Ladies Only - Sex Tourism Poll

[KenC]

Jazzy,  Normally I agree with KenC, but in this case, I agree with you and think he is way off base.  I think you and I have a better perspective of the RW thought process in all of this while KenC is an American male comfortably on American soil.

Part of the advice we give on this board is learning how to show respect for FSU women.  You are an FSUW and I am married to one who, unlike KenC's, hasn't lived in the US for 8 years.  Pike's TR shows neither respect for the FSU woman nor respect for the process of finding one as a life partner.  This is the Russian Woman Discussion forum.  If we don"t to show respect for the topic we are discussing, then what's the point?

Scott,
Do you really think these women deserve the respect you so willingly to give?  I said up thread that I was surprised that Jazzy put herself in the same category as Pike's women.  I know it is easy to make Pike out to be the bad guy here and maybe he is a bad guy, but thwe facts remain that these women voluntarily offered themselves up to Pike in one form or another.  I try not to force my moral judgements on others but I also don't like other people's moral judgements forced on me either.  I think these women went into this with their eyes wides opened and their legs quickly followed.  I sure am not ready to fall on a stake to perserve their innocence in all of this.  There are no victims in Pike's T/R only willing participants.  If you don't think much of Pike, then you shouldn't put these women up on a pedestal either.  Living in America or the fact that my wife has lived here for 8 years has nothing to do with our morality.
KenC

[KenC]

Jazzy,
Just because you say it is so, does not make it necessarily true.  Maybe it is true in your mind, but you have to be able to communicate your thoughts in a logical and valid manner in order to convince people with a different point of view.  It is not insulting to have your opinion challenged and you shouldn't take it that way.  We have a different opinion on this and I have logically and factually supported my opinion.  You make baseless (IMO) claims that Pike abused these women and used sexual violence on them.  I didn't read any of that in his report.  I have asked you to show me where your claims are substantiated.  You can only come back with that they were abused and sexual violence was perpetrated on them in your mind.  That is just restating your opinion but is sadly shy of any factual back up.  Again, just because you say it is so, doesn't make it true.
KenC

[batman]

Sorry batman..are we supposed to vote based on your definition, or based on the Wikipedia one?

Hi Lily,

I guess if we can agree to a definition it is best. That was the best one I could find. Maybe there is a better one. I think it's important to get womens viewpoint on this because it is the women who are being treated that way.

I don't consider your holiday with your man sex tourism even slightly Maybe we need to vote for the definition of sex tourism first? Or find a better definition. I will add to the poll for people to get others definitions and also for women to comment on Pike's trip report.

[Lily]

Batman, I think the Wikipedia provides a correct definition.

Moreover, Google brought me some more links on the sex tourism and what is understood by this. The definitions are similar and are in compliance with the former.

Therefore, I do not see a need to vote on any other definition of sex tourism. There is enough authority to have done it already.

[batman]

KenC,

This topic is about getting the women perspective of this report. I have modified topic to get their view of the trip report.

I didn't feel the trip report shows any respect to women and I know women like to be treated with respect the same as men.

That's all I'm trying to point out. I understand your views on casual sex. I don't agree and no number of trips to FSU will change that. I am not trying to force my morals on you to accept. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was. I was simply trying to point out that as a community of people joined in the goal of finding an FSU wife then we need to define some guildelines of decent behavior.

What better way than to get the perspective of a FSU women.

[Mir]

Lilly

Well if we take the ideas of moral pundits from this forum then:

A. If you and the man clearly knew that the sex on the holiday is just for fun and no long term commitment is required then you are not a sex tourist.

B. If you gave any indication that a long term commitment is possible to to entice that man to sleep with you then you are a sex tourist, and in fact can be accused of using sexual violence by some

[wxman]

I think everyone has a slightly different definition of what a sex tourist is. No matter what the definition, I think most people on this forum find sex tourists as repugnant and insulting to women. I haven't read Pike's TR so no comment on him. I tend to stay away from reading TR as they seem to be rah rah and atta boy discussions.

[Lily]

Lilly

Well if we take the ideas of moral pundits from this forum then:

A. If you and the man clearly knew that the sex on the holiday is just for fun and no long term commitment is required then you are not a sex tourist.

B. If you gave any indication that a long term commitment is possible to to entice that man to sleep with you then you are a sex tourist, and in fact can be accused of using sexual violence by some

Concerning your A, it appears to me that the classical examples of sex tourists mentioned in Wikipedia do clearly know that their sex voyages to the poorer countries are only for fun, and probably not for a longterm commitment.

Concerning your B, it seems to imply that the main purpose is getting sex, and for the sake of this a person makes some indications that a long term commitment is possible...Therefore, the purpose is still the most significant factor.

 However, I don't see any violence here, at least so far. We talk about the adults here.

[Mir]

Lily

Correct 

[Nat]

Ops, I didn't manage to read all these 3 pages , so I'm just answering the initial post:

If you have another definition you would like to suggest please make a post

He is writing a porno novel.

[Admin]

Ops, I didn't manage to read all these 3 pages , so I'm just answering the initial post:

He is writing a porno novel.

Sorry, but I have to say that stating his TR is anything like "a porno novel" is just wildly exaggerated. I am not defending what was written - BUT - have you ever read "a porno novel"? If so, please tell me how the TR is even remotely similar. If not, then how can you make that claim?

 :noidea:

- Dan

[Daveman]

... I was simply trying to point out that as a community of people joined in the goal of finding an FSU wife then we need to define some guildelines of decent behavior.

What better way than to get the perspective of a FSU women.

I had to laugh when I read this.  It really cracked me up. Not because it's absurd, or humorous, but experiencing a situational deja vu.  You have no idea what snake pit you could be crawling into -  with a secret trap door leading directly to the depths of hell. 

[Mir]

I had to laugh when I read this.  It really cracked me up. Not because it's absurd, or humorous, but experiencing a situational deja vu.  You have no idea what snake pit you could be crawling into -  with a secret trap door leading directly to the depths of hell. 

Trying to get on his ignore list eh? hehehe

[Nat]

Sorry, but I have to say that stating his TR is anything like "a porno novel" is just wildly exaggerated. I am not defending what was written - BUT - have you ever read "a porno novel"?

Yes

If so, please tell me how the TR is even remotely similar. If not, then how can you make that claim?

 :noidea:

- Dan

You see, when I started read it (I mean, Pike's TR), I just understood, that it's not my type of reading. So when that TR was placed in "without reports" section I gave up reading it. But when I was reading "Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports", there were some extracts, which were written in a classical porno-novel style. All this drunk school girls and so on I mean. So I'm not claiming, as you put it, but I'm answering the part of the initial question: I think certain parts of this "TR" are quite similar to porno novel.

Calm down, Dan, I can understand how difficult it is to solve such a situation. I was an admin of a forum for several years and it's very difficult to make everybody feel comfortable at the same time... You're really doing a huge job! But this time I think it's too much fuss of nothing. Everybody have their right to say their point of view: me, Kuna, Pike, of course, and everybody else. When people are saying their opinion, you can always understand the real state of culture among certain group of people. I told it before: I think it's good that it's possible to read all kinds of reports, because if everything will be seen through pink glasses of moderation, people can get illusions, which is not good. But if there is a democracy - it should be everywhere.

PS: I really don't like argues, so I won't post again in this topic. Reading it can be informative, but participating in it...

[Lily]

I read Pike's TR with attention. Here's how I understand it.
 
Pike's purpose is shown in quote, "This is not a wife hunting trip.  I am here on business for 6 weeks.' To me it says that he did not has wife hunting his primary goal, he combined business and private life. If I'd be sent to the company headquarters for some weeks, I will try to meet some prospects by occasion, too.

Quote,"If I find the right woman, I am open to getting married.  She might be here in FSU, across the street from my house in USA, ...or where ever.'
In my own profile I write that I am not in hurry for relationships but it will happen when a right man presents himself. Essentially I share this attitude of Pike.

'I haven't promised or mislead these women at all.  All women are on dating sites, not at marriage agencies.  They all check off blocks as to future goals including long term relationships, short term, travel, erotic chats, etc' - that illustrates. We have one deceiver here, however,- 'Hottie Maria got a free all expense paid trip to another city, including free sex, while she tested her options and sorted out her personal life.' (Reply #28).

Again, sex was not his primary purpose. To me, he behaves like a free and eligible guy meeting and choosing among women. I did not notice any obscene details in his descriptions. 'A nipple play' does not look like one, neither does a scene where he barely mentions a fact that a teenage girl pressed her breast to his body. Pike is rather tactful when it comes to intimate subjects.
 
Some women have had sex with him and some have not. It's their free choice.

By the way, the fact that he showed them his house would look rather as a family oriented jesture to me, as it would be the house where he is supposed to live with his wife, if he gets one.

Pike goes into some details describing appearance of women. He points out both attractive, even beatiful things but he also shares with reader the less attractive traits. Probably his word 'porky, starting to pork up' looks no good. Zhenna, for instance, is portrayed well. And yes, he compared women to each other (Reply #9). Obviously Pike looks for a beatiful woman for himself, no one can blame him for this.

He is aimed, however, to concentrate on the woman that he'd like the best. In Reply #19 he tells about decision he has to make. He is looking and choosing, and he is very much entitled to this. After a few dates his judgement is that no one comes very close to the standards set by his long term girlfriend.(Reply #34) This is at leact my understanding of Pike's intention. I did not find proofs of the opposite.

At the same time, his opinion on the Outdoor Woman changed despite her unattractiveness when he finally tells 'A quite intelligent and interesting woman with nice body'. Again, Pike looks deeper than just skin, and does her justice that she deserves.

Pike does not like, however, that a woman may also practive VM: 'it’s OK for me to date multiple women . . . but now this woman is going to be dating another English speaking man while I am in town . . . it just ain’t right!!!!'  (Reply #32)Well done Maryanne!

Further on, Pike tells that a few women show a really stupid behavior and illustrates,for instance, '..and then announces that it was stupid for me to build such a large house for just one person,...and repeated it was a stupid thing to do..she of course said it was in wrong location by being in the woods 'with wild animals.'  But more than that, she even  knew  I had built it in the wrong state' ( on: May 20, 2007, 04:13:10 PM). 'She said, you seem to have so many health problems like an old man', IMHO very unappropriate remark on her part. There are also some other examples of the women showing not quite attractive behavior and lack of communication skills.

On the other hand, Pike does justice to the woman who negotiated in the shop when they got a small problem.

Well, IMHO he calls things by their names.

Pike strives to preserve privacy, 'I am not disclosing the city so as not to draw undue attention to any one woman I might describe.' (on: May 20, 2007, 04:13:10 PM) Also, 'I had told all the ladies that we should refrain from any talk about old, current, and future imagined  boyfriends (girlfriends)' (Reply #20). That's pretty fair play to me if no commitments.

Based on the above, I can say that Pike's report is an interesting reading showing his very personal observations and perceptions.

Hope I have supported my conclusions with enough proof. Sorry for a long post, but if I am asked to deliver my opinion, I really need my findings to be substantiated by quotes.

[batman]

I had to laugh when I read this.  It really cracked me up. Not because it's absurd, or humorous, but experiencing a situational deja vu.  You have no idea what snake pit you could be crawling into -  with a secret trap door leading directly to the depths of hell. 

Daveman,

I'm glad you found it entertaining. I don't really understand your point of view on this. I have not seen from your posts that you support sex tourism or large amounts of casual sex when visiting FSU. That what I understand you are searching for a long term partner/wife in the FSU.

Unless your comments are comming from the life view of "people can do whatever the hell they want". Thats a straight path to the depths of living hell if I ever saw one.

My intentions are to get the womens perspective of this trip report. That's all.

Not sure what your intentions are though? Should I take those horns in your avatar seriously?

[Admin]

Daveman,

I'm glad you found it entertaining. I don't really understand your point of view on this. I have not seen from your posts that you support sex tourism or large amounts of casual sex when visiting FSU. That what I understand you are searching for a long term partner/wife in the FSU.

Unless your comments are comming from the life view of "people can do whatever the hell they want". Thats a straight path to the depths of living hell if I ever saw one.

My intentions are to get the womens perspective of this trip report. That's all.

Not sure what your intentions are though? Should I take those horns in your avatar seriously?

batman,

Dave will have to address your question for me to be sure, but it *may* be that he was referencing a little project we have had underway here for a while. In fact, we could use some energetic assistance, so if you are inclined - just let us know. Here is a link to the part of the board where it was described/discussed -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=39.0

Like I said - if you have an interest in participating, just let us know.

- Dan

[Kvinna]

Some women have had sex with him and some have not. It's their free choice.

great point!
do you think a real sex-tourist wouldn't leave choice for women and more like rape them?

[KenC]

Lily,
WOW!  Thank you for posting such an honest and balanced opinion.  I saw it very similar to you.  Hopefully, Kuna and Scott will not attack you as a perverted morally bankrupt person as they have me.
KenC

[Admin]

great point!
do you think a real sex-tourist wouldn't leave choice for women and more like rape them?

Of course rape is reprehensible - and criminal - BUT - the question is: Can a man be a sex tourist if the women are willing (sometimes ANXIOUS) participants ?

I am not supposing the answer - merely posing the question.

- Dan

[Kvinna]

Of course rape is reprehensible - and criminal - BUT - the question is: Can a man be a sex tourist if the women are willing (sometimes ANXIOUS) participants ?

I am not supposing the answer - merely posing the question.

- Dan

yes, he can, and in Pike's case he is

[WmGO]

My intentions are to get the womens perspective of this trip report. That's all.

Well you just got one from Lily - a Russian lady who has proven that her character and intelligence are beyond reproach.

And BTW, you completely misread Daveman.

[Daveman]

Daveman,

I'm glad you found it entertaining. I don't really understand your point of view on this. I have not seen from your posts that you support sex tourism or large amounts of casual sex when visiting FSU. That what I understand you are searching for a long term partner/wife in the FSU.

Unless your comments are comming from the life view of "people can do whatever the hell they want". Thats a straight path to the depths of living hell if I ever saw one.

My intentions are to get the womens perspective of this trip report. That's all.

Not sure what your intentions are though? Should I take those horns in your avatar seriously?

No offense meant to you BM,  It's a rather long story and Dan touched on it... the short version is simply, I remember having those exact same very innocuous thoughts you expressed in your post, and the the ensuing fallout from can of worms being blasted open was amazingly unbelievable.  In one case I was actually accused of "ruining the forum".  That is why it cracked me up.. sometimes the best of intentions lead to the strangest situations. 

Dave

[Kvinna]

Well you just got one from Lily - a Russian lady who has proven that her character and intelligence are beyond reproach.

Oh yes, some sophisticated mind can apologize everything beyond reproach for the benefit
let's apologize mr. Scott Huss right now

[Admin]

Oh yes, some sophisticated mind can apologize everything beyond reproach for the benefit
let's apologize mr. Scott Huss right now

That one lost me completely. Who is "Scott Huss" and how is this relevant?

- Dan