one here in the US?" or "Is she a mail order bride?" They say that to you because they want to feel superior to you or to make you feel like half a man. Typical macho response. Now the most of ones that continue their long distance relationship after all of this, are the ones who don't care what others think. They have thicker skins and are the ones who are most self sufficient. In other words, they don't need to run with a pack of men to feel like they fit in or to be accepted.
Of course there are some men who search for foreign women because of lonliness, have low self esteem, or just want to be able to "own" a woman. I think these men make up a small percentage of those who have pursued long distance relationships, but are the ones that many people focus on.
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Well, I'm one American can headed to Omsk in late April, or at least I'm trying. Biggest headache write now is the invitation letter and visa registry. Both are trivial if I want to stay in a hotel overnight, and a bitch if I want to stay with a friend. Want a personal invitation - it cost $35 and takes 4-6 weeks to process by the Russian Government. Once you receive it, you can apply for a visa (typically another two weeks, although expedition fees could be applied). So... I can either postpone my trip by a month and a half, or lose a day in Moscow, turning an 11 hour layover into a 35 hour one.
Only possible shortcut I can think of is to pay the $200/night to stay at the Moscow airport hotel, check in at 2pm, sleep 6-8 hours, and check out at 10pm - with my visa registered. Don't know if that is legal though (which is the question I have pending to the visa lady at the agency I'm using).
Kevin
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Bruce, Turbo... yes, the full article is more interesting that only the part copy on the forum... it show the evolution of love relation in russia...
People don't marry so much, divorce rate grow, marry more late, make lower quantity of child... i don't give 10 year for they reach our own level... and i think that it will be the end for us... russian copy of our western woman :(
And about woman from rural place, a lot of thing change... they go to big city... and a lot of them are between 20 and 30 year old...
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3955/is_n5_v47/ai_18255219 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3955/is_n5_v47/ai_18255219)
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Good luck on your trip Goombah. I have been to Omsk. It is a nice place. Too bad we are not closer. I have a very large book filled with all kinds of photos from Omsk. It is a pretty nice book and a gift from the lady I visited there a long time ago. I am sure you would find it interesting.
You should be able to go to a hotel in Omsk and get your passport registered for a small fee. I stayed with my friend when I was there but had been in a hotel in Moscow on the way so it was not a problem.
The invitation sounds like a pain. I just use an agency that takes care of the whole thing. Might cost me a bit more but I can fill out my ap online and have a visa as quick as I need it. (www.russia-visa.com (http://www.russia-visa.com)) Mine just arrived Yesterday for my next trip to N. Novgorod which is only 12 days away. I get to spend 7 of those 12 days in Vegas so I may be broke when I go.
Yes Bruno, I agree with you. I am not even sure this will last 10 years. I started traveling to Russia in 1996 and to the FSU in 94. Things have changed at a high speed.
My first trip to Russia everyone had little maybe 13" black and white TV's with 3 channels. They had no real ad's then, only informercials. My next trip they had 19" color sets. My next trip they had big screens with vcrs and now they have 40 channels and sets as nice as ours.
When you bought something when I first went. Lets say you wanted a can of coke. You walked up to the kiosk and said you wanted a coke. They told you the price, you paid for it and then they got you the coke. The same system worked in the stores. They were afraid to give you the product first for fear you would run off with it. Now they give you the product and you pay them.
The economic reasons to leave will soon vanish. We will be left with those who think all us crazy us and europeans might be better husbands. Heck they go here or antidate and they might not even want to believe that.
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Thanks TurboGuy - their prices are a little high, but $10 or $20, but not unreasonable. I dropped them a note to see if they could help.
Kevin
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The economic reasons to leave will soon vanish.
As for economic factor then don't worry:?:? There are no "Lihts" at that horizon, because econmic is not estimated by what you can buy in kiosk. The changes wich you don't like in russians are caused by hammered in our heads the idea that money is everything in this life during the last 15 years. (but not love, family and kids)
So soon you willl enjoy with fruits of Westenisation in FSU
(as for 3 programms on TV then there was a nouther face of coin - we read a tons of books. Why do you think we such edicated?:D:D:D)
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Elen, I would like to see the economy doing well there even if it does affect the ability of all us guys to find good women easily. Russia has a lot of very well educated, intelligent, hard working people who are making a fraction of what they should be making. I think that is sad.
I think a lot of Russian people there think the changes in the economy are not much. When you live in an envoronment every day, you don't see the changes. Until the last year I have been coming to Russia about every two years and I see big changes every time. The past year I have been making a trip almost ever few months. (11 days till I come back to Russia next) I don't see the changes at that rate. It is always the same. Russia is changing.
I too fear Russia will get westernized. That will be sad. I don't think it will be soon enough to affect me, but I see it coming.
I agree with you about TV. We were even discussing that at work today. TV has it's good side but I think it has a very bad side too. I am just not sure which is the stronger force.
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I think a lot of Russian people there think the changes in the economy are not much. When you live in an envoronment every day, you don't see the changes. Until the last year I have been coming to Russia about every two years and I see big changes every time. The past year I have been making a trip almost ever few months. (11 days till I come back to Russia next) I don't see the changes at that rate. It is always the same. Russia is changing.
You see only the fasade. Yes we can buy coke in each kisosk now, yes we have DVD players and all other "spangles" (though not all of us, far not all) but we can't give free of pay edication for our kids, can't pay for our health treatment,we have to work at two or more jobs to feed our familiers instead of paynig more attention to our children.
So don't be surprised with the results Soon you will be able to find here only girls who didn't see their mom home at all cos they had to work 24 hours in a day, girls who read nothing and only saw stupid TV shows a-la the Western's ones and who can think only about money.
Let's enjoy now with residuary results of totalitarian socialism till you have time :D:D
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I too fear Russia will get westernized. That will be sad. I don't think it will be soon enough to affect me, but I see it coming.
I dare aks you: why do you fear so much Russia will get westernized?
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I dare aks you: why do you fear so much Russia will get westernized?
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Because we love russia... the country, not only the women... i like the character of people, they are not so much individualist, friendship are more strong, nature is beautiful, ...
Yes, my ex-wife have love our big shop, our confort of life... but she was shocked by our western spirit...
by example, i have know a hearth attack in Belgium and i have stay on the ground around 30 minutes before somebody make something... it was the driver of a bus who have call help because i have blocked the way of bus... and customer have insult me... i cannot imagine so in Russia...
We speak about criminality in Russia but the level of Moscow don't reach these of New York... In russia, woman can always walk the evening in street without too much fear to be attack, children can go to school without be controled in case they have pistol, children park are not the meeting point of drugs dealer...
We fear about the bad side of the western country, not about the good side... if you can reach a better confort of life, it is no a problem for us... but be aware that the western freedom and confort have not only good side...
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Well I can't find that post but I do remeber another version of answer to that question. There was something about crazy feminist who suffers about climax in her 35, has dilapidated body and her own teenagers and hates all males .... and so far :? Such fine description of females (like me for example:D)
Ps
I forgot to say the main point- Westenezed 20 years old girls don't look at 40-50-60-70-.... boys:D
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Elen, a large percentage of Western girls these days have no need for men at all. They have their own careers, own friends, live their life according to the feminist doctrine, get weirder and weirder every day and wake up one day around age 35 and wonder why no man wants them, why they never got married, why they did not have a family - their puppies and kitties no longer satisfy them, Now they want a baby. So, they go to a Dr. and get Joe Homo's sperm artificially inseminated into them. Then they have their little baby boy.........................born into the world of the modern metropolitan society. Is this really good for the future of the West................Not to me.
One other point, all of us absolutely over all love Russia and yes, the benefits of your modern post-Communist society (remember the USA definition of Communist and Russian definition of what Communism really means just does not get conveyed). Most of usl worry about the changes your society is going through and hope it will eventually end up with the best blend of the old Soviet values and the fruits of a better economic system for the average citizen of your country.
Now, getting back to the point, if Russian societies women continues to drift towards modern feminazi doctrine then there will definitely be virtually no women at the margins for Westerners to desire.
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Now, getting back to the point, if Russian societies women continues to drift towards modern feminazi doctrine then there will definitely be virtually no women at the margins for Westerners to desire.
Poor Western males! What an awful future waits for you:D:D
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remember the USA definition of Communist and Russian definition of what Communism really means just does not get conveyed
I do remeber that Americans think they know Communism better than we who lived under it
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Language is a huge problems for people. Foreign languages just are extremely difficult for Americans. That is one great deficiency in our Educational system.
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When I said that about the gals becoming westernized I meant pretty much what everyone took it as. On one hand I feel bad that although the economy has progressed a lot while I have been coming to Russia, it is still terrible and the people deserve to have better pay and a better economy and I hope that comes.
Yes, when it does come the 20 year old gals are not going to find the 40-70 year old guys as desirable. The shopping will be tougher. It might end. You don't find Paris and Rome to be full of agencies helping 50 year old American men to meet 20 year old French and Italian ladies. Sure, anywhere there are people looking for a change in their life. There will be some ladies who want that but not the numbers now where there seem to be two major motivations. A better life financially and a good husband who will treat them like they are important.
I think when it does change the South American and Philippine ladies will be the ones the American men are left with. There are lots of 20 year olds there that are happy with an older guy and there will always be older guys who want a young wife.
I am glad to know Americans find learning a foreign language hard. I thought it was just me. You have made me feel better Bruce. It is nice to know you are not alone.
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the economy has progressed a lot while I have been coming to Russia
Ah! I love American optimistic view on life in Russia (regardless of all statistic reports) very much:D:D:D
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Ok, I give up! I am old enough to know you can never win an an argument or lets say a discussion with a woman.
OK, life in Russia is terrible and has not improved a lick. The poor Russian people are going to spend eternity in poverty and the situation is hopeless. The changes I have seen must be a mirage.
I am just joking with you Elen. I really believe the economy there has a long way to go to get where it needs to be. I have seen changes, but not what it needs.
The bad part is that I think some of the former members of the USSR are going to leave Russia in the Dust economically. I think it is happening now in some places like the Czech republic. I think you will see Ukraine moving ahead faster than people thought. Right now Ukraine is sort of Russia's poorer brother. I think before long that sitaution will be reversed. I am saying this because I see other places such as Ukraine moving forward on freedom and their economy and Russia doing the reverse, working it's way back to less freedom and could well turn back into a dictatorship. I hope this situation changes. I see some good signs lately such as the resistance to taking away some of the benefits for the pensioneers.
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I am saying this because I see other places such as Ukraine moving forward on freedom and their economy
Would not mind to enlight me in what spheres is Ukraine economy moving forward?
and Russia doing the reverse, working it's way back to less freedom and could well turn back into a dictatorship.
prove me we had worse economy under dictatorship than we have under democracy, ple-e-ease:D
I hope this situation changes. I see some good signs lately such as the resistance to taking away some of the benefits for the pensioneers.
Actually pensioneers fight for what they had under dictatorship - a decent life at pension:P
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As far as Ukraine moving forward, have you been to Kiev lately? There is construction everywhere. It is a happening place. Politically with the Orange revolution the people stood up for what they believed in and won. The policys they are talking about and installing will bring in progress, captial and growth. I was there during the Orange revolution and it was amazing to see.
In Russia I see a strong move the other way. On the excuse of fighting terroismy they now appoint the governors or district leaders. (What in the world does that do for terrorism one way or the other) I made a post somewhere. It might have been one of my first posts here or on another site I found before this one that Russia was slowly taking away peoples freedom and once they take away enough freedom they can take away anything else they want. I think what you are seeing with the pensioneers is a good example of that.
You did not have it good under a dictatorship, you just didn't have to worry about anything. That is not good, that is just reliable. You had three tv channels and little black and white sets, cars that few had and those that did would break down often, lines to get simple things. How about the other parts of dictatorships, all the millions and millions of people who died because they disagreed or even because they were good people which scared the people in charge.
One one of my early trips to Russia, I brought home a small piece of toilet paper from my hotel in Perm. I showed it to people in the USA and asked them what they thought it was. No one ever guess toilet paper. Wall paper was the most common guess.
Please don't take this as any negative feelings towards Russia, it's government or it's people. I love it there. I think Putin has done some great things. I just think for Russia to be all it can be it needs to keep moving towards a democracy and a free enterprise system. I think there has been movement backwards. Putin says the will not backslide. I hope that is right. Russia can not backslide and succeed. I think the Russian people are the most hospitable anywhere.
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As far as Ukraine moving forward, have you been to Kiev lately? There is construction everywhere. It is a happening place.
Pfew! You say SUCH argument to MOSKOVITE:D
Moscow to your inform is at the second place in the world with amount of $$ milliarders leaved here, but it means nothing to other country outside Moscow circle road
I was there during the Orange revolution and it was amazing to see. In Russia I see a strong move the other way.
Of course!!:X And it your fault America!! Why do you pay such little money to our democrats??? Or you drained you limits for all others "rose-orange-red...." revolutions in our former republics???
If seriously I don't trust revolutions bought on alient money
You did not have it good under a dictatorship, you just didn't have to worry about anything. That is not good, that is just reliable
May be you do allow us to deside what's good for us by ourselves?
How about the other parts of dictatorships, all the millions and millions of people who died because they disagreed or even because they were good people which scared the people in charge.
That's called fight of classes and should be discuss with taking into account ALL events from those times
One one of my early trips to Russia, I brought home a small piece of toilet paper from my hotel in Perm. I showed it to people in the USA and asked them what they thought it was. No one ever guess toilet paper. Wall paper was the most common guess.
Well welcome to Russia now and enjoy with perfect toilet paper from your hotel And please don't pay too many attention to homeless kids at streets or to child-prostitutes at rail-station, coz it's such liitle price for good toilet paper than should not be metion at all:(
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I agree the homeless kids are not a good situation. That is even a bigger problem in Brazil and we have them here too. It is sad.
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I am not quite sure I understand this Elen, Are you saying the are the second largest number of millionares in the world living in Mocow? If so that is not correct and even if it was it would not be something to brag about. Most Russian millionares make it illegally one way or the other.
37 $$ milliardres live in Moscow and about 43 (?) in New York. And I'm not "braging" at allI only try to show you how wrong your conclusion about Ukraine economy made on what you have seen in Kiev.
If a little money could affect a revoltion we would not be loosing all our brave boys in Iraq.
It means only you can't buy everybody with your money (only Ukraines -Georgians - Moldovans)
Wonderful Idea Elen. I will be in Moscow in two weeks with my child bride to be. I will bring you a 13" black and white tv with all but three channels disabled and a box of soviet era clothes. You throw your existing tv and your clothes in the trash and tell me in a month which was better. See I am happy to let you decide you ourseves.
Wonder when you in America had only white-black TV sets did you also feel yourselves"without freedom"?
And btw if you would be able to return me mysafety I have in soviet times, fre of pay edication-housing-health care and decent pensions I promice to throw out my new DVD player:D
Sure Elen, Tell that to the 16 million that starved to death in Ukraine all the while the food was sitting in warehouses nearby.
Want a discussion about starvation in 1935-36?? Then let go and find proved numbers of victims, refresh you knowleges about collectivisation and how thing were in argaian section in Russia before and after collectivisation and find an answer why Ukraines had not manage to pick up enough harvest that year to pay agrarian obligation to Stalin in the most rich-land region if there was not such bad climate disaster that year.
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Elen, I am still not sure what you are saying "37 $$ milliardres live in Moscow and about 43 (?) in New York." What is a $$ milliadres. I am guessing you either mean millionares or multimillionares.
Forbes magazine does a list of the 500 wealthiest people in the world each year. I have not looked at it for about two years. The last I looked there were about 175 from the USA and 3 from Russia. One of which I think was killed and/or had his oil company nationalized so he probably is no longer on it, particualarly if he is dead and if he is dead and is still on it, he is probably not enjoying his money much.
43 Millionares for New York would not be right. I am sure there offices in New York with that many millionares. I need to understand more of what you are saying to comment.
As far as what you are saying about the starvation in Ukraine, remember in your glorious soviet days you were fed a lot of propoganda. The weather was fine. Stalin starved all those people to death because they would not give up thier farmlands and go along with colectivization. It was cold blooded murder and in a crual way. Saying what you are saying is the equivilent of trying to say the holicost never existed or Russia never had any soldiers killed in WWII. Yes there were positives to the communist era but there were a lot of bad things that happened too.
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milliard=billion Yes I meant multi-milliarders which fortune is more than billion dollars.
And my piont was you can't speak abput economy in country lokking at how thing are in it's capital.
43 Millionares for New York would not be right. I am sure there offices in New York with that many millionares. I need to understand more of what you are saying to comment.
I meant those people have permanent place of residence in that city. We have 37 of them in Moscow.
As far as what you are saying about the starvation in Ukraine, remember in your glorious soviet days you were fed a lot of propoganda
As you when your reporters used photos from starvation in 20s in Povolg'e to show you how things were in 35s at Ukraine and who wrote his reportages not even visited Ukraine. Want me to find the article about that written by Canadian but not by Soviet "propagandist"?
The weather was fine. Stalin starved all those people to death because they would not give up thier farmlands and go along with colectivization.
Would not give up their farmlands?? Yes certainly they would not. That was the problem.
Do you know that about 80% of so called farmlands which run agrarian business in 20 centure using only a plow could feed only themselves ? Or do you aware that because of such efficacy starvations happened in Russia with a periodicity of 10-12 years?( without any Stalin)
Want to discuss where all others people of Soviet Union would be if collectivization was not be done in short period of 10 years we had before the WWII?? For us it was a matter of national survival during the war. The price was about 3 millions deathes of those who resisted that.
It was cold blooded murder and in a crual way. Saying what you are saying is the equivilent of trying to say the holicost never existed or Russia never had any soldiers killed in WWII.
I'm NOT saying it has not not exist. I say if you want to discuss that isue then let's took into consideration ALL things of those times which followed to awful end result. Then you will see it was not only Stalin.
Yes there were positives to the communist era but there were a lot of bad things that happened too
Yes I do know we did studied that in our perfect soviet schools. But I was born and lived in "good" communist times:D
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Elen you are way off on the millionaire thing. Being a millionaire in the USA is no longer a big deal. Their are 100's & 100's of properties that people own in NYC that are worth well over a million dollars and prices are going up all the time. Recently an apartment sold there for 43 million and the guy paid cash. Their are over 1000 stock brokers on Wall Street that make a million a year.
As for me, I live 6000 miles from NY and prices and pay are high here too. Over 1/2 of the houses sold here went for over a million. Heck there is a housing developement up the street where the houses start at 5 million and some are over 20 million. Heck I'm just a waiter and I own a place thats 450,000.
I wonder have you ever been to the USA Elen? Because a lot of us have been to Russia and Ukraine and we do have the prospective of seeing both.
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Elen you are way off on the millionaire thing
It's not me it's Fobs Let send all claims of yours to them:D
I wonder have you ever been to the USA Elen? Because a lot of us have been to Russia and Ukraine and we do have the prospective of seeing both.
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I 'm speaking about life in Russia and for THAT I have no need to see how things are in America:P. I do take on trust you live in paradise :D
As for you beeng in FSU then I repeat- you see only the fasade. (If you don't want to bother yourself to read back what I'm discussing jusy NOW then I remind you it was a statement that economy in Ukraine was going good because there were some good things somebody have seen in Kiev)
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This is a question (age diference) I will never understand. What about value differences?
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This is a question (age diference) I will never understand. What about value differences?
Coulter, how about starting a new topic to explore this issue? I think it could be VERY illuminating to many.
- Dan
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by example, i have know a hearth attack in Belgium and i have stay on the ground around 30 minutes before somebody make something... it was the driver of a bus who have call help because i have blocked the way of bus... and customer have insult me... i cannot imagine so in Russia...
Unfortunately you are wrong in that case. The father of one good friend fell in the street because of an heart attack and nobody cared about him thinking he was drunk. He died that day.
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I am not sure what you mean that you won't understand the qustion about age difference. I think you are saying you don't think it is important but I am not sure. Personally I think it is a little overblown here and I think someone out for a younger girl is not going to pay much attention to what the people here think anyway.
Frankly I think if you could not find someone that you perceved as being more desirable than what you can find at home you would not go to all this hastle.
Next point. I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate. I think if I posted that communism was wonderful and the people should have appreciated the great life they had and the freedom from worries, and that Russian people are night a day better than Ukrainians she would be there making points for the opposite. That's ok, it is interesting to hear her views.
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Next point. I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate.
Is that an offence or a compliment?:D
I think if I posted that communism was wonderful and the people should have appreciated the great life they had and the freedom from worries, and that Russian people are night a day better than Ukrainians she would be there making points for the opposite.
You pay too little credit to me, boy. I try to make my opinion basing on what I believe is more close to objective reality but not just about my desire to say something perpendicular to sombodies' viewpoints.
That's ok, it is interesting to hear her views.
Well:? would not mind anybody to enlight me - Is such phrase "That's ok" normal (I mean neutral) style of speaking in English? Because I have an odd feeling somebody graciously taped on my shoulder and indulgently allowed me to go on with my babbling.
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:shock:
sometimes I think here is the only one traditional girl 18-25 y.o. of your dreams in Russia. Her name is Fat Yury and she is waiting for you
you are welcome, old guys, in the World of Traditional Russian Wives
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Kvinia, guys on this thread have given you numerous examples of marriages with men 15 years or older than their brides that have been and are working excellently. Yet, you continue to say it is impossible. All that conveys about you is an inability to WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE (that means an inability to accept reality)!!!
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Bruce,
Forget about trying to convince Kvinia anything. I think she is more interested in being half of a comedy team with Elen. The female version of Laurel & Hardy from Moscow. I do get a kick out of their posts though, as I would any good entertainment. When Turboguy wrote "I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate", my first thought was "Isn't that so typical of a Russian?" LOL
KenC
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Personally I agree with Bruce. I think if it is 10 years or 15 or 25 or whatever it is not going to be a factor in the marriage. I think the marriages between people who are 25 or 30 years different in age that break up would have broken up if the same people had been 5 years apart.
If the divorce rate is higher between RW & AM it is not because of the age difference. It is because people find someone with pretty eyes, a great smile and body that is slender and has curves in the right spot and think they are in love. They don't really stop to think about liking the person inside that body and seeing if they have some compatability in thier values and goals and their lifes tempo.
I did it myself. I went to St Petersburg on an EC tour and met a gal I thought was wonderful. What did I like about her. Well, she had just the look that really drives me crazy. She had a nice figure and the most fantastic legs I ever saw on a women and her french kisses were electrifying. When she stuck that tounge into your mouth it was like she plugged you into an outlet. I think I only got about 6 of those and nothing more for a total investment of about $ 8,000 At that price they should be good. Did I like her as a person. Well, I guess she was ok except that she turned out to be a scammer. I never really felt a bond with her inner person, just her legs and french kisses. Sure there was about 30 years difference. Had we married, would we have stayed married. I doubt it. Would it have been the age difference, no. Too many people fall in lust and not in love.
Let me move on to my current fiancee. What do I like about her. She has a lot of great qualities, she is very warm and giving and considerate. She is also very punctual which is not common over there. She is a good cook. She and I seem like we have the same sense of humor and tempo and we really seem to enjoy being in each others company. We are both very patient and both want to make a change in our lives. She has had some family problems and had put her happiness on a back burner to help with those. She seems to be romantic and caring and has a warmth about her that I like. She has a pleasnt dispositon. Even when things are not perfect she tries to be positive. She seems like she does not have a high self esteem but functions well with that. I would have more trouble personally with someone with a big ego. Yes, she is pretty and has a nice figure. Do I feel like I am in love with her being pretty and having a nice figure. No I feel like I am in love with the inner person. Is there a big age difference, Yes, Do I think if we stay on track and get married that it will work. Yes, I fell 100% that it will.
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Forget about trying to convince Kvinia anything. I think she is more interested in being half of a comedy team with Elen. The female version of Laurel & Hardy from Moscow. I do get a kick out of their posts though, as I would any good entertainment. When Turboguy wrote "I really think Elen likes to play the devil's advocate", my first thought was "Isn't that so typical of a Russian?" LOL
KenC
Are you sure we would not be offended by comparation with those guys?:X You see, we may say "good bye" to all of you and you will entertain each other by yourselves:?:X[/size][/font]
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Elen and Kvinna, I'm not like the typical guy on this board looking or having a wife/fiancee' allot younger than myself. My fiancee' is only five years younger than me. I prefer a closer age. Also, I treat my fiancee' the way I wish to be treated. Please don't knock these men who truly love their wives or fiancee's-even if there is a big difference in age. The ones who are just screwing women on vacation you can rip to shreds as far as I'm concerned. I have no use for those kinds of men.
I have not looked at some of the posts for a few days and have since become a little irritated by the correlations of Russia/Ukraine and the USA. It is apparent you don't know as much as you think:shock:
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It is apparent you don't know as much as you think
I don't like abstract statements about "what I think" without quotations from my posts
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the time chages,,, what do you know about modern russian girls? They are not the same ones you met even 2 years ago, they are different... forget that books by Elena Petrova, seems she is out of reality
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The divorce rate is higher between RW & AM
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Turbo, are you sure of this... in Europe, the couple formed of EU and foreign woman stay more long married...
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I think she is more interested in being half of a comedy team with Elen. The female version of Laurel & Hardy from Moscow.
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It is perfect... Laurel and Hardy have show with humor the lack of the American society... and yes, elen have some humor in his post... for kvinna, it is too much early for judge, not enough post...
And us, who we are... the good pig in "the wolf and the three little pig" of the sex maniac in "Porky's" ...
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No Bruno, I am not sure of it. If you read what I said more carefully I said IF the divorce rate is higher. I have no statistics on it. Personally I think it would be lower. I think there are a lot of factors but when you have a woman who does not know the country and has left her friends and family to go with a man she thinks will be her true love, protector and loving husand, she is going to try hard to make it work. When you have a guy who has found a woman he has dreamed about and has gone though all the tours or letters or trips and visas and all the things that go along with it. He has more motivation to make it work too.
The otherside is people not knowing each other. Perhaps some of the things involved might lure in people with bad motivatons so there are some negatives too but all in all I think the marriages have a great chance of working and I have no statistics that the don't
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Turbo, are you sure of this... in Europe, the couple formed of EU and foreign woman stay more long married...
And us, who we are... the good pig in "the wolf and the three little pig" of the sex maniac in "Porky's" ...
How many will agree with you here, I am wondering out loud...?
It is quite easier for European men and Russian women to make the good choice. Lots of reasons...
Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo...
Again... wondering why...?
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Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo...
Again... wondering why...?
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Maybe for some simple reasons... first, around 50% of people on the Net are American... second, EU use a lot of language... US only english, the international language... at last, the EU are not so rich that American ( it was see russian in hollywood film )... it is only some of parameter... not all
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Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo... Again... wondering why...?
Americans are more naive And they used to think thier mission on the Earth was to save all poor things:D. Aslo many of them used to think money could do anything. So it's easy to fool them with sob stories
And Europians are just GREEDY
IMO (before you start to cry out it's all not true:P)
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Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo...
Again... wondering why...?
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Maybe for some simple reasons... first, around 50% of people on the Net are American... second, EU use a lot of language... US only english, the international language... at last, the EU are not so rich that American ( it was see russian in hollywood film )... it is only some of parameter... not all
Oh yes, there are objective reasons like being far away. Tickets are ore expensive. And it is likely that an US man will not be able to drop in Moscow for the week-end.
But still...
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Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo... Again... wondering why...?
Americans are more naive And they used to think thier mission on the Earth was to save all poor things:D. Aslo many of them used to think money could do anything. So it's easy to fool them with sob stories
And Europians are just GREEDY
IMO (before you start to cry out it's all not true:P)
[/quote]:D:D:D
You are taking the words out of my mouth! I was about to write that they are more gullible, but censured myself... Well, if you are shooting first, I will second you! ;)
:shock: I think that you meant "stingy" for Europeans... Personal experiences? Greedy would describe more exactly the US system based on profit and greed. It is striking how much they discuss money issues.
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Yes "stingy" but in such business as dating women "stingly" always looks like greedy:P
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Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo...
Again... wondering why...?
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Maybe for some simple reasons... first, around 50% of people on the Net are American... second, EU use a lot of language... US only english, the international language... at last, the EU are not so rich that American ( it was see russian in hollywood film )... it is only some of parameter... not all
Oh yes, there are objective reasons like being far away. Tickets are ore expensive. And it is likely that an US man will not be able to drop in Moscow for the week-end.
But still...[/quote]
hm.. I would say the demand for americans here become a thing of the past... the quality level of american dater has decreased very much... now on the market americans in general are known as arrogant game players... also as Internet now is accessible to the majority of the Russian women they can to get the information from such sites as RWA and forum of the russian fiancee... And what we can read there? About new American tradition to send the wife home in year of marriage, concealment of the incomes, and abusive behaviour. All this frightens off the serious russian dater. Besides this we have the demand for the much younger women ... Most of young girl is able to love the shabby old men only for their wallets, it is pretty natural... So your demand gives rise to the quite adequate offer
and please don't tell me about your happy russian wives... let's them tell about their life selves and without your supervision and censorship
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Seems too that scammers are more attracted by US citizens than by EU ones... imo...
Again... wondering why...?
[line]
Maybe for some simple reasons... first, around 50% of people on the Net are American... second, EU use a lot of language... US only english, the international language... at last, the EU are not so rich that American ( it was see russian in hollywood film )... it is only some of parameter... not all
Oh yes, there are objective reasons like being far away. Tickets are ore expensive. And it is likely that an US man will not be able to drop in Moscow for the week-end.
But still...
[/quote]Scammers just see americans much stupid and ready to pay for illusions.
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The 'grapevine' has it that many RW prefer EU destinations, maybe because it is closer and immigration so much easier/quicker.
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Yep, less than 4 hours from Moscow.
Also they can come to see were they will be living
before any comitment or engagement. Six months every year. One student could come 6 days after receiving her passport. Go figure. US citizens can only be dreaming.
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One student could come 6 days after receiving her passport. Go figure. US citizens can only be dreaming.
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And several young woman below 26 year old buy Eurolines ticket in Moscow( near University )... they can travel everywhere in Europa during two month for only 250 euro...
Only problem, Euroline is a bus compagny... i have try it and 3 day in bus from Brussels too Moscow is very long... it is not for me... but i have see that young russian are not afraid of this... you need see them with their camping bag...:D
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hm.. I would say the demand for americans here become a thing of the past... the quality level of american dater has decreased very much... now on the market americans in general are known as arrogant game players... also as Internet now is accessible to the majority of the Russian women they can to get the information from such sites as RWA and forum of the russian fiancee... And what we can read there? About new American tradition to send the wife home in year of marriage, concealment of the incomes, and abusive behaviour. All this frightens off the serious russian dater. Besides this we have the demand for the much younger women ... Most of young girl is able to love the shabby old men only for their wallets, it is pretty natural... So your demand gives rise to the quite adequate offer
and please don't tell me about your happy russian wives... let's them tell about their life selves and without your supervision and censorship
Kvinna,
You have made an interesting observation, but nonetheless it appears to be a hasty generalization.
Why do you think "Americans are known as arrogant game players"?
What facts do you have that will support your assertion that there is a, "new American tradition to send the wife home in year of marriage, concealment of the incomes, and abusive behaviour"?
What do you mean when you said, "we have the demand for the much younger women"?
You also said not to tell you, "about your[American] happy russian wives... let's them tell about their life selves and without your supervision and censorship."
The tone in your statement here appears to be very adversarial. Implicit in your statement is your assumption that all American men who marry Russian women are controlling, abusive and censoring their communications with the outside worlds. Why do you think so? Do you have any evidence to support your statement?
Regards,
Erwin
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Are you sure we would not be offended by comparation with those guys?:X You see, we may say "good bye" to all of you and you will entertain each other by yourselves:?:X[/size][/font]
[/quote]
LoL Elen, you would not more leave this forum than leap to the moon and if you did I for one would NOT miss you, So if you feel insulted PLEASE feel free to leave anytime.
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What Elen and Kvnna do not want to acknowledge is that there are many sucessful AM/RW mariages with an age difference of 15 to 20 years than they care to admit to. For the most part men in the late 30's and early 40's are generally (hopefully) mature enough to understand the wants, needs and desires of their RW. Most of the men in this age group have already had at least one failed marrage and are looking for something different in women from the FSU. Normally (again hopefully) these men will have a bit more disposable income than men in their mid 20's and have a more stable job/income structure. Additionally this group of men should have a better idea of what they want in a woman who will be their best friend, lover and maybe mother to their child.
As I have said before my lady and I have a 19 year age difference and like any relationship we have had our share of ups and downs. Through it all we wanted to make our relationship work, with good communication, mutual respect and a healthy amount of love and understanding our relationship has become so much stronger over these past 5 years.
Could I have found a similar lady closer to my own age? Most likely but why should I compromise when I can have it all. A young, beautiful, sexy, intelligent lady who love me with all of her heart. What else can a man ask for?
As fr as I am concerned our age difference is one of the factors at makes our relationship work.
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Timmy K here-- I am over being nervous, HE HE HA HA, at least better than I was last week..... Age mmmm, OK I am getting ready to meet some one that is compatible in many areas, probably everything, we are even two short people. Me 5' 4" she 4' 11", We are both in construction, we don't care for the night clubs ect., night life, we don't drink, we both love the outdoors, she is happy to sleep in my tent on a stormy night, canoe down the river, go fishing, loves home life { home improvement plans or we might be building our own new house ourselves we both have the skills} gardening, visiting with friends, cinema, eating out ocassionaly, we both want at least one child, do some travelling ,I've never been married she likes this, I have no children she likes this too, we are both just simple type of people and so much more to mention. I have watched and listened to all of you for a while now and I appreciate every thing that every one has written even though some more than others ha ha , and I have learned alot, I hope I can put it all to good use. Age difference for Victoria and I. I just turned 49 she will be 27 in June, I guess I have 25 days to find out starting April 8 in Kiev, she is comming from Karkov on the 7th,a day early to get the apartment ready, she is meeting me at the airport and will have that new sweater she knitted for me and says dinner will be served when I get to the apartment and a hot bath, this is what she said. I bought 3 dictionaries today and I have downloaded some English lessons, she wants me to teach her as much English as possible while I am there. I do not know how this will go because she also wants me to come to Karkov to meet her mother and she wants to do a few other things like seeing the sights and a visit to see her animals and maybe a trip to Crimea.
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What Elen and Kvnna do not want to acknowledge is that there are many sucessful AM/RW mariages with an age difference of 15 to 20 years than they care to admit to[/color][/font][/size]
There are SOME successful (from HUSBANDs' viewpoint) marriages with large difference in ages
BTW BIG BLUE TEXT is not and argument and would not help us to understand your thoughts better
What else can a man ask for?
[/size][/color][/font][/size][/color][/font]
[/size][/color][/font]
May be some brains for understanding a fragility of his "position" n such marriage:P??
I for one would NOT miss you
Yes , for one
My greeting for your young wife. She is really a saint woman to bear you next to her for such long period
[/size][/color][/font]
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Btw I woud not mind to see here at this board an word from those still invisible Russian young wives, written on RUSSIAN:D
Why does nobody of them still said a word in support of their old men?
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Btw I woud not mind to see here at this board an word from those still invisible Russian young wives, written on RUSSIAN:D
Why does nobody of them still said a word in support of their old men?
Elen,
Your input is most welcomed here on this forum, but the truth is that this forum is basicly here to help men (American and otherwise) to find their way through a process of seeking a Russian woman for marriage. I enjoy helping where I can as I can only hope that some men will find the joy and happiness I found in my young Russian wife.
My wife does not feel the need to participate in this or other forums. She has found her happiness and does not feel the need to counsel others. She has read this and other forums and laughs at the redundency of it all. She, like I, do not feel the necessity to prove our happiness to you or anyone else. We both know what we found in each other and cherish it dearly. There is no amount of age difference or cultural difference that can tarnish it either. Again, I can only wish that you and others can find a fraction of what we have found. Best of luck to you and everyone else.
KenC
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Btw I woud not mind to see here at this board an word from those still invisible Russian young wives...
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If i have good read, Fiorella is married with a foreign man... and i am sure that she say what she think without any kind of censorship from his husband... ;)
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What Elen and Kvnna do not want to acknowledge is that there are many sucessful AM/RW mariages with an age difference of 15 to 20 years than they care to admit to.
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Many don't mean a great %... it is need to be realistic, the great majority of couple have not a big age difference, they are not the rule but the exception... and they know more problem that married couple with a more low difference of age... not always because of hemself, but because of the regard of other...
For myself, i use a +- 5 year around my own age... but if i have know a very young or more old woman who are compatible with my thinking, why not... my real limit is 18 yo because of law and 45 yo because i wish children... but seriously, what have too make age with feeling, love...
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Regards
Kvinna
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BTW BIG BLUE TEXT is not and argument and would not help us to understand your thoughts better
It is only evidence that he is feeling unsecure.
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I dunno about all this....
My wife is the one who seems to know every RW within a 2,000 mile radius through her participation in all the RW forums. There are a few who are unhappy, mostly because of desperate poor choices of their own doing. There are also some who fall into the "trade up girl" and the "green card girl" catagories. But from what I see and hear from her, most are pretty happy with their new husbands and families.
Kvinna seems to be yelling "Fire~!" in the theater after having smelled a little smoke from the popcorn machine in the lobby. If things were as bad as she presents, there wouldn't be a single AM/RW marriage at all, these women have an intelligence network to rival the CIA.
That's just my observation.
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My wife is the one who seems to know every RW within a 2,000 mile radius through her participation in all the RW forums.
What's forums ?? I want to participate into them too and take a look what your wife does write there on Russian language while you stays in "just your observation":P:P
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My wife is the one who seems to know every RW within a 2,000 mile radius through her participation in all the RW forums.
What's forums ?? I want to participate into them too and take a look what your wife does write there on Russian language while you stays in "just your observation":P:P
[/quote]
Could be fun, indeed!
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www.russianwomenabroad.com
This is a good place to start.
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Well I saw that site. There are some succsessful stories there as well as unhappy ends and a big section with phone numbers where call to in abuse situation
(Although I didn't find (yet) a topic about large difference in ages there)
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Elen
I'm sure it has been discussed over there many times, but perhaps you should start a thread on the subject yourself. You should be sure to come back and tell us what you learn on the subject.
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What for?
The only one thing I would want to know is what to do with such husband after 20 years in marriage.And I doubt there is any persone there (or here) who would share such life experience with me
And besides what an odd practice to discuss the same questions in males' and females' boards.? Remind me about men's and women' parts in muslims houses
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The only one thing I would want to know is what to do with such husband after 20 years in marriage.
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Change each week the flower on his tomb :?... and enjoy the heritage with a young american gigolo :shock: who love old woman for his money :(...
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who love old woman for his money :(...
yeah and keep fighting on some board trying to prove everybody a marriage with big ages difference is normal and my young boyfriend just happy with me :D:D
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What Elen and Kvnna do not want to acknowledge is that there are many sucessful AM/RW mariages with an age difference of 15 to 20 years than they care to admit to. For the most part men in the late 30's and early 40's are generally (hopefully) mature enough to understand the wants, needs and desires of their RW. Most of the men in this age group have already had at least one failed marrage and are looking for something different in women from the FSU. Normally (again hopefully) these men will have a bit more disposable income than men in their mid 20's and have a more stable job/income structure. Additionally this group of men should have a better idea of what they want in a woman who will be their best friend, lover and maybe mother to their child.
As I have said before my lady and I have a 19 year age difference and like any relationship we have had our share of ups and downs. Through it all we wanted to make our relationship work, with good communication, mutual respect and a healthy amount of love and understanding our relationship has become so much stronger over these past 5 years.
Could I have found a similar lady closer to my own age? Most likely but why should I compromise when I can have it all. A young, beautiful, sexy, intelligent lady who love me with all of her heart. What else can a man ask for?
As fr as I am concerned our age difference is one of the factors at makes our relationship work.
Here we go again - if you could read women's forum you could see that your financial situation and your sitizenship is only factors that make you, old guys, attractive for young russian/ukrainian women. Also, you don't want to see that women are not such different - russian women use to change very much after some years in the West. And look same as american/european women.
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http://www.russianwomenabroad.com (http://www.russianwomenabroad.com)
This is a good place to start.
Yeah, especially Hot Line!
By the way - I am a member there - I wonder what is your wife's nick? May be I know her.
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russian women use to change very much after some years in the West. And look same as american/european women.
This is absolutely true. Women are still women, no matter where they were born. Other than the cute accent, my wife is now as much an American woman as any other walking down the street or strolling tha Mall. You men keep forgetting, while we were out climbing trees and playing baseball, the girls were busy going to "Little Girl School" where they majored in subjects like "Shopping", "Male Manipulation", "Verbal Castration", "Guilt Trips", and "How To Properly Train A Man".
They are indeed the same no matter where they come from. If you are under the impression that only a woman from the FSU can make you happy, then you are going to be very dissapointed in the long haul. Your money and American citizenship might buy you someone a little younger and a bit prettier, but under the skin, they are all the same.
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Elen,
Why are you so confrontational? Why are you angry that some western men marry Russian women many years younger than them? Has life in general passed you by, perhaps because of your personality? Are you perhaps older, or less attractive than the women who are successful in attracting Western men?
Why do you shoot the messenger? The USA and its citizens are not responsible for the mess your country got into in the 20th Century. Until 1941 the USA was isolationist. Communism was a most dreadful failure in the Soviet Union, with Stalin brutally murdering tens of millions of the best and often most intelligent citizens.
Elen, the world is not fair. Get used to it. In particular, Russia is not a fair place. The USA also is not very fair by western European standards.
I am marrying a Ukrainian woman twenty plus years younger than me. She has not bulked up in the west and will not be doing so, unlike many others. She acknowledges my financial situation as important to her as being part of my attraction.
As a counter point, consider Berlin in 1946. Attractive young German women would sleep with GI's for nylons, cigarettes and chocolate. Many marriages resulted also. This situation would enrage you no doubt, and it seems unfair to me as well that the German women were in such a plight. Yet was the USA responsible for their plight, or was it the choice of the adult population in Germany in electing Hitler to power democratically in 1933? The Western conquerors of the German armies also starved almost one million German prisoners of war in the years 1945-46, whilst sleeping with their women.
In the Soviet Union, a small number of bullyboys and hungry fools backed the wrong horse in 1917 and afterwards. Is that the fault of the west or the USA in particular? Winston Churchill for one tried his darndest to unseat Lenin. Ukrainians resisted the Soviet invasion and paid a heavy price. In one hundred years the Tsarist secret police killed perhaps 10,000 Russians. Stalin killed that many citizens each day during some years of the 1930's. The ongoing injustices in Russia and Moscow nowadays are largely the result of a few idealistic fools from your grandparent's generation. Why blame Westerners for the current limited choices for some FSU women?
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
I am marrying a Ukrainian woman twenty plus years younger than me. She has not bulked up in the west and will not be doing so, unlike many others. She acknowledges my financial situation as important to her as being part of my attraction.
How can you be sure if you are marrying??? Will you say the same after she get her permanent GC?
In the Soviet Union, a small number of bullyboys and hungry fools backed the wrong horse in 1917 and afterwards. Is that the fault of the west or the USA in particular? Winston Churchill for one tried his darndest to unseat Lenin. Ukrainians resisted the Soviet invasion and paid a heavy price. In one hundred years the Tsarist secret police killed perhaps 10,000 Russians. Stalin killed that many citizens each day during some years of the 1930's. The ongoing injustices in Russia and Moscow nowadays are largely the result of a few idealistic fools from your grandparent's generation. Why blame Westerners for the current limited choices for some FSU women?
[/size][/font]WHAT ukrainians resisted??? Ukraine was never independent country and even in World war there was lots of fashists spys and servants between ukrainians.
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:shock: insane asylum! after 2WW they'll recall Куликовскую битву!
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By the way - I am a member there - I wonder what is your wife's nick? May be I know her.
I believe she posts there as "Druza"
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Elen,
That's a good question.
What does she do with me when I'm 80 and she's
only 56? Or if I fall apart early at age 70 when she will
be only 46.
I guess there are basically two choices:
1- She eventually gets tired of my inactivity or bad health and
decides to find a younger man. ..Divorce. :shock:
2- She is a loyal devoted wife and decides to stay
with me, out of principle, even though she's bored
and unhappy. It's not so bad, because she'll inherit
my car and condo, 401k, and whatever. She also realizes
our children have grown fond of me. :?
3- She is a loyal wife and has worked all of these years to
keep the marriage vital, interesting, and full of love.
She gladly stays with me and helps me with my bottle
of oxygen and wheel chair. We can still touch each other
in the right way. :)
I guess I meant 'three' choices.
We hope for scenario #3. As we sink into a stuttering mature
oblivion, we reminisce about the decade or two of life
with the ultimate woman, an angelic woman from the FSU.
No other woman compares with her. There is nothing like her inner
and outer beauty. A few short years with her, is worth more
than diamonds or gold. ...Somebody stop me. -doug
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300spartans,
Sounds to like you hit the nail right on the head about Elen "life in general passed you by, perhaps because of your personality? Are you perhaps older, or less attractive than the women who are successful in attracting Western men?"
Face it Elen the vast majority of AM are going to the FSU because far to many AW's are for the most part psychotic bitches. Additionally the feminist movement has convinced far too many AW that they do not need a man in their life anymore that a full time well paid career is a good substitute for children, family and a loving relationship.
What is wrong with a man wanting to be with a beautiful, sexy, intelligent lady who is 10, 15 or 20 years younger than himself anyway, as long as the lady is happy with the relationship. I have given numerious examples of many happy AM/RW couples with an average difference of over 15 years who have been together for almost 5 years now ( I am speaking of the men in my work crew of course). What is wrong with a man wanting to build a relationship and family with a younger lady from the FSU especially if the ladies from that part of the world have a better attitude towards family and marrage than the women here?
To me it sounds from your rants like you are more the typical angry American woman, what is the reason for your all of your anger towards American men?
As for the RW's becoming Americanized, I am sorry but you are wrong at least from my experience with my lady and observing the other AM/RW couples we know.
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Here we go again - if you could read women's forum you could see that your financial situation and your sitizenship is only factors that make you, old guys, attractive for young russian/ukrainian women. Also, you don't want to see that women are not such different - russian women use to change very much after some years in the West. And look same as american/european women.
Well lets see, when my lady arrived here in April of 2000 she was 55kg, now she is 51kg, she is turning 30 in a few months and she is still asked for ID whenever we go out for dinner and a drink or tries to purchase aome wine (actually she looks a bit younger now than when she first arrived). My lady always dresses up a bit before we go anywhere and will never leave the house without at least some make-up and fixing here hair.
You say most RW's will look the same as American/European women after they have been here for a while. Hell girl if more American/European women looked and acted as my lady dose (and her Russian girl friends) then there would be no reason for American men to look to the FSU. Personally Fiorella it sounds to me like wishful thinking on your part maybe because you have become just like the vast majority of American women.
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Elen, Why are you so confrontational? Why are you angry that some western men marry Russian women many years younger than them?
What do you call "confrontation" and "angry". Post quotations from my posts for I'll be able to answer you .
The USA and its citizens are not responsible for the mess your country got into in the 20th Century. Until 1941 the USA was isolationist.
Really and what did the USA do on our territory in 20s during the Intervation ? Re-read the history of the USSR, my boy:D
Elen, the world is not fair. Get used to it. In particular, Russia is not a fair place. The USA also is not very fair by western European standards.
Why do you think that my viewpoint on marriage with big ages difference depends on politic??? I would say the same about Russians old men as well.
Ukrainians resisted the Soviet invasion and paid a heavy price.
It's my sclerosis or there was not such country as Ukraine at all??? (for to be invided by Soviet Union)[/size][/font]
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There has been some good "back & forth" on this subject. I for one appreciate the spirit put forth in everyone's opinion. I would like to add my 2 cents now:
On the Americanization of RW-My wife added a well needed 10 pounds since her arrival in America 6 years ago. Once she hits what she thinks is her perfect weight, there is not a single lb more added. She has become Americanized in some ways: she wears more casual clothes more often now. Of course you have to also fator in that we live in CA and it is waay more casual here than elsewhere in the US. But she is far from being an AW in many ways. She is still 10 times more feminine than most AW. She is not hung up with penis envy like most AW. She enjoys her role as a woman. She takes great pride in "taking care of her man". And yes, she is still insanely jealous and territorial over me. She recently made the comment that "America has perserved my beauty. If I were still in Russia, I would look much older now." I think she will always be as Russian as she is now.
Large age differences-Yes there will be obsticals to overcome in the future. We have made plans as to how those will be handled. A couple of interesting thoughts: With the average age at death for men in Russia being somewhere 10 or 15 years younger than in America, isn't the "gap" somewhat reduced by marrying an American man? My wife made a very conscious decision to marry me, a man much older than she. She knew going into this that she would reap the benifits that come with an older husband: more settled, financially responsible and more mature. She also knew the ultimate unpleasant consequences that she will have me for less time than she would a younger man. In the end, she chose me.
KenC
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Elen, That's a good question.
Yes and for my answers for that question which were practically idential to yours ones I was marked as ALL MEN (and espesially Americans ones) HATER :D:D:D
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Face it Elen the vast majority of AM are going to the FSU because far to many AW's are for the most part psychotic bitches
I don't FACE that I don't know if THAT true and I don't trust males who say such things about women:?
What is wrong with a man wanting to be with a beautiful, sexy, intelligent lady who is 10, 15 or 20 years younger than himself [/size][/color][/font]
well may be nothing except a lack of self-criticism
as long as the lady is happy with the relationship. [/size][/color][/font]
yeah! exactly what I said "as LONG as...." How long - that's is a question :D:P:P
To me it sounds from your rants like you are more the typical angry American woman, what is the reason for your all of your anger towards American men?[/size][/color][/font]
Once more let give out examples of my ANGRY about men (and particular about American ones)
As for the RW's becoming Americanized, I am sorry but you are wrong at least from my experience with my lady and observing the other AM/RW couples we know.
Your wife was born and raised in "old" social conditions that's the reason of her difference from american women. New generation of russian girls is NEW one. and I'm not sure you will get the same results with women grown up in capitalist society where money mean such many (if not everything)
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Your wife was born and raised in "old" social conditions that's the reason of her difference from american women. New generation of russian girls is NEW one. and I'm not sure you will get the same results with women grown up in capitalist society where money mean such many (if not everything).
Elen,
I will concede the point that in the new reality which is Russia today girls under 25 from the large cities could very well become much more money oriented in their husband selection. That said, Russia is a BIG country with many smaller cities, towns and villages where the more traditional values are still being taught and are considered to be important.
Additionally I am very happy to hear that you acknowledge that girls "born and raised in "old" social conditions" are "the reason of her difference from american women." The vast majority of American men I have met who are considering looking for a bride in the FSU or are actively looking are in their late 30's or early to mid 40's. I counsel these men to ignore the large cities and to look for ladies over 25 for many reasons, one of with is as you so clearly said the younger city girls are becoming more like American women.
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That said, Russia is a BIG country with many smaller cities, towns and villages where the more traditional values are still being taught and are considered to be important.
At you place I would not mistaken (or fool) yourselves with traditional valies of girls from small towns The wishes to marry to foriegn husband of these girls more depend on money than in big cities. And also that is a big question what these girls were taught at home and what education they got at streets of small towns as their parents (mostly single mothers as there are not enough decent males in our small towns, are there?;)) had to spend too much time not at home but at variuose jobs, trying to survive .
And to your inform the most perfect scammers are from little towns:P:P:P (it's not me I have read that at this board:D)
And when I tell "old conditions" I mean free of pay edication for anybody in any spheras , free of pay health care, lack of stupid TV shows and commercials and the idea money is not the main thing in this life. I doubt you can find all these now especially in our small towns.
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Face it Elen the vast majority of AM are going to the FSU because far to many AW's are for the most part psychotic bitches
I don't FACE that I don't know if THAT true and I don't trust males who say such things about women:?[/size][/color][/font][/quote]
Gentlemen, please. Lamblasting AW because of some bad apples is not a very gentleman thing to do. You guys come out sounding like misogynists. Elen is right on the money with the above statement. If you feel this way about AW, how do we know you don't feel the same about women in general? I know many very good and kind women in this country for me to accept this generalization that AW are a bunch of crazy bitches.
Let's show a little decorum, after all most of us have been saying that we are good, caring and understanding men.
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Elen,
It sounds to me like you have been out of the loop for far too long, a perfect example. My wife's younger sister Alexandra, she is 25 from a village about 1000 km east of Moscow, intelligent, well educated, very attractive and holds the "old world traditional values", she is single as she can not find an acceptable Russian man and there are many more just like her, I know having spend a great deal of time (recently) in the more rual parts of Russia.
You may not like hearing the truth Elen but you are spreading disinformation for whatever personal gratification or vendetta you have about Am's finding a bride in the FSU.
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Face it Elen the vast majority of AM are going to the FSU because far to many AW's are for the most part psychotic bitches
I don't FACE that I don't know if THAT true and I don't trust males who say such things about women:?
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Maybe I was being overly harsh as I was not speaking about ALL AW, still far too many single AW seem to have lost their sanity and the more traditional "old world" family values.
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It sounds to me like you have been out of the loop for far too long, a perfect example
I'm about tendency with life in small towns in Russia now and for sure I'm more close to that reality than you in your America
As for your opinion about American women it's not the first time you gave out such "declarations" so it was not just a slip:?[/size][/color][/font]
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You may not like hearing the truth Elen but you are spreading disinformation for whatever personal gratification or vendetta you have about Am's finding a bride in the FSU.
May I know what's disinformation i'm spreading? If you are about scammers form small towns then let's go and check some black lists of yours [/size][/color][/font]
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It sounds to me like you have been out of the loop for far too long, a perfect example
I'm about tendency with life in small towns in Russia now and for sure I'm more close to that reality than you in your America
As for your opinion about American women it's not the first time you gave out such "declarations" so it was not just a slip:?[/size][/color][/font]
[/quote]
First of all Elen my comment about most AM was not a slip, it is an observation baised on experience not a "declaration" of fact, while you may not like my opinion I can assure you far more men agree with me than not.
I am happy to hear you admit that you are significantly out of the recent knowledge loop about life in rual Russia so you acknowledge that your comments about this subject are of no real value.
As for your comment about you being "more close to that reality than you in your America." I am sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are living as a permanent resident in America then is this not your counrty as well or are you one of those permanent residents who hate America and what we stand for?
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You may not like hearing the truth Elen but you are spreading disinformation for whatever personal gratification or vendetta you have about Am's finding a bride in the FSU.
May I know what's disinformation i'm spreading? If you are about scammers form small towns then let's go and check some black lists of yours [/size][/color][/font]
[/quote]
Elen you are espousing disinformation about why ladies from the FSU marry men from other countries, let alone why they would marry someone 10, 15 or 20 years their senior.
As for "my" black list, I hvae no need to publish yet another list as there are several high quality black lists in the internet. Scammers come from all walks of life, from every corner of the Earth, this is nothing new life is a buyer beware adventure. So what is your point here?
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First of all Elen my comment about most AM was not a slip, it is an observation baised on experience not a "declaration" of fact, while you may not like my opinion I can assure you far more men agree with me than not.
I've told you the SAME it was not a slip of you. And I YES don't like such "males' " opinion as well as many others Russian women don't accept it. We have our "red flags" too and such "nice " words in American's women address are included in that list. It's not only a matter of dating bussiness but a "basic" thing of "good (or bad) breeding"
I am happy to hear you admit that you are significantly out of the recent knowledge loop about life in rual Russia so you acknowledge that your comments about this subject are of no real value.
:shock::shock::? and where have I said something close to such statement of yours?
As for your comment about you being "more close to that reality than you in your America." I am sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.
Hall-o-o-o, boy !! :DWe are speaking about life in Russia
If you are living as a permanent resident in America then is this not your counrty as well or are you one of those permanent residents who hate America and what we stand for?[/size][/color][/font]
How do you say that "Wake up and smell a coffee??
If you forget we were speaking about life in small RUSSIAN towns, WHERE have I said something about life in AMERICA???
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Scammers come from all walks of life, from every corner of the Earth, this is nothing new life is a buyer beware adventure. So what is your point here?
My point is - as life in small towns is more harder in finansial aspect then a possability to come across some girl who puts money on the first place in dating business is more higher there than in some big city .
Now if I put too many grammar mistakes in my sentence , please somebody let correct them for our Tiger :? would be able to understand what I'm speaking about .. at least:?[/size][/color][/font]
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Elen,
I am sorry if i misunderstood you but sometimes your poor use of the English language forces me to guess at what you are trying to say.
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I would appreciate if you post quotations with my such poor English with corrected mistakes
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My point is - as life in small towns is more harder in finansial aspect then a possability to come across some girl who puts money on the first place in dating business is more higher there than in some big city .
Now if I put too many grammar mistakes in my sentence , please somebody let correct them for our Tiger :? would be able to understand what I'm speaking about .. at least:?[/size][/color][/font]
Elen,
For whatever reason you seem to be fixated on the view that the vast majority of ladies from the FSU seeking men from another country are out to scam them in some way. Additionally I strongly disagree with you about the motovation of ladies from the smaller cities, towns and villages to be scammers over the girls for the large cities, If someone is predisposed to criminal behavior it will matter little where thay are from.
As you so conventualy seem to ignore, my lady is from and has strong family and personal ties to rual Russia, we both know numerious ladies who would be happy to meet a nice family oriented man regardless (with minor exceptions) of where he is from. Several of these ladies have fond happiness here in America as well as Canada and England so your assumptions seem to be baised on some prejudices towards men from other countries marryng women from the FSU.
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Additionally I strongly disagree with you about the motovation of ladies from the smaller cities, towns and villages to be scammers over the girls for the large cities, If someone is predisposed to criminal behavior it will matter little where thay are from.
Ok. Let's give out your ideas about why you don't like to deal with girls from big cities. And when you'll post your variation of reality let's work out in detail about such concepts as "Americanized women" and "old traditional values" [/color][/font]
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Fiorella and Elen,
Several men have tried to reason with both of you, which seems to be a waste of time. You both have a singular worldview including numerous distortions about Putin's Russia and life in the Soviet Union. This is normal, most former Soviet residents are very ignorant about the things that actually happened in their own country, even during their own lifetime. Even those that have lived in Siberia tend to downplay the evidence of their own eyes, such as seeing women from punishment work camps and physically unfit soldiers marching off to work at the point of bayonets. This was seen by my fiancé in the 1980's and probably is still going on today. Russia has often been a heartless and cruel country, and ladies such as you two are good examples of the results. Genetically speaking this cruelty has some positive though politically incorrect results. The weak are eliminated from the breeding pool and oftentimes the best-looking young women are selected for survival. This has been going on since the days of the Golden Horde, and probably earlier. The killing and selection process has been at it's most extreme in Ukraine. No wonder many Ukrainian women are so attractive. They are often more feminine and emotional than Russian women. Thinner too, if my own eyes are any guide. My fiancé gained a few kilos living with me in Ukraine and has not gained any more weight in several months in the West. After marriage, I do not expect any change, at least for some years. After she gains permanent residency, probably not then either. My UW is very proud of being slim and attractive and she maintains her slimness mostly for herself rather than the approval of others. Like all people she is a unique individual, she is very aware that some FSU women become chubsters in the West, she saw some of them on TV in Kiev, and at the marriage agency.
I am not going to argue with you two ladies, your opinions are your own. Please remember that this board is predominantly for the exchange of views about FSU women relationships by western men. Whilst it is nice to hear a FSU woman's opinion, if only as a warning, desist trying to attack those men who the board exists for.
Think how you would like it if one or two WM did the same thing on Russian language boards specifically intended for FSU women. In fact, just think. Please stop quoting dozens of snippets from other posts and then contradicting them. The men here are entitled to their opinions without your attempts to drive them away.
On a positive note, I believe neither of you would be ladies that deceive and trick WM (and RM!) financially, as do many other FSU women as you both have proudly pointed out. Especially in the FSU are victims blamed, and no sympathy exists for them. This is a point of interest for me; you despise WM, especially Americans for being trusting, naive and gullible. Yet, if either of you were the type to trick and cheat WM, you would hardly post your regular attacks on this board. I can say that after being cheated/lied to and financially conned by a woman on our first date/robbed in the street by Gypsies in Kiev (probably a set up involving my young interpreter) in just my first 24 hours, I will never again be either naive, trusting or gullible. So thankyou FSU for those brutal lessons so late in my life. However, back in the West I am slowly "letting my guard down".
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It's such bull **** that there is even no desire for answer (wich is a rare thing for me , actually :?)
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Think how you would like it if one or two WM did the same thing on Russian language boards specifically intended for FSU women
Welcome there, but at first let go and study Russian
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
Fiorella and Elen,
Several men have tried to reason with both of you, which seems to be a waste of time. You both have a singular worldview including numerous distortions about Putin's Russia and life in the Soviet Union.
Yes, it is very true that only US citizens know the truth and who is right.
Excuse me, but you are showing no respect for other points of view or other "worldview". In that case, why did you or are you looking for a Russian bride? Mr. White Knight rescuing a princess? To be skromnie would be more useful.
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[line]
My fiancé gained a few kilos living with me in Ukraine and has not gained any more weight in several months in the West. After marriage, I do not expect any change, at least for some years.
[line]
Is it mean no child, at least for some year ? :(
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
Fiorella and Elen,
Several men have tried to reason with both of you, which seems to be a waste of time. You both have a singular worldview including numerous distortions about Putin's Russia and life in the Soviet Union. This is normal, most former Soviet residents are very ignorant about the things that actually happened in their own country, even during their own lifetime. Even those that have lived in Siberia tend to downplay the evidence of their own eyes, such as seeing women from punishment work camps and physically unfit soldiers marching off to work at the point of bayonets. This was seen by my fiancé in the 1980's and probably is still going on today. Russia has often been a heartless and cruel country, and ladies such as you two are good examples of the results. Genetically speaking this cruelty has some positive though politically incorrect results. The weak are eliminated from the breeding pool and oftentimes the best-looking young women are selected for survival. This has been going on since the days of the Golden Horde, and probably earlier. The killing and selection process has been at it's most extreme in Ukraine. No wonder many Ukrainian women are so attractive. They are often more feminine and emotional than Russian women. Thinner too, if my own eyes are any guide. My fiancé gained a few kilos living with me in Ukraine and has not gained any more weight in several months in the West. After marriage, I do not expect any change, at least for some years. After she gains permanent residency, probably not then either. My UW is very proud of being slim and attractive and she maintains her slimness mostly for herself rather than the approval of others. Like all people she is a unique individual, she is very aware that some FSU women become chubsters in the West, she saw some of them on TV in Kiev, and at the marriage agency.
I am not going to argue with you two ladies, your opinions are your own. Please remember that this board is predominantly for the exchange of views about FSU women relationships by western men. Whilst it is nice to hear a FSU woman's opinion, if only as a warning, desist trying to attack those men who the board exists for.
Think how you would like it if one or two WM did the same thing on Russian language boards specifically intended for FSU women. In fact, just think. Please stop quoting dozens of snippets from other posts and then contradicting them. The men here are entitled to their opinions without your attempts to drive them away.
On a positive note, I believe neither of you would be ladies that deceive and trick WM (and RM!) financially, as do many other FSU women as you both have proudly pointed out. Especially in the FSU are victims blamed, and no sympathy exists for them. This is a point of interest for me; you despise WM, especially Americans for being trusting, naive and gullible. Yet, if either of you were the type to trick and cheat WM, you would hardly post your regular attacks on this board. I can say that after being cheated/lied to and financially conned by a woman on our first date/robbed in the street by Gypsies in Kiev (probably a set up involving my young interpreter) in just my first 24 hours, I will never again be either naive, trusting or gullible. So thankyou FSU for those brutal lessons so late in my life. However, back in the West I am slowly "letting my guard down".
Well put 300spartans, of course neither lady will listen to you, typical of such women, which is most likely why they are posting on this board, no respectable man will have them.
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Well put 300spartans, of course neither lady will listen to you, typical of such women, which is most likely why they are posting on this board, no respectable man will have them.
:D:D:D They call THAT "arguments"
Following such logic eihter there are no respectable women in America at all (wonder what a such odd effect democracy has on population in American paradise :shock:) or there is something wrong with guys themselves as they run to the East to have somebody who would listen to their "smart" babbling:P:P)
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Think how you would like it if one or two WM did the same thing on Russian language boards specifically intended for FSU women
Welcome there, but at first let go and study Russian
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[/quote]
они итак к нам периодически приходят и пишут по-английски, вот сейчас будут кричать - почему я тут написала по-русски, хотя мы от них не требуем знания русского.
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there are no respectable women in America at all
Bingo, Yatzee and the answer is? They are extremily few truly good women in America anymore.
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I suspect thought the second part of my sentence is more probable :P
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Only in your dreams Elen, you just seem to be another woman who has come to hate men.
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Who do tell you I hate men ??? We just have a different meaning for this word:P
(PS Calm down "hate" is too strong emotion to be wasted on you)
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I think we should get back to the subject of this thread: Age Differences as things seem to have strayed abit afield.
We (my lady and I) have recently come into contact with some new neighbors who would seem to fit into this discussion very well. He is a sucessful American businessman 51, divorced with a 14 year old daughter living with her mother in another region of the country. He met and married an attractive 27 year old Ukrainian girl with a 4 year old son, the have been here in south west Florida for 9 months now.
My wife is the first person Olya has met from the FSU sense arriving in America and the two have been spending quite a bit of time together. My wife believes that Olya is sincere in her feelings for her husband and from what little time I have spent around the two of them their relationship seems to be very good. Olya dose not speak very good English just yet but she is trying hard and wants to learn enough to learn to drive, as for what their future will bring in the future no one can tell, still they seem to have a good start on their relationship.
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[user=17]TigerPaws[/user]
Face it Elen the vast majority of AM are going to the FSU because far to many AW's are for the most part psychotic bitches.[/quote]
:D:D:D
First it is a very small minority who do this. As for the psychotic bitches, that is very interesting, for we must assume now or soon that the men for the most part are/will be psychotic too, being educated by those psychotic bitches. So we have/will have a lot of psychotic goats...:?
Or do we have to assume that the mothers for the most part are no psychotic bitches...:?
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Well put 300spartans, of course neither lady will listen to you, typical of such women, which is most likely why they are posting on this board, no respectable man will have them.
:D:D:D They call THAT "arguments"
Following such logic eihter there are no respectable women in America at all (wonder what a such odd effect democracy has on population in American paradise :shock:) or there is something wrong with guys themselves as they run to the East to have somebody who would listen to their "smart" babbling:P:P)
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[/quote]
Elen,
What is sure is that the man (note to Dan : "not all men") who wrote that is not respectable because he does not respect you. With such attitude it is understandable that they will be rejected by US women.
But why did/do they look for a Russian woman? Why:?
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I think we should get back to the subject of this thread: Age Differences as things seem to have strayed abit afield.
We (my lady and I) have recently come into contact with some new neighbors who would seem to fit into this discussion very well. He is a sucessful American businessman 51, divorced with a 14 year old daughter living with her mother in another region of the country. He met and married an attractive 27 year old Ukrainian girl with a 4 year old son, the have been here in south west Florida for 9 months now.
My wife is the first person Olya has met from the FSU sense arriving in America and the two have been spending quite a bit of time together. My wife believes that Olya is sincere in her feelings for her husband and from what little time I have spent around the two of them their relationship seems to be very good. Olya dose not speak very good English just yet but she is trying hard and wants to learn enough to learn to drive, as for what their future will bring in the future no one can tell, still they seem to have a good start on their relationship.
OK! Now you can propose them the "test"...
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With such attitude it is understandable that they will be rejected by US women.
But why did/do they look for a Russian woman? Why:?
You are missing the point completly, men who are looking for ladies from the FUS are not being rejected by AW, they are the ones rejecting the AW and looking for something better in the FSU.
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With such attitude it is understandable that they will be rejected by US women.
But why did/do they look for a Russian woman? Why:?
You are missing the point completly, men who are looking for ladies from the FUS are not being rejected by AW, they are the ones rejecting the AW and looking for something better in the FSU.
[/quote]Very, very interesting!!!
"something", you are looking for "something" not for someone, point well noted. For you a woman is a thing. Very intesting indeed. I understand why an US woman will reject you. She has a choice.
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Very, very interesting!!!
"something", you are looking for "something" not for someone, point well noted. For you a woman is a thing. Very intesting indeed. I understand why an US woman will reject you. She has a choice.
Coulter,
It was not that I did not have any choices in AW, in fact I had all to many choices, men of means usually do, the issue was and for may AM today is the vast majority of AW have lost the more traditional family values. Additionally if an AM wants a beautiful, sexy, intelligent, younger lady (15 plus years) as his bride who has many of the more traditional values his choices in AW is extremilly limited. I is not that an AM can not find such a woman in America but the pickings are very slim, in my case, within the circles I travel in the pool of avaliable AW who meet the criteria I was looking for was all but non existant. The logical choice for those men who do not want to compromise is to look for places where the pool of available ladies with the traits he desires is larger, hence many AM have looked to the FSU.
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traditional values
I hear that constanly and would be thankfull to find out what's THAT at least:? Please let use simple sentences for I would be able to understand you.
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Elen,
Traditional = subservient
Never leaves the house without man except to buy food and beer.
Brings man beer and food to his TV watching chair.
Is happy when man watches sports on TV
Cleans all the time
Always ready for sex in all 'strange' ways
Totally dependent on man for all needs
Never, never makes demands
Always cheerful and never complains
Dresses sexy in public and does all to make mans friends jealous
Agrees to all that man decides or says
Will never, ever leave or divorce man
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:shock::shock::shock:
OH! You just opened my eyes:shock:
Wonder how I managed to live without all these:?:D
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Yes Elen,
I have never met a RW/UW that comes even close to being 'traditional'
Think of thirsty men in the desert... and a mirage appears
:D:D
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Traditional = old-minded
- Prefert real kitchen food in place of Mc Donald ( ready food together )
- Marry you by love and not for your wallet
- Accept use her free time for take care of children with husband in place of use children garden...
- Respect of olders people and parents
- Have friendship relation
- Don't go sleep with the first man she meet for some fun
- Like use beautiful clothes and not only jeans and t-shirt
- Don't wait 35 yo for beging think to children
- ....
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Bruno,
Your version of 'traditional' applies to maybe 10 percent of men seeking RW. Back in the deep dark recesses of the mind many are looking for other things using 'traditional' as a veil..
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Very, very interesting!!!
"something", you are looking for "something" not for someone, point well noted. For you a woman is a thing. Very intesting indeed. I understand why an US woman will reject you. She has a choice.
Coulter,
It was not that I did not have any choices in AW, in fact I had all to many choices, men of means usually do, the issue was and for may AM today is the vast majority of AW have lost the more traditional family values. Additionally if an AM wants a beautiful, sexy, intelligent, younger lady (15 plus years) as his bride who has many of the more traditional values his choices in AW is extremilly limited. I is not that an AM can not find such a woman in America but the pickings are very slim, in my case, within the circles I travel in the pool of avaliable AW who meet the criteria I was looking for was all but non existant. The logical choice for those men who do not want to compromise is to look for places where the pool of available ladies with the traits he desires is larger, hence many AM have looked to the FSU.
[/quote]
You want to tell us that you are not rich enough to find a younger beautiful clever US girl:?
To summarize:
something = woman
pool of available ladies = shopping center
Better and better.
If you are so happy with your family, why do you spend time on the computer...
:?
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Elen,
Traditional = subservient
Never leaves the house without man except to buy food and beer.
Brings man beer and food to his TV watching chair.
Is happy when man watches sports on TV
Cleans all the time
Always ready for sex in all 'strange' ways
Totally dependent on man for all needs
Never, never makes demands
Always cheerful and never complains
Dresses sexy in public and does all to make mans friends jealous
Agrees to all that man decides or says
Will never, ever leave or divorce man
:D:D:D
If the US women are not traditional, maybe I should sart looking into the USA!
Only problem: the level of education is so low...
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Seriously for a moment (I know it is hard Elen), every man will have his own idea (hopefully) of what he is looking for in a lady from the FSU. Traditional values will mean something different to each man so at the risk of over generalizing I will start with a few of my thoughs (not in any order on importance).
Traditional values hopefully will include:
Thinking about the wants, needs and desires of her husband and family before herself and her career.
An interest and desire to keep up her personal appearence, dress well, keep her weight under control and generally do her best to look nice for her husband and herself.
Be the homemaker (yes men are expected to help as well), cook, clean, laundry, shop and care for their home.
If they have children she would be the primary care giver (yes I change dirty diapers as well).
Her input into family decisions are very important and necessary but in the end it is her husband that makes the final decision an she should ultimately acquiesce to his judgenent.
Loyalty, honesty and faithfullness to her husband and their vows.
A willingness work with her husband on the problems they will face together both as a couple and personally.
To be his best friend who is someone he can talk opeanly to without fear, his lover to share the most intimate of time with and the mother to their children, a woman who will care for their family with love, kindness and respect for the values they share.
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too may "for her husband" , "to her husband" for MY test:P (And I'm more than serious)
And if seriously I think you spent TOO many years in army as general for to stop give orders.
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[line]
Her input into family decisions are very important and necessary but in the end it is her husband that makes the final decision an she should ultimately acquiesce to his judgenent.
[line]
Wowww... usually, Russian woman make the final decision... and they can use all the woman weapon for this... food not ready when you come back to home after a heavy day of work, no more sex until you change your mind, ... it is why i like russian woman, they have very strong character and it is need to "negociate" together for reach some decision.... in your case, you have find the exception...
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in your case, you have find the exception...
Now:? for such big money you always can find an exception to any rules
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Now:? for such big money you always can find an exception to any rules
Your jealousy is showing through Elen.
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Only in your dreams , Tiger.
Not everybody is sold for money ( never mind how much saleman offers) Besides the most valuable things in this world are free-of pay, you just don't aware about that copy-book truth:P
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Ahhhh, now we are on track here. That is what I am looking for too. A woman who will make me feel like a king, who will wait on me hand and foot. Perhaps i can even train her to fetch the paper as well as the beer while I sit there and watch all the games.
OK, well, now a little more serously. I think that is what a lot of us are hunting for. A woman who will treat us like we are special and make us feel like someone really cares about us as people and as a husband. Someone tries to treat us like we are important to her.
The way some of this is worded, it almost sounds like we are looking for a love slave. I don't think that is the case. I think we also want to work hard to make thier life special. To listen to the things that she cares about and that bother her, to give her a nicer life than she has ever knownm, to be a faithful and good husband, to enjoy some of the events in our areas together, to be a good father for any children that she has or will have, to make her feel like she is important and wanted and special.
What we really want is a happy marriage where we have a best friend to share life, a partner, a lover, a person we can count on and to build the happiest marriage possible. This is not something bad. It something many American men dream of but can never find with an American woman.
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Well we now have 14 pages of meandering argument on this thread.
Most of it just ain't worth reading.
One of the most important lessons from this thread is you just cannot win an argument with a Russian or Ukrainian woman.
I know that my wife will continue to argue (if she thinks she is right) as long as she draws breath. Well as she is much younger than me - I have no chance of winning....
Seriously on lots of things we have to agree to differ. Just accept our different opinions and move on. This is one of the ways we make our marriage work.
I just ran the following past my wife -
Her input into family decisions are very important and necessary but in the end it is her husband that makes the final decision an she should ultimately acquiesce to his judgenent.
Really some guy thinks like that??? That is SO patronizing!
Needless to say but our household does not run like this. We are equal partners.
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Her input into family decisions are very important and necessary but in the end it is her husband that makes the final decision an she should ultimately acquiesce to his judgenent.
Really some guy thinks like that???
Nothing personal Leslie but you need to reclaim you balls, yes I really do think like that, at the end of the day when all is said and done SOMEONE has to make a decision. Now if you both agree that is all well and good, if not then a decision right or wrong has to be made and in my house generally (but not always) I am the most qualified to make that decision.
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Not everybody is sold for money ( never mind how much saleman offers) Besides the most valuable things in this world are free-of pay, you just don't aware about that copy-book truth:P
I am sorry Elen EVERYONE has a price and I mean EVERYONE, it might be more expensive for some than others but EVERYONE can be had for the right price.
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I have always been told by many women that Russian women WANT the guy making the decisions. They sorta think any guy that wants to make joint decisions is a wusss (not sure how yuo spell that) and they would not respect them.
I have had women really get upset with me when I am visiting their city where I have no idea what there is to do and where there is to go and try to have them decide what we are going to do. They want the guy to take charge of things.
I have also had women break off contact when I said I thought marriage was a partnership. I learned to keep my mouth shut on that one and basicallly I am not a take charge and start issuing orders type guy. I get very concerned about the likes and interests of my gal. I am of the opinion I should consider that a fault and work to overcome it if I am going to have a Russian wife.
This sorta goes against what everyone is saying here so let me lay the cards on the table. What are your experiences?
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I am sorry Elen EVERYONE has a price and I mean EVERYONE, it might be more expensive for some than others but EVERYONE can be had for the right price.
Bullshit Tiger. It is a little like what W. C. Fiends said. You can buy some of the people all the time and all the people some of the time. You can not buy all of the people all of the time.
Tiger, not to complain, but you are awful pre-occupied with money. I would almost think that out of your 99 posts 98 or more are about money. I am not going to say that money is not important but it always seems to me that those people I know who have a lot are a lot more miserable in their lives than those who just get buy but at a level that they don't have to worry about things. I really think you might be happier if you gave away a few hundred million and just kept a few million for pocket change. Just enought that you don't have to worry.
I am also not saying that making provisions to keep it is wrong. I expect to be faced with the prenup decision here in a few months and need to decide what I am going to do. The advice of you and everyone on this board has been helpful.
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[user=54]Turboguy[/user],
Nothing personal but my comments were directed towards Elen, she was being sanctimonious in her comments. In general a girl will try to get the best man her looks, age and intelligence can buy her.
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In general a girl will try to get the best man her looks, age and intelligence can buy her.
I'm mazed with genders of words in this sentence and can't catch who buys who?:?
Any way you speak about girls qualities and all I could figure out you're abble to give back was your money and a life in "golden cage" There is no need to go so far to America to see such kind of marriage, there are enough examples in Moscow with well predictable final
Btw my statement was
Not everybody is sold for money
your answer is I am sorry Elen EVERYONE has a price
Well let live happy in your world until somebody with more big money appears next to your wife:P
[/color][/font][/size][/color][/font]
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[line]
I am sorry Elen EVERYONE has a price and I mean EVERYONE, it might be more expensive for some than others but EVERYONE can be had for the right price.
[line]
Yep, it is what have think Al Capone in America... he have pay lawer, politic man, police... until some "incorruptible" have take care of him...
For some people, the price to pay is not in value like money but other supperior value like respect, honesty, a good heart, ...
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Yep, it is what have think Al Capone in America... he have pay lawer, politic man, police... until some "incorruptible" have take care of him...
For some people, the price to pay is not in value like money but other supperior value like respect, honesty, a good heart, ...
Bruno,
You really shold not comment on American history without a complete understaning of it, your example is without merit in this case. Capone was convicted for tax evasion not for the hundreds of real crimes he committed because no one would speak against him for many reasons. Yes Capone paid off everyone from the street cops to the politicians but he also sponsored almost all of the Chicago school lunch programs in a time when many children were starving. You are most likely not aware that if an employee of Capone was killed or seriously injured Capone made sure that man's family would be well taken care of in a time when people in America were starving to death.
I could go on about this but this board is about men finding, courting, marring and living with women from the FSU so lets try to stay on subject.
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Tigers... who go off topic... who have say that everyone have a price when we speak about wife... have you some respect for other people of only for yourself ?...
The example of Al Capone was for show that no everybody have a price...
But you reply show more about your own character...
You are most likely not aware that if an employee of Capone was killed or seriously injured Capone made sure that man's family would be well taken care of in a time when people in America were starving to death.
Great, give money for replace a husband and a father... it is like the chief of big fabric who prefert pay some fee when a worker know the dead that make the security better...
Yes Capone paid off everyone from the street cops to the politicians but he also sponsored almost all of the Chicago school lunch programs in a time when many children were starving.
It is not because a thief give some % of his dirty money that he is no more a thief...
You try to give you some excuse for your asocial and abnormal comportment but this change nothing to how i see yourself, like a man who have no respect of woman... who think only to himself... Maybe when you will be tired of your wife, you can exchange it... if you buy something, you have right to some garantie... how much is the guarantie on a wife...
In anycase, your wife is certainly a angel for support a man who think like you... you are very very lucky... i don't think that you can find a other like her in Russia or in other place in the world...
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Bruno,
I will not engage a lesser mind in personal attcks, back to the subject this board was designed for please.
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Here in the USA I personally witnessed my neighbors daughter( 25 y/o ) become extremely wealthy by marrying a rich man twice her age. During her marriage she had sex with her step son, me, my brother, and many more excluding her husband:? After divorcing the old guy she married her step son and when he died she became much more wealthy. She won't talk to me now:( Marriage is a very lucrative business here in the US. Such an interesting concept , purchasing a piece of paper from a government which gives a man these privileges. I think prostitution is the most honest type of romance. Just don't leave your wallet where she can find it. I know all people are not the same but there are so few honest people that it doesn't matter.
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I think anyone who does not think that having a lot of money can influence your life would be a little nieve.
I also think that many people know that money can not buy some of the most important things in life. It can buy companionship, and sex, but not love. It can buy services and even friendship but it can't buy respect. It can buy medical care but can't buy health.
Truthfully I think the gal who married the old guy and then the step son probably is very miserable inside. She might have a nice life style and great possesions but money really has very litttle value. Those who live their life based on acquiring and protecting it need to learn more the value of simple things.
Yes, I think many of the gals try to find the guy who will give the best life and to an extent they are buying that with their looks and figure and personallity being the price they pay. We too try tp buy the best gal we can with what we have to offer. Sometimes that might be money and sometimes it might be looks and sometimes it might be a chance for a caring, devoted husband. If the price we are paying is money then either someone can come along with more or these gals can figure out that they can have a lot of our money without putting up with us under the divorce laws here.
To me those relationships based on money, and possessions and beauty and a curvy body are all fairly shallow and will more likly end up in divorce court. Those who find someone who can be thier friend and partner and soulmate have a much better chance.
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Tigerpaws,
I won't argue with you. You will not change your opinions. The content and style of your own posts define your character far more eloquently than any criticism I could post. This message board has an experienced, intelligent membership. I will let them draw their own conclusions.
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
Fiorella and Elen,
Several men have tried to reason with both of you, which seems to be a waste of time. You both have a singular worldview including numerous distortions about Putin's Russia and life in the Soviet Union. This is normal, most former Soviet residents are very ignorant about the things that actually happened in their own country, even during their own lifetime. Even those that have lived in Siberia tend to downplay the evidence of their own eyes, such as seeing women from punishment work camps and physically unfit soldiers marching off to work at the point of bayonets. This was seen by my fiancé in the 1980's and probably is still going on today. Russia has often been a heartless and cruel country, and ladies such as you two are good examples of the results. Genetically speaking this cruelty has some positive though politically incorrect results. The weak are eliminated from the breeding pool and oftentimes the best-looking young women are selected for survival. This has been going on since the days of the Golden Horde, and probably earlier. The killing and selection process has been at it's most extreme in Ukraine. No wonder many Ukrainian women are so attractive. They are often more feminine and emotional than Russian women. Thinner too, if my own eyes are any guide. My fiancé gained a few kilos living with me in Ukraine and has not gained any more weight in several months in the West. After marriage, I do not expect any change, at least for some years. After she gains permanent residency, probably not then either. My UW is very proud of being slim and attractive and she maintains her slimness mostly for herself rather than the approval of others. Like all people she is a unique individual, she is very aware that some FSU women become chubsters in the West, she saw some of them on TV in Kiev, and at the marriage agency.
I am not going to argue with you two ladies, your opinions are your own. Please remember that this board is predominantly for the exchange of views about FSU women relationships by western men. Whilst it is nice to hear a FSU woman's opinion, if only as a warning, desist trying to attack those men who the board exists for.
Think how you would like it if one or two WM did the same thing on Russian language boards specifically intended for FSU women. In fact, just think. Please stop quoting dozens of snippets from other posts and then contradicting them. The men here are entitled to their opinions without your attempts to drive them away.
On a positive note, I believe neither of you would be ladies that deceive and trick WM (and RM!) financially, as do many other FSU women as you both have proudly pointed out. Especially in the FSU are victims blamed, and no sympathy exists for them. This is a point of interest for me; you despise WM, especially Americans for being trusting, naive and gullible. Yet, if either of you were the type to trick and cheat WM, you would hardly post your regular attacks on this board. I can say that after being cheated/lied to and financially conned by a woman on our first date/robbed in the street by Gypsies in Kiev (probably a set up involving my young interpreter) in just my first 24 hours, I will never again be either naive, trusting or gullible. So thankyou FSU for those brutal lessons so late in my life. However, back in the West I am slowly "letting my guard down".
Is it your board? When you will be owner of this board, we will listen you. May be. By the way, all western men are very welcome on our russian women's forum. But you don't need to disturb. Continue to live in illusions about russian/ukrainian women.
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[user=17]TigerPaws[/user][user=17] wrote:
Well put 300spartans, of course neither lady will listen to you, typical of such women, which is most likely why they are posting on this board, no respectable man will have them.
[/user]In such case we say - when you have no arguments you use mode of saying "you are same durak".:D[/b]
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Not everybody is sold for money ( never mind how much saleman offers) Besides the most valuable things in this world are free-of pay, you just don't aware about that copy-book truth:P
I am sorry Elen EVERYONE has a price and I mean EVERYONE, it might be more expensive for some than others but EVERYONE can be had for the right price.[/quote]What is YOUR price?
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What is YOUR price?
What is being offered?
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5 копеек за пучок в базарный день:P
(5 kopeykas for bunch in market-day)
(One more Russian saying for you)
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5 копеек за пучок в базарный день:P
(5 kopeykas for bunch in market-day)
(One more Russian saying for you)
Sorry I may be easy but I am not cheap. Old American saying.
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Well it was my price:P what's yours?
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Well it was my price:P what's yours?
What is being asked of me?
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It was just a female's curiosity about prices for "tigerpaws" at nowday market
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It was just a female's curiosity about prices for "tigerpaws" at nowday market
Ok, a fair question Elen.
What would it take for me to replace my wife? Interesting thought I have never really considered it.
To start with she would have to be able to grace the centerfold of Playboy without cosmetic surgery or photo enhancement, be intelligent, between 21 and 24 years old and a natural strawberry blonde. Her personal wealth would need to be within 10% of my own as you never trade down, she would need to have all of the traits I have come to expect and respect of my Russian wife and love me with all of her heart and yes her very soul.
Looks like a good starting list of wants, needs and desires to me and I am sure if I were to think about it I might come up with more to add. So the answer is yes like most people I can be had for the right price which is not always money.
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actually we asked about YOURS own personal price and what qualities you do have(except your money)
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actually we asked about YOURS own personal price and what qualities you do have
Elen,
Why do you ask you are most certainly not in any position to offer me anything I do not already have, so what benifit it is for me to bother with an answer?
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Because it was your own statement that EVERYBODY has his price. May be I shall feel more respect to you if I know out your price:P:P
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Because it was your own statement that EVERYBODY has his price. May be I shall feel more respect to you if I know out your price:P:P
As I said a price for what, everything depends on what someone is being asked to do? When I was being interviewed for my security clearence many years ago I was asked by the review board if I would ever sell secrets to a foreign power. My answer was maybe, it all depended on what I was being asked to reveal but I assured the panel that the price would be extreme, enough for me to retire comfortably forever in a lifestyle few ever imagine.
The review board thanked me for my honesty and granted me my security clearance.
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Tigerpaws and Elen. Why don't the two of you trade email addresses? Your endless debate has forced me to "unwatch this thread" as I am sure most others have long ago concluded. Or maybe you should have long ago started a new thread, "Two stuborn people with opposing views".
KenC
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Ken - this is a case where I hope Dan edits out all the miscellaneous impertinent information, closes the thread and archives alot of excellent information. Too bad the good information is littered with nonsense.
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Now KenC ;)You may make a company for us as well and say what you think about somebody tell EVERYBODY has his/her price.
In what "parrots"( that saying is form our well-know cartoon film :D)do you mesure people?
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Tigerpaws,
Below is an example of how to debate with a stuborn Russian woman.
KenC
Elen,
KenC
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KenC
Elen,
KenC
Elen:P
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Tigerpaws and Elen. Why don't the two of you trade email addresses? Your endless debate has forced me to "unwatch this thread" as I am sure most others have long ago concluded. Or maybe you should have long ago started a new thread, "Two stuborn people with opposing views".
KenC
KenC,
I agree it is time to stop a pointless argument and I should have done so long ago, Bruce is also right the moderator should delete a LARGE number of these posts and leave what he believes is useful to the discussion group. To be honest I was having some measure of fun baiting Elen along I just let things get a bit carried away, sorry to those of you who grew tired of this and I will not let it happen again. There is little to be gained from arguing with someone who refuses to listen and has no interest in having her preconceived ideas confused by facts.
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There is little to be gained from arguing with someone who refuses to listen and has no interest in having her preconceived ideas confused by facts.
if you replace her with his I'll agree with you for once[/size][/color][/font]
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Peace in our time!:D
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Peace in our time!:D
KenC,
I am ready but the insurgents keep shooting at me.
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I am ready but the insurgents keep shooting at me.
Are you ready to admit I was right?;) Just split that out and I'll leave you in a peace:D[/color][/font]
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I am ready but the insurgents keep shooting at me.
Are you ready to admit I was right?;) Just split that out and I'll leave you in a peace:D[/color][/font][/quote]
KenC,
See what I mean the insurgents keep shooting.
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I thought you said you were READY. But I see you are still breathing:X
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I respectfully submit that both parties are correct in their assumptions from their respective point of view.
Hold up a coin, look at your side and compare notes with someone else looking at the other.. both will see different impressions but in the end it is only one coin.
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This thread was started with KenC's statement
The biggest problem we have had with our large age difference (25 years) has been with other people's perception.
16 pages of discussion only showed it's true (though as it seems KenC's forgot what he wrote himself and brought it all only to my (and only my ) personal stubborn.
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The biggest problem we have had with our large age difference (25 years) has been with other people's perception.
[/quote] In an attempt to bring this discussion back on track, I would like to relate a very recent event. Last night was our neighbors 27th birthday, Olya and her son of 4 have been here in America for 9 months with her American husband who is 51. For her birthday we flew them over to Orlando in our twin engine airplane for dinner and a show. Of course Olya had never before been in a private aircraft so it was quite an experience for her and an eye opener sense my wife was flying the airplane (after many thousands of hours I do not need the additional experience). Anyway we all had a great time at dinner and the show, both Olya and her husband are very happy together and from what my wife tells me Olya is exactly as she seems to be an honest lady who is very much in love and happy with her husband and their relationship.
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Here we're again, trying to give out an EXEPTION for a RULE:? and using the fact that some Olya enjoys with fly at personal plane as a prove she loves her old husband for himself but not just a hight level style of life
На колу мочало - начинай с начала
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[line]
Here we're again, trying to give out an EXEPTION for a RULE:? and using the fact that some Olya enjoys with fly at personal plane as a prove she loves her old husband for himself but not just a hight level style of life.
[line]
Elen, stop the fight... it is not possible to change him...
About is story... it is a little like these i have know with my ex-russian wife...
In this time, i was with a very good income ( around 5000 euro month )... and i have my best friend with a better situation : owner of 17 super shopping center, owner of one football club, co-organisator of miss belgium beauty, he have meet several star from cinema,... he have for to my wife how much he was rich... result : my wife have begin to be difficult and ask to have the same level of life, she have sleep with him, his wife have know this, she have ask the divorce, he have loose a lot of money, ... the last time i have listen something about him, he was asking help to my state organization... it was the end of my good time with my own wife... maybe it is why i have choose now to be a simple working and that i hate these arrogant rich people...
Yes, Olya have enjoy the plane... but we don't know what have happen after, when she have come back home, what she think now about his lovely husband who have no plane.
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Elen, stop the fight... it is not possible to change him...
Ok! I admit the advice from reasonable man:D
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When a man has nothing to offer of his personality, he uses money.
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When a man has nothing to offer of his personality, he uses money.
and what can he offer if he doesn't have personality and money?
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When a man has nothing to offer of his personality, he uses money.
and what can he offer if he doesn't have personality and money?[/quote]GC
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Sorry but I tried to bring the subject back on tract without attacking anyone, just presenting as sucess story, I am sorry there are those here who enjoy attempting to tear apart something they do not believe in.
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For her birthday we flew them over to Orlando in our twin engine airplane for dinner and a show. Of course Olya had never before been in a private aircraft so it was quite an experience for her and an eye opener sense my wife was flying the airplane (after many thousands of hours I do not need the additional experience). Anyway we all had a great time at dinner and the show, both Olya and her husband are very happy together
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Subject ??? It only show how much you are rich and what you can make with your money...
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Last night was our neighbors 27th birthday, Olya and her son of 4 have been here in America for 9 months with her American husband who is 51.
[line]
OK, this is the subject... 24 year between wife and man... Success story ??? Only 9 months together... they are only at the beginning... You are the success story... 5 year married to a young woman, child, rich... You are lucky, you are the exception who confirm the rule... not the usual ...
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OK, this is the subject... 24 year between wife and man... Success story ??? Only 9 months together... they are only at the beginning... You are the success story... 5 year married to a young woman, child, rich... You are lucky, you are the exception who confirm the rule... not the usual ...
Bruno,
No one can predict the future for any relationship they are far too dynamic, my point is that relationships with large age differences can work as it is up th the couple to make their relationship work.
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OK, this is the subject... 24 year between wife and man... Success story ??? Only 9 months together... they are only at the beginning... You are the success story... 5 year married to a young woman, child, rich... You are lucky, you are the exception who confirm the rule... not the usual ...
Bruno,
No one can predict the future for any relationship they are far too dynamic, my point is that relationships with large age differences can work as it is up th the couple to make their relationship work.
[/quote]No one try to say that it will not work. It can. But it is not normal.
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Normal? What's that? It isn't normal to marry a woman from the other side of the world either. My wife and I are closing in on our 6th anniversary of our wedding with a 25 year difference in our ages. What is real funny is that I have not personally witnessed a failed marriage where there was a great difference in ages between the RW and the AM. I have however, seen 4 or 5 blow apart where the age difference was insignificant. Makes you wanna go HMMMM.
KenC
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Normal is what accepted by majority of people and what you wish for your own kids. All others is "outlets" ( bad or good ) when "normal" doesn't work for one or another reason
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17 pages of this??? Sometimes it is best for one to see beyond the "normalicies" which they espouse. To circumscribe boundries on relationships, said boundries limited by your own limited and paltry life's experiences professess and displays a hugely pedestrian and parochial and limited regional life's experience. These words of "normaliciles" are the mouthings and non-profound thoughts of "intellectual hicks", moribund in their own life's quagmires--- who are so quick to expound upon their limited experience and wisdom upon others as if it is a sacred epistle or gospel. Poppycock. Proof? If their lives were happier and more meaningful...they would spend far less time posting their opinions on an internet messageboard everyday. At least one would conjecture that thought?
I sincerely wish you the best Ken C. These people know nothing except the limited narrowness in how they interpert life (how many years???)...which is, afterall what they have known in their own meager lives and are so quick to share their conclusions of their wisdom. Perhaps they could draw diagrams? Charts?
Laughter, Ken C is good therapy. You were fortunate to find an excellent wife. I suggest you have a good chuckle....and give your wife a hug. The difference is not so much in the years---it is moreso in the qualities of the person, X 2, Cheerio, Tim360
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17 pages of this??? Sometimes it is best for one to see beyond the "normalicies" which they espouse. To circumscribe boundries on relationships, said boundries limited by your own limited and paltry life's experiences professess and displays a hugely pedestrian and parochial and limited regional life's experience. These words of "normaliciles" are the mouthings and non-profound thoughts of "intellectual hicks", moribund in their own life's quagmires--- who are so quick to expound upon their limited experience and wisdom upon others as if it is a sacred epistle or gospel. Poppycock. Proof?
Oh such wisdom words from such open mind person who is such ready and willing to hear out opinions of others people:D
If their lives were happier and more meaningful...they would spend far less time posting their opinions on an internet messageboard everyday. At least one would conjecture that thought
Are you about KenC or about TigerPawn?:P
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Normal? What's that? It isn't normal to marry a woman from the other side of the world either.
With normal, they mean in the norm... like the majority... and interesting, when we think good, marry a foreign woman is not in the norm too...
Long time ago, people marry in the same village... with modern transport, people have marry in the same country... now, with fast transport and internet, people marry foreigner... yes, it is not already in the norm but it is growing...
And be positive, marry a foreign is very good... Biologist explain that so marriage allow new DNA in the communauty who make people more strong physicaly :shock::D...
The main point is that the communication and transport allow us to see more far that our little city... we have more choice... and i think that will be growing with the very long time... not because of agency but because of easy cheap travel ... people go meet each other during some holliday in foreign country... Russia is only starting know the benefice of tourist... and it is a wonderfull country to visit...
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a young person is not physically attracted to a old person. being a nice person is ok but it will not secure love. it 's too bad that life is such but it is.
many people find they are unhappy living in a foreign country. Reality and the imaginary image designed by Hollywood ant the same thing. The USA is plagued with the same problems as the rest of the world and in some ways more. A musical named " Chicago" Starring:
Catherine Zeta-Jones
Renee Zellweger
Richard Gere
Queen Latifah
John C. Reilly
Lucy Liu
Taye Diggs
Colm Feore
is a good example of the US I know.
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And interestingly enough, there are several on this cast who have married people who had a significant age difference. And I do not believe that economic factors were of the primary concern.
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Damn...I wasted 30 minutes reading this crap...good thing I am a fast reader! But at least I picked up a few "gems" so I will count the experience worthwhile... :)
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[user=17]TigerPaws[/user]
I am sorry Elen EVERYONE has a price and I mean EVERYONE, it might be more expensive for some than others but EVERYONE can be had for the right price.
At least you have the frankness to admit that you bought your wife. Exactly what I said: marriage prostitution.
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Coulter.
.. to the contrary..
I don't think Mrs. Tiger asked a price of Mr. Tiger for being his wife. Had she done so I think the price would be quite high and only then I might tend to agree with you.
A woman who does not 'sell' her services is not a prostitute.
Have you ever given a nice gift or money to a girlfriend/wife? Does that make her a prostitute? Does an engagement ring make her one?
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When the age difference is 15 - 18 years - there are many things to think about seriously... She is 25 and he is 40 - not too bad, but when she is 35 and he is 50+ - "Dear, let's out for dancing. No, baby, we'll stay at home and watch TV". The larger age difference they have - the more problems they will have in future.
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[user=17]TigerPaws[/user]EVERYONE has a price
How much do YOU cost, eh?
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Arrow, Do you think Tiger Paws bought his wife? Perhaps she bought him using her beauty and appeal as currency. Perhaps Tiger Paws is right that we all have a price. Some might be money, security and material possessions and others it might be a curvey figure and a great smile. Even the people who's main claim is that they are great people who are considerate, warm, and caring but not rich or handsome, couldn't that be considered a value item used to buy someone? Perhaps we do all have a price, just not what you think of when you first think about that statement.
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Arrow, Do you think Tiger Paws bought his wife? Perhaps she bought him using her beauty and appeal as currency. Perhaps Tiger Paws is right that we all have a price. Some might be money, security and material possessions and others it might be a curvey figure and a great smile. Even the people who's main claim is that they are great people who are considerate, warm, and caring but not rich or handsome, couldn't that be considered a value item used to buy someone? Perhaps we do all have a price, just not what you think of when you first think about that statement.
Yep, see like this, i have a price... for a RW marry me, i ask a lot of love... it is my price... and i reward her with the same love with some interest... :cool:
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EVERYONE has a price
[/quote]
How much do YOU cost, eh?
[/quote]We already asked - he refused to say.
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EVERYONE has a price
[/quote]
How much do YOU cost, eh?
[/quote]We already asked - he refused to say. [/quote]
And I already answered, what is being asked of me and what is being offered?
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Perhaps we do all have a price, just not what you think of when you first think about that statement.
Maybe I'll sound naive a little but not ALL on the Earth can be measured by money.
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That is what I mean arrow. Perhaps we all have a price but perhaps is is not money. If a beautiful girl with a sexy body and a great personality came along and we liked her and ended up with her, is she not in a way paying for what she thinks will be a happy life with her sexy body, with her beautiful face with her great personality. I don't think everyone can be purchased with money either.
My observation is that if there is a beautiful girl with a great figure and a nasty personality and she lives in the USA (there are many gals who are exactly that way) she will have no difficulty getting all the dates she wants and can treat the guys like sh*t. If she decides she wants to marry one of these stupid slobs who are falling all over her they will do it in a heartbeat. My point was cash is not the only currency.
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i've read enough of what elen posts that i stopped reading what she posts long ago, long before this silly thread. as leslie likes to say, stop feeding the trolls. say what you want elen, i do not care and won't read. you lost your credibility with me a long time ago. i think you are a hateful unhappy woman. you have nothing to offer this BB.
i was involved with a ukrainian lady who was 25, i'm 48. there was absolutely no problem with age. her previous boyfriend was a RM same age as me, and no, he was not rich and neither am i.
maybe it's my character they like? god, is THAT possible??
last 25 year old i met, i asked her why she replied to my profile.. she said she liked my appearance and my age was "perfect". i have dated or met quite a few ladies who had RM who were my age or close to it.
different strokes for different folks. this SHOULD be the end of story.
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That is what I mean arrow. Perhaps we all have a price but perhaps is is not money.
Thanks, Turboguy. If a man treats me with a respect - I appreciate that. But if he can let himself arise his voice at me when we are discussing something and having different points of view at the subject we are talking about and after that he tries to buy me something instead of saying "Natalya, I was wrong" I think, he wants "to buy" my good treatment to him (he redresses a wrong). I mean figuratively (allegorically), of course. Hope, you got what I meant.
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i've read enough of what elen posts that i stopped reading what she posts long ago, long before this silly thread. as leslie likes to say, stop feeding the trolls. say what you want elen, i do not care and won't read. you lost your credibility with me a long time ago. i think you are a hateful unhappy woman. you have nothing to offer this BB.
[/font] I want to say that I stoped to post at this tread about 2 weeks and 15 posts ago and you still can't calm down. Though you may keep post what you want as well You even may take some lessons from Leslie's knowledge in Russian "naive" lexicon. It would be certaimly a good offer to this board
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Hello again Arrow! I understand and I agree. I think we all say something sometime that others would take to be stupid. We also say things that have a lot of logic in them but may be different than what other readers believe.
I think it is better when everyone can present their view and respect the rights of others to have different opinions. I think too that it is better if we have to attack to attack the ideas and not the person. So anyway, yes, I got what you meant.
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[user=54]Turboguy[/user], when you communicate with people the main important thing is - to respect another opinion and accept it without any kind of offense. "Things have gender, people have sex (male, female)" :) Men and women think differently - that's why it's always interesting to talk to opposite sex and know what they think. :)
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elen, your post makes no sense whatsoever. you say you stopped posting 2 weeks ago and 15 posts? you post here more recently and often thanyone else.. niave? i have far more experience than 80% of the posters here. your reply just illustrates how unhappy and hateful you are. i can't calm down? lol whoever said i was excited? the post i made above is the first time i ever said a word about you.
this is the last i will ever ackowledge anything you post. waste your time all you want. you have a chip on your shoulder, a grudge against just about everyone here. if i had my way, you'd get banned.
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Ah how touge:D. Я плакаль
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Sense today is my wifes birthday as well as the 5th anniversary of her arriving in America and we have a 19 year age difference I thought I would say that things between us have never been better. Sure there were some diffcult times for the first couple of years but we worked through those together and our relationship is stronger because of it.
There are many nay-sayers but we are proof positive that with a bit of work, a lot of love and a whole lot of understnding most anyone can work out their differences and have a happy relationship.
Anyway just my 2c worth before we head off later today to our home in Antiqua for a week.
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I would say a mature woman of 30 could easily have a successful relation with a youthful man of 50 if they are willing to make a go of it.
My friend got married at the age of 31 and his wife was 48. They have been happily married since 1985. He was a mature 31 and she was 48 but looked and acted 31.
Marriage should be a union of two people not two age groups.
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Whew! I am so glad that Clyde has given his approval. I thought I would have to give Lena the boot after six years!
a relieved KenC
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I don't approve Ken, start the divorce action immediately.
Personally I think the individuals involved are going to be a much more important factor than the number of summers someone has experieced. I rarely ever got serious about American women that we much less than 20 years younger than me, no sense starting that with the FSU women.
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Turbo,
What I always find ironic when I receive criticism about our age differences, is that I didn't seek out a woman so young. I actually would have (and still would) preferred a woman older than Lena. We just happened to fall in love with each other. We didn't exclude each other because of the age difference. I would have preferred to fall in love with a woman 10-15 years older but one does not always have that kind of control.
KenC
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I can relate to that Ken. My primary target was to find a gal older than the one I found too. Sometimes things just happen.
I was actaully in the engaged catagory without even knowing how old my gal was. I never asked and she never told me. The first I knew her age was when she sent me the 325 form for our visa. I had guessed she was within a year of what she turned out to be. Actually I was falling in love with her before I even saw a photo or knew her age. She was sending me instant messages on her cell phone and I was getting hooked on her personality, thoughts, sense of humor and ideas about life and things. I had made up my mind I wanted to visit her but had not bought the tickets yet when she got a friend to e-mail me some photos. Once I saw the photos I couldn't wait for the visit. Once I made the visit I was totally hooked.
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PS. Ken, I have a bigger age difference than you do and I still don't think that matters.
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Same here Ken. I put a self imposed 12 year maximum age difference on the women I was seeing. The first ladies I met were 10-12 years younger. It did not take long to realize that on average most Russian women had a few years maturity on her American counterpart, such as a Russian woman of 24 or 25 being at about the maturity level of an American woman 27 or 28 (and don't even talk about the overall difference in appearance!).
So before long I had extended by self imposed maximum age difference to 15 years.
Although I cannot say this to newby's and men with little experience, with men who have met several Russian women I can honestly say to them, and do, "When you meet her, you will know it".
When I met her she happened to be 20 years younger. Do I recommend men to seek ladies who are 20 years younger than themselves? No, and the reason is that successful marriages with this many years age difference are the exception, not the norm. It takes two special individuals to make such relationships work.
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I can second what you said about when you meet her you will know. I have met a lot of Russian gals. I met ones that were nice and I enjoyed their company. I met ones that were very beautiful and I could have spent a lot of time admiring them. I met ones that were sexy and definately were desirable gals. I met some that would have meshed well with my life style.
When I met Luda is just sort of seemed that we were perfect for each other. It just seemed right. That does not mean that she can't drive me crazy sometimes with her hard head and unique way of looking at life. She is not perfect, but neither am I. I can't predict the future, but I would not want to be thinking about a future without her.
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И жили они долго и счастливо, и умерли в один:shock: день:?
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That's funny Elen!!!!
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It's not me:D it's the end of all our fairy tales:D
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Gee Ken what are you reading in my statement?
It was not directed at anyone specific.
I have a 20 year difference with my lady.
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I simply don't accept that you can put some arbitrary age restriction and say 12.25 years is acceptable but 12.26 is not.
I am 46 and I have young children, 3 of them to be specific. The OLDEST is not yet 10. Most women even 10 years younger than me have either grown children or children in there late teens. The percentage of them who want to be actively involved in raising children again is pretty small. I have a LOT more in common with a woman who has a 6 year old than one who has an 18 year old (or older) that woman and I are at RADICALLY different places in life.
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I agree with you totally. Of course I have to say that. My kids are older than my fiancee. I think everyone is different in their needs and the way they are. I think too that a lot of FSU gals are much more mature than American gals the same age.
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Turboguy,
Good luck, long term. I think you are kidding yourself, but good luck anyway.
You seem to have allied yourself with the thinking of TigerPaws, he is so wrong. I will be around when the empire falls apart. All the Pre-nupt's in the world won't help you when the judge rules it's not in the interest of the vows of marriage, she's too young, too uneducated, and hasn't the English skills to descern the subtle differences in a legal document like this. You just don't know what awaits you while you think you are so safe.
Better move to a "community property state", establish residence. and declare pre-maritial property. That way you can protect pre-marriage property.
My kids are older than my fiancee.
God~! How sick is this?
Some of these guys are so out of touch, I hope the newbie is smart enough to figure this stuff out.
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Amen to that..... Life is a LOT more difficult there than it is here. Women have to put up with things that most americans cant even concieve of. Huge disparity in pay, sexual harassment that goes far beyond what is defined as harassment in the US. A system of justice that doesnt enforce child support. They often are litterally fending for themselves, by themselves. This makes them very strong, self relient and they dont have time to feel sorry for themselves.
Inspite of all of this, they remain wonderful, feminine, giving, caring women. The good ones (non scamers) just want to love and be loved by a good man. Imagine that!
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Hi JB,
We shall see. I think any realtionship like we do has a risk of falure. Frankly I don't think my gal has much of an idea how much I do or don't have. She knows I have a business but not much more. I am sure with me running over every 6 weeks she knows I am not the poorest guy around, but I don't think it is a case of me having bought her.
As far as the pre-nup goes. Originally I was one of those romantic types and did not want one myself. It is something I am going to do and going to try to do properly but preserving my assets is not something that is that big a deal for me. It is only money. I am not worried abot feeling safe. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it but am happy where I live.
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Turboguy,
Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea to keep the FSU woman in the dark about assets. You say she has no idea as to what you have, or don't have. I suspect it would be a perfect reason to throw a pre-nupt out the window if you decieve her up front. A wife has the right to know, and should know, exactly what she's getting into. Don't lie about this.
Your lawyer should advise you on this, if he has advised you to lie, I'd fire him in a heartbeat.
We have already figured out TigerPaws, don't fall into the same trap.
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Thanks JB. I appreciate the comments and suggestions. No, I am not going to hide anything from her. She doesn't seem to have much interest in what I have and It has never come up. I would not hide things from her. Actually there are some things I wan't to talk with her about on this subject when I see her next week.
Actually I am going to have to find a new lawyer to do the pre-nup. Mine does not do family law.
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Turbo,
Then she is just "unexposed", probably has no idea of what she's getting into. But that's no excuse to take advantage of her.
Please explain it all to her before the "I do's".
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Turbo, what is the age difference, not sure, something like 35 years, is that right?
And I thought I discovered the fountain of youth.
Here is the way I look at it. Those are a lot of years. For the marriage to last five years I think has about a 2% chance. But if it last 1 year, if it last 2 years and they were good years, then who is to say it was not worth it.
Look, if we live to be 60, or 70 or 80 years of age in the grand scheme of things we are here for a very short time. If you or any person can get 1, 2, 3 good years with someone in your life, so be it. If you can get 5, 10 years, even better.
I think the adds are really against you with so many years but if you get one, two good years, then you can laugh at your critics, although I think it is all of our goals to try to build a lasting relationship. And I will say again as I have said before, if my marriage of over 5 years ends next week, they were the best damned five years I had and I would do it again in a heart beat.
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Thank you JB, I will, I don't plan on keeping her in the dark. I don't have enough liquid assets to hide anything offshore or onshore. I have assets but they are mostly in my business and some real estate. She is going to be helping out some in my business if she wants to so she will have a perfectly good idea of everything before she takes any big plunges. I am a very above board guy.
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Yep, right on Jack. People can be the same age and still not work out. My whole life I have dated gals 20 and 30 years younger and never had the age diffence seem to have much effect. If it works fine. If it doesn't well that is the breaks of the game.
There are things that bother me but the age difference is not one of them.
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as far as pre-nupts go, you have to be sure the lady has her own lawyer, that there is a certified tranlator involved and her lawyer will be sure she understands whatever she is signing. if you use your lawyer as her lawyer "poof", down the drain your pre-nupt goes, it's a conflict of interest.
while any contract can be challenged in court, if she has her own attorney, preferably one fluent in russian and english, and it can be proven she understood what she was signing, then it makes it a very difficult challenge.
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anono.. go get m@rr!ed! :)
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Thank you for the advice Anono. I think a Russian speaking lawyer might be hard to find around here but I should be able to find a translator and will make sure she understands what she is signing.
BC is right, good luck on finding the right woman. We want to see you here posting visa and prenup questions.
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i'm working on it! ;-)
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I don't really think my gal thinks too much about money or is too money oriented. I had been talking about working on my house and putting in a new bathroom. Today she basically asked me if I owned the house I was working on or rented it. Actually how she worded it was "Is it your house you work on or is it your masters?" I thought her choice of vocabulary was funny. I should have written back and said I don't have a master but that will change when we get married.
One of the many things that conviced me that my gal was not too money oriented or out to see what she could get is one time towards the end of my first trip we had been running around and she was dropping me off and going home in the cab that we had come back from dinner in. I asked her how much she needed for the cab and she said she did not know. I handed her 500 roubles and she looked at it for a second and handed it back and said, that is too much, give me 200.
I really don't think she has much idea what I have or don't have and I don't really think she cares. I have tried to tell her some but I think money issues are so different there that it goes right over her head.
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Turbo
Is Jack onto something here? 35+ years?? Are you really that much older than her?
I guess I'm just too old fashioned.
Down here in Texas we'd call you a sex offender and make you drive around with pink license plates.
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Just 35 years, jb. Well maybe 35 years, three months and 20 days if you want to get technical. Gosh, I am gonna be in real trouble jb. Luda and I are going to be in Texas about the middle of August. Darn, I wonder if they will let me keep my laptop in my cell so i can keep up with all the great posts by jb.
Well do I get to pick my shade of pink so the plates can match Luda's lipstick or something.
It could be worse jb. Last year at the European Connections social in Moscow the one gal who approached me was 16. Believe it or not I actually told her I though I was too old for her.
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you are a sick person, turbo...
Have you considered professional help?
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My ex wife thinks that too.
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My ex wife thinks that too.Â
Hey! Be careful what you say about your ex-wife! I learned that my ex-wife reads the board and has been culling posts of mine to use in court against me :dude:
Can't you see me trembling ;)
- Dan
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I'd be flattered if I thought my ex-wife ever gave me a second thought.
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I am safe, my ex-wife does not use the internet at all. We get along fine and I want to keep it that way. I have to admit if I am crossing a busy street and I see her driving towards me, I wait till she passes to walk out into the street.
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I am safe, my ex-wife does not use the internet at all. We get along fine and I want to keep it that way. I have to admit if I am crossing a busy street and I see her driving towards me, I wait till she passes to walk out into the street.
LoL,
My ex and I get along just fine as long as we are seperated by several thousand miles, in order to keep her from bothering us I have had to go as far as having a secure telephone system, you need to know a PIN number in order for the call to go through.
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The scary part is when I bring Luda back to the USA on August 2nd, assuming all goes well, we are moving into a different house and will be a two minute walk from where my ex lives. The phone number is unlisted, but not as secure as yours. Hummm, I might like to get some info on something like that.
The good part is the house we are moving into in August is going up for sale in the Spring and once Luda gets her tastes adaped to the USA the plan is to build a new home in the spring which will be far away from the ex
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A return to the topic.
Age difference,,,, I've been going to Russia for 25 years and I've talked to a lot of Russians. I think I can safely say the question of age in relationships goes in one of several ways:
Young, very pretty women, never married, no children, well adjusted mentally, of average to medium income, and well educated.... These women want a husband 4-7 years older.
Young, very pretty women, once married, no children, well adjusted mentally, of average to medium income, and well educated.... These women want a new husband 7-10 years older.
Young, very pretty women, once married, with children, not well adjusted mentally, of less than average income, and average educatation.... These women want a new husband 10-11 years older.
Young, very pretty women, previously married, with children, not well adjusted mentally, of less than average income, and not well educated.... These women want the next husband 12-15 years older.
Young, semi-pretty women, prior marriages, with children, poorly adjusted mentally, of much less than average income, and without much education at all.... These women want any husband 15-20 years older.
No longer young, semi-pretty women, prior marriages, with children, poorly adjusted mentally, flat broke, and without much going for her at all.... These women want a husband of any age, has a pulse, and his breath can make a mirror fog on a cold day is enough.
There are a million sets of "in-betweens", and you can substitute gender, age, income, and education to suit the man's side for looking for a huge age difference to get a better understanding. The point of the matter is to look clearly at the reasons why a May/December relationship is happening in the first place; somebody in the relational is probably dysfunctional, it may also be that there are two very dysfunctional parties involved.
There are, of course, exceptions,,,for example, very comfortably well off (rich) older men can charm a very pretty young woman, and hope for a 3-5 year happy deal. The same thing can happen and actual love can grow from the seeds planted is such aridly thin soil. But if average the 40-50 y.o. joe-sixpac thinks he can stumble up on real love in a week with a young, tender, very pretty girl with a solid education and above average intelligence, he's pissin' into the wind. He's gonna wind up, nine times out of ten, with a woman no one else can live with for a whole bunch of reasons.
Some of you guys need to learn to look before you leap.
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Clap, clap, clap!:)
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There are, of course, exceptions,,,for example, very comfortably well off (rich) older men can charm a very pretty young woman, and hope for a 3-5 year happy deal. The same thing can happen and actual love can grow from the seeds planted is such aridly thin soil. But if average the 40-50 y.o. joe-sixpac thinks he can stumble up on real love in a week with a young, tender, very pretty girl with a solid education and above average intelligence, he's pissin' into the wind. He's gonna wind up, nine times out of ten, with a woman no one else can live with for a whole bunch of reasons.
Some of you guys need to learn to look before you leap.
While I generally agree with the majority of your post, I take exception with the highlighted statement above, my wife and I have been married for 5 years now, the relationship between my wife and I is better than ever. Additionally I know several men like myself who have married Russian girls (at least 15 years younger and extremily attractive) who have been married for 3, 4 and in one case 7 years, all are doing very well.
Now I will agree that the Joe Sixpac type who makes under 50 grand a year, who loves to sit in front of the TV shouting at some sports event, who's idea of a good time is to have a case of beer with the boys is going to fail and fail miserably. Then again most of the Joe Sixpac types are loosers anyway, I am just sorry for the lady from the FSU they attract.
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Andrewfi wrote: Clap, clap, clap!:)
Gee whiz, Andrew, what part did you like?
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jb,
Before andrewfin replies, I just gotta ask:
Since my wife is 12 years 8 months younger than me,
is she really "not well-adjusted mentally"? ROTF!
Now what's the difference between "not well adjusted
mentally" and "poorly adjusted mentally"? I know they're
generalizations, but the wording struck me as odd.
Vaughn
Whoa! I get it. She's well-adjusted mentally,
but got stuck with an older guy. And so it goes.
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Vaughn,
The post was designed to make people think, not dictate what to do. Personally, I don't think a 12 year age difference is all that bad, I enjoy such a difference with my wife. But we are both older. It is a big deal if she is 20, and not a big deal if she is 35 or 40. I've said this a million times, age difference is relative, but I doubt anyone heard that part.
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jb,
My post was tongue-in-cheek, and
I realize your post was not gospel.
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TPaws,
You ain't even in the same group, besides, you have your pre-nup in place to save/protect your marriage. That young hottie you are married to is no more gonna dump you, or leave you, for hell nor high water, I could more easily jump over the the moon. She's waiting for you to croak so she can collect the big prize, she's prolly screwing you 5 times a week and feeding you well marbled steaks with enough cholesterol on the odd days to hasten to your departure with hardened artieries. Get over yourself.
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jb,
Having regular love making sessions is good for man's health!;) (and so is greasy food :D) BTW, 19 years difference is only slightly larger than 12 years. :?
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Honestly, I don't think age difference matters as long as both people are in agreement. If the woman marries for money and security, who cares? As long as her husband is happy and she is happy with the arrangement, that's what matters. Now, if she gets married, gets her greencard and then dumps the husband, that is bad.
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Personally I think there are tons of factors that make a happy marriage. I think if it boils down to anything it is if the person makes his spouse happy. I think if someone treats their mate well, pays attention to them, takes an interest in them, makes them feel special, helps them when they can, listens to thier problems, finds things they can enjoy together and shares their life that age it not going to be that big of a deal.
I am not saying if the young bride is a party animal who what to go bar hopping every night and participate in exteame sports and the older guy wants to sit in the rocking chair with a shawl over his lap and watch the robins feed that it is going to work. Of course it won't.
I probably have the widest age range of most anyone and have been involved with a lot of much younger women and never found age difference an issue.
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Turboguy, it's probably because you are young at heart! I have a work colleague who is only 33, but he talks and acts like a 60 year old man. Boring, boring, boring. I think it is important for husband and wife to be best friends. When you fee like you can tell your partner anything and he or she will still love and support you, its great. I never had anything like that before I met Mark, and I am just loving the fact that he is my best friend.
Now, rocking chair is not so bad after all. I love them (haven't got one though). This is my idea of a perfect winter evening - sitting in the rocking chair with a shawl over my lap, next to the open fire, with a glass of red wine, with classic music on and an interesting book to read....Bliss...
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Mark's idea of a perfect Winter evening maybe sitting in that rocking chair with M&M on his lap wearing only a shawl, forget the book and then ..... Bliss..... :cool:
Sorry I couldn't resist the tease
Maxx
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Maxx,
I don't even want to go there. Something tells me that Mark's idea of a perfect evening wouldn't involve any clothes (even shawl) and the rocking chair would be used inappropriately! :shock:
Nice to see that you are perked up, Maxx! :D
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There's an inappropriate use for a rocking chair? :D
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[user=300]M&M[/user] wrote:
Maxx,
I don't even want to go there. Something tells me that Mark's idea of a perfect evening wouldn't involve any clothes (even shawl) and the rocking chair would be used inappropriately! :shock:
Nice to see that you are perked up, Maxx! :D
Actually you more accurately stated what I meant to say.....
"perked up" Yes. but I found it is dangerous for me. I usually end up offending someone with my mischevious humor. Then when I am serious I offend everyone. :D
Maxx
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Elena Petrova with Elena's Models also thought that most young women don't even consider men under 25 as possible marriage partners. They seek men who are OLDER. And here she observed the following the statistics loophole:
-- Very young girls of 18-25 seek men 25-45.
-- Girls 25-30 seek men 25-45.
-- Women 30-35 seek men 30-45.
-- Women 35-40 seek men 30-45.
-- Women 40-45 seek men 35-50.
She concluded that MOST WOMEN SEEK MEN 30-45.
FWIW…
E
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I've read somewhere that to get the ideal age difference between man and a woman you need to divide man's age by half and add seven years. For example, for a 42 years old man the ideal partner would be aged 42/2+7=28 years. I am pleased to say that Mark and I fall into this ideal category!:D
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[user=300]M&M[/user] wrote:
I've read somewhere that to get the ideal age difference between man and a woman you need to divide man's age by half and add seven years. For example, for a 42 years old man the ideal partner would be aged 42/2+7=28 years. I am pleased to say that Mark and I fall into this ideal category!:D
Yep, maybe right formule now... but in 20 year, with the same formule, you will be 10 year too much old for him... ;)
I think that the perfect age is not count in year... two people with the same maturity go good together... and some people say that RW reach a high maturity enough early...
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I think divide by half and subtract something is better.
I am happy that I decided to go for an older woman. The gal I was pretty serious about before my fiance was 22 so now I have an older woman and it works out much better.
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Because it was your own statement that EVERYBODY has his price. May be I shall feel more respect to you if I know out your price:P:P
As I said a price for what, everything depends on what someone is being asked to do? When I was being interviewed for my security clearence many years ago I was asked by the review board if I would ever sell secrets to a foreign power. My answer was maybe, it all depended on what I was being asked to reveal but I assured the panel that the price would be extreme, enough for me to retire comfortably forever in a lifestyle few ever imagine.
The review board thanked me for my honesty and granted me my security clearance.
I was wondering how the hell a retired General could afford that kind of lifestyle!!...lol
[/quote]
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Turbo, I think the largest age gap I have seen is 37 years. Sounds like you may have exceeded. If both parties are happy, why not?
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I think maturity level must enter into the equation.
If the girl is 24 and behaves like a 36 year old woman this is ok.
If the man is 45 and acts like he is 14, this is not so good.
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My gal is 16 years younger than me. We visited her English tutor and this women showed us an album. Most of her students are girls who want to marry foreigners. Almost every one of these girls was 14 or 15 years younger than her husband. This 65 year old woman considered that to be a good match, in other words I think she advised the girls to seek men with this much age difference.
Possibly this has something to do with the culture of south central Ukraine.
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My gal is 16 years younger than me. We visited her English tutor and this women showed us an album. Most of her students are girls who want to marry foreigners. Almost every one of these girls was 14 or 15 years younger than her husband. This 65 year old woman considered that to be a good match, in other words I think she advised the girls to seek men with this much age difference.
Possibly this has something to do with the culture of south central Ukraine.
Not really something to do with culture... since the middle age for dead in ex-USSR is around 54 year for man, marry a very older man in ex-USSR will lead to a lot of widow...
But these FSU woman know that man life more long in our country... that a man from 35 year old and up have already build a career and is enough secure for a foreign marriage and build a family... So, marry a western man more old allow security and since Western man life more long and are more healthy that russian one, this is not a real problem...
A man up 50 year old is always able to make children... and same in case of little problem, a western man is able to pay viagra... more old mean more money, a house, a car, good education for children...
Of course, if they can find a young rich western man, they choose him... but several older western man who search foreign woman are usually in good shape... i have already see here photo from some over 50 year old and i can say they they look almost like young casanova... by example, when i see Turboguy, with his baby face, it is difficult to believe he is a older one...
It is more a culture of foreign dating... not a local culture...
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post deleted. Seekandfind please stop these personal attacks.
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Damn~! I missed another one. :(
itstime, you know nothing of which you speak. You should not believe for one moment that young women in Ukraine, or any other part of the FSU for that matter, are culturally attracted to much older men. They aren't wired that way any more than a young woman from Kansas.
Please refrain from posting BS.
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dang! me too! i wish trhe moderator wasn't so fast so i could read what the hell is going on...lol
you know me, i don't want to be left out on all the fun!:cool:
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dang! me too! i wish trhe moderator wasn't so fast so i could read what the hell is going on...lol
I have miss it too :( ... but i don't worry, i am sure that other attack will come :( ... but really, i don't care about it so much :P ... i begin have some experience in these domain too and i have learn to control myself better :cool:
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itstime, you know nothing of which you speak. You should not believe for one moment that young women in Ukraine, or any other part of the FSU for that matter, are culturally attracted to much older men. They aren't wired that way any more than a young woman from Kansas.
Please refrain from posting BS.
jb, I am not posting BS. And I never said that young women in Ukraine are culturally attracted to older men. If you want to read what I did say, the unedited post is still up there.
I don't think that women make decisions about spouses or sexual partners in the same way that men do. For one, they look for a man who they feel safe an comfortable with, so they can relax and let go, submit. This is an emotional decision, not a question of physical lust. In Ukraine there seems to be less social pressure on women to choose socially acceptable men.
For instance in the USA it is harder for a young woman to choose an older man because her friends, family and even strangers will all pressure her against this. This external pressure makes it hard for her to feel safe and comfortable with such a decision. I was pointing out that in the Ukraine there is at least one "mentor" of young women who "encourages" them to choose older men.
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In Ukraine there seems to be less social pressure on women to choose socially acceptable men.
Rethink this statement, if you will. You are discounting a couple of important points.
The RWGN (Russian Woman's Gossip Network) -- Where 'information' passed from woman to woman must have more truth than from any other source. Even after you have researched something, and sent a RW articles, photographs, and numerous other sources that something is (or is not) true, when she arrives in the US she will still look for the green spaghetti hanging from all the trees that her friend Olga insisted was there.
Much more "social pressure" is exerted on RW, from more sources, than their AW counterparts feel. RW tend to have closer ties to family and friends, and tend to more closely follow cultural traditions (superstitions). There is usually more interdependence in RW families. For AW, the tendencies are towards independence, with more concern over themselves and what they can obtain. If there is any social pressure, it is self inflicted, meeting the pop culture media demands, not those of other people.
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Connor - Agree 100% about the Babushka network as Ken has termed it or the RWGN carrying too much weight. I can not get my MIL to visit because of the Babushka network. She will not come here until her other daughter gets a visa to work next summer because she listens to the Babushka network. Her other daughter already worked in the USA during a summer and returned to Russia. Its the daughters last chance as a student to work as a camp counselor etc. Why should one student working visa have anything to do with the other MIL visiting visa - Babushka network says so.
After WWII there was an extreme shortage of men in many regions of Russia. For that reason many women married men much older than them. Many families have this history and know how happy their grandmothers were with their older husbands. Their fathers and mothers often were products of a young mother and older father despite being close in age themselves - and have fond memories of both of their parents. That history helps families understand how a younger woman married to "an older" WM could indeed work.
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Personnally I think in many cultures including the USA there is a segment of the female population that is attracted to older men. I think there is also a segment that is attracted to men who beat them. There is a segment that are attracted to ethnic differences. There is a segment that is attracted to men who are dangerous. Perhaps those are just all subsets for women who are wacky. Perhaps it is caused by something else.
I can think back to the 21 year old gal I lived with for 4 years when I was 45. I never heard her call a guy handsome who did not have grey hair and a few wrinkles. Actaully she wanted me to dye my hair grey bacause I did not have any grey hair. A few more years with her and I would have had plenty.
Back to the subject at hand. I don't think it is so much that FSU women are "attracted" to older men. I think they are looking for security and reliability and perhaps don't look at the difference as being as repulsive as some american girls might.
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I agree with what Turbo wrote:
I don't think it is so much that FSU women are "attracted" to older men. I think they are looking for security and reliability and perhaps don't look at the difference as being as repulsive as some american girls might.
I think in their minds that older equates to stability. I don't think that RW are necessarily attracted to older guys as that they are just not as opposed to it as AW. My in laws were even very much in favor of our relationship and eventual marriage. My MIL is only a few years older than I am. She always thought that Lena needed to be with an older guy. I am just thankful that Lena has never seen our age difference as a negative.
KenC
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Luda and I have a bigger age difference than most anyone and Luda's comment was that she does not notice it. It does bother her a bit that it seems to bother other people.
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I still stay with my opinion - have not idea what young girls are thinking about in such marriages but males for sure think only about themslves :? as if they are going to have a life ( and mind you life with any old men's "problems") for centures
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My estranged RW and I had a 21 year age difference. I did not think anything of it since I had dated many younger American women, I am very successful and outgoing, and I look much younger than I am.
Unbeknownst to me at the time, she had at least 4 affairs while we were engaged probably becoming pregnant at least once by one of the interlopers.
All throughout the marriage, she would not let me hold her hand or show affection in public. She would make it known that she wanted to move out even to casual strangers.
Eventually, she refused to have sex with me at all.
While we were married, a Russian friend even set her up on a blind date with another man. Around the time I finally served her with annulment papers, she was having an affair with a kid even younger, which I confirmed when she received a Lovers Lane summons by a suburban NY Police Department, because she and he were having sex in my car.
I am thinking of commissioning a study on age differences in marriage, to see where the drop off is.
To others who comtemplate marriage to someone 20 years younger or more, I am interested in knowing how many of you have stayed married 5 years or more.
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Damn, I have been avoiding this thread like the plague!!!
Anybody who reads the other board knows how I feel about this topic but for those who don't here goes nothin'...
Ken you know I have met your wife & I think she is a great lady & I hope things continue to go the way they have for you & her. That being said however, let us not lead the newbies astray. You got lucky my friend, very lucky. Most marriages in your age difference group & at the age you met, don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of making it, you know it & I know it.
Women are women no matter where they are from or where they are going & given a prefference they wan't a man no more than ten years their senior. At least until they hit thirty, then they are willing to widen that gap some & even stretch it some more if the guy is a pretty decent catch.
Most women & I do mean most under the age of 25 are not ready for marriage & a lifelong commitment to any man, even one their own age. 99.9% of all divorces & crash & burns I have read about or are personally aquainted with happen with women under 25, no matter how old the guy is. From 25 to thirty you got a pretty good chance of holding it together if she has a kid already or you are under 40 & can give her one pronto. Over thirty you got a much more secure & soffisticated woman that has matured & knows what she wants out of life. Chances of her sticking around are much greater than the other younger groups.
Any guy who is over 50 & comes to Russia looking for a 20 year old, in my opinion, needs his head examined. There is a 1 in a million chance that such a relationship will work. Not only does she have to face your family & they will think of her as a girl & not a women. Your own children will likely be older than her, which makes for great fun when your daughter has to babysit your wife when you go out with the boys on a Friday night. But consider the long term.
Your 50, she's 20, now jump ahead your 70 & she is 40 in the prime of her life. You, you old fart have to down an entire bottle of viagra just to get it up & she is in her sexual prime. How long do you think she is going to put up with that? Fast forward, you are 80, she is 50 & totally ticked because you got one foot in the grave & the other on a banana peel & she is stuck raising the kids that you promised you would help with. Its a lose lose situation & not worth taking the chance that 'it just might work'.
Ken & a very few others have gotten very lucky to find that 1 in one million women that is mature enough at a young age to deal with what is coming. But believe me when I tell you, its a crap shoot & unless you can read people very well or are willing to take a risk with the rest of your life, don't fall for the agency hype that says you can get any woman you want, because you can't & thats a fact!!! You want a real woman then date over thirty, they are still very sexy & very much all woman.
My wife & I have a 17 year difference in our ages but she was over thirty when we met & still is, LOL. But I'd bet my last dollar she is more woman than most women 10 years her junior.
RVR
Canadian Cowboy
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17 year difference here. Much more than that would really scare the bejeezers outa me.
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My wife & I have a 17 year difference in our ages but she was over thirty when we met & still is, LOL. But I'd bet my last dollar she is more woman than most women 10 years her junior.
I agree with you. And one of the reasons the guy needs his head examined is sex. I have had sex with young women like that and they don't know what the hell they are doing. And they don't appreciate what you are doing for them. Give me an older woman who has more experience and who is more appreciative as well.
My fiancee is just over 30 and we have a 16 year difference. She has a 15yo kid who will stay in Ukraine with grandparents to complete a local education. A woman over 30 who is looking for a western man knows she has one last chance at a family. So it makes sense that she will choose a man who has experience raising kids and can demonstrate the results. It makes sense that she will choose an older man who is less likely to run after other women because he is more likely to be done with sowing wild oats.
But those really young women aren't really CHOOSING older husbands because they don't have the life experience to make real choices. They are more likely just going with the flow, and when the currents shift, they will move on.
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Canadian Cowboy,
We have a 19 year age difference and passed the 5 year mark together and are still going strong also I know of many other couples with a similar age difference and they are doing very well.
It is all about the choices a man makes.
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Ken you know I have met your wife & I think she is a great lady & I hope things continue to go the way they have for you & her. That being said however, let us not lead the newbies astray. You got lucky my friend, very lucky. Most marriages in your age difference group & at the age you met, don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of making it, you know it & I know it.
Richard,
I never said that she might have been dropped on her head as a child. :D But is has worked well for over 6 years now.
KenC
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richard, we met so you know me a little. i just printed out your post so i can read it and discuss it with the lady i am going back to see in three weeks. we have a 27 year age difference and this is the number one thing on my mind when i think about moving forward with this lady. what the hell is she going to do when i am 69 and she is 42?
this lady, as far as i can see and i have a very jaundiced eye, is not spoiled, she is sincere and seems, from all indications, to be the real thing. it could be one of the one in a million but dang! it is a crap shoot no matter what the age difference. it does add to the odds being against us.
if there is a reason not to go forward with this lady, this is the reason.
with your post, i will be able to bring it up from a third party point of view of a AM who lives in russia and has the experience to go with it.
fortunately, i do have the time (hardly the money but i'll manage) to spend a good deal of time with her in ukraine.
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point of view of a AM who lives in russia
That would be CM my friend, don't confuse me with the riff raff, LMAO.
I never said that she might have been dropped on her head as a child.
I never said that either, Ken. But you still got lucky;)
It is all about the choices a man makes.
You too are a lucky man but believe me it has nothing to do with the choices you made. It has everything to do with the choices & sacrifices she made.
She stepped out of her own per group to be with you. She probably lost some friends & family over it. She also quite likely stands up to much ridicule on an almost daily basis. If not spoken, silently acknowledge, a look, a stare. It is not easy for a young woman to be with a man old enough to be her father. The fact that she is & has been for some time testifies to the strength of her character & her solid commitment to you.
I ain't saying I wouldn't have liked a younger woman. Hell I dated an 18 year old in SPB when I was 49 & she would have married me in a heartbeat. I ain't saying it wasn't fun, it was a blast & I enjoyed her company immensly but in the end all it was was an ego trip. My ego trip to have that hot young tight body hanging all over me. I could have made it last for probably 10 maybe 15 years but after that it would have gotten real hard to hold on to her. I damn near did go for it, but then I woke up & thought of the future & that scared me to death.
By the way itstime - she was good in bed, no doubt about that & a very quick learner!!!;)
In a way I envy those who can make it work with a large age difference & a young hotty but like I said it don't happen all that often. When it comes right down to it I don't regret the choice I made, I have a friend, a partner, a wife, a lover & a concubine all rolled in to one. I still maintain that women over thirty are more mature & able to make a more informed decision on there choices in life.
What more can a guy ask for?:)
RVR
Canadian Cowboy
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It is all about the choices a man makes.
You too are a lucky man but believe me it has nothing to do with the choices you made. It has everything to do with the choices & sacrifices she made.
She stepped out of her own per group to be with you. She probably lost some friends & family over it. She also quite likely stands up to much ridicule on an almost daily basis. If not spoken, silently acknowledge, a look, a stare. It is not easy for a young woman to be with a man old enough to be her father. The fact that she is & has been for some time testifies to the strength of her character & her solid commitment to you.
I ain't saying I wouldn't have liked a younger woman. Hell I dated an 18 year old in SPB when I was 49 & she would have married me in a heartbeat. I ain't saying it wasn't fun, it was a blast & I enjoyed her company immensly but in the end all it was was an ego trip. My ego trip to have that hot young tight body hanging all over me. I could have made it last for probably 10 maybe 15 years but after that it would have gotten real hard to hold on to her. I damn near did go for it, but then I woke up & thought of the future & that scared me to death.
By the way itstime - she was good in bed, no doubt about that & a very quick learner!!!;)
In a way I envy those who can make it work with a large age difference & a young hotty but like I said it don't happen all that often. When it comes right down to it I don't regret the choice I made, I have a friend, a partner, a wife, a lover & a concubine all rolled in to one. I still maintain that women over thirty are more mature & able to make a more informed decision on there choices in life.
What more can a guy ask for?:)
RVR
Canadian Cowboy
[/quote]
Rvrwind
Luck has very little to do with making a good selection of the availabe ladies, I passed up a number of girls who most likely would have made excellent wifes and partners because for whatever reason something just did not feel right.
I will agree that up to a point age dose factor into the equation but in the end I place the burden on the man to make the relationship work. As for your comment "It has everything to do with the choices & sacrifices she made.
She stepped out of her own per group to be with you. She probably lost some friends & family over it. She also quite likely stands up to much ridicule on an almost daily basis. If not spoken, silently acknowledge, a look, a stare. It is not easy for a young woman to be with a man old enough to be her father."
I very much disagree with your assessment, my ladies sister still lives in Moscow and is finishing up her degree at the university, besides being very attractive and 26 she is with a gentleman 18 years her senior by her choice as are many of the girls she knows. Here is Florida there is no such animosity among our circle of friends and acquaintances, maybe some jealousy from some of the AW's because they are fat and butt ugly. As for loosing friends, sure that was bound to happen but not because of being with me it has something to do with being 6000 miles away. Maybe fate decided to deal me a good had this time around because my lady no longer has much family except for her sister as all of her immediate family passed away withing the past few years.
As for your contention that "It is not easy for a young woman to be with a man old enough to be her father." blanquet statements like this are simly wrong, it all depends on the lady as I said my ladies sister is very happy as are a number of her friends and classmates with their "older" male friends, lovers and husbands as are the couples we know here in the states. Statements like this only show perjudice and an intolerance of the choices people make which contradict someones preconceived ideas.
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Does anyone think there is any correlation with regard to the circumstances surrounding the age difference?
For example, between those men that deliberately look for young women, and those for which it was a twist of fate?
Nadia and I met on ICQ in a vain attempt to teach me Russian (I half learned at Uni, was a bit of a pinko!) she had a boyfriend and I was a single father really expecting never to have any romantic liaisons ever again! Things grew between us and niether of us cnsidered the age difference a plus or a minus, it's just there is one!
This is where I'm supposed to say how everyone says I look younger etc be we all know it's bollocks. These are the things you want to hear! Meet up with old school friends and see how old they look. They're saying the same thing about you! The guy that used to sit next to me is now about 20 stone (280lbs - 120kgs?) and honestly looks 60. I'm 44 BTW.
WRT to aging, try http://www.deathclock.com I will live to 93, and Nadia 71. So I will outlive her by a few months, probably die of a broken heart.....
Ste
FEDERAL WARNING: Some folks have tried Deathclock and found out they should already be dead - view at ur peril!!
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You too are a lucky man but believe me it has nothing to do with the choices you made. It has everything to do with the choices & sacrifices she made.
She stepped out of her own per group to be with you. She probably lost some friends & family over it. She also quite likely stands up to much ridicule on an almost daily basis. If not spoken, silently acknowledge, a look, a stare. It is not easy for a young woman to be with a man old enough to be her father. The fact that she is & has been for some time testifies to the strength of her character & her solid commitment to you.
Richard,
I have always maintained that I am a lucky guy, but it is time to define where the lucky part is in my relationship with Lena. Both Lena and I were lucky to have found each other. She was always open minded to an older guy. Actually, she prefered a guy at least 15 years older. I agree with you that luck had nothing to do with my final decision to marry Lena. That decision was based on a lot of logic, common sense and emotions displayed by both parties (Love). When the only valid reason not to marry is some arbitrary and vague concept of the acceptable age difference that comes from the unknown general public, then I think it is stupid not to marry.
Of course, Lena has made tremendous sacrifices to be with me, but the concessions were mostly the same as any RW that moves to America. She didn't get any heat from her family about our relationship in any way. As I previously posted, Lena's parents were very supportive of our relationship. Sure, some of her friends questioned the age difference, but the "protests" were in passing conversations and quickly answered and forgotten.
Yes, there has been a strange look or two. Yes, there has been a few young men that seem to want to challange the fact that a guy twice their age has picked a plum from "their" tree. So what? What strangers think of my marriage is of no concern to me or Lena. If they don't "get it", it is their problem and not ours. Any beautiful woman will attract attention regardless of their age.
I also think that Ste hit upon something in his post when he wrote:
Does anyone think there is any correlation with regard to the circumstances surrounding the age difference?
For example, between those men that deliberately look for young women, and those for which it was a twist of fate?
I have posted many times that I wished that Lena was older than she is and that I never purposely looked for such a young woman. Fate brought us together, it is working very well after more than 6 years and I will not apologize for screwing up the general thought process that it shouldn't work.
KenC
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We also have a 17 year age difference. I'm 44 and she's 27.
Ken
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Ste, I was looking in the 35 - 39 age range. I have no children and would prefer someone with some maturity and still able to have children.
Since other guys were already in marriages with women 15 - 20 years younger, I decided to look for younger women myself.
I was not swamped with replies but the women who did respond were very nice.
Since I was age 53, only about 60% of the women I wrote to responded to my letters.
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richard! my sincere apologies! i love my country but if i was canadian, i would not want to be confused as an AM... i am embarrassed at who is running our country and what we are doing in iraq, a place that had nothing to do with 9-11 and is only fostering more hatred and terrorist attacks against americans.
not to mention the diliberate and calculated theft of funds from the middle class by the wealthy. oil companies are posting record profits and no one seems to care. just one example.
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richard! my sincere apologies! i love my country but if i was canadian, i would not want to be confused as an AM... i am embarrassed at who is running our country and what we are doing in iraq, a place that had nothing to do with 9-11 and is only fostering more hatred and terrorist attacks against americans.
not to mention the diliberate and calculated theft of funds from the middle classby the wealthy. oil companies are posting record profits and no one seems to care. just one example.
And now back to the topic . . . . .
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[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Ste, I was looking in the 35 - 39 age range. I have no children and would prefer someone with some maturity and still able to have children.
Since other guys were already in marriages with women 15 - 20 years younger, I decided to look for younger women myself.
I was not swamped with replies but the women who did respond were very nice.
Since I was age 53, only about 60% of the women I wrote to responded to my letters.
What was your criteria for making the comparisons with "the other guys"? Besides having similar ages, of course. You cannot take one point of reference (similar age) and use that as any type of benchmark. I am the same age as you, yet I have 27+ years of married life experience that you don't have. Don't you think that life experiences have a little to do with the success or failure of such an undertaking? The ability to maintain a long term relationship, is but only one more variable amongst many others.
KenC
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Well I can see I ticked off Tigerpaws just a little. LOL
I will say that I have never ever been accused of predjudice OR intolerant accept towards gays, but lets not go there.:X
Firstly Tiger, I don't write these things just to have something to write & get everybodies dander up. I have been in the buisness with a couple of different agencies & lost count a long time ago on how many guys I've seen come through this process. Before that I researched it for many years during my own search. I started this process back in 1992, so I've been through the mill a few times. You & the couples you know with large age differences are but a mere drop of water in a 45 gallon drum full of water.
I don't say these things just off the top of my head. I have experienced, over & over & over & over & over....I can't even begin to give an exact # of crash & burns I've seen. What I can though is say that in my experience half of one percent of marriages where the women is under 25 & the man is 20 years her senior, work. The rest die a horrifying death. Why they work well it would be my guess that those very few that make it work are very special individuals. I don't know you & your lady so I can't say but I do know Kens wife & I am quite aquainted with Ken himself as both of us have been members of the other board for a number of years.
His wife is a very special lady. I was very impressed with her from the moment we met. She had poise & grace that is very uncommon for a woman her age. That impressed me as I'm sure it impressed Ken. They are both very special & unique in their thinking & in their daily lives I suspect. I see her only drawback is she calls Yaroslav her freind, I used to too, but I soon outgrew it. LOL
I'm not trying to degrade anybody or their relationship, hell if you can make it work & it works for you, more power to you. I just caution the whole idea that guys should come here deliberatly seeking a woman under 25 & 20-25 years their junior because chances of it working are very slim. That is a fact, not a pipe dream. I've brought a few couples together & am responsible for a number of marriages that are happily working well. Members of this board who hold me personally responsible for bringing them together & that gives me much hope.
I suspect that you & your wife are very much like Ken & Lena & would probably be hard to tell apart except for looks. It takes a very special & tolerant man & a very understanding & forgiving woman to make such a relationship work. I know deep down I can't & I also know deep down that most men can't, but they all like to try & thats when the levy bursts. All I am saying is for guys to go in with there eyes wide open. Keeping up with the Joneses does not work well in relationships.
And now back to the topic . . . . .
LMAO Dan;)
RVR
Canadian Cowboy
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Richard,
Thank you for all your kind words about Lena and I. I have often refered to our realtionship as an aberration. Success is not the norm.
KenC
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I suspect that you & your wife are very much like Ken & Lena & would probably be hard to tell apart except for looks. It takes a very special & tolerant man & a very understanding & forgiving woman to make such a relationship work. I know deep down I can't & I also know deep down that most men can't, but they all like to try & thats when the levy bursts. All I am saying is for guys to go in with there eyes wide open. Keeping up with the Joneses does not work well in relationships.
Canadian Cowboy
LoL,
Rvrwind, no offence taken and I am fairly sure KenC feels the same. I will agree with you that most men do not know what they are getting into and either can not or will not expend the time, energy and funds necessay to do a proper search for exactly the type of lady they are looking for (I am sorry to say most men do not have a clue as to what they really want in a lady but that is another issue). I am under no illusion that there are all too many failed AM/RW repationships and the age difference is but one of many factors. Here again I place 80% of the blame on the man, maybe I am old fashioned but I believe in taking personal responsibility for my actions and or inactions, then doing my level best to make things right.
I am sorry to say that far too many men are not like you in their ability to realize they are not up to the challenge of a younger lady, good for you Rvrwind.
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[user=21]KenC[/user] Success is[/i] not the norm.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[/quote]
I must be missing something here - marriages of short duration (often defined as 5 or even 7 years by the courts) don't signify "success," but merely that the couple has gotten through the honeymoon phase are now making the adjustments that will alow them to have some success later in life. I'm sorry, but if you guys were talking about stable marriages of say 10-15 years it might mean something, and I would really be impressed with a RW/AM pairing that lasted 20+ years.
Not trying to be overly critical, its just all this talk about LONG marriages has me smiling.
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One problem with your statistical milepost -- there really wasn't much travel between the US and the Soviet Union 20+ years ago. May prove difficult to find a test case...
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LOL, Conner,
I traveled in the USSR 20 years ago and had a KGB buddy beside me everywhere I went, no romance there.
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I must be missing something here - marriages of short duration (often defined as 5 or even 7 years by the courts) don't signify "success," but merely that the couple has gotten through the honeymoon phase are now making the adjustments that will alow them to have some success later in life. I'm sorry, but if you guys were talking about stable marriages of say 10-15 years it might mean something, and I would really be impressed with a RW/AM pairing that lasted 20+ years.
Not trying to be overly critical, its just all this talk about LONG marriages has me smiling.
It's going to be tough to find someone that will stick around here for 10+ years to let you know what happens. As time goes on folks will move on. Maybe other married folks here feel as I do that after a couple of years the marriage becomes quite 'normal' in every way leaving very few RW related things left to talk about. The fact that my wife is Russian really doesn't make that much difference anymore.
I've pretty much said my piece across two forums now, learned what I could and often find myself just repeating stuff I've posted before.
Relevance dwindles..
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I agree with BC on how things smooth out after a few years of marriage. Other than all the different languages being spoken here we view ourselves as just another married couple with all the normal and usual family ups and downs, give and take. We are preparing for both boys to be home for the holiday weekend, so mom is anxious about them traveling, both at the same time, but I'm confident that will all sort itself out.
Number one son has accepted a new position here in Corpus as an engineer with one of the energy services companies, so he'll be with us until he finds a place to live on his own. After graduation he wanted very much to remain in Utah, near the rocky mountains, but employment opportunities are somewhat limited there. Number two son will have to go back the National Labratory at Los Alamos for a few more days to finish up work on a gas dynmics project (he's a physics major), before he returns to university to begin his fourth year of studies.
All pretty much what you's expect from any normal family, the normal sort of trials and tribulations. Except that half of all conversations take place in two languages, no one looking in would see anything extrordinary about life in this household.
As BC sez...relevance dwindles. My life is probably very different from what the newbie experiences which is why so many times I'm left just shaking my head when I read some of these posts.
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and what these former Russian boys think anout american girls?:D Do they see any differents to Russian ones?
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[user=21]KenC[/user] Success is[/i] not the norm.[/b]
I must be missing something here - marriages of short duration (often defined as 5 or even 7 years by the courts) don't signify "success," but merely that the couple has gotten through the honeymoon phase are now making the adjustments that will alow them to have some success later in life. I'm sorry, but if you guys were talking about stable marriages of say 10-15 years it might mean something, and I would really be impressed with a RW/AM pairing that lasted 20+ years.
Not trying to be overly critical, its just all this talk about LONG marriages has me smiling.
What are you talking about? Most of the guys who married a RW 20 years ago, have been dead for years.....lol[/quote]
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What are you talking about? Most of the guys who married a RW 20 years ago, have been dead for years.....lol
[/quote]Yes, but did they die happy? That's the question... ;)
(I know, I know... Don't encourage him...) :P
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Yes, but did they die happy? That's the question... ;)
Well with good poison it could be done:P
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Elen Wrote:
and what these former Russian boys think anout american girls?:D Do they see any differents to Russian ones?
I'll have to ask when mom is not around.
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Now really i wonder who would boys who were born in Russia prefer for their - how do you put there - soulmates? Would they have the same "problems" with american women like many of you had and prefer to seek for girls in Russia or they don't scare by american femimists :D
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Yes, but did they die happy? That's the question... ;)
Well with good poison it could be done:P
[/quote]
Well with a good *position* it could be done also!! What a way to go.....
Ste
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Ah! males could think only about one thing even on their deathbed:X:D
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Ah. well, both boys made it home safe and sound. mom can sleep again.
Elen wrote: Now really i wonder who would boys who were born in Russia prefer for their - how do you put there - soulmates? Would they have the same "problems" with american women like many of you had and prefer to seek for girls in Russia or they don't scare by american femimists
I don't think there are too many women who can scare them. They aren't ready to marry so they are wearing the most provocative cologne of all, "aire of indifference to the charmes of women". Very few women can stand being treated so casually by a man, as a result I don't think either of them are suffering too much from celibacy. They send home picture of their latest "conquests" from time to time, and they date some to the hottest girls in town.
Having said all that, they both have very recent college experience and they know all the tricks for getting a foreigner a student visa. If they choose to marry a girl from "home" they will no doubt go that route since with only a green card that's the easiest way to get their g/fs into the country.
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so young Anerican girls are the same to Russian Wonder WHEN do they turn into those awful american females I heard at american board:D
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so young Anerican girls are the same to Russian Wonder WHEN do they turn into those awful american females I heard at american board:D
Same as the time Russian women turn in to awful creatures.......right after marriage :P
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Hey you, Shadow :D Did your bride get her visa? And how much time you have now before she would turn into that "creature" ? :D
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Elen wrote:
so young Anerican girls are the same to Russian Wonder WHEN do they turn into those awful american females I heard at american board
Yes, there is an American food that turns AW into b!tches and deprived them of all desire for sexual activity... It's called "Wedding Cake".
Joke: Why does the bride always have such a big smile on her face as she walks down the aisle? Because she knows she has given her last BJ...
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JB I think you are drunk if you started to tell anecdotes here about BJ :D
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I think you are drunk
Not yet, my dear, not quite yet......
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Hey you, Shadow :D Did your bride get her visa? And how much time you have now before she would turn into that "creature" ? :D
She got her visa but not for being or having to become my bride :P
MY country does not have a time limit on marrying, living together is enough and while it may cause some delay even the partner could be changed:?
In fact if she could take a look at my place right now I am not sure she would come at all :shock:
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I'll translate you? Shadow what I asked:D - When do you visit Moscow ?
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I'll translate you? Shadow what I asked:D - When do you visit Moscow ?
Some interest Elen ??? :shock::shock::shock:...;)
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Yes! mercantile one:? He promiced me a slice of cheese and now he don't want to tell me when I should meet him in Domodedovo
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Yes! mercantile one:? He promiced me a slice of cheese and now he don't want to tell me when I should meet him in Domodedovo
I hope that the greedy hollander don't give you some holland "Gouda", the more usual cheap cheese that can exist :shock: ...
Maybe i can send you some French camenbert by post... more slow is the post, better it will be... it will be perfect when the cheese go out of the pack from itself and when you are able to smell him from your home when he is coming in airport :D:D...
Don't worry, he need to go in Moscow for pick-up his export product ( his future wife )... soon of later, he will be coming ;)
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I am not saying anything until I get my passport back from the Russian Embassy :P
But the tickets are booked and confirmed.:dude:
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But the tickets are booked and confirmed
and money for my cheese are built:cool:
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But the tickets are booked and confirmed
and money for my cheese are built:cool:[/quote]
That is if I can get the cheese past the customs. That big white machine seems to pick out goods that are not allowed to import. So far my chocolate and candy passed fine. But the big jar of pickles that Indian family was carrying probably is still somewhere in the depot.:shock:
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I'm down to two girls--one in the US and one FSU girl. I'm not sure of either one, so I am "looking again" at marriage agencies.
Two things I've noticed...
1) Most of the girls listed are in their 20s;
2) Those girls over 30 look older than an American girl of the same age.
Maybe life had been tougher and FSU girls age faster in the FSU, as do men?
I'm 47, so I'd rather have a girl over 35, in terms of age difference considerations.
But I do like beauty as well as intelligence and personality, so it looks like I am back to considering girls 25-30...
My first FSU girl friend told me she wanted to get married by age 27--after that you were "old" in the FSU. Those were her words. And she wanted a man in his 30s or 40s.
So the reality is, an age difference of 20 years is common. And in my experience, it's ok. A girl of 27 from the FSU is more mature than a girl of the same age in the US.
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There are plenty of good looking women over 30 in the fsu.
KenC
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Yes there are, and for those of you who know a little about Ukr., most all follow the doctors orders!!
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I realize there are lots of nice looking women in Ukraine over 30.
Maybe that is a good reason to visit and look beyond agencies, who mostly capture younger girls?
Plus, let's admit it--pictures and profiles do not capture the essence of a woman. That's why it's better to visit than to just window shop... :)
p.s. It's a slow day at RWD, so I thought we needed something to talk about :)
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Without question there are many attractive and even beautiful ladies in the FSU between 30 and 35, the question is are you ready to either accept the child she already has or start a family of your own within the first year together?
Without question the vast majority of ladies from the FSU in 30 to 35 year old age group who do not yet have a chile will want at least one, so are you ready to be the father of a new born at 48 or 49?
Sense the majority of ladies in this age group will already have a child (or 2?) are you ready to accept the child (children?) and all of the parental issues that go along with having a step child (children)? Depending on the age of the child (children) your discipline and parenting issues could be a real issue and then their is the costs, do you have the finical resources to support such a family for at least the first year to 18 months without your lady working?
These are real issues each man needs to answer for himself and though you can find a lady in this age group who is not interested in having a family they are rare and difficult to find.
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Without question there are many attractive and even beautiful ladies in the FSU between 30 and 35, the question is are you ready to either accept the child she already has or start a family of your own within the first year together?
Without question the vast majority of ladies from the FSU in 30 to 35 year old age group who do not yet have a chile will want at least one, so are you ready to bethe father of a new bornat 48 or 49?
Sense the majority of ladies in this age group will already have a child (or 2?) are you ready to accept the child (children?) and all of the parental issues that go along with having a step child (children)? Depending on the age of the child (children) your discipline and parenting issues could be a real issue and then their is the costs, do you have the finical resources to support such a family for at least the first year to 18 months without your lady working?
These are real issues each man needs to answer for himself and thought you can find a lady in this age group who is not interested in having a family they are rare and difficult to find.
These are very good points, TigerPaws.
Personally, I am most interested in a woman who wants children--with me.
When I look at an agency profile, I first look at single women without chiildren who want children. I think having children together will help connect the marriage even more. But I would not rule out anyone who has children of their own, either.
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Michael,
Initially I was considering a lady who already had a child but only if the child was under 3 years old. Then as time went on I changed my mind and decided that if I was going to raise another child I might as find a lady who has yet to have a child and have one of our own then the parenting issues would hopefully be less of an issue.
From what you have written you are looking for a somewhat older lady, this brings about other issues. Ladies over 35 are at far greater risk of complications than ladies under 30, so maybe you should consider ladies in the 29 to 33 year old range? What you need to look at is the time issue, figure 6 months to meet the lady and another 6 at best to bring over here. If she is say 32 that would make her 33, then add another 6 months before conception and then 9 months for the delivery by then she is over 34 years old at the time of your childs birth.
Just some toughts to consider, think in the terms of time it takes to meet, finish the K1 and for your lady to settle in to her new home. If you start ith a lady who is 35 she would be at least 38 by the time she has your child? That well within the high risk age for women and the child.
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Yes, TigerPaws, you are correct. That is why I will have to "live" with the age difference and seek someone under 35. And quite frankly, a 26 year old girl I met in Ukraine is more mature that many of the ladies I know here that are my age!
When I started this search, my goal was to quickly find a wife. Now, with experiences both good and bad, I think the goal is to meet and date girls, with the hope that something might develop along the way. But in the meantime, I've learned to "kick back" and just enjoy myself and the girls I meet and date...
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But in the meantime, I've learned to "kick back" and just enjoy myself and the girls I meet and date...
And therein lies the secret to eventual success!!!:)
There are plenty of good looking women over 30 in the fsu.
KenC
Ahmen to that Brother KC!!!:D
I live in a district of Tver that is just over flowin' with plenty of good lookin' ladies over thirty & some real babes between 25 & 30. Anything younger than that is nothin' more than an arm candy toy. The problem with most of these ladies now is very few of them are interested in marrying a foreign man & leaving their home. It is much better livin' here now & even more choice amoung local men so why leave & make your life more difficult.
My favorite hobby is standing on the balcony & watchin' the babes go by. Sometimes my wife joins me & even points them out to me,:), I got a good one.
No shortage of good lookin' mature women here and thats a fact.
RVR
Canadian Cowboy
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[/size][/color][/font]
I live in a district of Tver that is just over flowin' with plenty of good lookin' ladies over thirty & some real babes between 25 & 30. Anything younger than that is nothin' more than an arm candy toy. [/size][/color][/font]
This is true....I learned from experience that under 25 just does not work. In letters, it does. But in person, they are still students and have not experienced real life.
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My favorite hobby is standing on the balcony & watchin' the babes go by. Sometimes my wife joins me & even points them out to me,:), I got a good one.
Do you mean a good woman, or a good balcony? :P
I've seen both, and you're doing pretty good for yourself there, Cowboy... :D
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Thinking about children serving as 'glue' in a relationship is not the way to go imho.
hey.. even rhymes.
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Thinking about children serving as 'glue' in a relationship is not the way to go imho.
hey.. even rhymes.
I agree...
but that was not what I meant when I wrote
"When I look at an agency profile, I first look at single women without chiildren who want children. I think having children together will help connect the marriage even more."
"Helping connect" is not the same thing as "glue."
I agree with you because it is important for the man/woman relationship to be supreme, and children of second importance. That makes a win/win situation, because a happy marriage cretes happier kids who are not "spoiled" -- which happens when kids become of the highest priority.
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hmmm....:shock:
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My favorite hobby is standing on the balcony & watchin' the babes go by. Sometimes my wife joins me & even points them out to me,:), I got a good one.
No shortage of good lookin' mature women here and thats a fact.
RVR
Canadian Cowboy
Richard I will have to bring you some 10X power binoculars when I come. In fact 3 sets for me, you and Valya. :D
Maxx
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Richard I will have to bring you some 10X power binoculars when I come. In fact 3 sets for me, you and Valya. :D
LMAO, You do that David & I'll buy the Vodka;)
RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner
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Guys: Age is just a number. What is important is "biological age". According to all available medical tests, my biological age is 50 but I am a lot older. My outlook is much younger also.
I married a 35 yr. old Ukraine gal. I found out later she was a "nut" i.e. bipolar. She was very aggressive, fights, striking, etc. I got rid of her after 4 months. She went back to Ukraine. While still married to me, she went the marriage agency route again and married a Los Angeles guy that lasted 6 months (Visa Whore). I later found her on several marriage agencies and I told them she was a "nut" and bigamist. They removed her profile. Needless to say, I am being very, very careful.
W.
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yeah, this age question is getting old.. and useless.. there are, uh, billions of people on this planet and golly, not all of them think like americans...
i am 49, soon to be 50. my girl is 22, soon to be 23
she is a walking heart.. a heart with legs..the sweetest, most wonderful girl i have ever met.
ask her if age is a problem
some of these young women are worried they are too young for you and you will not accept them. i have never been told "you are a dirty old man" like i have heard from young american girls..these women here are not that rude and uncivil.
and no, i am not talking agency girls..i live here (kiev). i do not meet many agency girls anymore...
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Good for you anono,
I would join you if I were single and if it was not for the cold.
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Anono wrote:
i am 49, soon to be 50. my girl is 22, soon to be 23 she is a walking heart.. a heart with legs..the sweetest, most wonderful girl i have ever met.
[size="3"][/size]
[color="darkred"][size="3"]When you become 70, she'll turn ...43. ...blah, blah, blah. So? You've found a WONDERFUL woman. Good for you. Maybe you'll have 'issues' at age 70, but in the meanwhile you'll probably have the BEST years of your life. That's something that we can't measure, can't quantify. There are no guarantees in life. Some may argue that you are taking an extreme risk, with that age gap. So? Which risks are acceptable and which are not?[/size][/b][/color]
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I have to agree with you Anono. I just got off the plane from Kiev an hour ago. I will take a shot at my first trip report ever in the next day or so. One of the gals I met down in Nikalaev was 26. She had married a guy 5 years older then her and he stuck around for 2 years and one child. When she is 65 her ex will be 70 but what good will that do. A guy a lot older is going to appreciate her and stick around. Maybe twenty years later it will be an issue, but that would still be 18 more than she got with a guy close to her age. I will add that it won't be me. That one did not go well.
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It was never a problem finding a young and beautiful Russian woman to marry. And I think once guys realize they will have their choice of many fine young beautiful Russian women that they will get serious and look for a woman who is just as beautiful on the inside as she is on the outside. One they have a great chemistry with. And again, that usually takes work, or that ole dumb luck.
I don't think this is a luck to find a partner who is so much younger. I think this is absence of luck - as age difference creates problems. Among those - to be able make your partner happy to make her or him not to notice this age difference and what would be the most important for me - is that I use youth of my young partner, waste it maybe - while he could meet young girl and also be happy with someone with whom will go through all stages of life and also will be with a young partner and also enjoy moments of being with someone young. I hate being a user or to have trade relationship - that's why age difference would be unacceptable for me - especially with someone much younger me. Actually as I am a woman - 1 year younger also would bea problem.
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[size="3"][color="darkred"]Why does a couple need to go through all of the stages of life together? I question that requirement. Every couple must decide what is important in their relationship. It appears to me that every couple has different needs and characteristics.[/color]
[/size]
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Maybe they shouldn't, but I think a normal and giving person wouldn't want woman whom he loves to refuse of those things he considered good when he was young. That is, if he liked to have fun out with others then I doubt it's justful to take a young girl and to make her refuse of that funhe had when was young.
Or if girl is the one who is serious from young age already and doesn't want this fun and wants a normal family, kids and soon - why does she need to do this together with some old man who was not serious all his life?
It's better to meet and marry a young guy who is also serious from young age. And there are such guys, no less than serious girls in their ages. Why some serious girl should marry one who was not serious all his life and had fun all his life? There is no guarantee someone can understand something in 70 if he couldn't understand things in 30. It's even hardly possible that this understading will come with age. People are either mature or never "really mature". And if they are seekign for someone 25-30 years younger deliberately - it's completely immature behaviour. Just try to find basements for this search? Besides desire of someone to have kids finally - there are no sound, or mature, reasons.
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some of these young women are worried they are too young for you and you will not accept them. i have never been told "you are a dirty old man" like i have heard from young american girls..these women here are not that rude and uncivil.
and no, i am not talking agency girls..i live here (kiev). i do not meet many agency girls anymore...
Difference of age... i have think before that it was one of the reason of my previous missluck marriage... but i begin think that i was wrong...
Age difference become a problem when other problem have already appear...
Now, i have more that 10 year difference with my actual girlfriend... not a agency girls, a anti-date girls :shock:... i have know her one year ago, chat and write each other and become friend... several month, i have think she was a boy :shock: ( yep, i have never ask her before )... these friendship have allow us to know each other, to speak about think that you don't always speak with your future wife... and of course, language is not a problem, she speak Dutch ( one national language of Belgium ), and english ( she is translator for a american firm )...
In these case, i have not take care of the difference of age... only time and two common language have help to build a strong relation... these age difference have can be a problem for me if i have try to start directly a love relation... now, it is only a detail in my actual case...
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I think you make some good points alenika. In a perfect world it would be nice to go through all the stages of life with someone the you love and enjoyed being with. In reality, how often does that happen? I would bet not often. Half the marriages end in divorce and for a girl in Russia who is 20 and marries her boyfriend who is 21, the odds are he will not live to go through all the stages of life with her. Here and there people who are married for 50 years or more are rare and will be even more rare with the younger generations.
The girl I mentioned in my last post married a man 5 years older. He lost his job two months later and would not look for work. He sat and played computer games all day. She now looks for someone with more maturity and more stability.
Here in America there seems to be fewer women looking for older men. When I was 50 the three girls I dated in America that year were 21, 30 & 21. Now I can't find someone 10 years younger than me in America that is interested in me. All the 50 year old American women are looking for 21 year old boyfriends. I see it being much more difficult to find younger women in the FSU as well. Most of the profiles I see are looking for a guy 5-10 years older. There are still a few girls who don't care about age difference but you must look hard to find them.
I was just engaged to a girl from Russia who was much younger. It did not work out but the age difference was never a factor or did not appear to be. I think it is an individual thing. Some women want a younger man, some who have had a bad expereince with a younger man want a more mature and stable man. Another girl I write now, who I belive was from Bruno's site had her heart broken by a younger man. She was engaged to a young guy and he left her for another woman. She too, is looking for someone who will never leave her. An older guy will not roam and will treasure her forever. A large age difference is not for everyone. Many guys like Bruno want a more settled and mature woman. My former fiancee had the emotional maturity of a 12 year old. If I thought all young women were like that, I might change my mind too, and I will add that I don't rule out older women than what I often date. I think when you get a very attractive woman in their late 30's and in their 40's there is more competion becasue there are a lot of guys who want a beautiful woman close to thier age and a lot of the FSU women do not age well.
You do make some good points and what you say is right for you and for many people.
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I am going to agree with Photo Guy, age is only one of many factors in a relationship. With a 19 years age difference between my lady and myself I am sure some issues will come up after I am in my 70's, ok that is over 20 years from now and as Photo Guy said I will have had the best years of my life with a wonderful woman. As long as both people are happy in the relationship and are willing to work together damn near anything is possible.
On a more selfish note; having a 20 plus year run in a relationship is something to be said in todays world and having someone who cares for you in your later years is something we should be thinking about as none of us are getting any younger. I know some of you are thinking she could always pick up and leave when I am 75 and she is 56, but is that really an option? Maybe buy highly unlikely because at that age her options are far more limited than when she is in her 30' and early 40's.
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Yep, I agree with you TigerPaws. Besides when you do kick the bucket she will still not only be young enough but rich enough she will be able to go after the guys in their 20's and not have to worry if they can support her in the lifestyle to which you have gotten her accustomed.
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[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
Why does a couple need to go through all of the stages of life together? I question that requirement. Every couple must decide what is important in their relationship. It appears to me that every couple has different needs and characteristics.
Aha... Some couples need a trade - to exchange money or country for youth, for example. This is what I told - not giving but user attitude.
And this is what I was writing about - for me personally this would be unacceptable to be in a trade relationship. Either it is for money, or to for country. But this would be even worse for me to be in a relationship with a younger guy - either for my money, or my experience. In case of money - I just wouldn't like trade relationship - where each part seeks to use another. In case of my experience (I speak hypothetically of course) when this guy would reall think that loves me - I'd not let such relationship even start and would stop it on early stage - because I don't want to use another just because he is naive, innocent and doesn't know that is being used.
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I was not talking about chances that things will work. I was talking if two people will be happy in relationship or no. And if they will be happy because of each other, or because they have no other options.
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There are very few women who really enjoy being in the company of an older man.. even in RU. Many may compromise and compensate with other factors such as wealth or prestige, but if so be aware that her true preferences surely lie elsewhere.
Actively seeking a woman much younger who has had absolutely no experience with older men is asking for even more trouble on top of an already difficult venture.
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Actively seeking a woman much younger who has had absolutely no experience with older men is asking for even more trouble on top of an already difficult venture.
BC,
Generally I agree with you, which is why I highly suggest men look for ladies no younger than 25 who have been divorced for at least a year or more. Of course careful selection is important as you do not want to choose someone with a great deal of personal baggage (like someone who was seriously abused) and of course if she has a child that would be a decision as to how old the child is and if you want or do not want any more children.
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There are very few women who really enjoy being in the company of an older man.. even in RU. Many may compromise and compensate with other factors such as wealth or prestige, but if so be aware that her true preferences surely lie elsewhere.
Actively seeking a woman much younger who has had absolutely no experience with older men is asking for even more trouble on top of an already difficult venture.
I'll take this idea a step further. I think there is something wrong when a guy is only considering women of significant age difference. He should question himself as to why only much younger women are attractive. Is a trophy wife all that is important? Hey, I will be the last guy on earth to question that two people of any age can fall in love and live happily together, but if your criteria is such that only a woman half your age is acceptable, you got to wonder about the man's motivation.
Of course most here know I met, fell in love and have been married to a RW 25 years younger for the last 6 years. That being said, I never targeted that age group nor would I today. And I don't think that "beauty" is an acceptable excuse because there are many fine looking women even in the fsu in their late 30's and early 40's.
KenC
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The older the age difference the more likely the couples (both people) may not be able to survive the older partners ingrained habits of many years.
My wife seems to believe my life began when she arrived here and the 55 years preceding this were spent in seclusion.
I can safely say I was not a hermit for the first 55 years of my life. I did develop characteristics of a life long single person which drive her up a wall.
We had an argument yesterday over a sweater. I said it was blue and she disagreed that it was not blue. The background was blue with some scattered green designs. I saw a blue sweater she saw something quite different. To me blue was the primary color.
The fact that I misplace things and later can't find them drives her crazy also. I am a packrat.
These things are from over 50 years of thinking about one person. I am trying to think about three people now.
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[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
My wife seems to believe my life began when she arrived here and the 55 years preceding this were spent in seclusion.
Of course you had no life before her..... Silly Rabbit!
We had an argument yesterday over a sweater. I said it was blue and she disagreed that it was not blue. The background was blue with some scattered green designs. I saw a blue sweater she saw something quite different. To me blue was the primary color.
And it doesn't matter that I've been working in art related stuff since I was a teenage. If I say it is a different color than what she thinks it is then I am wrong. Same for you. And if she says something to me from two rooms away behind my back while I am watching TV and I don't hear here it is not because she said it too quietly but because I am not listening to her! :D Be prepared to be wrong about most things for the next... oh.... twenty odd years or so....:P:D;)
Happy Monday!
Ken
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but if your criteria is such that only a woman half your age is acceptable, you got to wonder about the man's motivation.
Ken,
I would like to disagree with you (above), I limited my search to women over 24 and under 30 who were divorced and without children. They had to be slim, intelligent and to my eye very attractive, the ladies were all from Russia and most from Siberia (away from the large cities). Sure I was looking for a life partner but I was also looking for a trophy, as I have often said a man can have both if he chooses well.
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the ladies were all from Russia and most from Siberia (away from the large cities).
TigerPaws,
Where is your wife from? Elena is from Omsk.
Ken
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Tiger,
But why only 24 to 30? I can certainly understand that a man is attracted to beautiful women, but why not open up the criteria to include women 31 and up?
KenC
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Tiger,
But why only 24 to 30? I can certainly understand that a man is attracted to beautiful women, but why not open up the criteria to include women 31 and up?
KenC
KenC,
With unlimited choices why settle for anything less than exactly what you want, why compromise when you do not have to? Besides the available women over 30 who are without children is far smaller group then those between 24 and 30 and I did not want to put up with the "my" child vs "our" child issue. Then there is the attractiveness factor, Ken how many women over 30 could pose for Playboy? Very few so why not go for the gold ring and have it all.
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Then there is the attractiveness factor, Ken how many women over 30 could pose for Playboy? Very few so why not go for the gold ring and have it all.
I disagree. There are more and more beautiful women over the age of 30. (I only use that age because it is your benchmark) This months Maxim has Cindy Crawford on the cover and she is still a knockout (and well over your 30 barrier) Think about this: By your criteria, you would exclude Angelina Jolie, Selma Hyaek, Halli Barry, Charlize Theron, .....
KenC
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Since I am one of the guys that seem to go after gals with a large age difference I will throw in my two cents worth. My age range that I look at is 21 to 40. I do find it easier to find gals I like that are in the under 30 catagory. One of the factors I like about the younger ones is sorta the reverse to what son of clyde said. I think a youger gal will adapt quicker to life in America than a gal, lets say 50.
I have had gals that I found interesting that were closer to the upper range. One gal that I met at a social and looked hard at doing a fiancee visa with was 38. One gal I went to Omsk to meet was 36. Both had teen aged kids. The 38 year old had a 16 year old gal that was more trouble than I wanted to deal with. The 36 year old had a teen aged son that was a great kid. To be honest, if I got involved with someone with a kid or two, I would rather they were younger kids. A 16 year old girl that is a spoiled brat is going to be a spoiled brat for a long time. A three year old, like the gal I just met but am not going to persue is going to have an entirely different relationship with you than a 16 year old will.
I won't say I don't like a beautiful woman, but I never thought of myself as looking for a trophy wife. Actually the gal I was very interested in before Luda was almost ugly but had enought great qualities that I was happy with her. I think I made a mistake dropping her for Luda actually. There is that old calipso song, if you want to be happy man, make an ugly woman your wife. Well, hopefully there are other ways to be happy.
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Then there is the attractiveness factor, Ken how many women over 30 could pose for Playboy? Very few so why not go for the gold ring and have it all.
Several women over 30 are enough financial secure and don't feel the need to show her body for a few $$$... and it is not proved that a woman who don't show her naked body in play-boy is not a attractive and sexy women... and several of these play-boy women are "usual" women when you see them in "natural" , without make-up...
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I'm just fearful that a newbie reading the last few pages of this thread are going to think 20-25 year age differences are the norm. That would be a bad impression, I think.
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Ken, sorry but all of your examples my be good looking to you but as for me they do nothing to wind my clock (ok maybe Crawford 20 plus years ago but not now).
Ken it is like I said with unlimited choices why compromise, go for the gold ring and have it all.
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Then there is the attractiveness factor, Ken how many women over 30 could pose for Playboy? Very few so why not go for the gold ring and have it all.
Several women over 30 are enough financial secure and don't feel the need to show her body for a few $$$... and it is not proved that a woman who don't show her naked body in play-boy is not a attractive and sexy women... and several of these play-boy women are "usual" women when you see them in "natural" , without make-up...
[/quote]
Bruno, please do not take offence but you are missing the point, maybe it is a language issue. Very few women over 30 (over 25 for that matter) have the looks and the body to be able to pose for a publication such as Playboy, it is simply a factor of age, little more.
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I'm just fearful that a newbie reading the last few pages of this thread are going to think 20-25 year age differences are the norm. That would be a bad impression, I think.
Agreed! Disclaimer read the complete thread from page 1 before making any judgement about what is the best age difference for you, then think long and hard about what you need, want and desire in a lady.
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Christy Brinkley (a former model who was married to Billy Joel) is about 51 now and looks great.
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[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Christy Brinkley (a former model who was married to Billy Joel) is about 51 now and looks great.
The point is that she looked a lot better at 21 than she dose now at 51, are you saying that you would prefer to sleep with her now or when she was 21?
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It's not the age of the girl, but the connection you feel together that matters. The main reason I searched for ages 25-33 was that I wanted childen with the women I was to end up with. if you wisely allow a couple of years to live together and get to know one another better as a couple before having children, going past 33 pushes the envelope if you want more than one child.
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Christy Brinkley (a former model who was married to Billy Joel) is about 51 now and looks great.
The point is that she looked a lot better at 21 than she dose now at 51, are you saying that you would prefer to sleep with her now or when she was 21?
[/quote]If I were single the answer would be yes I would sleep with her now. She looks almost the same at 51 with a few more lines on her face. She looks better than Farrah Fawcett looked at the same age.
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It's not the age of the girl, but the connection you feel together that matters. The main reason I searched for ages 25-33 was that I wanted childen with the women I was to end up with. Wisely allowing a couple of years to live together and get to know one another better as a couple, going past 33 pushes the envelope if you want more than one child.
My point exactly men you need to think in the terms of TIME, the time it takes to find then discover if the girl is right for you, then the time it takes to bring her over on a K1, plus the time it will take her to get used to you and her new home. We are talking at a minimum of a couple of years, so if you start out with a girl wh is 30 to 31 do you really want her to be having a child at 35?
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[color="red"][size="3"]'I disagree. There are more and more beautiful women over the age of 30. (I only use that age because it is your benchmark) This months Maxim has Cindy Crawford on the cover and she is still a knockout (and well over your 30 barrier) Think about this: By your criteria, you would exclude Angelina Jolie, Selma Hyaek, Halle Berry, Charlize Theron, .....[/size][/color]
[color="#ff0000"][size="3"]KenC'
[/size][/color][color="#ff0000"][size="4"][color="darkred"]WHO are those women you mention?
Just kiddin'.
When I was in [/color][/size][/color][color="#ff0000"][size="4"][color="darkred"]Kiev[/color][/size][/color][size="4"][color="#ff0000"][color="darkred"], I was AMAZED at the number of beautiful women over the age of 30. I think it's definitely possible to find an attractive woman around age 40 there. I urge newbies to take a good look at those older women. They have a lot to offer in terms of maturity, emotional stability, [/color][/color][color="#ff0000"][color="darkred"]and you may have more in common with them. In our society, too much emphasis is placed on superficial beauty. Haven't you guys ever been attracted to a woman who was not a 9 or 10? Don't you deserve more than just a 'trophy'? -doug[/color][/color][/size][color="#ff0000"][size="3"][color="darkred"]
[/color][/size][/color][color="#ff0000"][size="3"][/size][/color]
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[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
When I was in Kiev, I was AMAZED at the number of beautiful women over the age of 30. I think it's definitely possible to find an attractive woman around age 40 there. I urge newbies to take a good look at those older women. They have a lot to offer in terms of maturity, emotional stability, and you may have more in common with them. In our society, too much emphasis is placed on superficial beauty. Haven't you guys ever been attracted to a woman who was not a 9 or 10? Don't you deserve more than just a 'trophy'? -doug
Photo Guy,
Over 40? Are you kidding? Why bother? Why take on an old maid with grown or near grown children and all of the baggage that will come along with that?
You are also missing the point, in much of Russian and the Ukraine a man has unlimited choices so why settle for anything less than exactly what you want, need and desire? Ok if you want an old bag with a 16 to 17 year old kid and are willing to put up with a truck load of crap then go for it. As for me; not a chance, I passed up any number of ladies for much less and met with enough to weed trough all but the best (in my opinion). Why settle for second best when you do not have to.
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[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
Haven't you guys ever been attracted to a woman who was not a 9 or 10? Don't you deserve more than just a 'trophy'? -doug
To answer your first question Uh! NO!
Photo Guy; So what is wrong with having a Trophy wife?
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[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Christy Brinkley (a former model who was married to Billy Joel) is about 51 now and looks great.
The point is that she looked a lot better at 21 than she dose now at 51, are you saying that you would prefer to sleep with her now or when she was 21?
If I were single the answer would be yes I would sleep with her now. She looks almost the same at 51 with a few more lines on her face. She looks better than Farrah Fawcett looked at the same age.[/quote]
No offence please but to each their own, I would not!
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Photo Guy,
Over 40? Are you kidding? Why bother? Why take on an old maid with grown or near grown children and all of the baggage that will come along with that?
You are also missing the point, in much of Russian and the Ukraine a man has unlimited choices so why settle for anything less than exactly what you want, need and desire? Ok if you want an old bag with a 16 to 17 year old kid and are willing to put up with a truck load of crap then go for it. As for me; not a chance, I passed up any number of ladies for much less and met with enough to weed trough all but the best (in my opinion). Why settle for second best when you do not have to.
Again, with or without children is another subject all together and not relevant to this discussion.
Do you really think women lose their beauty at 30? I don't. In fact, if a woman takes care of herself, I think her prime years of beauty are from 35 to 45. I certainly would not look at a woman of that age as second best at all. In fact, with the added maturity, there are many more positives than negatives.
I will say that women from the fsu do tend to "hit a wall" beauty-wise at an earlier age. Maybe it is because of their more difficult lifestyle or lack of something else. I don't know. Another factor is that 7 or 8 years ago, there just wasn't many women available over 30. That seems to have changed now though.
KenC[/color][/font][/size]
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I would sleep with her at 51 without a minutes hesitation. Of course with my sex life lately, I would probably not kick an 80 year old out of bed, well that might be going a little to far.
Sleeping with someone and marrying someone is two different things. I have only found a few gals in the last 15 years I would marry. If I had to feel the same things to sleep with them I would be really horny by now.
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I've been to Ukraine four times and met dozens of women, watched many hundreds pass by on the street and in cafes.
The woman who was by far the most beautiful was 35 years old. It doesn't hurt that when she wears jeans and a halter she looks to be about 17. I realize she's a diamond in the rough, but she's not some pampered US model with a plastic surgeon and a team of personal trainers on retainer.
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I would sleep with her at 51 without a minutes hesitation. Of course with my sex life lately, I would probably not kick an 80 year old out of bed, well that might be going a little to far.
Sleeping with someone and marrying someone is two different things. I have only found a few gals in the last 15 years I would marry. If I had to feel the same things to sleep with them I would be really horny by now.
Turboguy,
While I tend to agree with your second statement I personally would not bother with her, it is just a metter of choices.
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[/color][/font]On that we can agree KenC, I would like to know the reason as well.
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I've been to Ukraine four times and met dozens of women, watched many hundreds pass by on the street and in cafes.
The woman who was by far the most beautiful was 35 years old. It doesn't hurt that when she wears jeans and a halter she looks to be about 17. I realize she's a diamond in the rough, but she's not some pampered US model with a plastic surgeon and a team of personal trainers on retainer.
There are always exceptions I am only speaking in broad generalities groovlstk.
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Tigerpaws,
Just as a note, I don't think that Playboy sets the standards for beauty in women. Or even in women's bodies for that matter. Their standards have really dropped over the years in my opinion. Besides, with all the air brushing and breast implants, you have to know that those girls are not real. Or at least not as they appear in the photos.
I also wonder where you get this facination with such young women and to consider a woman in her 30's a "bag" is a bit ridiculous to me. What are you going to do when your wife goes over that hill? (Reaching her 30's?)
KenC
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Ken it is like I said with unlimited choices why compromise, go for the gold ring and have it all.
Typical user attitude.. or customer attitude - which is the same. Hmmmmm some seek partner abroad to find the one-and-only. Others seeks to find more profitable trade.
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Tigerpaws,
Just as a note, I don't think that Playboy sets the standards for beauty in women. Or even in women's bodies for that matter. Their standards have really dropped over the years in my opinion. Besides, with all the air brushing and breast implants, you have to know that those girls are not real. Or at least not as they appear in the photos.
I also wonder where you get this facination with such young women and to consider a woman in her 30's a "bag" is a bit ridiculous to me. What are you going to do when your wife goes over that hill? (Reaching her 30's?)
KenC
Ken this is again because of that customer-user-trade attitude. One more sign of them is that ads are meaningful for them. The more show, the more ad, the more flashing - they go for it.
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Ken it is like I said with unlimited choices why compromise, go for the gold ring and have it all.
Typical user attitude.. or customer attitude - which is the same. Hmmmmm some seek partner abroad to find the one-and-only. Others seeks to find more profitable trade.
[/quote]
I can see it now..
:) MOB-Mart:
Your One Stop Shop For All Your FSUW Needs!
They'll even have the little hopping happy face. American consumers are some of the most spoiled pigs in the world because of this Wal-Mart mentality that the corporate world has developed over the past couple of decades. You'll never catch either one of us in that place!
Ken
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I also wonder where you get this facination with such young women and to consider a woman in her 30's a "bag" is a bit ridiculous to me. What are you going to do when your wife goes over that hill? (Reaching her 30's?)
KenC
For the purposes of decussion if I were in the market for a bride again (I am not), why would I even bother with women in their 30's when there are so many availabe 30 and under? For me there is no advantage, no reason and no desire and as I have said before with nearly unlimited choices why bother?
As for my lady she will turn 31 next year and she is still very attractive, is she as beautiful as she was when she was 25... Honestly no she lost that magical glow which only comes with youth, is she still extremily attractive YES. Will she stay that way for the foreseeable future? Most likely. What will happen then, only time will tell because the only thing written in stone is that we all will die sooner or later, other than that everything else is up to you.
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Ken it is like I said with unlimited choices why compromise, go for the gold ring and have it all.
Typical user attitude.. or customer attitude - which is the same. Hmmmmm some seek partner abroad to find the one-and-only. Others seeks to find more profitable trade.
[/quote]
alenika,
And what is wrong with "Typical user attitude.. or customer attitude" ? Your romantic notion is fine but not the only way to go about things, do you mean to tell me you do not know of couples where romance was not the reason for being together and that many of those relationships have stood the test of time?
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Tigerpaws,
Just as a note, I don't think that Playboy sets the standards for beauty in women. Or even in women's bodies for that matter. Their standards have really dropped over the years in my opinion. Besides, with all the air brushing and breast implants, you have to know that those girls are not real. Or at least not as they appear in the photos.
I also wonder where you get this facination with such young women and to consider a woman in her 30's a "bag" is a bit ridiculous to me. What are you going to do when your wife goes over that hill? (Reaching her 30's?)
KenC
Ken this is again because of that customer-user-trade attitude. One more sign of them is that ads are meaningful for them. The more show, the more ad, the more flashing - they go for it.[/quote]
alenika,
Maybe this is not your way but your way is not the only way to do things, others do what is right for them as long as both people are happy what is the difference?
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Ken it is like I said with unlimited choices why compromise, go for the gold ring and have it all.
Typical user attitude.. or customer attitude - which is the same. Hmmmmm some seek partner abroad to find the one-and-only. Others seeks to find more profitable trade.
[/quote]
I can see it now..
:) MOB-Mart:
Your One Stop Shop For All Your FSUW Needs!
They'll even have the little hopping happy face. American consumers are some of the most spoiled pigs in the world because of this Wal-Mart mentality that the corporate world has developed over the past couple of decades. You'll never catch either one of us in that place!
Ken
[/quote]
[user=9]catzenmouse[/user],
That is pretty much what we have now within the MOB industry isn't it?
Wal-Mart, Sears, Pennys and damn near any other place you shop is all the same sir, get used to it.
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Andie McDowell was my all time fav. If I were single there's no way I would turn down a date even if she is a couple years older than me.. the wrinkles 'n sags wouldn't make a bit of difference even if she were broke.
I wouldn't marry her right off based on my 'perceptions' alone, but if they were even close those younger, tighter chicks wouldn't deserve a second glance.
She just has that 'something' that makes me melt..
btw.. wifey does too.
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I also wonder where you get this facination with such young women and to consider a woman in her 30's a "bag" is a bit ridiculous to me. What are you going to do when your wife goes over that hill? (Reaching her 30's?)
KenC
As for my lady she will turn 31 next year and she is still very attractive, is she as beautiful as she was when she was 25... Honestly no she lost that magical glow which only comes with youth, is she still extremily attractive YES. Will she stay that way for the foreseeable future? Most likely. What will happen then, only time will tell because the only thing written in stone is that we all will die sooner or later, other than that everything else is up to you.
[/quote]
Tigerpaws,
I respect that you can live your life any way you want, but I feel very sorry for you. The inability to develope a strong emotional bond is a very sad thing indeed.
KenC
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[user=9]catzenmouse[/user],
That is pretty much what we have now within the MOB industry isn't it?
Wal-Mart, Sears, Pennys and damn near any other place you shop is all the same sir, get used to it.
TigerPaws,
You've got a very interesting way of looking at things. I don't agree with you in a lot of this but if you're happy and she's happy then good for you.
Ken
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Tigerpaws,
I respect that you can live your life any way you want, but I feel very sorry for you. The inability to develope a strong emotional bond is a very sad thing indeed.
KenC
KenC,
After loosing far too many to conflict, health problems and even murder the cost it too high to become overly attached to anything anymore. Don't feel sorry for me because I am happy.
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[user=9]catzenmouse[/user],
That is pretty much what we have now within the MOB industry isn't it?
Wal-Mart, Sears, Pennys and damn near any other place you shop is all the same sir, get used to it.
TigerPaws,
You've got a very interesting way of looking at things. I don't agree with you in a lot of this but if you're happy and she's happy then good for you.
Ken
[/quote]
Thank you and after all that is what life is all about isn't it? Being Happy.
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Just as a note, I don't think that Playboy sets the standards for beauty in women.
my mother sets this standard.
it's part of my problem.
doing as well as my dad did.
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Just as a note, I don't think that Playboy sets the standards for beauty in women.
my mother sets this standard.
it's part of my problem.
doing as well as my dad did.
[/quote]
You do know anono that you CAN change that, by making different choices?
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no, i'm good with it :cool:
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no, i'm good with it :cool:
Well than why did you call it a problem?
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Ok Kevin, very direct question for us all out here in the ether- a very pragmatic water test for us all. When people are happy they 'Radiate' exactly how they feel about each other. No words required. For the onlooker if this is absent then questions in their own minds may well be raised about the nature of the relationship, but for what reasons ?. Our western societys have certain protocols of behaviour. Over the last 3-4 generations the bar has been lowered age match wise and so have peoples generally expectations of what is an 'acceptable' difference. My ex- girlfriend who I am very close to had a grandfather back in Ireland in the late 1950's who was 60 when he married a cousin who was 18 !. He first met her when she resided in a pram !- Go get her cowboy !. Not only that, they had 10 children and were by all accounts remarkably happy. Nobody batted an eyelid as far as she knows. Similar trysts are found societys with strong rural traditions as we all know as well as in indigenous cultures. Perhaps in our sanitised urban cultures we have become too squeamish ?. There is much to recommend these differences although I would be circumspect about the potential chances of success should the woman be in her late teens and her husband in the grip of middle age. However, I also feel that amongst these RW's are some truly incredible individuals that possess a maturity and 'Soulfullness' that I have never encountered before in Western women. O.k, that's a generalisation but you get my drift ?. Even in these circumstances these partnerships can be very successful- love literally conquers all. I am 48 and the girl I am to meet is 26. I have wrestled with myself over the age issue but I feel myself slipping gently toward her with an almost divine inevitability !. Getting back to the picture of the 2 of you. Sweet jesus you both look happy in that picture. You look, as we say in 'cockney ryhming slang' here in London, 'PUKKA' !. Just right, bullseye etc. All on this website share the hope which that represents. Happy people make good people so we should stride into our respective futures with you along with those others that have succeeded . About this forum ; This website is the next village down from nirvana as far as it has helped me immensely in clarifying the experience and practicalities of falling in love in this way. Viva RW all, and one in particular !. Happy hunting seekers !. Best wishes- Bernie
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I am 48 and the girl I am to meet is 26. I have wrestled with myself over the age issue but I feel myself slipping gently toward her with an almost divine inevitability
Forgive me for saying so, but this sounds like you've fallen in love with a photograph.
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Ah. . . .Nice try but only half right !. Seems like you spotted an iceberg !. As always, most lies beneath the surface. Sure, pics are a viseral treat and we'll all subscribe to that one but as we all know that's only part of the story. Excuse the lyricism but it's a congenital defect I have ; 6 months writing and a planned visit, head not extended too high above the trenches !. Going in February. Not taking any risks at present- Call me a mobile anthropologist. What are your perceptions of me, you were half right so you'd probably rightly deduce that I'm a greenhorn, how green though ?. Photo guy got a griling, ok, a tad naive, but strangely he was working some other senses there methinks. Was that all just 'Russian roulette' or is his acuity sharper than his collective detractors could give account for ?. Be interesting to see what you've garnered from me thus far- best wishes. 'The bee'
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jb is my favorite person to disagree with but I think I have to agree with him this time. I don't disagree with the age difference. I just think that you might find something different than you expect when you actually meet. I have fallen in love with a photograph (and warm romantic letters) a million times myself. 90% of the time who I meet is not who I thought I was meeting.
I just spent last week in Ukraine. I had one gal who I thought was going to be terrific. It seemed like we were soulmates in our letters. She could pour out her heart to me and I could pour out my heart to her. I planned to spend 4 days with her and since I had some free time planned short meetings with 2 others, (one fell through).
The end results is that the gal I spent 4 days with turned out to be a dud. She was the hardest gal to talk to I ever met. We had no communication and spent most of the 4 days inventing ways to avoid each other. The other gal who I was meeting just because I was there and had a free day turned out to be the nicest gal I have met in my life. She was totally awsome. I am heading back in 4 weeks to spend more time with her. As far as age difference I have more with either of those than you do.
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alenika,
Maybe this is not your way but your way is not the only way to do things, others do what is right for them as long as both people are happy what is the difference?
I didn't say it was wrong. I just told that this exists. I am glad you agree of this about yourself - it's always better to have open eyes than speak that rubbish about love. Everyone has own choice, justbetter when they realise what choice they do and that this is their own choice. I hope you remember that trade relationship contains this "trade" part for both of you in family.
I want also say that such type of relations exist much moreoften than people think. Even here if to look arguments of those who are against age difference - they speak much that this age difference is dangerous, risky, that it's difficult to meet honest woman with large age of difference and therefore it's better to seek other options - more available and reliable ones. They don't care at all if woman will be happy in this relaitonship, they only care that if she will not be happy, then this can lead to break and disaster. And then they argue that they don't want tobe insuch trade relationship, they are better than that. But arguments about risks of couple with large age difference already means that that they are seeking for trade still. Just more reliable trade - with less age difference.
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Bee,
Looking at the typical boy meets girl situation, initial personal contact causes some kind of communication that when evaluated by both parties leads to common interests and possibly a desire to persue a relationship. Things usually move along rather quickly and either the relationship forms or slips away. All in real-time and face to face. This is how most of us learn and are conditioned to persue relationships. Yes, fantasy plays a role during this short period but the stark reality of the situation (ie she dated another guy last nught) is usually enough to 'snap' us out of that lovestruck state..
On the other hand long distance introductions that begin with trading of photo's and romantic correspondence is clearly territory most are not familiar with. It doesn't matter if you are 20 or 90 or how much you have learned from past relationships or conquests, you will likely be totally unprepared and defenseless. Surely Valentine cards passed from desk to desk in school certainly does not qualify for a degree in MOB.
I believe that the real problem during a prolonged letter writing period is that many men 'condition', fantasize and yes even brainwash themselves into believing that a relationship actually exists with a woman they have not even met. The mind is very receptive to repeated suggestions.. that is how we learn. 2 plus 2 equals 4, over and over and over. Consider each letter a daily training session, each photo reinforcing evidence.. over and over and over again. I'm sure these concious and subconcious thought processes repeat themselves hundreds of times each day, month after month, literally erasing our logic and objective capabilities . That's a tough nut to crack.
I'm sure honest women can also be similarly affected but considering the amount of mail most popular (young hot) women receive it's hard to believe they can emotionally 'attach' themselves so easily to one author alone. The scammers of course love us all~!
That's IMHO 'falling in love with a picture'.
On top of it all, media of all types concentrate their visuals on the young and pretty women, very few mainstream erotic venues will show grey, sags or god forbid stretchmarks unless it is fetish oriented. Hollywood touts otherwise incompatible couples and look how long (or short) most last. I'm sure some of these relationships are created for simple PR shock purposes but still they do help create a popular image of social acceptability to the point of faddism.
Like during 'normal' dating, when writing we may tend to show only our best and ignore more pointed questions like:
What compels your interest in a 48 year old man?
Have you ever dated or had a relationship with someone as old as I am?
etc.
I think men are rarely asked the same type of questions by the women.
How about men asking themselves?
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6 months writing and a planned visit, head not extended too high above the trenches
First of all 6 months of writing is actually a waste of time. I find it surprising that the lady has hung in there that long, if you are writing to the same lady.
Most of these ladies usually don't last longer than 3 months. If it takes you longer than that to get your butt on a plane they 9 times out of 10, they lose interest. The ones that hang in, well you would or at least I would, be questioning, why?
I've said it a thousand times & will likely have to repeat it a thousand more...
Until you meet face to face, you have nothing. You are nothing more than Penpals, period!!
BTDT, Bought the t shirt!!! The best recipe is write for 2 months & then get your ass on a plane!!! You will achieve much greater results than you will wasting money & months on end writing letters.
RVR - Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner
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I think you make a good point in saying the best thing is to write for two months and then get yourself on a plane. If the gal is attractive you are also right, you are not her ONLY "pen pal" and if you don't get on the plane, someone else will. If he has much going for him you know what they say about a bird in hand....... If you want her, go get her before someone else does. The one I like a lot right now, three weeks after we started writing, I was having dinner with her. Three weeks from now I will be back spending a lot of time with her. There is something to be said for, If you want something, go get it. Sometimes I am not good at getting what I want, but it is not for lack of trying.
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First of all 6 months of writing is actually a waste of time. I find it surprising that the lady has hung in there that long, if you are writing to the same lady.
Most of these ladies usually don't last longer than 3 months. If it takes you longer than that to get your butt on a plane they 9 times out of 10, they lose interest. The ones that hang in, well you would or at least I would, be questioning, why?
Long writing, a waste of time :shock:
Not sure Richard... i have communicate more of one year with a woman... and it is only now that we have see that we have a lot in common and agree to try something more that friendship...
These long communication have allow us to appreciate each other, to build some friendship...
Of course, these communication was not in the goal of find a wife... it was a simple internet friendship... and she was not planned marry a foreign man...
Of course, since the grow of our mutual interest, we see each other like candidat for a marriage but we don't hurry in these way... we go meet around May... like friend and maybe more if the "alchimy" is right...
She was never a agency girl, she have never post some ads, she was not searching a foreign husband, she was not searching a boyfriend.... she have know me via anti-date and we have begin communicate a lot because we have two common language ( English and Dutch )...
I don't know where these relation can lead, but it is more healthy that usual "love" relation via marriage agency... we don't hurry, we take time, we communicate, we are friend... love is only a new option....
If a woman loose interest after 3 month, why hurry to marry her... if she loose interest so fast, she can loose it after some month of marriage...
I begin believe that try to force thing lead only to problem... before, i have contact lady in the goal of marry one... with the actual lady, the contact was only friendship... and these friendship have evolve in a starting relation but without already speaking of marriage since we have not meet already...
And for coming back to the topic, i have never consider the possibility of a relation with these woman before because she is enough young... only 27 year old.. this make 10 year difference with me... and in these case, i am not fall in "love" from a photo since we have exchange our photo's only last month... i have learn is inner beauty long time before with our e-mail correspondance... the fact that we was not trying build a relation in these time have allow a discussion where lies are not present...
So, my next trip report will be for end May... it will not be a dating trip report... only a visit to a friend who can maybe evolve in a love relation... in so situation, the trip can only be succesful :D.
PS : I begin believe in the model of JB, who have use several year for court his lady... a lady who was not specialy searching a foreign man and who was not in marriage agency...
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That is the principal difference Bruno. You are or were not searching for a wife, niether was she. You became Friends and you will meet as friends not as potential lovers.
What you need to understand is that most men in this process fall in love with letters & pictures long before they get on an airplane to go meet her. How do you think the spam & scam & bait & switch operations work so well? Because they know how men think & how & what buttons to push to get them to spend their money & time on a Virtual Woman!
You all need to realize that for centuries we have been trained to think in a certain direction & women in another. What they say & write or do we 90% of the time interpret wrongly because our brains don't fuction that way. There are very few men in the overall scheme of things that have been able to break free of the mold & become impervious to the female charm. To do so one has to change the way one thinks, a thousand years of evolution has to be revamped. Remember - Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars!
Nowhere is that more prevelant than in the dating game. If a man goes into it like Bruno as friends he would be much better off & save much money. I know it is impossible for most but IMHO the best way to find, meet & eventually marry a woman would be not to write at all. When your dating at home, do you write her first? I don't think so. Rent a place wherever you want to go for 3-6 months, get on a plane, go live there, soak up the culture & meet them in your day to day life. That is optimal, however we all know not logical for most.
So if you are going to go the writing letters, the first thing you have to do is find the best method for you. With or without an agency, what ype of agency, full service package or pay as you go? All these as well as the costs have to be considered. Then you must never ever espouse words of intimacy or love in a letter & you must never accept them from the lady. She can no more love you than you can her from a picture & a couple of letters. Its all Fantasy!!! Once you figure that out, well the rest is easy.
RVR - Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner
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Wow! Some great posts of wisdom here lately.
BC wrote:
I believe that the real problem during a prolonged letter writing period is that many men 'condition', fantasize and yes even brainwash themselves into believing that a relationship actually exists with a woman they have not even met. The mind is very receptive to repeated suggestions.. that is how we learn. 2 plus 2 equals 4, over and over and over. Consider each letter a daily training session, each photo reinforcing evidence.. over and over and over again. I'm sure these concious and subconcious thought processes repeat themselves hundreds of times each day, month after month, literally erasing our logic and objective capabilities . That's a tough nut to crack.
When Lena and I were calling each other (rather than writing) we both hoped that our little fantasy conversations were real and would have the eventual results that they did (married happily) but we both were realistic and knew the odds were against us. We didn't allow our "potential" relationship to consume our daily lives. We just kept that hope filed away until it could become "real" when we actually met each other.
Turboguy wrote:
I just think that you might find something different than you expect when you actually meet. I have fallen in love with a photograph (and warm romantic letters) a million times myself. 90% of the time who I meet is not who I thought I was meeting.
It's kind of funny now, but I was conditioned by meeting AW on the Net. The more experienced I became, the less time I spent emailing and talking on the phone before setting up a face to face meeting. I came to the exact same conclusion as you; 90% of the time who I met was not who I thought I was meeting. Why waste the time and effort?
Which brings me to Bruno & RVR. Sorry Bruno, but I have to agree with RVR when he writes:
Until you meet face to face, you have nothing. You are nothing more than Penpals, period!!
The initial writing or calls to a woman that you have yet to meet can only lay the groundwork for very basic criteria for a potential relationship. (Because there is no actual relationship until you meet)
This all changes after you have spent time face to face though. It is all so much more real then.
KenC[/size][/b]
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Wow!ÃÂ Some great posts of wisdom here lately.
Yeah - and only 28 pages to wade through to get to it :clapping:
Just kidding :toocool:
- Dan
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When I first started this adventure I joined every group I could find and read everything I could about the country, culture, language, and especially the women. I only wish I would have had this resource available to me. Would have saved me a lot of time and confusion in many ways but in many others I had to go and do the same stupid things that were done before me by others and for the first while I was "sure" that I was different blah, blah, blah.
This forum is a grand One-Stop Shop to help/inform anyone at most any stage of this FSUW/WM rollercoaster ride.
28 pages.... pishaw... if they can't read 28 pages then they desearve to be scammed good and beaten well with the ClueBat! :P:P:P <joking on the last part>
Ken
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Wow!ÃÂ Some great posts of wisdom here lately.
Yeah - and only 28 pages to wade through to get to it :clapping:
Just kidding :toocool:
- Dan[/quote]
Better to have nuggets of gold that are difficult to find, then no nuggets at all.:cool:
KenC
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Until you meet face to face, you have nothing. You are nothing more than Penpals, period!!
The initial writing or calls to a woman that you have yet to meet can only lay the groundwork for very basic criteria for a potential relationship. (Because there is no actual relationship until you meet)
[/size][/b][/quote]
I fully agree with Richard too... it is why i speak about friendship... and maybe some more relational interest... but not "love" already...
I think that the main problem of several men is that they fall in love very fast from a few letter and photo, make a week trip, start the K1, marry ... and divorce a few year later... All need to go fast and nobody have the time to know each other...
Everybody know that fast food is not healthy... was about fast dating ???
My only problem with Richard is that he put a timeline for the first meeting... i go meet a woman when i feel myself confortable with these woman... Why use a big part of my yearly holliday and my money for meet someone that i don't know... This give maybe great trip report for RWD but it is not my main goal...
Of course, if you meet several lady during one trip, you have more choice... but same a meeting, face to face, don't allow to know someone... of course, you will know if you are sexually attracted, if you have some common view... but a life together is more complex that common hobby or sex...
Explain about my country, about my character, about my point of view on numerous topic ( not specially related to dating ) allow me to see if we have some compatibility... i have already pay the price of making a fast decision by 5 years of my life... i don't wish make it again... time and communication help me to know someone enough for decide if i make a trip or not...
Several say that meeting with short e-mail exchange is the best way... i don't agree with this, certainly in my case where the lust factor can trouble my mind... if i meet a sexy young lady and we are fast in bed together, i can act from a non rational way... she take the control over me... writing for a enough long time before allow to keep my mind clear and decide if she is good or not at the mind level... the meeting come later for see if the spiritual compatibility match a sexual compatibility.
Some are able to control these lust factor and keep a clear mind when they have go in bed with a young sexy woman... but i think that these some are very few... sex is the weakness of man, gold digger and visa whore go use it without problem for obtain what they wish : a old rich foreign husband or a green card.
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Now see there ya' go....
of course, you will know if you are sexually attracted
If she's got a nice ass, firm boobs & no moustache & ain't hard on the eyes, were pretty much sexually compatible from the get go. I don't need much letter writin' or face time to figure that one out!!!! ROTFLMFAO:P
But seriously: all letter writing does for you is clear up the clutter so to speak Gets all the small talk out of the way, before you meet. But when it comes to bonding, to forming a growing relationship, this cannot, I repeat CAN NOT be accomplished through letter writing. You must be face to face & spend time in an enviroment where you are close & can communicate on a very intimate level.
Forming a friendship through letter writing is all fine & dandy. I have many friends here on RWD that I communicate with regularly & who I write to & about regularly & we all seem to get along. But put us all together in one room, face to face & watch how fast things deteriorate. Some of us could turn out to be real dorks in person.
You cannot form a valid or lasting opinion of someone through virtual communication. Sure you can get to know details about each other & each others lives but subconsiously we all come across differently in the virtual world. We all maintain a facade that cannot be maintained when we are face to face.
That being said I cannot stress enough the fact that to really know someone, letter writing is not going to cut it, you must spend time face to face. And not just one or two weeks, much more time. I have been married to my wife for 2+ years & I still discover things about her & her life that I was unaware of previously. Nothing that will damage our relationship & usually very small things but still things I didn't know & we dated & lived together for almost a year before we married.
Developing a relationship takes time, trust & mutual commitment to the percieved goal & plenty of one on one time. These are things you can never accomplish with letter writing.
RVR - Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner
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28 pages to read before finding that golden nugget would be worth it for a newbie. Couple years ago this info was not around, instead a guy usually dealt with an agency which encouraged him to write (spend) more and hopefully, the chump would never show up in town. There is a silver needle in this haystack which all the keyboard Romeos should pay attention to....it is real face time and NOT your creative writing which matters.
But, ya know, there is a certain type of guy who likes to sit at the keyboard and compose his creative and very clever letters and in many ways---he is writting to himself. Just a little fantasy in life ain't bad, but rec ognize it for what it is.......a fantasy:clapping:....Tim
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Developing a relationship takes time, trust & mutual commitment to the percieved goal & plenty of one on one time. These are things you can never accomplish with letter writing.
Fully agree... letter writing is only a tool for help in the selection and analyse of a possible relation... letter writing don't make the relation but allow to remove the bad or incompatible one.
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Apart from learning a person's name and a few other things, written communication, in advance of meeting tells us only that which the other person wants us to know. Of course that is a two edged blade, the person can tell us what they think we want to hear and get it wrong, resulting in a rejection that should not have occured or, on the other hand, a false positive.
Attraction is not just about what we write, in fact, it is NOTHING to do with what we write! At the end of the day, all the written words and all the photographs mean nothing unless the pheromones are compatible on meeting.
At the end of the day relationships are about two people being in contact with each other, writing does not decrease the distance, whatever those who would gainsay this point may think. It certainly seems to me that over the years, the people who are willing to act decisively but with consideration are the people who succeed. I also think that because letter writing is a 'remote control' option it probably tends to suit those who can not manage the relationship initiation process in real life, it is more comfortable to them to write than to meet. Most letter writers will never leave their home country. These are the guys who have masturbatory fantasies as they make 'selections' from huge numbers of profiles, rejecting profiles on a whim, or for imagined slight, most will never meet a Russian woman for real.
Does this mean that guys who indulge in long letter writing campaigns do not end up married and claiming happiness? Of course not, but it does not make that which I wrote above untrue, it is just that they would not have managed to get married in any other way. It does not render this a sensible option for 'Mr. Average'.
I know for a fact that women tend to think guys who write loads of letters are simply a waste of time and in most cases will quickly ditch such a person.
You want to make this work?
Write quickly and with short letters, tell your interlocutor in the first letter, maybe the second, when you are coming to her country & town and follow through. Subsequent communication then has a purpose.
After meeting, when there is a context and goal to continued communication, writing makes more sense, although, talking is much better and you are in a relationship with a woman with whom you can have spoken communication aren't you?
In summary, show me a man who writes loads of letters and I will show you a man who has problems with relationships or no committment to the process and goal!
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Until you meet face to face, you have nothing. You are nothing more than Penpals, period!!
it is so refreshing to have rvr, kevin and other agency owners who simply tell it like it is.
as most of you know, i have been at this for some time, usually dating one lady while keeping my eyes out and meeting others if it does not turn out to be "the one".
i have seen a distinct pattern in the letters i have been receiving through an umbrella agency which has affiliates all over ukraine.
almost ALL of the letters i receive now suggest more correspondence before meeting. i wrote to the umbrella agency and told them basically what i am posting now, that i have noticed this change.
i know most of these women never meet the men who write. as RVR is fond to call them, they are "keyboard cowboys" these women are simply delighted if a man they are interested in actually comes over here to meet them.
so here i sit in kiev and receive letters from women who know i am here and instead of giving me their numbers they want more letters... to which i say is total bullship.
i told the agencies they are shooting themselves in the foot if they are telling the girls to do this (or writing the first few letters themselves)......
another thing i see, i am almost convinced most of these agencies (and or the terps) tell the girls "look, 98% of the time you will never see this man again, so get as much out of him on a first (and usually only) meeting with him."
they are really getting bold. i had a lady and her terp order a bottle of wine without asking, and would have run the tab up (they wanted another bottle) past $100 if i had let them. these two talked amongst themselves more than with me....
this is such an industry over here... men and women who cannot even speak directly to each other... it is a very rare occasion that any of it really works..
of course i have to add my disclaimer about the good agencies and owners that abound at this board.
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the above is off topic but in response to other posts in this thread
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Until you meet face to face, you have nothing. You are nothing more than Penpals, period!!
The initial writing or calls to a woman that you have yet to meet can only lay the groundwork for very basic criteria for a potential relationship. (Because there is no actual relationship until you meet)
This all changes after you have spent time face to face though. It is all so much more real then.[/size][/b]
[/quote]Not that I disagree with said above, but funny observation. 100% of those whomI meet in real are the same as I knew them in internet. Not exactly the same of course, but with some added qualities. Just they are not any different, no different impression of them. I cannot say that met many though - 2 people from abroad (1 friend and one more than friend) and some people from my city. But it was my choice not to meet many - maybe that's why they didn't differ - because I gave time to get toknow them before meeting? Actually I am with Bruno on this - for meit's better to correspond at least for year before meeting - thatis to wait when I feel comfortable with person and when he is becoming a recognisable and close person. But I don't think it's the samefor everyone. I think depends on each person when to meet and how much correspondence matters. For someit's easier togo andsee - and they see much better with just eyes that via words. Others can see real people behind the words andit canbe more comfortabletothem to meet withthe person whom they already know than to meet hundreds strangers and try to see who they are during inevitable social game.
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another thing i see, i am almost convinced most of these agencies (and or the terps) tell the girls "look, 98% of the time you will never see this man again, so get as much out of him on a first (and usually only) meeting with him."
[/size]
Can not agree with you here. Things are changing. If several years ago it could be the truth, now a lot of agencies understand that if they are providing a bad service to male-customers, who actually are paying for their services, they will not come back again, they will not advice others to use the same agencies and what is the most important I think, they can write bad things about their agencies on different forums, etc. in Internet.
Good agencies should be more concerned about the successes of their work.
If they do not - it's just an industry and you are there, just a number. I think this is a big problem for big dating sites, as let's say match.com, kiss.com
There is nothing personal there, are you are - no matter if it's a woman or a man, is just one among hundreds of others.
During several years of work in this field I see that there are a lot of men who will never end up with the meeting with the girls they are writing. For some it's a way to see that somebody actually can be interested in them, for some it's a way of having a virtual relationship and virtual sex.
I think it's a very rare thing to see a woman feeling the same way, but I guess it is happening as well.
I agree that
Until you meet face to face, you have nothing. You are nothing more than Penpals, period!![/size][/font]
You can write whatever you want in the letters. And very often men and women are writing exactly what others want to hear from them, just to please a partner or to show they have actually have things in common.
You can notice that a lot of women are writing in their ads that they are interested in sport. I guess only 1% is truth!
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Personally I think you might get lucky if you meet a few ladies and find what you expected. I have met lots and lots and lots of ladies. I would say 20% are what I expected. Last week I met two in Ukraine. The first poured her heart out to me in letters. I poured my heart out to her in letters. I thought I had a soulmate that I could have long talks about anything. In reality, getting two words out of her was difficult. I never felt more of a communication gap. We spent 4 days trying our best to avoid each other because we were so uncomfortable together. In 4 days we probably spent 10 hours together and the first 6 were the first day.
The other gal said nothing in her letters. They were short but she did say in each letter that she wanted to meet me and since I was going to be in town and my real second choice was busy, or said she was, I met this one. What I found was the easist person to talk to I have ever met and the nicest gal I have met perhaps in my life.
I have met gals who seemed warm and caring who spent all their time yelling at someone. I have met gals who seemed wonderful and what I was really getting was the thoughts of the terp who was writing her letters with her. I met one who seemed to say the nicest things and when I really looked back, she was throwiing my own words back at me but changing them to be her words. I met one who's favorite pass time was aiming her car at a crowd of people and putting the gas pedal to the floor and blowing her horn and watching them jump for their life while she laughed and laughed, (Not on my car insurance Nina) When I have found a really wonderful one, it was not something I would know from the letters, it was pure luck and purely a numbers game.
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TG ~ I guess that the degree to which letters reveal a person to be the same, or different to the real world person depends upon the expectations and standards of the writers.
If my standards were low as were my expectations then I am sure that written communication would be a successful tool. My expectations and standards are neither and so letter writing is largely a waste of time, albeit that I have not used letters as a means of finding a wife, I beleive in much more direct methods for building personal relationships.
If one is not good at building relationships in preson, not good at listening and talking, then letters may be some help. If one is of normal social ability then no matter how many letters are written they count for nothing as soon as a meeting is made. This is not to insult letter writers, if, for them, they have to write many letters in order surmount the normal social barriers, then so be it. It is probably more acceptable, for Americans, to write loads of letters to some bint in Belarus than to send loads of emails to a lady in Los Angeles.
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i stand by my words alexia, it happened again just two days ago
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Quite some varied experiences here regarding whether the woman you actually meet is different than the woman you corresponded with.
In my case of meeting over 155 women from FSU, I would guestimate that 90% were pretty much what I had expected based on our e-mails. I follow the path of exchanging 5-10 e-mails with the gals compressed into a 6-7 week window just before my arrival. Of course, those 10% who turned out much different than I had been lead to believe . . . . well there were some real doozies in that group.
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Albert ~ I think there is a big difference between writing 6 or 7 messages prior to a definate visit and somebody writing huge screeds on a daily basis for several months.
In your circumstances, I would expect the exchanges to be largely fact based and from the woman's side, actually written by her alone. I would expect to find what I expected to find.
When the guys are writing huge messages in great quantity for long periods they need to know that, assuming the woman is patient enough to stand for this, that she may well have the help of friends and a glass or six of wine or vodka to help the creative juices and that phrases, paragraphs and even whole messages that meet with group approval will be recycled out to other guys. These women have lives outside of you wife hunters.
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In your circumstances, I would expect the exchanges to be largely fact based and from the woman's side, actually written by her alone. I would expect to find what I expected to find.
When the guys are writing huge messages in great quantity for long periods they need to know that, assuming the woman is patient enough to stand for this, that she may well have the help of friends and a glass or six of wine or vodka to help the creative juices and that phrases, paragraphs and even whole messages that meet with group approval will be recycled out to other guys. These women have lives outside of you wife hunters.
I think this is much more of a reality if the RW has limited English skills. Even if the emails are not a group effort, some where someone does have to "interpret" what the writer is trying to communicate to the AM when there is limitations due to lack of English skills. How good is that interpretation, is anyone's guess because in the end, it is really the terp's words and not the RW in question.
KenC
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In my home I have two networked computers. A recent girlfriend had very good English and a couple of friends with less good English. Between the four of us we had five PCs.
My home was a popular venue becasue not only did I have a spare computer, I was also available for insights in the psyche of mad Americans and Scandinavians (their usage, not mine although I have since co-opted it!), help with a turn of phrase and in constructing bad English.
The letter writing was a group effort of the women and the fact that one of the team had almost no English was no great handicap as she was the most creative of the three with a wicked sense of humour and knowledge of just how far to push a guy without seeming to totally insult him.
I know that this kind of thing happens in other groups and I am sure that in husband snagging circles these letter writing parties are quite common. At least, it seems better than having an agency do all the work, but these ladies did not use an agency.
But, the bottom line is this. None of the guys who was writing to these women was writing to a real woman, but the stupid idiots were falling in love with these women, or at least telling them so... I can not believe that the men were unique and I do not think the women are unusual.
But, even if we accepted that these people are unique and that such practices never happened anywhere else but in the apartments of myself and this small group of women, it does not make sense to think that that which is written about with care, reflection and consideration reflects the reality of the person and personality when in a spontaneous and natural situation. It can only be an idealisation and a fulfillment of a fantasy, probably on both sides - at least in those cases where the woman actually exists and the man is willing to get a passport and airline ticket.
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[size="3"]KenC started this thread. He is 25 years older than his wife, who was only about 21 or so when they married. Most posters say this age for a RW is much too young, immature etc. After 6 years of marriage he is justifiably proud and confident about the future. After less than one year of marriage with a similar age difference, I am cautious, hopeful but not boasting. My first FSU choice for a life partner (which only lasted a few days of living together in Kiev), was 13 years older than my wife and also with a grown up child, and she was a cheat and a liar. So much for older women being more trustworthy. I never met the 40 years old fraudsters daughter or her mother, but I did meet her phoney "brother".
jb is 12 years older than his wife. His much earlier post hints that women with this age gap might have some severe baggage issues. Agreed, many or most women in the FSU have been abused by the system, their fathers and by FSU men in general.
Tigerpaws is 19 years older than his wife, and he is frank about his motivations. He says, have the gold ring, have it all. I am with Tigerpaws on this one. This is good advice, aim high and you might be surprised. Aim low, and you might get even less than you deserve. "No good deed goes unpunished".
Tiger does seem a bit callous or heartless, but so are a great many FSUW who marry WM. Also, Tiger flaunts his wealth which makes some of the rest of us jealous. But as a wise though rambling man called Ham once said, on the Internet every man is 6 foot 6 and a black belt karate expert, who always flew attack aircraft for the Marines, or Air Force.
KenC I fear you may be a hypocrite. I think Tiger is right even if his motivations and lack of romantic foolishness do not appeal to all. There is no need for a man with a few bucks to marry an FSU woman burdened down by age or children. You and Tigerpaws didn't do it and neither I. Tigers sin is being so darned honest.
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300 Spartans,
I'll tell you why I am not a hypocrite. Even though my wife is stunning and young, I married her because of our love for each other. She didn't need to be so young, because quite frankly, I see her youth as a negative and not a positive thing. She didn't even have to be so beautiful, because I could easily be attracted to a woman of much less beauty than her. But without our mutual love, I would have never married her as I was quite content as a single man.
KenC
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There is a difference. jb is pretty old, 12 years in terms of a proportionate difference is nothing, kinda like me marrying a 36 year old woman. Tigerpaws bought and paid for that which he wanted and yes, if we believe what he writes, it seems to work for him.
Ken is happy to suggest, quite correctly, that his model is not one to follow and he is right, I also guess that he could not think or act as TP has done.
Now, if you are aware of the dynamics, to buy a bride is fine, but unless you are fully aware of what you are doing then it is not for most people. Of course, if you do want to buy a bride, you do not need to buy one with a Russian accent, although some suggest that they come cheaper that way.
So, 300spartans, are you happy to have a wife bought and paid for? Is that what you wanted?
When 'aiming high' it really, really helps to know what the target is. What is your target?
It does not seem to me to be hypocritical to do take a course of action whilst not recommending it to others. I, for example, have a great lifestyle and life, but I would not recommend it to most people - I know full well they could not pull it off. But I am happy to tell anyone, often unasked, that I love my life and am very, very glad made the choices I did. Does that make me a hypocrite? Of course not. The choices about what you do is yours and yours alone. That Ken does not recommend doing what he did does not lessen the value of his marriage, or the worth of his suggestion. That he is right can be seen too often for it to be gainsaid by a sensible person!
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well said ken
yuliya just happens to be 23 and i just happen to be 49. neither one of us set out for this to happen
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I was noticing that my local supermarket had started to color code perishable products they were selling at discount due to the limited shelf life and wondered if it might be applicable to RW/AM age differences, for example:
Color Age Difference
Green Less than 10 years Safe for consumption
Yellow Less than 15 years Warning: limited life, refrigerate immediately
Red Less than 20 years Warning: product may have spoiled, some will be able to consume safety, others not
Black 25 or more years Danger: product has spoiled, eat at your own risk
Now obviously if the product contains preservatives and/or is placed in a first-rate (ie, expensive) refrigerator the self life can be extended.
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I was noticing that my local supermarket had started to color code perishable products they were selling at discount due to the limited shelf life and wondered if it might be applicable to RW/AM age differences, for example:
Color Age Difference
Green Less than 10 years Safe for consumption
Yellow Less than 15 years Warning: limited life, refrigerate immediately
Red Less than 20 years Warning: product may have spoiled, some will be able to consume safety, others not
Black 25 or more years Danger: product has spoiled, eat at your own risk
Now obviously if the product contains preservatives and/or is placed in a first-rate (ie, expensive) refrigerator the self life can be extended.
RacerX,
While this may work for you everyone is different, when I speak I try to do so in broad generalities except in my own case or for those I know very well. While I agree 25 years is pushing the limit, 20 years is still within the flight/love/life envelope as many have shown.
As always I place the burden on the man as it is him who seeks out the lady not the other way around.
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Tiger,
Remember you are one of the 'few' and do not represent the majority.
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Tiger,
Remember you are one of the 'few' and do not represent the majority.
BC,
I guess that all depends on your definition of what is a majority and what is a minority? In the circles we travel in a 15 to 20 year age difference is normal, with the RW couples we know it is the same 15 to 20 year difference, everything depends on your point of view.
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300 Spartans,
I'll tell you why I am not a hypocrite. Even though my wife is stunning and young, I married her because of our love for each other. She didn't need to be so young, because quite frankly, I see her youth as a negative and not a positive thing. She didn't even have to be so beautiful, because I could easily be attracted to a woman of much less beauty than her. But without our mutual love, I would have never married her as I was quite content as a single man.
KenC
KenC,
Love is a wonderful thing, it is also something that can learned over time, if two people are attracted to each other both physically and intellectually, if they have mutual respect and a willingness to make a relationship work then over time love can develop. Maybe it is not your (and others) belief and hope of what love is still if it works then what is the problem?
I went looking for specifically a "traditional" Russian woman with a long family history from the interior of Russia not the big cities. I set rigid guidelines for what I was looking for, age range, height, weight, intelligence, attractiveness, being divorced at least 1 year and without a child. I intentionally narrowed my choices to keep myself focused on exactly what I was looking for, yet the numbers of available ladies was still vast.
I met and spent time with over 32 women who fit within my criteria over a 2 year peroid, traveling to Russia at least 8 times for several weeks at a time within those 2 years before making my decision. Then I spent another year traveling back to Russia another 4 times for 2 to 3 weeks at a time, spending more time with the lady I had selected, plus 3 trips with her to the Caribbean and Paris. Now I understand not everyone has the time off or the resources to follow in my footsteps, still with planning and thought a man can have exactly what he wants, needs and desires in a lady, compromise in not necessary.
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Wow, excellent discussions with great insight from all sides. Apologies in advance for my apparent off-topic post... this thread is quite long and actually covers quite a number of topics.
It's sad that I'm probably going to ignore some of the advice given here, but only because my case is one of the infamous "but my case is different" cases. :P But, in my defense, a few of the pieces of advice that I'll be ignoring also have significant counterpoints.
I met a RW that lives in Latvia through an Internet chat room. I wasn't really interested in finding a RW for dating, but after chatting with her for awhile and deciding that possibly this could turn into something more, I figured it would be a good idea to see the results of AM/RW marriages. I stumbled across this site a few days ago and I've spent several hours digesting quite a bit of it and it's been an extremely valuable resource.
Mainly I was interested in seeing how well RW adjusted and if they could live healthy, happy lives here. My primary concern is for the well-being of this lady. I wouldn't want to pursue the relationship any further if there were significant odds that she would be miserable once she came to the US.
After reading quite a bit of this forum, I've decided that quite likely, assuming we both love each other as much as some of the other couples represented here, she could be very happy.
I'm planning on visiting her in April. If things don't turn out, oh well, I get to see another country and I'll just spend the rest of my time enjoying the Riga nightlife. I'd go sooner, but unavoidable circumstances prevent me from taking time off from work until then.
We've been e-mailing, chatting, SMS and talking on the phone since October. I've heard several opinions on length of communications before actually meeting, and I truly believe that two months versus six months don't really make much difference.
I agree with the popular notion that you don't really know someone just by writing e-mails, letters, online chat, etc, but even during my first marriage, after dating for two years, I was still learning new things about her, even up until it ended. It's sad, seeing someone "24/7" and not really knowing them completely after 10 years.
I believe a lot of this has to do with that elusive concept of "true love," which is something some but not all on this board believe. People change over time. People truly in love tend to change but follow the same path as their mate. People not in love have a chance of growing further apart, and they often do.
Part of it must be a leap of faith and both party's attempt at making the marriage work... that's true of any marriage. Taking more time getting to know your possible future mate could probably improve the odds, but the odds would not get anywhere near 100%, which is what we're all wanting.... or at least that's what I'm wanting, but possibly I'm way too analytical sometimes.
It's probably true that an AM/AW marriage is easier than an AM/RW marriage, but from my reading here it appears that the AM/RW marriages have a significantly better chance at survival... but I think this number is skewed because most if not all of the men here seem to have an above average understanding of the difficulties and solutions for a successful marriage.
As for our age difference, I am 37 and she is 21. For me, that's actually been quite the normal age of my dating experience. During the past five years I've dated 6 different people, five of which were 22 or younger... I've been blessed in that I look significantly younger than my actual age. I'm unsure what attracts me to this specific age group... maybe I just choose the youngest and most beautiful, and since most of the women I date are one's I've met in drinking establishments... well, it stands to reason, no?
I suppose that would put me somewhere in the "red" zone, but again, I argue this is not food, but people with a variety of personalities, so such generalities should be taken with a grain of salt.
I've learned quite a bit about some of the problems with AM/RW marriages... I live in Manhattan, so the "driver's license" thing doesn't really matter much.... I've not owned nor driven a car for several years, so I seriously doubt if I married this lady she would require a driver's license either. But possibly that would be a bad assumption if the marriage never worked out... I'll have to consider this problem.
Thanks to everyone who so far have participated in this thread as well the many other pertinent threads on this board. Your insight has given me significant information on topics I seek but have had no experience.
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[user=17]TigerPaws[/user] wrote:
KenC,
Love is a wonderful thing, it is also something that can learned over time, if two people are attracted to each other both physically and intellectually, if they have mutual respect and a willingness to make a relationship work then over time love can develop. Maybe it is not your (and others) belief and hope of what love is still if it works then what is the problem?
I went looking for specifically a "traditional" Russian woman with a long family history from the interior of Russia not the big cities. I set rigid guidelines for what I was looking for, age range, height, weight, intelligence, attractiveness, being divorced at least 1 year and without a child. I intentionally narrowed my choices to keep myself focused on exactly what I was looking for, yet the numbers of available ladies was still vast.
I met and spent time with over 32 women who fit within my criteria over a 2 year peroid, traveling to Russia at least 8 times for several weeks at a time within those 2 years before making my decision. Then I spent another year traveling back to Russia another 4 times for 2 to 3 weeks at a time, spending more time with the lady I had selected, plus 3 trips with her to the Caribbean and Paris. Now I understand not everyone has the time off or the resources to follow in my footsteps, still with planning and thought a man can have exactly what he wants, needs and desires in a lady, compromise in not necessary.
Tigerpaws,
I applaud your planning and your steadfast adherence to your course of action. It all sounds like a calculated and well executed battle plan. And best of all, it worked for you! BRAVO! Then on the other hand, a guy can phone a young hottie in Russia ,on a lark, without a plan, without any plans of marriage and arrive at exactly the same destination as you. (Like I did) What does this prove? That there is no "set" method in this process.
I agree that love can be a slow evolving emotion that manifests itself over time between a couple sharing their life experiences with each other. All the "proof" you need that "it works" is your mutual happiness.
KenC
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SgtFlame,
Welcome to RWD! Very nice second post too. Don't worry too much about being slightly off topic on this thread because it has taken on it's own long and winding road.:?
Your age difference of 16 years is quite typical in this process and far from being a stretch from what you write. But I did get a chuckle out of your "but I look much younger" statement. That too is a very typical and unnecessary justification used in this process.:cool:
The danger of corresponding for too long is that there is a tendency for the relationship to become a fantasy for the two of you. The two of you can imagine your relationship right into something that is not real or true. It may be difficult for any real relationship to live up to the fantasy that can develop. But your schedule is what it is and you will have to deal with it, just beware.
You wrote:
It's probably true that an AM/AW marriage is easier than an AM/RW marriage, but from my reading here it appears that the AM/RW marriages have a significantly better chance at survival... but I think this number is skewed because most if not all of the men here seem to have an above average understanding of the difficulties and solutions for a successful marriage.
Please understand that there is an unusually high number of successfully married guys on this forum. I sincerely doubt that the percentages of successful RW/AM marriages is better than AW/AM marriages. There are many many horror stories regarding crash & burns associated with this process. This should be considered a difficult and high risk venture at all times. Best of luck to you.
KenC
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That there is no "set" method in this process.
:clapping:
Like the proverb say :" All the roads lead to Rome"... the method used in the process have no importance, only the final goal who need to be reached is importance...
All poster here give advice or conseil about method who work for themself... each newbies need to use them in the way that past to him... copy and use the method of a other can lead to big mistake...
A forum like these allow newbies to take some part of advise and build his own personal tools.
Ken, you sentence up have earn a good place in the ten basic rule.
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Ken wrote:
[size="3"][size="2"]Your age difference of 16 years is quite typical in this process and far from being a stretch from what you write.
[/size]
[/size][/b][size="2"]Welcome SgtFlame, Nice to see a new person jump right in with a serious post.
From what I've seen, age gaps of 12 to 16 years seems a norm in this business[/size][size="3"][size="2"],[/size][/size][size="3"][size="2"] I wouldn't worry too much about the age difference.
There are some other aspects in your case that make it special, your lady is from a capitol city in an emerging EU country, not a backwater village in Ukraine. This is good, if for no other reason, you won't have the hassle of getting a visa to visit her, you can pretty much come and go as you wish.
Odds are good she enjoys a pretty nice life in Riga, she is not existing in the quiet desperation that is so commonly seen as the prime motivator for some women seeking a foreign spouse, your relationship should get plus points in that regard. Anytime I see a man who is playing the part of "Knight in Shining Armor", being the generous rescuer, saving the damsel from a fate worse than death, I almost weep. This not being the case, there's a good chance this lady is interested in you for all the right reasons.
I do see the delay in a face-to-face meeting as a negative, not because it will spoil your chance for a happy life together, but for your sake, please understand that in 6 months she could meet any number of other men, if she is all you say and think she is, you need to get on the ball. You said you live in NYC, cheap flights abound out of NY to London, Amsterdam, Paris, maybe even Riga, she should also be able to travel freely within the EU, perhaps a quick meeting somewhere could be arranged for a 3 or 4 day weekend. There are a great many men here on this board who would kill for such ease in meeting the love interest in their lives. Imagine the poor dumb shmuck who tries to court a woman from Vladivostok, RU and requires 3 days travel time to get there.
You have the ball in your court, go get 'em~!
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SgtFlame,
While jb and I rarely agree, you should seriously consider heading over the pond within the next 90 days if you are really interested in meeting this girl. In todays MOB world writing for too long would be a mistake, clean up your affairs and make your reservations to meet this girl the sooner the better and have a back up plan just in case.
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[size="3"]KenC wrote:
There are many many horror stories regarding crash & burns associated with this process. ([/size][size="3"]finding a wife in the FSU[/size][size="3"]) This should be considered a difficult and high risk venture at all times. Best of luck to you.
[/size][size="3"][color="darkred"]'..luck'? 'high risk'? :shock::D Right.
To a degree, Life Is A Gamble. It's okay to acknowledge that reality and take it into consideration. Any worthwhile venture or adventure requires risking something. If you take no risks, you'll lead a dull life, and if you take too many high-stake risks, you'd better be prepared for a huge loss or two. Most of us choose a middle ground, don't we? Yes, ...best of luck to you. [/color][/size][size="3"][color="darkred"]Live long and prosper. [/color]
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Point taken... and you are quite right. I guess I'd been trying to plan a longer trip for our first meeting... and there's really no reason for that.
A "single date" trip, where I leave 6-7pm Friday evening would put me into Riga around 2pm on Saturday (Riga TZ) with an easy trip returning that Sunday.... assuming I could sleep on the plane to help reduce the effects of jet lag, I think it'd be perfect.... not to mention the fact that the air fare is $400 - $500 :shock:
Thanks for the advice, I'll definately be taking it.
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Doug ~ No, life is not a gamble.
Taking risks is not gambling, but a true gambler does not take risks. He knows EXACTLY what he is doing and he knows EXACTLY what the payoff is. In life we do not know these things, but we can work to reduce the risks. You, Doug, have used these words before to justify a course of (in)action. The sensible person acts to reduce the risks, not to ignore them.
Sgt Flame ~ Good, get on the plane and then, if things go well, make concrete plans to return within a very short space of time. Tell your interlocutor, before you return to the US, that you are going to return. In fact, if you are well prepared, you will tell her when you are going to return BEFORE you get on the plane to go back home. There is no reason not to be able to do this.
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Photo,
Race drivers, astronauts, climbers, divers and many other take risks for pleasure and that adrenaline rush.. BUT NOT UNNECESSARY RISKS!!!!
Life may be dull but you won't convince me that crossing streets without looking will make it more enjoyable and worthwhile...
Most of the crash & burns I've seen and heard of were usually folks throwing caution to the wind, right and left..
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Photo,
There are calculated risks and there are foolish risks. You fall into the second catagory.
KenC
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Something to check out here. Several have told SgtFlame that his RW gals can easily get a visa to USA and that she can travel freely within Europe. I am not sure this is true. Here is my understanding . . . which may not be correct.
I was in the Baltics a few years back, but well after the Soviet breakup. There was a dichotomy between the natives of those countries and those of Russian background. The countries did not give automatic citizenship to those with a Russian background. I remember one of the countries said they would not give auto citizenship unless persons ancestors were living in that country in something like before 1939 or some such. It was a deliberate design to exclude Russians from auto citizenship.
Next, the countries instituted exams that needed to be taken and passed to get citizenship. But, as I understood it, these exams were fairly difficult . . . . nothing like our simple exam for citizenship.
So, in summary, I believe there are many ethnic Russians living in the Baltics who do not have citizenship papers for those countries. Thus, it seems logical that such persons will not get easy visas to USA, nor will they be able to travel freely within Western Europe.
Note: I am not claiming this is true. I just have put together a logical argument given some of the facts I knew a few years back.
Others probably have more up to date info on this topic.
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Albert,
all you write was maybe true before the European Communauty begin work together with Latvia...
28.09.2005
Almost 80% of people living in Latvia hold Latvian citizenship.
The Law on Citizenship was adopted in 1995. In elaborating its citizenship legislation, Latvia took into account recommendations from international human rights organisations such as the UN, the Council of Europe, and the OSCE. These organisations have acknowledged that Latvia's citizenship legislation corresponds to the norms of democracy and human rights. Several amendments to the Law have been made in consultation with experts from the OSCE and the Council of Europe.
The major part of all applicants for citizenship consists of Russian residents and forms 68.1%. Due to the successful naturalization process, in 2004 for the first time the citizens of Russian nationality outnumbered the non-citizens of Russian nationality. At the beginning of 2005, 53% or 346,746 individuals among the residents of Russian nationality in Latvia had obtained citizenship.
The effectiveness of the naturalisation process is confirmed by the continuously high pass rates achieved in naturalisation tests - more than 90% of applicants pass at first attempt.
The OSCE High Commissioner on National Minorities has stated that Latvia has fulfilled all his recommendations regarding citizenship. The European Union has welcomed the amendments made to the Law on Citizenship and the continuing process of naturalisation.
More info at http://www.am.gov.lv/en/policy/4641/4642/4651/ (http://www.am.gov.lv/en/policy/4641/4642/4651/)
So, Albert, same if it is a short time that Latvia is part of Europa, they follow very good the given European Law over ethnic minority... if you read all at the link up, you will see that your information are not more update :cool:
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80% of the people living in Latvia have citizenship, this means that of the population of 2.3 million 460,000 are not citizens.
Of the population of Latvia some 700,000 are of Russian, or other FSU, ethnic origin.
This means that some 70% of the 'Russian' population do not have Latvian citizenship. Russian refers, in general, to ALL from other FSU countries. The numbers quoted do not add up correctly, the only figure that can be taken at face value is the headline one of 'almost 80%', that which follows is not consistent with this figure.
It was necessary to massage the figures in order to allow the accession of latvia to the EU and thus headline figures such as 80% became important.
For the original poster not much of this matters. A visa to the US will be granted, or not, based not upon the passport type of the holder but upon their circumstances. Also, whilst visas have to be applied for by 'stateless persons' - non Latvians living permanently in latvia, for almost all countries of the EU, they are rarely refused but it is important to do the paperwork correctly.
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SgtFlame ~ I'm curious, is this girl Russian and have you asked her what her feelings are about Russians?
Having met a couple of Latvian girls the past months here, I was taken aback that both hated Russia, and refused to speak Russian to my RW wife. I would say their attitude and general demenor were more akin to Polish girls.
I only mention this because the wealth of experience for guys on this board generally runs more towards RW/UW than the other FSU countries.
The other, we often call them "red flags," problem with the age difference is not about the gap - which is rather large considering her tender age, but more so that 21 is the normal marrying age for RW FIRST MARRIAGES. RW tend to marry and divorce at early ages, so caveat emptor.
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Andrewfin,
Your advice to married men would be funny, were you not so serious. You are a self styled playboy without money or decent income. You do not intend to ever marry an FSUW. You envy those than can afford to do so, especially where a large age gap exists.
You missed my point to KenC. Which is the irony of his fierce defence of over 30 years of age women, whilst marrying one much younger than any that Tiger would even have been willing to meet.
Tiger, why did your women to meet have to be divorced? I married an under 30 years female from a big city who had never been married before. I am not sure that remote area girls are as naieve and inexperienced as you might have hoped. My guess is that the worse circumstances the woman comes from, the greater the chance of her being willing to take unethical or heartless actions later on. But with your finances, you could marry a NYC gold digger and be OK methinks.
Oh and a point to all and sundry. Women on Russian language internet meeting sites (i.e. non agency), living in both Russia and the West, generally want to meet men in their own age group, maybe ten or fifteen years older - or younger. My wife is perhaps unusual in that her previous serious FSU boyfriend, with their relationship lasting several years, is many more years older than I am. There are a small minority of women that prefer an older man. So if a man insists on selecting much younger women, try and find one of these. jb is right though, there may be some baggage issues. Yet many or most women in the FSU would be considered manic depressive by western standards, and not just the young ones. Yes the FSU men are crazy too.
To all trusting optimistic newbies, leave all that trust behind if you go the FSU. You will learn to mistrust, frown at people and be cautious all over again, or maybe for the first time in your life. Pessimism and a gloomy outlook on life is no handicap for the WM seeking a bride. American positivity seems ridiculous in the FSU.
Lastly, I found that for whatever reason that women aged 27 to 29 often liked me more than women in the 30 years and up bracket. At first, I met only women aged about 33 and upwards. So like KenC I found that personal mutual attraction was more important than the age issue.
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300Spartans,
You missed my point to KenC. Which is the irony of his fierce defence of over 30 years of age women, whilst marrying one much younger than any that Tiger would even have been willing to meet.
Just FYI, I did not miss the irony of my posts in defence of women over 30.:toocool:
KenC
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300Spartans ~ coming out of the woodwork at the moment are we not...
When you have something substantive to say other than a few words that you imagine to be both truthful and slighting say 'em. Till then zip it till you DO know something.
Again, as with another new poster here, I have not the foggiest idea who you are, but obviously you carry some baggage with you. It helps neither me, or other readers of this board when you lumber around carrying your burden of misplaced anger and resentment.
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Till then zip it till you DO know something
Andrew, perhaps a little introspection is in order.
From what I recall reading here and on the other board you: are not Russian, you are not married, you are not looking for a RW wife, you have no experience with agencies, you don't have alot of money, you are not particularly fond of those RW who have come to America (especially the younger ones), and you feel many Americans are buffoons.
Gee, I dunno, are you sure this is a good place for you to discuss whatever it is you're looking for?
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[user=150]300spartans[/user] wrote:
Tiger, why did your women to meet have to be divorced? I married an under 30 years female from a big city who had never been married before. I am not sure that remote area girls are as naieve and inexperienced as you might have hoped. My guess is that the worse circumstances the woman comes from, the greater the chance of her being willing to take unethical or heartless actions later on. But with your finances, you could marry a NYC gold digger and be OK methinks.
300spartans: It has been my experience that a woman who has been married then divorced has at least some idea of what it is like to live with a man in a committed relationship on a daily basis. Sure you could say that living with someone is similar but it is not the same as that committment which comes with a marrage. In my experience a woman who has had a failed marrage but is still committed to the idea of building a relationship and having a family will be far more committed to trying harder the second time around. She will have learned (hopefully) from her mistakes and will understand what it takes to make a relationship work. Again in general a woman who has never been married will have to go through that whole learning process of what it is like to live with a man and I was not willing to go through that again.
Having spent 3 years in Krasonyarsk Russia and the surrounding areas I beg to differ with you 300spartans, I found the vast majority of girls from the Siberian regions to be very different than the larger cities. Additionally there is a cultural difference between girls from the interior and those from the cities, of course I am speaking in large generalities but spend enough time in Siberia and you will come to understand the differences.
LoL! As for a NYC gold digger? Sure but why bother with an already spoiled bitch who only knows how to say ME, ME and MINE, MINE! Los Angeles has many of those as well, beautiful spoiled bitches. Given the oppertunity why would you or any man choose a spoiled bitch? The FSU offers the perfect oppertunty for a man to remain anonymous while searching out for exactly the kind of lady he is interested in and with a far better oppertunity to find one who is unspoiled.
We (men) all have our wants, needs and desires and given the oppertunity and the availability of nearly unlimited choices of women within the FSU why not seek out exactly what will make you happy? I am not saying that a man could not find such a girl here in America but the choices are far, far smaller so why not look to fresh hunting grounds such as the FSU and not compromise on what you want?
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God bless America!
Only in this country one has an oppertunity to become wealthy without being able to spell! :D
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God bless America!
Only in this country one has an oppertunity to become wealthy without being able to spell! :D
You try using a stylus to type a long post on a PDA and see how well you do!
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God bless America!
Only in this country one has an oppertunity to become wealthy without being able to spell! :D
Thank God that this country recognizes the value of productivity or we too could have store clerks with PHD's like Russia.
KenC
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With all due respect Ken I do remember something about the 'Great Depression' that similarly affected the US in 1929..
I would think productivity back then wasn't worth squat either..
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:offtopic:
BC,
Actually, I think your wrong. A lot of this country's infrastructure (Dams, bridges, highways) was built during that time along with major replantings of our forests. This country has always found a way to be productive even in bad economic times.
KenC
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Hello Tiger Paws,
My Oksana lives in Krasnoyarsk, and I have been there. She does not like people in Moscow or other large cities. What did you do for three years in Krasnoyarsk area? It seems like the city has some industry, perhaps Aluminium refining? People seemed friendly there to me.
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Hello Tiger Paws,
My Oksana lives in Krasnoyarsk, and I have been there. She does not like people in Moscow or other large cities. What did you do for three years in Krasnoyarsk area? It seems like the city has some industry, perhaps Aluminium refining? People seemed friendly there to me.
Wayne,
The largest Bauxite mine the the world is located just outside of Krasnoyarsk and 26 km north is the main storage depot for all of the former Soviet Union's Nukes, over 15,500 warheads. One of my companies was part of a large construction project building a reprocessing facility at the sortage depot.
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Hello Tiger Paws,
My Oksana lives in Krasnoyarsk, and I have been there. She does not like people in Moscow or other large cities.
Wayne brings home point I have been trying to make for some time now, in general the girls from Siberia are very different than those from the larger cities. Depending on the kind and type of girl you are looking for the hunting grounds are far better in the interior of Russia than anywhere else.
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And conversely, Wayne would have a difficult time acclimating a woman from Moscow to Traverse City, MI. Which only proves that there is more to consider than just ages difference.
KenC
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Actually there do not seem to be many gals who come from really smaller cities in the FSU. The smaller cities are a million of so. I think the adjustment will be about the same for anyone. If you move to travse city to me it would seem about the same for a gal from Moscow as one from Perm or Omsk or St Petersburgh.
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Turbo,
If you meant that a RW from any large city would have a difficult time with a small city in America, I agree. These "urban" RW even have a difficult time with our suburbs. When my wife moved to our upscale suburban area, she thought she was living in a "village" (not a compliment). It takes some getting used to for them.
There seems to be a trend now for guys to search in the less populated areas and smaller cities in the fsu. There is also the possibility of hooking up with a "village girl" that has moved to a bigger city in the fsu. I think the small town AM have to really consider this as a potential problem. Hell, I know I would go nuts if I had to live in Traverse City! Even though I had a summer home near there.
KenC
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That is about what I meant Ken, but I think part of my point is that there are not too many gals who live in a small city.
We hear about Moscow and Kiev etc then we get a letter from Lets say Nizhniy Novgorod which we don't hear much about and we think small city. We ask the population, well 2 million. Two million is 5 times the size of Pittsburgh. and of course Pittsburgh is 20 times bigger than where I live.
I visited Krivoy Rog one time but was in the outskirts. I thought it was a small city. Little did I know.
My point was that if you want to concentrate on a village girl it might be hard. Ukraine seems like thy might be easier to find than Russia.
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I don't think it's so much the big town small town thing as being able to go shopping 'by legs'.. the midnight kiosk run, the bakery, meatstore, market and mom/pop grocery is tough to beat unless you're right downtown.
The towns I have seen in FSU seem to be small geographically but the population density is way up there. The town we live in now is about the same size as my wife's town.. here population 12,000 there 120,000.. in the US maybe it would be 1,200! Since most in FSU don't have cars, necessities are usually within quick walking distance wherever you live.
I think a lot of RW would be happy to at least initially have such stores within walking distance instead of having to wait for hubby to get home from work to fix supper. Maybe it's that little bit of 'independance' by being able to go shop alone what is really missed..
Of course all extremely off topic.. but what the heck.. if you can't find out enough about age differences in the 30 previous pages I don't think you'll find it anywhere :P
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BC has a good point. I have become so used to having most everything I need within a couple of minutes walk and that is pretty normal for most people. I read somewhere that the 'average American' will not walk more than 650' without using a car. For many, if not most urban dwellers in the FSU, we walk less distance to our shops.
I know from a friend, in Finland, that she feels very isolated, living as she describes it 'in the forest'. She actually lives in a suburb of a small town, To hear her tell it, she lives in the middle of the big dark forest with polar bears and attack wolves around every corner!
Living, for most in the FSU, even those from rural communities is relatively dense. The wide open spaces of suburban societies is quite agoraphobic.
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Andrew,
In the US I had to use a car to just to cross the street.. no crosswalk anywhere in sight even at stoplights. This was a 10 mile long 4 block wide kinda town and the main street was 4 lanes with a 'suicide' lane in the middle..
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BC has a good point. I have become so used to having most everything I need within a couple of minutes walk and that is pretty normal for most people. I read somewhere that the 'average American' will not walk more than 650' without using a car. For many, if not most urban dwellers in the FSU, we walk less distance to our shops.
I know from a friend, in Finland, that she feels very isolated, living as she describes it 'in the forest'. She actually lives in a suburb of a small town, To hear her tell it, she lives in the middle of the big dark forest with polar bears and attack wolves around every corner!
Living, for most in the FSU, even those from rural communities is relatively dense. The wide open spaces of suburban societies is quite agoraphobic.
This is one of the reasons that Elena calls this a village. No crosswalks, bus service only every couple of hours, no sidewalks. We live 2 miles from her work but she has taken her life in her hands each time she has walked to work. Not to mention the young bucks whistling at her and giving her the "I'll give you a ride" crap. I don't let her walk anymore because of these kinds of incidents.
Ken
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When my lady first arrived she said much the same things about the city where we lived calling it a village where everything was far away and difficult to get to. In the first 6 months she was here I spent more time in San Francisco with her then in the previous 10 years combined (I really dislike big cities). But as time went on she began to see the merits of life away from the big cities and in a few years understood the desire to get away from the problems of big city life.
The village my lady came from had about 50,000 people living there, over half the streets were not paived. There was no restaurants in town, the nearest was a 1 hour bus ride, the shops were extremily small selling only the bare necessities, the only factory was closed and life was/is very difficult.
Things have not improved at all in the 6 years sense my lady left in fact life has become far more difficult as more and more young people leave for the large cities to find work and the hope of a better life. Rual Russia is dying.
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I visited Krivoy Rog one time but was in the outskirts. I thought it was a small city. Little did I know.
My point was that if you want to concentrate on a village girl it might be hard. Ukraine seems like thy might be easier to find than Russia.
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Till then zip it till you DO know something
Andrew, perhaps a little introspection is in order.
From what I recall reading here and on the other board you: are not Russian, you are not married, you are not looking for a RW wife, you have no experience with agencies, you don't have alot of money, you are not particularly fond of those RW who have come to America (especially the younger ones), and you feel many Americans are buffoons.
Gee, I dunno, are you sure this is a good place for you to discuss whatever it is you're looking for?
I know what I am looking for. But please reread the previous posts before making any more silly comments, it makes an idiot look even more foolish. I realise that for some, buffoonery is a favourite pastime, it is not mine. If I write something it is based upon knowledge and usually experience as well. Much of what is written here on this board and others is based upon neither. Where that knowledge and insight comes from is my own business.
As to my income, well, come back and talk to me about that, when you have a life satisfying enough that you do not have to share in the pointless attempt to take inaccurate and unfounded pot-shots at a target moving waaaay too fast for you.
This board will not be improved when the lunatics take over the asylum. But I guess that this insight depends upon whether you are one of the lunatics or not.
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SgtFlame ~ I'm curious, is this girl Russian and have you asked her what her feelings are about Russians?
Having met a couple of Latvian girls the past months here, I was taken aback that both hated Russia, and refused to speak Russian to my RW wife. I would say their attitude and general demenor were more akin to Polish girls.
I only mention this because the wealth of experience for guys on this board generally runs more towards RW/UW than the other FSU countries.
The other, we often call them "red flags," problem with the age difference is not about the gap - which is rather large considering her tender age, but more so that 21 is the normal marrying age for RW FIRST MARRIAGES. RW tend to marry and divorce at early ages, so caveat emptor.
She is Russian, recently taking the Latvian citizenship tests. She speaks Latvian, but she definately prefers Russian. She has a few friends, but I'm unsure if they're Latvian or Russian.
I'm hoping 22 or 23 is the age of her first marriage... and lets hope we skip the first divorce, if it turns out I'm the one she marries. :?
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This fits into the whole large age difference aspect of this thread, has anyone else followed the twists and turns of this case?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10606237/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10606237/)
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Well, one things for sure: even KenC will agree that 63 years is pushing the envelope! :cool:
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Well, one things for sure: even KenC will agree that 63 years is pushing the envelope! :cool:
Ah! But what a ride while it lasts.
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OK, I'll bite, and not be offended by either answer: Do we look good together or look like daughter/father? Photo attached.
Kevin C.
Yes, and Yes.
Kevin, go look at my friend Wasson65 and his Lili. He is 37, she is 22. <GRIN>
Natasha is 16 years younger than I am.
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Since David has seen fit to spill the beans, I'll subject myself and my situation to the judgement of others.
Now, to be fair, her mother likes me, and was looking at the two of us sitting together in her kitchen, and says "Ahh, good. Same face!" and points at us two.
The age difference (I'm 37, she's 22) worried me a little at first. But she has been through so much with her previous boyfriend, I came to be comfortable with the idea that she was, in certain areas, wise beyond her years.
Music - I like new stuff as well as old, we bought cd's together while I was there, so we can rock out in the car to the same tunes.
Movies - We discussed this, she likes the chick-flick stuff with Julia Roberts, and I enjoy her stuff as well. And we watched Police Academy 2 while I was there (overdubbed in Russian), and we both bust out laughing at the same things, giggling together.
Dinner and dancing - She orders for me, we figure out how big a meal I want beforehand, and we're fine! And McDonalds is the same the world over... What she did cook for me was good hearty food, and I loved eating it. As far as the dancing, we've only gone once, but compared to most of the Russian guys, I must be John Freaking Travolta. We've also talked about learning ballroom dancing.
Other hobbies: She likes shooting pool, and I've got a pool table. I like sailing, and she likes boats. She's gone rock-climbing, I wouldn't mind hiking around a bit at all.
She has a three year old son, we play matchbox cars together, and I carry him around on my shoulders.
One things for sure, we make each other smile alot - even my ex-wife says I look really happy with Lily! 8-)
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Nope, too much age difference. It won't work. :puke:
Just kidding. You too look great together. There are mature 22 year olds and immature 50 year olds. Since he is not here I will say just look at Anono if you don't believe the part about immature 50 year olds. I am kidding about that too. You two will be fine. If you are happy and enjoy being together that is what is important. That is not a big age difference.
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Wasson, you have a real beauty there. I would say you do look much older but as a couple you look very happy together. You do not look like a bad match at all, I see a nice couple. This thing of age is all in the mind. You are as young or old as you feel.
The one thing that rings true is that you are not likely to see such large age differences among American couples. Maybe 8 - 10 years at the most.
If a young RW is willing to marry an older AM and it is true love, I think we need to accept it. Not every relationship is a scam.
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I've resurrected another thread.
What is a large age difference when you look for your future
wife in the FSU. In my opinion it depends on how good you
look, how fit you are and your social skills.
If you are Decent looking, fit, have good social skills, have
a good income and live in a desirable area then you can take
your age and subtract ten years at most. If you seek more
then you need to have substantially better social skills, looks,
and other things.
If you try to push the envelope then you are going to still find
women who will reply to you but you will also find more women
who have dubious goals.
Above all you want a good girl and women with dubious goals
aren't part of what you seek.
Udachi!
Bill
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As I have stated before here . . . I had to go with large age difference for the sex aspects.
Most women my age (both when I started looking and, of course, now) have zero interest in sex . . . and many say even the thought of sex they find disgusting.
As to the problems with large age difference . . . I encountered zero in my search and have experienced zero with my now Ukrainian wife. We are coming up on 6 years of marriage and have lived together full time for about 9 and half years.
We even exchange laughs and smiles when watching TV shows etc., when someone mentions problems with 'older' men, etc. She comments on this now and then.
Interesting also, that because of my over production of oil, I have fewer wrinkles around the eyes than she does.
She also asks me infrequently if other men my age are having sex. I tell her that I think only a few of them. She then comments how lucky I am. But then I tell her it is she who is lucky. She smiles and agrees.
Now how will this play out as the years advance ? Who knows. My Mother (whom people think I take after and look more like than my Father) is still alive going on 98 in November.
So might I actually live longer than my wife ? Probably not as her Grandmother also lived into her mid 90s, even in the harsh conditions in Ukraine of WWII, Communism, working in fields her entire life, etc.
Have we had problems in our marriage? Yes indeed. But none were related to age difference.
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I have seen large age gaps work successfully. It seems to depend on the couple involved and their commitment to making it work.
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Depends on the guy , what he has to offer . I plan going to the gym , just like I have been for the past 9 years .
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The OP was 25 years older than his wife. She never wanted kids until one
day she decided that she did.
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Understanding the Teen Brain
The University of Rochester Medical Center
It doesnt matter how smart teens are or how well they scored on the SAT
or ACT. Good judgment isnt something they can excel in, at least not yet.
The rational part of a teens brain isnt fully developed and wont be until
age 25 or so.
In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently.
Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brains rational part. This is the
part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an
awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with
the amygdala. This is the emotional part.
Read the entire article here
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051
Is 25 the new cut-off point for adulthood?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194
Why is 18 the age of adulthood if the brain can take 30 years to mature?
http://bigthink.com/mind-brain/adult-brain
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Good judgment isnt something they can excel in, at least not yet.
The rational part of a teens brain isnt fully developed and wont be until
age 25 or so.
In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently.
Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brains rational part. This is the
part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an
awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with
the amygdala. This is the emotional part.
Why is 18 the age of adulthood if the brain can take 30 years to mature? [/b][/size]
This backs up Winston's comment about political leanings of his children over time.
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It simply depends on the comlatability of the two individuals.
I would cringe if my kids had found love with a guy old enough to have fathered them, but I count as friends a couple with a 33 years age gap. They have kids aged 12 and 7 and he nearly died of a brain haemorrhage.
His wife cared for him and she is now the bread winner as he lost his biz...He was a qualified balloon pilot and could fly fee paying clients.
Are they an exception?..Possibly, so..But I see great love and a happy family.
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This backs up Winston's comment about political leanings of his children over time.
Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over thirty who is not a conservative has no brains.
― Winston S. Churchill
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I had always sought comlatability because if I didn't have it I feared
haemorrhage could occur.
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Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over thirty who is not a conservative has no brains.
― Winston S. Churchill
http://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/ (http://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/)
Google was used to retrieve the above (known to me) website.
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http://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/ (http://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/)
Google was used to retrieve the above (known to me) website.
I have been wrong before, looks like I am once again. I found a website
that attributed it to him but the internet is wrong just as often as I am.
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7441607-any-man-under-30-who-is-not-a-liberal-has
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I recall this thread - spent some time reading through it when I first joined way back when...
Scanning now and still shaking my head....🙄
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I recall this thread - spent some time reading through it when I first joined way back when...
Scanning now and still shaking my head....🙄
We've somehow turned into the all politics all the time forum
so I thought I would turn over a few stones and reintroduced
some old threads to see if anyone wanted to get back to the
FSU discussion.
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Whatever happened to TG? Think he held the age diff record 'round here.
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I posted this in another thread, but really, it belongs here. For those of you who think a large age gap is acceptable, here is an opportunity to read what RW are saying behind your back. The poll at the top of the page indicates the acceptable age difference. There were 23 respondents and only 1 thought 16+ years was ok.
However, the comments are far more interesting! If you do not read Russian, use one of the free translators on the web. Be forewarned that the comments are pretty vicious. These RW do not pull any punches when it comes to a man writing to an RW half his age. Yet, this is real.
For those of you who are married to much younger women, I'm not posting this to be disrespectful. I will guess you, or more likely your wives, have heard it all before. I don't imagine you need to read this, it will not make your day.
http://www.antidate.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243 (http://www.antidate.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243)
I used to visit anitdate often, but I dont have access to this link. Can anyone else see it?
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I used to visit anitdate often, but I dont have access to this link. Can anyone else see it?
They had a big broom wreck, stopped paying their bills and they
nagged the wrong person too much and now they are gone.
(http://media1.tenor.com/images/e5422bbd46fac0ba0342b85dae56fd7d/tenor.gif?itemid=12645867)
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Whatever happened to TG? Think he held the age diff record 'round here.
I haven't heard from Ray for a few years, but ironically, last I heard, he and Irina were still together (but that's a while back)....
Ray was "The Defender" of the faith.
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turn over a few stones and reintroduced
some old threads to see if anyone wanted to get back to the
FSU discussion.
Times were.....
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They had a big broom wreck, stopped paying their bills and they
nagged the wrong person too much and now they are gone.
(http://media1.tenor.com/images/e5422bbd46fac0ba0342b85dae56fd7d/tenor.gif?itemid=12645867)
There's still a few of them flying around
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Whatever happened to TG? Think he held the age diff record 'round here.
He was here in Feb 2020
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24087.msg527412#msg527412
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Yep, and back today.
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I haven't heard from Ray for a few years, but ironically, last I heard, he and Irina were still together (but that's a while back)....
Ray was "The Defender" of the faith.
Just as an update we are still together. I believe assuming nothing unexpected happens for in the months ahead we will have completed 15 years of married life late this year. I am amazed that anyone could put up with me for such a long time.
Someone mentioned the age difference which for us is 37 1/2 years. I would not recommend that for anyone and if I am honest I have to say it did create a few issues but pretty much manageable issues for us.
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Yep, and back today.
Try not to come around so much that you wear out your welcome. :ROFL:
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Thank you for the sage advice Grumpy. :cluebat:
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Just as an update we are still together. I believe assuming nothing unexpected happens for in the months ahead we will have completed 15 years of married life late this year. I am amazed that anyone could put up with me for such a long time.
Someone mentioned the age difference which for us is 37 1/2 years. I would not recommend that for anyone and if I am honest I have to say it did create a few issues but pretty much manageable issues for us.
Good to see you around Ray.
Too bad about our Steelers this year.
I didn't realize that Irina was that much older than you.
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I didn't realize that Irina was that much older than you.
I didn't either but if she is 37 1/2 years older than me she is looking pretty good for someone getting close to 120 years old. :popcorn:
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Good to see you again TG and thanks for the update!
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I am amazed that anyone could put up with me
Me too.. :P
Ray, great to see you're still around and doing well.
For those who don't know Ray, I always thought he was too much the defender of the age gap advocates but, a finer gentleman with whom to conduct an online debate, one would doubtful find.
Ray, that ability to remain unruffled has no doubt served your marriage to an intelligent and exasperating, as most of them are, Russian woman, very well.
I wish you as many happy years as you've already had together but if I crunch some numbers, that probably a stretch...🤭
All the best, you're one of the best....
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Thanks for the nice comments. I appreciate it and it was nice to see both of you are still around and doing well. I think the ability to remain unruffled could probably make married to a RW much easier. I can't say we have ever had an argument in the decade and a half we have been together but I do think the ability to not get ruffled helped with that. Of course picking a good woman is the real key to success.
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Thanks for the nice comments. I appreciate it and it was nice to see both of you are still around and doing well. I think the ability to remain unruffled could probably make married to a RW much easier. I can't say we have ever had an argument in the decade and a half we have been together but I do think the ability to not get ruffled helped with that. Of course picking a good woman is the real key to success.
Turbo, are you actually saying there has been no argument because an argument must be a two sided event ? i.e. Your ability to remain unruffled !
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This subject is constantly thought about by the Newbies and lurkers out there.
Do you want to have a long term successful marriage or do you want a short
term arm trophy who will eventually dump you and go elsewhere.
This is not the only thread about this. You can also find these threads if you look
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5714.0
And here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7419.0
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Bill's general theory of FSUW age relativity
Each man has what should be considered a package.
1. Looks: How purdy are you?
2. Physique: This includes height, weight, muscles, stanima or the lack thereof.
3. Social skills: How well do you function in a social situation with women?
4. FSU experience: Have you dated one of these creatures before?
5. Language: Can you say more than Da ili nyet? Do you know what ili means?
Can you read any Cyrillic?
6. Living/Lifestyle?
Do you live on a beach in Hawaii? (good) in Nome Alaska (bad) in your
mothers basement (bad) Last wife was eaten by a crocodile (bad) local
cannibals (bad) The oil fields of Norf Dakoty (bad) member of a cult (bad)
7. How much time, money and energy can you spend on this pursuit?
8. Money: If you make more than $100K or less than $100K add or
subract 1 year depending on if you are above or below that number.
Two weeks of vacation per year and/or using credit cards to pay for it
is dividing by zero, living on the moon without a space helmet, getting into
a shootout without a gun or bullets. Stop! Fix your situation then come back
only after you fixed it.
Assign a value to each of these things from one to five and add up your points
then divide by 8. This is your value number.
Take your age, subtract 10 years then subtract your value number. This is your
X factor. Special note: Every value number is less than 4 then you add 1 year to
your X factor.
If you have 4 three's then look at the math.
Take your age say 40-10 = 30 add 4 years and you get 34.
Do not write, date or talk to any woman who is less than 34 years old.
Do not pursue a woman who is younger than your X factor. If you do you are
in a risky situation. That doesn't mean 100% you are doomed, but you are
doomed +90% of the time.
If you are risk adverse then you take your age and subtract 7 years and then
calculate your X factor.
In the FSU every woman really wants marriage and a family. If she has a child
she really also wants a father for her child who will treat the child kindly and
set an example as a role model for that child.
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i'd consider a $100,000 yearly income as the bare minimum for a "junior" player, someone with a simple lifestyle and tastes and is young enuff that their income is still gonna grow in the future
keep in mind that marryin a Russkie is a freakin money pit, and EVERY bit of that money is gonna come from you
engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, CLOTHES/SHOES, healthcare (DENTISTRY!)
then after ya teach 'em how to drive, an acura SUV
oh, and that cute little bachelor bungalow, ditch that for a 5 bedroom McMansion with pool and new designer furniture
and then along comes kids
a trust fund for each, moment they're born
new car when they're 16, another new car at 17, after they wreck the first one
new iphones, imacs every christmas, $500/month horse boarding + vet bills
then after high school, a top tier university is $50,000+ yr for tuition/books, per kid
$100,000?
that's a freakin "rounding error"....
if you make below, $100,000 per anum, then you be dreamin, my friend
like yes, I am considering a 70 foot yacht on the med with a helipad while you're havin lunch at McDonald's
yeah, and yur gonna have a russian super model for your yacht, of course you are...
OTOH, entertaining a fantasy, might be the antidote for despair
nobody like havin the SADZ
Postscript
age difference?
hollywood just released a new film " Killers of the Flower Moon" that deals with the subject of may-december romances
I suppose like all other human endeavors, there are successes as well as failures
there is no universal quality of the process of aging
everyone does it differently
however, some men acquire emotional maturity with age along with self-awareness and self-control and that enables them to elevate another's needs above their own
"to each according to their needs - from each according to their ability"
older dewds tend to have more ability than younger ones
if you have a prized rose in your garden, you will do everything you can to protect and care for it, an older man can appreciate the bloom of youth much more than a younger one can who just takes it for granted
sadly, you incels just don't get to experience the inner joy of having a beautiful woman in your life, how it makes your life more livable
life is too short, especially for those who never truely lived
when I look at the sad state that most of humanity finds itself in
I am given to despair
me thinks there is some connection between a more challenging economy and the increasing difficulties younger unmarried people face
I'm a boomer! who grew up in a golden time in Post-War America,
that world's now in the rear view mirror and fading fast
while we're zipping down the highway, gawd knows where...
but...
if the PROBLEM is economic
then so to must be the SOLUTION
and if'n I were a young incel(instead of an old stud put out to pasture), this is what i'd focus on like a lazer
SHOW ME THE FREAKIN' MONEY!!!
and it wouldn't matter HOW I got the money, as long as I GOT it...
(touches finger to nose)
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If one assumes people don't marry because they're in love, then age differences don't matter. The better half says it's also good if there's a young stud next door.
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i'd consider a $100,000 yearly income as the bare minimum for a "junior" player, someone with a simple lifestyle and tastes and is young enuff that their income is still gonna grow in the future
Of course you are right, but I used a lower figure because somebody would make a point
that if you lived in Des Moines and your house is paid off, blah, blah, blah, and had no debt
yada, yada yada. So I lowered the number to avoid that argument but I made it high enough
to be more than triple what our resident pauper rationalizer/philosopher makes per year so
that he couldn't hitch his wagon and his less than Walmart Greeter salary to include himself
in the Des Moines exception.
By eliminating the Des Moines exception I avoided Mr Latch-on including himself as an
exception.
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Walmart/salaries/Greeter?period=yearly
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If one assumes people don't marry because they're in love, then age differences don't
matter. The better half says it's also good if there's a young stud next door.
You have to win the girls heart period, no exception. You do not have a chance if
you are 44 seeking 24 especially if you have mediocre social skills, are average in
many ways and can barely afford traveling to meet her.
By contrast if you are 44 and seek a woman who is 39 you will have a far better chance of
winning her heart if you are attentive and actively pursue her. Wasting time on twenty
somethings is going to delay finding a good woman who wants you to pursue her and
win her heart.
Living on a beach in warm Hawaii might help you get the first meeting/date. You still have
to do the work (which is fun and exciting) of sweeping her off her feet and winning her heart.
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i'd consider a $100,000 yearly income as the bare minimum for a "junior" player, someone
with a simple lifestyle and tastes and is young enuff that their income is still gonna grow
in the future
A man with above average looks, confindence, social skills and who obviously has
potential for more can intrigue an FSUW. They actually might prefer hitching their
wagon to that man, than somebody who they suspect will have many mistresses.
A man is a package of traits, that is the purpose of me reviving this thread.
Whatever your package has in it. Brad Pitt is more handsome, has more money
and is more exciting. However he is not in Dumpsk pursuing Miss Sexualnaya
Mr Forum reader is.
Mr Forum reader needs to take stock in himself, create the best version of himself
and to pursue women who will want him at least as much as he wants her. If Mr
Forum reader is say 44 and he pursues Miss Sexualnaya who is 24 then he better
be handsome, charming and exciting otherwise he is barking up the wrong tree
and delaying finding the love of his life.
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Wife and I are working physically hard (and me mentally hard) in renovating a second house we purchased locally.
And she is working in the very large garden she insists on still having every year.
She now frequently mentions how her back and other areas hurt.
I say to her: "You cannot have such ailments because you are my much younger trophy wife."
She replies: "I think that time and situation has passed."
Perhaps I should have sought an even larger age gap.
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stud next door?
well....
that would be me!
and yes, here's the teenage daughter of my neighbor who used to swim in my pool "au natural"
I'd dry her off with a fluffy towel and gave her her very first strawberry margarita
lovely girl, with "big naturals"
and she'd always wait until after my wife and daughters left to go shopping, before she came over
beautiful girl with delicate white skin, green-eyed blond
just graduated high school
it's a man's life in Krim
there was no such thing as an American Incel in Crimea baby, it would be IMPOSSIBLE!!!
you'd be tapping girl's like this ALL THE TIME in the summer
these young girls were really hot
and it was pretty easy to get them out of their clothes in the summer
and they had "hard bodies" that would blow your mind
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Turbo, are you actually saying there has been no argument because an argument must be a two sided event ? i.e. Your ability to remain unruffled !
During those 15 years I don't ever recall us having an argument. There were a couple of times I got my butt chewed but there was cause and she was right. Of course women are always right. Ask any, they will tell you that is a fact.
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I say to her: "You cannot have such ailments because you are my much younger trophy wife."
She replies: "I think that time and situation has passed."
Perhaps I should have sought an even larger age gap.
Cracking me up!
(http://media1.giphy.com/media/fUYhyT9IjftxrxJXcE/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9527ff81f4srk5wuq6z2zrpygvotp4kttnb8imu4n8b&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
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I had a younger trophy wife....she was the participation trophy in a train wreck marriage.
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Wife and I are working physically hard (and me mentally hard) in renovating a second house we purchased locally.
And she is working in the very large garden she insists on still having every year.
She now frequently mentions how her back and other areas hurt.
I say to her: "You cannot have such ailments because you are my much younger trophy wife."
She replies: "I think that time and situation has passed."
Perhaps I should have sought an even larger age gap.
As a follow up:
Wife is having increasing problem with legs that hurt.
This is a gal that used to walk several miles to and from work, and climb to 4th floor of her condo in Ukraine.
And here in US we walked 3 miles every other day.
We bought second house specifically so she could walk 1 mile with good sidewalks to and from her teaching job at University.
Now she can't walk it without enduring severe pain in her legs.
We have appointment with Doc in early December.
Takes a month or more to get appointments here.
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Just thought I would pop in to say hello.
As you may recall, I endured a blast of criticism on the forum for our large age difference (30 years). Just for reference we have been married for 10 1/2 years. I turned 80 and she turned 50 this year. Larissa has a 30 year old son (living in Israel) and a 14 year old daughter with us here in Redlands, Ca.
I am still working full time as a Director of Engineering (Aerospace firm). While there were a few bumps along the way, of my 3 marriages, this one is by far the best. None of the bumps were due to the traditional reasons often listed as problems with big age differences. Instead they were due to cultural differences.
Larissa's most favorable attribute is her happy personality. I did not realize it until we were married for a while. It's nice to wake up in the morning to a smile and happy face. She also has kept up her appearance and still looks like the eye candy I married.
The lease favorable attribute is the insane jealousy she exhibits. Can't even look side wise at an attractive woman passing by on the sidewalk. :)
Our 14 year old started High School this year and has straight A's. So proud of her.
Hope everyone is doing fine and will drop in occasionally as I find time.
What was the members name that moved to Cherkassy. Anyone know how he is doing?
Doug, Larissa, Lisa and 2 cats
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Doug, good to see you here.
Thanks for posting update and glad to hear that all is OK.
AkMike's gal was from Cherkassy. Think he might have been planning to move there.
He hasn't been around here since 2019.
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Bill's general theory of FSUW age relativity
Each man has what should be considered a package.
1. Looks: How purdy are you?
2. Physique: This includes height, weight, muscles, stanima or the lack thereof.
3. Social skills: How well do you function in a social situation with women?
4. FSU experience: Have you dated one of these creatures before?
5. Language: Can you say more than Da ili nyet? Do you know what ili means?
Can you read any Cyrillic?
6. Living/Lifestyle?
Do you live on a beach in Hawaii? (good) in Nome Alaska (bad) in your
mothers basement (bad) Last wife was eaten by a crocodile (bad) local
cannibals (bad) The oil fields of Norf Dakoty (bad) member of a cult (bad)
7. How much time, money and energy can you spend on this pursuit?
8. Money: If you make more than $100K or less than $100K add or
subract 1 year depending on if you are above or below that number.
Two weeks of vacation per year and/or using credit cards to pay for it
is dividing by zero, living on the moon without a space helmet, getting into
a shootout without a gun or bullets. Stop! Fix your situation then come back
only after you fixed it.
Assign a value to each of these things from one to five and add up your points
then divide by 8. This is your value number.
Take your age, subtract 10 years then subtract your value number. This is your
X factor. Special note: Every value number is less than 4 then you add 1 year to
your X factor.
If you have 4 three's then look at the math.
Take your age say 40-10 = 30 add 4 years and you get 34.
Do not write, date or talk to any woman who is less than 34 years old.
Do not pursue a woman who is younger than your X factor. If you do you are
in a risky situation. That doesn't mean 100% you are doomed, but you are
doomed +90% of the time.
If you are risk adverse then you take your age and subtract 7 years and then
calculate your X factor.
In the FSU every woman really wants marriage and a family. If she has a child
she really also wants a father for her child who will treat the child kindly and
set an example as a role model for that child.
I got way too far into the weeds, so I am simplifying this.
Each man has what should be considered a package.
1. Looks: How purdy are you?
2. Physique: This includes height, weight, muscles, stamina or the lack thereof.
3. Social skills: How well do you function in a social situation with women?
4. FSU experience: Have you dated one or more of these creatures before?
5. Language: Can you say more than Da ili nyet? Do you know what ili means?
Can you read any Cyrillic?
6. Living/Lifestyle?
Do you live on a beach in Hawaii? (good) in Nome Alaska (bad) in your
mothers basement (very bad) Last wife was eaten by a crocodile (bad) local
cannibals (very bad) The oil fields of Norf Dakoty (bad) member of a cult (bad)
7. How much time, money and energy can you spend on this pursuit?
8. Money:* If you make more than $100K (acceptable) or less than $100K (risky)
Two weeks of vacation per year and/or using credit cards to pay for it = In your future
both your kidney's will be sold to pay for your divorce. Dialysis = Your future.
Do not attempt this if you are poor and/or don't have the ability to travel frequently.
* There are exceptions to the money. If you make less than $50K per year, you will have
problems, E.G. Making the trips, paying for all the things that you will need to pay for that
will pop up. Sending wifey home to visit Mamma. Her teeth and can easily be a total mess
and require thousands to repair (or she could be toothless).
You will have to buy family health care which is highly expensive in the US these days. This
can exceed $700 per month.
Take your age subtract 10 years and stick to that unless, you have a great package with
many of the traits above. If you have less of the package go with less than 10 years.
Lastly don't lie to yourself.